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American Morning
Police in Britain Arrests Eight Suspects in Early Morning Raid; Bush Administration Hoping to Strike Deal with Bipartisan Commission Investigating 9/11
Aired March 30, 2004 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, something big being planned in London.
Half a ton of explosive seized in raids this morning. Eight men with possible ties to terror arrested.
How far is the White House now willing to go to end the controversy around national security adviser Condoleezza Rice?
And police in Wisconsin search for a missing college student who was the victim of a strange assault just a month ago.
Those stories are all ahead on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, good morning. Welcome to Tuesday.
Other stories we're watching this morning, our conversation with a man who says he will represent Saddam Hussein in court.
French attorney Jacques Verges explaining his strategy to AMERICAN MORNING, and how he will deal with the millions of pages of documents showing years of brutality. He's with us this morning.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning, Janet Jackson returning to the public eye. She appeared last night on "The Late Show with David Letterman."
Kind of a skimpy little outfit there. We'll get a full report on what she had to tell him and also what's planned in her publicity tour coming up in just a little bit.
HEMMER: We'll get to Jack also here in just a moment.
Also top stories as we start this morning.
Our top story this hour, police in Britain have arrested eight suspects in an early morning raid there. A source saying there a link to possible Islamic terrorism.
Authorities say they also seized more than a half a ton of ammonium nitrate during that sweep. Live in London Shelia MacVicar is standing by; we'll get you there in a moment, here.
Also, officials in the Philippines arresting four Islamic militants in connection with a possible terrorist attack there. The president of the Philippines says an attack on the same scale of the train bombings in Madrid, Spain have been averted.
Four Abu Sayyaf operatives have been taken into custody along with 80 pounds of dynamite. Officials say the explosives were designated for an attack in the Philippine capitol of Manila.
A new poll now in this country showing President Bush's political position against his Democratic rival John Kerry strengthening. The CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll shows 51 percent of likely voters say they would choose the president; 47 percent went with Senator Kerry. That is within the margin of difference, the margin of error.
Both are back on the campaign trail. Today, the president talking about the economy in the state of Wisconsin. Senator Kerry heads to a fundraiser in the state of California.
A man who was the institution with the BBC has died. Alistair Cooke joined the BBC in 1934 as a film critic. Shortly after the Second World War, he started providing listeners with his weekly series, "Letter From America." That ran for 58 years.
Cooke had retired just a few weeks ago because of a heart disease. He was 95 years old.
Also for baseball fans, the season begins this year, but not with a beer and a brat, but with a coffee and a doughnut.
At this hour, the New York Yankees and Tampa Bay Devil Rays playing the first official game of 2004 in Tokyo. Tampa is leading 4- 3 a the moment.
Sixth inning score, we'll keep you posted throughout the morning on that. A lot of folks here in New York today paying attention to the Yankees today in Japan. Ohigo (ph).
O'BRIEN: Ohigo (ph).
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: The Bush administration is hoping to strike a deal with a bipartisan commission that's investigating 9/11, under which national security adviser Condoleezza Rice would testify to the panel for a second time.
White House correspondent Dana Bash has details on that for us this morning.
Hey, Dana, good morning.
DANA BASH, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
And the White House understands they cannot and will not give the Commission what they want, and that is public, sworn testimony from the national security adviser, so lawyers here and senior officials have been trying to work out ways to try to satisfy.
But now some of the options that Bush officials are floating are releasing some notes from the meeting that Condoleezza Rice did have in February with members of the Commission.
Also trying to find a way for her to meet with them in private again, not under oath, but with the promise of making as much of that public as possible.
So far, though, Soledad, Republican commissioners saying no go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SLADE GORTON, 9/11 COMMISSIONER: A major part of our duty is to see to it that everything possible is released to the general public, and that no compromise on a private visit by Condoleezza Rice is going to satisfy that need.
JAMES THOMPSON, 9/11 COMMISSIONER: This Commission has voted unanimously to ask Dr. Rice to appear before us as a witness under oath in public, and I think that's what she should do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now, the chairman of the Commission, Tom Kean, told "The New York Times" this morning no matter what, he wants her to be under oath, even if it's in a private meeting under penalty of perjury, just like Richard Clarke was.
Senate Democrats, Soledad, are going to continue to put the political pressure on this White House this morning; they are going to offer a resolution trying to force her to testify publicly. It's not likely to go anywhere, but certainly they understand the politics involved here -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Well, Dana, why is the White House seeking this compromise now? Is it just that the controversy is reached such a heated boil point that it's become necessary?
BASH: Well, in a word, yes. They understand that people are paying attention to this story. Take a look at one of the findings from our poll yesterday.
It shows that 70 percent of Americans are at least paying somewhat closely paying attention to this story.
That is a huge number for a Washington story, and they understand here at the White House that by Clarke going out in public, raising his right hand at the hearing, it is very hard to explain the technicalities or legal reasons why they feel like they can't testify -- have Condoleezza Rice testify in public. That is why they are actively seeking this compromise -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Dana Bash is at the White House for us this morning. Dana, thanks.
