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American Morning
U.S. Vowing Precise, Overwhelming Response to Killings of American Contractors; Discussion with Former Helicopter Pilot Michael Durant
Aired April 02, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The promise to hunt down the killers of four Americans in Fallujah. This as Iraqi insurgents strike again today.
Michael Jackson receives praise in Washington, while a California grand jury hears from a 14-year-old accuser.
And a growing wildfire threatening homes in Colorado.
All ahead this hour on AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
HEMMER: Welcome to Friday. Soledad is out today. Heidi Collins back with us here on AMERICAN MORNING. Good morning to you.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN: Good morning.
HEMMER: It's the end of the week.
COLLINS: It is the end of the week. Short week for me, though.
Other stories that we are following this morning, fighting broke out between Israeli police and Muslim worshipers in Jerusalem today.
We are going to go live to the holy site where Muslims and Jews that has been a flashpoint for the intifada.
HEMMER: Also with new information leaking out just about everyday from the White House and 9/11 Commission, Condoleezza Rice may face a lot of tough new questions next Thursday, that's when -- announced the schedule, next Thursday in D.C., find out much more about the political damage the White House is trying to contain at this point.
That's ahead this hour also this morning.
COLLINS: Jack Cafferty.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Yes, nice to see you.
Donald Trump got something going with this "Apprentice" thing, and now there are more of these tedious programs and pipeline (ph). We're going to take a look at the reality show "Phenom." It's been a heavy-duty week with Condoleezza Rice, and the stuff in Fallujah, so we're going to take a step back.
Besides, I have a cold and I don't feel like working very hard today, so we're just going to cruise.
COLLINS: We have already heard a lot about that haven't we, Jack?
CAFFERTY: You know whose fault it is? Soledad O'Brien put her hand over my mouth two days ago on this program. She'd been suffering from a cold for two days and I'm sick now...
HEMMER: She had had her hands clean all morning that day.
COLLINS: Yes, but why did she put her hand over your mouth?
CAFFERTY: Well, she took issue with something that was coming out of my mouth.
COLLINS: No?
CAFFERTY: This occasionally happens.
COLLINS: All right, well, we'll baby you today, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Good, I'd appreciate it.
COLLINS: Want to get to the news now, though.
A date has been set. National security adviser Condoleezza Rice will testify before the 9/11 Commission next Thursday, April 8.
That, according to the Commission. Commission members are interested in learning more about the transition between the Clinton and Bush administrations, and what information was shared about al Qaeda.
Well, according to reports the Bush administration has blocked some of those documents from the Clinton administration from being turned over to the 9/11 panel.
Secretary of State Colin Powell will visit Haiti next week. The visit is set for Monday. Secretary Powell is expected to meet with representatives of Haiti's interim government. Likely topics are expected to include restoring stability and the humanitarian needs of the country.
Police in Madison, Wisconsin have released the first sketch of Audrey Seiler's suspected abductor. The sketch shows a white, clean- shaven man in his late 20s or early 30s. Seiler says the man led her away at knifepoint this past weekend.
Some people are questioning whether the abduction happened, but police say so far they have no reason to doubt the incident. In New Jersey, lawyers in the manslaughter trial of Jayson Williams say they may seek a mistrial. At issue are some two-dozen photographs submitted yesterday after the defense had rested its case.
Williams's attorneys claim that prosecutors improperly withheld the evidence. The trial was set to resume Monday, but the judge has delayed it to at least Tuesday to consider if the prosecution is at fault.
And Sunday morning will come an hour earlier for most Americans this weekend. Officially for most of the country, daylight savings time takes place at 2 a.m. on Sunday. Spring forward is a good reminder to set clocks one hour ahead before turning in on Saturday. Trying to be upbeat about that.
HEMMER: Yes you are.
COLLINS: That hour, you know.
HEMMER: That's right. Also take -- and change the batteries in your smoke alarms as well.
COLLINS: Yes, we should do that as well.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: The U.S. vowing a precise and overwhelming response to the killings of four American contractors in Iraq. Meanwhile, there is some anti-American sentiment being expressed again today in the Iraqi streets and Walter Rodgers on top of both these angles live in Baghdad there for us.
Walter, hello.
WALTER RODGERS, CNN: Good morning, Bill. Cold fury and the thinly veiled promise of vengeance. That's what U.S. officials here in Baghdad are signaling will be the American response to the murder and butchery of four civilian contractors in Fallujah on Wednesday of this past week.
One U.S. general here said we will return to Fallujah, it will be pacified, and we will hunt down those responsible for that -- for that killing.
Now on the streets of Baghdad today there were more anti-American protests, very large protests, as a matter of fact, as the faithful Muslims poured out of the mosques and demonstrated by the tens of thousands against what they see as the American occupation of their country.
