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American Morning

The War Over Political Ads; Discussion with RNC Chairman Ed Gillespie

Aired August 24, 2004 - 07:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: The president calls for outside groups to get out and stay out of campaign advertising. Will his objections make any difference at all in what you see on television? Amber Frey, the victim of an obsessive liar or a calculating seductress. Attorney Mark Geragos gets his chance to sway the jury.
And the high-tech crime fighters of Interpol, pursuing terrorists and criminals around the world, and now bringing their mission to prime-time. A look to this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: This is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien from New York, and from Washington...

KAGAN: Well, OK.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, top of the morning.

KAGAN: I think so. Good morning. I'm Daryn Kagan.

Bill and Soledad are off this morning. The inmates are running the asylum.

COOPER: I'm Anderson Cooper. Thanks for joining us this morning. A lot politics to cover this morning. There's the rising controversy over these 527 ads. We'll get reaction to that from the chairman of the Republican National Committee, Ed Gillespie.

KAGAN: Also this morning, we have part two in our series looking at how the entertainment industry shapes politics, today focusing on celebrities in office.

COOPER: Also Sanjay Gupta continues his "New You" checkup, focusing on a guy who was pretty stressed out at the beginning of the year, David Peck. He's looking pretty good there. We'll find out how his heart and his weight are doing.

KAGAN: And speaking of a good heart, Jack Cafferty is here.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Ah, nice try.

What's up with the Olympic judges? The athletes that compete in the Olympics train for all their lives to get that one moment on the world stage and some moron who's hired to judge these things can't bother to pay enough attention to the three minutes their performing to judge the competition without making an error. Now a mistake has been made that may -- may -- have entitled somebody besides Paul Hamm to the gold medal in the all-around gymnastics competition.

So we're going to take a look at that and trash the judges some more as we move along this morning.

KAGAN: Looking forward. Your favorite topic, the Olympics.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

KAGAN: Excellent. Thanks you, Jack.

Right now, we go down Carol Costello. She's at CNN Center with a look at what is happening now in the news.

Carol, good morning to you.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Daryn. Thank you.

Just hours ago, the Iraqi defense minister issues another ultimatum to followers of radical cleric Muqtada Al Sadr. These images just in to CNN within the last 20 minutes or so. You can see smoke rising from around the area around the Ali Imam Mosque. Fighting there is considered the most intense in days.

In the meantime, at least six people were killed in car bombings, apparently targeting two Iraqi ministers. Matthew Chance is with the U.S. Marines in Najaf. He'll joins us in the next half hour.

A military commission in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba begins the pretrial hearings for the first enemy combatants to face trial since World War II. Four men will be arraigned this week, including Australian David Hicks. His charges include attempted murder and conspiracy to commit war crimes. Details on what's expected during today's hearing from CNN's Susan Candiotti in the next hour.

Hundreds of people will be interviewed by health officials after more widespread reports of a mysterious illness after visits to Ohio's South Bass Island. Some 750 people are now reporting similar symptoms after being in the area. Officials are working to track down the source of the illnesses, but say the wide scope makes the investigation difficult.

And Japanese officials have reportedly decided to deport former world champion chess player Bobby Fischer. According to Immigration officials, This cited by Reuters News Agency, a deportation order was issued earlier today. Fischer has been wanted by the U.S. since 1992 for defying economic sanctions in Yugoslavia.

Back to you, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Carol. Thank very much.

Now to the war over political ads. President Bush is again calling for an end to attack ads by independent groups but he stopped short of specifically condemning those swift boat ads attacking John Kerry. That brought a swift response of its own.

Here's national correspondent Kelly Wallace.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATL. CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Another salvo in the swift boat controversy. The president calling for an end to attack ads by all independent groups.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: When you say that you want to stop all, that means...

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That means that ad, every other ad.

Absolutely. I don't think we ought to have 527s. I can't be more plain about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Sure you can, said the Democratic vice presidential candidate.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: George Bush faced his moment of truth, and he failed; he failed to condemn the specific attacks on John Kerry's military record.

WALLACE: Attack ads by independent groups are not new.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Now, this man is running for president. President?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Remember 1988, the infamous Willie Horton ad by a GOP group, targeting Democrat Michael Dukakis.

But never have these groups, called 527s, based on the section of the tax code that created them, been so powerful.

