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American Morning
Delay the Vote?; Abu Ghraib Prison Abuse Scandal
Aired July 12, 2004 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to talk with a journalist who has seen it all.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: And then "90-Second Pop" is coming up. Courtney Love, a topic of conversation this weekend after giving everyone plenty to talk about -- handcuffed, taken to a hospital. It just gets worse and worse for her. All in all, a really bad weekend for her. We'll talk about that in "90-Second Pop."
COLLINS: First though, White House officials have discussed the possibility of postponing this year's general election in the event of a terrorist attack. But implementing such a delay could be a logistical nightmare.
Here now is Tom Foreman in Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If a terrorist attack came in the final days of the campaign or on Election Day itself, could the voting be postponed? That question is being raised by the U.S. Election Assistance Commission and taken up by Homeland Security and the Justice Department, too.
GRACIA HILLMAN, U.S. ELECTION ASSISTANCE COMMISSION: I think that we've been lucky so far that nothing has ever occurred to disrupt the presidential election, but that doesn't mean that something couldn't happen. And we believe prudent planning is the thing that should be done.
FOREMAN: These government officials are mindful of the Spanish train attack, which killed nearly 200 people. Three days later, Spain's prime minister, who supported the war in Iraq, was voted out. Now officials say intelligence suggests something like that could happen here.
TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Al Qaeda is moving forward with its plans to carry out a large-scale attack in the United States in an effort to disrupt our democratic process.
FOREMAN: The political fallout from such an attack is wildly uncertain. After 9/11, support for President Bush rose.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I can hear you.
FOREMAN: It is also unclear whether the election can be moved. Homeland Security says, "It would take an act of Congress to amend the Constitution, possibly amendments to 50 state constitutions." And maybe changes to "voting rules in thousands of counties and towns."
(on camera): In other words, federal officials see the possibility of delaying the election as very remote. And some lawmakers are calling it a pure doomsday scenario.
SEN. JAY ROCKEFELLER (D), NEW YORK: It'd be a terrible mistake, a terrible mistake.
FOREMAN (voice over): Others believe developing a plan may be wise if it sends a message.
REP. CHRIS COX (R-CA), HOMELAND SECURITY CHAIRMAN: No matter what happens, no matter what terrorists do to our country, democracy is going to go on.
FOREMAN: Yet in the end, even those who support a plan for delaying the election say it's something they want to have and never have to use.
Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: The Election Assistance Commission which put forth the idea of a delay vote was created after the disputed 2000 election to help deal -- help states deal, that is, with logistical problems in their elections.
COOPER: Along with the beating and humiliating of Iraqi prisoners, the Army's report of Abu Ghraib Prison includes details of riots, escapes, shootings, bug-infested food and filthy living conditions for the prisoners and for the soldiers. "U.S. News & World Report" has gotten hold of the classified portions of the report. A story is in the latest issue of the magazine.
Edward Pound co-reported it, and he joins us now from Washington.
Edward, thanks for being with us.
EDWARD POUND, "U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT": Thank you.
COOPER: You have read all of the 106 classified annexes to the published Taguba report. What surprised you most?
POUND: Well, I think the utter chaos of the place is the overwhelming thing that comes through in this report. As you said in your introduction, you had a very chaotic situation there with the threat of riots. You had guns being smuggled into the prisons, knives. You had problems with force protection outside the prison. You had severe food problems for the prisoners. You had soldiers worried about their safety all the time.
COOPER: And as these reports sort of filtered up the chain of command, I mean, there were e-mails back and forth about the food, for instance.
POUND: Yes.
COOPER: There seemed to be a certain level of disregard or disbelief in some of the upper levels of the command.
POUND: Well, I think what happened was there was an exchange of e-mails between a major and another soldier from the 800th -- an officer from the 800th MP Brigade. And that officer in the 800th Brigade just didn't believe it. And...
COOPER: And tell us what they were saying in that e-mail. I mean, it was about the food and what they were finding in it.
POUND: Well, basically, Anderson, what he was saying is that they were being shorted on the food for the prisoners and that there was bugs, dirt and dirt in the food.
COOPER: Also pieces of rat, I guess, he said...
POUND: Yes, that's correct.
COOPER: Yes, it was pretty amazing. Also, the wording...
POUND: According to the e-mail.
COOPER: According to that e-mail. The warden who was appointed had never actually even been inside a prison before.
POUND: Yes, that's pretty incredible. The warden of the hard side prison or the cell blocks where they kept the people who were going to be interrogated had never been a warden, never been inside a prison before, and by his own account was ill-prepared to do the job. And he was -- when he came there, he saw all of these naked detainees or prisoners within the hard side. And when he asked about it, he was told by the military intelligence people who were running the interrogations that this was a common interrogation practice.
COOPER: And he sort of took that at face value and just said, OK, and really never addressed it again.
An Air Force psychiatrist who looked at the conditions inside called it a new psychological battlefield. What did he mean?
