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American Morning
Thomas Hamill Closer to Home; Abuse Allegations of Iraqi Prisoners; Bush Campaign
Aired May 04, 2004 - 9:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THOMAS HAMILL, FMR. IRAQI PRISONER: First and foremost, I would like to thank the American public for their support of all deployed in the Middle East.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: That was escaped hostage Thomas Hamill for the first time going public today in Germany and looking forward to his long-awaited trip back here on U.S. soil.
Authorities seize Michael Jackson memorabilia, including photos and a letter and a pair of underwear.
And the inferno raging in the backyard. Some homes already lost to wildfires; thousands more in danger today.
And ahead this hour on AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
HEMMER: All right. Welcome, everybody. Soledad is out this week. Heidi Collins is here with us on AMERICAN MORNING in New York City.
Welcome back.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you very much.
HEMMER: How are you guys getting along over there?
COLLINS: We're doing better. We're working on it. Relax. I want to let you know about some other stories we've been following...
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: People have been killed for less, you know.
HEMMER: They have. I'm a witness.
COLLINS: I'm keeping my distance.
We are going to hear the story of one of the men in those now famous pictures from Abu Ghraib Prison. And a little later, the general who was in charge of the prison will tell us who she thinks should bear some responsibility for what went on there. Very interesting words coming up.
HEMMER: Yes, and a continuing story again today.
Also, we're talking about a controversial sex crime case that changed the lives of two high school students. Supporters of Marcus Dixon say he received cruel and unusual punishment because he's black and his accuser is white. His 10-year sentence just overturned. We'll talk to his legal guardians and his attorney in a moment here.
COLLINS: First, we'll talk to Jack Cafferty.
CAFFERTY: Can I call those H&R people? What do they call them, the health...
HEMMER: Human resources.
CAFFERTY: I mean, grabbing at my stuff over here and everything. I don't know. That could be some sort of violation. I could get a big settlement.
COLLINS: Oh, what did we say about whining earlier?
CAFFERTY: The campaign for the White House is going to total $1 billion. And so far, we're getting a lot of nothing for the money, I think.
John Kerry is out with $25 million of TV ads that talks about first he was a little boy and then he wasn't, and then he went in the Army, then he got out, then he went to the Navy. That's where he is now.
Huh?
HEMMER: Navy.
CAFFERTY: Wherever.
And George Bush is on a bus driving around in two states where 500,000 people have lost their jobs, trying to connect with the common man. Big turnouts because nobody is working there. So the question is, what do you think about the campaign and all this money? Are we getting what we ought to be getting?
HEMMER: Six months to go, too.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
COLLINS: Long time. All right, Jack. Thanks so much. Want to get to the news this morning.
Thousands of people evacuated in southern California as firefighters battle wildfires there. Thousands of acres have been scorched from Los Angeles to San Diego counties. Dozens of homes are threatened, and triple-digit temperatures and erratic winds have made fighting the fires much more difficult. The so-called Middle East Quartet meeting in New York today to discuss the tattered roadmap to peace in the region. The conference comes on the heels of a new assault in Gaza. Palestinian sources say two people were killed, dozens other wounded in a helicopter attack. Israel says it was targeting Hamas members. There are also reports of an explosion in the West Bank.
New Jersey officials saying they have seized a number of items believed to have belonged to Michael Jackson. The items include a pair of underwear and photographs showing the entertainer with young boys. The items are part of an investigation in the child molestation case. CNN cannot independently verify who owned any of the items. Jackson has pleaded not guilty to all charges.
And the FBI is investigating a fast-spreading computer worm. Experts say at least four different versions of the Sasser computer worm are moving through Windows operating systems. The virus causes some computers to continually crash and reboot. If you find an e-mail that offers to fix the Sasser worm, delete it. It actually infects your computer with, yes, another virus. Pretty crafty.
HEMMER: That can be a mess, too.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: Thomas Hamill, the Mississippi truck driver who escaped his Iraqi captors over the weekend, expected to be reunited with his wife tomorrow. Today, Hamill made a brief appearance at the U.S. medical facility in Landstuhl, Germany, where he is now being treated for a gunshot wound to his right forearm. Chris Burns is there as well and joins us live with more.
Chris, good afternoon there.
CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Bill.
This is the same medical center where Jessica Lynch came through just last year. And Mr. Hamill is going through some of the same care, both psychological counseling, intel debriefing, and also medical treatment.
Doctors here say that he did suffer some pretty bad injuries to his right arm when he was shot in the arm. That back on April 9, when his fuel convoy was ambushed as he was driving that truck in that convoy. He lost some bone, some skin. They're giving him antibiotics, got him bandaged up.
He's going to have to have surgery when he gets back to the states possibly sometime later this week. In fact, he even had some surgery when he was in captivity, doctors say. Mr. Hamill did have a few words when he came out to see the cameras for the first time today. He had a few words, saying he's looking forward to going home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAMILL: I am feeling well and having few problems with my injury. I'd like everyone to know that I (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And I am looking forward to reuniting with my wife in the morning. And thank you so very much, and god bless.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNS: Now, Mr. Hamill didn't have any comment, didn't answer any questions. But doctors have been talking to him, and they do tell reporters and tell us that he had some pretty dramatic accounts about being captured and freeing himself.
When he was captured, he said that he heard a pop and a bang and a burning on his arm, and he saw that he was bleeding. He grabbed a sock off the windshield of his truck and started to tighten it to stop the bleeding. And that could have saved his life.
Later, when he was -- when he escaped just this last Sunday, he awoke to the sound of diesel engines. Right away, he knew those were not Iraqi vehicles, those were U.S. military vehicles, popped his head outside the door to make sure that's what they were, forced himself through the crack of the door and ran to safety -- Bill.
HEMMER: And as a truck driver, too, he would know that sound, the difference between a diesel engine and others.
Thanks, Chris. Great story today. Chris Burns in Germany.
Heidi?
COLLINS: More details now on the alleged abuse of Iraqi prisoners. A classified report on the alleged abuses obtained by CNN says egregious acts and grave breaches of international law occurred at the Abu Ghraib Prison. Six officers have received reprimands, a number of others are facing criminal charges or have been suspended.
Ben Wedeman has talked to some Iraqis who say they were abused at the prison. He's joining us live now in Baghdad -- Ben.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CAIRO BUREAU CHIEF: Yes, Heidi. In fact, I had a chance to speak with one of the men in those pictures, as well as other prisoners. And what does emerge is what appears to be a disturbing picture of what goes on in Abu Ghraib Prison.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN (voice-over): "That's me," says Haidar Sabar Ali (ph), prisoner 13077 at Abu Ghraib Prison. Coalition sources confirm to CNN prisoner number 13077 was one of the seven naked men in these photographs.
"They cut off our clothing with knives," he recalls. "We're Muslims. We don't go naked in front of our families. But there we were, naked in front of American women and men."
As Haidar (ph) he explains it, this was punishment for beating a prisoner they suspected of spying on them for the Americans. "This ordeal," he says, "went on for about four hours." "They were cursing at us," he says. "If you talked, they hit you hard in sensitive places, in the kidney, in the chest, in the throat. Our bodies were full of bruises. They didn't let us out of the cells until all our wounds had healed."
He said he was questioned by U.S. military intelligence after the incident and asked to describe those involved. "There are other pictures," he says. "American intelligence has them of dogs attacking us."
Abbas (ph) claims he was also a prisoner at Abu Ghraib, but not in any of the photographs. He didn't want his face to appear on camera. "They would put the plastic cuffs on someone and leave him outside for hours in the rain, in the cold," he tells me. "They would humiliate them, and this was just punishment for simple things."
The family of Whalid Ahmed Hedi (ph), a prisoner at Abu Ghraib, has just seen the pictures of alleged abuse of Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers. Whalid's (ph) mother, Buthana (ph), says one of the pictures was particularly disturbing.
"I felt as if this was Jesus crucified," she says. "I thought that could be my son."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN: Now Heidi, U.S. authorities here obviously take this matter very seriously. They're conducting a series of investigations into Abu Ghraib, changing some of their methods already. The new commander of the prison, Major General Jeffrey Miller, says that as of four days ago, they have discontinued the use of hooding, sleep deprivation, and stress positions, and that they will be reducing the prison population at Abu Ghraib by about half -- Heidi.
COLLINS: All right. Ben Wedeman, thanks so much for the very latest on that.
And we want to let you know, later this hour, we will have Soledad's interview with Brigadier General Janice Karpinski, the former military police commander at the Abu Ghraib Prison. That's at 9:30 Eastern.
HEMMER: About 10 minutes past the hour now.
The president continues a two-day Midwest campaign swing today, with four stops in Ohio. He left Detroit earlier today, heading toward his first stop in the Toledo suburbs. Mr. Bush narrowly won Ohio for years ago.
Dana Bash is in Maumee, Ohio, northern part of the state near Toledo.
Dana, what is the strategy there in the Buckeye State?
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill. Well, the president, as he rolls through Ohio today, is going to have a similar sales pitch to what we heard on day one of this bus tour in Michigan. But there is one crucial difference. Winning Michigan would be nice for the Bush campaign; winning Ohio is essential, because history shows that no president, particularly Republican, has gotten to the White House without winning Ohio.
But, Bill, just like Michigan, Ohio has seen devastating job loss on the president's watch. And so we expect the president to talk about the fact that, while he thinks the economy is getting better, he gets it, he understands that people in Ohio are hurting, but we do expect him to say that he thinks his tax cuts will eventually kick in, and that his challenger, John Kerry, has policies that will make things worse.