(on camera): Why? because they are not bound by the 2002 campaign finance law, which bans political parties from accepting unlimited contributions, known as soft money.

LARRY NOBLE, CTR. FOR RESPONSIVE POLITICS: So, really what you have is the McCain-Feingold law set up a barrier to soft money, and the Federal Election Commission has immediately blown loopholes in the barrier, loopholes that, frankly, you can drive swift boats through.

WALLACE (voice-over): The groups have raised a staggering $260 million in this race, with Democratic 527s far outracing Republicans 527s in fund-raising, spending more than $60 million since March on attack ads critical of President Bush.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ANNOUNCER: The second man sailed to the top of list on his father's name, was trained as a pilot, but failed to show up for a required physical.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Legally, the groups can't coordinate with either presidential campaign, but they can certainly help.

STU ROTHENBERG, POL. ANALYST: It's nice for the candidates to have somebody else doing dirty work, to have outside group launching the attacks, so that whether it's Senator Kerry or President Bush, they can say, hey, it's not my doing. I don't control these 527s.

WALLACE: They are free to raise and spend millions, and could end up playing a decisive role in this year's election.

Kelly Wallace, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, ads by independent groups are here to stay, at least for now. The Federal Election Committee recently ruled it would not consider imposing any rules on the independent groups until after the November election.

Here now to talk more about the ads and about what President Bush may be planning for his acceptance speech in next week's convention is Ed Gillespie, chairman of the Republican National Committee.

Ed, good to see you again.

ED GILLESPIE, CHAIRMAN, RNC: Good to see you.

COOPER: Let's start off talking about these ads. Yesterday, the president said, quote, "I think Senator Kerry served admirably and he ought to be proud of his record. It he really believed that, why won't he come out specifically and denounce these ads?

GILLESPIE: Well, President Bush has made the case against all of these 527 ads, including this ad as well, obviously. The fact is that there's been about $60 million in these 527 ads, I think only about a million of them has been spent on, you know, against Senator Kerry, $59 million against President Bush.

The fact is, when the law was written, we thought these things were outlawed, and I made the case to the Federal Election Commission, and now the Federal Election Commission says, oh, yes, we're going to stop them, but after the election.

COOPER: What's the strategy of not specifically condemning this ad? I mean, "The Washington Post" todays calls the president's response yesterday, talking about 527s, basically disingenuous. I think John Edwards called it a politician's answer. I mean, if you really believe these ads are wrong, why not say so? GILLESPIE: Well, the fact is that if you look at way, like I said, the way the system works, we should stop all of these ads, and...

COOPER: But why not specifically talk about these ads. John Kerry has specified certain ads...

GILLESPIE: Senator Kerry has said when Senator Cleland and when others have -- other veterans have made statements, that, you know, that have crossed the line, he said, well, veterans are free to expresses themselves. Well, you know, these veterans are free to express themselves as well under the current finance laws, and if we're going to end it, we ought to end it for everyone.

COOPER: But there seems to be some sort of -- I mean, it seems like there's a big pink elephant in the room, and -- but you're all talking about the circus. No one's talking about the specific ad. When I talked to Terry Holt last night, talking to you this morning, and the president yesterday, is there some sort of strategy not to talk about this particular ad?

GILLESPIE: You know, the fact is, what's I've just said is my answer. You may not like the answer. But you can ask me again, I'll give you the same answer.

COOPER: All right, that's your answer. We'll move on. Fine.

(LAUGHTER)

COOPER: Let's talk about the GOP convention a little bit. What should we be expecting? What do you anticipate the president saying? You've talked in the past being very specific. You've criticized John Kerry for not being specific enough at his conventions?

GILLESPIE: Well, what I said, was that they missed an opportunity in Boston to talk about the future, and talk about policies and talk about how Senator Kerry would, you know, how his policies would improve schools or make health care for affordable, or win the war on terror, or reduce our reliance on foreign sources of oil. I think that you'll see in New York City, we're going to talk about President Bush's record. They didn't talk about Senator Kerry's record at all in Boston. We're going to talk about President Bush's record.

And President Bush, as I understand it, is going to talk about the future, and about a new term and new policies, new agenda, and I think that's exciting. It will give all of us something, as we come out of New York, a positive agenda to be talking about into the November election.

COOPER: There's certainly there's a lot of people who would say they did talk about Senator Kerry's record at the Democratic Convention but obviously that's not...