POUND: Well, he just meant that, again, that there was utter chaos. Dr. Nelson, an Air Force psychiatrist, laid it out pretty bluntly. He said that everyone who was at Abu Ghraib, the prisoners and soldiers alike, were in true danger, is the way he put it, and that the conditions were such that it was just a very chaotic and terrible situation for everybody to be in.
COOPER: Still a lot to be done on this. Edward Pound from "U.S. News & World Report," it's a fascinating article. Thanks for being with us.
POUND: You're welcome.
COLLINS: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, things get hairy in NASCAR. There was more than drama in the pit than there was on the track. We're going to have a look at that coming up.
COOPER: Yikes! Plus, in "90-Second Pop," Courtney Love probably didn't wish to end up in cuffs for her birthday. That is where she ended up anyway. Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(WEATHER BREAK)
COLLINS: Meanwhile, Jack is here. Lots of e-mails, I guess.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: How are you doing? Yes.
What's the issue that's going to turn this election? There is the war. There is the economy. There is health care. The Senate this week is debating the issue of gay marriage. Bush wants a constitutional amendment.
So, we thought we'd try and narrow this thing down and see what's going to eventually decide the outcome.
Carmen in Brooklyn, New York: "The economy and the war in Iraq are important issues in this election. However, when you have a family to support and your income is not enough to make ends meet, guess which is more important?"
Mel in New York: "The biggest issue in this election more than any other in recent memory will be to get a substantial majority of the eligible voters actually to vote. The 2000 election was a great bad example of what happens when people stay away from the polls."
Timothy in Minneapolis: "So, a new DCI can wait until after the November elections, but the constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage is getting the conservative fast track. Can we assume that gay marriage poses a greater threat to national security than the lack of a confirmed head of the nation's Central Intelligence Agency?"
Who knew?
Vicki in Boyertown, Pennsylvania: "If Bush gets or keeps the country scared enough, he wins."
And Kirk and Little Falls, Minnesota: "Come on, Jack. I worked in radio and television news in the late '70s and early '80s, and I thought "Anchorman" was hilarious. At our Minnesota theater where we admittedly only paid $4 to see the thing, we laughed ourselves silly. Hell, I knew Ron Burgundy." Kirk writes that from Little Falls.
If I had only paid $4, I might have thought it was funny.
COOPER: I think that maybe is the difference.
COLLINS: Yes, that's it.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
COOPER: Yes, for $4...
CAFFERTY: For $4, it's moderately funny. For nine bucks it's terrible. It's just an awful movie. Anyway...
COOPER: How do you really feel, Jack?
CAFFERTY: Bruce said, when was the last time you went to the movies? Was it "Network?" I don't go to a lot of movies.
COLLINS: That was a while ago, yes.
CAFFERTY: Keep it up and you'll be working "360" at night on Anderson Cooper's show.
COLLINS: You might like that.
CAFFERTY: It would probably be an improvement.
COLLINS: Yes.
COOPER: Still to come this morning, there was a shooting in broad daylight in Jersey City over the weekend and nobody seemed to mind. Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: It is 45 minutes past the hour. Time for a look at some of today's other news with Daryn Kagan.
Good morning -- Daryn.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you once again, Anderson.
Assurances this morning that a Filipino hostage held in Iraq is still alive. Iraqi insurgents are threatening to kill the truck driver unless that country's government pulls its troops from Iraq. Insurgents had imposed a Sunday deadline, but an official in Manila says the deadline has been extended, while Iraqi officials say talks are ongoing.
The final report from the 9/11 Commission is expected to be completed at the end of this week. According to a spokesman, the panel has already started the process of having it declassified for release later this month. The 10 members of the bipartisan commission are trying to reach unanimous support for the final document.
Gassing up the car will cost you slightly less, according to a new survey. Prices at the pump are down slightly, more than a penny over the last two weeks. The national average for a gallon of self- serve regular now, $1.93. The decrease in the price has slowed somewhat because the price of crude oil rose last week.
And exactly 200 years to this date, descendants of Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr re-enacted their ancestors' dual yesterday with replica pistols and in period costumes. More than 1,000 people attended that event. It took place in New Jersey.
And from the world for sports in racing, Tony Stewart's Tropicana 400 win was slightly marred after a wreck with Kasey Kahne. This wreck triggered a fight with the pit crews. Watch out. Things did get back under control. Stewart dominated the race, leading 160 of the 267 laps. It was his first win since October. Gear heads out there know, Anderson, that Tony Stewart is kind of the bad boy of NASCAR. He's been fined over $100,000 over the last six years. But he says this wreck was just an accident.
COOPER: Interesting.
KAGAN: Yes, don't blame him for being beautiful basically.
COOPER: Oh, is that what it is? Don't hate me. All right. Daryn Kagan, thanks very much.
We're joined now by the bad boy of news, Andy Serwer.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Yes.
COOPER: Business news that is.
SERWER: Thank you. I'll keep that. I'll keep that.
COOPER: So, wait. So, what's going on with the bar code?
SERWER: Well, it's black and white and soon to be red all over.