Basically, this protest started against the efforts to shut down a Shiite newspaper this past week, but it quickly became much, much broader in scope.
The slogans were, "America and the governing council are infidels." The crowd shouted, "Allow us to fight America." "No to the Jews, no to America, yes to jihad and a holy war."
One Muslim cleric preached in this crowd "Everything is unstable in Iraq now" -- Bill.
HEMMER: Walter, with regard to Fallujah, it is our understanding that Marines are outside of that town. How much information do you have about that operation that may or may not be underway there now?
RODGERS: We have not received word that it's underway; we were told that it would not be precipitous in yesterday's briefing here. An American general said it will be deliberate, it will be -- it will be thorough. This is going to be a lockdown when it occurs.
This is not just an in and out surgical strike. But I think they're moving a little more slowly than perhaps some people would like, because they want to identify the perpetrators of the violence against those four civilian contractors, and right now the U.S. intelligence officers are studying the video, looking at the faces of the young, crazed crowd, trying to isolate people then arrest those people squeeze them, persuade them to then tell who was actually behind the original attack on the car, the masked men with their hand grenades and automatic weapons -- Bill.
HEMMER: Walter Rodgers in Baghdad, thanks for that.
The vicious events in Fallujah have been compared now to Mogadishu, Somalia -- 11 years ago, 1993 -- Somalis celebrated in a blaze of a downed U.S. helicopter.
This, after 18 Americans were killed in a battle with Somali government. Some of their bodies then dragged through the streets and not long after the U.S. effort in Somalia ended the U.S. pulled out.
Former helicopter pilot Michael Durant was held captive in Somalia for 11 days. He's our guest this morning live in Tampa, Florida.
Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING. Nice to se you this morning.
MICHAEL DURANT, FORMER HELICOPTER PILOT: Good morning.
HEMMER: When you heard of the events in Fallujah did you think immediately of what happened in Mogadishu?
DURANT: Well, certainly I did. I think there are similarities with regard to what happened right there on the scene. But I think what's very different about it is how we're planning to respond to it.
HEMMER: In what way is that different from 1993?
DURANT: Well, I think it -- and again -- you know, I'm seeing it for the first time from the outside. In 1993, I was in the middle of it, so I didn't see the media response, and I didn't see the reaction of the American public.
What I see today is not an overreaction to this. I think people have an appreciation that this is a minority; it's not the majority of the public sentiment in Iraq.
And I see a measured response, and I don't see an overreaction from anyone with regard to a statements about are we doing the right thing, should we stay the course?
HEMMER: I know you're on record as saying the U.S. made the wrong move of getting out of Somalia 11 years ago. You also said recently that you think the event this week in Fallujah ought to account for that withdrawal from 1993. Explain that. Why do you believe that?
DURANT: Well, certainly not exclusively. I'm not trying to say that because we pulled out of Somalia it led directly to this but it is a contributing factor.
I think there's a perception out there by some of the Baath Party members and quite frankly the people that oppose the United States that if they can cause enough harm to our troops that we will lose the political will to stay the course. And I believe that is part of their overarching strategy, and I think its encouraging to see that we are not going to allow that to occur, that we are going to stay the course and we will stay there until we finish this mission.
HEMMER: Michael, you mentioned the military response that we're all waiting to see how it does flush out there in Fallujah. Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt made this comment yesterday regarding the response. Listen here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. MILITARY SPOKESMAN: Well, quite simply we will respond. We are not going to do a pell-mell rush into the city. It's going to be deliberate, it will be precise, and it will be overwhelming. We will not rush in to make things worse. We will plan our way through this and we will reestablish control of that city and we will pacify that city.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Deliberate, precise, overwhelming. In addition to that you have the pictures on the front page of major newspapers yesterday. Was it right to print those pictures do you believe or should that have been held back in your estimation?
DURANT: Well, from what I've seen -- I think it's been handled appropriately. It obviously -- I haven't seen every paper in the whole country around the world -- but from what I've seen it's been handled I think at about the right level. You know you're going to have a differing of opinion between any group of people but I think if you wanted to see the worst of the photographs you had to go looking for them and I think that's appropriate.
HEMMER: Michael Durant, thank you for your time from Tampa, Florida this morning. Appreciate it.
DURANT: You're welcome. HEMMER: All right -- Heidi.
COLLINS: In the Middle East, a spasm of violence this morning near a site that is considered holy by both Muslims and Jews.
Israeli police rushed after Palestinian protestors who had thrown rocks at them after the end of Friday prayers. Chris Burns joining us now live from Jerusalem with details -- good morning, Chris.
