Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Heavy Fighting Reported in Fallujah; Iraqi Unrest Spreads

Aired April 06, 2004 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: In just a few minutes, we'll be joined by Pulitzer Prize winning reporter Anthony Shadid to talk and look at the options.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Also, a lot of questions on this Jayson Williams case. The trial is now suspended for a week, maybe longer. Jeff Toobin, waiting in the wings here of our very studio, telling us why the judge made the order and the chances of a mistrial.

COLLINS: Another mistrial, possibly.

HEMMER: We'll get to that in a moment here.

COLLINS: Yes, we will. For now, though, the news this morning.

The U.S. administrator in Iraq, Ambassador Paul Bremer, says coalition troops will pursue Shiite cleric Muqtada Al-Sadr. Bremer says the cleric has a -- quote -- "unacceptable vision of Iraq."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL BREMER, U.S. ADMINISTRATOR IN IRAQ: We intend to continue after him, and we will bring him in justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Aides say Bremer has canceled a trip to Washington, D.C. due to the situation in Iraq. He was scheduled to meet with senators on Capitol Hill today.

Emergency crews are searching for dozens of people missing after a series of flash floods along the Mexico-Texas border. More than 30 people have died. About 100 homes have been damaged, and thousands of people are living in makeshift shelters. Officials are warning, a new wave of rain could trigger more flooding.

Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry holds a rally in Cincinnati today. This will be Kerry's fourth campaign visit to Ohio. Aides say Kerry's speech will focus on the economy and his plan to create 10 million new jobs in America.

President Bush at Busch Stadium in Saint Louis for opening day. The president threw out the ceremonial first pitch and then watched the first five innings from a private box. The Cards eventually lost to the Brewers 8-6.

In Houston, Barry Bonds hit his 659th homerun. That's right, 6- 5-9. That puts him only one behind his godfather, Willie Mays. The giants rallied to beat the Astros 5-4.

You've seen the running of the bulls in Spain, but now New Zealand has a running of the sheep. Of course, they do. As part of the national sheep sheering championships, they paraded 2,000 sheep through town, but the sheep panicked and went on an unplanned romp through the streets until residents could herd them back on course. And that's one thing you don't want, sheep on a romp through the streets.

HEMMER: A lot of sheep in that country.

COLLINS: Yes.

HEMMER: They have 60 million sheep in New Zealand and only like 3 million people.

COLLINS: Yes.

HEMMER: So, clearly they outnumber the folks living there.

COLLINS: And now they're all over the place.

HEMMER: That's right.

(WEATHER BREAK)

HEMMER: Let's get back to Iraq right now. Word today of heavy fighting in the western town of Fallujah. That's where U.S. Marines are carrying out Operation Vigilant Resolve, an effort to snuff out the insurgent resistance hiding out in that town.

Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon this morning for more on this. Good morning there -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Bill.

Well, we know at this hour the fighting does continue in Fallujah. Apparently, insurgent forces are firing rocket-propelled grenades, mortars, that type of thing. U.S. Marines are now responding with ground forces and from the air.

Now, we should explain to our viewers it's very difficult due to the fighting to get pictures out of Fallujah. Some of what we are showing you is a first round of pictures that came out several hours ago as the Marines were preparing to move in -- about 1,300 troops, including Marines and Iraqi forces. But by all accounts, the fighting has been heavy.

Now reporting, the military, that five Marines have been killed in that area in the last 24 hours. But, of course, Bill, this is just one place in Iraq where the fighting goes on.

HEMMER: Let's talk this radical Muslim cleric, Muqtada Al-Sadr. There's an arrest warrant out for him. There's a report that he was hiding n a mosque in the town of Najaf. Earlier today, there was a report that said he'd left that mosque. Do you have any indication from your position there at the Pentagon as to when the U.S. military will take a move against him and apprehend him?

STARR: This is the delicate question of the moment. We have asked many sources, why don't you just move in, arrest the cleric and put his militia out of business? This is now the top concern by the Pentagon and by U.S. military officials, the strength of his movement, the number of followers he has.

Their concern about going in and arresting him essentially is that they may empower his followers, that he might become somewhat of a martyr to them and the opposition and the insurgency could only grow if the U.S. military made a strong move to go in and arrest him and begin to arrest his militia members.

So, we are told all of this will take some time. It will be very delicate. That there will be a lot of patience involved in going after him.

But in the meantime, of course, today, continued fighting in some areas by his followers. By all accounts, there has been fighting in Sadr City in Baghdad. Three U.S. soldiers killed in the last several hours in Baghdad. And in the south, in Nasiriyah, Italian troops are now clashing with insurgents in that city -- Bill.

HEMMER: Barbara, a follow-up to yesterday, this call possibly for more U.S. forces. What's the reaction of the Pentagon after that came out from General Abizaid in Baghdad?

STARR: Well, there's, of course, a couple of reactions -- one from the political side of the house here in the Pentagon, one from the military side. The bottom line, they say, is that if General Abizaid needs more troops, if General Sanchez in Baghdad says he wants more troops, that they will get them.

Officially the line is, we don't need any more troops. We have plenty. But General Abizaid is certainly putting a marker on the wall, asking his senior staff for the first time since this violence erupted to give him some options for the possibility of more troops. Quick reaction forces is what they are looking at -- troops that could move in very quickly to some of these hot spots and deal with these flare-ups of violence.

