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American Morning

Martha Stewart Trial

Aired February 20, 2004 - 07:44   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The prosecution in the Martha Stewart trial may rest its case today. Perhaps the most damaging testimony yet against Stewart came yesterday from one of her closest friends, Marianna Pasternak.
CNN senior legal analyst Jeff Toobin was in court when she took the stand, and, as Jeff says, things got ugly. Good to see you.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Ugly.

O'BRIEN: Wow! So, here's a good friend. She was on vacation with Martha Stewart. She was on the plane when it refueled.

TOOBIN: The famous vacation.

O'BRIEN: And they stopped to refuel, Martha Stewart makes the phone call. What was her testimony? And just how bad was it?

TOOBIN: Well, what happened was they were on this private plane that stopped in San Antonio on the way to Mexico, where they were going to spend a few days before they went on to Panama.

The key testimony takes place in Mexico a couple of days after they arrived. They're sitting on their veranda overlooking the Pacific, and Martha says -- Marianna says to Martha, what's Sam doing? Because Sam Waksal, the CEO of ImClone, is also a friend of both of them. She said, what's Sam doing? She said, oh, you know, Sam's disappeared again. Sam was having trouble walking at a party I had. She said, you know, Sam sold or tried to sell all of his ImClone stock. His daughter tried to sell or sold all of the ImClone stock. And it went down, and I got rid of all of my stock.

That's so important because she has testified to authorities -- Martha Stewart has -- that the reason she sold her stock was not because the stock was going down or she got any sort of tip about Waksal selling, but because she had this pre-existing agreement to sell at 60.

O'BRIEN: Perhaps the most damning line, though, is this one: She says -- Pasternak says that Martha Stewart said to her -- quote -- "Isn't it nice to have a broker who will tell you those things?"

TOOBIN: That was in a separate conversation later in the trip. When she said that, the courtroom just sort of stopped. I mean, you could see everyone just recognize the significance of that so much, because...

O'BRIEN: Is that the smoking gun? Is that the linchpin?

TOOBIN: Well, the defense will argue that since it was a separate conversation, they can't be sure what these things are. But it's hard to think of what other things she could be talking about.

O'BRIEN: What was Marianna Pasternak's demeanor when she was on? I mean, this woman is a very close friend. It must have hurt her to be having this testimony.

TOOBIN: She said she and Martha Stewart speak basically every day. They see each other about once a week. I mean, this is obviously a very close friend. She's a very elegant woman, very refined. She has kind of a Middle European accent. She and Martha Stewart did not -- their eyes did not meet that I could tell. And she was calm. She was straightforward. And, you know, I think she was obviously not pleased to be there, but it was devastating evidence.

O'BRIEN: An ink expert was also on the stand, and this gets back to the issue of that sell order at $60.

TOOBIN: Right. Peter Bacanovic came up with this document that showed a list of stocks that Martha Stewart sold, and by one of them, by ImClone it says "at 60." That is she was going to sell it at 60. What this ink expert testified was that all of the markings on this page were with one pen, but "at 60" was with another pen, suggesting that Bacanovic altered the document after the fact to put on "at 60" to try to back up his story that there was an agreement to sell at 60. It was very powerful evidence again for the prosecution.

O'BRIEN: Martha on the stand, yes, or no?

TOOBIN: I think no. That's my latest guess. I think there are too many things to explain.

O'BRIEN: Analysis. Not guess, Jeff.

TOOBIN: Sorry. Well, you know, let's say the truth on what it is. I think there is too much to explain. Her defense is in. She's going to say, look, maybe she was told that Waksal was selling, but she sold because she had this pre-existing agreement. I think no testimony. So, that means it could go to the jury next week.

O'BRIEN: Jeff Toobin, as always, thanks.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.






Aired February 20, 2004 - 07:44   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The prosecution in the Martha Stewart trial may rest its case today. Perhaps the most damaging testimony yet against Stewart came yesterday from one of her closest friends, Marianna Pasternak.
CNN senior legal analyst Jeff Toobin was in court when she took the stand, and, as Jeff says, things got ugly. Good to see you.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Ugly.

O'BRIEN: Wow! So, here's a good friend. She was on vacation with Martha Stewart. She was on the plane when it refueled.

TOOBIN: The famous vacation.

O'BRIEN: And they stopped to refuel, Martha Stewart makes the phone call. What was her testimony? And just how bad was it?

TOOBIN: Well, what happened was they were on this private plane that stopped in San Antonio on the way to Mexico, where they were going to spend a few days before they went on to Panama.

The key testimony takes place in Mexico a couple of days after they arrived. They're sitting on their veranda overlooking the Pacific, and Martha says -- Marianna says to Martha, what's Sam doing? Because Sam Waksal, the CEO of ImClone, is also a friend of both of them. She said, what's Sam doing? She said, oh, you know, Sam's disappeared again. Sam was having trouble walking at a party I had. She said, you know, Sam sold or tried to sell all of his ImClone stock. His daughter tried to sell or sold all of the ImClone stock. And it went down, and I got rid of all of my stock.

That's so important because she has testified to authorities -- Martha Stewart has -- that the reason she sold her stock was not because the stock was going down or she got any sort of tip about Waksal selling, but because she had this pre-existing agreement to sell at 60.

O'BRIEN: Perhaps the most damning line, though, is this one: She says -- Pasternak says that Martha Stewart said to her -- quote -- "Isn't it nice to have a broker who will tell you those things?"

TOOBIN: That was in a separate conversation later in the trip. When she said that, the courtroom just sort of stopped. I mean, you could see everyone just recognize the significance of that so much, because...

O'BRIEN: Is that the smoking gun? Is that the linchpin?

TOOBIN: Well, the defense will argue that since it was a separate conversation, they can't be sure what these things are. But it's hard to think of what other things she could be talking about.

O'BRIEN: What was Marianna Pasternak's demeanor when she was on? I mean, this woman is a very close friend. It must have hurt her to be having this testimony.

TOOBIN: She said she and Martha Stewart speak basically every day. They see each other about once a week. I mean, this is obviously a very close friend. She's a very elegant woman, very refined. She has kind of a Middle European accent. She and Martha Stewart did not -- their eyes did not meet that I could tell. And she was calm. She was straightforward. And, you know, I think she was obviously not pleased to be there, but it was devastating evidence.

O'BRIEN: An ink expert was also on the stand, and this gets back to the issue of that sell order at $60.

TOOBIN: Right. Peter Bacanovic came up with this document that showed a list of stocks that Martha Stewart sold, and by one of them, by ImClone it says "at 60." That is she was going to sell it at 60. What this ink expert testified was that all of the markings on this page were with one pen, but "at 60" was with another pen, suggesting that Bacanovic altered the document after the fact to put on "at 60" to try to back up his story that there was an agreement to sell at 60. It was very powerful evidence again for the prosecution.

O'BRIEN: Martha on the stand, yes, or no?

TOOBIN: I think no. That's my latest guess. I think there are too many things to explain.

O'BRIEN: Analysis. Not guess, Jeff.

TOOBIN: Sorry. Well, you know, let's say the truth on what it is. I think there is too much to explain. Her defense is in. She's going to say, look, maybe she was told that Waksal was selling, but she sold because she had this pre-existing agreement. I think no testimony. So, that means it could go to the jury next week.

O'BRIEN: Jeff Toobin, as always, thanks.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.