For much more on the situation now, we're joined by former Indiana Congressman Tim Roemer.
He's a member of the bipartisan 9/11 Commission. He's at our Washington bureau this morning.
Nice to se you, Commissioner Roemer.
TIM ROEMER, 9/11 COMMISSIONER: Nice to see you.
O'BRIEN: Thank you very much.
As you just heard Dana report, the White House now seeking a compromise. As it's described it would allow for some public testimony, but not under oath. What do you make of what's on the table at this point so far?
ROEMER: Well, Soledad, I think that our Commission has been very bipartisan and very united on this issue. Its almost more important for the American people to hear Dr. Rice than it is for the 9/11 Commission.
This is America; this is not some other country where this might go unabated. We need to hear from Dr. Rice, just as we heard from Mr. Clarke about the events leading up to 9/11.
We need to have that in public, we need to have that in sworn testimony, and we need to get to the facts on this case so that we can move forward and try to solve the problems of terrorists and jihadists coming into America over the next several years and get our situation settled, get our reforms in place, so that we're safer here in this country.
O'BRIEN: So testimony that is made public but not under oath would not satisfy you in any way, shape or form?
ROEMER: Well, I sat through the four hours of Dr. Rice's private testimony before, and while she's very compelling and very articulate, and will make -- you know -- a convincing witness for the Bush administration's side of the story, it is now time for us to take this to the public venue, to the American people and do it in sworn testimony.
More private testimony, while it might be appropriate on classified issues that cannot be discussed in the general public, we need to take this into the public venue.
Democrats and Republicans on the 9/11 Commission are united on this. The American people, as you've said in your polling, want to hear from Dr. Rice.
O'BRIEN: Apparently the administration is going to release some of the testimony before a 2002 Joint Congressional Inquiry into 9/11 that Richard Clarke gave back then. What else in addition to that -- they're going to strike, obviously, the parts that they feel are too sensitive to be released publicly -- what else in addition to that do you think needs to be released to the American public?
ROEMER: Well, I agree that that should be released, Soledad. I sat through those six hours of testimony behind closed doors. I think Mr. Clarke is consistent with what he said, and credible with what he said before with what he said before our Commission on 9/11.
I also think that we should seek to declassify Mr. Clarke's e- mail, the documents that are in question here as to how fast the administration proceeded with a plan on al Qaeda or how slowly they proceeded.
Those key documents are from January 25, a memo that includes short-term objectives that Mr. Clarke laid out, including aiding the Northern Alliance, putting the reconnaissance Predator up. And a long-term plan, to lend a plan and a strategic paper.
We should make those public, and we should also seek within the bounds of classification to make Dr. Rice's interview before the 9/11 Commission a few months ago that I sat in on public as well.
O'BRIEN: We only have a few seconds left, but I'm curious to get your opinion of this resolution that Senators Chuck Schumer and also Ted Kennedy have put forward at this point. Many people say it doesn't have any legs. Where do you think it's going to go?
ROEMER: Well, I have the highest respect for the Senate and the House where I spent 12 years. This is really a decision for the 9/11 Commission and the American public.
I think the American public really wants to hear from Dr. Rice as they heard from Mr. Clarke. They're not interested in finger pointing and blame gaming.
We want to get to the facts, we want to fulfill our mandate, write the definitive plot for what happened on 9/11 and proceed with recommendations in a bipartisan way to make this country a safer place from beyond this.
O'BRIEN: 9/11 Commissioner Tim Roemer joining us this morning. Mr. Roemer, thank you so much for your time. Appreciate it.
ROEMER: MY pleasure, Soledad. Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Bill.
HEMMER: Same topic -- Jack Cafferty, good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, you know the problem is there's a perception out there now that the White House has something to hide by fighting this effort to get her to testify.
Tom Kean is running the Commission -- says put her in the chair, we're not a Congressional body; the precedent of having national security advisers not testify before Congressional committees doesn't apply, because this isn't a Congressional committee.
It's a bipartisan commission. This is the United States, it is supposedly an open society and if there are issues of national security, they can be addressed perhaps as they arise but what's the problem?
Sit down in the chair, take the oath and tell us what you know.
Richard Clarke has suggested that there are some differences between his version of events and what the national security adviser's versions are, but it isn't going to go away.
They're not going to just suddenly say OK; you don't have to do this. So, the heat is on and the White House is going to have to -- going to have to figure out a way to address this.
It's an election year, but what is it they're trying to hide? What is it they're trying to protect? Why won't they let her testify?
HEMMER: Suggestion from last week during the Commission -- have Condoleezza Rice come in after Richard Clarke on that final day she would have had the last word, essentially -- you know -- throwing her trump card over Richard Clarke anything he would have said prior to that.
CAFFERTY: Yes, but the reluctance apparently is having to testify and swear to tell the truth. They want the testimony under penalty of perjury and she doesn't want to go near that.
