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American Morning

Fight for Iraq; Rice's Testimony in 9/11 Investigation; Stern Punishment

Aired April 09, 2004 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome back, everybody. It is exactly half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING. Anderson Cooper is filling in for Bill Hemmer, who has the day off today. Lucky Bill.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, what's he doing?

O'BRIEN: Lucky you, too...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Maybe he's parasailing.

O'BRIEN: No. You know, his family is in town for Good Friday.

COOPER: Oh, really? OK.

O'BRIEN: I hope you don't mind me sharing some of your holiday plans, Bill. Oops, maybe I shouldn't have said that.

Anyway, there are a bunch of stories, of course, that we are following this morning, especially in Iraq.

COOPER: Yes, let's take a look at some of our top ones.

We're looking at a very complex U.S. military strategy in Iraq, getting perspective from retired Air Force General George Harrison on that.

Also, we're going to get into questions about whether U.S. troops are spread too thin, and what troops will actually have to do to succeed against insurgents.

O'BRIEN: Also this morning, we're going to talk with a columnist from "Vanity Fair" about Clear Channel's decision to dump Howard Stern. What's next for the shock jock? And what's next for other stations, too, that could risk similar fines? We'll ask him that question.

COOPER: And that's what Jack Cafferty is focusing on today.

A lot ahead. Let's take a look at our top stories right now.

Japan's prime minister is calling threats to kill three Japanese hostages being held in Iraq cowardly. Video of three Japanese nationals showed them being held hostage at gunpoint; knifepoint at one point. A group calling itself the Mujahideen Squadrons is demanding that Japan pull its troops out of Iraq. Japan's government says it's standing by its decision not to withdraw its non-combat personnel.

Here in the U.S., the Pension Relief Bill is on its way to President Bush's desk. The Senate overwhelmingly passed the legislation by a vote of 78-19. It could save employers, who sponsor pension plans, an estimated $80 billion over the next two years. The legislation would change how companies calculate their pension contributions to reflect current interest rates.

On a sports note, the youngest pro on the green is out in front while there's more misery at the Masters tournament for Tiger Woods. At 23, Justin Rose takes the early lead. He fired at five under par 67 Thursday in the first round. Meanwhile, Tiger Woods struggled through a frustrating 14 holes, going 4 -- yes, he does look frustrated -- going 4 over par before the sun set. Now, this is the second straight Masters in which Woods appears to be struggling to make the cut.

And in Farmington, Utah, residents are still cleaning up after a massive mudslide. The Forest Service spent $40,000 shoring up the hillside following last summer's wildfires, but the soil was already soaked from melting snow. Add to that two inches of rain that fell during a two-hour period earlier this week. The mud flooded garages, basements and blanketed yards.

O'BRIEN: That's a mess. I covered mudslides when I was working in California, and it is so difficult to get that stuff out of your house.

COOPER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: People trying to dig it out of their basement completely.

(WEATHER BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Well, U.S. Marines and their Iraqi allies have halted offensive action in the city of Fallujah. Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt tells CNN he expects the meeting to take place today between the Iraqi Governing Council members and leaders of the Sunni Muslim insurgency in the city.

Joining us with insights this morning on the situation in Iraq is retired U.S. Air Force General George Harrison.

Nice to see you, sir. Thanks for being with us.

It's good to be here.

O'BRIEN: Let's first start by talking about this cease-fire in Fallujah. There were reports that it was on, and then it was off. And, in fact, we got confirmation from Brigadier General Kimmitt that, in fact, it was still on.

In spite of some reports that we got about attacks on a humanitarian vehicle in that area, do you think that the cease-fire can hold or at least through this meeting that is expected to happen today?

GEN. GEORGE HARRISON, U.S. AIR FORCE, (RETIRED): Well, I think it's in the interest of all of the parties for it to hold. It's not a formal cease-fire, as you know. It's simply a cessation of U.S. activities.

So, what's happening is that the U.S. forces -- or the coalition forces in general are giving the Iraqis a chance to kind of clean up, regroup. The non-participants are being given a chance to work out their problems, and some humanitarian aid, hopefully, will come into the area.

So, I think this is a good idea overall, and it enhances the position of the coalition with respect to the Iraqi people in general.

O'BRIEN: At the same time, when you look at what's happening in Kut, you have insurgents who are loyal to the Sunni cleric, Muqtada al-Sadr, who are basically holed up and controlling a lot of that area.

HARRISON: That's right.

O'BRIEN: How difficult is it going to be for the U.S. military -- and the coalition forces, frankly -- to fight battles in both areas, even with this unofficial cease-fire in Fallujah that you've talked about?

HARRISON: Well, I think it's going to be very difficult, and obviously the coalition forces are having to figure out where to put the weight of their efforts so that they can get the right kind of job done.

This is a very tough job. As they move into the cities, we see a picture of an armored vehicle, a tank, moving along. You can't do this job with tanks. It has to be done by dismounted infantry, folks that are going into the houses, finding the weapons, finding the people who are using the weapons. And it's really a dirty, hard, tough job for all of the troops that are involved.