CHRIS BURNS, CNN: Good morning, Heidi. At least 14 people arrested and about a dozen or so people injured in this clash at what you really could call the epicenter of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
It is the holy site for both religions, for Jews and for Arabs -- the Jews call it Temple Mount, the Arabs -- the Muslims call it the al-Harm al-Sharif, or the Noble Sanctuary. Today was Friday prayers of the Muslims and there were a number of youths who were throwing rocks down on the western wall where Jewish worshipers were worshiping there.
That is what caused the Israeli police, they say, to move in on those protestors. There was a standoff, perhaps thousands of people in the mosques inside taking cover as the clashes went on. At last word there is an agreement for both sides to cease and desist. We'll have to watch and see how that goes.
Meanwhile, there are some interviews published of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon where he is quoted as saying that Yasser Arafat, the Palestinian leader could very well be targeted if he is linked to any future attacks on Israelis.
But he also said something very interesting as well that by Passover of next year -- Passover starts this Monday -- Passover of next year Israel will be in full swing in separating itself from the Palestinians in his disengagement plan, pulling out of Gaza. And perhaps parts of the West Bank so very interesting interviews coming out today and on Monday. We'll have to watch how those go.
COLLINS: Yes and we will count on you for that. Chris Burns live in Jerusalem this morning, Chris, thanks so much.
BURNS: Thank you.
HEMMER: Still to come this morning the Michael Jackson grand jury reportedly hearing now from the accuser, age 14 now. What's the impact of the boy's testimony? Jeff Toobin examines the significance in a moment.
COLLINS: Hundreds forced from their homes as a wildfire roars out of control in Colorado. We'll go live.
HEMMER: Also a struggling computer maker delivers more bad news. Andy has that in a matter of moments here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COLLINS: A man accused of impersonating a fire investigator is now a possible suspect in a series of D.C.-area arson cases. Noel Gibson (ph) charged yesterday with making a false statement to a federal agent after allegedly telling that agent he was the Fairfax County Virginia fire department.
Gibson currently does not face any charges connected to the fires. Those fires dating back to March of 2003 have killed one person, injured about a dozen. Gibson now being held without bond in the D.C.-area.
COLLINS: The Michael Jackson grand jury reportedly has heard from his accuser. A source tells CNN that the 14-year-old boy testified on Tuesday. The boy claims Jackson molested him when he was 12.
CNN's senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin joining us now to talk about the significance of this testimony. In fact, I want to begin with how unusual this might be to hear from the accuser?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Well in a grand jury proceeding, the government doesn't have to put in direct evidence. They can put in hearsay evidence. So the government could have had an officer, a police officer, testify about what the accuser told him.
That would spare the accuser the experience of testifying in a grand jury.
But, apparently, that's not what they did. They put the accuser himself in the grand jury. That suggests that they want to have sort of dry run -- give the -- give this boy the chance to testify in a relatively controlled setting. Of course because grand juries are private, there's no audience there and there's no defense counsel so there's no cross-examination.
So it's not just like testifying in a trial but it's a first step and this is obviously what the government wanted to do.
COLLINS: What do you think the questions were like that they asked him? What did they want to learn from him?
TOOBIN: Well this is at least based on the charges we've seen so far close to a one-witness case. There is only really one witness who is important in the case, which is this boy. What did Michael Jackson do to you?
How did you meet him? And they want to try -- I would expect keep the testimony fairly narrow because this transcript will be turned over to the defense before his trial and he will be cross examined on this testimony when he's testifies at the trial so they don't want him to commit to some story that he'll have to change in some way later on.
COLLINS: Right, so what does it all mean for the defense?
TOOBIN: You know, it means that this case is proceeding. It means that Michael Jackson almost certainly is going to get indicted. Grand juries almost always do exactly what prosecutors want so that the fact that the prosecution is moving methodically through these witnesses this week; they've had witnesses related to the 1993 incident who -- the fellow who was paid off by Michael Jackson and then there were no criminal charges filed. So that's what this case is as far as we know the '93 incident, the 2003 incident -- and looks like Michael Jackson will be indicted and there will be a trial.
COLLINS: Let's talk about, quickly, that 1993 case for just a moment. The sources also told us that the lawyer who represented the 1993 accuser testified as well so what type of evidence or information from that case could actually be translated or used in this case?
TOOBIN: Well, again, because grand juries have loose rules of evidence he could testify about what the '93 accuser told him that Michael Jackson did. That would be admissible in a grand jury; it wouldn't be admissible in a trial. Because that would be hearsay but that's just a way of developing the evidence relating to what happened in '93 in this case here this year.
COLLINS: All right, CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. Thanks so much as always -- Bill.
HEMMER: Heidi still to come here how will the U.S. Marines now respond in Fallujah?
Also a troubled P.C. maker shutting some doors and thousands get walking papers.
Andy and Jack back in a moment after this on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back everybody. Big March jobs report due out this morning. Andy's watching that quite closely.