By all accounts, General Abizaid is particularly concerned about this radical cleric, Muqtada Al-Sadr. He is concerned that his movement could get some legs; that the violence would continue to spiral. It's that issue that has them much more concerned right now than Fallujah, actually -- Bill.

HEMMER: You mentioned Fallujah. You mentioned Baghdad. Also getting reports up to 60 Iraqis may have died in a fierce battle in Sadr City late on Monday night. We'll track that as well. Barbara Starr from the Pentagon watching many details of this story from there, thanks -- Heidi.

COLLINS: "Washington Post" reporter Anthony Shadid has been based in Iraq since days before the U.S. invasion. Just yesterday, he won a Pulitzer Prize for international reporting. The Pulitzer board commended him for his -- quote -- "extraordinary ability to capture at personal peril the voices and emotions of Iraqis."

Anthony Shadid is joining us now live from Baghdad to discuss the surge in Iraqi violence and the arrest warrant issued for Shiite cleric Muqtada Al-Sadr.

First of all, I want to tell you, congratulations, Anthony. Good job.

ANTHONY SHADID, "WASHINGTON POST": Thank you.

COLLINS: First question for you. Obviously, after all of the reporting that you've done from there, you are familiar with Muqtada Al-Sadr. An arrest warrant went out last fall, issued by an Iraqi judge. The coalition, though, just announced this yesterday. We've been hearing that he is either hiding out in a mosque or has moved on from there. How do you see this whole thing playing out? He's got an army, and a big one, vowing to stop his arrest. What's going to happen, in your eyes?

SHADID: It's a real turning point, I think, in the occupation, and it's a move that the U.S. military is going to have to take very carefully. The implications of Sadr's arrest could be explosive. I mean, we've seen what happened when his newspaper was closed and one of his aides was arrested. Those incidents led to the clashes that we witnessed over the weekend. The specter of Sadr's arrest, you can only imagine that there will be a more severe response by his followers.

You know, the U.S. faces a difficult situation here, because on one hand, they are running the risk of turning Sadr into a martyr, turning him into a symbol for his movement. And while his influence is far overshadowed by more senior clerics in Iraq, he has a devoted following, and that following will stand behind him and it may be energized by the idea of his arrest.

The other risk they're facing is that in cracking down on this militia, you are going to see civilian casualties. And we saw this pretty dramatically in Baghdad over the weekend. That has a way of alienating people, even people that aren't close to Muqtada Al-Sadr. And there's a real risk increasing those feelings as they days go on.

COLLINS: And to that point, Anthony, we're seeing that many mainstream Shiite leaders and older clerics have had problems in the past with Sadr and his followers. Are they going to be glad, is that too much of a stretch to say, when he is or if he becomes silenced? Are they going to be pretty happy about it?

SHADID: Well, I think there are a couple issues there. I think the more mainstream Shiite cleric leadership, they do find Sadr a difficult character. And they've kind of wanted the Americans to take care of the situation. They're reluctant to act on their own, because they understand the following that he does have. But they've been hoping the American military would do something about it. But there's another current that's also something to keep in mind. There is a history of arresting clerics. It happened under Saddam Hussein, and there's a little popular unease about cracking down on men of religion, basically. And again, the American military faces a risk in that. If they're going to go after people who are very much clergy, there may be sort of a backlash among people who associate that with what happened before the government fell.

COLLINS: Tell us a little about the relationship between Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani and Al-Sadr, if there is one at all. There are some reports out of Baghdad saying that al-Sistani has asked Sadr to put a stop to all of this violence. What can you tell us about that? I mean, al-Sistani is one of Iraq's clearly most powerful clerics.

SHADID: Right. Sistani's influence far overshadows Sadr's. Sistani is an extremely respected cleric and in his 70s.. He by far commands the greatest following in Iraq. Sadr has often in public deferred to him. He understands Sistani's authority, and he's been reluctant to come out and criticize him or attack him publicly.

Beneath the surface, though, you do see a pretty intense rivalry between the two figures, a different philosophy of what the clergy -- the role the clergy should play in Iraq, and also a different philosophy on what shapes the clergy is. Is it Arab or is it Iranian? Is it nationalists or is it more religious? It dates back to a rivalry between actually Sadr's father and Sistani. Sadr's father was a revered ayatollah who competed with Sistani for power. And that rivalry is kind of carried over into Sadr's movement that emerged after the war.

COLLINS: All this being said, Anthony, tell us, are the Iraqis ready for the handover date on June 30?

SHADID: I'm sorry. I didn't catch that question.

COLLINS: I just want to ask you from your point of view, on June 30, the handover date, President Bush very adamant about it, are the Iraqis ready for it?

SHADID: Well, we're seeing a real, I think, a turning point in the occupation right now. There's a political process that's still troubled that hasn't made a lot of headway on what kind of government is going to take over on June 30. Now, we're seeing the U.S. military facing what's basically a two-front war. They're fighting in Fallujah, a town that's predominantly Sunni Muslim, and we're also seeing fighting scattered across southern Iraq and Baghdad in a region that is Shiite Muslim and largely tolerant of the occupation for months after the war.

