Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Prisoner Abuse Scandal; Reopening Emmett Till Case
Aired May 11, 2004 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Does he have a point? We'll talk to him about it. This came up at a White House press briefing again yesterday.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Also this morning, we're going to be talking to Brad Pitt. He's introducing a whole new generation to the Greek classics. The actor is starring in "Troy," which, of course, is based on Homer's "The Iliad." Bill talked to him about playing one of the great warriors of all time and also about the film's $200 million budget.
HEMMER: A lot of cash for that epic film, a huge success.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Do you think it's going to be a success and that it makes back all of that money and then some?
HEMMER: I think it's got a chance, certainly. I mean, that's a high barometer to make, but it's a great story. I mean, come on, this is the Greeks and the Trojans and...
O'BRIEN: Well, we all know the story is good. But how is the movie?
HEMMER: Cute. That's good.
Let's get to our top stories right now.
The Army general whose report detailed the mistreatment at Abu Ghraib prison outside of Baghdad appears today before the Senate Armed Services Committee. General Antonio Taguba's testimony comes as talks are under way to determine if more photos showing the alleged abuse should be released. CNN has live coverage at 9:30 a.m. Eastern Time two hours from now.
There are reports from Iraq of missing workers after an attack on a supply convoy. Officials say gunmen attacked the vehicles on the road between Baghdad and Jordan. That convoy was operated by a subsidiary of Halliburton. Two of its workers are still missing from a separate attack back on the 9th of April.
In California, Scott Peterson's lawyers are arguing for a second change of venue today. Defense attorney Mark Geragos wants the case moved from northern California to Los Angeles, claiming there is less media attention there for this particular case. Prosecutors say moving the trial again would be pointless. It was already moved from Modesto once. They say juror bias will be found anywhere in the state of California. More rain is expected today in already soaked New Orleans. Yesterday, about 10 inches fell in the suburbs -- that within a two- hour period. The rain caused flash flooding, trapping cars and seeping into some homes. A wet mess down south. If you put that with the tornadoes in Colorado yesterday, watching that videotape, and, again, we were quiet across the country for many days, but it's popping up again now.
O'BRIEN: Well, it is a mess.
(WEATHER BREAK)
O'BRIEN: As Major General Antonio Taguba prepares for his testimony this morning before the Senate Armed Services Committee, a debate is raging at both the Pentagon and the White House over whether or how to release more photos. Sources tell us that there are hundreds more photos, some of which are extremely graphic in nature.
For more on this, let's go right to the White House and Dana Bash who is standing by for us.
Dana -- good morning.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
And over at the Pentagon, the president got his first look at the classified graphic color photos, a sample we're told, about a dozen, a little more of those photographs described as certainly graphic, some sexual in nature. And he was described after that by a spokesman as disgusted.
Now, during that briefing, the president also discussed with Pentagon officials the possibility of releasing some or even all of those paragraphs to the public.
Now, most officials, Soledad, you talk to here at the White House say that they're eager to get these out, essentially saying that damage control 101 means that you get things out that could be politically damaging fast and early, as soon as possible. And they also understand that this is beginning to take a toll on the president here at the White House and on the campaign trail.
However, they say they are going to continue to take their cues from the Pentagon, because they have issues of privacy. They also have issues of the fact that this is a criminal investigation and releasing those photos, many at the Pentagon fear, could hinder that criminal investigation -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Some of the new poll numbers that we've been talking about this morning also seem to be taking a toll on the president. And some declines are being shown. Let's talk a little bit about that this morning. How are they reacting to that at the White House, Dana?
BASH: Well, there is one poll that you see up there on the screen, and that is, perhaps, one of the most telling about how this Iraqi prisoner abuse issue is affecting the president and his poll numbers. You saw there the comparison to George Bush and John Kerry on how they're doing on Iraq. The Bush campaign, their aides for some time, for weeks, have been saying that they understand that the overall public opinion of Iraq had been going down. But this is a campaign, and you have to have a better alternative than the incumbent for it really to matter.
Well, those numbers have really slipped. There was a wide lead between the president and John Kerry. But this recent poll shows that that lead has essentially evaporated. So, the president's political aides essentially are conceding that these are current events that are sometimes hard to control, and many times hard to control. And they're watching, just as we are. But that is a lead that the president's aides certainly took solace in before, and it no longer exists.
O'BRIEN: No, it does not. Dana bash at the White House for us this morning. Dana, thanks.
BASH: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Bill.
HEMMER: Soledad, about 36 minutes now past the hour.
Donald Rumsfeld's pledge to compensate abused Iraqi prisoners is not sitting well with some former American prisoners of war. Retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Jeff Fox is one of 17 prisoners from the first Gulf War who collectively won more than $900 million in damages; he himself 30 million. The money was supposed to come from Iraq's frozen assets, but the Bush administration says that money is now needed for rebuilding Iraq.
Fox has written a letter to the defense secretary in part saying -- I'm quoting now: "We would appreciate hearing from you as to how it makes sense to pay harmed Iraqis and yet prevent Americans, tortured in the service of this country, from satisfying their court- ordered judgment from the assets of the Iraqi perpetrators" end quote.
