Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Interview With Ahmed Rashid
Aired February 23, 2004 - 08:07 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the head of the CIA reportedly made an unannounced visit earlier this month to Pakistan. The Associated Press quotes a senior government official as saying that George Tenet went there to share information about Osama bin Laden and to discuss ways to combat nuclear proliferation.
It has long been believed that bin Laden is hiding in the region along Pakistan's border with Afghanistan.
Pakistani journalist Ahmed Rashid is an expert on that desolate region and he joins us now.
Thanks for being with us.
AHMED RASHID, PAKISTANI JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR: Thank you.
COOPER: Let's talk -- they say there is going to be an offensive now, both Pakistan troops and perhaps even U.S. special forces. Some are even saying the U.S. special forces are already operating in these regions.
Is this offensive for real?
RASHID: I think it's very much for real. Just before Tenet arrived in Islamabad, General Barno, the U.S. commander in Afghanistan, also met with Musharraf. I think the U.S. now is really pushing Pakistan very hard to support this offensive and to find Osama. The U.S. has a lot of leverage right now because the U.S. has done Pakistan a big favor on this nuclear issue and I think what we are seeing on the Pakistani side, at least, for the first time is a lot of seriousness.
COOPER: Seriousness, I mean what has changed? Why the seriousness? Is it because of the difficulties Musharraf is facing himself? I mean there have been two assassination attempts against him. Why are they now willing to go into these areas?
RASHID: Well, exactly. I mean I think there has been a whole, you know, buildup. I mean two assassination attempts in which al Qaeda and some of these militant Pakistani groups are involved; the fear that there may be militants inside the military itself who perhaps are tipping off al Qaeda; and the whole crackdown on extremism, the fact that, you know, Pakistan is making up with India right now and has halted extremism -- extremists crossing into the border in Kashmir.
So I think this is part of a shift. It may be too early to call it a strategic shift, but certainly a tactical shift.
COOPER: How is the story of Pakistan and nuclear weapons playing in Pakistan? Because Washington really has not been very vocally critical of General Musharraf.
RASHID: Well, in that sense, it's playing quite badly, because I think anti-Americanism has increased. People are saying that the Americans have basically given the military a whitewash. And, you know, clearly the scientists were not involved themselves. Clearly there were other people involved, people in the military were involved, and the Americans seem to have pardoned Musharraf, you know? Musharraf pardoned Abdul Qadeer Khan, the leading scientist.
COOPER: But pardoned him because they feel they can get other things down the road. I mean by pardoning him on this, I guess, he is now able to go into these northwestern regions.
RASHID: Well, exactly. I mean I think, you know, there's clearly a deal in which Pakistan will help the U.S. wrap up this network of supplies and black marketeers who are dealing with nuclear technology. And, of course, you know, there's other leverage now on Osama bin Laden that the U.S. can apply.
So I think it's, I think that was the aim.
COOPER: The other big development in Afghanistan is these elections, which are -- the presidential elections are supposed to occur in June. Is that correct?
RASHID: That is -- according to the Bonn agreement of 2001, the elections are supposed to be in June.
COOPER: But you argue that that is actually not a good idea, that they should actually be postponed. And there are many actually even in the U.N. who agree with you.
RASHID: Well, I think a lot of people are now wanting a postponement. And they are mostly giving the reasons of worsening security, I mean the fact that the Taliban and al Qaeda attacks in southern and eastern Afghanistan are being stepped up and there is a lot of law and order problems in the north.
COOPER: But you say good things are happening in Afghanistan and that's why these elections should be postponed.
What do you mean?
RASHID: Yes, exactly. I mean what I'm, the kind of spin I'm saying is that a lot of money is being spent now. There are a lot of programs on the ground which are doing nation building very effectively. But they have just started and they need about a year to reach some kind of fruition.
If you can postpone it for a year, you will give President Hamid Karzai and all the candidates there something really concrete to fight an election on. COOPER: All right, it's a fascinating subject.
Ahmed Rashid, appreciate you joining us.
Thanks.