This is a very dangerous moment for the occupation, and the way they've navigated it, it's probably going to very much define what follows on June 30.

COLLINS: Anthony Shadid live from Baghdad this morning. Anthony, thanks so much. HEMMER: About 18 minutes now before the hour.

From the Red Planet, the first of the twin Mars rovers is wrapping up its mission there. The Spirit marked its 90th day on the Mars, completing all of those tasks successfully, we are told; this, even after a two and a half week computer memory problem sidelined it. The twin rover, Opportunity, is expected to work about 20 more days. Their work has been good.

COLLINS: Yes, it has.

Still to come this morning, a time-out for the Jayson Williams manslaughter trial. Will there be a mistrial? Jeffrey Toobin joins us with more on the latest dramatic developments in that case.

HEMMER: Also, a national title, second time in six years for Connecticut. The men did it last night. Can the women do it tonight? Ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Jurors in the manslaughter case against former NBA star Jayson Williams have a little unexpected time off this week. The judge in the case has ordered a one-week delay so that defense attorneys can examine new evidence they received from prosecutors over the weekend.

Here to tell us what it all means, senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.

Thank goodness you're here. You know, I've got to ask you right off the bat, how much is the defense going to benefit from the prosecution's misstep in all of this?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the point to emphasize at first is this is really an appalling mistake by the prosecutors. It is a basic rule of prosecution that when you have an expert testify, you give all of his data, all of his records, all of his notes to the defense, so that they can use it for cross- examination.

COLLINS: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

TOOBIN: Absolutely. And what happened was in this key issue in the case on examination of the gun, it turns out there were photographs and records that were not turned over. So, I think the judge did absolutely the right thing in delaying this trial for a week, letting the defense examine this new material. They can call new witnesses if they want. They can re-cross-examine the government expert. That's the fair way to do this to keep this trial from disintegrating entirely.

COLLINS: OK, that being said, though, there's something like 96- some-odd pages that they're going to have to go through with these documents. How long is that going to take? TOOBIN: Ninety-six pages in the context of a week is probably not that big of a deal. A week is plenty of time. And, you know, this trial has dragged on long enough. It's unfortunate that this had to be delayed at this point anyway, but it's the prosecutor's fault. It's not the judge's fault.

COLLINS: But delay is one thing; mistrial is another.

TOOBIN: Well, a mistrial would, you know, be a total disaster for the government. I think the judge wants to avoid that, if possible, as we saw in the Tyco case last week. Mistrials are an incredible waste of time and money and everyone -- and then nothing is settled. This, I think, is a good solution. It allows the defense to make use of this material in cross-examination or calling new witnesses, but it doesn't make the whole trial a waste.

COLLINS: Right. Well, what are the other options that the judge even has? I mean, it seems like this is clear cut.

TOOBIN: Well, what the defense wants is a mistrial. The defense says this was such an act of intentional prosecutorial misconduct of withholding these documents that they want the whole case thrown out now. They're going to ask for that at the end of the week. I think it's unlikely that the judge will grant it, given the fact that it's -- this trial isn't only about whether the prosecutors are good boys or bad boys. It's about justice for the system. It's about justice for the victim.

COLLINS: Right.

TOOBIN: It would be a little -- it would be a little, I think, excessive to throw the whole case out because of this.

COLLINS: I know I asked you the same question with Tyco. How does this happen?

TOOBIN: You know, it's a good question. I mean, I don't really know. I mean, it's -- there is miscommunication between experts and lawyers. Lawyers are overburdened. They forget things. They make mistakes. The defense is arguing, or probably will argue, that this was some sort of intentional misconduct. I've seen nothing to suggest this was intentional, that they were, you know, hiding these documents. But people make mistakes. It's hard for you to believe that.

COLLINS: It's very difficult.

TOOBIN: No one at CNN ever makes a mistake.

COLLINS: No, no.

TOOBIN: But it happens in other companies.

COLLINS: All right, we'll check back with you as this develops.

TOOBIN: All right. COLLINS: Jeffrey Toobin, thanks so much.

TOOBIN: Very good.

COLLINS: Bill.

HEMMER: All right, in a moment here, who had the better team when it counted? UConn and Georgia Tech for the national title. Back in a moment here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Obligatory March madness spilling into April and spilling now into the streets of Storrs, Connecticut. Police arrested more than a dozen last night. Fans started fires, turned over a few cars; that after the Huskies' national title.

The fans will welcome their champions back home today. The UConn men beat Georgia Tech handily last night to take the title.

Larry Smith drew the good straw for us. He's in San Antonio.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LARRY SMITH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For UConn, there was nowhere to go but down. The Huskies entered the season as the favorite to win it all, a burden of expectations that carried all the way to the national championship.

EMEKA OKAFOR, UCONN FORWARD CENTER: It just proved, you know, that we can accomplish what we put your minds to, you know, and that we are as good as everybody originally said we were. You know, we are as good as -- you know, we -- we're as good as -- we're as good as, you know, what we thought.

RASHAD ANDERSON, UCONN GUARD FORWARD: It's an unbelievable feeling, you know. A lot of people counted us out early in the year, saying we're the biggest disappointment in college basketball because we lost three games. We were 19-3. You know, a lot of sports writers told us we were the biggest disappointment, you know, in college basketball, but I see we proved all those guys wrong.

