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American Morning
Substance of Terror Threat That Continues to Be Posed by Al Qaeda; Discussing the Allegations by Defense Attorneys for Kobe Bryant
Aired May 26, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Some reporting says that there are multiple attacks that may occur in the next couple of months.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
What does the U.S. know about al Qaeda and possible plans for a major attack here in this country?
Has the U.S. found evidence of WMD -- an exclusive interview today with the chief weapons hunter in Iraq.
And where the water goes now -- the Midwest bracing now for more rising rivers on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
Welcome, everybody.
New concerns about terrorism topping our news today. Experts are saying that al Qaeda may have as many as 18,000 members worldwide and there are some in the U.S. looking for the possibility of an attack this summer. We're going to talk to one of those experts closely following al Qaeda's strength, Terence Taylor. That's in just a few moments.
HEMMER: Also, a few legal questions today. Jeff Toobin in a moment looking at the Scott Peterson matter. Another defense motion claiming the prosecution might have been breaking the rules. Is it enough to have the defense score points? Some are suggesting that the case will be thrown out. Whatever the case, we'll get to Jeff Toobin on that topic.
Also, Kobe Bryant matters in a moment, as well.
O'BRIEN: But first, let's get to Jack Cafferty and the question...
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Are you off tomorrow?
HEMMER: As a matter of fact, yes.
CAFFERTY: Nobody cares.
HEMMER: And Friday.
And what about you, Cafferty?
CAFFERTY: Yes, I'll be here.
HEMMER: Huh?
CAFFERTY: Soledad and I will be here trying to fill the huge void that exists when you're gone.
HEMMER: Don't call me.
CAFFERTY: Coming up in the Cafferty File today, things people have said that got our attention, including comments about a new rap star on the horizon named Hassle the Hoff. And also we're going to talk a little about that see-through dress that John Kerry's daughter wore at the Cannes Film Festival. And I mean it was see through. She might have as well have worn Saran Wrap.
O'BRIEN: Exactly.
CAFFERTY: Nothing, you know? I wonder what he thought about that.
O'BRIEN: Kerry himself?
CAFFERTY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: I think I thought...
CAFFERTY: I mean, you know, I've got...
O'BRIEN: ... honey, maybe next time a little thing underneath would be good.
HEMMER: You've got a few daughters.
CAFFERTY: I've got four daughters. If I saw a picture like that of one of them in a magazine...
O'BRIEN: Yes, very appealing.
CAFFERTY: ... I would have problems, you know what I'm saying? And she would have problems after I had problems.
HEMMER: That's the point.
O'BRIEN: That's what you're aiming for.
CAFFERTY: Yes. O'BRIEN: All right, that's what we were waiting for.
All right, Jack, thanks.
Looking forward to that.
The top story this morning, not only al Qaeda alive and well, there may be as many as 18,000 operatives in 60 countries at its disposal. That comes to us according to a report that's out today from the National Institute for Strategic Studies. The report also says the war in Iraq has helped al Qaeda's recruiting effort.
Terence Taylor is the head of the group's U.S. division.
He joins us from Washington this morning.
Nice to see you, sir.
Thanks for being with us.
TERENCE TAYLOR, INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR STRATEGIC STUDIES: Good morning.
O'BRIEN: Where do you get this 18,000 figure from?
TAYLOR: Well, this figure is derived from the figure of 20,000, which is generally recognized as being the number of people that went through the training camps in Afghanistan between around 1996 and 2000, prior to the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan. So these people have gone through that system and are out in the community. And as you said in your introduction, they're spread across 60 countries.
It doesn't mean that all 18,000 that might support al Qaeda are active terrorists. It doesn't mean that. But that's the potential reservoir from which al Qaeda like groups can draw recruits.
O'BRIEN: We've been talking a lot this morning about a possible attack this summer here in the U.S. by al Qaeda.
Based on what you know and the research you've done on this group, does that sound plausible to you?
TAYLOR: It certainly sounds plausible. What has been happening over the past two years or so is that the terrorist groups, which is a network of networks, if you like, some groups acting on their own initiative, have been carrying out attacks against opportunity targets, with the exception of Madrid in Spain. They've been against targets in Turkey, for example; in Morocco; in Bali in Indonesia; where targets of opportunity show up.
But, of course, the overall strategic objective is an attack on major Western powers and their interests, of course, in the Islamic world.
O'BRIEN: You say that the structure has changed. One thing that has changed in recent years in al Qaeda is that the structure has changed. It's no longer hierarchical. It's no longer financially backed, necessarily, from the center.
What's the import and the impact of those changes?
TAYLOR: Well, on the one hand, it makes it a little bit more difficult for the al Qaeda groups to mount a highly coordinated, highly sophisticated attack, although that can't be ruled out. So we have a very flat structure across 60 countries, as we've already said, which can operate independently. There is strategic direction, very general strategic direction from the center, probably from Osama bin Laden himself and his close lieutenants.
So it's a very much more difficult target for intelligence agencies, for example, for them to track them down. There are no clear territorial bases, for example.
O'BRIEN: A moment ago, you talked about strikes of opportunity.
Has the war in Iraq, do you think, created more terrorists just sheerly because more opportunity -- American soldiers in Iraq -- has been created?
TAYLOR: Well, certainly the Iraq military invasion and the subsequent events have provided what al Qaeda sympathizers view as an opportunity target. And certainly as the Institute's report points out, there are maybe up to 1,000 al Qaeda sympathizers operating in Iraq. So in some senses, the U.S. and its allies are presenting a form of target there, a place where they can attack directly coalition forces.
O'BRIEN: Terence Taylor with the International Institute for Strategic Studies, joining us this morning.
Nice to see you, sir, as always.
Thanks for being with us.
TAYLOR: It's my pleasure.
O'BRIEN: Bill.
HEMMER: About six minutes past the hour now.