GILLESPIE: Which part? Which part did they talk about at convention? COOPER: One thing I read this weekend in "The New York Times" which I found in very interesting...

GILLESPIE: I didn't think you'd have an answer.

COOPER: What?

GILLESPIE: I didn't think you'd have an answer.

COOPER: Well, no...

(CROSSTALK)

GILLESPIE: I'm just curious which part of his record they talked in Boston. Twenty years in the United States Senate, you said they talked about his record. What did they talk about?

COOPER: They talked about his restoring relations in Vietnam, his...

GILLESPIE: They did talk about Vietnam, you're right?

COOPER: Yes, so that's one of the things they talked about his record, and they talked about a lot of stuff in all the 100 and some odd hours.

GILLESPIE: I was there for the whole thing, and I didn't here much. I didn't hear them talk about his vote for tax increases. I didn't hear them talk about his vote to slash intelligence funding by $6 billion. I didn't hear them talk about his vote against the child tax credit. I didn't hear them talk about his vote for higher gasoline taxes.

COOPER: The criticism that you guys made of the Democratic convention was that it was sort of a makeover, that you were saying they didn't talk about his record, that they presented a sort of face that was different. The same criticism can be made about the Republican Convention. The people guys you guys have in primetime are the more moderate elements of the Republican Party. They're not the far-right element.

GILLESPIE: Cooper, I never objected to who they had on the stage. They're welcome to have all the speakers they want. My point is what they said, and what they didn't say. And again, they didn't talk about Senator Kerry's record, they didn't talk much about the future, and the fact is all the people you see here, the notion that we would come to New York and have a convention here, and not have Rudy Giuliani, or not have the mayor of the city, the Republican mayor of the city, or not have Governor Pataki is kind of...

COOPER: But there's also John McCain, Arnold Schwarzenegger, more moderate people.

GILLESPIE: Senator Rick Santorum and Senator Elizabeth Dole and congressman... COOPER: (INAUDIBLE) Sort of the key 10:00 to 11:00 prime-time slot that is so coveted. You've heard the criticism that you guys are doing a makeover convention. Your response to that criticism is?

GILLESPIE: Is that everyone's will be talking about President Bush's record, talking about his strong and principled leadership, talking about how this country has come together, and responded with great resilience after the attacks, and how our economy is improving, we have more to do, and talk about the president's positive agenda and his policies.

COOPER: Finally, "The New York Times" over the weekend said there is a desire to portray the thousands of expected protesters as, quote, "Democratic-sanctioned displays of disrespect for a sitting president." Is that fair to blame? Is that true, and is that fair?

GILLESPIE: Well, that wasn't my characterization of it. I think it was put in that context.

Let me tell you what I said to "The New York Times," which is I do think that in the FleetCenter in Boston, you had 93 percent, I believe, of the delegates there were opposed to the war, anti-war, leader of the organized labor spoke there. Many of the supporters of Senator Kerry or many of the supporters who are going to be outside the hall in Madison Square Garden. The fact is that the National Organization for Women, and the labor unions and the anti-war activists are Kerry supporters. They will be protesting. They're free to express their First Amendment rights, but they are indeed Kerry supporters who will be protesting at the Republican convention.

COOPER: So are you going to be portraying those protesters as an arm of the Democratic Party, sanctioned by the Democrats?

GILLESPIE: Well, they are Democrats. You know, whether they're an arm or sanctioned, I don't know, but there's no doubt their Democrats, there's no doubt their Kerry supporters.

COOPER: Right, but you could says the same of the Swift Boat Veterans, that their Republicans and...

GILLESPIE: Actually I believe I was just watching your show in the green room, and I saw the quote from a Swift Boat Veteran guys who says, I don't care who wins or loses this election; I'm just concerned about the truth.

COOPER: Right, but he's also said lot of things that other people say are not true, so, I mean, their seems to be some question about their political backing.

GILLESPIE: So you know he's a Republican?

COOPER: I don't know, but...

GILLESPIE: I don't either.

COOPER: I don't know, but I'm making the assumption. GILLESPIE: But he says he's not.

COOPER: He actually really hasn't said one way or the other.

GILLESPIE: He said he doesn't care who wins or loses the election.

COOPER: Well, but the point is, though, that, I mean, it seems, disingenuous if the Swift Boat Veterans are, you know -- I mean, you're basically saying that the protesters are in some way an arm of the Democratic Party. Swift Boat Veterans...