BEN GORDON, UCONN GUARD: You know, we just made history. You know, after we're long, dead and gone, you know, we're still going to have this national championship banner. You know, that's -- we just kind of immortalized ourselves.

SMITH: Emeka Okafor turned in one of his best performances of the year. In what's likely his last game as a collegian, the all- American scored a game-high 24 points, grabbed 15 rebounds in 38 minutes, good enough to be named the tournament's most outstanding player.

OKAFOR: I don't think it's hit me yet. You know, I'm kind of like, when's practice tomorrow? You know, it hasn't quite sunk in that, you know, the season is over. That we have done what we wanted to do, and, you know, I feel kind of -- I'm in awe still.

JOSH BOONE, UCONN FORWARD CENTER: Emeka just played so well. You know, he really just dominated the game tonight, and he really just, you know, showed why he's the best player in the country.

SMITH (on camera): With the title game victory, UConn avenges its 16-point loss to Georgia Tech back in November. And on the day when Huskies Coach Jim Calhoun learned he would not enter the Hall of Fame in 2004, he gets something just as sweet -- a second national championship.

Larry Smith, CNN, San Antonio, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: Larry, thanks for that.

UConn is hoping to make it a clean sweep. Later tonight, the UConn women take on the University of Tennessee. They'll fight out for the national title. And if they win, that's going to be the absolute title-town, the University of Connecticut.

COLLINS: Yes.

HEMMER: Their coach, Jim Calhoun, went to the Hall of Fame yesterday...

COLLINS: Do you think they'll calm down in the streets, though?

(CROSSTALK)

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: I'll tell you something, though. Tennessee is no walk in the park. That will be a hell of a game. It will probably closer than the men's title game last night.

HEMMER: It could be. It's in New Orleans, by the way.

CAFFERTY: The big easy. It's where my daughter, Leigh (ph), is a student at Tulane University.

HEMMER: Go (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

CAFFERTY: Yes (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

What a great question. You ask a question that has Ted Kennedy and the war in Iraq in it, and in 25 minutes we got 500 letters.

COLLINS: No kidding.

CAFFERTY: Twenty-five -- yes, it's great. Senator Kennedy of Massachusetts made this blistering speech yesterday to a Washington think tank. He attacked President Bush and compared Iraq to Vietnam. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Iraq is George Bush's Vietnam, and this country needs a new president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAFFERTY: Now, in addition, Senator Kennedy said that the Bush administration has a credibility problem. Is this a case of the pot calling the kettle black? This reporter would like to know.

That's not the question, though. The question is: Do you agree with Senator Kennedy that Iraq is President Bush's Vietnam?

"I think Senator Kennedy," writes Douglas in Burney, California, "is way off base trying to portray Iraq as another Vietnam. As long as President Bush has the military fighting to win -- unlike the Lilly-liberal politicians who directed the war in Vietnam -- a way guaranteed to have us lose. Iraq will never be another Vietnam, no matter how desperately liberals want it to be."

Natalie in Mount Lookout, West Virginia: "Almost. Iraq is America's new Vietnam. This war may or may not have been George Bush and Dick Cheney's personal little war, but it's the American taxpayer footing the bill and the American GI sacrificing the blood."

Gus in Vienna, Virginia writes: "When has Ted Kennedy said anything that has any credence?"

David in Long Beach, California: "Yes, I agree with Kennedy's general assessment. Bush's Vietnam, Bush's Waterloo, Bush's Antietam -- all good analogies. History will not be kind to this man."

And Joy in Iowa writes: "I can say a lot of things about Senator Kennedy, but I was taught if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. Senator Kennedy should retire. Nothing else is worth saying about him."

AM@CNN.com. I am loving this. Some good stuff.

HEMMER: Wow! We're going to pick up (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Mitch McConnell, a Republican senator, is our guest in a moment. He had some strong comments directed back toward Senator Kennedy after these comments came out yesterday. He called them vicious, so we'll get this thoughts today, a day later.

CAFFERTY: You wonder how much of this the senator from Massachusetts would be doing if the other senator from Massachusetts, who is running for president, didn't want him out there doing it.

HEMMER: They've been partners for a long time, going back to the early '70s when John Kerry came home from Vietnam.

Quick correction: Jim Calhoun missed the Hall of Fame yesterday by one vote. He did not get in on the same day...

CAFFERTY: Was this an error? Are you correcting an error you made?

HEMMER: Yes, I am, as a matter of fact. I am saying that I was wrong.

COLLINS: It's so big of you.

CAFFERTY: He missed by one vote.

HEMMER: One vote.

CAFFERTY: So, can he get -- do they work it the same way? Will he get in next time? Or do they only get one shot.

HEMMER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I do not know this.

COLLINS: Go, Hemmer.

CAFFERTY: Talk English. This is -- you're in America. The title of the program is "AMERICAN MORNING." Don't be doing that bilingual stuff with me, because I don't understand any of it.

HEMMER: Are you finished? I love the guy.

In a moment here, fighting on a number of fronts in Iraq. Coalition forces have their hands full yet again today. Back to Baghdad. We will update you on what's happening in Sadr City, what's happening in Fallujah and more, right after this.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.