The question is, should she be forced to do this in public under oath?
HEMMER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) again today. They're talking, we know that. Maybe there is a compromise somewhere in there.
CAFFERTY: Well, it's the finger pointing and blame gaming is the best part.
HEMMER: I'm telling you. More of that today, too.
Another political note for you, President Bush starting to get some mileage from his TV campaign against Senator Kerry. We mentioned earlier that latest CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll shows President Bush leading Senator Kerry by four points.
The newest ad uses record high gas prices to paint Senator Kerry as a tax raiser.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Some people have wacky ideas like taxing gasoline more so people drive less. That's John Kerry. He supported a 50-cent a gallon gas tax. If Kerry's gas tax...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Also, Senator Kerry says he will spell out a plan today to lower gas prices. He's in California. Some of the highest prices in the country there.
Senator Kerry points the finger of blame at the White House for this matter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Notice that gas is now close to three dollars a gallon here in California. If it keeps going up like that, folks, Dick Cheney and President Bush are going to have to carpool to work together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Senator Kerry continues to campaign in the West today, noting the number of jobs lost during the Bush administration. Today -- in Wisconsin, rather -- President Bush will talk about the economy. We'll follow those stories throughout the morning for you.
A lot of political talk today yet again.
O'BRIEN: Yes. Still to come this morning, just how strong an ally is Pakistan on the war on terror? Going to take a look at that coming up.
HEMMER: Also, a 20-year-old University of Wisconsin student disappearing without a trace. A family member talks about the disturbing case ahead, and whether or not there are any clues now.
O'BRIEN: And the grand jury meets in the Michael Jackson case but nobody knows where they are. Just how far can the judge go in protecting the jurors. A look at that ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Back to our top story this morning, the arrest of eight British citizens suspected of being involved in possible terrorist activities.
Let's take you right to London and Shelia MacVicar. Shelia, good morning.
SHELIA MACVICAR, SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning Soledad.
A major counterterrorism operation carried out in the early hours of this morning. The police telling us that eight British men believed, according to some police sources, to be of Pakistani origin, aged between 17 and 24, arrested some 25 different searches carried out.
Now one of those searches was at this storage facility you can see here behind me. A very normal kind of storage facility where you can hire out a room with space and store anything you like in there.
The police finding there nearly 1,000 pounds of ammonium nitrate fertilizer. Ammonium nitrate fertilizer, of course, being the explosive, which was used in the Oklahoma City bombings, in the Bali bomb and others.
Police saying this morning that they have intercepted what they believe to have been a very serious threat to public safety, taking a very unusual step for British police, Soledad, of going public and making a statement just a short while ago -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: All right, Shelia MacVicar is in London for us with this story, and obviously Shelia will continue to check in with you throughout the morning about this. Thank you very much -- Bill.
HEMMER: About 17 minutes past the hour now. Prosecutors and news crews played hide and seek in Santa Barbara, California yesterday while the grand jury in the Michael Jackson case met in a secret location. The media ran all over the place trying to find them.
Jeff Toobin is back with us here, our senior legal analyst. You never leave this place, by the way.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Hey, you know. Round the clock, baby.
HEMMER: So the judge wants to keep this private. Are they successful at this point?
TOOBIN: Well so far they are. In fact, we don't even know for a fact that the grand jury did meet.
One of the things that I find that people don't really understand about grand juries is that it's not a court proceeding with a judge and a defense lawyer -- there's no judge in a grand jury.
There's only the grand jurors and the prosecutor who brings in the witnesses in front of a court reporter, so it can be held pretty much anywhere. You don't need a courtroom, and apparently they are playing this game out in Santa Barbara where we don't know where the grand jury is.
HEMMER: This is a new one on me. Unusual for you or not?
TOOBIN: Very unusual. It is true that you don't need a courtroom. In fact, grand jury rooms' look -- tend to look more like classrooms than courtrooms.
The jurors sit in sort of classroom style and the prosecutor brings the witness in front so you could do it anywhere, but it is usually the case that it is somewhere in the courtroom where there is a grand jury meeting room and I've never seen one where there's a -- you know -- truly secret location.
HEMMER: Listen, there's a lawyer representing the media. I think CNN included in all of this trying to say this is -- violates the First Amendment rights. Is there an argument to be made or not?
TOOBIN: Well, I think the order is so broad that certainly there is some chance that the order could be changed.
The order that the judge entered said not only is the grand jury itself secret which is always the case, but anyone walking in and out of the grand jury building wherever it may be that the grand jury is meeting who might be a witness you can't take their photograph.
That is so broad it could cover people you wouldn't really know who was -- who was a witness and who wasn't, so it's effectively an order not to take pictures of anyone coming in and out of the -- out of the building. That I think the judge may have a problem...
HEMMER: Dare I say only in California?
TOOBIN: You know, you can safely assume in this case.
HEMMER: All right, listen, while we have you here, I want to talk about the Jayson Williams case right now. The defense is trying to show that it's possible that this shotgun could have misfired and gone off accidentally.