Lieutenant Colonel Jeff Fox with us this morning in Charleston, South Carolina. Thanks for your time, and good morning there.
LT. COL. JEFF FOX (RET.), FORMER POW: Thank you.
HEMMER: I'd like to start with the alleged abuse in the Iraqi prisons and go back to your own experience from 13 years ago. What comes to mind when you see these photos?
FOX: Well, when I see the photos, I certainly think of the beatings that I had and the times that I was drug around the cells, the times that I was completely stripped naked and was checked to see if I was circumcised, spit on. It does bring back memories of the time I had in Baghdad.
HEMMER: So, listening to Secretary Rumsfeld last Friday, do you oppose compensation for Iraqis who have been abused? FOX: I don't necessarily oppose the compensation. If they've been mistreated and we want to give them some money, that's fine. But what I find difficult to understand is why we can recommend that for them and refuse to give the Desert Storm POWs the assets that we were awarded in accordance with, you know, U.S. law.
HEMMER: We contacted the Pentagon late last night, still awaiting a response on this particular issue. This was an issue yesterday during the White House briefing.
Scott McClellan said this in part, on the screen -- I'm quoting: "It was determined by Congress and the administration that those assets were no longer assets of Iraq, but they were resources required for the urgent national security needs of rebuilding Iraq. But, again, there is simply no amount of compensation that could ever truly compensate these brave men and women."
He's referring to you. What is your reaction when you hear that statement?
FOX: Well, that sounds like a standard political response. The money was there. The award was made. And I believe that after the award was given to us, the money was then released. So, it's a little difficult to understand.
HEMMER: Well, the White House is saying they need this money to rebuild the country. Do you buy that argument?
FOX: I don't think that less than -- I mean, $900 million is going to have an effect on the rebuilding of Iraq right now.
HEMMER: Why does the money matter to you?
FOX: It really doesn't, and I know a lot of people that will think that, oh, yes, this is about money. But to me what is happening is the administration is sending a message to our active-duty military that, hey, if you are captured and tortured, deal with it because you're not going to get anything, even if you are awarded it in a court of law.
HEMMER: Do you believe that with the pictures being so public globally that this will actually help your cause?
FOX: Well, it'll definitely get out to the public what happened to us, and hopefully will send a message to all nations that we cannot -- please, don't do this, because if you do it, you're going to get punished.
HEMMER: Lieutenant Colonel Jeff Fox, retired now, a former prisoner of war during the first Persian Gulf War, in Charleston, South Carolina. Thanks for your time and spending it with us this morning.
FOX: Thank you very much.
HEMMER: All right -- Soledad. O'BRIEN: The Justice Department is reopening an investigation into a decades-old murder, the brutal 1955 kidnapping and killing of Emmett Till. Till was a black teenager, and the case has been described as a turning point in the U.S. civil rights movement.
CNN's justice correspondent Kelli Arena with the story now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Emmett Till's mother made the extraordinary decision to leave the casket open at her son's funeral in Chicago, to allow the world to see the brutality of the crime committed against him.
REP. BOBBY RUSH (D), ILLINOIS: That photograph remains etched in my memory. I can see it today in all of its detail. And I -- it incited me to get involved.
ARENA: Two white men, Roy Bryant and J.W. Milam, were charged and acquitted by an all-white jury. The next year, the two confessed to the killing of the 14-year-old in some detail in "Look" magazine. But because they had been acquitted, they could not be charged again.
Both have since died, but recent documentaries have put the case back in the limelight and suggest that at least eight other people may have been involved. Five of those may still be alive.
KEITH BEAUCHAMP, FILMMAKER: I was in Mississippi, and I realized I was gathering interviews that was not necessarily interviews. It was actually depositions, because the people to whom I was speaking with, it was the first time they had anyone come to them and ask questions about this case.
ARENA: The federal statute of limitations has passed, but state charges can still be brought. The Justice Department says the case will be reopened and federal resources committed.
ALEX ACOSTA, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR CIVIL RIGHTS: We owe it to Emmett Till. We owe it to his mother and to his family, and we owe it to ourselves to see if after all these years any additional measure of justice is still possible.
ARENA (on camera): Even if the investigation does not lead to any prosecutions setting the record straight is at least a start to addressing what has been called an ugly mark in U.S. history.
Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Emmett's mother, Mamie Till Mobley (ph), never lived to see her son's murder case reopened. She died last year, but the pressure that she exerted over four decades was finally recognized with the reopening of that case.
HEMMER: In a moment here, Brat Pitt's "Troy" is out this weekend. The stars were out last night here in New York City for that premiere. In a moment, we'll talk to Pitt about the movie and some personal family plans in California.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Is it time now to expand the Pitt-Aniston household?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
The answer to that in a moment.
O'BRIEN: What a tease!
