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President Bush's National Security Team Voices Outrage Over Prison Abuses; 'Paging Dr. Gupta'

Aired May 05, 2004 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: 8:30 here in New York. Welcome back, everybody. Heidi is in for Soledad.
Good morning again.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you.

Rumors that Secretary of State Colin Powell would leave the Bush administration have been floating around for years, as you know, but we're going to hear from a reporter who will tell us why Secretary Powell may be ready to quit before the year is out.

HEMMER: Some are suggesting no big surprise there, if indeed it happens that way, if that's the case. We'll get to that.

Also this hour, Sanjay has been breathing fire this week, been walking on broken glass. Today he tries something that defy the most basic human instinct. That's what they call it a tease. Figure that bad boy out in a second here.

Top stories here at the half hour, now U.S. forces launching a massive operation, they say, in southern Iraq against militants loyal to a wanted Shiite cleric. Military officials said troops took over the office of Muqtada Al Sadr 40 miles east of the holy city of Najaf. Soldiers also raiding a girls' school, seizing weapons believed to have been used by the Mahdi Army in attacks. At least one U.S. soldier injured in that operation today in Iraq.

The Greek government calling today's bombings in Athens isolated, and saying they have no effect on the safety of Olympic participants in that country. A series of explosions damaging parts of a police station. No injuries luckily. Officials that evacuated the building before that attack after a tip from an anonymous caller. The blast comes as Greece now begins a 100-day countdown to the Summer Games.

Sudan has been elected to serve on the U.N. Human Rights Commission. The selection sparked a walkout protest from a senior U.S. diplomat who condemned Sudan for supporting ethnic cleansing in one region in that country. Sudan's rep responding to U.S. criticism, citing the treatment of Iraqi prisoners in Baghdad's Abu Ghraib Prison. That was the scene at the U.N.

U.S. senators have taken steps to protect overtime pay. The Senate approved a measure yesterday to block any regulation that strips workers of their eligibility for overtime. The vote came despite heavy lobbying by the White House. The move is considered a victory for organized labor.

A news helicopter here in New York City made its own news after a crash while covering a story. Here's the videotape. The chopper and crew were covering a shooting story in Brooklyn when the helicopter spun out of control, clipped a building and miraculously crash onto the roof. But yet, all three people inside were OK. They suffered some injuries, but they were all right. They lived, pulled out of that chopper. And that was all the talk late yesterday here in New York City.

COLLINS: That's the reporter right there getting out. Obviously, very shaken up. The second time I've seen it now. It's just unbelievable.

HEMMER: Yes, that it is. Yes, three extremely lucky people as a result of that from yesterday.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COLLINS: The U.S. commander of the Iraqi prison system has issued an apology to the people of Iraq for the alleged abuse of prisoners at the Abu Ghraib Prison outside Baghdad. That apology comes as President Bush prepares to address the scandal in two interviews on television networks that are seen across the Arab world.

Yesterday most of the president's national security team, including Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, voiced their outrage.

Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In his first Pentagon news conference since the pictures surfaced one week ago today, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld promised to hold those responsible accountable.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECY.: The action of the soldiers in those photographs are totally unacceptable and un-American.

MCINTYRE: The pictures put Rumsfeld in the uncomfortable position of having to explain the difference between the abuse by the U.S. military and the torture and murder by the regime of Saddam Hussein.

RUMSFELD: Equating the two, I think, is a fundamental misunderstanding of what took place.

MCINTYRE: With some in Congress calling for hearings, the Pentagon dispatched the Army's No. 2 general to reassure members it could investigate itself.

GEN. GEORGE CASEY, ARMY VICE CHIEF OF STAFF: We are fully committed to getting to the bottom of this and holding accountable those who we find guilty through the judicial process. MCINTYRE: So far, a dozen people have been reprimanded or face criminal charges. But even with the investigation still under way, the Army is saying this is an isolated case.

SEN. CARL LEVIN (D), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: There were a number of allegations of prisoner abuse in both Afghanistan and in Iraq, but we were assured that none were similar to this type of abuse.

MCINTYRE: The Army says there were 25 prisoners who died while in U.S. custody in Iraq or Afghanistan. Twelve of the deaths were said to be from natural causes, but two were homicides, and a third a possible homicide. One incident was ruled justifiable when a U.S. soldier shot an escaping prisoner.

(on camera): Rumsfeld has acknowledged the revelations have undercut the Pentagon's war of ideas in the Arab world, but he declined to offer any apology.

Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Several changes are being made at the Abu Ghraib Prison in light of the scandal. The prison's population is being cut by about half, and some interrogation techniques, including putting hood over prisoners' heads, are also being discontinued.

HEMMER: To politics, Heidi, presidential campaign. The president back at the White House after campaigning in the Midwest the last two days, returning late last night after a two-day bus tour across Michigan first and then the state of Ohio. The president criticized John Kerry, saying the Democratic senator would likely raise taxes on the middle class. The president also insisting that Democracy will prevail in Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Watch and see how he'll react and whether we cut and run or whether we're good for our word. You don't have to worry about me. I don't care what the politics are. I don't care what the pressures are. We will make sure that we fulfill our mission in Iraq and Iraq is free.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Meanwhile, further West in the campaign trail in New Mexico, Democratic candidate John Kerry reading to children at an Albuquerque elementary school. Earlier, Senator Kerry criticized the president's education policies. The kids, though, were more interested in something else there in Albuquerque.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED CHILDREN: Good afternoon, Senator Kerry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you touch the roof?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're tall.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am tall.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Senator Kerry did vote for President Bush's "no child left behind" education policy. He contends that the president has not enforced key graduation provisions, and says the president repeatedly opposes initiatives to increase the graduation rate. That's on the trail.

Let's get back to D.C. and the fallout right now from the current cabinet. Though military and political war, Secretary of State Colin Powell has been a good soldier in the White House. An article, though, in the June issue of "GQ" magazine says Powell remains outside the president's inner circle and has had enough. When asked about it last night on "LARRY KING LIVE," the secretary of state says, he was a bit noncommittal last night with Larry King.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, SECY. OF STATE: I serve at the pleasure of the president. It's the only answer you can give to a question like that. I am honored to be serving, as I said earlier. I didn't think I'd be coming back in the government after I retired as chairman of the joint chiefs of staff.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: "GQ" writer-at-large Wil Hylton had access to Powell and those closest to the secretary for this article. He's live in Austin, Texas to talk about his new article that's out again in the June edition.

Good morning to you, and thanks for your time here.

Part of your article quotes the chief of staff, Larry Wilkinson, for secretary of state on screen, you write, "He's tired," that's a quote, "mentally and physically, and if the president were to ask him to stay on, if the president is re-elected and the president were to ask him to stay on, he might for a transitional period, but I don't think he'd want to do another four years."

Based on the reporting you have, is he out?

WIL HYLTON, "GQ" MAGAZINE: Yes. Larry was one of only maybe six or 10 people who said that, so he was not alone. And they were all Powell's closest friends and advisers. In fact, Powell had set me up to interview these friends and advisers. So it seems clear not only the unanimity among them evidences that it's the truth, but also that Powell wants people to be prepared for this and to know that.

HEMMER: Pretty normal for a lot of cabinet members to leave at the end of a first term. Is this that much of a surprise? HYLTON: I think what was most surprising to me was the other things that these friends and advisers to Powell said, and then especially knowing that Powell had instructed them to speak with me. And they were saying things like, you know, Powell is not comfortable with the president's vision, or Powell is very frustrated by his battles with the Pentagon.

Secretary Armitage is Powell's No. 2 guy, the deputy secretary of state, said to me that Powell's speech at the U.N. last year when he made the case that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction and has stockpiles of them, that it is a source of great distress for the secretary. And these kinds of things showing Powell's bitterness, and exhaustion and frustration, haven't really been said on the record by Powell's close friends and advisers. It was very surprising.

HEMMER: Why does he make this speech if he was so uncomfortable with it?

HYLTON: That's one of the most interesting things about it. In my experience speaking with Powell, he was very much the same way he was with Larry King last night. As you described, he was reluctant, he's very cautious, and I think that it's become clear, as "The New York Times" said in one of their editorials, that Powell wants to have it both ways, he wants to be seen as the guy who knew Iraq was going to be difficult and had reservations about it in advance, but he also wants to be a loyal soldier. And I think his experience in the military is related to that.

HEMMER: Another topic here, every time Colin Powell does an interview about the weapons of mass destruction, prewar intelligence, et cetera, he always cites these U.N. resolutions, that were passed and proposed at the U.N. here in New York City. How much do you believe these comments from the chief of staff and others that you've talked to and interviewed? Is Colin Powell separating himself from what he had a year, maybe a year and a half ago regarding Iraq and what's happening now, and trying to distance himself from that war?