GILLESPIE: Let me say it again for you, Cooper, because what I said was I think just now if you could rewind and play the tape back on TiVo. What I said, was they were supporters of Senator Kerry and they were Democrats. I didn't say they're an arm of the Democratic Party. I said I wasn't aware of that.

COOPER: OK.

GILLESPIE: I'm pretty sure that's what I said.

COOPER: All right, well, I'm sure it is. Thanks for joining us.

GILLESPIE: Ed Gillespie, thanks very much for joining us -- Daryn.

KAGAN: All right, Anderson, thanks for that.

Now for the latest on the CIA. Some officials of the CIA do not like a plan that would put their agency under one roof, along with other key intelligence services. Some powerful voices in Washington also criticized a proposal by the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, saying it was a severe mistake to dismantle the CIA during wartime, but Senator Pat Roberts, who made the proposal Sunday, seems to think those critics are overreacting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Everybody's talking about the dismantling or the termination of the CIA. That's not correct. Every time that we have heard from George Tenet, or from John McLaughin or anybody else, they want the authority, which by the way is in the 1947 National Security Act, but, you know, they couldn't execute it.

Now we have moved those people over to a new line authority. We've realigned them under assistant national intelligence director. They'll get that authority, and they will be able to function in their job better than they are right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: We'll have a chance to talk live with Senator Roberts in our next hour here on AMERICAN MORNING. At least some of the blame for the abuse of the prisoners at Abu Ghraib is going to the top. A Pentagon report coming out today is widely expected to implicate Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, and former commander in Iraq General Ricardo Sanchez for failing to provide clear policies and practices for the soldiers running the prison. No action is expected against either man.

Another report that is likely to call for charges against a wider circle of people more directly involved in the abuses is due tomorrow.

One of those currently facing charges, Staff Sergeant Ivan "Chip" Frederick is expected to plead guilty today to one or two charges against him.

We're at 14 minutes past the hour.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COOPER: And still to come this morning, tracking down invisible armies in the war on terror. The new series, "Interpol Investigates," promises an inside look at the world's ultimate police force. How is Interpol preventing another 9/11 from happening? We'll look into that.

Also, part two and our weeklong series on politics and Hollywood. We call it "Pollywood." How does fame qualify somebody for public office?

COOPER: Pollywood?

Plus, Amber Frey faces off against Mark Geragos. He questions her about a huge lie she was willing to tell Scott Peterson. We'll heal from Frey's lawyer, Gloria Allred, next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: In Scott Peterson's double-murder trial, the defense yesterday began cross-examining his ex-mistress Amber Frey. I spoke with Frey's lawyer, Gloria Allred, about how she thinks the testimony has gone so far.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Gloria, Mark Geragos is known for being tough against witnesses. How did you prepare Amber Frey for her testimony?

GLORIA ALLRED, AMBER FREY'S ATTY.: Well, Anderson, she was ready. She really didn't require much in the way of preparation. The person who would have required a great deal of preparation, had he taken the witness stand, would be Scott Peterson, because he would have had to extricate himself from such a web of lies, such massive deception, and, of course, I don't think he would have been successful, and that's why he will not take the witness stand during this trial.

COOPER: Are you happy with your client yesterday on the witness stand under cross-examination?

ALLRED: I'm very happy with the way that she did. She came across as the credible person that she is, extremely careful. When she knew an answer, she gave it. If she didn't recall, she said so. She referred to documents to be sure that what she was saying was accurate. She, I think, is a very sympathetic witness, and I don't think that Mr. Geragos did anything to change that.

COOPER: She did say on the stand that, and he sort of got her to say, that she had suggested to police to pretend to be pregnant in these phone conversations with Scott Peterson in order to try to get him to elicit some information, I guess the information being that if she's willing to lie in that way or come up with those lies, maybe her credibility is somewhat in question. Do you think he did any damage to her?

ALLRED: Absolutely not. That was just a suggestion by Miss Frey. It never was done. There was an eight-month pregnant woman missing, and if there was any way that she could elicit information from Mr. Peterson about the disappearance of Laci, if he had any information to give, then she was open to doing it. And as it was, they did not use that particular suggestion, but I don't think she needs to make any apologies for trying to get that information that could help to find Laci. In fact, I think she should be commended for it.

