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Car Bomb Kills President of Iraq's Governing Council; Did Secretary of Defense Approve Secret Plan That Led to Iraqi Prisoner Abuse?
Aired May 17, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Terrorism in Baghdad. A devastating toll today. A car bomb killing the president of Iraq's Governing Council.
A controversial report. Did the secretary of defense approve a secret plan that led to Iraqi prisoner abuse?
And the U.S. now the fourth country in the world where same sex couples can legally marry, at least in one state, and starting today, on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome everybody.
Other stories that we're following this morning: some serious questions about the future of Iraq's government in light of today's terrorist attack, and with the June 30 deadline getting, of course, closer and closer -- this morning we're going to check in with a chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Richard Lugar, about whether the current plan can actually work.
HEMMER: Also, the attorneys for Army Private Lynndie England -- she has in many ways become the American face in the prisoner abuse scandal.
We'll ask her attorneys about the story in "The New Yorker," about Donald Rumsfeld, and how it might change their legal strategy, if at all. That's coming up.
O'BRIEN: Mr. Cafferty. Did you have a nice weekend?
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: I had a delightful weekend.
American flags may be in short supply come this summer's Olympic games in Athens, Greece, if some officials get their way.
We'll explain, take a look at that, in a few minutes.
O'BRIEN: All right. Jack, thank you very much.
Let's get right to our top stories this morning.
The president of the Iraqi Governing Council has been killed in a car bomb attack outside coalition headquarters in Baghdad. The blast this morning killed up to six Iraqis near a coalition checkpoint.
The attack hits at the very heart of U.S. political efforts, of course, in Iraq.
Harris Whitbeck is live for us in Baghdad this morning. Harris, good morning.
HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN: Good morning, Soledad.
The Iraqi Governing Council is already taking steps to stabilize itself after the killing this morning of its president, Izzedine Salim, died this morning when the convoy he was traveling in was stopped at a checkpoint, and while it was negotiating that checkpoint, a car bomb -- suicide car bomb --apparently went off.
Eyewitnesses told CNN that they saw a red car waiting near the checkpoint for the arrival of Salim's convoy, and when it arrived, that is when this red car blew up.
Again, the Governing Council has already selected a new president. That is Ghazi Mashal Amil al-Yawer; he is a Sunni Muslim from the northern city of Mosul -- he was slated to become the president of Iraq's Governing Council next June.
As you know that is a rotating post. It was designed that way, Soledad, for members of Iraq's different ethnic groups could be present or have representation at a high level at the Iraqi Governing Council.
A senior U.S. military official said the bombing had the hallmarks of previous attacks by Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, the al Qaeda operative who has been tied to numerous attacks in Iraq, including last week's beheading of American Nicholas Berg.
Iraqi Governing Council members said that after today's attack they will not be intimidated and that they will, quote, continue working toward building a new Iraq.
Now, Salim's death is the second of a member of Iraq's Governing Council. Last September, Akada al Ashimi (ph), who was slated to become Iraq's new ambassador to the United Nations, was killed during an ambush outside of her home -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Harris Whitbeck for us this morning from Baghdad.
We should mention, Harris, of course, that we are expecting to hear from the Governing Council within the next hour or so, and of course we're going to bring those statements to you as soon as we get them.
Another question of course this morning -- will the prisoner abuse scandal impact the June 30 date for handing over power to an interim Iraqi government?
The Senate Foreign Relations Committee holds hearings this week on the transition to Iraqi sovereignty. Six weeks from now, Indiana Republican Richard Lugar chairs that committee. He joins us this morning from Washington to talk about the future of Iraq.
Nice to see you sir, thanks for being with us.
SEN. RICHARD LUGAR, (R) CHAIRMAN, FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Thank you, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Before we talk a little bit more about this prisoner scandal that we've been really discussing for weeks now, I want to talk to you a little bit about the president of the IGC. You just heard Harris Whitbeck's report, of course.
Killed in a car bomb attack, six other Iraqis with him as well.
To what degree do attacks -- does this specific attack -- and do attacks like this of high profile Iraqi officials undermine what you're hoping to do with the handover from June 30?
LUGAR: Well, they will not undermine the handover. That is going to occur, and clearly our policy makers are moving to put an Iraqi face on democracy and governance, likewise rapidly on security.
But it does indicate that as that changes, as there is more responsibility assumed by Iraqis, they are clearly in harms way in the same way that our fighting forces are or that of our allies.
In other words, it's a shared responsibility and a shared danger and as we saw today in this tragic killing, the Iraqis will not be intimidated. The Governing Council is going to continue on. But nevertheless, the loss is severe and this type of disruption is certainly unwanted.