Also one of the world's most dangerous jobs today. Andy Serwer's "Minding Your Business." Good morning to you. First check of the day today.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Yes, let's talk about topic A -- in the business world -- the only business story that matters, jobs, jobs, jobs.
Coming out at 8:30 today the big jobs report for the month of March. Here's what economists are looking at here. We're expecting the rate to hold constant at 5.6. The big number is the bottom number. We're expecting to add 120,000 jobs.
Well, we've been trying to add over 100,000 jobs for a couple of months and falling short. But look here: since September of last year we have been adding jobs. So all this hand-wringing about the job recovery it's not completely true because we have added some.
It's just less than expected.
HEMMER: Just not going up at the clip a lot of people, especially in the White House would like.
SERWER: Well that's right.
HEMMER: Speaking of jobs, the security detail in Iraq is getting a lot of attention this week as a result of Fallujah. What did you find out about the number of people working there -- how lucrative or not it might be?
SERWER: Well for instance the people who lost their lives in Fallujah worked for a company called Blackwater U.S.A., which is one of these private security firms. Thousands of jobs in Iraq, Bill.
As many as 4,000 people, including the people who guard Mr. Bremer there as you can see. Over 15,000 private contractors -- you know the jobs here obviously filling the void. The military cut down the job picture not so great here. You can make as much as say $100,000-200,000 a year.
You can see there in that middle line. A lot of money. But you have to be a Special Forces or a Delta Forces guy to make that kind of money.
HEMMER: A former Seal or a former Ranger.
SERWER: Exactly.
HEMMER: You talked a little bit earlier in the week about Gateway.
SERWER: Yes. Gateway, this is a company of course that's been struggling. P.C. maker, had this strategy to have stores, retail stores, called Gateway Country. Well, it really didn't work out. They're competing against Dell and HP and that's really tough.
They're closing 188 of the stores, almost right away. And 2500 jobs will be lost so again a very, very important issue.
HEMMER: Watching the clock, one hour and six minutes, jobs report.
SERWER: The jobs report, topic A.
HEMMER: Thank you Andy -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Time now for the Cafferty File and the "Question of the Day" from Jack.
CAFFERTY: Thank you, Heidi. Donald Trump probably isn't' going to want to hear this. The British billionaire Sir Richard Branson is starting a reality TV show of his own.
The CEO of the Virgin group will star in his own show on the F- word network (ph) tentatively titled "Branson's Big Adventure." The show will follow Branson and his contestants on a six-week tour of the world and he will eliminate one contestant each week, leaving them literally on the airport tarmac while the remaining players jet off. I kind of like that, actually. This comes after the NBC success with Trump's tedious program "The Apprentice" which...
HEMMER: Who says tedious?
COLLINS: I love it!
HEMMER: I kind of like it too.
(CROSSTALK)
CAFFERTY: It's too easy; it's like putting a quarter in a jukebox. NBA Mavericks owner Mark Cuban -- you really are filling in for Soledad, aren't you? NBA owner Mark Cuban will also star in the ABC reality show called "The Benefactor" in which $1 million in cash will be given to the winning contestant.
That's that old -- remember "The Millionaire" that old show -- you would remember -- you guys aren't old enough.
SERWER: Thank you, Jack.
CAFFERTY: John Beresford Tipton, remember?
SERWER: Yes.
CAFFERTY: Anyway, here's the "Question of the Day" because it's Friday and I'm sick and I didn't want to work any harder than this. Who should and who shouldn't have a reality show? And if you want to e-mail us on anything else but try to keep it light.
SERWER: This is a reality show, isn't it?
CAFFERTY: This here?
SERWER: Yes. I mean...
CAFFERTY: More or less.
HEMMER: CBS is starting -- you know we got to get this to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) next hour. They're going to look for the next Martha Stewart.
CAFFERTY: Oh, swell.
HEMMER: Bring all these people in.
SERWER: I could be a judge of that, I think. I would be terrific.
CAFFERTY: That's what the world needs is another one of those.
HEMMER: I'll tell you. All right, everybody is talking about gas prices. Trust Jon Stewart to have a rather unique take on this last night on "The Daily Show." A sample from there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON STEWART, THE DAILY SHOW: Despite the record gas prices, the United States still pays less than half what Germany, France, England, Italy, Scandinavia, Japan, and this other small, region of the gas- loving world pays.
But then again as the country guarding every well in that area, we should get the employee discount.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
SERWER: Yes, not like Venezuela, remember 14 cents a gallon?
CAFFERTY: I know, more expensive to own a donkey down there.
SERWER: Or you could fly down with a gas can and fill up and bring it back it would be cheaper.
CAFFERTY: Well that's it, you can do that.
SERWER: Yes.