Aired April 6, 2004 - 07:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: In just a few minutes, we'll be joined by Pulitzer Prize winning reporter Anthony Shadid to talk and look at the options.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Also, a lot of questions on this Jayson Williams case. The trial is now suspended for a week, maybe longer. Jeff Toobin, waiting in the wings here of our very studio, telling us why the judge made the order and the chances of a mistrial.

COLLINS: Another mistrial, possibly.

HEMMER: We'll get to that in a moment here.

COLLINS: Yes, we will. For now, though, the news this morning.

The U.S. administrator in Iraq, Ambassador Paul Bremer, says coalition troops will pursue Shiite cleric Muqtada Al-Sadr. Bremer says the cleric has a -- quote -- "unacceptable vision of Iraq."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL BREMER, U.S. ADMINISTRATOR IN IRAQ: We intend to continue after him, and we will bring him in justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Aides say Bremer has canceled a trip to Washington, D.C. due to the situation in Iraq. He was scheduled to meet with senators on Capitol Hill today.

Emergency crews are searching for dozens of people missing after a series of flash floods along the Mexico-Texas border. More than 30 people have died. About 100 homes have been damaged, and thousands of people are living in makeshift shelters. Officials are warning, a new wave of rain could trigger more flooding.

Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry holds a rally in Cincinnati today. This will be Kerry's fourth campaign visit to Ohio. Aides say Kerry's speech will focus on the economy and his plan to create 10 million new jobs in America.

President Bush at Busch Stadium in Saint Louis for opening day. The president threw out the ceremonial first pitch and then watched the first five innings from a private box. The Cards eventually lost to the Brewers 8-6.

In Houston, Barry Bonds hit his 659th homerun. That's right, 6- 5-9. That puts him only one behind his godfather, Willie Mays. The giants rallied to beat the Astros 5-4.

You've seen the running of the bulls in Spain, but now New Zealand has a running of the sheep. Of course, they do. As part of the national sheep sheering championships, they paraded 2,000 sheep through town, but the sheep panicked and went on an unplanned romp through the streets until residents could herd them back on course. And that's one thing you don't want, sheep on a romp through the streets.

HEMMER: A lot of sheep in that country.

COLLINS: Yes.

HEMMER: They have 60 million sheep in New Zealand and only like 3 million people.

COLLINS: Yes.

HEMMER: So, clearly they outnumber the folks living there.

COLLINS: And now they're all over the place.

HEMMER: That's right.

(WEATHER BREAK)

HEMMER: Let's get back to Iraq right now. Word today of heavy fighting in the western town of Fallujah. That's where U.S. Marines are carrying out Operation Vigilant Resolve, an effort to snuff out the insurgent resistance hiding out in that town.

Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon this morning for more on this. Good morning there -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Bill.

Well, we know at this hour the fighting does continue in Fallujah. Apparently, insurgent forces are firing rocket-propelled grenades, mortars, that type of thing. U.S. Marines are now responding with ground forces and from the air.

Now, we should explain to our viewers it's very difficult due to the fighting to get pictures out of Fallujah. Some of what we are showing you is a first round of pictures that came out several hours ago as the Marines were preparing to move in -- about 1,300 troops, including Marines and Iraqi forces. But by all accounts, the fighting has been heavy.

Now reporting, the military, that five Marines have been killed in that area in the last 24 hours. But, of course, Bill, this is just one place in Iraq where the fighting goes on.

HEMMER: Let's talk this radical Muslim cleric, Muqtada Al-Sadr. There's an arrest warrant out for him. There's a report that he was hiding n a mosque in the town of Najaf. Earlier today, there was a report that said he'd left that mosque. Do you have any indication from your position there at the Pentagon as to when the U.S. military will take a move against him and apprehend him?

STARR: This is the delicate question of the moment. We have asked many sources, why don't you just move in, arrest the cleric and put his militia out of business? This is now the top concern by the Pentagon and by U.S. military officials, the strength of his movement, the number of followers he has.

Their concern about going in and arresting him essentially is that they may empower his followers, that he might become somewhat of a martyr to them and the opposition and the insurgency could only grow if the U.S. military made a strong move to go in and arrest him and begin to arrest his militia members.

So, we are told all of this will take some time. It will be very delicate. That there will be a lot of patience involved in going after him.

But in the meantime, of course, today, continued fighting in some areas by his followers. By all accounts, there has been fighting in Sadr City in Baghdad. Three U.S. soldiers killed in the last several hours in Baghdad. And in the south, in Nasiriyah, Italian troops are now clashing with insurgents in that city -- Bill.

HEMMER: Barbara, a follow-up to yesterday, this call possibly for more U.S. forces. What's the reaction of the Pentagon after that came out from General Abizaid in Baghdad?

STARR: Well, there's, of course, a couple of reactions -- one from the political side of the house here in the Pentagon, one from the military side. The bottom line, they say, is that if General Abizaid needs more troops, if General Sanchez in Baghdad says he wants more troops, that they will get them.

Officially the line is, we don't need any more troops. We have plenty. But General Abizaid is certainly putting a marker on the wall, asking his senior staff for the first time since this violence erupted to give him some options for the possibility of more troops. Quick reaction forces is what they are looking at -- troops that could move in very quickly to some of these hot spots and deal with these flare-ups of violence.