To other news about this terror alert warning. The attorney general later today, John Ashcroft; the FBI director, Robert Mueller; they will hold a news conference later today, no doubt taking questions about the latest intelligence information suggesting that terrorists might be planning a major attack here in the U.S. some time this summer.
Last hour on "American Morning," I talked with Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge about whether or not that terror alert will change before this weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RIDGE: There is absolutely nothing specific enough or that rises to the level where we would presently today, as we speak, make a recommendation to the president to raise the threat level. What I think it's important for America to know is that we don't need to raise the threat level in order to continue to work every day to improve security.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Secretary Ridge from last hour.
Still, though, major U.S. cities are on notice. So, too, in Miami, Florida we find that to be the case. The police chief, John Timoney, back with us here on AMERICAN MORNING.
Chief, good morning to you.
(AUDIO GAP)
HEMMER: If you can hear me, sir? I can't hear you, so I'll try it again here.
Good morning to you.
(AUDIO GAP)
HEMMER: All right, that's going to be a bit of an issue today.
Hang on one second there and I'll try and get this figured out here.
In the meantime, let me try and pose this question and perhaps we can pick up your microphone.
Tom Ridge last hour said the terror alert level does not change. He also said the intelligence they're working on today was culled together over the past six to eight weeks.
If that's the case, then, how real is the threat, Chief?
(AUDIO GAP)
HEMMER: A swing and a miss.
Our apologies to our viewers and especially to the chief down there in Miami, Florida, John Timoney.
If we get it worked out, we'll get you back there in Miami in a moment.
To other news and Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Yes, all right, let's get to that as soon as we get to this story first.
We've been covering what's going on in Illinois. No relief yet from the floodwaters there brought by severe Midwestern storms. River levels in some areas are still rising and more evacuations may be necessary. The town of Des Plaines is expecting the very worst tonight.
So how are the residents coping?
Lisa Wodek is a homeowner in Des Plaines and she joins us this morning.
Lisa, nice to see you.
Thanks for being with us.
And give me a sense of how you're doing, considering the really bad couple of days you guys have had there.
LISA WODEK, DES PLAINES, ILLINOIS: Well, good morning.
We're coping very well, actually. We've prepared our house. We've sandbagged. We've gotten extra pumps brought in to help us if the basement does flood. And, you know, we've been just -- now we're just waiting.
O'BRIEN: I see you sitting out by the river. How close is your house to this river? I mean what are we talking about the likelihood that you're going to have some major flooding in the next 24 hours?
WODEK: You know, like I said, we're just waiting to see. If it comes up, you know, as predicted, a couple more feet, it could be close to my house.
O'BRIEN: We've seen some pictures of some serious damage in your area.
Describe for me what you have seen among some of your neighbors' homes.
WODEK: There is a house that the garage is underwater and his basement has gotten some water. Right now the rest of us are just bracing for the river to rise and we're waiting to see what's going to happen.
O'BRIEN: Are you camped out in your home? Is that the strategy? Or have you been evacuated and you're just going to sort of cross your fingers and do it from a location where you aren't going to be at risk?
WODEK: We're still in our homes. Like I said, right now we're OK. They have set up shelters for us in the city of Des Plaines. They've done a lot of work to help us out. The city has been just great. Sandbags, they've provided a lot of, you know, the Salvation Army has been out here providing us with food and water. And like I said, we're just waiting right now.
O'BRIEN: The community, how have they been holding together, because I've covered a lot of floods and I know that filling those sandbags is not an easy task. It's a ton of work for a lot of people to make any real dent in covering a house.
How has that been?
WODEK: It's been great. Our street, you know, we've all banded together. We've gotten our friends and family. I mean everybody has just been fantastic. Everybody is calling to offer help. We've had the -- the city has provided all their workers to come out and help us and we've even had some extra help from just volunteers, people driving down the street offering to help. They don't even live around here and they're just -- the outpouring of help has just been fantastic.
O'BRIEN: Well, I'm glad to hear that. We're going to keep our fingers crossed for you, as well, that you have very little damage in the next 24 hours as some things are supposed to get a little bit worse.
Lisa Wodek, a homeowner in Des Plaines, joining us this morning.
Good luck to you and your family, as well.
WODEK: Thank you very much.
O'BRIEN: You're welcome -- Bill.
HEMMER: About 10 minutes past the hour now.
Shoddy police work, prosecution cover-ups among the serious charges now being leveled by defense attorneys in two high profile criminal cases. It must be Kobe and Laci.
And Jeff Toobin is back with us here on AMERICAN MORNING to talk about both -- good morning to you.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning today.
HEMMER: Kobe Bryant first. His attorneys pointing a finger at the police. They say what the night of the alleged assault?
TOOBIN: They say that the investigation was so bad it suggests that there was actual bias at work against Kobe Bryant, although what they cite doesn't seem to me to be egregiously awful police work. They talk about things like well, the victim claims that she cried in the courtroom -- in the hotel room where the alleged assault took place, why didn't they check the carpet and the furniture for DNA from her tears? That's a pretty exotic use of DNA. That's the kind of criticisms they appear to be on.
HEMMER: They allege police closed their eyes, I think that was the quote.
TOOBIN: Right.
HEMMER: I'm not an attorney. I don't really want to be one. That's why you're here.
TOOBIN: Right.
HEMMER: Don't we hear these claims in high profile cases time and time again?
TOOBIN: And high profile cases have the resources to call experts to say that the police work was no good. In fact, one of the experts that the Kobe defense attorneys want to use testified for the defense in the O.J. Simpson case. These are kind of experts for hire who go around criticizing the police.
HEMMER: So you don't think it's that legit, do you? You don't think it's going to fly?
TOOBIN: I don't know if it's legit or not. It's certainly one argument that reasonable lawyers use and it's sometimes effective.
HEMMER: To the Laci Peterson matter. Mark Geragos, the attorney for Scott Peterson, is now arguing that the prosecution interviewed a witness who now says, or said perhaps many, many months ago, that he or she saw Laci Peterson being pulled into a van the day she showed up missing.