HEMMER: Options. Everywhere. All right in a moment here Jayson Williams's trial continues next week. Have the prosecution withheld key evidence from the defense team? That's their allegation -- we'll get to it bottom of the hour right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired April 2, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The promise to hunt down the killers of four Americans in Fallujah. This as Iraqi insurgents strike again today.
Michael Jackson receives praise in Washington, while a California grand jury hears from a 14-year-old accuser.
And a growing wildfire threatening homes in Colorado.
All ahead this hour on AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
HEMMER: Welcome to Friday. Soledad is out today. Heidi Collins back with us here on AMERICAN MORNING. Good morning to you.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN: Good morning.
HEMMER: It's the end of the week.
COLLINS: It is the end of the week. Short week for me, though.
Other stories that we are following this morning, fighting broke out between Israeli police and Muslim worshipers in Jerusalem today.
We are going to go live to the holy site where Muslims and Jews that has been a flashpoint for the intifada.
HEMMER: Also with new information leaking out just about everyday from the White House and 9/11 Commission, Condoleezza Rice may face a lot of tough new questions next Thursday, that's when -- announced the schedule, next Thursday in D.C., find out much more about the political damage the White House is trying to contain at this point.
That's ahead this hour also this morning.
COLLINS: Jack Cafferty.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Yes, nice to see you.
Donald Trump got something going with this "Apprentice" thing, and now there are more of these tedious programs and pipeline (ph). We're going to take a look at the reality show "Phenom." It's been a heavy-duty week with Condoleezza Rice, and the stuff in Fallujah, so we're going to take a step back.
Besides, I have a cold and I don't feel like working very hard today, so we're just going to cruise.
COLLINS: We have already heard a lot about that haven't we, Jack?
CAFFERTY: You know whose fault it is? Soledad O'Brien put her hand over my mouth two days ago on this program. She'd been suffering from a cold for two days and I'm sick now...
HEMMER: She had had her hands clean all morning that day.
COLLINS: Yes, but why did she put her hand over your mouth?
CAFFERTY: Well, she took issue with something that was coming out of my mouth.
COLLINS: No?
CAFFERTY: This occasionally happens.
COLLINS: All right, well, we'll baby you today, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Good, I'd appreciate it.
COLLINS: Want to get to the news now, though.
A date has been set. National security adviser Condoleezza Rice will testify before the 9/11 Commission next Thursday, April 8.
That, according to the Commission. Commission members are interested in learning more about the transition between the Clinton and Bush administrations, and what information was shared about al Qaeda.
Well, according to reports the Bush administration has blocked some of those documents from the Clinton administration from being turned over to the 9/11 panel.
Secretary of State Colin Powell will visit Haiti next week. The visit is set for Monday. Secretary Powell is expected to meet with representatives of Haiti's interim government. Likely topics are expected to include restoring stability and the humanitarian needs of the country.
Police in Madison, Wisconsin have released the first sketch of Audrey Seiler's suspected abductor. The sketch shows a white, clean- shaven man in his late 20s or early 30s. Seiler says the man led her away at knifepoint this past weekend.
Some people are questioning whether the abduction happened, but police say so far they have no reason to doubt the incident. In New Jersey, lawyers in the manslaughter trial of Jayson Williams say they may seek a mistrial. At issue are some two-dozen photographs submitted yesterday after the defense had rested its case.
Williams's attorneys claim that prosecutors improperly withheld the evidence. The trial was set to resume Monday, but the judge has delayed it to at least Tuesday to consider if the prosecution is at fault.
And Sunday morning will come an hour earlier for most Americans this weekend. Officially for most of the country, daylight savings time takes place at 2 a.m. on Sunday. Spring forward is a good reminder to set clocks one hour ahead before turning in on Saturday. Trying to be upbeat about that.
HEMMER: Yes you are.
COLLINS: That hour, you know.
HEMMER: That's right. Also take -- and change the batteries in your smoke alarms as well.
COLLINS: Yes, we should do that as well.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: The U.S. vowing a precise and overwhelming response to the killings of four American contractors in Iraq. Meanwhile, there is some anti-American sentiment being expressed again today in the Iraqi streets and Walter Rodgers on top of both these angles live in Baghdad there for us.
Walter, hello.
WALTER RODGERS, CNN: Good morning, Bill. Cold fury and the thinly veiled promise of vengeance. That's what U.S. officials here in Baghdad are signaling will be the American response to the murder and butchery of four civilian contractors in Fallujah on Wednesday of this past week.
One U.S. general here said we will return to Fallujah, it will be pacified, and we will hunt down those responsible for that -- for that killing.
Now on the streets of Baghdad today there were more anti-American protests, very large protests, as a matter of fact, as the faithful Muslims poured out of the mosques and demonstrated by the tens of thousands against what they see as the American occupation of their country.
Basically, this protest started against the efforts to shut down a Shiite newspaper this past week, but it quickly became much, much broader in scope.