By all accounts, General Abizaid is particularly concerned about this radical cleric, Muqtada Al-Sadr. He is concerned that his movement could get some legs; that the violence would continue to spiral. It's that issue that has them much more concerned right now than Fallujah, actually -- Bill.

HEMMER: You mentioned Fallujah. You mentioned Baghdad. Also getting reports up to 60 Iraqis may have died in a fierce battle in Sadr City late on Monday night. We'll track that as well. Barbara Starr from the Pentagon watching many details of this story from there, thanks -- Heidi.

COLLINS: "Washington Post" reporter Anthony Shadid has been based in Iraq since days before the U.S. invasion. Just yesterday, he won a Pulitzer Prize for international reporting. The Pulitzer board commended him for his -- quote -- "extraordinary ability to capture at personal peril the voices and emotions of Iraqis."

Anthony Shadid is joining us now live from Baghdad to discuss the surge in Iraqi violence and the arrest warrant issued for Shiite cleric Muqtada Al-Sadr.

First of all, I want to tell you, congratulations, Anthony. Good job.

ANTHONY SHADID, "WASHINGTON POST": Thank you.

COLLINS: First question for you. Obviously, after all of the reporting that you've done from there, you are familiar with Muqtada Al-Sadr. An arrest warrant went out last fall, issued by an Iraqi judge. The coalition, though, just announced this yesterday. We've been hearing that he is either hiding out in a mosque or has moved on from there. How do you see this whole thing playing out? He's got an army, and a big one, vowing to stop his arrest. What's going to happen, in your eyes?

SHADID: It's a real turning point, I think, in the occupation, and it's a move that the U.S. military is going to have to take very carefully. The implications of Sadr's arrest could be explosive. I mean, we've seen what happened when his newspaper was closed and one of his aides was arrested. Those incidents led to the clashes that we witnessed over the weekend. The specter of Sadr's arrest, you can only imagine that there will be a more severe response by his followers.

You know, the U.S. faces a difficult situation here, because on one hand, they are running the risk of turning Sadr into a martyr, turning him into a symbol for his movement. And while his influence is far overshadowed by more senior clerics in Iraq, he has a devoted following, and that following will stand behind him and it may be energized by the idea of his arrest.

The other risk they're facing is that in cracking down on this militia, you are going to see civilian casualties. And we saw this pretty dramatically in Baghdad over the weekend. That has a way of alienating people, even people that aren't close to Muqtada Al-Sadr. And there's a real risk increasing those feelings as they days go on.

COLLINS: And to that point, Anthony, we're seeing that many mainstream Shiite leaders and older clerics have had problems in the past with Sadr and his followers. Are they going to be glad, is that too much of a stretch to say, when he is or if he becomes silenced? Are they going to be pretty happy about it?

SHADID: Well, I think there are a couple issues there. I think the more mainstream Shiite cleric leadership, they do find Sadr a difficult character. And they've kind of wanted the Americans to take care of the situation. They're reluctant to act on their own, because they understand the following that he does have. But they've been hoping the American military would do something about it. But there's another current that's also something to keep in mind. There is a history of arresting clerics. It happened under Saddam Hussein, and there's a little popular unease about cracking down on men of religion, basically. And again, the American military faces a risk in that. If they're going to go after people who are very much clergy, there may be sort of a backlash among people who associate that with what happened before the government fell.

COLLINS: Tell us a little about the relationship between Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani and Al-Sadr, if there is one at all. There are some reports out of Baghdad saying that al-Sistani has asked Sadr to put a stop to all of this violence. What can you tell us about that? I mean, al-Sistani is one of Iraq's clearly most powerful clerics.

SHADID: Right. Sistani's influence far overshadows Sadr's. Sistani is an extremely respected cleric and in his 70s.. He by far commands the greatest following in Iraq. Sadr has often in public deferred to him. He understands Sistani's authority, and he's been reluctant to come out and criticize him or attack him publicly.

Beneath the surface, though, you do see a pretty intense rivalry between the two figures, a different philosophy of what the clergy -- the role the clergy should play in Iraq, and also a different philosophy on what shapes the clergy is. Is it Arab or is it Iranian? Is it nationalists or is it more religious? It dates back to a rivalry between actually Sadr's father and Sistani. Sadr's father was a revered ayatollah who competed with Sistani for power. And that rivalry is kind of carried over into Sadr's movement that emerged after the war.

COLLINS: All this being said, Anthony, tell us, are the Iraqis ready for the handover date on June 30?

SHADID: I'm sorry. I didn't catch that question.

COLLINS: I just want to ask you from your point of view, on June 30, the handover date, President Bush very adamant about it, are the Iraqis ready for it?

SHADID: Well, we're seeing a real, I think, a turning point in the occupation right now. There's a political process that's still troubled that hasn't made a lot of headway on what kind of government is going to take over on June 30. Now, we're seeing the U.S. military facing what's basically a two-front war. They're fighting in Fallujah, a town that's predominantly Sunni Muslim, and we're also seeing fighting scattered across southern Iraq and Baghdad in a region that is Shiite Muslim and largely tolerant of the occupation for months after the war.