HEMMER: Coming up. Brace yourselves.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning, money problems at Delta Airlines. Will the pilots take a pay cut? We'll ask that question when AMERICAN MORNING returns right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody. Come on, get with the program. Welcome back, everybody. The Dow dropping below 10,000. And as the tech stocks also tumble, can Cisco slow the slide? Meanwhile, Delta on the brink, and Chiquita drops a bombshell. All of those stories this morning. You've got lots to talk about, Andy Serwer.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: I've got a lot to talk about.
O'BRIEN: Tons. Let's start with the market from yesterday.
SERWER: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Oh.
SERWER: Well, I mean, the market is basically saying, yikes, higher interest rates are coming. OK, we knew that. What's all the excitement about? Let's take a look and see what happened yesterday. We did go below 10,000 for the first time since December 10. The market may be overreacting -- Bill Hemmer suggesting as much. And I think he could be right -- our market expert Bill Hemmer.
HEMMER: Thank you, Andy.
SERWER: Futures are up this morning. Cisco reporting after the bell, so we're going to be looking for some relief there.
Let's talk about Delta, because this is a huge story. Yesterday, the No. 3 airline filing a document suggesting that unless pilots take significant wage cuts -- and we're talking 30 percent, Soledad, 30 percent wage cuts -- the company could file bankruptcy. And it's the first time this company has suggested that. This comes only days after U.S. Air said essentially the same thing.
O'BRIEN: Right. SERWER: Of course, United, UAL, is in bankruptcy. American Airlines in not great shape either. And the big airlines continue to have rough times.
O'BRIEN: Major, major problems.
SERWER: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Then there is the story about Chiquita banana, the company.
SERWER: Yes.
O'BRIEN: I think it's -- I don't think it's an overstatement to say it is shocking.
SERWER: It is shocking. And, of course, Chiquita is based in what city, Bill?
HEMMER: Cincinnati.
SERWER: Cincinnati, Ohio. All right, you got this earnings release from Chiquita, the big banana company, and they talk about bananas and they talk about their new fresh cut fruit business and on and on. And it's very interesting and not really. And then you get something here that says, hang, on, on page two, well, the company's banana subsidiary in Colombia made protection payment to certain groups in that country, which have been designated under U.S. law as foreign terrorist organizations.
O'BRIEN: Is this their own statement?
SERWER: This is in their own statement right here in their earnings release yesterday. That's right. They're making payments to terrorist organizations in Columbia for protection for their banana workers.
Now, they also say here, I should point out, they were forced to make those payments. We're not quite sure what that means.
The Department of Justice is investigating. They did report this to the DOJ last year. But, you know, talk about slipping on a banana peel. I mean...
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: The dreaded banana terrorists are at it again.
SERWER: The banana -- well, you know, these are serious guerrillas in Colombia.
HEMMER: They are.
SERWER: But, you know, it's a very unusual situation.
O'BRIEN: But to put it in your report like that, that's bizarre.
SERWER: But I love just slipping it in, you know, just paragraph 4, oh, by the way, we have this situation here, right?
O'BRIEN: Wow!
CAFFERTY: But it's a legitimate expense, right? They've got to document it, I suppose.
SERWER: I guess that' right. You might as well tell investors, Jack, right?
CAFFERTY: Right.
SERWER: Yes.
O'BRIEN: All right, Andy, thanks.
SERWER: You're welcome.
HEMMER: To the question of the day.
CAFFERTY: To the question of the day. The prisoner abuse scandal, Bill, appears to be galvanizing opposition against the war in Iraq in this country. The most recent "USA Today"/CNN/Gallup poll shows the number of people who think it was worth going to Iraq to go to war is dropping dramatically. Fifty-four percent of Americans think it wasn't worth going to war in Iraq, and that's down significantly from just 33 percent who thought it was a bad idea as recently as December.
The prisoner abuse is being compared by some to the Tet (ph) offensive in Vietnam, which was a big event in turning public opinion against the war in Vietnam, a classic example of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, if you remember your history lessons.
Anyway, here are the answers to the question: Has the prisoner abuse scandal changed your view on the war in Iraq?
Kim in Farmingdale, New York: "Absolutely not. I was against it when I couldn't see the connection to 9/11, and I still think it was not worth 800 of the best and brightest men and women this country has to offer to find a man cowering in a hole in the ground."
Jason in Redding, Pennsylvania: "The Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal has not changed my view on the Iraq war at all. It just strengthens the case to get out of there as soon as possible. If we can't get our soldiers' hearts and minds on the same page as the ideals of our nation, how can we expect the Iraqis to follow our lead?"
Robert in Chicago: "Not one bit. Keep the civilians out of the damn thing and let the military do their job they were sent over there to do. War is hell, remember. I never heard the Germans or Japanese say I'm sorry."
Peter in Houston: "Absolutely not. But if it turns American against the war, it will be the greatest tragedy in American history. Iraq to the Islamic fundamentalists will be seen as a great victory for them just as they defeated the Russians in Afghanistan. Allah will have given them a great victory. If we pull out of Iraq, prepare for Armageddon in the U.S."