The slogans were, "America and the governing council are infidels." The crowd shouted, "Allow us to fight America." "No to the Jews, no to America, yes to jihad and a holy war."
One Muslim cleric preached in this crowd "Everything is unstable in Iraq now" -- Bill.
HEMMER: Walter, with regard to Fallujah, it is our understanding that Marines are outside of that town. How much information do you have about that operation that may or may not be underway there now?
RODGERS: We have not received word that it's underway; we were told that it would not be precipitous in yesterday's briefing here. An American general said it will be deliberate, it will be -- it will be thorough. This is going to be a lockdown when it occurs.
This is not just an in and out surgical strike. But I think they're moving a little more slowly than perhaps some people would like, because they want to identify the perpetrators of the violence against those four civilian contractors, and right now the U.S. intelligence officers are studying the video, looking at the faces of the young, crazed crowd, trying to isolate people then arrest those people squeeze them, persuade them to then tell who was actually behind the original attack on the car, the masked men with their hand grenades and automatic weapons -- Bill.
HEMMER: Walter Rodgers in Baghdad, thanks for that.
The vicious events in Fallujah have been compared now to Mogadishu, Somalia -- 11 years ago, 1993 -- Somalis celebrated in a blaze of a downed U.S. helicopter.
This, after 18 Americans were killed in a battle with Somali government. Some of their bodies then dragged through the streets and not long after the U.S. effort in Somalia ended the U.S. pulled out.
Former helicopter pilot Michael Durant was held captive in Somalia for 11 days. He's our guest this morning live in Tampa, Florida.
Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING. Nice to se you this morning.
MICHAEL DURANT, FORMER HELICOPTER PILOT: Good morning.
HEMMER: When you heard of the events in Fallujah did you think immediately of what happened in Mogadishu?
DURANT: Well, certainly I did. I think there are similarities with regard to what happened right there on the scene. But I think what's very different about it is how we're planning to respond to it.
HEMMER: In what way is that different from 1993?
DURANT: Well, I think it -- and again -- you know, I'm seeing it for the first time from the outside. In 1993, I was in the middle of it, so I didn't see the media response, and I didn't see the reaction of the American public.
What I see today is not an overreaction to this. I think people have an appreciation that this is a minority; it's not the majority of the public sentiment in Iraq.
And I see a measured response, and I don't see an overreaction from anyone with regard to a statements about are we doing the right thing, should we stay the course?
HEMMER: I know you're on record as saying the U.S. made the wrong move of getting out of Somalia 11 years ago. You also said recently that you think the event this week in Fallujah ought to account for that withdrawal from 1993. Explain that. Why do you believe that?
DURANT: Well, certainly not exclusively. I'm not trying to say that because we pulled out of Somalia it led directly to this but it is a contributing factor.
I think there's a perception out there by some of the Baath Party members and quite frankly the people that oppose the United States that if they can cause enough harm to our troops that we will lose the political will to stay the course. And I believe that is part of their overarching strategy, and I think its encouraging to see that we are not going to allow that to occur, that we are going to stay the course and we will stay there until we finish this mission.
HEMMER: Michael, you mentioned the military response that we're all waiting to see how it does flush out there in Fallujah. Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt made this comment yesterday regarding the response. Listen here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. MILITARY SPOKESMAN: Well, quite simply we will respond. We are not going to do a pell-mell rush into the city. It's going to be deliberate, it will be precise, and it will be overwhelming. We will not rush in to make things worse. We will plan our way through this and we will reestablish control of that city and we will pacify that city.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Deliberate, precise, overwhelming. In addition to that you have the pictures on the front page of major newspapers yesterday. Was it right to print those pictures do you believe or should that have been held back in your estimation?
DURANT: Well, from what I've seen -- I think it's been handled appropriately. It obviously -- I haven't seen every paper in the whole country around the world -- but from what I've seen it's been handled I think at about the right level. You know you're going to have a differing of opinion between any group of people but I think if you wanted to see the worst of the photographs you had to go looking for them and I think that's appropriate.
HEMMER: Michael Durant, thank you for your time from Tampa, Florida this morning. Appreciate it.
DURANT: You're welcome. HEMMER: All right -- Heidi.
COLLINS: In the Middle East, a spasm of violence this morning near a site that is considered holy by both Muslims and Jews.
Israeli police rushed after Palestinian protestors who had thrown rocks at them after the end of Friday prayers. Chris Burns joining us now live from Jerusalem with details -- good morning, Chris.
CHRIS BURNS, CNN: Good morning, Heidi. At least 14 people arrested and about a dozen or so people injured in this clash at what you really could call the epicenter of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
It is the holy site for both religions, for Jews and for Arabs -- the Jews call it Temple Mount, the Arabs -- the Muslims call it the al-Harm al-Sharif, or the Noble Sanctuary. Today was Friday prayers of the Muslims and there were a number of youths who were throwing rocks down on the western wall where Jewish worshipers were worshiping there.