TOOBIN: I mean, it does have the potential to be a real bombshell in that case. If there is a credible witness who says that he saw Laci Peterson being pulled into a van the day she disappeared, I mean that's highly, highly significant. And what he's saying is the prosecution knew about her a long time ago but only interviewed her last week and then just told Geragos about her.
What we don't know is, is this person just some nut who, you know, was attracted by a high profile case? Or did the -- is this a credible witness who might help the defense.
HEMMER: So the theory goes Mark Geragos says she was abducted by someone other than her husband, Scott Peterson. They held her for possibly a month? Follow the theory a little later. That person finds out that Scott Peterson was fishing in the East Bay that day and that's when they went and dumped her body there.
TOOBIN: We're in the range of mystery novels, I admit.
HEMMER: We are.
TOOBIN: But, you know, the defense -- if you're a defense attorney and you think that there is someone who -- there's an evidence -- a witness out there who grabbed the victim, that's good evidence.
HEMMER: Opening arguments June 1, next Tuesday. Does that date stick?
TOOBIN: Who knows? I mean it'll probably be that week, if not June 1. It's a really slow moving case.
HEMMER: I think that answer is probably the most accurate, actually.
TOOBIN: Thank you.
HEMMER: Who knows?
TOOBIN: Exactly.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jeff.
TOOBIN: Thank you. My ignorance is accurate.
HEMMER: No, your ignorance is beautiful today.
TOOBIN: All right, thank you.
HEMMER: I want to get back to Miami and, again, our apologies to the police of chief -- police chief down there, John Timoney, back with us today on AMERICAN MORNING.
Chief, how about now? Can you hear me?
JOHN TIMONEY, MIAMI POLICE CHIEF: I can hear you fine, Bill.
HEMMER: Excellent.
You heard Secretary Ridge.
What is new about this threat that is going out today?
TIMONEY: Well, I met with federal officials last week and when you look at the information, a few things. One, it's coming from multiple sources regarding the same type of threat. And then when they plot it out, it actually, the chatter is much more active or more numerous than it was in the days leading up to 9/11, which is, of course, of concern.
Then there are other issues regarding whether there are cells already in the country. But clearly there are other cells that will make an attempt some time during the summer. When you combine that with the events coming up, the G8 summit, the two political conventions, the Greek Olympics, the next three or four months.
And then, of course, finally, there's a lot of chatter within the al Qaeda movement. The very, they take a lot of pride or take credit for the Madrid bombing and having an effect on that election. And clearly we have an election coming up in November and that's in their -- that's on their radar screen.
HEMMER: Chief, specifically for your community, though, you have a huge event this weekend, 300,000 expected at a major hip-hop event in southern Florida.
TIMONEY: Correct. Yes, correct.
HEMMER: Are you changing anything this weekend to stay safe?
TIMONEY: Well, there will be more police officers out all along Miami Beach. There's a concerted effort by the City of Miami, my department, Miami-Dade, Miami Beach. So there will be literally hundreds of police officers out there. And then any time you have a large gathering like this weekend, it provides an opportunity, if you will, for a terrorist to make some kind of a statement, you know, high body count symbolism.
And so, yes, we're much more cautious this year than last year. But, of course, then there are other big political events coming up during the summer.
HEMMER: Certainly.
TIMONEY: And so it should be a long summer.
HEMMER: Chief, if I could here, it's been two and a half years now since the events of 9/11 here in New York City.
TIMONEY: Yes, sure. Yes.
HEMMER: Conventional wisdom always wonders why has it not happened again.
How do you respond to that?
TIMONEY: Well, I think police departments, both at the local level and the federal level, are working much more effectively than they were prior to 9/11. That's good. It's not perfect yet. But we know for a fact in New York, for example, Ray Kelley has got a huge commitment in New York and we know for a fact that they've foiled at least two attempts -- one on the subway system; the second on the Brooklyn Bridge.
And so it's always very hard to measure what you're preventing. But we know for a fact, at least in New York, there are two. And then, of course, if you look at lax and some other instances, there have been some successes on the part of American law enforcement.
HEMMER: Chief, thanks.
John Timoney there, the Miami police chief.
TIMONEY: Thanks, Bill.
HEMMER: Thanks for hanging in, too.
Our apologizes again a few moments ago.
TIMONEY: That's quite all right.
HEMMER: Across the room now to Heidi Collins for a look at the other news making headlines today -- Heidi, good morning.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
Thanks so much, Bill.
U.S. forces may be one step closer to radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. They now have one of his key aides in custody after an overnight raid in Najaf. Shortly after the raids, military officials say there were ongoing clashes between American forces and militants loyal to al-Sadr. Officials in Najaf say at least 11 people were killed, dozens more wounded during the latest round of fighting.
The abuse of prisoners in U.S. custody may be even more widespread than the problems at Abu Ghraib near Baghdad. According to the "New York Times," an Army survey finds the abuse involves prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan, and is linked to more military units than previously thought. The paper says a few of the cases of detainee abuse date back to last April.
More turmoil in the Catholic Church today, as dozens of parishes around Boston are giving notice they'll be closing their doors. Sixty-five of the nearly 400 parishes will close as part of a massive restructuring. Of the 65, five churches will remain open as worship sites. The closings were brought on partly by sex abuse scandals and shrinking attendance, according to church officials.
In New Mexico now, state officials are looking to the sky above for help in fighting a fast moving wildfire there. The blaze has already consumed more than 23,000 acres. Federal funding has been promised to help battle the blaze. Several structures have been destroyed by the flames.
And in West Palm Beach, a 90-year-old Florida woman sports a cap and gown and proudly becomes a high school graduate. Uceba Babson left school 70 years ago to marry a vegetable farmer. Now, after eight children, 81 grandchildren and great grandchildren, the new graduate got a standing ovation, a bouquet of roses and a congratulatory letter from Governor Jeb Bush. She looked pretty good in that hat and gown, too.