(CROSSTALK)
SERWER: Yes, also -- yes, the bad jokester of business news, Andy Serwer.
The bar code turned 30 last month, Anderson. And interestingly -- yes, interestingly -- there are two different standards for the bar code. There is the U.S. standard and there is the European standard. And...
COOPER: You don't need to tell me that.
SERWER: Yes, well, of course, you knew that. And, of course, as so often happens in these sorts of standardization things, you know, something has to got to give.
COOPER: Right.
SERWER: Because there are goods that fly back and forth all over the place. And guess what? The Europeans are going to win this one. So, starting...
COOPER: America is giving up the bar codes?
SERWER: Yes. Well, no, we're going to give up...
COOPER: Their version? SERWER: Our version has 12 numbers. There are the digits below the bars. Theirs have 13. So, we're going to go to the 13 system.
COLLINS: And this will get...
COOPER: Is there not any great uproar about this?
SERWER: There is a great -- well, the uproar is starting right here right now on AMERICAN MORNING. We're ticked.
COOPER: You're (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
SERWER: Yes, we're really, really upset about this. No, we're not. We don't really care as long as the goods flow across the cash registers, then fine. But there is -- you know, they may not. You know, they're saying this could be the next Y2K. Well, that wasn't really a problem, though, was it?
COLLINS: Oh, no, that was fine.
SERWER: OK.
COOPER: If I hear one more thing about Y2K, that was the biggest...
SERWER: Well, that was so long ago. OK, so get ready for the bar code conundrum coming January 1. The first thing to be scanned by the bar code, of course, was a pack of Juicy Fruit in June of 1974 in Troy, Ohio.
COOPER: Wow! How do you know that?
SERWER: I just...
COOPER: Because you're the bad boy of business news.
SERWER: That's it. I'm the bad boy of business news.
COOPER: And what about the markets?
SERWER: Let's do a quickie on that. I did say last week it was a kind of a rough one, not -- even though Friday was up a little bit. You can here. But still, we were down for the week.
And Merrill Lynch downgrading tech stocks this morning. So, it looks like we're going to have a weaker open. People are starting to rumble on Wall Street, just how strong is this recovery?
COOPER: Interesting.
SERWER: Interesting stuff.
COOPER: All right, Andy, thanks very much.
SERWER: You're welcome. COOPER: One programming note. Tonight on "LARRY KING LIVE," indicted Enron chief Ken Lay will do his first primetime interview. That is tonight at 9:00 Eastern.
COLLINS: And still to come this morning, some "90-Second Pop" to start your week. Heart problems sideline David Bowie. Is it time to start thinking retirement? Our panel takes up the question ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: I think I have just successfully offended the entire pop panel.
TOURE, "ROLLING STONE" MAGAZINE: The whole crew.
COLLINS: Oh, goodness. And in case you didn't know, it is time for "90-Second Pop" this Monday morning, we think. We have rounded up our usual suspects today. Toure, contributing editor for "Rolling Stone."
Hello, Toure.
TOURE: How are you?
COLLINS: "New York" magazine correcting editor Sarah Bernard. As always very lovely. And Andy Borowitz, the creative genius behind BorowitzReport.com.
SARAH BERNARD, "NEW YORK" MAGAZINE: Wow! What an honor to be in your presence.
TOURE: Wow!
ANDY BOROWITZ, HUMORIST: My agent is doing his work.
COLLINS: OK, Sarah, let's start with you. Courtney, what is going on?
BERNARD: I know.
COLLINS: This is not the best way to spend your 40th birthday.
BERNARD: A (UNINTELLIGIBLE) birthday.
COLLINS: Handcuffs, hospital, my goodness.
TOURE: Well...
BERNARD: Well, see, now, Courtney, we know that she's been having some unusual behavior going on. Apparently she was throwing bottles out the window of her Soho apartment. She was wandering the streets, kind of mumbling to herself, trying to bum cigarettes from strangers. And I think what happened is she has like the old rock star manual, which says that you have to be, you know, possibly on drugs, kind of getting yourself in the news for erratic, crazy behavior. And the new pop star manual is get married...
TOURE: As much as possible.
BERNARD: ... have a baby, move to the suburbs...
BOROWITZ: Convert to Judaism.
BERNARD: ... convert to kabala and all of that. So, she's just on the wrong...
TOURE: Rookie, rookie.
BERNARD: She's just on the wrong end. I mean, it is really sad, we have to say.
TOURE: Yes.
BERNARD: We don't want to make light of it.
BOROWITZ: I'm devastated.
BERNARD: And we're worried about Frances Bean. That's what we were talking about.
TOURE: Yes, yes.
BERNARD: You know, her daughter with Kurt Cobain.
BOROWITZ: You know what? What I liked about it is, you know, so many people when they turn 40 they, you know, make such a big deal out of it. And she decided to treat it just like any other day, which I think is great. I mean, I think that's hilarious.
BERNARD: Thirty-nine, 40, what's the difference?