O'BRIEN: And it's certainly a dangerous job as well. Tribal leaders, we are hearing, in Kut say that they are planning to hand over control to the U.S. military, because they are so disgusted by what they have seen by some of these insurgents. And yet, of course, the question there is, well, it doesn't sound like they actually have control of the city to be handing it over to anybody, does it?

HARRISON: Well, that's probably true. But I think as they withdraw themselves as a controlling faction, I think we'll see considerably more activity by the U.S. that will stabilize the situation. And, of course, the first thing that has to be done to work on this problem is to get the security issue resolved so that the U.S. forces, or the coalition forces in general, can provide an environment of security that lets this peace process move forward and lets the Iraqis begin to govern themselves. O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the taking of hostages. We've heard, of course, about these three Japanese civilians who are now being held hostage. Do you expect that this could, in fact, drive a wedge between the U.S. and some of its coalition partners?

HARRISON: Well, certainly it makes things more difficult, but I'm encouraged by the response of Japan. Naturally, we all feel for the hostages and for their families, but we can't -- the Japanese have decided that they cannot let this hostage situation interfere with what they see as the larger purpose, which is to bring stability to a very important region.

O'BRIEN: All right. Well, General, thank you very much for being with us this morning. We certainly appreciate it. General George Harrison, retired, joining us this morning. Thanks, sir.

HARRISON: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Anderson.

COOPER: Soledad, the panel investigating what led up to September 11, 2001 wants to know more about August 6, the month before. That is the date that President Bush received a report titled "bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the United States." National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice was questioned yesterday repeatedly about that presidential daily brief.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TIM ROEMER, 9/11 COMMISSION MEMBER: The threat reporting saying the United States is going to be attacked should trigger the principals getting together...

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: But with all...

ROEMER: ... to say we're going...

RICE: Mr. Roemer -- Mr. Roemer, let's be very clear.

ROEMER: ... I would think.

RICE: The PDB does not say the United States is going to be attacked. It says bin Laden would like to attack the United States. I don't think you frankly had to have that report to know that bin Laden would like to attack the United States.

ROEMER: So, why aren't you doing...

RICE: The threat...

ROEMER: ... something about that...

RICE: The threat reporting...

ROEMER: ... earlier than August 6?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: (AUDIO GAP) you just heard questioning Ms. Rice if he was generally satisfied with her testimony yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROEMER: She was cool. She was statesman-like. She was professional and helpful. But she also left some more questions and some holes in her testimony. What happened to this direction from Dr. Rice for the FBI to look for some type of activity in our country and nothing happened. Mr. Prikard (ph), the acting director of the FBI, can't seem to recollect any kind of direction. The special agents in charge in the field can't remember doing anything. Why wasn't this decision executed? Was it made?

And with respect to the silver bullet theory that Dr. Rice said, I agree there's no silver bullet. But you've got to load the bullets in the chamber and fire at al Qaeda while you are doing a bottom-up review. Why not put the predator out there? Why not give aid to the Northern Alliance? Why not attack al Qaeda for the USS Cole? They didn't do that. Why not?

COOPER: Richard Clarke had said previously that all of the branches of the government needed to be shaken. Today, Dr. Rice said she was shaking the entire tree. But is there any evidence of that that you have found?

ROEMER: I don't know that the whole tree was being shaken vigorously, Anderson. I think that maybe some limbs were, but I think there are also some limbs out there that may not have been touched.

COOPER: Well, Condoleezza Rice kept talking about systematic communications problems between the FBI and CIA, kind of indicating that that's where a lot of the fault may kind of lie with those communications problems. (A), do those problems still exist? And, (b), is that an acceptable explanation?

ROEMER: When you see those kinds of problems and you are coming into a new administration -- Secretary Armitage in his interview with the 9/11 Commission gave us some good advice. He said 30 days in, you own the policy; meaning, 30 days into the new administration those policies are yours.

I think many people have known for years this wedge between the CIA and the FBI. It needs systemic reform. Why didn't we approach that issue? We cannot have that in the future. I don't think that that's been entirely fixed yet.

COOPER: After Dr. Rice's testimony when the cameras were not present, you did talk to former President Clinton, I think, for some three hours or plus. What can you say about that testimony? I know there's a lot you can't say. What can you tell us?

ROEMER: Well, it was certainly three hours plus, closer to four hours. The former president was very helpful, very effusive in recommending to us some major policies that we might look at to move forward toward a new paradigm against this jihadist threat. He was very open to some of our tough questions toward him as to what the Clinton administration did right and wrong. Some of us pressed him very hard on the USS Cole, or what they may have done right in terms of striking back after the African bombings in 1998.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: That was Congressman Timothy Roemer, a 9/11 Commission member and a former congressman, Tim Roemer.

We're going to get an update on how close the White House is to declassifying that August memo when Jeanne Meserve joins us in about 20 minutes.

O'BRIEN: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, on again/off again clashes in Fallujah. This morning, we've got the very latest from Iraq.