Now, we are currently outside of Toledo, a Toledo suburb where Al Gore won. Now, the president obviously won in 2000, but polls show he is neck and neck with John Kerry. So he is here trying to get this particular suburb on the Republican side. And we have four more stops. The last stop, Bill, is in Cincinnati, your home town.
HEMMER: Yes, that it is. Dana, in the meantime, this Iraqi abuse story continues to gather steam yet again today. The president talked about it at the White House last Friday. Others have suggested perhaps another public apology is due.
I'm not quite sure what the White House position is on that. What have you heard so far today?
BASH: Well, Bill, as the president has made his trip, he has certainly talked about the war in Iraq, defended the idea of going into Iraq. But he has not talked publicly at these events about the prisoner issue.
He did, however, give an interview to the Detroit Free Press, where he said that he was shaken by the pictures and, of course, by the alleged abuse. He also said, as we heard yesterday from the press secretary, that he has told the defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, that he wants to find out quickly whether or not this abuse was widespread or whether it was just localized to that particular prison.
But he also said that he is very concerned that it shows the U.S. as non-caring and non-compassionate. But we do know that the president was informed about this some time ago. We don't know when. And we also know from the president he also, like the defense secretary and like the chairman of the joint chiefs, had not seen the initial report about the abuses.
But he's speaking out, at least to local press. We possibly could hear more from him later today on that -- Bill.
HEMMER: We'll be tracking it along with you. Dana, thanks. Dana Bash there in northern Ohio, in Maumee.
COLLINS: Still to come, an honor student and star athlete is released from prison. His conviction tossed out by Georgia's highest court. Our interview with his family coming up next.
HEMMER: Also, health news today. Working to shed off the pounds this summer? Hear from one doctor who says being overweight has nothing to do with being unhealthy. We'll explain.
Still ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Nineteen-year-old Marcus Dixon is back home in Georgia after the state's highest court threw out his conviction on child molestation charges. Dixon spent 14 months in prison before his release yesterday on bond. The honor student and star athlete had received a mandatory 10-year sentence for having sex with an under-age classmate. But the court reversed that decision, saying the legislature most recently declared that sex between teenagers less than three years apart should be punished as misdemeanor statutory rape and not felony child molestation.
Earlier this morning, I spoke with Dixon's guardians, Ken and Peri Jones, and his attorney, David Balser, about the family's legal victory. I started by asking Perry how Marcus coped with being in prison the last several months.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PERI JONES, MARCUS DIXON'S GUARDIAN: The last two weeks were the most horrible. He mentioned that he was going to need serious counseling because of the way they treat you in prison. And he mentioned several times what happens, "what's going to happen if I die in here." So he was really depressed, and I think he felt like he was going to be in there for eight and a half more years.
COLLINS: Tell us a little bit more specifically about what he told you about that stay. Why had it gotten so much harder in the last couple of months?
JONES: Well, you know, we kept him motivated all along. It's just going to be a little bit longer. It's just going to be a little bit longer. And he had gotten to the point where he had heard that over and over, and, you know, he was just -- it was so bad there that he couldn't psych (ph) himself up anymore, you know?
And he wasn't there with friends and family, you know? There were no friends and family there with him. And so he had to do it all on his own.
COLLINS: Did you try to talk to him a little bit about his future, about his plans for his future, Peri?
JONES: You know, he really doesn't -- he just wants to -- this is what he said: he wants to chill and be with his friends and family right now. And he'll think about those things later. But I know that he wants to go to school. That's his next thing that he wants to get straightened out, is to go to school somewhere. COLLINS: Ken, what is your response, if I could, about the allegations? That the reason why, or part of the reason, that is, why Marcus was in jail is because he is black and his accuser is white. Do you think race is involved here?
KEN JONES, MARCUS DIXON'S GUARDIAN: Well, it's hard to deny that there wasn't any race there, you know? You don't like to look at it and you don't like to think that race would play a part in it, but, you know, when the young lady's own friends testified that they couldn't call her up at her house because they were black, you know, and that one of the statements she made that she was afraid that her father, if he found out about it, you know, they -- he would kill them, you know, because Marcus is black and she was white. You know, just those statements, you know, made it plain.
COLLINS: All right. I want to go ahead and bring in David Balser, of course the attorney for Marcus Dixon.
You know, David, prosecutors are planning to ask the Georgia Supreme Court to reconsider its decision. Is that likely? What do you think is going to happen here?
DAVID BALSER, MARCUS DIXON'S ATTORNEY: I have heard that they are intending to file a motion for reconsideration. I think it's unlikely the supreme court would change its decision . The decision was obviously very carefully crafted. It was well thought out.
It's a very well-reasoned decision. And I think it's highly unlikely the supreme court would change its mind after deliberating as long as they did in reaching the decision in this case.
COLLINS: Do you think, though, that the state's mandatory sentencing law could possibly be changed?
BALSER: Well, I think what was interesting about the opinion that the supreme court issued is that the supreme court made a direct plea to the General Assembly of Georgia to look at the way these laws intersect, to try to bring some ration nationality to the way the criminal laws apply to teenage conduct. Because the way the Georgia sex crime laws are written, they aren't really intended to deal with the situation in which there's consensual teenage sex. And I do think that the General Assembly has the opportunity to make some clarifications in the law so that other children don't face the same fate that Marcus did in this case.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Once again, that was Marcus Dixon's guardians, Ken and Peri Jones, and his attorney, David Balser, about the family's legal victory.
Bill?
HEMMER: About 21 minutes past the hour now.
Scott Peterson's defense attorneys want to move his double murder trial for a second time. Attorney Mark Geragos filed a motion yesterday seeking to move Peterson's trial to LA County. Geragos claims that an impartial jury cannot be seated in northern California. He contends it's too close to the apparent murder scene, Modesto, and San Francisco Bay, where the bodies of Peterson's wife and her unborn child were discovered.
In a moment here, Thomas Hamill now a free man waiting to meet his wife in Germany. The latest on what is happening there with the former hostage.
And new details of the allegations of prisoner abuse in Iraq. The American general who was in charge of the Iraqi prison system where those notorious pictures were taken.
Back in a moment after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All right. Back to the Question of the Day. Once again, here is Jack.
CAFFERTY: Thank you, Bill.
Presidential candidates looking for the best way to connect with the voters. And before it's done, the LA Times says a billion dollars will be spent on the presidential campaign.
John Kerry has launched a $25 million ad campaign, with TV ads that tell his life story. President Bush on a two-day bus tour through Michigan and Ohio, trying to work with working class voters in two states where some 500,000 people have lost their jobs. So the question we are picking around at this morning is, how well do the candidates' campaign tactics work?
Doug in Worcester, Ohio -- a lot of mail from Ohio -- "I was forced to retire during a downsizing craze. At 55, I was told, "Here's your opportunity to start a second career." Just what I had in mind. As if anyone wants to hire a retiree. At 58, my investments lost a third of their value and I worked three part-time jobs to pay bills, as my pension has actually decreased. I need a solution, not a billion-dollar campaign."
Gary in Bethlehem, Connecticut, "This degree of spending may be driven by the fact that the news networks, your own included, spend inordinate amounts of time focused on such circus acts as celebrity court cases and, far worse, coverage of TV shows such as "American Idol." Somehow, I don't remember Cronkite ever giving us a synopsis of what happened to the Beaver the night before."
I really like that letter, Gary. Thank you for that.
Susan in Baltimore, Maryland, "An uninformed electorate makes bad choices. But at this juncture, neither candidate is offering a vision for the future. Bush is using scare tactics, and Kerry's message is muddled." And Peggy in Durham, California, has this idea: "Who needs ads? I don't. Hook these candidates up to a lie detector, televise it, and the one who tells the least lies I'll vote for."
HEMMER: It would save us some money, would it not?
CAFFERTY: I don't recall Cronkite ever giving us a synopsis of what happened to the Beaver the night before.
COLLINS: That was good.
CAFFERTY: That is in the top ten of the letters...
(CROSSTALK)
HEMMER: Mark it down. Yes, Jay Leno on "The Tonight Show" last night taking shots at both sides, the president and the senator from Massachusetts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY LENO, TALK SHOW HOST: Hey, did you see this on the news yesterday? Senator John Kerry out riding his bike, fell off. Fell off his bicycle. Luckily, he landed on his wallet, so he was fine. He's OK.
Well, last month, he fell down while snowboarding. This month he falls off his bicycle. Last year, Bush choked on a pretzel and fell off his Segue (ph) scooter. Are these guys running for president or president of the sixth grade? What are they doing here?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: That was from last night. I was at the correspondence dinner Saturday night with 1,999 of my favorite people in the industry. Jay Leno, by far and away, the funniest comedian they have ever had at these dinners. He had the place absolutely in stitches.
CAFFERTY: Really?
HEMMER: Took a lot of stuff from his "Tonight Show" put it all together.
CAFFERTY: Did he tell real old jokes, like that thing about he landed on his wallet? Because that thing is older than I am.
HEMMER: He saved that, though.
COLLINS: He forgot one little piece, though, about the one time when the president dropped his dog. Remember when he was walking and he dropped the dog? Maybe he didn't want to recreate that. Too many people get upset about it.