O'BRIEN: How old is she, 90?
COLLINS: Ninety.
O'BRIEN: Wow.
HEMMER: Eighty-one grandchildren and great grandchildren?
COLLINS: Right. Combined. Yes.
HEMMER: Those vegetables work, don't they?
COLLINS: Yes, they probably do. Lots of broccoli there.
HEMMER: Thanks, Heidi.
O'BRIEN: Time to check in with Jack and the Question of the Day -- hi, Jack.
CAFFERTY: I just thought she was a slow learner. It took a long time to get through.
Bill Cosby made some blistering comments about the parenting skills and values of low income blacks in a couple of recent speeches. His comments included these: "We as black folks have to do a better job. Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us. We have to start holding each other to a higher standard."
And he said, "'Brown v. The Board of Education' is no longer the white person's problem."
The question is were those comments by Bill Cosby racist or right on?
James wrote this. He says: "I'm a white guy, but it seems to me that Bill Cosby is right on. This man is a prime example of a man who took responsibility for himself, his family, his career. He's entertained me for many years. I'm a big fan and I respect his comments."
Tom in Kingsland, Georgia writes: "Jack, he hit the nail on the head. Bill Cosby's remarks are not racist because he's black. If you had made those remarks, today would be your last day on CNN."
Wardell in Portsmouth, New Hampshire says: "Mr. Cosby needs to shut up. Obviously he's lived the good life too long and he's forgotten the hard road those in poverty have to walk and the social challenges that all black people face these days."
Edward in Tallahassee says: "Mr. Cosby is dead on. Now have a Jell-O pudding pop."
See, Cosby did (COMMERCIAL BREAK)s for Jell-O pudding.
O'BRIEN: Yes. I got it. Io got it.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.
See you later, buddy.
O'BRIEN: I got it. I got the joke.
HEMMER: We all did.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, summer nears along with heightened terror concerns. What intelligence led to the latest fears? We'll investigate that this morning.
HEMMER: Also in a moment, Ahmad Chalabi at the center of the storm that caused the U.S. to go to war with Iraq. That's what many claim now. We'll talk with a former CIA officer who worked with Chalabi. He makes that claim, in a moment.
O'BRIEN: Also, aspirin helps prevent at least two deadly diseases. Does it have still another life saving benefit? We'll look at that ahead.
AMERICAN MORNING is back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Tests have confirmed that a roadside bomb in Iraq did have sarin gas, a deadly nerve agent in it.
In an exclusive interview with CNN, the head of the search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq says he worries about Iraqi scientists with chemical weapons expertise possibly helping terrorists.
CIA official Charles Duelfer said his team has found only one sarin nerve gas shell and one mustard shell so far, and complained that the security situation has made the search extremely difficult.
Duelfer spoke exclusively with national security correspondent David Ensor -- David, good morning to you.
Give us more of that interview you did with him.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Soledad, Duelfer didn't want to go into the details, but he made clear he is really worried about Iraqi scientists helping the likes of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the al Qaeda affiliated terrorist who's believed responsible for many attacks in Iraq and elsewhere. After all, as you mentioned, they've now found a sarin nerve gas shell, and that was confirmed by lab tests in the U.S. yesterday.
Duelfer says his team are looking for more chemical shells in Iraq, but that the security situation makes the work very difficult, indeed.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHARLES DUELFER, CHIEF U.S. WEAPONS INSPECTOR IN IRAQ: The security situation really limits your ability to get out and get around and visit normal Iraqis. And given that I am an American who is known, I can't visit people that I normally would visit, because they become tainted, in a sense.
But, you know, in some ways it appears things are getting better for many, many people. There's commerce and so forth. And yet the security is not good. You know, not a night goes by where you don't hear gunfire and, you know, but, again, that's the perspective of an American. An average Iraqi might be somewhat different.
ENSOR: How dangerous is the work? Have you lost anybody from your team?
DUELFER: Well, sadly, we have. We had two, two people killed about three or four weeks ago.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: Duelfer says the scandal over the photos at Abu Ghraib over the abuse by Americans of Iraqi prisoners has made the work even more difficult. But he says the prisoners that he has met with, prisoners who are former high officials in the regime of Saddam Hussein, are being treated well.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DUELFER: Well, there's what are known as the high value detainees. These are the senior people who were, you know, on the deck of cards and those more senior ones are held in a very, a separate facility having nothing to do with Abu Ghraib. You know, the ICRC has visited them. You know, it is certainly my impression that they are treated properly. I've had meetings with them myself and I've heard no complaints, although I'm sure they would much rather be someplace else. It is a jail. It's a -- they are a separate population.
You know, and it's a very poignant experience for me to meet with them in a sense, because, you know, I've sat across conference tables from them for many years. And then to see them under these different circumstances and talk about, many times, the same issues. And it is still hard to determine whether they're speaking the truth or not. They're still wedded to a fiction, or if they are now telling the truth, it's just very difficult to tell.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: As for Saddam Hussein, Duelfer says his questioning is being directed by one person. Duelfer says he'd love to know what Saddam knows and they're still working on it -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: David, outside of the difficulty of the search, did Charles Duelfer speculate or go as far as to guess whether or not he thought more would be found, more sarin gas would be found?
ENSOR: He did say he didn't think there would be thousands of shells found. He didn't think that was likely. They are certainly looking for more shells and they don't rule out finding some. It seems likely given the number that have not been accounted for since after the Gulf War that some more will be found. And that is a concern. They're very worried about those falling into terrorist hands, because you could make a terrorist weapon out of those sarin gas shells that really would kill lots of people -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: David Ensor for us this morning.
David, thanks -- Bill.
HEMMER: In a moment here, an announcement due later today with names and pictures of terrorist suspects. Where are they? We'll look for an answer on that in a moment.