And Darren in Fairbanks, Alaska -- Alaska, by the way, will be in the "Cafferty File" later: "The abuse of Iraqi prisoners doesn't change my view of the war. It confirms it. I wonder what's going on at Guantanamo."
SERWER: Well, what did we do in Vietnam? We declared victory and left, right?
CAFFERTY: Yes.
SERWER: I mean, it may come to that.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
HEMMER: In the Tet (ph) offensive, a couple of Marines were killed in that uprising, but many, many Vietnamese paid a very dear price for what happened in February of '68.
CAFFERTY: Well, and the generals at that time figured they had the Vietcong on the run to the degree. If they got a couple of hundred of thousand more troops into the country they could crush the whole thing and win the war. The request was made to Washington, and it leaked out that they wanted this almost quarter of a million troops. The public thought it was because we had gotten beaten in the Tet (ph) offensive; that the VC was winning against us and they didn't want to sacrifice another 200,000 troops. That was the turning point psychologically in this country.
HEMMER: Keep them coming, AM@CNN.com.
Let's get a break. Here in a moment, Hollywood is gambling $200 million on the epic film, "Troy." Brad Pitt sits down and talks with here on AMERICAN MORNING, on whether or not he feels the pressure to meet the bottom line. Also his response to expanding the family with Jennifer Aniston. We'll get to that also, Jack. Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRAD PITT, ACTOR: Imagine a king that fights his own battle. Wouldn't that be a sight?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Brad Pitt is fighting the good fight. The warrior Achilles in the Trojan War epic, "Troy," that new movie is out this weekend, the actor's first starring role in three years. And not only is "Troy" one of the year's most-anticipated films, it's one of the most expensive, which for its leading man could be a double-edged sword.
I talked with Pitt recently. I asked him if he felt the need to have an epic on his resume.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PITT: It came along at a good time. I was off for a couple of years and I was ready to take on something really difficult and arduous. And so, but I don't know about stacking a resume. I just kind of go where the next one...
HEMMER: I've got to think, though, I mean, a guy like you, you probably get so many scripts put in front of you in California. Why did you pick this one?
PITT: I just -- it's one of the great stories in literature. And I thought the themes really resonated today, whether that was my projection or Homer's intentions, you know, it didn't seem like we'd come very far.
HEMMER: There's a lot into this film.
PITT: Yes.
HEMMER: Two hundred million dollars. Do you feel a certain pressure, though, when you are putting that much money into a film, trying to make it back at the box office?
PITT: You know, I try not to not to. Listen, the truth is, no, I don't really think that way, and I should think a little more that way.
HEMMER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE), I think, once said that acting is 80 percent running. And you have to look good physically when you're doing things.
PITT: That's funny.
HEMMER: And if you've thought about that, do you agree with that?
PITT: No, I don't.
HEMMER: No?
PITT: It depends on the tone of the film and what the film's about. But so much of it is about the -- it requires the research going in. This one was all about preparation and research.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER O'TOOLE, ACTOR: I cannot change what happened. It is the will of the gods.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Peter O'Toole was really involved in one of the first major epics films, "Lawrence of Arabia."
PITT: That's right. Yes, he cut the club.
HEMMER: Yes. What was it like working with him?
PITT: I don't know that I can do it justice, but for me, it was a pinnacle. He's very eloquent and very powerful in it, and it comes from a training that I haven't had. I don't completely understand. He's just one of the masters and a delight to be around.
HEMMER: Your wife made a joke, I think, on "Saturday Night Live" about starting a family together. Is it time now to expand the Pitt- Aniston household?
PITT: I think it's time. I think it's time. We've been in rehearsals long enough.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: You've got to think, how long was he thinking about that answer.
O'BRIEN: That was pretty funny.
HEMMER: We've been in rehearsals long enough. A good film. I liked it. I think he's a terrific athletic actor when it comes to this film. It's a great cast.
O'BRIEN: He's not hard to look at, is he?
CAFFERTY: Is this...
HEMMER: For the women, they'll like that. I don't know necessarily if it's a movie that everyone is going to enjoy. There's a lot of gore in fight scenes.
CAFFERTY: Is this the movie that Victor Matur (ph) made before Kirk Douglas made it, before Charlton Heston made it?
HEMMER: Correct, correct. But they have the benefit of technology, Jack, in 2004 to make it even better.
O'BRIEN: Brad Pitt is in this one. Did you miss that part of the interview?
CAFFERTY: If you'll forgive me, I'm -- what's up with the hair?
HEMMER: Listen, they had the premiere last night...
O'BRIEN: It looks like good.
CAFFERTY: Huh?
HEMMER: ... at the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) here in New York, too. So...
O'BRIEN: Let me get your mike for you.
CAFFERTY: Oh, thank you.
HEMMER: All right, catch up, Jack.
O'BRIEN: Yes, are you ready?
CAFFERTY: I'm ready, yes.
O'BRIEN: Are you prepared for the rest of the day?
CAFFERTY: I have nothing left to say, however.