O'BRIEN: This is the second time now that I've heard you say put an Iraqi face on the country as soon as possible.
Specifically what do you mean -- and explain to me what then the role of the U.S. and the U.S. military is and under the scenario that you're discussing.
LUGAR: Well, essentially Secretary Powell at the World Economic Forum answered an important question of his colleagues there and they said hypothetically what if the Iraqis on June 30 or thereabouts say to the United States of America we really don't want you here any longer. Would the United States leave?
And Secretary Powell says yes, and under those circumstances we would. Now he added that he anticipates the Governing Council and the new people that the ambassador from the U.N. is going to name will want the United States, will want others, to help in the security and I believe that they will to.
But this is certainly a transition in our own thinking in which we're saying finally Iraqis are going to have to step up to the plate themselves and make some tough decisions with regard to their security, how it will be coordinated with the United States of America and with others and we're going to have to do that very rapidly.
O'BRIEN: While we continue to talk, I want to show a picture of the announcement that's being made. We mentioned that the Iraqi Governing Council would be making an announcement in the wake of this really brutal terrorist attack and so I'll show you that.
We're going to listen to this and bring any of it to our viewers as soon as we hear something that's relevant to our discussion.
But as we're looking at this, I want to ask you a little bit of a question about elections. There's been some debate over exactly when the national elections should happen -- whether it should happen in the fall or whether it should happen next January. Where do you weigh in on this? What do you think is the best timeline and why?
LUGAR: Well, my view is that elections ought to occur sooner than later, and I have to say however there has to be at least some basis for deciding who is to be elected, whether it's the members of the Constitutional Council or regional people or who.
But Iraqis want to see some votes on the board. They want to vote for people that are governing them; they've made that very clear and that's particularly the case with the Ayatollah Sistani (ph) and the Shiites who have 60 percent of the votes. And they want to make certain that somehow democracy does not leave them adrift.
At the same time the Sunnis and the Kurds want to make certain that there are spaces for them in this. So, as certainly as we can get to some type of balloting in which Iraqis are involved and have some sense that these are their own legitimate persons in government then we'll be in better shape.
O'BRIEN: We started talking this morning about the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal and as I'm sure you well no presidential adviser Karl Rove said that he felt it would take a full generation before everyone essentially got over the scandal to some degree. How do you see the impact of this scandal effecting really Iraq's ability to get back on track and the relationship between the U.S. and Iraq?
LUGAR: Well, relationship has not been helped but let me just say for Iraqis who are under fire such as we've seen this tragic case of the provisional president killed this morning -- their intention is really on governance.
It's on survival; at least democratic elements that they hope will come to the fore. It's on survival of their country as a whole.
As bad as the prisoner scandal may be, there could very well be lots of other scandals and difficulties along the way but the major objectives are not going to be deterred and we have to be working carefully day by day in the midst of everything else that is being commented on on these elements of transition, of getting at least the hopes for democracy, democracy-building into the Iraqi system with enough security that the Iraqis themselves who are taking responsibility are not routinely killed and eliminated and thus cause disruption. O'BRIEN: Republican senator Richard Lugar from Indiana joining us this morning. Nice to see you sir. Thanks for your time as always -- Bill.
HEMMER: Other top stories this morning. Starting today in Massachusetts, thousands of people showing their support for gay marriage at city hall. People began lining up as the city of Cambridge began giving out same sex marriage licenses.
Today marks the first day gay couples can legally be married in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
National security adviser Condoleezza Rice holding talks in Berlin today with Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia -- another push by the White House to get peace talks between the Israelis and Palestinians moving forward.
Meanwhile, Israeli troops deployed in Southern Gaza, the operation being described by Israel as one to stop Palestinian militants moving through that region.
The federal government now promising to put cheaper lifesaving AIDS medications on the fast track to get to hard hit nations. The FDA will propose new guidelines for quicker approval of HIV combination drugs, part of President Bush's $15 billion AIDS relief proposal.
Also this morning: in sports the Sacramento Kings, Detroit Pistons hold on now to remain in the NBA's conference semi-finals.
Detroit beat the Nets last night 81-75. Richard Hamilton had 24 and after a Chris Webber victory prediction, the Kings turn in a convincing win over the Timberwolves. Final 104-87 in action on Sunday.
Also from Nebraska: fierce thunderstorms, tornadoes sweeping across the state last night, damaging homes and knocking down trees.