BOROWITZ: It's the old bottle out the window, get carried away in handcuffs. It's good.
COLLINS: Toure, what's happening with her? Is she trying to get attention or it's that she's out of control?
TOURE: No, I don't look at it as a publicity maneuver. I mean, it's a very sad situation. I mean, for 10 years she's been dealing with the loss of Kurt, you know, various ups and downs in her career. The Frances Bean situation, she just recently -- I mean, she I don't know...
BERNARD: She lost custody.
TOURE: She lost custody.
COLLINS: Right.
TOURE: I mean, can you imagine? I mean, can you imagine what that does to a woman, like to lose custody of your baby?
COLLINS: No.
BERNARD: It causes you to throw bottles out of windows.
BOROWITZ: She was also apparently a little upset that Larry King spent a whole hour with Barbara Eden and not her. So, I think that (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
BERNARD: Maybe you can do something about that.
COLLINS: Let's talk David Bowie, you guys. Also some more hospital talk here. Heart surgery, emergency heart surgery actually, in L.A. last week. He's 57. Is it time for Ziggy to play guitar here or what?
BERNARD: Oh!
BOROWITZ: Oh, no, no, no. Ziggy actually now refers to his EKG. But, you know, I think, you know, 57, he is still in the prime of his career. You know, Jethro Tull is still rocking out. They're in their 80s. I think there is no reason why he should hang it up. I mean, the only thing I feel about it is that -- and I don't want to step on Dr. Sanjay Gupta's territory here.
COLLINS: No, no.
BOROWITZ: But as we age, as rock stars age, it's really important to avoid strenuous activities. For example, instead of like trashing your hotel room, maybe as you check out just tear up the bill, you know, something like that.
COLLINS: Right.
BERNARD: Steal some soap.
BOROWITZ: Yes, steal some soap and maybe some of the toiletries, but really just take it nice and easy. He has to worry about the ticker.
BERNARD: You know, I saw him in concert last year, and he looks fantastic.
BOROWITZ: He does.
BERNARD: He looks better than he ever has. And obviously he's been healthy for a while and clean. But he has said that there are entire periods of his life that he has no memory of.
COLLINS: Right.
BERNARD: If it weren't for his albums he wouldn't have even remembered what he was doing then.
COLLINS: That's sad.
BOROWITZ: He was also apparently kind of upset about Courtney's 40th birthday. And I think that kind of set him back, too. COLLINS: I was going to say something and then there's nothing to say there.
All right, let's talk Shaq.
TOURE: Yes.
COLLINS: Shaq is expected to be traded to the Miami Heat.
TOURE: Yes.
COLLINS: What does this mean for the Lakers?
TOURE: Well, really...
COLLINS: What does this mean to you, Toure?
TOURE: To me personally, well, I'm happy to see the destruction of the Lakers. I was one of the anybody-but-the-Lakers people. And I know there were a lot of them. This is all about Kobe. This is about his ego. I want this to be my team. He orchestrated get Shaq out of here or I'm going to leave.
So, I mean, like this is all about him and his ego. But the thing is when you make these massive trades like this, it never works. It never evens out. The Heat are going to be one of the best teams of the East. The Lakers are going to suck for years to come.
BERNARD: But what's to happen when their star player is possibly jailed and they're not going to have anybody?
TOURE: Right, right, right.
BOROWITZ: You know, why does get to call the shots? That's what I'm really confused by.
TOURE: Because he's 25, and the Lakers think he's going to be great for a while.
BOROWITZ: Right.
TOURE: And Shaq is 32.
BOROWITZ: Assuming he's free to roam.
TOURE: Right.
BERNARD: But are they not thinking that he might not be available to play?
TOURE: I mean, Kobe is so great you can't not take the chance that he's going to be out there.
BERNARD: Oh.
TOURE: But I don't see how you proceed toward Kobe rather than the best player in the league, which is Shaq.
BOROWITZ: Even if he is in prison, he will score 30 points.
TOURE: That's right. That's right.
BERNARD: Somehow he will (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
COLLINS: Who does Kobe want to play with?
TOURE: Well, he says he wants to play with the Lakers. He's entertaining offers, which means...
COLLINS: I see.
TOURE: ... you come to his mansion. The Clippers and the Nuggets can come to his mansion for an hour...
COLLINS: That's amazing.
TOURE: ... and tell them why he should play with them.
COLLINS: Yes.
TOURE: The Knicks want him, but everybody wants him.
BERNARD: I want to know what's going to happen to Jack Nicholson and all of the front row at the Lakers. Are they all going to just going to the Heat games or what? Is Jack going to move to Miami?
COLLINS: We'll have to wait and see about that. Can you imagine?
All right, you guys, we certainly appreciate it this morning. Andy, Sarah and Toure, thanks so much.
TOURE: Thank you.
COLLINS: Anderson -- back over to you.
COOPER: All right, coming up next hour on AMERICAN MORNING, John Edwards has Southern roots and a Southern accent. So, why do some experts say he could give Kerry a boost in the North? We'll talk about that. Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.