Still to come this morning, Middle East peace efforts on the agenda today at the United Nations. That as President Bush is asked to change his policies. More details on it right here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
HEMMER: Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING. Heidi is working this week for Soledad O'Brien. We welcome her back to New York City.
COLLINS: Thank you so much.
HEMMER: I hope Soledad is getting some rest, some well-needed rest.
COLLINS: Yes.
HEMMER: She's doing a little extra time work for a lot of folks.
COLLINS: Yes. Including the two in her tummy.
HEMMER: That's exactly right.
COLLINS: Other stories we are following this morning: prison. We'll talk with a brigadier general who was in charge of Abu Ghraib Prison about what she knew about prisoner abuse, what she did about it, and who is ultimately responsible.
HEMMER: A pretty interesting interview, too.
Also this hour, a lot about the epidemic of obesity -- we hear that, anyway -- and all the health problems that stem from it. We'll hear from someone who says that connection may be a myth. We'll sort it out for you in a moment here.
COLLINS: First, though, we want to get to the news this morning. A former American hostage, Thomas Hamill, speaks in public for the first time since he broke away from kidnappers in Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAMILL: I'm looking forward to returning to America. First and foremost, I would like to thank the American public for their support of all deployed in the Middle East. Please keep your thoughts and prayers with those who are still there.
I am feeling well, and having few problems with my injury. I'd like everyone to know that I have (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And I am looking forward to reuniting with my wife in the morning. And thank you so very much, and god bless.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The 43-year-old contractor is getting medical treatment at a military facility in Germany. Hamill escaped from his captors on Sunday and linked up with U.S. troops.
Thousands of people evacuated in southern California as firefighters battle wildfires there. You see these pictures coming in from KABC. Some 8,000 acres have been scorched from Los Angeles to San Diego counties. Dozen of homes are threatened, and triple-digit temperatures and erratic winds have made fighting the fires more difficult.
Also in California, thousands turned out to remember fallen soldier and former NFL star Pat Tillman. Mourners gathered yesterday in Tillman's home town of San Jose to honor the man who left the Arizona Cardinals to join the Army. Tillman died last month in a firefight in Afghanistan near the Pakistan border.
And St. Louis Blues hockey player Mike Danton heads to court today to face federal charges in connection with a murder-for-hire plot. Danton has been in jail in Illinois, and prosecutors say Danton and a 19-year-old woman tried to hire a hit man for 10,000 to kill his acquaintance.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: More details emerging on the alleged abuse of Iraqi prisoners today. Major General Jeffrey Miller, now in charge of prisons in Iraq, said he's already changing things in the prisons and that, "errors were made; we have corrected them." A classified report on the alleged abuses obtained by CNN says, "Egregious acts and grave breaches of international law occurred at the Abu Ghraib prison."
Six officers so far receiving reprimands. A number of others facing criminal charges, or have been suspended.
Brigadier General Janice Karpinski, the former military police commander at the Abu Ghraib Prison, among those suspended while an investigation is under way. Yesterday, the general, who since rotated out of Iraq, talked with our own Soledad O'Brien. Soledad started by asking her about her reaction about the report of the alleged abuses.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIG. GEN. JANICE KARPINSKI, ARMY RESERVE: The accusations were without foundation, that this was not a military police leadership issue. Specifically, this was a much broader responsibility, and that particular cell block was under the control of the military intelligence command at the time. And, in fact, from November on, Abu Ghraib Prison was under control of the military intelligence command.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: You had no control over this facility after a certain point?
KARPINSKI: I can't say no control at a certain point. But it was certainly far less control. And the reason I retained any control is because I had MPs that were still working out there, and they remained under the 800th MP Brigade.
O'BRIEN: Were you aware that some of your soldiers were involved in this or were taking pictures of some of the things that were going on?
KARPINSKI: Absolutely not. Absolutely had no knowledge. Not even a hint or a suggestion of any such activities.
O'BRIEN: And one of the most disturbing things I think about these pictures is the servicemen and women who are standing there smiling with thumb's up.
KARPINSKI: I agree.
O'BRIEN: While people are in these incredibly -- who are those soldiers? Are they your soldiers?
KARPINSKI: Yes. In those particular pictures that have been released, they are my MP soldiers, yes. The ones that you can see.
O'BRIEN: Explain that to me. I mean, I guess -- that kind of behavior just seems so out of left field to me.
KARPINSKI: And I agree. I mean...
O'BRIEN: Is it just a few bad eggs, apples, as we heard General Myers sort of refer to over the weekend, or is it a much bigger problem than that? Because they don't look embarrassed that they're -- they weren't caught sort of somehow in a picture. They're posing for a picture like the one they're sending back home to their friends.
KARPINSKI: Setting them up. I mean -- and enjoying it. And that was one of the most despicable aspects of those pictures, those faces on those soldiers, those soldiers who belonged to one of my MP companies, absolutely.
I don't know how they do this. I don't know how they allow -- they allowed these activities to get so out of control. But I do know with almost absolute confidence that they didn't wake up one day and decide to do this.
O'BRIEN: So you think what happened?
KARPINSKI: I think it is likely that the military intelligence people used the military police personnel in a support way. In other words, leave the lights on in the cell, turn the lights off in the cell, make sure that they get their meal late, take them out more often, don't let them get any sleep, because they were conducting the detention operations. They could control the light switches, they could control the food processing, whatever goes with detention operations.
O'BRIEN: None of your soldiers said this is not a gray area, I'm not supposed to do this?
KARPINSKI: They may have said it, but they didn't say it to me. And they didn't say it to a battalion commander who would have said it to me. And they didn't say it to a company commander, who would have said it to a battalion commander, who would have said it to me.
They did not. If they said it to anybody, if they mentioned it or had any concerns, then I believe that they would have mentioned it to the MI people who were instructing them or encouraging them -- I don't know if that's too strong of a word -- to follow these particular procedures.
O'BRIEN: Do you deserve some of the blame in this that's gone around?.
KARPINSKI: I certainly take the responsibility for some of this, yes. Because those soldiers were assigned to a company under my command.
Blame? I don't think that the blame rests with me or with the 800th MP Brigade. In fact, it's unfair, because we had 3,400 soldiers and 16 facilities, and this was the only facility where interrogation operations were taking place. And this is the only facility where there were infractions.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Again, Brigadier General Janice Karpinski yesterday with Soledad. General Karpinski, the first woman ever to lead U.S. troops in combat, has returned back to the U.S. to her civilian life as a business consultant, pending the results of this investigation. At 1:15 Eastern Time we are told live from the Pentagon, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld taking questions there. We will carry it live for you if, indeed, that schedule sticks this afternoon.
Once again, Heidi.
COLLINS: More violence in the Middle East, as more than 50 former U.S. diplomats slam President Bush's policy in that region. In Gaza today, Israeli troops launched an assault. Palestinian sources say two people killed, dozens more injured.
The helicopter attack came hours after Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said he would come up with an alternative plan for withdrawal from the region. And several diplomats today will hold a news conference to hold a open letter to President Bush that says the president's policy is costing the U.S. credibility.
It reads, in part, "By closing the door to negotiations with Palestinians and the possibility of a Palestinian state, you have proved that the United States is not an even-handed peace partner. You have placed U.S. diplomats, civilians and military doing their jobs overseas in an untenable and even dangerous position."
And presidential politics now. President Bush is in Ohio, where he's wrapping up a two-day Midwest campaign swing. Mr. Bush will make four stops today, beginning in the Toledo suburb of Maumee, continuing through Dayton and Lebanon, Ohio, and finishing up in Cincinnati.
Let's listen to the president now for just a moment.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want you to tell your friends and neighbors, as we seek the vote, as we garner support, that this administration has done things. And the only reason we look past to the past is to verify what we're going to do in the future to make this country safer and stronger and better.
I want you to know it's going to be a tough campaign. I'm under no illusions. And I look forward to it.
My energy level is high. My enthusiasm for the job is strong. I have a deep desire to serve the American people for four more years. But it's going to be a tough contest.
I'm fully aware of how tough it's going to be. I'm running against an experienced United States senator. He's been there a long time. He had been there so long he's just about on both sides of every issue.
COLLINS: As you know, he narrowly won Ohio four years ago, but Mr. Bush could be facing a tougher fight there this year, especially because the Buckeye State has lost more than 200,000 jobs since he took office.
Bill?
HEMMER: Likely Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry will unveil some education initiatives today on the campaign trail. Meanwhile, a $25 million TV ad campaign starting to air in key battleground states across the country. Candy Crowley now reports on that for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Democratic strategists say internal polling shows most Americans don't know much about John Kerry. Not even that he served in Vietnam, which is not good for a guy whose presidential bid is based on his war story. So now this...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he pulled me out of the river, he risked his life to save mine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In combat, he earned the Silver Star, the Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts. Then he came home determined to end that war. For more than 30 years, John Kerry has served America.
CROWLEY: Camp Kerry will tell the story of John Kerry in 19 states, and nationally on the cable channels. The $25 million ad buy is meant to counterbalance Bush ads in many of the same states which portrayed Kerry as weak on defense issues. And yet the president has held his ground, even moved up in some polls.
At the same time, Kerry has taken a beating both on the air and on the ground about his record in Vietnam, after Vietnam, and on Capitol Hill. Though some Democrats have said they're worried, this Democrat says he isn't.
JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're in good shape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know.