One powerful twister spotted near the town of Amelia. These are pictures of it tearing across the state. The good news, no reports of any injuries. Yet again the case where the video is striking.
O'BRIEN: We have seen day after day after day after day of what I -- I guess the first day we said wow those are pretty remarkable pictures of twisters. And then now by the third day they look like they're rerunning the same videotape. I mean, whoever is shooting those is pretty brave.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, oil prices rising again. Andy Serwer joins us to tell us what that means for you at the pump. My guess is bad news.
Also this morning as new allegations emerge in the prison abuse scandal, will they help or hurt accused U.S. soldiers? We're going to hear from lawyers for Pfc. Lynndie England coming up next.
HEMMER: Also 50 years after the Supreme Court outlawed segregation of public schools, does a racial divide still exist? We'll hear from education secretary Rod Paige on that topic in a moment.
O'BRIEN: And "Troy" conquers the competition at the box office just as Bill Hemmer predicted last week. Those stories all ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Investors, strap yourselves in today, looks to be a bumpy ride. Plus, we're talking about oil prices on the rise once again.
Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business" this morning. Good morning to you.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning to you Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Let's start with the market. Bumpy ride. That doesn't sound good for Wall Street ever.
SERWER: No, it is not. And again political events calling the shots here this morning, Soledad. Obviously they're bombing in Iraq not helping and we're going to talk about other things going on overseas.
First, let's recap last week. Not so bad, not so good. The Dow held over 10,000. I'm finding a silver lining here.
Down a little bit across the board. Now this morning overseas markets getting rocked. Particularly want to focus on India, a market we don't talk about too much but crashing big time today. Biggest one day drop ever. The market was down 17 percent at one point, now down 11 percent. Why?
Because of Sonia Gandhi's incoming election. She was elected; she will be taking office there and a leftist government, a lot of fear there that the end to privatization will occur -- and business people not liking that. A big, big sell off there. It's an increasingly important market for the United States, a very fast growing economy.
The Nikkei in Japan at a three month low; the Euro topped three hundred, which are the biggest stocks in Europe. Also, way, way down as well. And again just stuff that is rocking our world here from abroad.
O'BRIEN: And gas prices. We already thought they were three dollars up and more in California. What's it look like now?
SERWER: Well, it doesn't look like there's any relief coming at all. Markets -- the oil markets also just continuing to go up and we're going to be looking at that today as well. A lot of talk, Soledad, about releasing these strategic petroleum reserve, which is a large pool of oil, if you will. The U.S. government holds in reserve. $700 million barrels nearly in that and we use $20 million barrels of oil a day in the United States, 12 million imported. But you're only supposed to use that under emergency situations and the government saying we haven't' hit that yet.
O'BRIEN: Yes, many people saying the same thing; it's not at that point yet. Andy, thank you very much.
SERWER: You're welcome.
HEMMER: To the "Question of the Day." And Jack.
CAFFERTY: Thank you, Bill. U.S. Olympic officials are warning American athletes not to wave this country's flag during the medal ceremonies at the upcoming Athens Olympics this summer.
According to "The London Telegraph," they're worried that it could provoke hostility from the crowd and worsen America's already battered image. The tradition of our athletes waving the American flag goes back a good long way.
Remember this one? An enduring image. George Foreman, waving the U.S. flag after he won the gold medal in heavyweight boxing in the 1968 games down in Mexico City.
That was at the same time that some of the track and field athletes were doing the black power salute and that shot of George Foreman probably sells an awful lot of grills even to this day. It was one of the more enduring shots ever taken at the Olympic games.
At the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City, the American flag one of the defining symbols. The question this morning is this: should American athletes not wave the flag at the summer Olympic games in Athens? You can e-mail us at am@cnn.com and we'll read some of your responses a bit later.
HEMMER: For some of these people the greatest moment in their lives will take place at these games.
CAFFERTY: Yes, it's a consensus that the United States will dominate those games; we will win over 100 medals, probably. No other country in the world will come close. The Olympics probably ought to be kept separate from the world body politic but that's not going to happen, I suppose.
HEMMER: Tough to do in 2004.
CAFFERTY: The other thing is that's assuming anybody shows up at these games. I mean they were testing some of the bombs over there a couple of weeks ago, weren't they? I mean...
SERWER: Yes.
HEMMER: Thanks, Jack.
O'BRIEN: IOC said that that was nothing to be concerned about.
CAFFERTY: Yes, well, they would say that. They weren't there when the bomb went off. Yes.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jack. am@cnn.com. In a moment here an explosion in Baghdad claims the life of the president of Iraq's governing council. What will this mean now for the transition expected in about a month and a half?