HYLTON: I think what happened to Powell is that -- and I got this also from these friends and advisers, his chief of staff, his deputy secretary of state, is that he's looked at the evidence he was asked to bring to the United Nations, and he said this is just -- this is not accurate. He went down to the CIA, and he spent four days and three nights there, and everybody described it to me as a big fight. I mean, shouting, middle of the night arguing about things. Powell saying, this is not good enough. This is not solid evidence and throwing things out left and right, truckloads of evidence being tossed aside. And him saying, I will not go the United Nations, I will not go to the world with this stuff.

And finally, they reduced it to down to a list of claims that he apparently believed at the time, and since then, it's become clear that there are probably aren't stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons in Iraq, and I think that's what the greatest source of distress for the secretary is.

HEMMER: But what you're saying is that if you whittle away the number of arguments he felt comfortable, he went forward with those that he felt comfortable with. Is that where he comes down on this issue. Then that goes back to the original question of, why go forward with it for a speech that is so critical and so important for the United States and the world for that matter? Why not stop and say, you know what, guys, you need to keep the powder dry?

HYLTON: You know, it would be great to ask Powell that question, and it would be even better if he answered forthrightly. I have to rely on that...

HEMMER: What did his chief of staff say?

HYLTON: His chief of staff gave me the impression, as well as Harlan Oldman (ph), his mentor for the War College, and Deputy Secretary Armitage, they all gave me the impression that Powell believed this evidence that he brought to the U.N. at the time, and that since then, he's become aware that he didn't filter enough stuff out, that he should have filtered everything out, because none of it was accurate.

HEMMER: All right, much more to come. "GQ" magazine, Wil Hylton, thanks, there live in Austin, Texas, sharing his reporting with us today.

COLLINS: Still to come this morning, the first wildfires of the season in Southern California, forcing hundreds of people now out of their homes. A live shot, as you see, from KTTV Television. This is Corona, California.

Once again, we will have a live report coming up in our next hour.

HEMMER: Also in a moment here, what's going on between Major League Baseball and Spider-man? Andy has that in business.

COLLINS: And Dr. Sanjay Gupta with more in his "Life Beyond Limits" series. This time, take a deep breath. He's taking us on a watery adventure. Don't miss it, coming up soon on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: This week, Dr. Sanjay Gupta is exploring life beyond limits. His special series looks at how and why people are driven to extremes. This morning, Sanjay's taking a deep breath and holding it for a long time on a watery adventure, joining us now to explain.

Wow, this is impressive.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It really was very interesting. Tonya Streeter, world's freediving champion, I had her as a coach, so I was pretty well set off. No slouch for sure with her.

But holding your breath can be difficult. Everybody knows that. But what I found out, it's much more of a mental challenge than a physical one. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA (voice-over): Tonya Streeter broke the world record in a discipline called no limits freediving. She rode a weighted sled down 525 feet and then returned to the surface. The round-trip took more than three minutes. To stay under water that long, you need to overcome the most basic instinct, to breathe.

TONYA STREETER: Human physiology is usually going to take you to three minutes if your mind lets you.

GUPTA: Streeter says we're all born with this skill, if we can learn to ignore the urgent signal the brain gets to take in air.

My attempts hover at breath holding hover around a minute initially, even though my body still has plenty of oxygen. On my seventh attempt, I break through, and hold my breath for 2 minutes and 17 seconds.

STREETER: So that is much, much, much, much better.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: Two minutes, 17 seconds. That was pretty. That was impressive. For me, I started off at 2 minutes and 17 seconds. And it was important, Tonya points out, and really important to point out as well, that you can black out when you're trying to hold your breath for that long.

COLLINS: Oh, I'm sure.

GUPTA: You need to have somebody there with you. That's a basic safety thing, and that's what they taught us.

COLLINS: Unbelievable. I'm impressed, Sanjay.

You'll also want make sure to tune in for Sanjay's special report, a series, "Life Beyond Limits." It's this Sunday night at 9:00 Eastern. You'll see more of that report and more breath holding.

All right, Bill, over to you.

HEMMER: All right, Heidi, in a moment here, baseball goes Hollywood. All for the benefit of an upcoming movie. Andy is coming up with the tangled details. In a moment here, back with Andy and Jack, after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Welcome back, everybody.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Say it ain't so. Baseball is using its bases to promote a movie. Now with that, and a market preview, Andy Serwer is here "Minding Your Business." They're going to run out of stuff to hang ads on at one of these points.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: They are, and I can hear the purest screaming all the way to Cooperstown, Jack.