Also, how deep were Ahmad Chalabi's connections with Iran then and now? A former CIA officer answers that in a moment when we continue right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired May 26, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Some reporting says that there are multiple attacks that may occur in the next couple of months.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
What does the U.S. know about al Qaeda and possible plans for a major attack here in this country?
Has the U.S. found evidence of WMD -- an exclusive interview today with the chief weapons hunter in Iraq.
And where the water goes now -- the Midwest bracing now for more rising rivers on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
Welcome, everybody.
New concerns about terrorism topping our news today. Experts are saying that al Qaeda may have as many as 18,000 members worldwide and there are some in the U.S. looking for the possibility of an attack this summer. We're going to talk to one of those experts closely following al Qaeda's strength, Terence Taylor. That's in just a few moments.
HEMMER: Also, a few legal questions today. Jeff Toobin in a moment looking at the Scott Peterson matter. Another defense motion claiming the prosecution might have been breaking the rules. Is it enough to have the defense score points? Some are suggesting that the case will be thrown out. Whatever the case, we'll get to Jeff Toobin on that topic.
Also, Kobe Bryant matters in a moment, as well.
O'BRIEN: But first, let's get to Jack Cafferty and the question...
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Are you off tomorrow?
HEMMER: As a matter of fact, yes.
CAFFERTY: Nobody cares.
HEMMER: And Friday.
And what about you, Cafferty?
CAFFERTY: Yes, I'll be here.
HEMMER: Huh?
CAFFERTY: Soledad and I will be here trying to fill the huge void that exists when you're gone.
HEMMER: Don't call me.
CAFFERTY: Coming up in the Cafferty File today, things people have said that got our attention, including comments about a new rap star on the horizon named Hassle the Hoff. And also we're going to talk a little about that see-through dress that John Kerry's daughter wore at the Cannes Film Festival. And I mean it was see through. She might have as well have worn Saran Wrap.
O'BRIEN: Exactly.
CAFFERTY: Nothing, you know? I wonder what he thought about that.
O'BRIEN: Kerry himself?
CAFFERTY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: I think I thought...
CAFFERTY: I mean, you know, I've got...
O'BRIEN: ... honey, maybe next time a little thing underneath would be good.
HEMMER: You've got a few daughters.
CAFFERTY: I've got four daughters. If I saw a picture like that of one of them in a magazine...
O'BRIEN: Yes, very appealing.
CAFFERTY: ... I would have problems, you know what I'm saying? And she would have problems after I had problems.
HEMMER: That's the point.
O'BRIEN: That's what you're aiming for.
CAFFERTY: Yes. O'BRIEN: All right, that's what we were waiting for.
All right, Jack, thanks.
Looking forward to that.
The top story this morning, not only al Qaeda alive and well, there may be as many as 18,000 operatives in 60 countries at its disposal. That comes to us according to a report that's out today from the National Institute for Strategic Studies. The report also says the war in Iraq has helped al Qaeda's recruiting effort.
Terence Taylor is the head of the group's U.S. division.
He joins us from Washington this morning.
Nice to see you, sir.
Thanks for being with us.
TERENCE TAYLOR, INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR STRATEGIC STUDIES: Good morning.
O'BRIEN: Where do you get this 18,000 figure from?
TAYLOR: Well, this figure is derived from the figure of 20,000, which is generally recognized as being the number of people that went through the training camps in Afghanistan between around 1996 and 2000, prior to the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan. So these people have gone through that system and are out in the community. And as you said in your introduction, they're spread across 60 countries.
It doesn't mean that all 18,000 that might support al Qaeda are active terrorists. It doesn't mean that. But that's the potential reservoir from which al Qaeda like groups can draw recruits.
O'BRIEN: We've been talking a lot this morning about a possible attack this summer here in the U.S. by al Qaeda.
Based on what you know and the research you've done on this group, does that sound plausible to you?
TAYLOR: It certainly sounds plausible. What has been happening over the past two years or so is that the terrorist groups, which is a network of networks, if you like, some groups acting on their own initiative, have been carrying out attacks against opportunity targets, with the exception of Madrid in Spain. They've been against targets in Turkey, for example; in Morocco; in Bali in Indonesia; where targets of opportunity show up.
But, of course, the overall strategic objective is an attack on major Western powers and their interests, of course, in the Islamic world.
O'BRIEN: You say that the structure has changed. One thing that has changed in recent years in al Qaeda is that the structure has changed. It's no longer hierarchical. It's no longer financially backed, necessarily, from the center.
What's the import and the impact of those changes?
TAYLOR: Well, on the one hand, it makes it a little bit more difficult for the al Qaeda groups to mount a highly coordinated, highly sophisticated attack, although that can't be ruled out. So we have a very flat structure across 60 countries, as we've already said, which can operate independently. There is strategic direction, very general strategic direction from the center, probably from Osama bin Laden himself and his close lieutenants.
So it's a very much more difficult target for intelligence agencies, for example, for them to track them down. There are no clear territorial bases, for example.
O'BRIEN: A moment ago, you talked about strikes of opportunity.
Has the war in Iraq, do you think, created more terrorists just sheerly because more opportunity -- American soldiers in Iraq -- has been created?
TAYLOR: Well, certainly the Iraq military invasion and the subsequent events have provided what al Qaeda sympathizers view as an opportunity target. And certainly as the Institute's report points out, there are maybe up to 1,000 al Qaeda sympathizers operating in Iraq. So in some senses, the U.S. and its allies are presenting a form of target there, a place where they can attack directly coalition forces.
O'BRIEN: Terence Taylor with the International Institute for Strategic Studies, joining us this morning.
Nice to see you, sir, as always.
Thanks for being with us.
TAYLOR: It's my pleasure.
O'BRIEN: Bill.
HEMMER: About six minutes past the hour now.
To other news about this terror alert warning. The attorney general later today, John Ashcroft; the FBI director, Robert Mueller; they will hold a news conference later today, no doubt taking questions about the latest intelligence information suggesting that terrorists might be planning a major attack here in the U.S. some time this summer.