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Aired July 12, 2004 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to talk with a journalist who has seen it all.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: And then "90-Second Pop" is coming up. Courtney Love, a topic of conversation this weekend after giving everyone plenty to talk about -- handcuffed, taken to a hospital. It just gets worse and worse for her. All in all, a really bad weekend for her. We'll talk about that in "90-Second Pop."
COLLINS: First though, White House officials have discussed the possibility of postponing this year's general election in the event of a terrorist attack. But implementing such a delay could be a logistical nightmare.
Here now is Tom Foreman in Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If a terrorist attack came in the final days of the campaign or on Election Day itself, could the voting be postponed? That question is being raised by the U.S. Election Assistance Commission and taken up by Homeland Security and the Justice Department, too.
GRACIA HILLMAN, U.S. ELECTION ASSISTANCE COMMISSION: I think that we've been lucky so far that nothing has ever occurred to disrupt the presidential election, but that doesn't mean that something couldn't happen. And we believe prudent planning is the thing that should be done.
FOREMAN: These government officials are mindful of the Spanish train attack, which killed nearly 200 people. Three days later, Spain's prime minister, who supported the war in Iraq, was voted out. Now officials say intelligence suggests something like that could happen here.
TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Al Qaeda is moving forward with its plans to carry out a large-scale attack in the United States in an effort to disrupt our democratic process.
FOREMAN: The political fallout from such an attack is wildly uncertain. After 9/11, support for President Bush rose.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I can hear you.
FOREMAN: It is also unclear whether the election can be moved. Homeland Security says, "It would take an act of Congress to amend the Constitution, possibly amendments to 50 state constitutions." And maybe changes to "voting rules in thousands of counties and towns."
(on camera): In other words, federal officials see the possibility of delaying the election as very remote. And some lawmakers are calling it a pure doomsday scenario.
SEN. JAY ROCKEFELLER (D), NEW YORK: It'd be a terrible mistake, a terrible mistake.
FOREMAN (voice over): Others believe developing a plan may be wise if it sends a message.
REP. CHRIS COX (R-CA), HOMELAND SECURITY CHAIRMAN: No matter what happens, no matter what terrorists do to our country, democracy is going to go on.
FOREMAN: Yet in the end, even those who support a plan for delaying the election say it's something they want to have and never have to use.
Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: The Election Assistance Commission which put forth the idea of a delay vote was created after the disputed 2000 election to help deal -- help states deal, that is, with logistical problems in their elections.
COOPER: Along with the beating and humiliating of Iraqi prisoners, the Army's report of Abu Ghraib Prison includes details of riots, escapes, shootings, bug-infested food and filthy living conditions for the prisoners and for the soldiers. "U.S. News & World Report" has gotten hold of the classified portions of the report. A story is in the latest issue of the magazine.
Edward Pound co-reported it, and he joins us now from Washington.
Edward, thanks for being with us.
EDWARD POUND, "U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT": Thank you.
COOPER: You have read all of the 106 classified annexes to the published Taguba report. What surprised you most?
POUND: Well, I think the utter chaos of the place is the overwhelming thing that comes through in this report. As you said in your introduction, you had a very chaotic situation there with the threat of riots. You had guns being smuggled into the prisons, knives. You had problems with force protection outside the prison. You had severe food problems for the prisoners. You had soldiers worried about their safety all the time.
COOPER: And as these reports sort of filtered up the chain of command, I mean, there were e-mails back and forth about the food, for instance.
POUND: Yes.
COOPER: There seemed to be a certain level of disregard or disbelief in some of the upper levels of the command.
POUND: Well, I think what happened was there was an exchange of e-mails between a major and another soldier from the 800th -- an officer from the 800th MP Brigade. And that officer in the 800th Brigade just didn't believe it. And...
COOPER: And tell us what they were saying in that e-mail. I mean, it was about the food and what they were finding in it.
POUND: Well, basically, Anderson, what he was saying is that they were being shorted on the food for the prisoners and that there was bugs, dirt and dirt in the food.
COOPER: Also pieces of rat, I guess, he said...
POUND: Yes, that's correct.
COOPER: Yes, it was pretty amazing. Also, the wording...
POUND: According to the e-mail.
COOPER: According to that e-mail. The warden who was appointed had never actually even been inside a prison before.
POUND: Yes, that's pretty incredible. The warden of the hard side prison or the cell blocks where they kept the people who were going to be interrogated had never been a warden, never been inside a prison before, and by his own account was ill-prepared to do the job. And he was -- when he came there, he saw all of these naked detainees or prisoners within the hard side. And when he asked about it, he was told by the military intelligence people who were running the interrogations that this was a common interrogation practice.
COOPER: And he sort of took that at face value and just said, OK, and really never addressed it again.
An Air Force psychiatrist who looked at the conditions inside called it a new psychological battlefield. What did he mean?