COOPER: According to some police reports, apparently, authorities were somewhat suspicious, though, that your client may not have actually tape recorded all the phone conversations she actually had with Scott Peterson. I want to read just one of the exchanging that Mark Geragos had with your client yesterday, and the then ask you about it.

Geragos said, "Did you ever not turn over tapes?"

Frey said, "I turned over every tape that I recorded."

"Did you ever make or receive calls from Scott Peterson you didn't immediately tell detectives about?"

"No."

"At any point, did you hid any information from Modesto Police Department."

"No."

In your mind, your client fully cooperated with police?

ALLRED: Not only in my mind, but in reality. She fully cooperated with police. She turned over all tape recordings that she made. It's my opinion that Modesto police are very, very happy with her participation, and with her cooperation, with her assistance in this case. And I think that Modesto Police will have no complaints whatsoever about Miss Frey.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Scott Peterson is charged with killing his wife Laci, they're unborn son, around Christmas of 2002 -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Still to come, a lot of folks thought that Toys 'R' Us would soon need to think seriously about changing its name. Now the company says, not so fast. Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business."

Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: We'll talk about this later. OK, very good.

It is time for "The Cafferty File" and the Question of the Day.

CAFFERTY: Indeed it is. Thank you, Daryn.

With the Olympics comes judging controversy. Seems like you can't have one without the other. The 2002 Winter Olympics, the Canadian pair, Jamie Sale and David Pelletier, awarded a second gold after it was discovered a French judge had been pressured to score a Russian pair higher. After the 1992 Games, double golds awarded to synchronized swimming because a judge admitting to a scoring error.

So maybe it's no surprise that the judges now admit to making a mistake that may have cost a South Korean gymnast first place in the men's competitions in all-around gymnastics.

Olympic officials are letting the medal awards stand. Paul Hamm of the United States won the gold, but now the medal is a bit tarnished, and some critics say he may not even deserve it. The question is this, should Olympic gymnast Paul Hamm give us his gold medal.

the second question is, should the judges at these Games pay attention closely enough to do it right when the future of somebody who has sent their whole life training to compete in the Olympics is on the line?

These performances last two minutes. I mean, can you handle it for 120 seconds? Just focus on your job and do it right, and then we wouldn't be doing stories like this.

Anyway, if you think the medal ought to stand or be given back, or whatever want to talk about, am@CNN.com.

COOPER: I mean, you got to feel for Hamm, who's in this situation not of his own making, and he's getting booed at...

CAFFERTY: Oh, last night...

COOPER: Last night he gets booed.

CAFFERTY: With the Russian guy. Ten minutes it took to quiet down the crowd down, and then he had to go and perform after that. COOPER: Yes. Whether or not you think he should give back the medal, you got to feel for him.

KAGAN: The Korean guy, too. That's his dream.

COOPER: Absolutely.

CAFFERTY: I mean, the judge who made that mistake should be stripped naked, covered in guacamole and made to walk around the Olympic arena during the closing ceremonies with a big sign, says, I was the guy who screwed up the gold medal.

COOPER: I think that's actually going to be an Olympic event!

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Wow!

COOPER: All right, let's move on.

Toys 'R' Us may not be cutting loose some of its toy stores just yet.

Andy Serwer joins us "Minding Your Business."

Andy, good to see you.

SERWER: Good to see you, Anderson.

COOPER: So good news for Toys 'R' Us?

SERWER: Yes, well, sort of, Anderson. I mean, this is one of the most startling and ironic business headlines in recent memory. Two weeks ago Toys 'R' Us saying it might get out of the toy business. Wags on Wall Street starting saying, Toys 'R' Not Us, Toys Were Us.

Now the company says, well, not so fast, we may not be getting out of the toy business. And it reminds me of the Mark Twain line, "Reports of my death were greatly exaggerated."

Of course, Toys 'R' Us is really taking a beating from companies like Wal-Mart, especially Wal-Mart, which is the biggest toy retailer in the world. They were thinking about splitting the company up, you guys, into Toys 'R' Us and Babies 'R' Us. Bottom line here, is if you're thinking about doing something like this, just thinking about it, don't tell the world...

COOPER: Don't announce it.

SERWER: Don't announce it.

COOPER: OK, I mean, that's the headline there. Let's talk about the markets yesterday quickly, kind of a mixed session.