Well, wait until you hear about this, "The Wall Street Journal" exclusive reporting this morning that Major League Baseball has agreed to allow "Spider-man 2" to plaster its promotional logo, which is to say a red spider web, on the bases during baseball games. There's Spider-Man. He's coming. He's going to first. Who's on first? Spider-man. they are going to put it on first, they're going to put it on second, they're going to put in on third. They're not going to put it on home plate. That's sacred. They're going to put it on the pitcher's rubber. They're going to put it on the on-deck circle. It is a little bit sacrilege. And you know,hockey has got that. They have ads in there. We talked about jockeys at the Kentucky Derby. That whole controversy, they put the ads. They were so small, no one ever saw them.

HEMMER: Yes, they sure were. I was looking for them all day.

CAFFERTY: Can we make extra money if we sold space on our shirts and stuff here?

SERWER: If we could, that would be great. I've got some other ideas for baseball. They could put ads on the ball for "Monster's Ball." For the bat, they could promote Batman. For the catcher's mask, they could do "Mask." I mean, there's a lot of things they could do once they start -- baseball is seen as sort of not being as cool as basketball or football, so they are trying to catch up.

CAFFERTY: This will not make baseball cooler.

SERWER: Not in your book.

CAFFERTY: No.

How about the markets? The markets were all over the map yesterday, like they never heard of Alan Greenspan and the Federal Reserve.

SERWER: They did dance around right after the announcement at 2:15. We have a chart showing the action. In the end, here we go, up. It was a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.

CAFFERTY: I mean, there was over 100-point swing. Look at this nonsense.

SERWER: Yes, and so it's really not a lot of stuff there.

CAFFERTY: Like Hemmer's cardiac monitor.

HEMMER: After working with you.

SERWER: What's happening today, the market is probably going breathe a sigh of relief. We've got flat futures right now. Coke has a new CEO, . Neville Isdell, an Irishman. Royal Bank of Scotland -- a lot of British Isles stuff going on there -- buying Cleveland's Charter One Bank for $10 billion.

CAFFERTY: That's a big deal.

SERWER: That's a big bank.

CAFFERTY: Thank you, chief.

SERWER: You're welcome.

CAFFERTY: On to the File now. It's Wednesday.

Things people said in the last week that were dumb enough to get our attention. There's always plenty to choose from. Beginning with this, "John Kerry has tons of hair. For balance, he needs a runningmate with a little less hair."

HEMMER: Who said that?

CAFFERTY: Barbie Adler, on the senator's best pick for vice president.

SERWER: Share the hair.

CAFFERTY: "It's easy to complain about the press. I've been doing it for a good part of my career," Vice President Dick Cheney. He did ad he likes the F-word network for news. There's a surprise.

SERWER: Fair and balanced?

CAFFERTY: This is unbelievable. "This was a GI Joe guy who got what was coming to him. That was not heroism. It was prophetic idiocy," University of Massachusetts graduate student Rene Gonzalez in a campus opinion column on Pat Tillman, the kid who was killed in Afghanistan who turned down a multimillion-dollar contract to join the Army, died for his country. Gonzalez later apologized to Tillman's family.

"I fully intend to receive communion, one way or another. That's very important to me," House minority leader and abortion rights advocate Nancy Pelosi, a Roman Catholic, on taking communion, despite Vatican opposition to abortion rights advocates who are Catholics doing so. The Vatican has been very clear about this for years and years and years. John Kerry has the same problem. New York Governor Mario Cuomo had the same problem. Abortion rights advocate who are Catholic receiving communion. Can you spell hypocrisy?

Here's another one, "A management team distracted by a series of short-term targets is as pointless as a dieter stepping on a scale every half hour." Google's owner manual, in part of a letter to potential investors before the company's public offering of its stock. Things people say.

HEMMER: Speaking of which, are we going to get one of these shares or what? Are you working on that?

SERWER: We're going to get an account going, and maybe have the crew versus the anchors, and try to figure out what Google's price is going to be. CAFFERTY: It's all being done at auction, which is an interesting way to do that, but you've got a lot of big guys on Wall Street , since they can't get an insider's deal, saying maybe we'll just wait and buy it after it comes out.

HEMMER: Hemmer,are you in on this, by the way?

CAFFERTY: I'm in, always in.

HEMMER: Come on, we need more cash.

In a moment here, a harrowing ride in the skies over New York City yesterday. A reporter and chopper crew becoming part of their own news story, an amazing scene, the outcome in a moment, here on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired May 5, 2004 - 08:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: 8:30 here in New York. Welcome back, everybody. Heidi is in for Soledad.
Good morning again.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you.