POUND: Well, he just meant that, again, that there was utter chaos. Dr. Nelson, an Air Force psychiatrist, laid it out pretty bluntly. He said that everyone who was at Abu Ghraib, the prisoners and soldiers alike, were in true danger, is the way he put it, and that the conditions were such that it was just a very chaotic and terrible situation for everybody to be in.
COOPER: Still a lot to be done on this. Edward Pound from "U.S. News & World Report," it's a fascinating article. Thanks for being with us.
POUND: You're welcome.
COLLINS: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, things get hairy in NASCAR. There was more than drama in the pit than there was on the track. We're going to have a look at that coming up.
COOPER: Yikes! Plus, in "90-Second Pop," Courtney Love probably didn't wish to end up in cuffs for her birthday. That is where she ended up anyway. Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(WEATHER BREAK)
COLLINS: Meanwhile, Jack is here. Lots of e-mails, I guess.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: How are you doing? Yes.
What's the issue that's going to turn this election? There is the war. There is the economy. There is health care. The Senate this week is debating the issue of gay marriage. Bush wants a constitutional amendment.
So, we thought we'd try and narrow this thing down and see what's going to eventually decide the outcome.
Carmen in Brooklyn, New York: "The economy and the war in Iraq are important issues in this election. However, when you have a family to support and your income is not enough to make ends meet, guess which is more important?"
Mel in New York: "The biggest issue in this election more than any other in recent memory will be to get a substantial majority of the eligible voters actually to vote. The 2000 election was a great bad example of what happens when people stay away from the polls."
Timothy in Minneapolis: "So, a new DCI can wait until after the November elections, but the constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage is getting the conservative fast track. Can we assume that gay marriage poses a greater threat to national security than the lack of a confirmed head of the nation's Central Intelligence Agency?"
Who knew?
Vicki in Boyertown, Pennsylvania: "If Bush gets or keeps the country scared enough, he wins."
And Kirk and Little Falls, Minnesota: "Come on, Jack. I worked in radio and television news in the late '70s and early '80s, and I thought "Anchorman" was hilarious. At our Minnesota theater where we admittedly only paid $4 to see the thing, we laughed ourselves silly. Hell, I knew Ron Burgundy." Kirk writes that from Little Falls.
If I had only paid $4, I might have thought it was funny.
COOPER: I think that maybe is the difference.
COLLINS: Yes, that's it.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
COOPER: Yes, for $4...
CAFFERTY: For $4, it's moderately funny. For nine bucks it's terrible. It's just an awful movie. Anyway...
COOPER: How do you really feel, Jack?
CAFFERTY: Bruce said, when was the last time you went to the movies? Was it "Network?" I don't go to a lot of movies.
COLLINS: That was a while ago, yes.
CAFFERTY: Keep it up and you'll be working "360" at night on Anderson Cooper's show.
COLLINS: You might like that.
CAFFERTY: It would probably be an improvement.
COLLINS: Yes.
COOPER: Still to come this morning, there was a shooting in broad daylight in Jersey City over the weekend and nobody seemed to mind. Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: It is 45 minutes past the hour. Time for a look at some of today's other news with Daryn Kagan.
Good morning -- Daryn.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you once again, Anderson.
Assurances this morning that a Filipino hostage held in Iraq is still alive. Iraqi insurgents are threatening to kill the truck driver unless that country's government pulls its troops from Iraq. Insurgents had imposed a Sunday deadline, but an official in Manila says the deadline has been extended, while Iraqi officials say talks are ongoing.
The final report from the 9/11 Commission is expected to be completed at the end of this week. According to a spokesman, the panel has already started the process of having it declassified for release later this month. The 10 members of the bipartisan commission are trying to reach unanimous support for the final document.
Gassing up the car will cost you slightly less, according to a new survey. Prices at the pump are down slightly, more than a penny over the last two weeks. The national average for a gallon of self- serve regular now, $1.93. The decrease in the price has slowed somewhat because the price of crude oil rose last week.
And exactly 200 years to this date, descendants of Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr re-enacted their ancestors' dual yesterday with replica pistols and in period costumes. More than 1,000 people attended that event. It took place in New Jersey.
And from the world for sports in racing, Tony Stewart's Tropicana 400 win was slightly marred after a wreck with Kasey Kahne. This wreck triggered a fight with the pit crews. Watch out. Things did get back under control. Stewart dominated the race, leading 160 of the 267 laps. It was his first win since October. Gear heads out there know, Anderson, that Tony Stewart is kind of the bad boy of NASCAR. He's been fined over $100,000 over the last six years. But he says this wreck was just an accident.
COOPER: Interesting.
KAGAN: Yes, don't blame him for being beautiful basically.
COOPER: Oh, is that what it is? Don't hate me. All right. Daryn Kagan, thanks very much.
We're joined now by the bad boy of news, Andy Serwer.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Yes.
COOPER: Business news that is.
SERWER: Thank you. I'll keep that. I'll keep that.
COOPER: So, wait. So, what's going on with the bar code?
SERWER: Well, it's black and white and soon to be red all over.