Also interrogation methods question in Iraq's Abu Ghraib Prison. One soldier's claim versus the military and the government. We'll hear from Pfc. Lynndie England's attorneys in a moment when we continue after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: The Pentagon today again vehemently denying the latest prisoner abuse scandal claims being made in a new article by investigative journalist Seymour Hersh.
In the current issue of "The New Yorker" magazine, Hersh reports that the abuses at the Abu Ghraib Prison resulted from a secret plan approved by the defense secretary which included tougher interrogation methods to help fight the insurgents.
The opening of the defense department's responding statement reads -- I'm quoting now -- "The article in this week's "New Yorker" magazine by Seymour Hersh is based on what appears to be a single anonymous source that makes dramatically false assertions. The burden of proof for these false claims rests upon the reporter."
We'll talk to the reporter, journalist Seymour Hersh, in our next hour here on AMERICAN MORNING.
On a related topic now, how will these latest claims by Hersh affect defense strategies for those soldiers facing courts martial's in the scandal? One of the attorneys for Lynndie England, Pfc., the female soldier seen in some of the pictures taken inside that prison. The attorney now, Giorgio Rashadd is with us now from D.C. to talk about this.
Welcome back now to AMERICAN MORNING. Good morning to you there.
GIORGIO RASHADD, ATTORNEY FOR PFC. LYNNDIE ENGLAND: Thank you, Mr. Hemmer.
HEMMER: There was a piece over the weekend in "The New York Times" that quotes your client at one point saying we thought it looked funny so pictures were taken. Are you worried when you hear quotes like these in public about effecting your case?
RASHADD: Well, actually, I'm not, and I'll tell you why.
There really is no way that the government can have a legal document that communicates anything to that effect. And here's the reason why.
My client had counsel, Mr. Roy Hardy as far back as I believe October of last year. The government was aware that she had counsel as far back as October because they were aware that she was communicating with counsel regarding a divorce.
So, I am sure that the Army would not do anything to violate her right to counsel.
Now, on top of that, I have a document that indicates that she invoked her right to counsel and that the military knew it. Now, I became her counsel May 3.
I'm told that the report that you're speaking about and that was quoted indicates that she gave a statement on May 5.
Well, I'll tell you this: if the Army acted to take a statement from my client on May 5 knowing that she had Roy Hardy as counsel in October and me as counsel on May 3, then we will go absolutely ballistic.
HEMMER: So you're saying that you'll try and suppress this statement and get it thrown out, right?
RASHADD: What I'm trying to say is I'm going to request sanctions against the Army, against anyone who knew she had counsel as far back as October and went back to her after she had invoked her right to counsel.
This is not just offensive to all inclinations of due process and equal protection of laws, but this is basic to her fundamental rights under the 5th and 6th Amendment. So, this is absolutely outrageous if this is the case.
Now I just found out about it because I flew in from Fort Bragg about 3:30 this morning. So I haven't actually seen these alleged statements, but if they did that knowing that she had two counsels during this time period, then that is absolutely outrageous...
HEMMER: Let me try and get to the heart of the matter in the short time we have left here. If she admits it and you don't win your argument that hurts your case doesn't it?
RASHADD: Could you say that again, Bill?
HEMMER: If you do not win the argument you just laid out for us and she admits this in the interviews that were published, that hurts your case, right?
RASHADD: Tell me again what you say the quote is.
HEMMER: We thought it looked funny so pictures were taken. Essentially admitting that it happened.
RASHADD: Well, I tell you if that is an accurate quote, then you would be concerned with regard to who was there when the statement was made and the context.
Now, not having been given full discovery, as you know, of all the information at the Senate Armed Services Committee has, which is why I'm here -- to request that discovery -- I would be concerned that one, it's out of context -- two, that the document in fact may not be true and three, that if it is true we don't know the context but if it is true that the Army has been acting nefariously to get statements from soldiers by circumventing their 5th and 6th Amendment rights.
Now that would be consistent with their behavior of circumventing the Geneva Conventions. And that's outrageous.
HEMMER: Let's leave it there and come back and we'll talk more about it -- a lot more that we need to plow through.
Giorgio Rashadd from D.C. this morning representing Lynndie England. Thank you, sir.
RASHADD: You're welcome.
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning the ultimate boxing film takes on a musical and sure, maybe not, "Rocky" is squaring off in the fight to be on Broadway. Is the Italian Stallion ready for the Great White Way?