COOPER: And what does Howard Stern have to say about being kicked off the air by a radio giant? We're going to talk about that. Stay ahead with us on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Government regulators have imposed a fine for indecency on Clear Channel Communications because of the Howard Stern radio program. Clear Channel immediately dropped the show yesterday. Stern called the nearly $500,000 fine by the Federal Communications Commission a shocking interference in free speech.

Michael Wolff of "Vanity Fair" magazine is here with us now to talk about it.

Michael, good to see you this morning.

MICHAEL WOLFF, COLUMNIST, "VANITY FAIR": Nice to see you.

COOPER: For Clear Channel, they dropped him from the six stations that he was run on. He's run on a lot more stations by Infinity Broadcasting. But for Clear Channel, it basically boiled down to money. It was a business decision, yes?

WOLFF: Well, I think it's even larger than that. Clear Channel is now under enormous pressure by the government in terms of media boogiemen, which there are a lot in this country. Clear Channel is right up there. And they're facing all kinds of government regulation or, in fact, what would be re-regulation.

So, they're, I think, at this point, among their other considerations, they are willing to do anything to try to keep the FCC and Congress happy.

COOPER: And yet, Viacom, which is the parent company of Infinity Broadcasting which runs Howard Stern on numerous stations...

WOLFF: Right, and which employs Howard Stern. COOPER: Right. They are standing by him. They say -- and I guess they feel that the money is still not -- I guess they won't get fined enough?

WOLFF: Well, Howard Stern just from -- Howard Stern is really an Infinity and Viacom property. It is -- in many ways, he is one of the pillars of the company.

COOPER: A huge amount of money, $100 million a year.

WOLFF: When, in fact, Infinity took over CBS, Howard Stern would say I bought CBS, and in many ways that's true. So, there is just no way Viacom is going to, in any sense, sacrifice Howard Stern.

It's -- for Clear Channel, it's a relatively insignificant move on their part. It means, actually, that they just waited. Looked at it on the balance sheet. OK, we need the FCC to look kindly on us more than we need the revenue from Howard Stern. And they dusted off their hands, and that was it.

COOPER: Howard Stern has called this a witch hunt. Do you see this as a witch hunt?

WOLFF: I see it as a publicity hunt. Everybody is...

COOPER: By everyone?

WOLFF: Everybody.

COOPER: Politicians, everyone.

WOLFF: Politicians, media companies, everybody. I mean, clearly politicians who looked at this, they saw the Janet Jackson thing, and they thought, you know, holy cow. This is publicity pay dirt. What does a politician want to do? A politician wants to get on television. And...

COOPER: Because a lot of people seem to be sort of feigning outrage. I guess some people are actually outraged. But it's a little bit like Casablanca...

WOLFF: This is totally shock, shock. It's absolutely...

COOPER: It's like in Casablanca...

WOLFF: Yes.

COOPER: ... the French policeman who is like...

WOLFF: Yes.

COOPER: ... I'm shocked to find out there's gambling going on here.

WOLFF: Right. This has been going on for at least a generation. It's not any worse than it was a year ago or 5 years ago or 10 years ago. It is just suddenly a moment in time when everybody says, hey, we can take advantage of this, you know, especially the FCC, which is under enormous pressure. Everybody hates the FCC. So, finally they've found an issue of which we can wrap ourselves in a flag.

COOPER: And it does just happen to be an election year, doesn't it?

WOLFF: It does just happen to be.

COOPER: All right, Michael Wolff, thank you very much, from "Vanity Fair." Appreciate it.

WOLFF: Thanks.

COOPER: Soledad.

O'BRIEN: And it is that same topic that we are discussing with Jack, and it's the question of the day. Hello.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Hi.

The question this morning, Soledad: Should Howard Stern be the poster child for cleaning up the nation's airwaves?

Heidi in Kansas City, Missouri says: "Why should he? He had a critically-acclaimed popular film that clearly warned everyone of his idea of humor. The last time I checked, Stern was not being charged with doctor-shopping and other truly criminal offenses, as Rush Limbaugh has been in recent months. If you don't like what or who you hear, change the channel."

Anna in New Orleans: "Howard Stern had it coming to him. He's been getting away with unacceptable filth long enough. He deserves to be made an example of, and he knows it. He nor the rest of us should be surprised."

And John in Ontario, California has this: "Howard Stern should not be the poster child for anything with the exception of flea collars and maybe Rogaine."

O'BRIEN: How is the e-mail coming in?

CAFFERTY: Oh, over the computer.

O'BRIEN: Oh, you're a riot. Did you come up with that all by yourself, or do other people help you write (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

CAFFERTY: That's how we get it. I have a set of stock answers for certain kinds of questions, and that was one of them.

O'BRIEN: Oh, stupid question, stupid answer. I hear you. I get it. All right, I'm not talking to you for the rest of the show. No.

CAFFERTY: Good. Now, maybe I'll be healthy for a week or two.