In court, have they been successful in anyway trying to prove that point?
TOOBIN: Well, just to remember -- this case -- there's really no dispute about the fundamental facts in this case that Jayson Williams did hold the gun that killed Gus Christofi, the chauffer. The only issue in the case is was it an accident as the defense contends -- maintains -- or was it reckless.
The defense has been arguing that the gun could have malfunctioned. They say it was possibly a wood chip got stuck in the gun.
The problem for the defense is even though their expert said yes it is possible, the only way the expert could get the gun to fire was by pulling the trigger, which is what the prosecution maintains, happened.
HEMMER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) before he testified.
TOOBIN: Right. So, yes, I -- you know, it depends on which way the jury is disposed here. It's not really that big a difference between accident and reckless so I don't really know.
HEMMER: You think the prosecution has got a pretty good case, don't you?
TOOBIN: You know, the key facts in this case have nothing to do with the gun itself. They have to do with the cover-up.
Jayson Williams ripping off all his clothes, jumping in the pool, telling other people to be quiet. Guilty conscience, that's the key issue in the case as far as I can tell. HEMMER: Thank you, Jeff. Good to talk to you as always.
TOOBIN: All right.
HEMMER: Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, our interview with the lawyer who claims to represent Saddam Hussein.
Plus, a judge denies a mistrial motion in the Tyco trial but can the jury overcome its recent unrest? Stay with us; you're watching AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: The judge says no to a mistrial motion in the Tyco case and the jury is back deliberating. But will a little time out be enough for the jury to overcome its recent turmoil?
Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business" this morning. Hello.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Hello, good to see you.
O'BRIEN: Many people thought that actually that mistrial would have to be declared because of course there was all this chaos over that one juror, juror number four.
SERWER: Yes, I mean, but this trial nobody knows any more. I mean, the dramatic turn of events seem to happen every single day, Soledad.
Let's pick up where we left off yesterday. Defense wanted a mistrial because of press reports over juror number four's alleged high sign to the defense, giving the "OK" sign.
OK, the judge, Judge Michael Obus said no, he actually interviewed this juror, number four, that's what we're calling her on CNN. And apparently she was able to continue. She told the judge and she was able to continue so he sent the jury back into deliberations.
Later in the afternoon, the jury did its job and started sending notes back to the judge indicating that it was getting on with the process.
What's happening here, Soledad, that's so interesting, is if she changes her mind and comes back with a guilty verdict, then the defense is going to say she was coerced, forced by the judge, setting up an appeal.
However, if there's a couple of days like yesterday, today, maybe even going into tomorrow, that's enough time to maybe show that she was naturally changing her mind. Very interesting stuff going on in the trial right now.
O'BRIEN: Has anyone actually confirmed -- because we've been saying that she allegedly appeared to do this? SERWER: Absolutely. You must say it that way, because the defense is saying she was merely brushing back her hair like -- you do that all the time with a high sign with the "O," right?
I mean, it really is the stuff of movies, and there's going to be some great books about this, but, you know, the judge actually didn't see it, he was told about it. So you have to be careful here.
O'BRIEN: Interesting, interesting. How about a market preview.
SERWER: Yes, a banner day yesterday. Let's talk about that. The Dow up 116 points, very nice. Stocks up across the board. What was happening? Lack of negative news, positive news from blue chips.
Optimism over earnings season coming up. This morning, however, futures a little weaker, oil prices moving up, but we do have a big confidence numbers coming out after the market opens so we'll watch that.
O'BRIEN: All right, thanks Andy.
SERWER: You're welcome.
HEMMER: Sports note for you. Follow-up three weeks ago, his neck was broken on the ice after being hit. Colorado Avalanche forward Steve Moore now speaking out about that.
Moore says he does not remember that hit by Vancouver's Todd Bertuzzi. The attack left Moore with two broken vertebrae and a concussion.
Moore talked about the future just yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVEN MOORE, COLORADO AVALANCHE: I'm in an optimistic stage, you know? I've come a long way and hopefully one day I'll be able to play again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Moore says he has not spoken to Bertuzzi about that incident. Bertuzzi was suspended for the rest of the season, also fined substantially. Vancouver police also looking into possible assault charges against him.
O'BRIEN: That is so hard to watch that. Clocking him on the head. Every single time you see it.
HEMMER: Every time you see it on the videotape, you're right.
O'BRIEN: I'm surprised they haven't talked, are you?
HEMMER: There's time for that, I guess.
O'BRIEN: Three weeks later? HEMMER: I don't know.
SERWER: How about an apology?
O'BRIEN: I was going to say -- I mean, maybe not Moore talking to Bertuzzi, but Bertuzzi certainly.
HEMMER: Well Bertuzzi came out the day after and had that press conference in Vancouver and issued his apology publicly...
SERWER: A personal one would be nice, though, too.
HEMMER: OK.
O'BRIEN: I think we're on the same page about this, Andy.
