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American Morning
Martha Stewart Case
Aired February 25, 2004 - 07:19 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Lawyers for Martha Stewart expected to begin and end their case today. They plan to call possibly two witnesses. We know one for certain, and Stewart not among them.
Our senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, in the courtroom yesterday, back with us today.
Good morning.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: A bit of drama in this decision, would you not say?
TOOBIN: Well, I mean, you know, we've been talking about this for so long. Whenever you have a celebrity on trial, you always want to know whether the celebrity is going to tell his or her story to the jury.
I think it's the right decision for the lawyers, absolutely.
HEMMER: You do? The right decision.
TOOBIN: Absolutely. I think there are so many questions that she would have to answer and possibly get herself tied up in new controversies. They have their defense in front of the jury. It's a reasonable doubt defense, where they have challenged the prosecution's case on its weak points. I think win or lose, they've made the right decision in keeping her off the stand.
HEMMER: Back up just a bit here. As a general rule of thumb, as a defense attorney, do you want your client on the stand, or do you want to keep your client off the stand at all costs?
TOOBIN: By and large, you want to keep the client off the stand. Most defendants don't testify. Obviously, when you have a celebrity, there is some sense that a jury expects a professional communicator to communicate with them. But this jury seems unusually attentive to the judge's instructions. The judge will instruct them not to hold the defendant's silence against her. I think it's the right choice.
HEMMER: What was your sense of how this business manager testified yesterday on behalf of Martha, how she redirected possibly the prosecution's case?
TOOBIN: I thought Michael Schachter, the prosecutor, gave one of the best cross-examinations I have seen. It was stunning. What happened was -- remember, the day before Heidi DeLuca had testified about a conversation with Peter Bacanovic that they were going to sell the stock for $60 a share, the ImClone stock that is at the center of this case, Michael Schachter used documents to undermine that conversation, to prove -- certainly to me -- that, in fact, the conversation she was talking about was not in November, as she said, but was, in fact, in October about an entirely different set of ImClone stock. It was a masterful job.
There was a Perry Mason moment where he showed that a document that was used in the defense case was, in fact, not the real document that had its date on it. It really was stunning and riveting in the courtroom.
HEMMER: You have used more superlatives in this case...
TOOBIN: You know, I'm...
HEMMER: ... for a couple of weeks running.
TOOBIN: You know, I'm sorry about that.
HEMMER: Don't be sorry.
TOOBIN: I really feel like I'm (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the case, like, you know, I'm manufacturing -- this is really -- speaking of superlatives -- the second most interesting trial I have ever watched.
HEMMER: Is that so? What was No. 1?
TOOBIN: O.J. Simpson. I mean, that in a separate category. But this trial has been, really unexpectedly to me, superb lawyering, unexpected developments, interesting witnesses, and an outcome that I wouldn't hesitate to predict on or off-camera.
HEMMER: Do you think the jury gets the case at the end of the week or not?
TOOBIN: I think it will probably slip over till next week. I think there are enough outstanding issues that -- early next week, where I will not predict that either.
HEMMER: We know how to push your buttons now, don't we?
TOOBIN: Absolutely. Just put Martha on trial anytime I'll be there.
HEMMER: Thanks, Jeff.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
Aired February 25, 2004 - 07:19 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Lawyers for Martha Stewart expected to begin and end their case today. They plan to call possibly two witnesses. We know one for certain, and Stewart not among them.
Our senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, in the courtroom yesterday, back with us today.
Good morning.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: A bit of drama in this decision, would you not say?
TOOBIN: Well, I mean, you know, we've been talking about this for so long. Whenever you have a celebrity on trial, you always want to know whether the celebrity is going to tell his or her story to the jury.
I think it's the right decision for the lawyers, absolutely.
HEMMER: You do? The right decision.
TOOBIN: Absolutely. I think there are so many questions that she would have to answer and possibly get herself tied up in new controversies. They have their defense in front of the jury. It's a reasonable doubt defense, where they have challenged the prosecution's case on its weak points. I think win or lose, they've made the right decision in keeping her off the stand.
HEMMER: Back up just a bit here. As a general rule of thumb, as a defense attorney, do you want your client on the stand, or do you want to keep your client off the stand at all costs?
TOOBIN: By and large, you want to keep the client off the stand. Most defendants don't testify. Obviously, when you have a celebrity, there is some sense that a jury expects a professional communicator to communicate with them. But this jury seems unusually attentive to the judge's instructions. The judge will instruct them not to hold the defendant's silence against her. I think it's the right choice.
HEMMER: What was your sense of how this business manager testified yesterday on behalf of Martha, how she redirected possibly the prosecution's case?
TOOBIN: I thought Michael Schachter, the prosecutor, gave one of the best cross-examinations I have seen. It was stunning. What happened was -- remember, the day before Heidi DeLuca had testified about a conversation with Peter Bacanovic that they were going to sell the stock for $60 a share, the ImClone stock that is at the center of this case, Michael Schachter used documents to undermine that conversation, to prove -- certainly to me -- that, in fact, the conversation she was talking about was not in November, as she said, but was, in fact, in October about an entirely different set of ImClone stock. It was a masterful job.
There was a Perry Mason moment where he showed that a document that was used in the defense case was, in fact, not the real document that had its date on it. It really was stunning and riveting in the courtroom.
HEMMER: You have used more superlatives in this case...
TOOBIN: You know, I'm...
HEMMER: ... for a couple of weeks running.
TOOBIN: You know, I'm sorry about that.
HEMMER: Don't be sorry.
TOOBIN: I really feel like I'm (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the case, like, you know, I'm manufacturing -- this is really -- speaking of superlatives -- the second most interesting trial I have ever watched.
HEMMER: Is that so? What was No. 1?
TOOBIN: O.J. Simpson. I mean, that in a separate category. But this trial has been, really unexpectedly to me, superb lawyering, unexpected developments, interesting witnesses, and an outcome that I wouldn't hesitate to predict on or off-camera.
HEMMER: Do you think the jury gets the case at the end of the week or not?
TOOBIN: I think it will probably slip over till next week. I think there are enough outstanding issues that -- early next week, where I will not predict that either.
HEMMER: We know how to push your buttons now, don't we?
TOOBIN: Absolutely. Just put Martha on trial anytime I'll be there.
HEMMER: Thanks, Jeff.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