This is a very dangerous moment for the occupation, and the way they've navigated it, it's probably going to very much define what follows on June 30.

COLLINS: Anthony Shadid live from Baghdad this morning. Anthony, thanks so much. HEMMER: About 18 minutes now before the hour.

From the Red Planet, the first of the twin Mars rovers is wrapping up its mission there. The Spirit marked its 90th day on the Mars, completing all of those tasks successfully, we are told; this, even after a two and a half week computer memory problem sidelined it. The twin rover, Opportunity, is expected to work about 20 more days. Their work has been good.

COLLINS: Yes, it has.

Still to come this morning, a time-out for the Jayson Williams manslaughter trial. Will there be a mistrial? Jeffrey Toobin joins us with more on the latest dramatic developments in that case.

HEMMER: Also, a national title, second time in six years for Connecticut. The men did it last night. Can the women do it tonight? Ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Jurors in the manslaughter case against former NBA star Jayson Williams have a little unexpected time off this week. The judge in the case has ordered a one-week delay so that defense attorneys can examine new evidence they received from prosecutors over the weekend.

Here to tell us what it all means, senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.

Thank goodness you're here. You know, I've got to ask you right off the bat, how much is the defense going to benefit from the prosecution's misstep in all of this?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the point to emphasize at first is this is really an appalling mistake by the prosecutors. It is a basic rule of prosecution that when you have an expert testify, you give all of his data, all of his records, all of his notes to the defense, so that they can use it for cross- examination.

COLLINS: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

TOOBIN: Absolutely. And what happened was in this key issue in the case on examination of the gun, it turns out there were photographs and records that were not turned over. So, I think the judge did absolutely the right thing in delaying this trial for a week, letting the defense examine this new material. They can call new witnesses if they want. They can re-cross-examine the government expert. That's the fair way to do this to keep this trial from disintegrating entirely.

COLLINS: OK, that being said, though, there's something like 96- some-odd pages that they're going to have to go through with these documents. How long is that going to take? TOOBIN: Ninety-six pages in the context of a week is probably not that big of a deal. A week is plenty of time. And, you know, this trial has dragged on long enough. It's unfortunate that this had to be delayed at this point anyway, but it's the prosecutor's fault. It's not the judge's fault.

COLLINS: But delay is one thing; mistrial is another.

TOOBIN: Well, a mistrial would, you know, be a total disaster for the government. I think the judge wants to avoid that, if possible, as we saw in the Tyco case last week. Mistrials are an incredible waste of time and money and everyone -- and then nothing is settled. This, I think, is a good solution. It allows the defense to make use of this material in cross-examination or calling new witnesses, but it doesn't make the whole trial a waste.

COLLINS: Right. Well, what are the other options that the judge even has? I mean, it seems like this is clear cut.

TOOBIN: Well, what the defense wants is a mistrial. The defense says this was such an act of intentional prosecutorial misconduct of withholding these documents that they want the whole case thrown out now. They're going to ask for that at the end of the week. I think it's unlikely that the judge will grant it, given the fact that it's -- this trial isn't only about whether the prosecutors are good boys or bad boys. It's about justice for the system. It's about justice for the victim.

COLLINS: Right.

TOOBIN: It would be a little -- it would be a little, I think, excessive to throw the whole case out because of this.

COLLINS: I know I asked you the same question with Tyco. How does this happen?

TOOBIN: You know, it's a good question. I mean, I don't really know. I mean, it's -- there is miscommunication between experts and lawyers. Lawyers are overburdened. They forget things. They make mistakes. The defense is arguing, or probably will argue, that this was some sort of intentional misconduct. I've seen nothing to suggest this was intentional, that they were, you know, hiding these documents. But people make mistakes. It's hard for you to believe that.

COLLINS: It's very difficult.

TOOBIN: No one at CNN ever makes a mistake.

COLLINS: No, no.

TOOBIN: But it happens in other companies.

COLLINS: All right, we'll check back with you as this develops.

TOOBIN: All right. COLLINS: Jeffrey Toobin, thanks so much.

TOOBIN: Very good.

COLLINS: Bill.

HEMMER: All right, in a moment here, who had the better team when it counted? UConn and Georgia Tech for the national title. Back in a moment here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Obligatory March madness spilling into April and spilling now into the streets of Storrs, Connecticut. Police arrested more than a dozen last night. Fans started fires, turned over a few cars; that after the Huskies' national title.

The fans will welcome their champions back home today. The UConn men beat Georgia Tech handily last night to take the title.

Larry Smith drew the good straw for us. He's in San Antonio.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LARRY SMITH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For UConn, there was nowhere to go but down. The Huskies entered the season as the favorite to win it all, a burden of expectations that carried all the way to the national championship.

EMEKA OKAFOR, UCONN FORWARD CENTER: It just proved, you know, that we can accomplish what we put your minds to, you know, and that we are as good as everybody originally said we were. You know, we are as good as -- you know, we -- we're as good as -- we're as good as, you know, what we thought.

RASHAD ANDERSON, UCONN GUARD FORWARD: It's an unbelievable feeling, you know. A lot of people counted us out early in the year, saying we're the biggest disappointment in college basketball because we lost three games. We were 19-3. You know, a lot of sports writers told us we were the biggest disappointment, you know, in college basketball, but I see we proved all those guys wrong.