Last hour on "American Morning," I talked with Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge about whether or not that terror alert will change before this weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RIDGE: There is absolutely nothing specific enough or that rises to the level where we would presently today, as we speak, make a recommendation to the president to raise the threat level. What I think it's important for America to know is that we don't need to raise the threat level in order to continue to work every day to improve security.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Secretary Ridge from last hour.
Still, though, major U.S. cities are on notice. So, too, in Miami, Florida we find that to be the case. The police chief, John Timoney, back with us here on AMERICAN MORNING.
Chief, good morning to you.
(AUDIO GAP)
HEMMER: If you can hear me, sir? I can't hear you, so I'll try it again here.
Good morning to you.
(AUDIO GAP)
HEMMER: All right, that's going to be a bit of an issue today.
Hang on one second there and I'll try and get this figured out here.
In the meantime, let me try and pose this question and perhaps we can pick up your microphone.
Tom Ridge last hour said the terror alert level does not change. He also said the intelligence they're working on today was culled together over the past six to eight weeks.
If that's the case, then, how real is the threat, Chief?
(AUDIO GAP)
HEMMER: A swing and a miss.
Our apologies to our viewers and especially to the chief down there in Miami, Florida, John Timoney.
If we get it worked out, we'll get you back there in Miami in a moment.
To other news and Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Yes, all right, let's get to that as soon as we get to this story first.
We've been covering what's going on in Illinois. No relief yet from the floodwaters there brought by severe Midwestern storms. River levels in some areas are still rising and more evacuations may be necessary. The town of Des Plaines is expecting the very worst tonight.
So how are the residents coping?
Lisa Wodek is a homeowner in Des Plaines and she joins us this morning.
Lisa, nice to see you.
Thanks for being with us.
And give me a sense of how you're doing, considering the really bad couple of days you guys have had there.
LISA WODEK, DES PLAINES, ILLINOIS: Well, good morning.
We're coping very well, actually. We've prepared our house. We've sandbagged. We've gotten extra pumps brought in to help us if the basement does flood. And, you know, we've been just -- now we're just waiting.
O'BRIEN: I see you sitting out by the river. How close is your house to this river? I mean what are we talking about the likelihood that you're going to have some major flooding in the next 24 hours?
WODEK: You know, like I said, we're just waiting to see. If it comes up, you know, as predicted, a couple more feet, it could be close to my house.
O'BRIEN: We've seen some pictures of some serious damage in your area.
Describe for me what you have seen among some of your neighbors' homes.
WODEK: There is a house that the garage is underwater and his basement has gotten some water. Right now the rest of us are just bracing for the river to rise and we're waiting to see what's going to happen.
O'BRIEN: Are you camped out in your home? Is that the strategy? Or have you been evacuated and you're just going to sort of cross your fingers and do it from a location where you aren't going to be at risk?
WODEK: We're still in our homes. Like I said, right now we're OK. They have set up shelters for us in the city of Des Plaines. They've done a lot of work to help us out. The city has been just great. Sandbags, they've provided a lot of, you know, the Salvation Army has been out here providing us with food and water. And like I said, we're just waiting right now.
O'BRIEN: The community, how have they been holding together, because I've covered a lot of floods and I know that filling those sandbags is not an easy task. It's a ton of work for a lot of people to make any real dent in covering a house.
How has that been?
WODEK: It's been great. Our street, you know, we've all banded together. We've gotten our friends and family. I mean everybody has just been fantastic. Everybody is calling to offer help. We've had the -- the city has provided all their workers to come out and help us and we've even had some extra help from just volunteers, people driving down the street offering to help. They don't even live around here and they're just -- the outpouring of help has just been fantastic.
O'BRIEN: Well, I'm glad to hear that. We're going to keep our fingers crossed for you, as well, that you have very little damage in the next 24 hours as some things are supposed to get a little bit worse.
Lisa Wodek, a homeowner in Des Plaines, joining us this morning.
Good luck to you and your family, as well.
WODEK: Thank you very much.
O'BRIEN: You're welcome -- Bill.
HEMMER: About 10 minutes past the hour now.
Shoddy police work, prosecution cover-ups among the serious charges now being leveled by defense attorneys in two high profile criminal cases. It must be Kobe and Laci.
And Jeff Toobin is back with us here on AMERICAN MORNING to talk about both -- good morning to you.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning today.
HEMMER: Kobe Bryant first. His attorneys pointing a finger at the police. They say what the night of the alleged assault?
TOOBIN: They say that the investigation was so bad it suggests that there was actual bias at work against Kobe Bryant, although what they cite doesn't seem to me to be egregiously awful police work. They talk about things like well, the victim claims that she cried in the courtroom -- in the hotel room where the alleged assault took place, why didn't they check the carpet and the furniture for DNA from her tears? That's a pretty exotic use of DNA. That's the kind of criticisms they appear to be on.
HEMMER: They allege police closed their eyes, I think that was the quote.
TOOBIN: Right.
HEMMER: I'm not an attorney. I don't really want to be one. That's why you're here.
TOOBIN: Right.
HEMMER: Don't we hear these claims in high profile cases time and time again?
TOOBIN: And high profile cases have the resources to call experts to say that the police work was no good. In fact, one of the experts that the Kobe defense attorneys want to use testified for the defense in the O.J. Simpson case. These are kind of experts for hire who go around criticizing the police.
HEMMER: So you don't think it's that legit, do you? You don't think it's going to fly?
TOOBIN: I don't know if it's legit or not. It's certainly one argument that reasonable lawyers use and it's sometimes effective.
HEMMER: To the Laci Peterson matter. Mark Geragos, the attorney for Scott Peterson, is now arguing that the prosecution interviewed a witness who now says, or said perhaps many, many months ago, that he or she saw Laci Peterson being pulled into a van the day she showed up missing.