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, the story that is topping our news, the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal gets another public airing on Capitol Hill. We're going to talk to one Democratic senator who is going to be asking questions just ahead. Stay with us. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
Aired May 11, 2004 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Does he have a point? We'll talk to him about it. This came up at a White House press briefing again yesterday.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Also this morning, we're going to be talking to Brad Pitt. He's introducing a whole new generation to the Greek classics. The actor is starring in "Troy," which, of course, is based on Homer's "The Iliad." Bill talked to him about playing one of the great warriors of all time and also about the film's $200 million budget.
HEMMER: A lot of cash for that epic film, a huge success.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Do you think it's going to be a success and that it makes back all of that money and then some?
HEMMER: I think it's got a chance, certainly. I mean, that's a high barometer to make, but it's a great story. I mean, come on, this is the Greeks and the Trojans and...
O'BRIEN: Well, we all know the story is good. But how is the movie?
HEMMER: Cute. That's good.
Let's get to our top stories right now.
The Army general whose report detailed the mistreatment at Abu Ghraib prison outside of Baghdad appears today before the Senate Armed Services Committee. General Antonio Taguba's testimony comes as talks are under way to determine if more photos showing the alleged abuse should be released. CNN has live coverage at 9:30 a.m. Eastern Time two hours from now.
There are reports from Iraq of missing workers after an attack on a supply convoy. Officials say gunmen attacked the vehicles on the road between Baghdad and Jordan. That convoy was operated by a subsidiary of Halliburton. Two of its workers are still missing from a separate attack back on the 9th of April.
In California, Scott Peterson's lawyers are arguing for a second change of venue today. Defense attorney Mark Geragos wants the case moved from northern California to Los Angeles, claiming there is less media attention there for this particular case. Prosecutors say moving the trial again would be pointless. It was already moved from Modesto once. They say juror bias will be found anywhere in the state of California. More rain is expected today in already soaked New Orleans. Yesterday, about 10 inches fell in the suburbs -- that within a two- hour period. The rain caused flash flooding, trapping cars and seeping into some homes. A wet mess down south. If you put that with the tornadoes in Colorado yesterday, watching that videotape, and, again, we were quiet across the country for many days, but it's popping up again now.
O'BRIEN: Well, it is a mess.
(WEATHER BREAK)
O'BRIEN: As Major General Antonio Taguba prepares for his testimony this morning before the Senate Armed Services Committee, a debate is raging at both the Pentagon and the White House over whether or how to release more photos. Sources tell us that there are hundreds more photos, some of which are extremely graphic in nature.
For more on this, let's go right to the White House and Dana Bash who is standing by for us.
Dana -- good morning.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
And over at the Pentagon, the president got his first look at the classified graphic color photos, a sample we're told, about a dozen, a little more of those photographs described as certainly graphic, some sexual in nature. And he was described after that by a spokesman as disgusted.
Now, during that briefing, the president also discussed with Pentagon officials the possibility of releasing some or even all of those paragraphs to the public.
Now, most officials, Soledad, you talk to here at the White House say that they're eager to get these out, essentially saying that damage control 101 means that you get things out that could be politically damaging fast and early, as soon as possible. And they also understand that this is beginning to take a toll on the president here at the White House and on the campaign trail.
However, they say they are going to continue to take their cues from the Pentagon, because they have issues of privacy. They also have issues of the fact that this is a criminal investigation and releasing those photos, many at the Pentagon fear, could hinder that criminal investigation -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Some of the new poll numbers that we've been talking about this morning also seem to be taking a toll on the president. And some declines are being shown. Let's talk a little bit about that this morning. How are they reacting to that at the White House, Dana?
BASH: Well, there is one poll that you see up there on the screen, and that is, perhaps, one of the most telling about how this Iraqi prisoner abuse issue is affecting the president and his poll numbers. You saw there the comparison to George Bush and John Kerry on how they're doing on Iraq. The Bush campaign, their aides for some time, for weeks, have been saying that they understand that the overall public opinion of Iraq had been going down. But this is a campaign, and you have to have a better alternative than the incumbent for it really to matter.
Well, those numbers have really slipped. There was a wide lead between the president and John Kerry. But this recent poll shows that that lead has essentially evaporated. So, the president's political aides essentially are conceding that these are current events that are sometimes hard to control, and many times hard to control. And they're watching, just as we are. But that is a lead that the president's aides certainly took solace in before, and it no longer exists.
O'BRIEN: No, it does not. Dana bash at the White House for us this morning. Dana, thanks.
BASH: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Bill.
HEMMER: Soledad, about 36 minutes now past the hour.
Donald Rumsfeld's pledge to compensate abused Iraqi prisoners is not sitting well with some former American prisoners of war. Retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Jeff Fox is one of 17 prisoners from the first Gulf War who collectively won more than $900 million in damages; he himself 30 million. The money was supposed to come from Iraq's frozen assets, but the Bush administration says that money is now needed for rebuilding Iraq.
Fox has written a letter to the defense secretary in part saying -- I'm quoting now: "We would appreciate hearing from you as to how it makes sense to pay harmed Iraqis and yet prevent Americans, tortured in the service of this country, from satisfying their court- ordered judgment from the assets of the Iraqi perpetrators" end quote.