Rumors that Secretary of State Colin Powell would leave the Bush administration have been floating around for years, as you know, but we're going to hear from a reporter who will tell us why Secretary Powell may be ready to quit before the year is out.

HEMMER: Some are suggesting no big surprise there, if indeed it happens that way, if that's the case. We'll get to that.

Also this hour, Sanjay has been breathing fire this week, been walking on broken glass. Today he tries something that defy the most basic human instinct. That's what they call it a tease. Figure that bad boy out in a second here.

Top stories here at the half hour, now U.S. forces launching a massive operation, they say, in southern Iraq against militants loyal to a wanted Shiite cleric. Military officials said troops took over the office of Muqtada Al Sadr 40 miles east of the holy city of Najaf. Soldiers also raiding a girls' school, seizing weapons believed to have been used by the Mahdi Army in attacks. At least one U.S. soldier injured in that operation today in Iraq.

The Greek government calling today's bombings in Athens isolated, and saying they have no effect on the safety of Olympic participants in that country. A series of explosions damaging parts of a police station. No injuries luckily. Officials that evacuated the building before that attack after a tip from an anonymous caller. The blast comes as Greece now begins a 100-day countdown to the Summer Games.

Sudan has been elected to serve on the U.N. Human Rights Commission. The selection sparked a walkout protest from a senior U.S. diplomat who condemned Sudan for supporting ethnic cleansing in one region in that country. Sudan's rep responding to U.S. criticism, citing the treatment of Iraqi prisoners in Baghdad's Abu Ghraib Prison. That was the scene at the U.N.

U.S. senators have taken steps to protect overtime pay. The Senate approved a measure yesterday to block any regulation that strips workers of their eligibility for overtime. The vote came despite heavy lobbying by the White House. The move is considered a victory for organized labor.

A news helicopter here in New York City made its own news after a crash while covering a story. Here's the videotape. The chopper and crew were covering a shooting story in Brooklyn when the helicopter spun out of control, clipped a building and miraculously crash onto the roof. But yet, all three people inside were OK. They suffered some injuries, but they were all right. They lived, pulled out of that chopper. And that was all the talk late yesterday here in New York City.

COLLINS: That's the reporter right there getting out. Obviously, very shaken up. The second time I've seen it now. It's just unbelievable.

HEMMER: Yes, that it is. Yes, three extremely lucky people as a result of that from yesterday.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COLLINS: The U.S. commander of the Iraqi prison system has issued an apology to the people of Iraq for the alleged abuse of prisoners at the Abu Ghraib Prison outside Baghdad. That apology comes as President Bush prepares to address the scandal in two interviews on television networks that are seen across the Arab world.

Yesterday most of the president's national security team, including Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, voiced their outrage.

Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In his first Pentagon news conference since the pictures surfaced one week ago today, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld promised to hold those responsible accountable.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECY.: The action of the soldiers in those photographs are totally unacceptable and un-American.

MCINTYRE: The pictures put Rumsfeld in the uncomfortable position of having to explain the difference between the abuse by the U.S. military and the torture and murder by the regime of Saddam Hussein.

RUMSFELD: Equating the two, I think, is a fundamental misunderstanding of what took place.

MCINTYRE: With some in Congress calling for hearings, the Pentagon dispatched the Army's No. 2 general to reassure members it could investigate itself.

GEN. GEORGE CASEY, ARMY VICE CHIEF OF STAFF: We are fully committed to getting to the bottom of this and holding accountable those who we find guilty through the judicial process. MCINTYRE: So far, a dozen people have been reprimanded or face criminal charges. But even with the investigation still under way, the Army is saying this is an isolated case.

SEN. CARL LEVIN (D), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: There were a number of allegations of prisoner abuse in both Afghanistan and in Iraq, but we were assured that none were similar to this type of abuse.

MCINTYRE: The Army says there were 25 prisoners who died while in U.S. custody in Iraq or Afghanistan. Twelve of the deaths were said to be from natural causes, but two were homicides, and a third a possible homicide. One incident was ruled justifiable when a U.S. soldier shot an escaping prisoner.

(on camera): Rumsfeld has acknowledged the revelations have undercut the Pentagon's war of ideas in the Arab world, but he declined to offer any apology.

Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Several changes are being made at the Abu Ghraib Prison in light of the scandal. The prison's population is being cut by about half, and some interrogation techniques, including putting hood over prisoners' heads, are also being discontinued.