And what's in a name? If you in fact are the child of Gwyneth Paltrow? That's just part of our "90-Second Pop" this Monday morning. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired May 17, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Terrorism in Baghdad. A devastating toll today. A car bomb killing the president of Iraq's Governing Council.
A controversial report. Did the secretary of defense approve a secret plan that led to Iraqi prisoner abuse?
And the U.S. now the fourth country in the world where same sex couples can legally marry, at least in one state, and starting today, on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome everybody.
Other stories that we're following this morning: some serious questions about the future of Iraq's government in light of today's terrorist attack, and with the June 30 deadline getting, of course, closer and closer -- this morning we're going to check in with a chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Richard Lugar, about whether the current plan can actually work.
HEMMER: Also, the attorneys for Army Private Lynndie England -- she has in many ways become the American face in the prisoner abuse scandal.
We'll ask her attorneys about the story in "The New Yorker," about Donald Rumsfeld, and how it might change their legal strategy, if at all. That's coming up.
O'BRIEN: Mr. Cafferty. Did you have a nice weekend?
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: I had a delightful weekend.
American flags may be in short supply come this summer's Olympic games in Athens, Greece, if some officials get their way.
We'll explain, take a look at that, in a few minutes.
O'BRIEN: All right. Jack, thank you very much.
Let's get right to our top stories this morning.
The president of the Iraqi Governing Council has been killed in a car bomb attack outside coalition headquarters in Baghdad. The blast this morning killed up to six Iraqis near a coalition checkpoint.
The attack hits at the very heart of U.S. political efforts, of course, in Iraq.
Harris Whitbeck is live for us in Baghdad this morning. Harris, good morning.
HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN: Good morning, Soledad.
The Iraqi Governing Council is already taking steps to stabilize itself after the killing this morning of its president, Izzedine Salim, died this morning when the convoy he was traveling in was stopped at a checkpoint, and while it was negotiating that checkpoint, a car bomb -- suicide car bomb --apparently went off.
Eyewitnesses told CNN that they saw a red car waiting near the checkpoint for the arrival of Salim's convoy, and when it arrived, that is when this red car blew up.
Again, the Governing Council has already selected a new president. That is Ghazi Mashal Amil al-Yawer; he is a Sunni Muslim from the northern city of Mosul -- he was slated to become the president of Iraq's Governing Council next June.
As you know that is a rotating post. It was designed that way, Soledad, for members of Iraq's different ethnic groups could be present or have representation at a high level at the Iraqi Governing Council.
A senior U.S. military official said the bombing had the hallmarks of previous attacks by Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, the al Qaeda operative who has been tied to numerous attacks in Iraq, including last week's beheading of American Nicholas Berg.
Iraqi Governing Council members said that after today's attack they will not be intimidated and that they will, quote, continue working toward building a new Iraq.
Now, Salim's death is the second of a member of Iraq's Governing Council. Last September, Akada al Ashimi (ph), who was slated to become Iraq's new ambassador to the United Nations, was killed during an ambush outside of her home -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Harris Whitbeck for us this morning from Baghdad.
We should mention, Harris, of course, that we are expecting to hear from the Governing Council within the next hour or so, and of course we're going to bring those statements to you as soon as we get them.
Another question of course this morning -- will the prisoner abuse scandal impact the June 30 date for handing over power to an interim Iraqi government?
The Senate Foreign Relations Committee holds hearings this week on the transition to Iraqi sovereignty. Six weeks from now, Indiana Republican Richard Lugar chairs that committee. He joins us this morning from Washington to talk about the future of Iraq.
Nice to see you sir, thanks for being with us.
SEN. RICHARD LUGAR, (R) CHAIRMAN, FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Thank you, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Before we talk a little bit more about this prisoner scandal that we've been really discussing for weeks now, I want to talk to you a little bit about the president of the IGC. You just heard Harris Whitbeck's report, of course.
Killed in a car bomb attack, six other Iraqis with him as well.
To what degree do attacks -- does this specific attack -- and do attacks like this of high profile Iraqi officials undermine what you're hoping to do with the handover from June 30?
LUGAR: Well, they will not undermine the handover. That is going to occur, and clearly our policy makers are moving to put an Iraqi face on democracy and governance, likewise rapidly on security.
But it does indicate that as that changes, as there is more responsibility assumed by Iraqis, they are clearly in harms way in the same way that our fighting forces are or that of our allies.
In other words, it's a shared responsibility and a shared danger and as we saw today in this tragic killing, the Iraqis will not be intimidated. The Governing Council is going to continue on. But nevertheless, the loss is severe and this type of disruption is certainly unwanted.