Lieutenant Colonel Jeff Fox with us this morning in Charleston, South Carolina. Thanks for your time, and good morning there.
LT. COL. JEFF FOX (RET.), FORMER POW: Thank you.
HEMMER: I'd like to start with the alleged abuse in the Iraqi prisons and go back to your own experience from 13 years ago. What comes to mind when you see these photos?
FOX: Well, when I see the photos, I certainly think of the beatings that I had and the times that I was drug around the cells, the times that I was completely stripped naked and was checked to see if I was circumcised, spit on. It does bring back memories of the time I had in Baghdad.
HEMMER: So, listening to Secretary Rumsfeld last Friday, do you oppose compensation for Iraqis who have been abused? FOX: I don't necessarily oppose the compensation. If they've been mistreated and we want to give them some money, that's fine. But what I find difficult to understand is why we can recommend that for them and refuse to give the Desert Storm POWs the assets that we were awarded in accordance with, you know, U.S. law.
HEMMER: We contacted the Pentagon late last night, still awaiting a response on this particular issue. This was an issue yesterday during the White House briefing.
Scott McClellan said this in part, on the screen -- I'm quoting: "It was determined by Congress and the administration that those assets were no longer assets of Iraq, but they were resources required for the urgent national security needs of rebuilding Iraq. But, again, there is simply no amount of compensation that could ever truly compensate these brave men and women."
He's referring to you. What is your reaction when you hear that statement?
FOX: Well, that sounds like a standard political response. The money was there. The award was made. And I believe that after the award was given to us, the money was then released. So, it's a little difficult to understand.
HEMMER: Well, the White House is saying they need this money to rebuild the country. Do you buy that argument?
FOX: I don't think that less than -- I mean, $900 million is going to have an effect on the rebuilding of Iraq right now.
HEMMER: Why does the money matter to you?
FOX: It really doesn't, and I know a lot of people that will think that, oh, yes, this is about money. But to me what is happening is the administration is sending a message to our active-duty military that, hey, if you are captured and tortured, deal with it because you're not going to get anything, even if you are awarded it in a court of law.
HEMMER: Do you believe that with the pictures being so public globally that this will actually help your cause?
FOX: Well, it'll definitely get out to the public what happened to us, and hopefully will send a message to all nations that we cannot -- please, don't do this, because if you do it, you're going to get punished.
HEMMER: Lieutenant Colonel Jeff Fox, retired now, a former prisoner of war during the first Persian Gulf War, in Charleston, South Carolina. Thanks for your time and spending it with us this morning.
FOX: Thank you very much.
HEMMER: All right -- Soledad. O'BRIEN: The Justice Department is reopening an investigation into a decades-old murder, the brutal 1955 kidnapping and killing of Emmett Till. Till was a black teenager, and the case has been described as a turning point in the U.S. civil rights movement.
CNN's justice correspondent Kelli Arena with the story now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Emmett Till's mother made the extraordinary decision to leave the casket open at her son's funeral in Chicago, to allow the world to see the brutality of the crime committed against him.
REP. BOBBY RUSH (D), ILLINOIS: That photograph remains etched in my memory. I can see it today in all of its detail. And I -- it incited me to get involved.
ARENA: Two white men, Roy Bryant and J.W. Milam, were charged and acquitted by an all-white jury. The next year, the two confessed to the killing of the 14-year-old in some detail in "Look" magazine. But because they had been acquitted, they could not be charged again.
Both have since died, but recent documentaries have put the case back in the limelight and suggest that at least eight other people may have been involved. Five of those may still be alive.
KEITH BEAUCHAMP, FILMMAKER: I was in Mississippi, and I realized I was gathering interviews that was not necessarily interviews. It was actually depositions, because the people to whom I was speaking with, it was the first time they had anyone come to them and ask questions about this case.
ARENA: The federal statute of limitations has passed, but state charges can still be brought. The Justice Department says the case will be reopened and federal resources committed.
ALEX ACOSTA, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR CIVIL RIGHTS: We owe it to Emmett Till. We owe it to his mother and to his family, and we owe it to ourselves to see if after all these years any additional measure of justice is still possible.
ARENA (on camera): Even if the investigation does not lead to any prosecutions setting the record straight is at least a start to addressing what has been called an ugly mark in U.S. history.
Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Emmett's mother, Mamie Till Mobley (ph), never lived to see her son's murder case reopened. She died last year, but the pressure that she exerted over four decades was finally recognized with the reopening of that case.
HEMMER: In a moment here, Brat Pitt's "Troy" is out this weekend. The stars were out last night here in New York City for that premiere. In a moment, we'll talk to Pitt about the movie and some personal family plans in California.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Is it time now to expand the Pitt-Aniston household?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
The answer to that in a moment.
O'BRIEN: What a tease!