KERRY: We're just -- we keep plugging away. Americans aren't listening to all that junk. They want answers about healthcare and they want answers about jobs. They want to know, you know, if we're going to be safer.
CROWLEY: Strategists believe beyond the introduction to voters they can profit off comparisons of the positive nature of the Kerry ads versus the most recent ads from the Bush campaign.
(on camera): Twenty-five million dollars is a substantial chunk of change, and a message by itself that Kerry is both willing and able to give as good as he gets. Also worth noting, two states beyond the usual battlegrounds that are on the ad list: Colorado and Louisiana. The message there: either Democrats think they have a chance to win or they're a big enough threat they can force Republicans to spend a little money in defense.
Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Candy, thanks for that.
Senator Kerry making campaign stops today in Minnesota and New Mexico. He'll visit politically crucial California a bit later this week.
Heidi?
COLLINS: Still to come, department store makeovers at your neighborhood drugstore. Andy Serwer is going to explain that one.
HEMMER: Also, in a moment here, America's fear of fat. Sanjay talks to the author of "The Obesity Myth" and what you need to know, according to this author.
Back in a moment after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All right. Welcome back.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Despite public health warnings -- this is a really important topic. Despite public health warnings about the dangers of being overweight, a new book provides food for thought what the author claims is "The Obesity Myth." Paul Campos joins us now to talk about his book a the fear of body weight.
A really interesting book. I'm talking about "The Obesity Myth." I got a chance to look through it last night. A couple of points really struck me. Obesity is a myth, the American public has been fooled to some extent, and medical agencies are, in some ways, part of a conspiracy.
PAUL CAMPOS, AUTHOR, "THE OBESITY MYTH": Well, I wouldn't exactly call it a conspiracy, but I would say that we have a tremendous amount of misleading information being given out right now by public health agencies on this subject. For instance, the average American woman is now being told she needs to weigh between 108 and 127 pounds to be optimally healthy, according to, for instance, Harvard Medical School professors, who have a tremendous economic incentive in whipping up hysteria on the subject, which they very successfully have done. But, in fact, if you look at the medical and scientific literature, as many doctors and scientists and nutritionists agree, there isn't really any basis for that conclusion.
GUPTA: You know, some of the stuff, a lot of people say is astonishing, in terms of actually creating these disparities. Some of the numbers we actually looked up, and you talked about these numbers in your book as well.
Three hundred thousand premature deaths annually due to heart disease, Type II Diabetes, some cancers, breathing problems, arthritis, all in some way due to chronic obesity. How do you answer the health allegations? Is it OK? Is it safe to be overweight, to be obese?
CAMPOS: I think that that number, actually, is complete junk science, and has been demonstrated to be so by other doctors and scientists who have looked at it. And, actually, that number is generated by simply attributing all deaths that are in any way associated with a higher-than-average weight to being at a higher- than-average weight, which is just absurd. Because what actually causes an increased health risk are things like sedentary lifestyle, poverty, weight cycling, dieting. The diet industry is actually causing, in my view, most, if not all, of the problems that are actually blamed on overweight and obesity.
GUPTA: What is your solution? What do you recommend that people do?
CAMPOS: Well, I think what people ought to do is to recognize that being physically active is very beneficial to health, that eating a nutritious diet rich in fruits and vegetables and fibers is beneficial to health.
GUPTA: Aren't those things also related to losing weight?
CAMPOS: Only very, very mildly, because most people who move from unhealthy to healthy habits lose little or no weight but they get much, much healthier. So what we ought to be focusing on is getting people to engage in healthy lifestyle, not to focus on weight. Because people who diet, on average, end up weighing more than people who don't.
GUPTA: It's a good point. But how do you measure a healthy lifestyle? How do you tell someone, OK, you know what? You're living a healthy lifestyle now. Weight is a good parameter of that, is it not?
CAMPOS: Weight is not. Weight is a very poor proxy for good health. But there are million upon millions of Americans who have very healthy lifestyles and weigh more than the government says they ought to.
GUPTA: How do you measure is it? CAMPOS: How do you measure it? You measure it directly by seeing are people, in fact, active? Do people, in fact, eat nutritious food? For instance, the president of the United States is supposedly overweight according to his own public health agencies. And I don't see any evidence that he ought to be trying to lose weight for the purposes of becoming healthier.
GUPTA: You're a constitutional lawyer. You've had a syndicated column. Why did you write this book?
CAMPOS: Because when I started to look at the issue in regard to some things having to do with the Clinton impeachment, actually, which had a lot of weight related issues surrounding it, to my surprise...
GUPTA: How so?
CAMPOS: Well, Monica Lewinsky is a yo-yo dieter. And, essentially, the reason why there was a semen-stained dress in that -- that got Bill Clinton impeached was because it was in her fat closet. And she hadn't cleaned it because she was yo-yo dieting.
GUPTA: And that prompted you to write this?
CAMPOS: Yes, because when I started looking at the issue more broadly, I discovered that, in fact, there was this huge public health scandal which many doctors and scientists agree with what I'm saying in this book on the basic point.
GUPTA: The book is "The Obesity Myth." Thanks so much for joininging us. Interesting stuff.
CAMPOS: Thank you.
GUPTA: A topic to be continued.
HEMMER: What I want to know -- he's a good friend of ours, and we talk to him a lot about this stuff. And what Sanjay will always say is that every major disease in America in many ways can be traced to obesity. Are you saying that's not true?
CAMPOS: I'm saying that that is incorrect. That, in fact, if you look at other confounding variables, weight basically drops out of the picture. If you look at the other things that are more important to health, such as whether people are active, whether people have health insurance, whether people yo-you diet or not, which is terrible for their health, then the kinds of associations that we see between overweight and obesity basically disappear.
HEMMER: Oh, all right. Well, the debate will continue. Nice to see you.
Let's get a break here in a moment. Alan Greenspan is talking today. Is the market already on the move? You bet it is. Andy fills us in on which way it's going right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HEMMER: Wall Street is going to be all eyes and ears when the Fed meets a bit later today. And one drugstore chain going beyond skin deep with its beauty care. Andy has all of this for us, "Minding Your Business."
Good morning to you.
ANDY SERWER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, FORTUNE MAGAZINE: Good morning to you.
HEMMER: Twenty-five minutes into the day of trading.
SERWER: Yes.
HEMMER: How are they looking?
SERWER: We are bouncing all around this morning, as expected, Bill, because the big news is going to come at 2:15 this afternoon. Down five on the Dow Jones industrials -- 2:15 the question is, will he or won't he? He won't.
We're talking about Greenspan and interest rates. He's not going to raise them, no. Not this time. And if he does, boy, that will be some real fireworks.
Probably just going to change the statement. We're talking about the Federal Reserve chief, Alan Greenspan, with regard to interest rates, saying that the Fed is not so patient anymore looking at inflation, setting the stage for interest rate rise probably in June or August. You want to have fun today?
HEMMER: Yes.
SERWER: Tune into CNN at 2:15 today and watch the announcement, or go to cnnmoney.com and watch all the stuff happening, because the market will bounce around no matter what happens...
HEMMER: We shall.
SERWER: ... with regard to that.
What's moving this morning? Quickly, Tyco, good earnings. It's up a buck.
Clear Channel, we talked about the CEO having brain surgery. He's OK. And so are their earnings. So the stock is up $1, to $43. Quite a story down there in San Antonio this morning.
You want to talk about cosmetics?
HEMMER: Do we have time? CVS.
SERWER: We sure do -- one second. CVS. Thank you for shopping at CVS. Have you ever heard that?
HEMMER: Yes. SERWER: Huge drugstore chain getting into the cosmetics business. They sell about $5 billion a year of cosmetics at drugstores across the country. A very competitive business. So CVS is getting staffers with white jackets and certificates to sell cosmetics, just like the big department stores.
HEMMER: Thank you, Andy.
SERWER: You're welcome.
HEMMER: Heidi?
COLLINS: Jack now, the Question of the Day.
CAFFERTY: A billion dollars to be spent in total on the presidential campaign. The question is, how well are the candidates' tactics working?
Jim writes from Cambridge, "By definition, tactics are concerned with short-term goals. It seems rather fitting, since neither Bush nor Kerry have demonstrated any ability to put forth a plan relevant to the American people past getting elected."
Denise in Wisconsin, "I think the question should be, why are these two men on the road and not doing the job they're being paid to do? They seem to be taking an early lunch here. Suggestion: get back to work."
And Kay writes, "Don't despair, Jack. They'll be getting down to the issues as the election draws closer. The president has agreed to two debates with his challenger, although Kerry has suggested more. I'm sure the president would love to debate more but is somewhat limited by the availability of the vice president to accompany him to the debates."
HEMMER: Six months from Sunday.
Coming up next hour: an American prison experiment gone wrong. Can it help shed light on reports of mistreatment at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison? That's next hour with Daryn.
We are back in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Hey, listen, we've got to run. Thanks for being with us today.
SERWER: You're welcome. Good to see you.
HEMMER: Same time, same bat station tomorrow. I can hardly wait. Look at the big grin on that man's face.
CAFFERTY: You can tell he played golf yesterday.
HEMMER: Yes. CAFFERTY: He's much too...
HEMMER: A beautiful day, too, to be out there in the sunshine.
CAFFERTY: What did you shoot?
HEMMER: It was a scramble, so...
(CROSSTALK)
HEMMER: Not bad, though. It was OK.
CAFFERTY: He's trying to sound like that general at one of those prisons.