RASHID: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired February 23, 2004 - 08:07 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the head of the CIA reportedly made an unannounced visit earlier this month to Pakistan. The Associated Press quotes a senior government official as saying that George Tenet went there to share information about Osama bin Laden and to discuss ways to combat nuclear proliferation.
It has long been believed that bin Laden is hiding in the region along Pakistan's border with Afghanistan.
Pakistani journalist Ahmed Rashid is an expert on that desolate region and he joins us now.
Thanks for being with us.
AHMED RASHID, PAKISTANI JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR: Thank you.
COOPER: Let's talk -- they say there is going to be an offensive now, both Pakistan troops and perhaps even U.S. special forces. Some are even saying the U.S. special forces are already operating in these regions.
Is this offensive for real?
RASHID: I think it's very much for real. Just before Tenet arrived in Islamabad, General Barno, the U.S. commander in Afghanistan, also met with Musharraf. I think the U.S. now is really pushing Pakistan very hard to support this offensive and to find Osama. The U.S. has a lot of leverage right now because the U.S. has done Pakistan a big favor on this nuclear issue and I think what we are seeing on the Pakistani side, at least, for the first time is a lot of seriousness.
COOPER: Seriousness, I mean what has changed? Why the seriousness? Is it because of the difficulties Musharraf is facing himself? I mean there have been two assassination attempts against him. Why are they now willing to go into these areas?
RASHID: Well, exactly. I mean I think there has been a whole, you know, buildup. I mean two assassination attempts in which al Qaeda and some of these militant Pakistani groups are involved; the fear that there may be militants inside the military itself who perhaps are tipping off al Qaeda; and the whole crackdown on extremism, the fact that, you know, Pakistan is making up with India right now and has halted extremism -- extremists crossing into the border in Kashmir.
So I think this is part of a shift. It may be too early to call it a strategic shift, but certainly a tactical shift.
COOPER: How is the story of Pakistan and nuclear weapons playing in Pakistan? Because Washington really has not been very vocally critical of General Musharraf.
RASHID: Well, in that sense, it's playing quite badly, because I think anti-Americanism has increased. People are saying that the Americans have basically given the military a whitewash. And, you know, clearly the scientists were not involved themselves. Clearly there were other people involved, people in the military were involved, and the Americans seem to have pardoned Musharraf, you know? Musharraf pardoned Abdul Qadeer Khan, the leading scientist.
COOPER: But pardoned him because they feel they can get other things down the road. I mean by pardoning him on this, I guess, he is now able to go into these northwestern regions.
RASHID: Well, exactly. I mean I think, you know, there's clearly a deal in which Pakistan will help the U.S. wrap up this network of supplies and black marketeers who are dealing with nuclear technology. And, of course, you know, there's other leverage now on Osama bin Laden that the U.S. can apply.
So I think it's, I think that was the aim.
COOPER: The other big development in Afghanistan is these elections, which are -- the presidential elections are supposed to occur in June. Is that correct?
RASHID: That is -- according to the Bonn agreement of 2001, the elections are supposed to be in June.
COOPER: But you argue that that is actually not a good idea, that they should actually be postponed. And there are many actually even in the U.N. who agree with you.
RASHID: Well, I think a lot of people are now wanting a postponement. And they are mostly giving the reasons of worsening security, I mean the fact that the Taliban and al Qaeda attacks in southern and eastern Afghanistan are being stepped up and there is a lot of law and order problems in the north.
COOPER: But you say good things are happening in Afghanistan and that's why these elections should be postponed.
What do you mean?
RASHID: Yes, exactly. I mean what I'm, the kind of spin I'm saying is that a lot of money is being spent now. There are a lot of programs on the ground which are doing nation building very effectively. But they have just started and they need about a year to reach some kind of fruition.
If you can postpone it for a year, you will give President Hamid Karzai and all the candidates there something really concrete to fight an election on. COOPER: All right, it's a fascinating subject.
Ahmed Rashid, appreciate you joining us.
Thanks.
RASHID: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