Still to come this morning, is it time to tuck the kids in for night a little bit earlier? How much sleep is exactly the right amount? Details of a new study are just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired March 30, 2004 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, something big being planned in London.
Half a ton of explosive seized in raids this morning. Eight men with possible ties to terror arrested.
How far is the White House now willing to go to end the controversy around national security adviser Condoleezza Rice?
And police in Wisconsin search for a missing college student who was the victim of a strange assault just a month ago.
Those stories are all ahead on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, good morning. Welcome to Tuesday.
Other stories we're watching this morning, our conversation with a man who says he will represent Saddam Hussein in court.
French attorney Jacques Verges explaining his strategy to AMERICAN MORNING, and how he will deal with the millions of pages of documents showing years of brutality. He's with us this morning.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning, Janet Jackson returning to the public eye. She appeared last night on "The Late Show with David Letterman."
Kind of a skimpy little outfit there. We'll get a full report on what she had to tell him and also what's planned in her publicity tour coming up in just a little bit.
HEMMER: We'll get to Jack also here in just a moment.
Also top stories as we start this morning.
Our top story this hour, police in Britain have arrested eight suspects in an early morning raid there. A source saying there a link to possible Islamic terrorism.
Authorities say they also seized more than a half a ton of ammonium nitrate during that sweep. Live in London Shelia MacVicar is standing by; we'll get you there in a moment, here.
Also, officials in the Philippines arresting four Islamic militants in connection with a possible terrorist attack there. The president of the Philippines says an attack on the same scale of the train bombings in Madrid, Spain have been averted.
Four Abu Sayyaf operatives have been taken into custody along with 80 pounds of dynamite. Officials say the explosives were designated for an attack in the Philippine capitol of Manila.
A new poll now in this country showing President Bush's political position against his Democratic rival John Kerry strengthening. The CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll shows 51 percent of likely voters say they would choose the president; 47 percent went with Senator Kerry. That is within the margin of difference, the margin of error.
Both are back on the campaign trail. Today, the president talking about the economy in the state of Wisconsin. Senator Kerry heads to a fundraiser in the state of California.
A man who was the institution with the BBC has died. Alistair Cooke joined the BBC in 1934 as a film critic. Shortly after the Second World War, he started providing listeners with his weekly series, "Letter From America." That ran for 58 years.
Cooke had retired just a few weeks ago because of a heart disease. He was 95 years old.
Also for baseball fans, the season begins this year, but not with a beer and a brat, but with a coffee and a doughnut.
At this hour, the New York Yankees and Tampa Bay Devil Rays playing the first official game of 2004 in Tokyo. Tampa is leading 4- 3 a the moment.
Sixth inning score, we'll keep you posted throughout the morning on that. A lot of folks here in New York today paying attention to the Yankees today in Japan. Ohigo (ph).
O'BRIEN: Ohigo (ph).
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: The Bush administration is hoping to strike a deal with a bipartisan commission that's investigating 9/11, under which national security adviser Condoleezza Rice would testify to the panel for a second time.
White House correspondent Dana Bash has details on that for us this morning.
Hey, Dana, good morning.
DANA BASH, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
And the White House understands they cannot and will not give the Commission what they want, and that is public, sworn testimony from the national security adviser, so lawyers here and senior officials have been trying to work out ways to try to satisfy.
But now some of the options that Bush officials are floating are releasing some notes from the meeting that Condoleezza Rice did have in February with members of the Commission.
Also trying to find a way for her to meet with them in private again, not under oath, but with the promise of making as much of that public as possible.
So far, though, Soledad, Republican commissioners saying no go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SLADE GORTON, 9/11 COMMISSIONER: A major part of our duty is to see to it that everything possible is released to the general public, and that no compromise on a private visit by Condoleezza Rice is going to satisfy that need.
JAMES THOMPSON, 9/11 COMMISSIONER: This Commission has voted unanimously to ask Dr. Rice to appear before us as a witness under oath in public, and I think that's what she should do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now, the chairman of the Commission, Tom Kean, told "The New York Times" this morning no matter what, he wants her to be under oath, even if it's in a private meeting under penalty of perjury, just like Richard Clarke was.
Senate Democrats, Soledad, are going to continue to put the political pressure on this White House this morning; they are going to offer a resolution trying to force her to testify publicly. It's not likely to go anywhere, but certainly they understand the politics involved here -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Well, Dana, why is the White House seeking this compromise now? Is it just that the controversy is reached such a heated boil point that it's become necessary?
BASH: Well, in a word, yes. They understand that people are paying attention to this story. Take a look at one of the findings from our poll yesterday.
It shows that 70 percent of Americans are at least paying somewhat closely paying attention to this story.
That is a huge number for a Washington story, and they understand here at the White House that by Clarke going out in public, raising his right hand at the hearing, it is very hard to explain the technicalities or legal reasons why they feel like they can't testify -- have Condoleezza Rice testify in public. That is why they are actively seeking this compromise -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Dana Bash is at the White House for us this morning. Dana, thanks.