TOOBIN: I mean, it does have the potential to be a real bombshell in that case. If there is a credible witness who says that he saw Laci Peterson being pulled into a van the day she disappeared, I mean that's highly, highly significant. And what he's saying is the prosecution knew about her a long time ago but only interviewed her last week and then just told Geragos about her.
What we don't know is, is this person just some nut who, you know, was attracted by a high profile case? Or did the -- is this a credible witness who might help the defense.
HEMMER: So the theory goes Mark Geragos says she was abducted by someone other than her husband, Scott Peterson. They held her for possibly a month? Follow the theory a little later. That person finds out that Scott Peterson was fishing in the East Bay that day and that's when they went and dumped her body there.
TOOBIN: We're in the range of mystery novels, I admit.
HEMMER: We are.
TOOBIN: But, you know, the defense -- if you're a defense attorney and you think that there is someone who -- there's an evidence -- a witness out there who grabbed the victim, that's good evidence.
HEMMER: Opening arguments June 1, next Tuesday. Does that date stick?
TOOBIN: Who knows? I mean it'll probably be that week, if not June 1. It's a really slow moving case.
HEMMER: I think that answer is probably the most accurate, actually.
TOOBIN: Thank you.
HEMMER: Who knows?
TOOBIN: Exactly.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jeff.
TOOBIN: Thank you. My ignorance is accurate.
HEMMER: No, your ignorance is beautiful today.
TOOBIN: All right, thank you.
HEMMER: I want to get back to Miami and, again, our apologies to the police of chief -- police chief down there, John Timoney, back with us today on AMERICAN MORNING.
Chief, how about now? Can you hear me?
JOHN TIMONEY, MIAMI POLICE CHIEF: I can hear you fine, Bill.
HEMMER: Excellent.
You heard Secretary Ridge.
What is new about this threat that is going out today?
TIMONEY: Well, I met with federal officials last week and when you look at the information, a few things. One, it's coming from multiple sources regarding the same type of threat. And then when they plot it out, it actually, the chatter is much more active or more numerous than it was in the days leading up to 9/11, which is, of course, of concern.
Then there are other issues regarding whether there are cells already in the country. But clearly there are other cells that will make an attempt some time during the summer. When you combine that with the events coming up, the G8 summit, the two political conventions, the Greek Olympics, the next three or four months.
And then, of course, finally, there's a lot of chatter within the al Qaeda movement. The very, they take a lot of pride or take credit for the Madrid bombing and having an effect on that election. And clearly we have an election coming up in November and that's in their -- that's on their radar screen.
HEMMER: Chief, specifically for your community, though, you have a huge event this weekend, 300,000 expected at a major hip-hop event in southern Florida.
TIMONEY: Correct. Yes, correct.
HEMMER: Are you changing anything this weekend to stay safe?
TIMONEY: Well, there will be more police officers out all along Miami Beach. There's a concerted effort by the City of Miami, my department, Miami-Dade, Miami Beach. So there will be literally hundreds of police officers out there. And then any time you have a large gathering like this weekend, it provides an opportunity, if you will, for a terrorist to make some kind of a statement, you know, high body count symbolism.
And so, yes, we're much more cautious this year than last year. But, of course, then there are other big political events coming up during the summer.
HEMMER: Certainly.
TIMONEY: And so it should be a long summer.
HEMMER: Chief, if I could here, it's been two and a half years now since the events of 9/11 here in New York City.
TIMONEY: Yes, sure. Yes.
HEMMER: Conventional wisdom always wonders why has it not happened again.
How do you respond to that?
TIMONEY: Well, I think police departments, both at the local level and the federal level, are working much more effectively than they were prior to 9/11. That's good. It's not perfect yet. But we know for a fact in New York, for example, Ray Kelley has got a huge commitment in New York and we know for a fact that they've foiled at least two attempts -- one on the subway system; the second on the Brooklyn Bridge.
And so it's always very hard to measure what you're preventing. But we know for a fact, at least in New York, there are two. And then, of course, if you look at lax and some other instances, there have been some successes on the part of American law enforcement.
HEMMER: Chief, thanks.
John Timoney there, the Miami police chief.
TIMONEY: Thanks, Bill.
HEMMER: Thanks for hanging in, too.
Our apologizes again a few moments ago.
TIMONEY: That's quite all right.
HEMMER: Across the room now to Heidi Collins for a look at the other news making headlines today -- Heidi, good morning.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
Thanks so much, Bill.
U.S. forces may be one step closer to radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. They now have one of his key aides in custody after an overnight raid in Najaf. Shortly after the raids, military officials say there were ongoing clashes between American forces and militants loyal to al-Sadr. Officials in Najaf say at least 11 people were killed, dozens more wounded during the latest round of fighting.
The abuse of prisoners in U.S. custody may be even more widespread than the problems at Abu Ghraib near Baghdad. According to the "New York Times," an Army survey finds the abuse involves prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan, and is linked to more military units than previously thought. The paper says a few of the cases of detainee abuse date back to last April.
More turmoil in the Catholic Church today, as dozens of parishes around Boston are giving notice they'll be closing their doors. Sixty-five of the nearly 400 parishes will close as part of a massive restructuring. Of the 65, five churches will remain open as worship sites. The closings were brought on partly by sex abuse scandals and shrinking attendance, according to church officials.
In New Mexico now, state officials are looking to the sky above for help in fighting a fast moving wildfire there. The blaze has already consumed more than 23,000 acres. Federal funding has been promised to help battle the blaze. Several structures have been destroyed by the flames.
And in West Palm Beach, a 90-year-old Florida woman sports a cap and gown and proudly becomes a high school graduate. Uceba Babson left school 70 years ago to marry a vegetable farmer. Now, after eight children, 81 grandchildren and great grandchildren, the new graduate got a standing ovation, a bouquet of roses and a congratulatory letter from Governor Jeb Bush. She looked pretty good in that hat and gown, too.