O'BRIEN: All right. Enough from you. Still to come this morning, Easter, of course. It's a time for rebirth. We're going to talk to a pastor this morning about dealing with the world's turmoil during this holy week. That's ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Welcome back, everybody. We've got this just in to CNN. There has been a blast reported in Baghdad. You are looking at a shot now of the Baghdad skyline. You can see a plume of smoke rising there in the background. Happening in the last 15 minutes or so.

We are, of course, working on this. There are very few details about exactly what has happened, but we're going to keep you updated on this story and continue to follow it for you this morning.

But reports now that the plume of smoke you are seeing there in the shot, blasts being reported in Baghdad in the last 15 minutes or so.

Also today, Good Friday. It's the beginning, of course, of the Easter weekend (AUDIO GAP) so much turmoil in the world. Just how are people celebrating this Easter?

Joining us to talk about that this morning is Pastor Paul Raushenbush. He is the associate dean of religious studies at Princeton University. H's also an advice columnist with BeliefNet.com.

Nice to see you, pastor. Thanks for being with us. We certainly appreciate it.

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH, ASSOC. DEAN OF RELIGIOUS LIFE, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: It's nice to be here.

O'BRIEN: How do you think war changes the celebrations in this time of Easter and also changes really what Christians will hear from their pastors and their priests as they head to the church and services?

RAUSHENBUSH: Well, I think that you see in the Christian tradition a real acknowledgment of suffering, a real acknowledgment of death and turmoil and fear. And so, this day, Good Friday, is a day that is made manifest in the crucifixion of Jesus.

And so, it's really a time when people contemplate the reality of death, the reality of suffering and strife. And so, it's a time when people can really acknowledge that is happening, but it's never done without the realization that Easter is coming.

So, it's actually a time where we acknowledge that this is happening, acknowledging turmoil exists, but then always looking towards the Easter morning when life does conquer death and hope conquers fear.

O'BRIEN: I mean, that's the underlying point... RAUSHENBUSH: That's the underlying point.

O'BRIEN: ... to a large degree of Easter is that there is hope. And so, are you saying that that's the message people will hear, not only in the spiritual sense, but also tailored to what is happening in the world now, in the context of the unrest in Iraq and other places as well?

RAUSHENBUSH: I think ultimately that's what you are going to hear a lot of, that Jesus has come to establish the kingdom of God on Earth, and that eventually we can have peace here.

And it's not only in the Christian tradition. We're also in the week of Passover, where we have the Jewish tradition of coming out of slavery into freedom. And so, another tradition that acknowledges that suffering does exist, that turmoil does exist, but that eventually God will lead us out of this suffering and into a new era of peace and freedom.

So, I think that right now you are hearing a lot of messages today of acknowledging that we're in a time of turmoil, seeing images of Jesus on the cross, who kind of signifies God suffering with us, and then but always looking towards Easter morning, because crucifixion is not the last word in the Christian tradition.

O'BRIEN: You have an online advice column at BeliefNet.com. And I was surprised that most of your e-mails come from 25-year-olds and under. What kind of questions are they asking you in your advice column?

RAUSHENBUSH: I get thousands of e-mails. It's really amazing how many people are using the Internet to look into spirituality and religion. And I get questions, everything from, I am having a horrible time in my life and I don't know what to do about it, I don't know where to turn, to ethical questions about issues of the day. You know, issues that affect young people. Can I get a tattoo? You know, can I listen to hard rock? Can I -- you know, can I date...

O'BRIEN: Sure, if you want to. And yes.

RAUSHENBUSH: Well, yes, I mean, you know, but for some people these are real questions. Can I date someone not of my religion? What if I...

O'BRIEN: Does it surprise you, the young age? I mean, I was surprised to see that you've got teenagers in there.

RAUSHENBUSH: Oh, yes, it's mostly teenagers.

O'BRIEN: Really?

RAUSHENBUSH: Yes, yes.

O'BRIEN: They (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

RAUSHENBUSH: No, but young people -- I am honored to work with at Princeton University with students of all different religions. We have a group called the Religious Life Council that has students of all different religions. They come together once a week to talk about this. These are young people who are completely engaged in religion.

O'BRIEN: Do you think what's going on in the world, the conflict worldwide I think it's fair to say, is playing a role in that interest?

RAUSHENBUSH: I think so, but I also think that there's a new -- you know, I kind of think that the '60s and '70s were a time to say, ah, we don't need the old religion stuff. And now, I think, people are kind of going back and saying, hey, there's a message in there that's actually really deep and profound and comes from the ages, and we're interested in learning about that message and maybe adopting that for our own lives.

O'BRIEN: Reverend Raushenbush, nice to have you. As always, nice to see you. Thanks so much.

RAUSHENBUSH: It's great to be here.

O'BRIEN: Thank you -- Anderson.

COOPER: Soledad, we have just received these pictures in, sort of interesting pictures. They are coming in now of U.S. Marines taking down some posters. This is in Baghdad. Posters of the cleric, al-Sadr. They have been put up. Apparently, now Marines are moving in, taking those posters down. These are live pictures you're looking at in Baghdad.

We had also received a report of an explosion in Baghdad just a short time ago. We are trying to get as much information as we can on that. We'll bring it to you when we do.