O'BRIEN: This is the second time now that I've heard you say put an Iraqi face on the country as soon as possible.
Specifically what do you mean -- and explain to me what then the role of the U.S. and the U.S. military is and under the scenario that you're discussing.
LUGAR: Well, essentially Secretary Powell at the World Economic Forum answered an important question of his colleagues there and they said hypothetically what if the Iraqis on June 30 or thereabouts say to the United States of America we really don't want you here any longer. Would the United States leave?
And Secretary Powell says yes, and under those circumstances we would. Now he added that he anticipates the Governing Council and the new people that the ambassador from the U.N. is going to name will want the United States, will want others, to help in the security and I believe that they will to.
But this is certainly a transition in our own thinking in which we're saying finally Iraqis are going to have to step up to the plate themselves and make some tough decisions with regard to their security, how it will be coordinated with the United States of America and with others and we're going to have to do that very rapidly.
O'BRIEN: While we continue to talk, I want to show a picture of the announcement that's being made. We mentioned that the Iraqi Governing Council would be making an announcement in the wake of this really brutal terrorist attack and so I'll show you that.
We're going to listen to this and bring any of it to our viewers as soon as we hear something that's relevant to our discussion.
But as we're looking at this, I want to ask you a little bit of a question about elections. There's been some debate over exactly when the national elections should happen -- whether it should happen in the fall or whether it should happen next January. Where do you weigh in on this? What do you think is the best timeline and why?
LUGAR: Well, my view is that elections ought to occur sooner than later, and I have to say however there has to be at least some basis for deciding who is to be elected, whether it's the members of the Constitutional Council or regional people or who.
But Iraqis want to see some votes on the board. They want to vote for people that are governing them; they've made that very clear and that's particularly the case with the Ayatollah Sistani (ph) and the Shiites who have 60 percent of the votes. And they want to make certain that somehow democracy does not leave them adrift.
At the same time the Sunnis and the Kurds want to make certain that there are spaces for them in this. So, as certainly as we can get to some type of balloting in which Iraqis are involved and have some sense that these are their own legitimate persons in government then we'll be in better shape.
O'BRIEN: We started talking this morning about the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal and as I'm sure you well no presidential adviser Karl Rove said that he felt it would take a full generation before everyone essentially got over the scandal to some degree. How do you see the impact of this scandal effecting really Iraq's ability to get back on track and the relationship between the U.S. and Iraq?
LUGAR: Well, relationship has not been helped but let me just say for Iraqis who are under fire such as we've seen this tragic case of the provisional president killed this morning -- their intention is really on governance.
It's on survival; at least democratic elements that they hope will come to the fore. It's on survival of their country as a whole.
As bad as the prisoner scandal may be, there could very well be lots of other scandals and difficulties along the way but the major objectives are not going to be deterred and we have to be working carefully day by day in the midst of everything else that is being commented on on these elements of transition, of getting at least the hopes for democracy, democracy-building into the Iraqi system with enough security that the Iraqis themselves who are taking responsibility are not routinely killed and eliminated and thus cause disruption. O'BRIEN: Republican senator Richard Lugar from Indiana joining us this morning. Nice to see you sir. Thanks for your time as always -- Bill.
HEMMER: Other top stories this morning. Starting today in Massachusetts, thousands of people showing their support for gay marriage at city hall. People began lining up as the city of Cambridge began giving out same sex marriage licenses.
Today marks the first day gay couples can legally be married in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
National security adviser Condoleezza Rice holding talks in Berlin today with Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia -- another push by the White House to get peace talks between the Israelis and Palestinians moving forward.
Meanwhile, Israeli troops deployed in Southern Gaza, the operation being described by Israel as one to stop Palestinian militants moving through that region.
The federal government now promising to put cheaper lifesaving AIDS medications on the fast track to get to hard hit nations. The FDA will propose new guidelines for quicker approval of HIV combination drugs, part of President Bush's $15 billion AIDS relief proposal.
Also this morning: in sports the Sacramento Kings, Detroit Pistons hold on now to remain in the NBA's conference semi-finals.
Detroit beat the Nets last night 81-75. Richard Hamilton had 24 and after a Chris Webber victory prediction, the Kings turn in a convincing win over the Timberwolves. Final 104-87 in action on Sunday.
Also from Nebraska: fierce thunderstorms, tornadoes sweeping across the state last night, damaging homes and knocking down trees.
One powerful twister spotted near the town of Amelia. These are pictures of it tearing across the state. The good news, no reports of any injuries. Yet again the case where the video is striking.