HEMMER: To politics, Heidi, presidential campaign. The president back at the White House after campaigning in the Midwest the last two days, returning late last night after a two-day bus tour across Michigan first and then the state of Ohio. The president criticized John Kerry, saying the Democratic senator would likely raise taxes on the middle class. The president also insisting that Democracy will prevail in Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Watch and see how he'll react and whether we cut and run or whether we're good for our word. You don't have to worry about me. I don't care what the politics are. I don't care what the pressures are. We will make sure that we fulfill our mission in Iraq and Iraq is free.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Meanwhile, further West in the campaign trail in New Mexico, Democratic candidate John Kerry reading to children at an Albuquerque elementary school. Earlier, Senator Kerry criticized the president's education policies. The kids, though, were more interested in something else there in Albuquerque.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED CHILDREN: Good afternoon, Senator Kerry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you touch the roof?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're tall.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am tall.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Senator Kerry did vote for President Bush's "no child left behind" education policy. He contends that the president has not enforced key graduation provisions, and says the president repeatedly opposes initiatives to increase the graduation rate. That's on the trail.

Let's get back to D.C. and the fallout right now from the current cabinet. Though military and political war, Secretary of State Colin Powell has been a good soldier in the White House. An article, though, in the June issue of "GQ" magazine says Powell remains outside the president's inner circle and has had enough. When asked about it last night on "LARRY KING LIVE," the secretary of state says, he was a bit noncommittal last night with Larry King.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, SECY. OF STATE: I serve at the pleasure of the president. It's the only answer you can give to a question like that. I am honored to be serving, as I said earlier. I didn't think I'd be coming back in the government after I retired as chairman of the joint chiefs of staff.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: "GQ" writer-at-large Wil Hylton had access to Powell and those closest to the secretary for this article. He's live in Austin, Texas to talk about his new article that's out again in the June edition.

Good morning to you, and thanks for your time here.

Part of your article quotes the chief of staff, Larry Wilkinson, for secretary of state on screen, you write, "He's tired," that's a quote, "mentally and physically, and if the president were to ask him to stay on, if the president is re-elected and the president were to ask him to stay on, he might for a transitional period, but I don't think he'd want to do another four years."

Based on the reporting you have, is he out?

WIL HYLTON, "GQ" MAGAZINE: Yes. Larry was one of only maybe six or 10 people who said that, so he was not alone. And they were all Powell's closest friends and advisers. In fact, Powell had set me up to interview these friends and advisers. So it seems clear not only the unanimity among them evidences that it's the truth, but also that Powell wants people to be prepared for this and to know that.

HEMMER: Pretty normal for a lot of cabinet members to leave at the end of a first term. Is this that much of a surprise? HYLTON: I think what was most surprising to me was the other things that these friends and advisers to Powell said, and then especially knowing that Powell had instructed them to speak with me. And they were saying things like, you know, Powell is not comfortable with the president's vision, or Powell is very frustrated by his battles with the Pentagon.

Secretary Armitage is Powell's No. 2 guy, the deputy secretary of state, said to me that Powell's speech at the U.N. last year when he made the case that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction and has stockpiles of them, that it is a source of great distress for the secretary. And these kinds of things showing Powell's bitterness, and exhaustion and frustration, haven't really been said on the record by Powell's close friends and advisers. It was very surprising.

HEMMER: Why does he make this speech if he was so uncomfortable with it?

HYLTON: That's one of the most interesting things about it. In my experience speaking with Powell, he was very much the same way he was with Larry King last night. As you described, he was reluctant, he's very cautious, and I think that it's become clear, as "The New York Times" said in one of their editorials, that Powell wants to have it both ways, he wants to be seen as the guy who knew Iraq was going to be difficult and had reservations about it in advance, but he also wants to be a loyal soldier. And I think his experience in the military is related to that.

HEMMER: Another topic here, every time Colin Powell does an interview about the weapons of mass destruction, prewar intelligence, et cetera, he always cites these U.N. resolutions, that were passed and proposed at the U.N. here in New York City. How much do you believe these comments from the chief of staff and others that you've talked to and interviewed? Is Colin Powell separating himself from what he had a year, maybe a year and a half ago regarding Iraq and what's happening now, and trying to distance himself from that war?