We'll take a short break and be right back.

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Aired April 9, 2004 - 07:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome back, everybody. It is exactly half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING. Anderson Cooper is filling in for Bill Hemmer, who has the day off today. Lucky Bill.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, what's he doing?

O'BRIEN: Lucky you, too...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Maybe he's parasailing.

O'BRIEN: No. You know, his family is in town for Good Friday.

COOPER: Oh, really? OK.

O'BRIEN: I hope you don't mind me sharing some of your holiday plans, Bill. Oops, maybe I shouldn't have said that.

Anyway, there are a bunch of stories, of course, that we are following this morning, especially in Iraq.

COOPER: Yes, let's take a look at some of our top ones.

We're looking at a very complex U.S. military strategy in Iraq, getting perspective from retired Air Force General George Harrison on that.

Also, we're going to get into questions about whether U.S. troops are spread too thin, and what troops will actually have to do to succeed against insurgents.

O'BRIEN: Also this morning, we're going to talk with a columnist from "Vanity Fair" about Clear Channel's decision to dump Howard Stern. What's next for the shock jock? And what's next for other stations, too, that could risk similar fines? We'll ask him that question.

COOPER: And that's what Jack Cafferty is focusing on today.

A lot ahead. Let's take a look at our top stories right now.

Japan's prime minister is calling threats to kill three Japanese hostages being held in Iraq cowardly. Video of three Japanese nationals showed them being held hostage at gunpoint; knifepoint at one point. A group calling itself the Mujahideen Squadrons is demanding that Japan pull its troops out of Iraq. Japan's government says it's standing by its decision not to withdraw its non-combat personnel.

Here in the U.S., the Pension Relief Bill is on its way to President Bush's desk. The Senate overwhelmingly passed the legislation by a vote of 78-19. It could save employers, who sponsor pension plans, an estimated $80 billion over the next two years. The legislation would change how companies calculate their pension contributions to reflect current interest rates.

On a sports note, the youngest pro on the green is out in front while there's more misery at the Masters tournament for Tiger Woods. At 23, Justin Rose takes the early lead. He fired at five under par 67 Thursday in the first round. Meanwhile, Tiger Woods struggled through a frustrating 14 holes, going 4 -- yes, he does look frustrated -- going 4 over par before the sun set. Now, this is the second straight Masters in which Woods appears to be struggling to make the cut.

And in Farmington, Utah, residents are still cleaning up after a massive mudslide. The Forest Service spent $40,000 shoring up the hillside following last summer's wildfires, but the soil was already soaked from melting snow. Add to that two inches of rain that fell during a two-hour period earlier this week. The mud flooded garages, basements and blanketed yards.

O'BRIEN: That's a mess. I covered mudslides when I was working in California, and it is so difficult to get that stuff out of your house.

COOPER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: People trying to dig it out of their basement completely.

(WEATHER BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Well, U.S. Marines and their Iraqi allies have halted offensive action in the city of Fallujah. Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt tells CNN he expects the meeting to take place today between the Iraqi Governing Council members and leaders of the Sunni Muslim insurgency in the city.

Joining us with insights this morning on the situation in Iraq is retired U.S. Air Force General George Harrison.

Nice to see you, sir. Thanks for being with us.

It's good to be here.

O'BRIEN: Let's first start by talking about this cease-fire in Fallujah. There were reports that it was on, and then it was off. And, in fact, we got confirmation from Brigadier General Kimmitt that, in fact, it was still on.

In spite of some reports that we got about attacks on a humanitarian vehicle in that area, do you think that the cease-fire can hold or at least through this meeting that is expected to happen today?

GEN. GEORGE HARRISON, U.S. AIR FORCE, (RETIRED): Well, I think it's in the interest of all of the parties for it to hold. It's not a formal cease-fire, as you know. It's simply a cessation of U.S. activities.

So, what's happening is that the U.S. forces -- or the coalition forces in general are giving the Iraqis a chance to kind of clean up, regroup. The non-participants are being given a chance to work out their problems, and some humanitarian aid, hopefully, will come into the area.

So, I think this is a good idea overall, and it enhances the position of the coalition with respect to the Iraqi people in general.

O'BRIEN: At the same time, when you look at what's happening in Kut, you have insurgents who are loyal to the Sunni cleric, Muqtada al-Sadr, who are basically holed up and controlling a lot of that area.

HARRISON: That's right.

O'BRIEN: How difficult is it going to be for the U.S. military -- and the coalition forces, frankly -- to fight battles in both areas, even with this unofficial cease-fire in Fallujah that you've talked about?

HARRISON: Well, I think it's going to be very difficult, and obviously the coalition forces are having to figure out where to put the weight of their efforts so that they can get the right kind of job done.

This is a very tough job. As they move into the cities, we see a picture of an armored vehicle, a tank, moving along. You can't do this job with tanks. It has to be done by dismounted infantry, folks that are going into the houses, finding the weapons, finding the people who are using the weapons. And it's really a dirty, hard, tough job for all of the troops that are involved.

