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American Morning

Religion in Pop Culture

Aired February 25, 2004 - 08:36   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: After months of controversy, Americans across the country finally able to see "The Passion of the Christ" today. And if recent trends are an indication, the film will do very well at the box office. The religious thriller "The DaVinci Code" a best seller now for 47 weeks. Bruce Filer's book, "Abraham," a best seller for six months.
Bruce Filer is our guest to talk about these issues live in St. Louis.

Nice to have you.

BRUCE FEILER, CORRESPONDENT, "THE ATLANTIC MONTHLY": Good morning, Bill. Good to see you again.

HEMMER: Simple question here: why does it seem that the memory of Jesus, both in film and book, right now, is so popular across the country.

FEILER: Well, I think 30 years ago, we were told that religion was really dead as a matter in public life. Now if you look at the front page of any newscast, at the top of the hour, it's Afghanistan, terrorism, Iraq. Look at the domestic news, crisis in the Catholic Church, the Episcopal church, gay marriage. Religion has sort of reasserted itself. And sometimes people want to escape for their popular entertainment, but I think what's going on now is that people feel they want to learn more.

And I think really there's something else going on, and that is there's really a change in authority. In the same way we no longer accept what politicians tell us, or even journalists tell us, people no longer accept just at face value what their religious leaders tell us. In the age of the Internet, we go out, we do our own research, we are all historians, and in some ways, we are all theologians.

And what I've seen with my books is both "Abraham" and "Walking the Bible" is that people feel they need to talk about them, and that's what's going on, I think, with both "DaVinci" and "The Passion," is that people don't really go by themselves. They sort of go, sit around and talk about it, and so I think we're in sort of a national teach-in about religion.

HEMMER: Let me get back to your first point. Many would contend, Bruce, that it was never below the surface, it was always on top of the surface. It's just what Hollywood played to or did not play to. FEILER: I think there is a lot of truth to that. I am thinking of the "Time" magazine cover story in 1966, "Is God Dead?" which sort of said it really wasn't that big of a deal in public life anymore. And I think that 9/11 has made us realize that the extremists talk about religion, and I think what we're seeing now is that those of us who believe in mutual respect and tolerance are saying, we really have to get over that thing that our mama's all told us, which is, don't talk about politics and religion in public. We can't afford to do that anymore.

And I think that, when I see people talking about DaVinci or even "The Passion," they're tentative at first, and then when you prick it, then they really want to talk about it in public. So I think that is the change, which now it's OK, even in causal conversation, to talk about religion, because we really must.

HEMMER: Bruce, a couple of things, I want to bring these points out -- you say 50 years ago, this film would never have been made. You haven't seen "The Passion" yet, is that right?

FEILER: No, I have just come back from several weeks in Iraq, so I haven't seen it.

HEMMER: Perfectly excusable. But the point you make is that you cannot read the "DaVinci Code," you can not see this film without having more questions afterwards than before.

FEILER: And look how people are responding. There are books about these books and about these movies. There are study guides. "USA Today" yesterday had a big study guide, and I think what's happening. That's really the hopeful thing is that people will come out of the controversy and sit down and take about it, and that's what I have seen with my books, "Abraham" and "Walking The Bible," and people are going in groups. No one is sitting by themselves, and that, I think, is a hopeful thing, because what we need to do in the face of the political situation we face is to talk about the problems. That really is the only solution. So that, I think, is the hopeful message, that people are saying, I want to learn more, I want to teach myself. I want to be responsible for my beliefs.

HEMMER: One more point, then, based your answer. You say it's a danger out there to read "the DaVinci Code," to see Gibson's portrayal at the final 12 hours of Jesus' life and take it at fact.

FEILER: I think that's right.

HEMMER: Why is that a danger?

FEILER: Well, I think 200 years ago, everybody believed the Bible was true and that was really the end. I think even the majority of believers today understand that these are all interpretations, and I think when I found looking for "Abraham" is that each generation makes up each own, and it's the same with Jesus. I think "The DaVinci Code" shows that the Catholic Church squelched these interpretations. And look at "The Passion," 50 years ago, most plays and most films about Jesus talked about his life, his message of hope and his service to the poor.

Now Mel Gibson can make a movie that's about the last 12 hours, that as you've been saying all morning, is about death and is about violence. But what is -- where is the great purveyor of death and violence in the world today? It's Hollywood. This is a Hollywood interpretation, and it might have deep meaning and move a lot of people, but it is not fact, and the only way of looking at the story -- a lot of people, for example, like to look at Jesus' life, as much as Jesus' death.

HEMMER: Nice to talk to you. Bruce Feiler in St. Louis, appreciate your thoughts.