HYLTON: I think what happened to Powell is that -- and I got this also from these friends and advisers, his chief of staff, his deputy secretary of state, is that he's looked at the evidence he was asked to bring to the United Nations, and he said this is just -- this is not accurate. He went down to the CIA, and he spent four days and three nights there, and everybody described it to me as a big fight. I mean, shouting, middle of the night arguing about things. Powell saying, this is not good enough. This is not solid evidence and throwing things out left and right, truckloads of evidence being tossed aside. And him saying, I will not go the United Nations, I will not go to the world with this stuff.

And finally, they reduced it to down to a list of claims that he apparently believed at the time, and since then, it's become clear that there are probably aren't stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons in Iraq, and I think that's what the greatest source of distress for the secretary is.

HEMMER: But what you're saying is that if you whittle away the number of arguments he felt comfortable, he went forward with those that he felt comfortable with. Is that where he comes down on this issue. Then that goes back to the original question of, why go forward with it for a speech that is so critical and so important for the United States and the world for that matter? Why not stop and say, you know what, guys, you need to keep the powder dry?

HYLTON: You know, it would be great to ask Powell that question, and it would be even better if he answered forthrightly. I have to rely on that...

HEMMER: What did his chief of staff say?

HYLTON: His chief of staff gave me the impression, as well as Harlan Oldman (ph), his mentor for the War College, and Deputy Secretary Armitage, they all gave me the impression that Powell believed this evidence that he brought to the U.N. at the time, and that since then, he's become aware that he didn't filter enough stuff out, that he should have filtered everything out, because none of it was accurate.

HEMMER: All right, much more to come. "GQ" magazine, Wil Hylton, thanks, there live in Austin, Texas, sharing his reporting with us today.

COLLINS: Still to come this morning, the first wildfires of the season in Southern California, forcing hundreds of people now out of their homes. A live shot, as you see, from KTTV Television. This is Corona, California.

Once again, we will have a live report coming up in our next hour.

HEMMER: Also in a moment here, what's going on between Major League Baseball and Spider-man? Andy has that in business.

COLLINS: And Dr. Sanjay Gupta with more in his "Life Beyond Limits" series. This time, take a deep breath. He's taking us on a watery adventure. Don't miss it, coming up soon on AMERICAN MORNING.

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COLLINS: This week, Dr. Sanjay Gupta is exploring life beyond limits. His special series looks at how and why people are driven to extremes. This morning, Sanjay's taking a deep breath and holding it for a long time on a watery adventure, joining us now to explain.

Wow, this is impressive.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It really was very interesting. Tonya Streeter, world's freediving champion, I had her as a coach, so I was pretty well set off. No slouch for sure with her.

But holding your breath can be difficult. Everybody knows that. But what I found out, it's much more of a mental challenge than a physical one. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA (voice-over): Tonya Streeter broke the world record in a discipline called no limits freediving. She rode a weighted sled down 525 feet and then returned to the surface. The round-trip took more than three minutes. To stay under water that long, you need to overcome the most basic instinct, to breathe.

TONYA STREETER: Human physiology is usually going to take you to three minutes if your mind lets you.

GUPTA: Streeter says we're all born with this skill, if we can learn to ignore the urgent signal the brain gets to take in air.

My attempts hover at breath holding hover around a minute initially, even though my body still has plenty of oxygen. On my seventh attempt, I break through, and hold my breath for 2 minutes and 17 seconds.

STREETER: So that is much, much, much, much better.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: Two minutes, 17 seconds. That was pretty. That was impressive. For me, I started off at 2 minutes and 17 seconds. And it was important, Tonya points out, and really important to point out as well, that you can black out when you're trying to hold your breath for that long.

COLLINS: Oh, I'm sure.

GUPTA: You need to have somebody there with you. That's a basic safety thing, and that's what they taught us.

COLLINS: Unbelievable. I'm impressed, Sanjay.

You'll also want make sure to tune in for Sanjay's special report, a series, "Life Beyond Limits." It's this Sunday night at 9:00 Eastern. You'll see more of that report and more breath holding.

All right, Bill, over to you.

HEMMER: All right, Heidi, in a moment here, baseball goes Hollywood. All for the benefit of an upcoming movie. Andy is coming up with the tangled details. In a moment here, back with Andy and Jack, after this.

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HEMMER: Welcome back, everybody.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Say it ain't so. Baseball is using its bases to promote a movie. Now with that, and a market preview, Andy Serwer is here "Minding Your Business." They're going to run out of stuff to hang ads on at one of these points.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: They are, and I can hear the purest screaming all the way to Cooperstown, Jack.