HEMMER: Here's Daryn Kagan at the CNN Center.
Aired May 4, 2004 - 9:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THOMAS HAMILL, FMR. IRAQI PRISONER: First and foremost, I would like to thank the American public for their support of all deployed in the Middle East.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: That was escaped hostage Thomas Hamill for the first time going public today in Germany and looking forward to his long-awaited trip back here on U.S. soil.
Authorities seize Michael Jackson memorabilia, including photos and a letter and a pair of underwear.
And the inferno raging in the backyard. Some homes already lost to wildfires; thousands more in danger today.
And ahead this hour on AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
HEMMER: All right. Welcome, everybody. Soledad is out this week. Heidi Collins is here with us on AMERICAN MORNING in New York City.
Welcome back.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you very much.
HEMMER: How are you guys getting along over there?
COLLINS: We're doing better. We're working on it. Relax. I want to let you know about some other stories we've been following...
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: People have been killed for less, you know.
HEMMER: They have. I'm a witness.
COLLINS: I'm keeping my distance.
We are going to hear the story of one of the men in those now famous pictures from Abu Ghraib Prison. And a little later, the general who was in charge of the prison will tell us who she thinks should bear some responsibility for what went on there. Very interesting words coming up.
HEMMER: Yes, and a continuing story again today.
Also, we're talking about a controversial sex crime case that changed the lives of two high school students. Supporters of Marcus Dixon say he received cruel and unusual punishment because he's black and his accuser is white. His 10-year sentence just overturned. We'll talk to his legal guardians and his attorney in a moment here.
COLLINS: First, we'll talk to Jack Cafferty.
CAFFERTY: Can I call those H&R people? What do they call them, the health...
HEMMER: Human resources.
CAFFERTY: I mean, grabbing at my stuff over here and everything. I don't know. That could be some sort of violation. I could get a big settlement.
COLLINS: Oh, what did we say about whining earlier?
CAFFERTY: The campaign for the White House is going to total $1 billion. And so far, we're getting a lot of nothing for the money, I think.
John Kerry is out with $25 million of TV ads that talks about first he was a little boy and then he wasn't, and then he went in the Army, then he got out, then he went to the Navy. That's where he is now.
Huh?
HEMMER: Navy.
CAFFERTY: Wherever.
And George Bush is on a bus driving around in two states where 500,000 people have lost their jobs, trying to connect with the common man. Big turnouts because nobody is working there. So the question is, what do you think about the campaign and all this money? Are we getting what we ought to be getting?
HEMMER: Six months to go, too.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
COLLINS: Long time. All right, Jack. Thanks so much. Want to get to the news this morning.
Thousands of people evacuated in southern California as firefighters battle wildfires there. Thousands of acres have been scorched from Los Angeles to San Diego counties. Dozens of homes are threatened, and triple-digit temperatures and erratic winds have made fighting the fires much more difficult. The so-called Middle East Quartet meeting in New York today to discuss the tattered roadmap to peace in the region. The conference comes on the heels of a new assault in Gaza. Palestinian sources say two people were killed, dozens other wounded in a helicopter attack. Israel says it was targeting Hamas members. There are also reports of an explosion in the West Bank.
New Jersey officials saying they have seized a number of items believed to have belonged to Michael Jackson. The items include a pair of underwear and photographs showing the entertainer with young boys. The items are part of an investigation in the child molestation case. CNN cannot independently verify who owned any of the items. Jackson has pleaded not guilty to all charges.
And the FBI is investigating a fast-spreading computer worm. Experts say at least four different versions of the Sasser computer worm are moving through Windows operating systems. The virus causes some computers to continually crash and reboot. If you find an e-mail that offers to fix the Sasser worm, delete it. It actually infects your computer with, yes, another virus. Pretty crafty.
HEMMER: That can be a mess, too.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: Thomas Hamill, the Mississippi truck driver who escaped his Iraqi captors over the weekend, expected to be reunited with his wife tomorrow. Today, Hamill made a brief appearance at the U.S. medical facility in Landstuhl, Germany, where he is now being treated for a gunshot wound to his right forearm. Chris Burns is there as well and joins us live with more.
Chris, good afternoon there.
CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Bill.
This is the same medical center where Jessica Lynch came through just last year. And Mr. Hamill is going through some of the same care, both psychological counseling, intel debriefing, and also medical treatment.
Doctors here say that he did suffer some pretty bad injuries to his right arm when he was shot in the arm. That back on April 9, when his fuel convoy was ambushed as he was driving that truck in that convoy. He lost some bone, some skin. They're giving him antibiotics, got him bandaged up.
He's going to have to have surgery when he gets back to the states possibly sometime later this week. In fact, he even had some surgery when he was in captivity, doctors say. Mr. Hamill did have a few words when he came out to see the cameras for the first time today. He had a few words, saying he's looking forward to going home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAMILL: I am feeling well and having few problems with my injury. I'd like everyone to know that I (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And I am looking forward to reuniting with my wife in the morning. And thank you so very much, and god bless.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNS: Now, Mr. Hamill didn't have any comment, didn't answer any questions. But doctors have been talking to him, and they do tell reporters and tell us that he had some pretty dramatic accounts about being captured and freeing himself.
When he was captured, he said that he heard a pop and a bang and a burning on his arm, and he saw that he was bleeding. He grabbed a sock off the windshield of his truck and started to tighten it to stop the bleeding. And that could have saved his life.
Later, when he was -- when he escaped just this last Sunday, he awoke to the sound of diesel engines. Right away, he knew those were not Iraqi vehicles, those were U.S. military vehicles, popped his head outside the door to make sure that's what they were, forced himself through the crack of the door and ran to safety -- Bill.
HEMMER: And as a truck driver, too, he would know that sound, the difference between a diesel engine and others.
Thanks, Chris. Great story today. Chris Burns in Germany.
Heidi?
COLLINS: More details now on the alleged abuse of Iraqi prisoners. A classified report on the alleged abuses obtained by CNN says egregious acts and grave breaches of international law occurred at the Abu Ghraib Prison. Six officers have received reprimands, a number of others are facing criminal charges or have been suspended.
Ben Wedeman has talked to some Iraqis who say they were abused at the prison. He's joining us live now in Baghdad -- Ben.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CAIRO BUREAU CHIEF: Yes, Heidi. In fact, I had a chance to speak with one of the men in those pictures, as well as other prisoners. And what does emerge is what appears to be a disturbing picture of what goes on in Abu Ghraib Prison.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN (voice-over): "That's me," says Haidar Sabar Ali (ph), prisoner 13077 at Abu Ghraib Prison. Coalition sources confirm to CNN prisoner number 13077 was one of the seven naked men in these photographs.
"They cut off our clothing with knives," he recalls. "We're Muslims. We don't go naked in front of our families. But there we were, naked in front of American women and men."
As Haidar (ph) he explains it, this was punishment for beating a prisoner they suspected of spying on them for the Americans. "This ordeal," he says, "went on for about four hours." "They were cursing at us," he says. "If you talked, they hit you hard in sensitive places, in the kidney, in the chest, in the throat. Our bodies were full of bruises. They didn't let us out of the cells until all our wounds had healed."
He said he was questioned by U.S. military intelligence after the incident and asked to describe those involved. "There are other pictures," he says. "American intelligence has them of dogs attacking us."
Abbas (ph) claims he was also a prisoner at Abu Ghraib, but not in any of the photographs. He didn't want his face to appear on camera. "They would put the plastic cuffs on someone and leave him outside for hours in the rain, in the cold," he tells me. "They would humiliate them, and this was just punishment for simple things."
The family of Whalid Ahmed Hedi (ph), a prisoner at Abu Ghraib, has just seen the pictures of alleged abuse of Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers. Whalid's (ph) mother, Buthana (ph), says one of the pictures was particularly disturbing.
"I felt as if this was Jesus crucified," she says. "I thought that could be my son."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN: Now Heidi, U.S. authorities here obviously take this matter very seriously. They're conducting a series of investigations into Abu Ghraib, changing some of their methods already. The new commander of the prison, Major General Jeffrey Miller, says that as of four days ago, they have discontinued the use of hooding, sleep deprivation, and stress positions, and that they will be reducing the prison population at Abu Ghraib by about half -- Heidi.
COLLINS: All right. Ben Wedeman, thanks so much for the very latest on that.
And we want to let you know, later this hour, we will have Soledad's interview with Brigadier General Janice Karpinski, the former military police commander at the Abu Ghraib Prison. That's at 9:30 Eastern.
HEMMER: About 10 minutes past the hour now.
The president continues a two-day Midwest campaign swing today, with four stops in Ohio. He left Detroit earlier today, heading toward his first stop in the Toledo suburbs. Mr. Bush narrowly won Ohio for years ago.
Dana Bash is in Maumee, Ohio, northern part of the state near Toledo.
Dana, what is the strategy there in the Buckeye State?
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill. Well, the president, as he rolls through Ohio today, is going to have a similar sales pitch to what we heard on day one of this bus tour in Michigan. But there is one crucial difference. Winning Michigan would be nice for the Bush campaign; winning Ohio is essential, because history shows that no president, particularly Republican, has gotten to the White House without winning Ohio.
But, Bill, just like Michigan, Ohio has seen devastating job loss on the president's watch. And so we expect the president to talk about the fact that, while he thinks the economy is getting better, he gets it, he understands that people in Ohio are hurting, but we do expect him to say that he thinks his tax cuts will eventually kick in, and that his challenger, John Kerry, has policies that will make things worse.