O'BRIEN: We have seen day after day after day after day of what I -- I guess the first day we said wow those are pretty remarkable pictures of twisters. And then now by the third day they look like they're rerunning the same videotape. I mean, whoever is shooting those is pretty brave.
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O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, oil prices rising again. Andy Serwer joins us to tell us what that means for you at the pump. My guess is bad news.
Also this morning as new allegations emerge in the prison abuse scandal, will they help or hurt accused U.S. soldiers? We're going to hear from lawyers for Pfc. Lynndie England coming up next.
HEMMER: Also 50 years after the Supreme Court outlawed segregation of public schools, does a racial divide still exist? We'll hear from education secretary Rod Paige on that topic in a moment.
O'BRIEN: And "Troy" conquers the competition at the box office just as Bill Hemmer predicted last week. Those stories all ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues.
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O'BRIEN: Investors, strap yourselves in today, looks to be a bumpy ride. Plus, we're talking about oil prices on the rise once again.
Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business" this morning. Good morning to you.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning to you Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Let's start with the market. Bumpy ride. That doesn't sound good for Wall Street ever.
SERWER: No, it is not. And again political events calling the shots here this morning, Soledad. Obviously they're bombing in Iraq not helping and we're going to talk about other things going on overseas.
First, let's recap last week. Not so bad, not so good. The Dow held over 10,000. I'm finding a silver lining here.
Down a little bit across the board. Now this morning overseas markets getting rocked. Particularly want to focus on India, a market we don't talk about too much but crashing big time today. Biggest one day drop ever. The market was down 17 percent at one point, now down 11 percent. Why?
Because of Sonia Gandhi's incoming election. She was elected; she will be taking office there and a leftist government, a lot of fear there that the end to privatization will occur -- and business people not liking that. A big, big sell off there. It's an increasingly important market for the United States, a very fast growing economy.
The Nikkei in Japan at a three month low; the Euro topped three hundred, which are the biggest stocks in Europe. Also, way, way down as well. And again just stuff that is rocking our world here from abroad.
O'BRIEN: And gas prices. We already thought they were three dollars up and more in California. What's it look like now?
SERWER: Well, it doesn't look like there's any relief coming at all. Markets -- the oil markets also just continuing to go up and we're going to be looking at that today as well. A lot of talk, Soledad, about releasing these strategic petroleum reserve, which is a large pool of oil, if you will. The U.S. government holds in reserve. $700 million barrels nearly in that and we use $20 million barrels of oil a day in the United States, 12 million imported. But you're only supposed to use that under emergency situations and the government saying we haven't' hit that yet.
O'BRIEN: Yes, many people saying the same thing; it's not at that point yet. Andy, thank you very much.
SERWER: You're welcome.
HEMMER: To the "Question of the Day." And Jack.
CAFFERTY: Thank you, Bill. U.S. Olympic officials are warning American athletes not to wave this country's flag during the medal ceremonies at the upcoming Athens Olympics this summer.
According to "The London Telegraph," they're worried that it could provoke hostility from the crowd and worsen America's already battered image. The tradition of our athletes waving the American flag goes back a good long way.
Remember this one? An enduring image. George Foreman, waving the U.S. flag after he won the gold medal in heavyweight boxing in the 1968 games down in Mexico City.
That was at the same time that some of the track and field athletes were doing the black power salute and that shot of George Foreman probably sells an awful lot of grills even to this day. It was one of the more enduring shots ever taken at the Olympic games.
At the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City, the American flag one of the defining symbols. The question this morning is this: should American athletes not wave the flag at the summer Olympic games in Athens? You can e-mail us at am@cnn.com and we'll read some of your responses a bit later.
HEMMER: For some of these people the greatest moment in their lives will take place at these games.
CAFFERTY: Yes, it's a consensus that the United States will dominate those games; we will win over 100 medals, probably. No other country in the world will come close. The Olympics probably ought to be kept separate from the world body politic but that's not going to happen, I suppose.
HEMMER: Tough to do in 2004.
CAFFERTY: The other thing is that's assuming anybody shows up at these games. I mean they were testing some of the bombs over there a couple of weeks ago, weren't they? I mean...
SERWER: Yes.
HEMMER: Thanks, Jack.
O'BRIEN: IOC said that that was nothing to be concerned about.
CAFFERTY: Yes, well, they would say that. They weren't there when the bomb went off. Yes.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jack. am@cnn.com. In a moment here an explosion in Baghdad claims the life of the president of Iraq's governing council. What will this mean now for the transition expected in about a month and a half?