O'BRIEN: And it's certainly a dangerous job as well. Tribal leaders, we are hearing, in Kut say that they are planning to hand over control to the U.S. military, because they are so disgusted by what they have seen by some of these insurgents. And yet, of course, the question there is, well, it doesn't sound like they actually have control of the city to be handing it over to anybody, does it?

HARRISON: Well, that's probably true. But I think as they withdraw themselves as a controlling faction, I think we'll see considerably more activity by the U.S. that will stabilize the situation. And, of course, the first thing that has to be done to work on this problem is to get the security issue resolved so that the U.S. forces, or the coalition forces in general, can provide an environment of security that lets this peace process move forward and lets the Iraqis begin to govern themselves. O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the taking of hostages. We've heard, of course, about these three Japanese civilians who are now being held hostage. Do you expect that this could, in fact, drive a wedge between the U.S. and some of its coalition partners?

HARRISON: Well, certainly it makes things more difficult, but I'm encouraged by the response of Japan. Naturally, we all feel for the hostages and for their families, but we can't -- the Japanese have decided that they cannot let this hostage situation interfere with what they see as the larger purpose, which is to bring stability to a very important region.

O'BRIEN: All right. Well, General, thank you very much for being with us this morning. We certainly appreciate it. General George Harrison, retired, joining us this morning. Thanks, sir.

HARRISON: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Anderson.

COOPER: Soledad, the panel investigating what led up to September 11, 2001 wants to know more about August 6, the month before. That is the date that President Bush received a report titled "bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the United States." National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice was questioned yesterday repeatedly about that presidential daily brief.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TIM ROEMER, 9/11 COMMISSION MEMBER: The threat reporting saying the United States is going to be attacked should trigger the principals getting together...

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: But with all...

ROEMER: ... to say we're going...

RICE: Mr. Roemer -- Mr. Roemer, let's be very clear.

ROEMER: ... I would think.

RICE: The PDB does not say the United States is going to be attacked. It says bin Laden would like to attack the United States. I don't think you frankly had to have that report to know that bin Laden would like to attack the United States.

ROEMER: So, why aren't you doing...

RICE: The threat...

ROEMER: ... something about that...

RICE: The threat reporting...

ROEMER: ... earlier than August 6?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: (AUDIO GAP) you just heard questioning Ms. Rice if he was generally satisfied with her testimony yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROEMER: She was cool. She was statesman-like. She was professional and helpful. But she also left some more questions and some holes in her testimony. What happened to this direction from Dr. Rice for the FBI to look for some type of activity in our country and nothing happened. Mr. Prikard (ph), the acting director of the FBI, can't seem to recollect any kind of direction. The special agents in charge in the field can't remember doing anything. Why wasn't this decision executed? Was it made?

And with respect to the silver bullet theory that Dr. Rice said, I agree there's no silver bullet. But you've got to load the bullets in the chamber and fire at al Qaeda while you are doing a bottom-up review. Why not put the predator out there? Why not give aid to the Northern Alliance? Why not attack al Qaeda for the USS Cole? They didn't do that. Why not?

COOPER: Richard Clarke had said previously that all of the branches of the government needed to be shaken. Today, Dr. Rice said she was shaking the entire tree. But is there any evidence of that that you have found?

ROEMER: I don't know that the whole tree was being shaken vigorously, Anderson. I think that maybe some limbs were, but I think there are also some limbs out there that may not have been touched.

COOPER: Well, Condoleezza Rice kept talking about systematic communications problems between the FBI and CIA, kind of indicating that that's where a lot of the fault may kind of lie with those communications problems. (A), do those problems still exist? And, (b), is that an acceptable explanation?

ROEMER: When you see those kinds of problems and you are coming into a new administration -- Secretary Armitage in his interview with the 9/11 Commission gave us some good advice. He said 30 days in, you own the policy; meaning, 30 days into the new administration those policies are yours.

I think many people have known for years this wedge between the CIA and the FBI. It needs systemic reform. Why didn't we approach that issue? We cannot have that in the future. I don't think that that's been entirely fixed yet.

COOPER: After Dr. Rice's testimony when the cameras were not present, you did talk to former President Clinton, I think, for some three hours or plus. What can you say about that testimony? I know there's a lot you can't say. What can you tell us?

ROEMER: Well, it was certainly three hours plus, closer to four hours. The former president was very helpful, very effusive in recommending to us some major policies that we might look at to move forward toward a new paradigm against this jihadist threat. He was very open to some of our tough questions toward him as to what the Clinton administration did right and wrong. Some of us pressed him very hard on the USS Cole, or what they may have done right in terms of striking back after the African bombings in 1998.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: That was Congressman Timothy Roemer, a 9/11 Commission member and a former congressman, Tim Roemer.

We're going to get an update on how close the White House is to declassifying that August memo when Jeanne Meserve joins us in about 20 minutes.

O'BRIEN: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, on again/off again clashes in Fallujah. This morning, we've got the very latest from Iraq.