(CROSSTALK)
SERWER: Yes, also -- yes, the bad jokester of business news, Andy Serwer.
The bar code turned 30 last month, Anderson. And interestingly -- yes, interestingly -- there are two different standards for the bar code. There is the U.S. standard and there is the European standard. And...
COOPER: You don't need to tell me that.
SERWER: Yes, well, of course, you knew that. And, of course, as so often happens in these sorts of standardization things, you know, something has to got to give.
COOPER: Right.
SERWER: Because there are goods that fly back and forth all over the place. And guess what? The Europeans are going to win this one. So, starting...
COOPER: America is giving up the bar codes?
SERWER: Yes. Well, no, we're going to give up...
COOPER: Their version? SERWER: Our version has 12 numbers. There are the digits below the bars. Theirs have 13. So, we're going to go to the 13 system.
COLLINS: And this will get...
COOPER: Is there not any great uproar about this?
SERWER: There is a great -- well, the uproar is starting right here right now on AMERICAN MORNING. We're ticked.
COOPER: You're (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
SERWER: Yes, we're really, really upset about this. No, we're not. We don't really care as long as the goods flow across the cash registers, then fine. But there is -- you know, they may not. You know, they're saying this could be the next Y2K. Well, that wasn't really a problem, though, was it?
COLLINS: Oh, no, that was fine.
SERWER: OK.
COOPER: If I hear one more thing about Y2K, that was the biggest...
SERWER: Well, that was so long ago. OK, so get ready for the bar code conundrum coming January 1. The first thing to be scanned by the bar code, of course, was a pack of Juicy Fruit in June of 1974 in Troy, Ohio.
COOPER: Wow! How do you know that?
SERWER: I just...
COOPER: Because you're the bad boy of business news.
SERWER: That's it. I'm the bad boy of business news.
COOPER: And what about the markets?
SERWER: Let's do a quickie on that. I did say last week it was a kind of a rough one, not -- even though Friday was up a little bit. You can here. But still, we were down for the week.
And Merrill Lynch downgrading tech stocks this morning. So, it looks like we're going to have a weaker open. People are starting to rumble on Wall Street, just how strong is this recovery?
COOPER: Interesting.
SERWER: Interesting stuff.
COOPER: All right, Andy, thanks very much.
SERWER: You're welcome. COOPER: One programming note. Tonight on "LARRY KING LIVE," indicted Enron chief Ken Lay will do his first primetime interview. That is tonight at 9:00 Eastern.
COLLINS: And still to come this morning, some "90-Second Pop" to start your week. Heart problems sideline David Bowie. Is it time to start thinking retirement? Our panel takes up the question ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: I think I have just successfully offended the entire pop panel.
TOURE, "ROLLING STONE" MAGAZINE: The whole crew.
COLLINS: Oh, goodness. And in case you didn't know, it is time for "90-Second Pop" this Monday morning, we think. We have rounded up our usual suspects today. Toure, contributing editor for "Rolling Stone."
Hello, Toure.
TOURE: How are you?
COLLINS: "New York" magazine correcting editor Sarah Bernard. As always very lovely. And Andy Borowitz, the creative genius behind BorowitzReport.com.
SARAH BERNARD, "NEW YORK" MAGAZINE: Wow! What an honor to be in your presence.
TOURE: Wow!
ANDY BOROWITZ, HUMORIST: My agent is doing his work.
COLLINS: OK, Sarah, let's start with you. Courtney, what is going on?
BERNARD: I know.
COLLINS: This is not the best way to spend your 40th birthday.
BERNARD: A (UNINTELLIGIBLE) birthday.
COLLINS: Handcuffs, hospital, my goodness.
TOURE: Well...
BERNARD: Well, see, now, Courtney, we know that she's been having some unusual behavior going on. Apparently she was throwing bottles out the window of her Soho apartment. She was wandering the streets, kind of mumbling to herself, trying to bum cigarettes from strangers. And I think what happened is she has like the old rock star manual, which says that you have to be, you know, possibly on drugs, kind of getting yourself in the news for erratic, crazy behavior. And the new pop star manual is get married...
TOURE: As much as possible.
BERNARD: ... have a baby, move to the suburbs...
BOROWITZ: Convert to Judaism.
BERNARD: ... convert to kabala and all of that. So, she's just on the wrong...
TOURE: Rookie, rookie.
BERNARD: She's just on the wrong end. I mean, it is really sad, we have to say.
TOURE: Yes.
BERNARD: We don't want to make light of it.
BOROWITZ: I'm devastated.
BERNARD: And we're worried about Frances Bean. That's what we were talking about.
TOURE: Yes, yes.
BERNARD: You know, her daughter with Kurt Cobain.
BOROWITZ: You know what? What I liked about it is, you know, so many people when they turn 40 they, you know, make such a big deal out of it. And she decided to treat it just like any other day, which I think is great. I mean, I think that's hilarious.
BERNARD: Thirty-nine, 40, what's the difference?
BOROWITZ: It's the old bottle out the window, get carried away in handcuffs. It's good.