BEN GORDON, UCONN GUARD: You know, we just made history. You know, after we're long, dead and gone, you know, we're still going to have this national championship banner. You know, that's -- we just kind of immortalized ourselves.

SMITH: Emeka Okafor turned in one of his best performances of the year. In what's likely his last game as a collegian, the all- American scored a game-high 24 points, grabbed 15 rebounds in 38 minutes, good enough to be named the tournament's most outstanding player.

OKAFOR: I don't think it's hit me yet. You know, I'm kind of like, when's practice tomorrow? You know, it hasn't quite sunk in that, you know, the season is over. That we have done what we wanted to do, and, you know, I feel kind of -- I'm in awe still.

JOSH BOONE, UCONN FORWARD CENTER: Emeka just played so well. You know, he really just dominated the game tonight, and he really just, you know, showed why he's the best player in the country.

SMITH (on camera): With the title game victory, UConn avenges its 16-point loss to Georgia Tech back in November. And on the day when Huskies Coach Jim Calhoun learned he would not enter the Hall of Fame in 2004, he gets something just as sweet -- a second national championship.

Larry Smith, CNN, San Antonio, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: Larry, thanks for that.

UConn is hoping to make it a clean sweep. Later tonight, the UConn women take on the University of Tennessee. They'll fight out for the national title. And if they win, that's going to be the absolute title-town, the University of Connecticut.

COLLINS: Yes.

HEMMER: Their coach, Jim Calhoun, went to the Hall of Fame yesterday...

COLLINS: Do you think they'll calm down in the streets, though?

(CROSSTALK)

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: I'll tell you something, though. Tennessee is no walk in the park. That will be a hell of a game. It will probably closer than the men's title game last night.

HEMMER: It could be. It's in New Orleans, by the way.

CAFFERTY: The big easy. It's where my daughter, Leigh (ph), is a student at Tulane University.

HEMMER: Go (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

CAFFERTY: Yes (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

What a great question. You ask a question that has Ted Kennedy and the war in Iraq in it, and in 25 minutes we got 500 letters.

COLLINS: No kidding.

CAFFERTY: Twenty-five -- yes, it's great. Senator Kennedy of Massachusetts made this blistering speech yesterday to a Washington think tank. He attacked President Bush and compared Iraq to Vietnam. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Iraq is George Bush's Vietnam, and this country needs a new president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAFFERTY: Now, in addition, Senator Kennedy said that the Bush administration has a credibility problem. Is this a case of the pot calling the kettle black? This reporter would like to know.

That's not the question, though. The question is: Do you agree with Senator Kennedy that Iraq is President Bush's Vietnam?

"I think Senator Kennedy," writes Douglas in Burney, California, "is way off base trying to portray Iraq as another Vietnam. As long as President Bush has the military fighting to win -- unlike the Lilly-liberal politicians who directed the war in Vietnam -- a way guaranteed to have us lose. Iraq will never be another Vietnam, no matter how desperately liberals want it to be."

Natalie in Mount Lookout, West Virginia: "Almost. Iraq is America's new Vietnam. This war may or may not have been George Bush and Dick Cheney's personal little war, but it's the American taxpayer footing the bill and the American GI sacrificing the blood."

Gus in Vienna, Virginia writes: "When has Ted Kennedy said anything that has any credence?"

David in Long Beach, California: "Yes, I agree with Kennedy's general assessment. Bush's Vietnam, Bush's Waterloo, Bush's Antietam -- all good analogies. History will not be kind to this man."

And Joy in Iowa writes: "I can say a lot of things about Senator Kennedy, but I was taught if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. Senator Kennedy should retire. Nothing else is worth saying about him."

AM@CNN.com. I am loving this. Some good stuff.

HEMMER: Wow! We're going to pick up (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Mitch McConnell, a Republican senator, is our guest in a moment. He had some strong comments directed back toward Senator Kennedy after these comments came out yesterday. He called them vicious, so we'll get this thoughts today, a day later.

CAFFERTY: You wonder how much of this the senator from Massachusetts would be doing if the other senator from Massachusetts, who is running for president, didn't want him out there doing it.

HEMMER: They've been partners for a long time, going back to the early '70s when John Kerry came home from Vietnam.

Quick correction: Jim Calhoun missed the Hall of Fame yesterday by one vote. He did not get in on the same day...

CAFFERTY: Was this an error? Are you correcting an error you made?

HEMMER: Yes, I am, as a matter of fact. I am saying that I was wrong.

COLLINS: It's so big of you.

CAFFERTY: He missed by one vote.

HEMMER: One vote.

CAFFERTY: So, can he get -- do they work it the same way? Will he get in next time? Or do they only get one shot.

HEMMER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I do not know this.

COLLINS: Go, Hemmer.

CAFFERTY: Talk English. This is -- you're in America. The title of the program is "AMERICAN MORNING." Don't be doing that bilingual stuff with me, because I don't understand any of it.

HEMMER: Are you finished? I love the guy.

In a moment here, fighting on a number of fronts in Iraq. Coalition forces have their hands full yet again today. Back to Baghdad. We will update you on what's happening in Sadr City, what's happening in Fallujah and more, right after this.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.