COOPER: And what does Howard Stern have to say about being kicked off the air by a radio giant? We're going to talk about that. Stay ahead with us on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Government regulators have imposed a fine for indecency on Clear Channel Communications because of the Howard Stern radio program. Clear Channel immediately dropped the show yesterday. Stern called the nearly $500,000 fine by the Federal Communications Commission a shocking interference in free speech.

Michael Wolff of "Vanity Fair" magazine is here with us now to talk about it.

Michael, good to see you this morning.

MICHAEL WOLFF, COLUMNIST, "VANITY FAIR": Nice to see you.

COOPER: For Clear Channel, they dropped him from the six stations that he was run on. He's run on a lot more stations by Infinity Broadcasting. But for Clear Channel, it basically boiled down to money. It was a business decision, yes?

WOLFF: Well, I think it's even larger than that. Clear Channel is now under enormous pressure by the government in terms of media boogiemen, which there are a lot in this country. Clear Channel is right up there. And they're facing all kinds of government regulation or, in fact, what would be re-regulation.

So, they're, I think, at this point, among their other considerations, they are willing to do anything to try to keep the FCC and Congress happy.

COOPER: And yet, Viacom, which is the parent company of Infinity Broadcasting which runs Howard Stern on numerous stations...

WOLFF: Right, and which employs Howard Stern. COOPER: Right. They are standing by him. They say -- and I guess they feel that the money is still not -- I guess they won't get fined enough?

WOLFF: Well, Howard Stern just from -- Howard Stern is really an Infinity and Viacom property. It is -- in many ways, he is one of the pillars of the company.

COOPER: A huge amount of money, $100 million a year.

WOLFF: When, in fact, Infinity took over CBS, Howard Stern would say I bought CBS, and in many ways that's true. So, there is just no way Viacom is going to, in any sense, sacrifice Howard Stern.

It's -- for Clear Channel, it's a relatively insignificant move on their part. It means, actually, that they just waited. Looked at it on the balance sheet. OK, we need the FCC to look kindly on us more than we need the revenue from Howard Stern. And they dusted off their hands, and that was it.

COOPER: Howard Stern has called this a witch hunt. Do you see this as a witch hunt?

WOLFF: I see it as a publicity hunt. Everybody is...

COOPER: By everyone?

WOLFF: Everybody.

COOPER: Politicians, everyone.

WOLFF: Politicians, media companies, everybody. I mean, clearly politicians who looked at this, they saw the Janet Jackson thing, and they thought, you know, holy cow. This is publicity pay dirt. What does a politician want to do? A politician wants to get on television. And...

COOPER: Because a lot of people seem to be sort of feigning outrage. I guess some people are actually outraged. But it's a little bit like Casablanca...

WOLFF: This is totally shock, shock. It's absolutely...

COOPER: It's like in Casablanca...

WOLFF: Yes.

COOPER: ... the French policeman who is like...

WOLFF: Yes.

COOPER: ... I'm shocked to find out there's gambling going on here.

WOLFF: Right. This has been going on for at least a generation. It's not any worse than it was a year ago or 5 years ago or 10 years ago. It is just suddenly a moment in time when everybody says, hey, we can take advantage of this, you know, especially the FCC, which is under enormous pressure. Everybody hates the FCC. So, finally they've found an issue of which we can wrap ourselves in a flag.

COOPER: And it does just happen to be an election year, doesn't it?

WOLFF: It does just happen to be.

COOPER: All right, Michael Wolff, thank you very much, from "Vanity Fair." Appreciate it.

WOLFF: Thanks.

COOPER: Soledad.

O'BRIEN: And it is that same topic that we are discussing with Jack, and it's the question of the day. Hello.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Hi.

The question this morning, Soledad: Should Howard Stern be the poster child for cleaning up the nation's airwaves?

Heidi in Kansas City, Missouri says: "Why should he? He had a critically-acclaimed popular film that clearly warned everyone of his idea of humor. The last time I checked, Stern was not being charged with doctor-shopping and other truly criminal offenses, as Rush Limbaugh has been in recent months. If you don't like what or who you hear, change the channel."

Anna in New Orleans: "Howard Stern had it coming to him. He's been getting away with unacceptable filth long enough. He deserves to be made an example of, and he knows it. He nor the rest of us should be surprised."

And John in Ontario, California has this: "Howard Stern should not be the poster child for anything with the exception of flea collars and maybe Rogaine."

O'BRIEN: How is the e-mail coming in?

CAFFERTY: Oh, over the computer.

O'BRIEN: Oh, you're a riot. Did you come up with that all by yourself, or do other people help you write (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

CAFFERTY: That's how we get it. I have a set of stock answers for certain kinds of questions, and that was one of them.

O'BRIEN: Oh, stupid question, stupid answer. I hear you. I get it. All right, I'm not talking to you for the rest of the show. No.

CAFFERTY: Good. Now, maybe I'll be healthy for a week or two.

O'BRIEN: All right. Enough from you. Still to come this morning, Easter, of course. It's a time for rebirth. We're going to talk to a pastor this morning about dealing with the world's turmoil during this holy week. That's ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Welcome back, everybody. We've got this just in to CNN. There has been a blast reported in Baghdad. You are looking at a shot now of the Baghdad skyline. You can see a plume of smoke rising there in the background. Happening in the last 15 minutes or so.