That is what caused the Israeli police, they say, to move in on those protestors. There was a standoff, perhaps thousands of people in the mosques inside taking cover as the clashes went on. At last word there is an agreement for both sides to cease and desist. We'll have to watch and see how that goes.
Meanwhile, there are some interviews published of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon where he is quoted as saying that Yasser Arafat, the Palestinian leader could very well be targeted if he is linked to any future attacks on Israelis.
But he also said something very interesting as well that by Passover of next year -- Passover starts this Monday -- Passover of next year Israel will be in full swing in separating itself from the Palestinians in his disengagement plan, pulling out of Gaza. And perhaps parts of the West Bank so very interesting interviews coming out today and on Monday. We'll have to watch how those go.
COLLINS: Yes and we will count on you for that. Chris Burns live in Jerusalem this morning, Chris, thanks so much.
BURNS: Thank you.
HEMMER: Still to come this morning the Michael Jackson grand jury reportedly hearing now from the accuser, age 14 now. What's the impact of the boy's testimony? Jeff Toobin examines the significance in a moment.
COLLINS: Hundreds forced from their homes as a wildfire roars out of control in Colorado. We'll go live.
HEMMER: Also a struggling computer maker delivers more bad news. Andy has that in a matter of moments here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COLLINS: A man accused of impersonating a fire investigator is now a possible suspect in a series of D.C.-area arson cases. Noel Gibson (ph) charged yesterday with making a false statement to a federal agent after allegedly telling that agent he was the Fairfax County Virginia fire department.
Gibson currently does not face any charges connected to the fires. Those fires dating back to March of 2003 have killed one person, injured about a dozen. Gibson now being held without bond in the D.C.-area.
COLLINS: The Michael Jackson grand jury reportedly has heard from his accuser. A source tells CNN that the 14-year-old boy testified on Tuesday. The boy claims Jackson molested him when he was 12.
CNN's senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin joining us now to talk about the significance of this testimony. In fact, I want to begin with how unusual this might be to hear from the accuser?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Well in a grand jury proceeding, the government doesn't have to put in direct evidence. They can put in hearsay evidence. So the government could have had an officer, a police officer, testify about what the accuser told him.
That would spare the accuser the experience of testifying in a grand jury.
But, apparently, that's not what they did. They put the accuser himself in the grand jury. That suggests that they want to have sort of dry run -- give the -- give this boy the chance to testify in a relatively controlled setting. Of course because grand juries are private, there's no audience there and there's no defense counsel so there's no cross-examination.
So it's not just like testifying in a trial but it's a first step and this is obviously what the government wanted to do.
COLLINS: What do you think the questions were like that they asked him? What did they want to learn from him?
TOOBIN: Well this is at least based on the charges we've seen so far close to a one-witness case. There is only really one witness who is important in the case, which is this boy. What did Michael Jackson do to you?
How did you meet him? And they want to try -- I would expect keep the testimony fairly narrow because this transcript will be turned over to the defense before his trial and he will be cross examined on this testimony when he's testifies at the trial so they don't want him to commit to some story that he'll have to change in some way later on.
COLLINS: Right, so what does it all mean for the defense?
TOOBIN: You know, it means that this case is proceeding. It means that Michael Jackson almost certainly is going to get indicted. Grand juries almost always do exactly what prosecutors want so that the fact that the prosecution is moving methodically through these witnesses this week; they've had witnesses related to the 1993 incident who -- the fellow who was paid off by Michael Jackson and then there were no criminal charges filed. So that's what this case is as far as we know the '93 incident, the 2003 incident -- and looks like Michael Jackson will be indicted and there will be a trial.
COLLINS: Let's talk about, quickly, that 1993 case for just a moment. The sources also told us that the lawyer who represented the 1993 accuser testified as well so what type of evidence or information from that case could actually be translated or used in this case?
TOOBIN: Well, again, because grand juries have loose rules of evidence he could testify about what the '93 accuser told him that Michael Jackson did. That would be admissible in a grand jury; it wouldn't be admissible in a trial. Because that would be hearsay but that's just a way of developing the evidence relating to what happened in '93 in this case here this year.
COLLINS: All right, CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. Thanks so much as always -- Bill.
HEMMER: Heidi still to come here how will the U.S. Marines now respond in Fallujah?
Also a troubled P.C. maker shutting some doors and thousands get walking papers.
Andy and Jack back in a moment after this on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back everybody. Big March jobs report due out this morning. Andy's watching that quite closely.
Also one of the world's most dangerous jobs today. Andy Serwer's "Minding Your Business." Good morning to you. First check of the day today.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Yes, let's talk about topic A -- in the business world -- the only business story that matters, jobs, jobs, jobs.
