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American Morning
No Rulings Issued Yet on San Francisco's Same-Sex Marriages
Aired February 18, 2004 - 07:11 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: With no court rulings to stop it, the rush of same-sex marriages in San Francisco is now going forward. One case against the issuance of licenses for same-sex marriages continued until Friday of this week, another will wait for a hearing in late March. In one case, the judge denied a temporary injunction, partly because a punctuation mistake changed a document's meaning.
More than 2,600 same-sex couples have been married since last Thursday, and the mayor says the city will keep issuing licenses until it is ordered to stop.
Our senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, back with us here on AMERICAN MORNING.
Jeffrey -- good morning to you. Nice to see you.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning.
HEMMER: A punctuation mark? How common is that to say take it back?
TOOBIN: It's unusual. What's interesting is that the gay marriage movement is getting a sympathetic hearing from San Francisco judges. They have yet to stop it. They have ordered a hearing in late March, but while -- between now and late March, the marriages go forward. There have been 2,600 so far, and, you know, the numbers are continuing every day.
HEMMER: As I just mentioned, one of these judges said come on back in late March -- March 29. Is that a statement in itself that he's going to put it off five weeks?
TOOBIN: Well, it is a statement that these judges are sympathetic. However, I do think that the gay marriage opponents have some pretty strong arguments. There is a state law -- Proposition 22 -- that says marriage is between a man and a woman in California, period. It's very hard for me to see how San Francisco can get around that merely by saying we think it's unconstitutional. Usually it's courts that declare laws unconstitutional, not cities.
HEMMER: And if a court agreed with what you said, you would need to go to the state supreme court in order to change it, right.
TOOBIN: This is almost certainly heading to the California Supreme Court as it's heading to state supreme courts around the country. An important contrast to draw here: Massachusetts, it's the Supreme Court of Massachusetts that has ordered gay marriage to go forward. There is no doubt there will be gay marriage in Massachusetts come May. The San Francisco situation is a much dicer situation for gay marriage supporters.
HEMMER: The governor, too, Arnold Schwarzenegger, waited on this, the first statement that I've seen anyway since it broke out last Thursday. On the screen for our viewers, it says in part: "Californians spoke on the issue of same-sex marriage when they overwhelmingly approved California's law that defines marriage as being between a man and a woman. I support that law and encourage San Francisco officials to obey that law. The courts should act quickly to resolve this matter."
The question is: How do you define "quick?"
TOOBIN: Well, I think it's likely -- the only entity that can overturn that law is the California Supreme Court. It's very hard to imagine how San Francisco can overturn it on its own. That's why I think they're on pretty shaky legal ground, but this is going to be a state-by-state operation. Vermont has its civil union law. Massachusetts will have full-fledged gay marriage, at least for a while. California is moving in a different direction, but probably not as fast.
HEMMER: All right, thank you, Jeff. Talk to you later on Martha Stewart. We'll get back to that.
TOOBIN: Yes, indeed, back to court.
HEMMER: OK.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
Marriages>
Aired February 18, 2004 - 07:11 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: With no court rulings to stop it, the rush of same-sex marriages in San Francisco is now going forward. One case against the issuance of licenses for same-sex marriages continued until Friday of this week, another will wait for a hearing in late March. In one case, the judge denied a temporary injunction, partly because a punctuation mistake changed a document's meaning.
More than 2,600 same-sex couples have been married since last Thursday, and the mayor says the city will keep issuing licenses until it is ordered to stop.
Our senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, back with us here on AMERICAN MORNING.
Jeffrey -- good morning to you. Nice to see you.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning.
HEMMER: A punctuation mark? How common is that to say take it back?
TOOBIN: It's unusual. What's interesting is that the gay marriage movement is getting a sympathetic hearing from San Francisco judges. They have yet to stop it. They have ordered a hearing in late March, but while -- between now and late March, the marriages go forward. There have been 2,600 so far, and, you know, the numbers are continuing every day.
HEMMER: As I just mentioned, one of these judges said come on back in late March -- March 29. Is that a statement in itself that he's going to put it off five weeks?
TOOBIN: Well, it is a statement that these judges are sympathetic. However, I do think that the gay marriage opponents have some pretty strong arguments. There is a state law -- Proposition 22 -- that says marriage is between a man and a woman in California, period. It's very hard for me to see how San Francisco can get around that merely by saying we think it's unconstitutional. Usually it's courts that declare laws unconstitutional, not cities.
HEMMER: And if a court agreed with what you said, you would need to go to the state supreme court in order to change it, right.
TOOBIN: This is almost certainly heading to the California Supreme Court as it's heading to state supreme courts around the country. An important contrast to draw here: Massachusetts, it's the Supreme Court of Massachusetts that has ordered gay marriage to go forward. There is no doubt there will be gay marriage in Massachusetts come May. The San Francisco situation is a much dicer situation for gay marriage supporters.
HEMMER: The governor, too, Arnold Schwarzenegger, waited on this, the first statement that I've seen anyway since it broke out last Thursday. On the screen for our viewers, it says in part: "Californians spoke on the issue of same-sex marriage when they overwhelmingly approved California's law that defines marriage as being between a man and a woman. I support that law and encourage San Francisco officials to obey that law. The courts should act quickly to resolve this matter."
The question is: How do you define "quick?"
TOOBIN: Well, I think it's likely -- the only entity that can overturn that law is the California Supreme Court. It's very hard to imagine how San Francisco can overturn it on its own. That's why I think they're on pretty shaky legal ground, but this is going to be a state-by-state operation. Vermont has its civil union law. Massachusetts will have full-fledged gay marriage, at least for a while. California is moving in a different direction, but probably not as fast.
HEMMER: All right, thank you, Jeff. Talk to you later on Martha Stewart. We'll get back to that.
TOOBIN: Yes, indeed, back to court.
HEMMER: OK.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
Marriages>