COLLINS: Toure, what's happening with her? Is she trying to get attention or it's that she's out of control?
TOURE: No, I don't look at it as a publicity maneuver. I mean, it's a very sad situation. I mean, for 10 years she's been dealing with the loss of Kurt, you know, various ups and downs in her career. The Frances Bean situation, she just recently -- I mean, she I don't know...
BERNARD: She lost custody.
TOURE: She lost custody.
COLLINS: Right.
TOURE: I mean, can you imagine? I mean, can you imagine what that does to a woman, like to lose custody of your baby?
COLLINS: No.
BERNARD: It causes you to throw bottles out of windows.
BOROWITZ: She was also apparently a little upset that Larry King spent a whole hour with Barbara Eden and not her. So, I think that (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
BERNARD: Maybe you can do something about that.
COLLINS: Let's talk David Bowie, you guys. Also some more hospital talk here. Heart surgery, emergency heart surgery actually, in L.A. last week. He's 57. Is it time for Ziggy to play guitar here or what?
BERNARD: Oh!
BOROWITZ: Oh, no, no, no. Ziggy actually now refers to his EKG. But, you know, I think, you know, 57, he is still in the prime of his career. You know, Jethro Tull is still rocking out. They're in their 80s. I think there is no reason why he should hang it up. I mean, the only thing I feel about it is that -- and I don't want to step on Dr. Sanjay Gupta's territory here.
COLLINS: No, no.
BOROWITZ: But as we age, as rock stars age, it's really important to avoid strenuous activities. For example, instead of like trashing your hotel room, maybe as you check out just tear up the bill, you know, something like that.
COLLINS: Right.
BERNARD: Steal some soap.
BOROWITZ: Yes, steal some soap and maybe some of the toiletries, but really just take it nice and easy. He has to worry about the ticker.
BERNARD: You know, I saw him in concert last year, and he looks fantastic.
BOROWITZ: He does.
BERNARD: He looks better than he ever has. And obviously he's been healthy for a while and clean. But he has said that there are entire periods of his life that he has no memory of.
COLLINS: Right.
BERNARD: If it weren't for his albums he wouldn't have even remembered what he was doing then.
COLLINS: That's sad.
BOROWITZ: He was also apparently kind of upset about Courtney's 40th birthday. And I think that kind of set him back, too. COLLINS: I was going to say something and then there's nothing to say there.
All right, let's talk Shaq.
TOURE: Yes.
COLLINS: Shaq is expected to be traded to the Miami Heat.
TOURE: Yes.
COLLINS: What does this mean for the Lakers?
TOURE: Well, really...
COLLINS: What does this mean to you, Toure?
TOURE: To me personally, well, I'm happy to see the destruction of the Lakers. I was one of the anybody-but-the-Lakers people. And I know there were a lot of them. This is all about Kobe. This is about his ego. I want this to be my team. He orchestrated get Shaq out of here or I'm going to leave.
So, I mean, like this is all about him and his ego. But the thing is when you make these massive trades like this, it never works. It never evens out. The Heat are going to be one of the best teams of the East. The Lakers are going to suck for years to come.
BERNARD: But what's to happen when their star player is possibly jailed and they're not going to have anybody?
TOURE: Right, right, right.
BOROWITZ: You know, why does get to call the shots? That's what I'm really confused by.
TOURE: Because he's 25, and the Lakers think he's going to be great for a while.
BOROWITZ: Right.
TOURE: And Shaq is 32.
BOROWITZ: Assuming he's free to roam.
TOURE: Right.
BERNARD: But are they not thinking that he might not be available to play?
TOURE: I mean, Kobe is so great you can't not take the chance that he's going to be out there.
BERNARD: Oh.
TOURE: But I don't see how you proceed toward Kobe rather than the best player in the league, which is Shaq.
BOROWITZ: Even if he is in prison, he will score 30 points.
TOURE: That's right. That's right.
BERNARD: Somehow he will (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
COLLINS: Who does Kobe want to play with?
TOURE: Well, he says he wants to play with the Lakers. He's entertaining offers, which means...
COLLINS: I see.
TOURE: ... you come to his mansion. The Clippers and the Nuggets can come to his mansion for an hour...
COLLINS: That's amazing.
TOURE: ... and tell them why he should play with them.
COLLINS: Yes.
TOURE: The Knicks want him, but everybody wants him.
BERNARD: I want to know what's going to happen to Jack Nicholson and all of the front row at the Lakers. Are they all going to just going to the Heat games or what? Is Jack going to move to Miami?
COLLINS: We'll have to wait and see about that. Can you imagine?
All right, you guys, we certainly appreciate it this morning. Andy, Sarah and Toure, thanks so much.
TOURE: Thank you.
COLLINS: Anderson -- back over to you.
COOPER: All right, coming up next hour on AMERICAN MORNING, John Edwards has Southern roots and a Southern accent. So, why do some experts say he could give Kerry a boost in the North? We'll talk about that. Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.
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