For much more on the situation now, we're joined by former Indiana Congressman Tim Roemer.
He's a member of the bipartisan 9/11 Commission. He's at our Washington bureau this morning.
Nice to se you, Commissioner Roemer.
TIM ROEMER, 9/11 COMMISSIONER: Nice to see you.
O'BRIEN: Thank you very much.
As you just heard Dana report, the White House now seeking a compromise. As it's described it would allow for some public testimony, but not under oath. What do you make of what's on the table at this point so far?
ROEMER: Well, Soledad, I think that our Commission has been very bipartisan and very united on this issue. Its almost more important for the American people to hear Dr. Rice than it is for the 9/11 Commission.
This is America; this is not some other country where this might go unabated. We need to hear from Dr. Rice, just as we heard from Mr. Clarke about the events leading up to 9/11.
We need to have that in public, we need to have that in sworn testimony, and we need to get to the facts on this case so that we can move forward and try to solve the problems of terrorists and jihadists coming into America over the next several years and get our situation settled, get our reforms in place, so that we're safer here in this country.
O'BRIEN: So testimony that is made public but not under oath would not satisfy you in any way, shape or form?
ROEMER: Well, I sat through the four hours of Dr. Rice's private testimony before, and while she's very compelling and very articulate, and will make -- you know -- a convincing witness for the Bush administration's side of the story, it is now time for us to take this to the public venue, to the American people and do it in sworn testimony.
More private testimony, while it might be appropriate on classified issues that cannot be discussed in the general public, we need to take this into the public venue.
Democrats and Republicans on the 9/11 Commission are united on this. The American people, as you've said in your polling, want to hear from Dr. Rice.
O'BRIEN: Apparently the administration is going to release some of the testimony before a 2002 Joint Congressional Inquiry into 9/11 that Richard Clarke gave back then. What else in addition to that -- they're going to strike, obviously, the parts that they feel are too sensitive to be released publicly -- what else in addition to that do you think needs to be released to the American public?
ROEMER: Well, I agree that that should be released, Soledad. I sat through those six hours of testimony behind closed doors. I think Mr. Clarke is consistent with what he said, and credible with what he said before with what he said before our Commission on 9/11.
I also think that we should seek to declassify Mr. Clarke's e- mail, the documents that are in question here as to how fast the administration proceeded with a plan on al Qaeda or how slowly they proceeded.
Those key documents are from January 25, a memo that includes short-term objectives that Mr. Clarke laid out, including aiding the Northern Alliance, putting the reconnaissance Predator up. And a long-term plan, to lend a plan and a strategic paper.
We should make those public, and we should also seek within the bounds of classification to make Dr. Rice's interview before the 9/11 Commission a few months ago that I sat in on public as well.
O'BRIEN: We only have a few seconds left, but I'm curious to get your opinion of this resolution that Senators Chuck Schumer and also Ted Kennedy have put forward at this point. Many people say it doesn't have any legs. Where do you think it's going to go?
ROEMER: Well, I have the highest respect for the Senate and the House where I spent 12 years. This is really a decision for the 9/11 Commission and the American public.
I think the American public really wants to hear from Dr. Rice as they heard from Mr. Clarke. They're not interested in finger pointing and blame gaming.
We want to get to the facts, we want to fulfill our mandate, write the definitive plot for what happened on 9/11 and proceed with recommendations in a bipartisan way to make this country a safer place from beyond this.
O'BRIEN: 9/11 Commissioner Tim Roemer joining us this morning. Mr. Roemer, thank you so much for your time. Appreciate it.
ROEMER: MY pleasure, Soledad. Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Bill.
HEMMER: Same topic -- Jack Cafferty, good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, you know the problem is there's a perception out there now that the White House has something to hide by fighting this effort to get her to testify.
Tom Kean is running the Commission -- says put her in the chair, we're not a Congressional body; the precedent of having national security advisers not testify before Congressional committees doesn't apply, because this isn't a Congressional committee.
It's a bipartisan commission. This is the United States, it is supposedly an open society and if there are issues of national security, they can be addressed perhaps as they arise but what's the problem?
Sit down in the chair, take the oath and tell us what you know.
Richard Clarke has suggested that there are some differences between his version of events and what the national security adviser's versions are, but it isn't going to go away.
They're not going to just suddenly say OK; you don't have to do this. So, the heat is on and the White House is going to have to -- going to have to figure out a way to address this.
It's an election year, but what is it they're trying to hide? What is it they're trying to protect? Why won't they let her testify?
HEMMER: Suggestion from last week during the Commission -- have Condoleezza Rice come in after Richard Clarke on that final day she would have had the last word, essentially -- you know -- throwing her trump card over Richard Clarke anything he would have said prior to that.
CAFFERTY: Yes, but the reluctance apparently is having to testify and swear to tell the truth. They want the testimony under penalty of perjury and she doesn't want to go near that.
The question is, should she be forced to do this in public under oath?
HEMMER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) again today. They're talking, we know that. Maybe there is a compromise somewhere in there.