Now, we are currently outside of Toledo, a Toledo suburb where Al Gore won. Now, the president obviously won in 2000, but polls show he is neck and neck with John Kerry. So he is here trying to get this particular suburb on the Republican side. And we have four more stops. The last stop, Bill, is in Cincinnati, your home town.
HEMMER: Yes, that it is. Dana, in the meantime, this Iraqi abuse story continues to gather steam yet again today. The president talked about it at the White House last Friday. Others have suggested perhaps another public apology is due.
I'm not quite sure what the White House position is on that. What have you heard so far today?
BASH: Well, Bill, as the president has made his trip, he has certainly talked about the war in Iraq, defended the idea of going into Iraq. But he has not talked publicly at these events about the prisoner issue.
He did, however, give an interview to the Detroit Free Press, where he said that he was shaken by the pictures and, of course, by the alleged abuse. He also said, as we heard yesterday from the press secretary, that he has told the defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, that he wants to find out quickly whether or not this abuse was widespread or whether it was just localized to that particular prison.
But he also said that he is very concerned that it shows the U.S. as non-caring and non-compassionate. But we do know that the president was informed about this some time ago. We don't know when. And we also know from the president he also, like the defense secretary and like the chairman of the joint chiefs, had not seen the initial report about the abuses.
But he's speaking out, at least to local press. We possibly could hear more from him later today on that -- Bill.
HEMMER: We'll be tracking it along with you. Dana, thanks. Dana Bash there in northern Ohio, in Maumee.
COLLINS: Still to come, an honor student and star athlete is released from prison. His conviction tossed out by Georgia's highest court. Our interview with his family coming up next.
HEMMER: Also, health news today. Working to shed off the pounds this summer? Hear from one doctor who says being overweight has nothing to do with being unhealthy. We'll explain.
Still ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Nineteen-year-old Marcus Dixon is back home in Georgia after the state's highest court threw out his conviction on child molestation charges. Dixon spent 14 months in prison before his release yesterday on bond. The honor student and star athlete had received a mandatory 10-year sentence for having sex with an under-age classmate. But the court reversed that decision, saying the legislature most recently declared that sex between teenagers less than three years apart should be punished as misdemeanor statutory rape and not felony child molestation.
Earlier this morning, I spoke with Dixon's guardians, Ken and Peri Jones, and his attorney, David Balser, about the family's legal victory. I started by asking Perry how Marcus coped with being in prison the last several months.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PERI JONES, MARCUS DIXON'S GUARDIAN: The last two weeks were the most horrible. He mentioned that he was going to need serious counseling because of the way they treat you in prison. And he mentioned several times what happens, "what's going to happen if I die in here." So he was really depressed, and I think he felt like he was going to be in there for eight and a half more years.
COLLINS: Tell us a little bit more specifically about what he told you about that stay. Why had it gotten so much harder in the last couple of months?
JONES: Well, you know, we kept him motivated all along. It's just going to be a little bit longer. It's just going to be a little bit longer. And he had gotten to the point where he had heard that over and over, and, you know, he was just -- it was so bad there that he couldn't psych (ph) himself up anymore, you know?
And he wasn't there with friends and family, you know? There were no friends and family there with him. And so he had to do it all on his own.
COLLINS: Did you try to talk to him a little bit about his future, about his plans for his future, Peri?
JONES: You know, he really doesn't -- he just wants to -- this is what he said: he wants to chill and be with his friends and family right now. And he'll think about those things later. But I know that he wants to go to school. That's his next thing that he wants to get straightened out, is to go to school somewhere. COLLINS: Ken, what is your response, if I could, about the allegations? That the reason why, or part of the reason, that is, why Marcus was in jail is because he is black and his accuser is white. Do you think race is involved here?
KEN JONES, MARCUS DIXON'S GUARDIAN: Well, it's hard to deny that there wasn't any race there, you know? You don't like to look at it and you don't like to think that race would play a part in it, but, you know, when the young lady's own friends testified that they couldn't call her up at her house because they were black, you know, and that one of the statements she made that she was afraid that her father, if he found out about it, you know, they -- he would kill them, you know, because Marcus is black and she was white. You know, just those statements, you know, made it plain.
COLLINS: All right. I want to go ahead and bring in David Balser, of course the attorney for Marcus Dixon.
You know, David, prosecutors are planning to ask the Georgia Supreme Court to reconsider its decision. Is that likely? What do you think is going to happen here?
DAVID BALSER, MARCUS DIXON'S ATTORNEY: I have heard that they are intending to file a motion for reconsideration. I think it's unlikely the supreme court would change its decision . The decision was obviously very carefully crafted. It was well thought out.
It's a very well-reasoned decision. And I think it's highly unlikely the supreme court would change its mind after deliberating as long as they did in reaching the decision in this case.
COLLINS: Do you think, though, that the state's mandatory sentencing law could possibly be changed?
BALSER: Well, I think what was interesting about the opinion that the supreme court issued is that the supreme court made a direct plea to the General Assembly of Georgia to look at the way these laws intersect, to try to bring some ration nationality to the way the criminal laws apply to teenage conduct. Because the way the Georgia sex crime laws are written, they aren't really intended to deal with the situation in which there's consensual teenage sex. And I do think that the General Assembly has the opportunity to make some clarifications in the law so that other children don't face the same fate that Marcus did in this case.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Once again, that was Marcus Dixon's guardians, Ken and Peri Jones, and his attorney, David Balser, about the family's legal victory.
Bill?
HEMMER: About 21 minutes past the hour now.
Scott Peterson's defense attorneys want to move his double murder trial for a second time. Attorney Mark Geragos filed a motion yesterday seeking to move Peterson's trial to LA County. Geragos claims that an impartial jury cannot be seated in northern California. He contends it's too close to the apparent murder scene, Modesto, and San Francisco Bay, where the bodies of Peterson's wife and her unborn child were discovered.
In a moment here, Thomas Hamill now a free man waiting to meet his wife in Germany. The latest on what is happening there with the former hostage.
And new details of the allegations of prisoner abuse in Iraq. The American general who was in charge of the Iraqi prison system where those notorious pictures were taken.
Back in a moment after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All right. Back to the Question of the Day. Once again, here is Jack.
CAFFERTY: Thank you, Bill.
Presidential candidates looking for the best way to connect with the voters. And before it's done, the LA Times says a billion dollars will be spent on the presidential campaign.
John Kerry has launched a $25 million ad campaign, with TV ads that tell his life story. President Bush on a two-day bus tour through Michigan and Ohio, trying to work with working class voters in two states where some 500,000 people have lost their jobs. So the question we are picking around at this morning is, how well do the candidates' campaign tactics work?
Doug in Worcester, Ohio -- a lot of mail from Ohio -- "I was forced to retire during a downsizing craze. At 55, I was told, "Here's your opportunity to start a second career." Just what I had in mind. As if anyone wants to hire a retiree. At 58, my investments lost a third of their value and I worked three part-time jobs to pay bills, as my pension has actually decreased. I need a solution, not a billion-dollar campaign."
Gary in Bethlehem, Connecticut, "This degree of spending may be driven by the fact that the news networks, your own included, spend inordinate amounts of time focused on such circus acts as celebrity court cases and, far worse, coverage of TV shows such as "American Idol." Somehow, I don't remember Cronkite ever giving us a synopsis of what happened to the Beaver the night before."
I really like that letter, Gary. Thank you for that.
Susan in Baltimore, Maryland, "An uninformed electorate makes bad choices. But at this juncture, neither candidate is offering a vision for the future. Bush is using scare tactics, and Kerry's message is muddled." And Peggy in Durham, California, has this idea: "Who needs ads? I don't. Hook these candidates up to a lie detector, televise it, and the one who tells the least lies I'll vote for."
HEMMER: It would save us some money, would it not?
CAFFERTY: I don't recall Cronkite ever giving us a synopsis of what happened to the Beaver the night before.
COLLINS: That was good.
CAFFERTY: That is in the top ten of the letters...
(CROSSTALK)
HEMMER: Mark it down. Yes, Jay Leno on "The Tonight Show" last night taking shots at both sides, the president and the senator from Massachusetts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY LENO, TALK SHOW HOST: Hey, did you see this on the news yesterday? Senator John Kerry out riding his bike, fell off. Fell off his bicycle. Luckily, he landed on his wallet, so he was fine. He's OK.
Well, last month, he fell down while snowboarding. This month he falls off his bicycle. Last year, Bush choked on a pretzel and fell off his Segue (ph) scooter. Are these guys running for president or president of the sixth grade? What are they doing here?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: That was from last night. I was at the correspondence dinner Saturday night with 1,999 of my favorite people in the industry. Jay Leno, by far and away, the funniest comedian they have ever had at these dinners. He had the place absolutely in stitches.
CAFFERTY: Really?
HEMMER: Took a lot of stuff from his "Tonight Show" put it all together.
CAFFERTY: Did he tell real old jokes, like that thing about he landed on his wallet? Because that thing is older than I am.
HEMMER: He saved that, though.
COLLINS: He forgot one little piece, though, about the one time when the president dropped his dog. Remember when he was walking and he dropped the dog? Maybe he didn't want to recreate that. Too many people get upset about it.