FEILER: Thanks, Bill.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired February 25, 2004 - 08:36   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: After months of controversy, Americans across the country finally able to see "The Passion of the Christ" today. And if recent trends are an indication, the film will do very well at the box office. The religious thriller "The DaVinci Code" a best seller now for 47 weeks. Bruce Filer's book, "Abraham," a best seller for six months.
Bruce Filer is our guest to talk about these issues live in St. Louis.

Nice to have you.

BRUCE FEILER, CORRESPONDENT, "THE ATLANTIC MONTHLY": Good morning, Bill. Good to see you again.

HEMMER: Simple question here: why does it seem that the memory of Jesus, both in film and book, right now, is so popular across the country.

FEILER: Well, I think 30 years ago, we were told that religion was really dead as a matter in public life. Now if you look at the front page of any newscast, at the top of the hour, it's Afghanistan, terrorism, Iraq. Look at the domestic news, crisis in the Catholic Church, the Episcopal church, gay marriage. Religion has sort of reasserted itself. And sometimes people want to escape for their popular entertainment, but I think what's going on now is that people feel they want to learn more.

And I think really there's something else going on, and that is there's really a change in authority. In the same way we no longer accept what politicians tell us, or even journalists tell us, people no longer accept just at face value what their religious leaders tell us. In the age of the Internet, we go out, we do our own research, we are all historians, and in some ways, we are all theologians.

And what I've seen with my books is both "Abraham" and "Walking the Bible" is that people feel they need to talk about them, and that's what's going on, I think, with both "DaVinci" and "The Passion," is that people don't really go by themselves. They sort of go, sit around and talk about it, and so I think we're in sort of a national teach-in about religion.

HEMMER: Let me get back to your first point. Many would contend, Bruce, that it was never below the surface, it was always on top of the surface. It's just what Hollywood played to or did not play to. FEILER: I think there is a lot of truth to that. I am thinking of the "Time" magazine cover story in 1966, "Is God Dead?" which sort of said it really wasn't that big of a deal in public life anymore. And I think that 9/11 has made us realize that the extremists talk about religion, and I think what we're seeing now is that those of us who believe in mutual respect and tolerance are saying, we really have to get over that thing that our mama's all told us, which is, don't talk about politics and religion in public. We can't afford to do that anymore.

And I think that, when I see people talking about DaVinci or even "The Passion," they're tentative at first, and then when you prick it, then they really want to talk about it in public. So I think that is the change, which now it's OK, even in causal conversation, to talk about religion, because we really must.

HEMMER: Bruce, a couple of things, I want to bring these points out -- you say 50 years ago, this film would never have been made. You haven't seen "The Passion" yet, is that right?

FEILER: No, I have just come back from several weeks in Iraq, so I haven't seen it.

HEMMER: Perfectly excusable. But the point you make is that you cannot read the "DaVinci Code," you can not see this film without having more questions afterwards than before.

FEILER: And look how people are responding. There are books about these books and about these movies. There are study guides. "USA Today" yesterday had a big study guide, and I think what's happening. That's really the hopeful thing is that people will come out of the controversy and sit down and take about it, and that's what I have seen with my books, "Abraham" and "Walking The Bible," and people are going in groups. No one is sitting by themselves, and that, I think, is a hopeful thing, because what we need to do in the face of the political situation we face is to talk about the problems. That really is the only solution. So that, I think, is the hopeful message, that people are saying, I want to learn more, I want to teach myself. I want to be responsible for my beliefs.

HEMMER: One more point, then, based your answer. You say it's a danger out there to read "the DaVinci Code," to see Gibson's portrayal at the final 12 hours of Jesus' life and take it at fact.

FEILER: I think that's right.

HEMMER: Why is that a danger?

FEILER: Well, I think 200 years ago, everybody believed the Bible was true and that was really the end. I think even the majority of believers today understand that these are all interpretations, and I think when I found looking for "Abraham" is that each generation makes up each own, and it's the same with Jesus. I think "The DaVinci Code" shows that the Catholic Church squelched these interpretations. And look at "The Passion," 50 years ago, most plays and most films about Jesus talked about his life, his message of hope and his service to the poor.

Now Mel Gibson can make a movie that's about the last 12 hours, that as you've been saying all morning, is about death and is about violence. But what is -- where is the great purveyor of death and violence in the world today? It's Hollywood. This is a Hollywood interpretation, and it might have deep meaning and move a lot of people, but it is not fact, and the only way of looking at the story -- a lot of people, for example, like to look at Jesus' life, as much as Jesus' death.

HEMMER: Nice to talk to you. Bruce Feiler in St. Louis, appreciate your thoughts.

FEILER: Thanks, Bill.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com