Also interrogation methods question in Iraq's Abu Ghraib Prison. One soldier's claim versus the military and the government. We'll hear from Pfc. Lynndie England's attorneys in a moment when we continue after this.
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HEMMER: The Pentagon today again vehemently denying the latest prisoner abuse scandal claims being made in a new article by investigative journalist Seymour Hersh.
In the current issue of "The New Yorker" magazine, Hersh reports that the abuses at the Abu Ghraib Prison resulted from a secret plan approved by the defense secretary which included tougher interrogation methods to help fight the insurgents.
The opening of the defense department's responding statement reads -- I'm quoting now -- "The article in this week's "New Yorker" magazine by Seymour Hersh is based on what appears to be a single anonymous source that makes dramatically false assertions. The burden of proof for these false claims rests upon the reporter."
We'll talk to the reporter, journalist Seymour Hersh, in our next hour here on AMERICAN MORNING.
On a related topic now, how will these latest claims by Hersh affect defense strategies for those soldiers facing courts martial's in the scandal? One of the attorneys for Lynndie England, Pfc., the female soldier seen in some of the pictures taken inside that prison. The attorney now, Giorgio Rashadd is with us now from D.C. to talk about this.
Welcome back now to AMERICAN MORNING. Good morning to you there.
GIORGIO RASHADD, ATTORNEY FOR PFC. LYNNDIE ENGLAND: Thank you, Mr. Hemmer.
HEMMER: There was a piece over the weekend in "The New York Times" that quotes your client at one point saying we thought it looked funny so pictures were taken. Are you worried when you hear quotes like these in public about effecting your case?
RASHADD: Well, actually, I'm not, and I'll tell you why.
There really is no way that the government can have a legal document that communicates anything to that effect. And here's the reason why.
My client had counsel, Mr. Roy Hardy as far back as I believe October of last year. The government was aware that she had counsel as far back as October because they were aware that she was communicating with counsel regarding a divorce.
So, I am sure that the Army would not do anything to violate her right to counsel.
Now, on top of that, I have a document that indicates that she invoked her right to counsel and that the military knew it. Now, I became her counsel May 3.
I'm told that the report that you're speaking about and that was quoted indicates that she gave a statement on May 5.
Well, I'll tell you this: if the Army acted to take a statement from my client on May 5 knowing that she had Roy Hardy as counsel in October and me as counsel on May 3, then we will go absolutely ballistic.
HEMMER: So you're saying that you'll try and suppress this statement and get it thrown out, right?
RASHADD: What I'm trying to say is I'm going to request sanctions against the Army, against anyone who knew she had counsel as far back as October and went back to her after she had invoked her right to counsel.
This is not just offensive to all inclinations of due process and equal protection of laws, but this is basic to her fundamental rights under the 5th and 6th Amendment. So, this is absolutely outrageous if this is the case.
Now I just found out about it because I flew in from Fort Bragg about 3:30 this morning. So I haven't actually seen these alleged statements, but if they did that knowing that she had two counsels during this time period, then that is absolutely outrageous...
HEMMER: Let me try and get to the heart of the matter in the short time we have left here. If she admits it and you don't win your argument that hurts your case doesn't it?
RASHADD: Could you say that again, Bill?
HEMMER: If you do not win the argument you just laid out for us and she admits this in the interviews that were published, that hurts your case, right?
RASHADD: Tell me again what you say the quote is.
HEMMER: We thought it looked funny so pictures were taken. Essentially admitting that it happened.
RASHADD: Well, I tell you if that is an accurate quote, then you would be concerned with regard to who was there when the statement was made and the context.
Now, not having been given full discovery, as you know, of all the information at the Senate Armed Services Committee has, which is why I'm here -- to request that discovery -- I would be concerned that one, it's out of context -- two, that the document in fact may not be true and three, that if it is true we don't know the context but if it is true that the Army has been acting nefariously to get statements from soldiers by circumventing their 5th and 6th Amendment rights.
Now that would be consistent with their behavior of circumventing the Geneva Conventions. And that's outrageous.
HEMMER: Let's leave it there and come back and we'll talk more about it -- a lot more that we need to plow through.
Giorgio Rashadd from D.C. this morning representing Lynndie England. Thank you, sir.
RASHADD: You're welcome.
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning the ultimate boxing film takes on a musical and sure, maybe not, "Rocky" is squaring off in the fight to be on Broadway. Is the Italian Stallion ready for the Great White Way?
And what's in a name? If you in fact are the child of Gwyneth Paltrow? That's just part of our "90-Second Pop" this Monday morning. Stay with us.
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