Still to come this morning, Middle East peace efforts on the agenda today at the United Nations. That as President Bush is asked to change his policies. More details on it right here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
HEMMER: Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING. Heidi is working this week for Soledad O'Brien. We welcome her back to New York City.
COLLINS: Thank you so much.
HEMMER: I hope Soledad is getting some rest, some well-needed rest.
COLLINS: Yes.
HEMMER: She's doing a little extra time work for a lot of folks.
COLLINS: Yes. Including the two in her tummy.
HEMMER: That's exactly right.
COLLINS: Other stories we are following this morning: prison. We'll talk with a brigadier general who was in charge of Abu Ghraib Prison about what she knew about prisoner abuse, what she did about it, and who is ultimately responsible.
HEMMER: A pretty interesting interview, too.
Also this hour, a lot about the epidemic of obesity -- we hear that, anyway -- and all the health problems that stem from it. We'll hear from someone who says that connection may be a myth. We'll sort it out for you in a moment here.
COLLINS: First, though, we want to get to the news this morning. A former American hostage, Thomas Hamill, speaks in public for the first time since he broke away from kidnappers in Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAMILL: I'm looking forward to returning to America. First and foremost, I would like to thank the American public for their support of all deployed in the Middle East. Please keep your thoughts and prayers with those who are still there.
I am feeling well, and having few problems with my injury. I'd like everyone to know that I have (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And I am looking forward to reuniting with my wife in the morning. And thank you so very much, and god bless.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The 43-year-old contractor is getting medical treatment at a military facility in Germany. Hamill escaped from his captors on Sunday and linked up with U.S. troops.
Thousands of people evacuated in southern California as firefighters battle wildfires there. You see these pictures coming in from KABC. Some 8,000 acres have been scorched from Los Angeles to San Diego counties. Dozen of homes are threatened, and triple-digit temperatures and erratic winds have made fighting the fires more difficult.
Also in California, thousands turned out to remember fallen soldier and former NFL star Pat Tillman. Mourners gathered yesterday in Tillman's home town of San Jose to honor the man who left the Arizona Cardinals to join the Army. Tillman died last month in a firefight in Afghanistan near the Pakistan border.
And St. Louis Blues hockey player Mike Danton heads to court today to face federal charges in connection with a murder-for-hire plot. Danton has been in jail in Illinois, and prosecutors say Danton and a 19-year-old woman tried to hire a hit man for 10,000 to kill his acquaintance.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: More details emerging on the alleged abuse of Iraqi prisoners today. Major General Jeffrey Miller, now in charge of prisons in Iraq, said he's already changing things in the prisons and that, "errors were made; we have corrected them." A classified report on the alleged abuses obtained by CNN says, "Egregious acts and grave breaches of international law occurred at the Abu Ghraib prison."
Six officers so far receiving reprimands. A number of others facing criminal charges, or have been suspended.
Brigadier General Janice Karpinski, the former military police commander at the Abu Ghraib Prison, among those suspended while an investigation is under way. Yesterday, the general, who since rotated out of Iraq, talked with our own Soledad O'Brien. Soledad started by asking her about her reaction about the report of the alleged abuses.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIG. GEN. JANICE KARPINSKI, ARMY RESERVE: The accusations were without foundation, that this was not a military police leadership issue. Specifically, this was a much broader responsibility, and that particular cell block was under the control of the military intelligence command at the time. And, in fact, from November on, Abu Ghraib Prison was under control of the military intelligence command.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: You had no control over this facility after a certain point?
KARPINSKI: I can't say no control at a certain point. But it was certainly far less control. And the reason I retained any control is because I had MPs that were still working out there, and they remained under the 800th MP Brigade.
O'BRIEN: Were you aware that some of your soldiers were involved in this or were taking pictures of some of the things that were going on?
KARPINSKI: Absolutely not. Absolutely had no knowledge. Not even a hint or a suggestion of any such activities.
O'BRIEN: And one of the most disturbing things I think about these pictures is the servicemen and women who are standing there smiling with thumb's up.
KARPINSKI: I agree.
O'BRIEN: While people are in these incredibly -- who are those soldiers? Are they your soldiers?
KARPINSKI: Yes. In those particular pictures that have been released, they are my MP soldiers, yes. The ones that you can see.
O'BRIEN: Explain that to me. I mean, I guess -- that kind of behavior just seems so out of left field to me.
KARPINSKI: And I agree. I mean...
O'BRIEN: Is it just a few bad eggs, apples, as we heard General Myers sort of refer to over the weekend, or is it a much bigger problem than that? Because they don't look embarrassed that they're -- they weren't caught sort of somehow in a picture. They're posing for a picture like the one they're sending back home to their friends.
KARPINSKI: Setting them up. I mean -- and enjoying it. And that was one of the most despicable aspects of those pictures, those faces on those soldiers, those soldiers who belonged to one of my MP companies, absolutely.
I don't know how they do this. I don't know how they allow -- they allowed these activities to get so out of control. But I do know with almost absolute confidence that they didn't wake up one day and decide to do this.
O'BRIEN: So you think what happened?
KARPINSKI: I think it is likely that the military intelligence people used the military police personnel in a support way. In other words, leave the lights on in the cell, turn the lights off in the cell, make sure that they get their meal late, take them out more often, don't let them get any sleep, because they were conducting the detention operations. They could control the light switches, they could control the food processing, whatever goes with detention operations.
O'BRIEN: None of your soldiers said this is not a gray area, I'm not supposed to do this?
KARPINSKI: They may have said it, but they didn't say it to me. And they didn't say it to a battalion commander who would have said it to me. And they didn't say it to a company commander, who would have said it to a battalion commander, who would have said it to me.
They did not. If they said it to anybody, if they mentioned it or had any concerns, then I believe that they would have mentioned it to the MI people who were instructing them or encouraging them -- I don't know if that's too strong of a word -- to follow these particular procedures.
O'BRIEN: Do you deserve some of the blame in this that's gone around?.
KARPINSKI: I certainly take the responsibility for some of this, yes. Because those soldiers were assigned to a company under my command.
Blame? I don't think that the blame rests with me or with the 800th MP Brigade. In fact, it's unfair, because we had 3,400 soldiers and 16 facilities, and this was the only facility where interrogation operations were taking place. And this is the only facility where there were infractions.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Again, Brigadier General Janice Karpinski yesterday with Soledad. General Karpinski, the first woman ever to lead U.S. troops in combat, has returned back to the U.S. to her civilian life as a business consultant, pending the results of this investigation. At 1:15 Eastern Time we are told live from the Pentagon, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld taking questions there. We will carry it live for you if, indeed, that schedule sticks this afternoon.
Once again, Heidi.
COLLINS: More violence in the Middle East, as more than 50 former U.S. diplomats slam President Bush's policy in that region. In Gaza today, Israeli troops launched an assault. Palestinian sources say two people killed, dozens more injured.
The helicopter attack came hours after Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said he would come up with an alternative plan for withdrawal from the region. And several diplomats today will hold a news conference to hold a open letter to President Bush that says the president's policy is costing the U.S. credibility.
It reads, in part, "By closing the door to negotiations with Palestinians and the possibility of a Palestinian state, you have proved that the United States is not an even-handed peace partner. You have placed U.S. diplomats, civilians and military doing their jobs overseas in an untenable and even dangerous position."
And presidential politics now. President Bush is in Ohio, where he's wrapping up a two-day Midwest campaign swing. Mr. Bush will make four stops today, beginning in the Toledo suburb of Maumee, continuing through Dayton and Lebanon, Ohio, and finishing up in Cincinnati.
Let's listen to the president now for just a moment.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want you to tell your friends and neighbors, as we seek the vote, as we garner support, that this administration has done things. And the only reason we look past to the past is to verify what we're going to do in the future to make this country safer and stronger and better.
I want you to know it's going to be a tough campaign. I'm under no illusions. And I look forward to it.
My energy level is high. My enthusiasm for the job is strong. I have a deep desire to serve the American people for four more years. But it's going to be a tough contest.
I'm fully aware of how tough it's going to be. I'm running against an experienced United States senator. He's been there a long time. He had been there so long he's just about on both sides of every issue.
COLLINS: As you know, he narrowly won Ohio four years ago, but Mr. Bush could be facing a tougher fight there this year, especially because the Buckeye State has lost more than 200,000 jobs since he took office.
Bill?
HEMMER: Likely Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry will unveil some education initiatives today on the campaign trail. Meanwhile, a $25 million TV ad campaign starting to air in key battleground states across the country. Candy Crowley now reports on that for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Democratic strategists say internal polling shows most Americans don't know much about John Kerry. Not even that he served in Vietnam, which is not good for a guy whose presidential bid is based on his war story. So now this...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he pulled me out of the river, he risked his life to save mine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In combat, he earned the Silver Star, the Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts. Then he came home determined to end that war. For more than 30 years, John Kerry has served America.
CROWLEY: Camp Kerry will tell the story of John Kerry in 19 states, and nationally on the cable channels. The $25 million ad buy is meant to counterbalance Bush ads in many of the same states which portrayed Kerry as weak on defense issues. And yet the president has held his ground, even moved up in some polls.
At the same time, Kerry has taken a beating both on the air and on the ground about his record in Vietnam, after Vietnam, and on Capitol Hill. Though some Democrats have said they're worried, this Democrat says he isn't.
JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're in good shape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know.
KERRY: We're just -- we keep plugging away. Americans aren't listening to all that junk. They want answers about healthcare and they want answers about jobs. They want to know, you know, if we're going to be safer.