We are, of course, working on this. There are very few details about exactly what has happened, but we're going to keep you updated on this story and continue to follow it for you this morning.

But reports now that the plume of smoke you are seeing there in the shot, blasts being reported in Baghdad in the last 15 minutes or so.

Also today, Good Friday. It's the beginning, of course, of the Easter weekend (AUDIO GAP) so much turmoil in the world. Just how are people celebrating this Easter?

Joining us to talk about that this morning is Pastor Paul Raushenbush. He is the associate dean of religious studies at Princeton University. H's also an advice columnist with BeliefNet.com.

Nice to see you, pastor. Thanks for being with us. We certainly appreciate it.

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH, ASSOC. DEAN OF RELIGIOUS LIFE, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: It's nice to be here.

O'BRIEN: How do you think war changes the celebrations in this time of Easter and also changes really what Christians will hear from their pastors and their priests as they head to the church and services?

RAUSHENBUSH: Well, I think that you see in the Christian tradition a real acknowledgment of suffering, a real acknowledgment of death and turmoil and fear. And so, this day, Good Friday, is a day that is made manifest in the crucifixion of Jesus.

And so, it's really a time when people contemplate the reality of death, the reality of suffering and strife. And so, it's a time when people can really acknowledge that is happening, but it's never done without the realization that Easter is coming.

So, it's actually a time where we acknowledge that this is happening, acknowledging turmoil exists, but then always looking towards the Easter morning when life does conquer death and hope conquers fear.

O'BRIEN: I mean, that's the underlying point... RAUSHENBUSH: That's the underlying point.

O'BRIEN: ... to a large degree of Easter is that there is hope. And so, are you saying that that's the message people will hear, not only in the spiritual sense, but also tailored to what is happening in the world now, in the context of the unrest in Iraq and other places as well?

RAUSHENBUSH: I think ultimately that's what you are going to hear a lot of, that Jesus has come to establish the kingdom of God on Earth, and that eventually we can have peace here.

And it's not only in the Christian tradition. We're also in the week of Passover, where we have the Jewish tradition of coming out of slavery into freedom. And so, another tradition that acknowledges that suffering does exist, that turmoil does exist, but that eventually God will lead us out of this suffering and into a new era of peace and freedom.

So, I think that right now you are hearing a lot of messages today of acknowledging that we're in a time of turmoil, seeing images of Jesus on the cross, who kind of signifies God suffering with us, and then but always looking towards Easter morning, because crucifixion is not the last word in the Christian tradition.

O'BRIEN: You have an online advice column at BeliefNet.com. And I was surprised that most of your e-mails come from 25-year-olds and under. What kind of questions are they asking you in your advice column?

RAUSHENBUSH: I get thousands of e-mails. It's really amazing how many people are using the Internet to look into spirituality and religion. And I get questions, everything from, I am having a horrible time in my life and I don't know what to do about it, I don't know where to turn, to ethical questions about issues of the day. You know, issues that affect young people. Can I get a tattoo? You know, can I listen to hard rock? Can I -- you know, can I date...

O'BRIEN: Sure, if you want to. And yes.

RAUSHENBUSH: Well, yes, I mean, you know, but for some people these are real questions. Can I date someone not of my religion? What if I...

O'BRIEN: Does it surprise you, the young age? I mean, I was surprised to see that you've got teenagers in there.

RAUSHENBUSH: Oh, yes, it's mostly teenagers.

O'BRIEN: Really?

RAUSHENBUSH: Yes, yes.

O'BRIEN: They (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

RAUSHENBUSH: No, but young people -- I am honored to work with at Princeton University with students of all different religions. We have a group called the Religious Life Council that has students of all different religions. They come together once a week to talk about this. These are young people who are completely engaged in religion.

O'BRIEN: Do you think what's going on in the world, the conflict worldwide I think it's fair to say, is playing a role in that interest?

RAUSHENBUSH: I think so, but I also think that there's a new -- you know, I kind of think that the '60s and '70s were a time to say, ah, we don't need the old religion stuff. And now, I think, people are kind of going back and saying, hey, there's a message in there that's actually really deep and profound and comes from the ages, and we're interested in learning about that message and maybe adopting that for our own lives.

O'BRIEN: Reverend Raushenbush, nice to have you. As always, nice to see you. Thanks so much.

RAUSHENBUSH: It's great to be here.

O'BRIEN: Thank you -- Anderson.

COOPER: Soledad, we have just received these pictures in, sort of interesting pictures. They are coming in now of U.S. Marines taking down some posters. This is in Baghdad. Posters of the cleric, al-Sadr. They have been put up. Apparently, now Marines are moving in, taking those posters down. These are live pictures you're looking at in Baghdad.

We had also received a report of an explosion in Baghdad just a short time ago. We are trying to get as much information as we can on that. We'll bring it to you when we do.

We'll take a short break and be right back.

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