Well, wait until you hear about this, "The Wall Street Journal" exclusive reporting this morning that Major League Baseball has agreed to allow "Spider-man 2" to plaster its promotional logo, which is to say a red spider web, on the bases during baseball games. There's Spider-Man. He's coming. He's going to first. Who's on first? Spider-man. they are going to put it on first, they're going to put it on second, they're going to put in on third. They're not going to put it on home plate. That's sacred. They're going to put it on the pitcher's rubber. They're going to put it on the on-deck circle. It is a little bit sacrilege. And you know,hockey has got that. They have ads in there. We talked about jockeys at the Kentucky Derby. That whole controversy, they put the ads. They were so small, no one ever saw them.

HEMMER: Yes, they sure were. I was looking for them all day.

CAFFERTY: Can we make extra money if we sold space on our shirts and stuff here?

SERWER: If we could, that would be great. I've got some other ideas for baseball. They could put ads on the ball for "Monster's Ball." For the bat, they could promote Batman. For the catcher's mask, they could do "Mask." I mean, there's a lot of things they could do once they start -- baseball is seen as sort of not being as cool as basketball or football, so they are trying to catch up.

CAFFERTY: This will not make baseball cooler.

SERWER: Not in your book.

CAFFERTY: No.

How about the markets? The markets were all over the map yesterday, like they never heard of Alan Greenspan and the Federal Reserve.

SERWER: They did dance around right after the announcement at 2:15. We have a chart showing the action. In the end, here we go, up. It was a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.

CAFFERTY: I mean, there was over 100-point swing. Look at this nonsense.

SERWER: Yes, and so it's really not a lot of stuff there.

CAFFERTY: Like Hemmer's cardiac monitor.

HEMMER: After working with you.

SERWER: What's happening today, the market is probably going breathe a sigh of relief. We've got flat futures right now. Coke has a new CEO, . Neville Isdell, an Irishman. Royal Bank of Scotland -- a lot of British Isles stuff going on there -- buying Cleveland's Charter One Bank for $10 billion.

CAFFERTY: That's a big deal.

SERWER: That's a big bank.

CAFFERTY: Thank you, chief.

SERWER: You're welcome.

CAFFERTY: On to the File now. It's Wednesday.

Things people said in the last week that were dumb enough to get our attention. There's always plenty to choose from. Beginning with this, "John Kerry has tons of hair. For balance, he needs a runningmate with a little less hair."

HEMMER: Who said that?

CAFFERTY: Barbie Adler, on the senator's best pick for vice president.

SERWER: Share the hair.

CAFFERTY: "It's easy to complain about the press. I've been doing it for a good part of my career," Vice President Dick Cheney. He did ad he likes the F-word network for news. There's a surprise.

SERWER: Fair and balanced?

CAFFERTY: This is unbelievable. "This was a GI Joe guy who got what was coming to him. That was not heroism. It was prophetic idiocy," University of Massachusetts graduate student Rene Gonzalez in a campus opinion column on Pat Tillman, the kid who was killed in Afghanistan who turned down a multimillion-dollar contract to join the Army, died for his country. Gonzalez later apologized to Tillman's family.

"I fully intend to receive communion, one way or another. That's very important to me," House minority leader and abortion rights advocate Nancy Pelosi, a Roman Catholic, on taking communion, despite Vatican opposition to abortion rights advocates who are Catholics doing so. The Vatican has been very clear about this for years and years and years. John Kerry has the same problem. New York Governor Mario Cuomo had the same problem. Abortion rights advocate who are Catholic receiving communion. Can you spell hypocrisy?

Here's another one, "A management team distracted by a series of short-term targets is as pointless as a dieter stepping on a scale every half hour." Google's owner manual, in part of a letter to potential investors before the company's public offering of its stock. Things people say.

HEMMER: Speaking of which, are we going to get one of these shares or what? Are you working on that?

SERWER: We're going to get an account going, and maybe have the crew versus the anchors, and try to figure out what Google's price is going to be. CAFFERTY: It's all being done at auction, which is an interesting way to do that, but you've got a lot of big guys on Wall Street , since they can't get an insider's deal, saying maybe we'll just wait and buy it after it comes out.

HEMMER: Hemmer,are you in on this, by the way?

CAFFERTY: I'm in, always in.

HEMMER: Come on, we need more cash.

In a moment here, a harrowing ride in the skies over New York City yesterday. A reporter and chopper crew becoming part of their own news story, an amazing scene, the outcome in a moment, here on AMERICAN MORNING.

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