HEMMER: Coming up. Brace yourselves.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning, money problems at Delta Airlines. Will the pilots take a pay cut? We'll ask that question when AMERICAN MORNING returns right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody. Come on, get with the program. Welcome back, everybody. The Dow dropping below 10,000. And as the tech stocks also tumble, can Cisco slow the slide? Meanwhile, Delta on the brink, and Chiquita drops a bombshell. All of those stories this morning. You've got lots to talk about, Andy Serwer.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: I've got a lot to talk about.
O'BRIEN: Tons. Let's start with the market from yesterday.
SERWER: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Oh.
SERWER: Well, I mean, the market is basically saying, yikes, higher interest rates are coming. OK, we knew that. What's all the excitement about? Let's take a look and see what happened yesterday. We did go below 10,000 for the first time since December 10. The market may be overreacting -- Bill Hemmer suggesting as much. And I think he could be right -- our market expert Bill Hemmer.
HEMMER: Thank you, Andy.
SERWER: Futures are up this morning. Cisco reporting after the bell, so we're going to be looking for some relief there.
Let's talk about Delta, because this is a huge story. Yesterday, the No. 3 airline filing a document suggesting that unless pilots take significant wage cuts -- and we're talking 30 percent, Soledad, 30 percent wage cuts -- the company could file bankruptcy. And it's the first time this company has suggested that. This comes only days after U.S. Air said essentially the same thing.
O'BRIEN: Right. SERWER: Of course, United, UAL, is in bankruptcy. American Airlines in not great shape either. And the big airlines continue to have rough times.
O'BRIEN: Major, major problems.
SERWER: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Then there is the story about Chiquita banana, the company.
SERWER: Yes.
O'BRIEN: I think it's -- I don't think it's an overstatement to say it is shocking.
SERWER: It is shocking. And, of course, Chiquita is based in what city, Bill?
HEMMER: Cincinnati.
SERWER: Cincinnati, Ohio. All right, you got this earnings release from Chiquita, the big banana company, and they talk about bananas and they talk about their new fresh cut fruit business and on and on. And it's very interesting and not really. And then you get something here that says, hang, on, on page two, well, the company's banana subsidiary in Colombia made protection payment to certain groups in that country, which have been designated under U.S. law as foreign terrorist organizations.
O'BRIEN: Is this their own statement?
SERWER: This is in their own statement right here in their earnings release yesterday. That's right. They're making payments to terrorist organizations in Columbia for protection for their banana workers.
Now, they also say here, I should point out, they were forced to make those payments. We're not quite sure what that means.
The Department of Justice is investigating. They did report this to the DOJ last year. But, you know, talk about slipping on a banana peel. I mean...
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: The dreaded banana terrorists are at it again.
SERWER: The banana -- well, you know, these are serious guerrillas in Colombia.
HEMMER: They are.
SERWER: But, you know, it's a very unusual situation.
O'BRIEN: But to put it in your report like that, that's bizarre.
SERWER: But I love just slipping it in, you know, just paragraph 4, oh, by the way, we have this situation here, right?
O'BRIEN: Wow!
CAFFERTY: But it's a legitimate expense, right? They've got to document it, I suppose.
SERWER: I guess that' right. You might as well tell investors, Jack, right?
CAFFERTY: Right.
SERWER: Yes.
O'BRIEN: All right, Andy, thanks.
SERWER: You're welcome.
HEMMER: To the question of the day.
CAFFERTY: To the question of the day. The prisoner abuse scandal, Bill, appears to be galvanizing opposition against the war in Iraq in this country. The most recent "USA Today"/CNN/Gallup poll shows the number of people who think it was worth going to Iraq to go to war is dropping dramatically. Fifty-four percent of Americans think it wasn't worth going to war in Iraq, and that's down significantly from just 33 percent who thought it was a bad idea as recently as December.
The prisoner abuse is being compared by some to the Tet (ph) offensive in Vietnam, which was a big event in turning public opinion against the war in Vietnam, a classic example of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, if you remember your history lessons.
Anyway, here are the answers to the question: Has the prisoner abuse scandal changed your view on the war in Iraq?
Kim in Farmingdale, New York: "Absolutely not. I was against it when I couldn't see the connection to 9/11, and I still think it was not worth 800 of the best and brightest men and women this country has to offer to find a man cowering in a hole in the ground."
Jason in Redding, Pennsylvania: "The Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal has not changed my view on the Iraq war at all. It just strengthens the case to get out of there as soon as possible. If we can't get our soldiers' hearts and minds on the same page as the ideals of our nation, how can we expect the Iraqis to follow our lead?"
Robert in Chicago: "Not one bit. Keep the civilians out of the damn thing and let the military do their job they were sent over there to do. War is hell, remember. I never heard the Germans or Japanese say I'm sorry."
Peter in Houston: "Absolutely not. But if it turns American against the war, it will be the greatest tragedy in American history. Iraq to the Islamic fundamentalists will be seen as a great victory for them just as they defeated the Russians in Afghanistan. Allah will have given them a great victory. If we pull out of Iraq, prepare for Armageddon in the U.S."
And Darren in Fairbanks, Alaska -- Alaska, by the way, will be in the "Cafferty File" later: "The abuse of Iraqi prisoners doesn't change my view of the war. It confirms it. I wonder what's going on at Guantanamo."