CAFFERTY: Well, it's the finger pointing and blame gaming is the best part.
HEMMER: I'm telling you. More of that today, too.
Another political note for you, President Bush starting to get some mileage from his TV campaign against Senator Kerry. We mentioned earlier that latest CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll shows President Bush leading Senator Kerry by four points.
The newest ad uses record high gas prices to paint Senator Kerry as a tax raiser.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Some people have wacky ideas like taxing gasoline more so people drive less. That's John Kerry. He supported a 50-cent a gallon gas tax. If Kerry's gas tax...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Also, Senator Kerry says he will spell out a plan today to lower gas prices. He's in California. Some of the highest prices in the country there.
Senator Kerry points the finger of blame at the White House for this matter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Notice that gas is now close to three dollars a gallon here in California. If it keeps going up like that, folks, Dick Cheney and President Bush are going to have to carpool to work together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Senator Kerry continues to campaign in the West today, noting the number of jobs lost during the Bush administration. Today -- in Wisconsin, rather -- President Bush will talk about the economy. We'll follow those stories throughout the morning for you.
A lot of political talk today yet again.
O'BRIEN: Yes. Still to come this morning, just how strong an ally is Pakistan on the war on terror? Going to take a look at that coming up.
HEMMER: Also, a 20-year-old University of Wisconsin student disappearing without a trace. A family member talks about the disturbing case ahead, and whether or not there are any clues now.
O'BRIEN: And the grand jury meets in the Michael Jackson case but nobody knows where they are. Just how far can the judge go in protecting the jurors. A look at that ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues.
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O'BRIEN: Back to our top story this morning, the arrest of eight British citizens suspected of being involved in possible terrorist activities.
Let's take you right to London and Shelia MacVicar. Shelia, good morning.
SHELIA MACVICAR, SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning Soledad.
A major counterterrorism operation carried out in the early hours of this morning. The police telling us that eight British men believed, according to some police sources, to be of Pakistani origin, aged between 17 and 24, arrested some 25 different searches carried out.
Now one of those searches was at this storage facility you can see here behind me. A very normal kind of storage facility where you can hire out a room with space and store anything you like in there.
The police finding there nearly 1,000 pounds of ammonium nitrate fertilizer. Ammonium nitrate fertilizer, of course, being the explosive, which was used in the Oklahoma City bombings, in the Bali bomb and others.
Police saying this morning that they have intercepted what they believe to have been a very serious threat to public safety, taking a very unusual step for British police, Soledad, of going public and making a statement just a short while ago -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: All right, Shelia MacVicar is in London for us with this story, and obviously Shelia will continue to check in with you throughout the morning about this. Thank you very much -- Bill.
HEMMER: About 17 minutes past the hour now. Prosecutors and news crews played hide and seek in Santa Barbara, California yesterday while the grand jury in the Michael Jackson case met in a secret location. The media ran all over the place trying to find them.
Jeff Toobin is back with us here, our senior legal analyst. You never leave this place, by the way.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Hey, you know. Round the clock, baby.
HEMMER: So the judge wants to keep this private. Are they successful at this point?
TOOBIN: Well so far they are. In fact, we don't even know for a fact that the grand jury did meet.
One of the things that I find that people don't really understand about grand juries is that it's not a court proceeding with a judge and a defense lawyer -- there's no judge in a grand jury.
There's only the grand jurors and the prosecutor who brings in the witnesses in front of a court reporter, so it can be held pretty much anywhere. You don't need a courtroom, and apparently they are playing this game out in Santa Barbara where we don't know where the grand jury is.
HEMMER: This is a new one on me. Unusual for you or not?
TOOBIN: Very unusual. It is true that you don't need a courtroom. In fact, grand jury rooms' look -- tend to look more like classrooms than courtrooms.
The jurors sit in sort of classroom style and the prosecutor brings the witness in front so you could do it anywhere, but it is usually the case that it is somewhere in the courtroom where there is a grand jury meeting room and I've never seen one where there's a -- you know -- truly secret location.
HEMMER: Listen, there's a lawyer representing the media. I think CNN included in all of this trying to say this is -- violates the First Amendment rights. Is there an argument to be made or not?
TOOBIN: Well, I think the order is so broad that certainly there is some chance that the order could be changed.
The order that the judge entered said not only is the grand jury itself secret which is always the case, but anyone walking in and out of the grand jury building wherever it may be that the grand jury is meeting who might be a witness you can't take their photograph.
That is so broad it could cover people you wouldn't really know who was -- who was a witness and who wasn't, so it's effectively an order not to take pictures of anyone coming in and out of the -- out of the building. That I think the judge may have a problem...
HEMMER: Dare I say only in California?
TOOBIN: You know, you can safely assume in this case.
HEMMER: All right, listen, while we have you here, I want to talk about the Jayson Williams case right now. The defense is trying to show that it's possible that this shotgun could have misfired and gone off accidentally.
In court, have they been successful in anyway trying to prove that point?