O'BRIEN: How old is she, 90?
COLLINS: Ninety.
O'BRIEN: Wow.
HEMMER: Eighty-one grandchildren and great grandchildren?
COLLINS: Right. Combined. Yes.
HEMMER: Those vegetables work, don't they?
COLLINS: Yes, they probably do. Lots of broccoli there.
HEMMER: Thanks, Heidi.
O'BRIEN: Time to check in with Jack and the Question of the Day -- hi, Jack.
CAFFERTY: I just thought she was a slow learner. It took a long time to get through.
Bill Cosby made some blistering comments about the parenting skills and values of low income blacks in a couple of recent speeches. His comments included these: "We as black folks have to do a better job. Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us. We have to start holding each other to a higher standard."
And he said, "'Brown v. The Board of Education' is no longer the white person's problem."
The question is were those comments by Bill Cosby racist or right on?
James wrote this. He says: "I'm a white guy, but it seems to me that Bill Cosby is right on. This man is a prime example of a man who took responsibility for himself, his family, his career. He's entertained me for many years. I'm a big fan and I respect his comments."
Tom in Kingsland, Georgia writes: "Jack, he hit the nail on the head. Bill Cosby's remarks are not racist because he's black. If you had made those remarks, today would be your last day on CNN."
Wardell in Portsmouth, New Hampshire says: "Mr. Cosby needs to shut up. Obviously he's lived the good life too long and he's forgotten the hard road those in poverty have to walk and the social challenges that all black people face these days."
Edward in Tallahassee says: "Mr. Cosby is dead on. Now have a Jell-O pudding pop."
See, Cosby did (COMMERCIAL BREAK)s for Jell-O pudding.
O'BRIEN: Yes. I got it. Io got it.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.
See you later, buddy.
O'BRIEN: I got it. I got the joke.
HEMMER: We all did.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, summer nears along with heightened terror concerns. What intelligence led to the latest fears? We'll investigate that this morning.
HEMMER: Also in a moment, Ahmad Chalabi at the center of the storm that caused the U.S. to go to war with Iraq. That's what many claim now. We'll talk with a former CIA officer who worked with Chalabi. He makes that claim, in a moment.
O'BRIEN: Also, aspirin helps prevent at least two deadly diseases. Does it have still another life saving benefit? We'll look at that ahead.
AMERICAN MORNING is back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Tests have confirmed that a roadside bomb in Iraq did have sarin gas, a deadly nerve agent in it.
In an exclusive interview with CNN, the head of the search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq says he worries about Iraqi scientists with chemical weapons expertise possibly helping terrorists.
CIA official Charles Duelfer said his team has found only one sarin nerve gas shell and one mustard shell so far, and complained that the security situation has made the search extremely difficult.
Duelfer spoke exclusively with national security correspondent David Ensor -- David, good morning to you.
Give us more of that interview you did with him.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Soledad, Duelfer didn't want to go into the details, but he made clear he is really worried about Iraqi scientists helping the likes of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the al Qaeda affiliated terrorist who's believed responsible for many attacks in Iraq and elsewhere. After all, as you mentioned, they've now found a sarin nerve gas shell, and that was confirmed by lab tests in the U.S. yesterday.
Duelfer says his team are looking for more chemical shells in Iraq, but that the security situation makes the work very difficult, indeed.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHARLES DUELFER, CHIEF U.S. WEAPONS INSPECTOR IN IRAQ: The security situation really limits your ability to get out and get around and visit normal Iraqis. And given that I am an American who is known, I can't visit people that I normally would visit, because they become tainted, in a sense.
But, you know, in some ways it appears things are getting better for many, many people. There's commerce and so forth. And yet the security is not good. You know, not a night goes by where you don't hear gunfire and, you know, but, again, that's the perspective of an American. An average Iraqi might be somewhat different.
ENSOR: How dangerous is the work? Have you lost anybody from your team?
DUELFER: Well, sadly, we have. We had two, two people killed about three or four weeks ago.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: Duelfer says the scandal over the photos at Abu Ghraib over the abuse by Americans of Iraqi prisoners has made the work even more difficult. But he says the prisoners that he has met with, prisoners who are former high officials in the regime of Saddam Hussein, are being treated well.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DUELFER: Well, there's what are known as the high value detainees. These are the senior people who were, you know, on the deck of cards and those more senior ones are held in a very, a separate facility having nothing to do with Abu Ghraib. You know, the ICRC has visited them. You know, it is certainly my impression that they are treated properly. I've had meetings with them myself and I've heard no complaints, although I'm sure they would much rather be someplace else. It is a jail. It's a -- they are a separate population.
You know, and it's a very poignant experience for me to meet with them in a sense, because, you know, I've sat across conference tables from them for many years. And then to see them under these different circumstances and talk about, many times, the same issues. And it is still hard to determine whether they're speaking the truth or not. They're still wedded to a fiction, or if they are now telling the truth, it's just very difficult to tell.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: As for Saddam Hussein, Duelfer says his questioning is being directed by one person. Duelfer says he'd love to know what Saddam knows and they're still working on it -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: David, outside of the difficulty of the search, did Charles Duelfer speculate or go as far as to guess whether or not he thought more would be found, more sarin gas would be found?
ENSOR: He did say he didn't think there would be thousands of shells found. He didn't think that was likely. They are certainly looking for more shells and they don't rule out finding some. It seems likely given the number that have not been accounted for since after the Gulf War that some more will be found. And that is a concern. They're very worried about those falling into terrorist hands, because you could make a terrorist weapon out of those sarin gas shells that really would kill lots of people -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: David Ensor for us this morning.
David, thanks -- Bill.
HEMMER: In a moment here, an announcement due later today with names and pictures of terrorist suspects. Where are they? We'll look for an answer on that in a moment.
Also, how deep were Ahmad Chalabi's connections with Iran then and now? A former CIA officer answers that in a moment when we continue right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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