SERWER: Well, what did we do in Vietnam? We declared victory and left, right?
CAFFERTY: Yes.
SERWER: I mean, it may come to that.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
HEMMER: In the Tet (ph) offensive, a couple of Marines were killed in that uprising, but many, many Vietnamese paid a very dear price for what happened in February of '68.
CAFFERTY: Well, and the generals at that time figured they had the Vietcong on the run to the degree. If they got a couple of hundred of thousand more troops into the country they could crush the whole thing and win the war. The request was made to Washington, and it leaked out that they wanted this almost quarter of a million troops. The public thought it was because we had gotten beaten in the Tet (ph) offensive; that the VC was winning against us and they didn't want to sacrifice another 200,000 troops. That was the turning point psychologically in this country.
HEMMER: Keep them coming, AM@CNN.com.
Let's get a break. Here in a moment, Hollywood is gambling $200 million on the epic film, "Troy." Brad Pitt sits down and talks with here on AMERICAN MORNING, on whether or not he feels the pressure to meet the bottom line. Also his response to expanding the family with Jennifer Aniston. We'll get to that also, Jack. Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRAD PITT, ACTOR: Imagine a king that fights his own battle. Wouldn't that be a sight?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Brad Pitt is fighting the good fight. The warrior Achilles in the Trojan War epic, "Troy," that new movie is out this weekend, the actor's first starring role in three years. And not only is "Troy" one of the year's most-anticipated films, it's one of the most expensive, which for its leading man could be a double-edged sword.
I talked with Pitt recently. I asked him if he felt the need to have an epic on his resume.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PITT: It came along at a good time. I was off for a couple of years and I was ready to take on something really difficult and arduous. And so, but I don't know about stacking a resume. I just kind of go where the next one...
HEMMER: I've got to think, though, I mean, a guy like you, you probably get so many scripts put in front of you in California. Why did you pick this one?
PITT: I just -- it's one of the great stories in literature. And I thought the themes really resonated today, whether that was my projection or Homer's intentions, you know, it didn't seem like we'd come very far.
HEMMER: There's a lot into this film.
PITT: Yes.
HEMMER: Two hundred million dollars. Do you feel a certain pressure, though, when you are putting that much money into a film, trying to make it back at the box office?
PITT: You know, I try not to not to. Listen, the truth is, no, I don't really think that way, and I should think a little more that way.
HEMMER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE), I think, once said that acting is 80 percent running. And you have to look good physically when you're doing things.
PITT: That's funny.
HEMMER: And if you've thought about that, do you agree with that?
PITT: No, I don't.
HEMMER: No?
PITT: It depends on the tone of the film and what the film's about. But so much of it is about the -- it requires the research going in. This one was all about preparation and research.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER O'TOOLE, ACTOR: I cannot change what happened. It is the will of the gods.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Peter O'Toole was really involved in one of the first major epics films, "Lawrence of Arabia."
PITT: That's right. Yes, he cut the club.
HEMMER: Yes. What was it like working with him?
PITT: I don't know that I can do it justice, but for me, it was a pinnacle. He's very eloquent and very powerful in it, and it comes from a training that I haven't had. I don't completely understand. He's just one of the masters and a delight to be around.
HEMMER: Your wife made a joke, I think, on "Saturday Night Live" about starting a family together. Is it time now to expand the Pitt- Aniston household?
PITT: I think it's time. I think it's time. We've been in rehearsals long enough.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: You've got to think, how long was he thinking about that answer.
O'BRIEN: That was pretty funny.
HEMMER: We've been in rehearsals long enough. A good film. I liked it. I think he's a terrific athletic actor when it comes to this film. It's a great cast.
O'BRIEN: He's not hard to look at, is he?
CAFFERTY: Is this...
HEMMER: For the women, they'll like that. I don't know necessarily if it's a movie that everyone is going to enjoy. There's a lot of gore in fight scenes.
CAFFERTY: Is this the movie that Victor Matur (ph) made before Kirk Douglas made it, before Charlton Heston made it?
HEMMER: Correct, correct. But they have the benefit of technology, Jack, in 2004 to make it even better.
O'BRIEN: Brad Pitt is in this one. Did you miss that part of the interview?
CAFFERTY: If you'll forgive me, I'm -- what's up with the hair?
HEMMER: Listen, they had the premiere last night...
O'BRIEN: It looks like good.
CAFFERTY: Huh?
HEMMER: ... at the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) here in New York, too. So...
O'BRIEN: Let me get your mike for you.
CAFFERTY: Oh, thank you.
HEMMER: All right, catch up, Jack.
O'BRIEN: Yes, are you ready?
CAFFERTY: I'm ready, yes.
O'BRIEN: Are you prepared for the rest of the day?
CAFFERTY: I have nothing left to say, however.
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, the story that is topping our news, the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal gets another public airing on Capitol Hill. We're going to talk to one Democratic senator who is going to be asking questions just ahead. Stay with us. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