TOOBIN: Well, just to remember -- this case -- there's really no dispute about the fundamental facts in this case that Jayson Williams did hold the gun that killed Gus Christofi, the chauffer. The only issue in the case is was it an accident as the defense contends -- maintains -- or was it reckless.
The defense has been arguing that the gun could have malfunctioned. They say it was possibly a wood chip got stuck in the gun.
The problem for the defense is even though their expert said yes it is possible, the only way the expert could get the gun to fire was by pulling the trigger, which is what the prosecution maintains, happened.
HEMMER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) before he testified.
TOOBIN: Right. So, yes, I -- you know, it depends on which way the jury is disposed here. It's not really that big a difference between accident and reckless so I don't really know.
HEMMER: You think the prosecution has got a pretty good case, don't you?
TOOBIN: You know, the key facts in this case have nothing to do with the gun itself. They have to do with the cover-up.
Jayson Williams ripping off all his clothes, jumping in the pool, telling other people to be quiet. Guilty conscience, that's the key issue in the case as far as I can tell. HEMMER: Thank you, Jeff. Good to talk to you as always.
TOOBIN: All right.
HEMMER: Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, our interview with the lawyer who claims to represent Saddam Hussein.
Plus, a judge denies a mistrial motion in the Tyco trial but can the jury overcome its recent unrest? Stay with us; you're watching AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: The judge says no to a mistrial motion in the Tyco case and the jury is back deliberating. But will a little time out be enough for the jury to overcome its recent turmoil?
Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business" this morning. Hello.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Hello, good to see you.
O'BRIEN: Many people thought that actually that mistrial would have to be declared because of course there was all this chaos over that one juror, juror number four.
SERWER: Yes, I mean, but this trial nobody knows any more. I mean, the dramatic turn of events seem to happen every single day, Soledad.
Let's pick up where we left off yesterday. Defense wanted a mistrial because of press reports over juror number four's alleged high sign to the defense, giving the "OK" sign.
OK, the judge, Judge Michael Obus said no, he actually interviewed this juror, number four, that's what we're calling her on CNN. And apparently she was able to continue. She told the judge and she was able to continue so he sent the jury back into deliberations.
Later in the afternoon, the jury did its job and started sending notes back to the judge indicating that it was getting on with the process.
What's happening here, Soledad, that's so interesting, is if she changes her mind and comes back with a guilty verdict, then the defense is going to say she was coerced, forced by the judge, setting up an appeal.
However, if there's a couple of days like yesterday, today, maybe even going into tomorrow, that's enough time to maybe show that she was naturally changing her mind. Very interesting stuff going on in the trial right now.
O'BRIEN: Has anyone actually confirmed -- because we've been saying that she allegedly appeared to do this? SERWER: Absolutely. You must say it that way, because the defense is saying she was merely brushing back her hair like -- you do that all the time with a high sign with the "O," right?
I mean, it really is the stuff of movies, and there's going to be some great books about this, but, you know, the judge actually didn't see it, he was told about it. So you have to be careful here.
O'BRIEN: Interesting, interesting. How about a market preview.
SERWER: Yes, a banner day yesterday. Let's talk about that. The Dow up 116 points, very nice. Stocks up across the board. What was happening? Lack of negative news, positive news from blue chips.
Optimism over earnings season coming up. This morning, however, futures a little weaker, oil prices moving up, but we do have a big confidence numbers coming out after the market opens so we'll watch that.
O'BRIEN: All right, thanks Andy.
SERWER: You're welcome.
HEMMER: Sports note for you. Follow-up three weeks ago, his neck was broken on the ice after being hit. Colorado Avalanche forward Steve Moore now speaking out about that.
Moore says he does not remember that hit by Vancouver's Todd Bertuzzi. The attack left Moore with two broken vertebrae and a concussion.
Moore talked about the future just yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVEN MOORE, COLORADO AVALANCHE: I'm in an optimistic stage, you know? I've come a long way and hopefully one day I'll be able to play again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Moore says he has not spoken to Bertuzzi about that incident. Bertuzzi was suspended for the rest of the season, also fined substantially. Vancouver police also looking into possible assault charges against him.
O'BRIEN: That is so hard to watch that. Clocking him on the head. Every single time you see it.
HEMMER: Every time you see it on the videotape, you're right.
O'BRIEN: I'm surprised they haven't talked, are you?
HEMMER: There's time for that, I guess.
O'BRIEN: Three weeks later? HEMMER: I don't know.
SERWER: How about an apology?
O'BRIEN: I was going to say -- I mean, maybe not Moore talking to Bertuzzi, but Bertuzzi certainly.
HEMMER: Well Bertuzzi came out the day after and had that press conference in Vancouver and issued his apology publicly...
SERWER: A personal one would be nice, though, too.
HEMMER: OK.
O'BRIEN: I think we're on the same page about this, Andy.
Still to come this morning, is it time to tuck the kids in for night a little bit earlier? How much sleep is exactly the right amount? Details of a new study are just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
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