CROWLEY: Strategists believe beyond the introduction to voters they can profit off comparisons of the positive nature of the Kerry ads versus the most recent ads from the Bush campaign.
(on camera): Twenty-five million dollars is a substantial chunk of change, and a message by itself that Kerry is both willing and able to give as good as he gets. Also worth noting, two states beyond the usual battlegrounds that are on the ad list: Colorado and Louisiana. The message there: either Democrats think they have a chance to win or they're a big enough threat they can force Republicans to spend a little money in defense.
Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Candy, thanks for that.
Senator Kerry making campaign stops today in Minnesota and New Mexico. He'll visit politically crucial California a bit later this week.
Heidi?
COLLINS: Still to come, department store makeovers at your neighborhood drugstore. Andy Serwer is going to explain that one.
HEMMER: Also, in a moment here, America's fear of fat. Sanjay talks to the author of "The Obesity Myth" and what you need to know, according to this author.
Back in a moment after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All right. Welcome back.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Despite public health warnings -- this is a really important topic. Despite public health warnings about the dangers of being overweight, a new book provides food for thought what the author claims is "The Obesity Myth." Paul Campos joins us now to talk about his book a the fear of body weight.
A really interesting book. I'm talking about "The Obesity Myth." I got a chance to look through it last night. A couple of points really struck me. Obesity is a myth, the American public has been fooled to some extent, and medical agencies are, in some ways, part of a conspiracy.
PAUL CAMPOS, AUTHOR, "THE OBESITY MYTH": Well, I wouldn't exactly call it a conspiracy, but I would say that we have a tremendous amount of misleading information being given out right now by public health agencies on this subject. For instance, the average American woman is now being told she needs to weigh between 108 and 127 pounds to be optimally healthy, according to, for instance, Harvard Medical School professors, who have a tremendous economic incentive in whipping up hysteria on the subject, which they very successfully have done. But, in fact, if you look at the medical and scientific literature, as many doctors and scientists and nutritionists agree, there isn't really any basis for that conclusion.
GUPTA: You know, some of the stuff, a lot of people say is astonishing, in terms of actually creating these disparities. Some of the numbers we actually looked up, and you talked about these numbers in your book as well.
Three hundred thousand premature deaths annually due to heart disease, Type II Diabetes, some cancers, breathing problems, arthritis, all in some way due to chronic obesity. How do you answer the health allegations? Is it OK? Is it safe to be overweight, to be obese?
CAMPOS: I think that that number, actually, is complete junk science, and has been demonstrated to be so by other doctors and scientists who have looked at it. And, actually, that number is generated by simply attributing all deaths that are in any way associated with a higher-than-average weight to being at a higher- than-average weight, which is just absurd. Because what actually causes an increased health risk are things like sedentary lifestyle, poverty, weight cycling, dieting. The diet industry is actually causing, in my view, most, if not all, of the problems that are actually blamed on overweight and obesity.
GUPTA: What is your solution? What do you recommend that people do?
CAMPOS: Well, I think what people ought to do is to recognize that being physically active is very beneficial to health, that eating a nutritious diet rich in fruits and vegetables and fibers is beneficial to health.
GUPTA: Aren't those things also related to losing weight?
CAMPOS: Only very, very mildly, because most people who move from unhealthy to healthy habits lose little or no weight but they get much, much healthier. So what we ought to be focusing on is getting people to engage in healthy lifestyle, not to focus on weight. Because people who diet, on average, end up weighing more than people who don't.
GUPTA: It's a good point. But how do you measure a healthy lifestyle? How do you tell someone, OK, you know what? You're living a healthy lifestyle now. Weight is a good parameter of that, is it not?
CAMPOS: Weight is not. Weight is a very poor proxy for good health. But there are million upon millions of Americans who have very healthy lifestyles and weigh more than the government says they ought to.
GUPTA: How do you measure is it? CAMPOS: How do you measure it? You measure it directly by seeing are people, in fact, active? Do people, in fact, eat nutritious food? For instance, the president of the United States is supposedly overweight according to his own public health agencies. And I don't see any evidence that he ought to be trying to lose weight for the purposes of becoming healthier.
GUPTA: You're a constitutional lawyer. You've had a syndicated column. Why did you write this book?
CAMPOS: Because when I started to look at the issue in regard to some things having to do with the Clinton impeachment, actually, which had a lot of weight related issues surrounding it, to my surprise...
GUPTA: How so?
CAMPOS: Well, Monica Lewinsky is a yo-yo dieter. And, essentially, the reason why there was a semen-stained dress in that -- that got Bill Clinton impeached was because it was in her fat closet. And she hadn't cleaned it because she was yo-yo dieting.
GUPTA: And that prompted you to write this?
CAMPOS: Yes, because when I started looking at the issue more broadly, I discovered that, in fact, there was this huge public health scandal which many doctors and scientists agree with what I'm saying in this book on the basic point.
GUPTA: The book is "The Obesity Myth." Thanks so much for joininging us. Interesting stuff.
CAMPOS: Thank you.
GUPTA: A topic to be continued.
HEMMER: What I want to know -- he's a good friend of ours, and we talk to him a lot about this stuff. And what Sanjay will always say is that every major disease in America in many ways can be traced to obesity. Are you saying that's not true?
CAMPOS: I'm saying that that is incorrect. That, in fact, if you look at other confounding variables, weight basically drops out of the picture. If you look at the other things that are more important to health, such as whether people are active, whether people have health insurance, whether people yo-you diet or not, which is terrible for their health, then the kinds of associations that we see between overweight and obesity basically disappear.
HEMMER: Oh, all right. Well, the debate will continue. Nice to see you.
Let's get a break here in a moment. Alan Greenspan is talking today. Is the market already on the move? You bet it is. Andy fills us in on which way it's going right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HEMMER: Wall Street is going to be all eyes and ears when the Fed meets a bit later today. And one drugstore chain going beyond skin deep with its beauty care. Andy has all of this for us, "Minding Your Business."
Good morning to you.
ANDY SERWER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, FORTUNE MAGAZINE: Good morning to you.
HEMMER: Twenty-five minutes into the day of trading.
SERWER: Yes.
HEMMER: How are they looking?
SERWER: We are bouncing all around this morning, as expected, Bill, because the big news is going to come at 2:15 this afternoon. Down five on the Dow Jones industrials -- 2:15 the question is, will he or won't he? He won't.
We're talking about Greenspan and interest rates. He's not going to raise them, no. Not this time. And if he does, boy, that will be some real fireworks.
Probably just going to change the statement. We're talking about the Federal Reserve chief, Alan Greenspan, with regard to interest rates, saying that the Fed is not so patient anymore looking at inflation, setting the stage for interest rate rise probably in June or August. You want to have fun today?
HEMMER: Yes.
SERWER: Tune into CNN at 2:15 today and watch the announcement, or go to cnnmoney.com and watch all the stuff happening, because the market will bounce around no matter what happens...
HEMMER: We shall.
SERWER: ... with regard to that.
What's moving this morning? Quickly, Tyco, good earnings. It's up a buck.
Clear Channel, we talked about the CEO having brain surgery. He's OK. And so are their earnings. So the stock is up $1, to $43. Quite a story down there in San Antonio this morning.
You want to talk about cosmetics?
HEMMER: Do we have time? CVS.
SERWER: We sure do -- one second. CVS. Thank you for shopping at CVS. Have you ever heard that?
HEMMER: Yes. SERWER: Huge drugstore chain getting into the cosmetics business. They sell about $5 billion a year of cosmetics at drugstores across the country. A very competitive business. So CVS is getting staffers with white jackets and certificates to sell cosmetics, just like the big department stores.
HEMMER: Thank you, Andy.
SERWER: You're welcome.
HEMMER: Heidi?
COLLINS: Jack now, the Question of the Day.
CAFFERTY: A billion dollars to be spent in total on the presidential campaign. The question is, how well are the candidates' tactics working?
Jim writes from Cambridge, "By definition, tactics are concerned with short-term goals. It seems rather fitting, since neither Bush nor Kerry have demonstrated any ability to put forth a plan relevant to the American people past getting elected."
Denise in Wisconsin, "I think the question should be, why are these two men on the road and not doing the job they're being paid to do? They seem to be taking an early lunch here. Suggestion: get back to work."
And Kay writes, "Don't despair, Jack. They'll be getting down to the issues as the election draws closer. The president has agreed to two debates with his challenger, although Kerry has suggested more. I'm sure the president would love to debate more but is somewhat limited by the availability of the vice president to accompany him to the debates."
HEMMER: Six months from Sunday.
Coming up next hour: an American prison experiment gone wrong. Can it help shed light on reports of mistreatment at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison? That's next hour with Daryn.
We are back in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Hey, listen, we've got to run. Thanks for being with us today.
SERWER: You're welcome. Good to see you.
HEMMER: Same time, same bat station tomorrow. I can hardly wait. Look at the big grin on that man's face.
CAFFERTY: You can tell he played golf yesterday.
HEMMER: Yes. CAFFERTY: He's much too...
HEMMER: A beautiful day, too, to be out there in the sunshine.
CAFFERTY: What did you shoot?
HEMMER: It was a scramble, so...
(CROSSTALK)
HEMMER: Not bad, though. It was OK.
CAFFERTY: He's trying to sound like that general at one of those prisons.
HEMMER: Here's Daryn Kagan at the CNN Center.