Coming out at 8:30 today the big jobs report for the month of March. Here's what economists are looking at here. We're expecting the rate to hold constant at 5.6. The big number is the bottom number. We're expecting to add 120,000 jobs.
Well, we've been trying to add over 100,000 jobs for a couple of months and falling short. But look here: since September of last year we have been adding jobs. So all this hand-wringing about the job recovery it's not completely true because we have added some.
It's just less than expected.
HEMMER: Just not going up at the clip a lot of people, especially in the White House would like.
SERWER: Well that's right.
HEMMER: Speaking of jobs, the security detail in Iraq is getting a lot of attention this week as a result of Fallujah. What did you find out about the number of people working there -- how lucrative or not it might be?
SERWER: Well for instance the people who lost their lives in Fallujah worked for a company called Blackwater U.S.A., which is one of these private security firms. Thousands of jobs in Iraq, Bill.
As many as 4,000 people, including the people who guard Mr. Bremer there as you can see. Over 15,000 private contractors -- you know the jobs here obviously filling the void. The military cut down the job picture not so great here. You can make as much as say $100,000-200,000 a year.
You can see there in that middle line. A lot of money. But you have to be a Special Forces or a Delta Forces guy to make that kind of money.
HEMMER: A former Seal or a former Ranger.
SERWER: Exactly.
HEMMER: You talked a little bit earlier in the week about Gateway.
SERWER: Yes. Gateway, this is a company of course that's been struggling. P.C. maker, had this strategy to have stores, retail stores, called Gateway Country. Well, it really didn't work out. They're competing against Dell and HP and that's really tough.
They're closing 188 of the stores, almost right away. And 2500 jobs will be lost so again a very, very important issue.
HEMMER: Watching the clock, one hour and six minutes, jobs report.
SERWER: The jobs report, topic A.
HEMMER: Thank you Andy -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Time now for the Cafferty File and the "Question of the Day" from Jack.
CAFFERTY: Thank you, Heidi. Donald Trump probably isn't' going to want to hear this. The British billionaire Sir Richard Branson is starting a reality TV show of his own.
The CEO of the Virgin group will star in his own show on the F- word network (ph) tentatively titled "Branson's Big Adventure." The show will follow Branson and his contestants on a six-week tour of the world and he will eliminate one contestant each week, leaving them literally on the airport tarmac while the remaining players jet off. I kind of like that, actually. This comes after the NBC success with Trump's tedious program "The Apprentice" which...
HEMMER: Who says tedious?
COLLINS: I love it!
HEMMER: I kind of like it too.
(CROSSTALK)
CAFFERTY: It's too easy; it's like putting a quarter in a jukebox. NBA Mavericks owner Mark Cuban -- you really are filling in for Soledad, aren't you? NBA owner Mark Cuban will also star in the ABC reality show called "The Benefactor" in which $1 million in cash will be given to the winning contestant.
That's that old -- remember "The Millionaire" that old show -- you would remember -- you guys aren't old enough.
SERWER: Thank you, Jack.
CAFFERTY: John Beresford Tipton, remember?
SERWER: Yes.
CAFFERTY: Anyway, here's the "Question of the Day" because it's Friday and I'm sick and I didn't want to work any harder than this. Who should and who shouldn't have a reality show? And if you want to e-mail us on anything else but try to keep it light.
SERWER: This is a reality show, isn't it?
CAFFERTY: This here?
SERWER: Yes. I mean...
CAFFERTY: More or less.
HEMMER: CBS is starting -- you know we got to get this to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) next hour. They're going to look for the next Martha Stewart.
CAFFERTY: Oh, swell.
HEMMER: Bring all these people in.
SERWER: I could be a judge of that, I think. I would be terrific.
CAFFERTY: That's what the world needs is another one of those.
HEMMER: I'll tell you. All right, everybody is talking about gas prices. Trust Jon Stewart to have a rather unique take on this last night on "The Daily Show." A sample from there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON STEWART, THE DAILY SHOW: Despite the record gas prices, the United States still pays less than half what Germany, France, England, Italy, Scandinavia, Japan, and this other small, region of the gas- loving world pays.
But then again as the country guarding every well in that area, we should get the employee discount.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
SERWER: Yes, not like Venezuela, remember 14 cents a gallon?
CAFFERTY: I know, more expensive to own a donkey down there.
SERWER: Or you could fly down with a gas can and fill up and bring it back it would be cheaper.
CAFFERTY: Well that's it, you can do that.
SERWER: Yes.
HEMMER: Options. Everywhere. All right in a moment here Jayson Williams's trial continues next week. Have the prosecution withheld key evidence from the defense team? That's their allegation -- we'll get to it bottom of the hour right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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