Here we go. The Dow is down a little bit, the Nasdaq up a little bit, and we need that, because the Nasdaq is down 8 percent for the year, and there's a word on Wall Street about that; it's yuck. That's not very good. So we'll be watching that, have more on the stock market later on this morning.

KAGAN: Very good.

COOPER: Andy, thanks very much.

KAGAN: We are going inside the world's biggest crime fighting organization, Interpol: why a new television show could help in the war on terror.

Plus, a movie star, a former pro wrestler and Radar from "MASH." They went from showbiz to politics. How in the world did their experience prepare them for office? Part II of our series "Pollywood" is coming up. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired August 24, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: The president calls for outside groups to get out and stay out of campaign advertising. Will his objections make any difference at all in what you see on television? Amber Frey, the victim of an obsessive liar or a calculating seductress. Attorney Mark Geragos gets his chance to sway the jury.
And the high-tech crime fighters of Interpol, pursuing terrorists and criminals around the world, and now bringing their mission to prime-time. A look to this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: This is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien from New York, and from Washington...

KAGAN: Well, OK.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, top of the morning.

KAGAN: I think so. Good morning. I'm Daryn Kagan.

Bill and Soledad are off this morning. The inmates are running the asylum.

COOPER: I'm Anderson Cooper. Thanks for joining us this morning. A lot politics to cover this morning. There's the rising controversy over these 527 ads. We'll get reaction to that from the chairman of the Republican National Committee, Ed Gillespie.

KAGAN: Also this morning, we have part two in our series looking at how the entertainment industry shapes politics, today focusing on celebrities in office.

COOPER: Also Sanjay Gupta continues his "New You" checkup, focusing on a guy who was pretty stressed out at the beginning of the year, David Peck. He's looking pretty good there. We'll find out how his heart and his weight are doing.

KAGAN: And speaking of a good heart, Jack Cafferty is here.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Ah, nice try.

What's up with the Olympic judges? The athletes that compete in the Olympics train for all their lives to get that one moment on the world stage and some moron who's hired to judge these things can't bother to pay enough attention to the three minutes their performing to judge the competition without making an error. Now a mistake has been made that may -- may -- have entitled somebody besides Paul Hamm to the gold medal in the all-around gymnastics competition.

So we're going to take a look at that and trash the judges some more as we move along this morning.

KAGAN: Looking forward. Your favorite topic, the Olympics.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

KAGAN: Excellent. Thanks you, Jack.

Right now, we go down Carol Costello. She's at CNN Center with a look at what is happening now in the news.

Carol, good morning to you.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Daryn. Thank you.

Just hours ago, the Iraqi defense minister issues another ultimatum to followers of radical cleric Muqtada Al Sadr. These images just in to CNN within the last 20 minutes or so. You can see smoke rising from around the area around the Ali Imam Mosque. Fighting there is considered the most intense in days.

In the meantime, at least six people were killed in car bombings, apparently targeting two Iraqi ministers. Matthew Chance is with the U.S. Marines in Najaf. He'll joins us in the next half hour.

A military commission in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba begins the pretrial hearings for the first enemy combatants to face trial since World War II. Four men will be arraigned this week, including Australian David Hicks. His charges include attempted murder and conspiracy to commit war crimes. Details on what's expected during today's hearing from CNN's Susan Candiotti in the next hour.

Hundreds of people will be interviewed by health officials after more widespread reports of a mysterious illness after visits to Ohio's South Bass Island. Some 750 people are now reporting similar symptoms after being in the area. Officials are working to track down the source of the illnesses, but say the wide scope makes the investigation difficult.

And Japanese officials have reportedly decided to deport former world champion chess player Bobby Fischer. According to Immigration officials, This cited by Reuters News Agency, a deportation order was issued earlier today. Fischer has been wanted by the U.S. since 1992 for defying economic sanctions in Yugoslavia.

Back to you, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Carol. Thank very much.

Now to the war over political ads. President Bush is again calling for an end to attack ads by independent groups but he stopped short of specifically condemning those swift boat ads attacking John Kerry. That brought a swift response of its own.

Here's national correspondent Kelly Wallace.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATL. CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Another salvo in the swift boat controversy. The president calling for an end to attack ads by all independent groups.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: When you say that you want to stop all, that means...

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That means that ad, every other ad.

Absolutely. I don't think we ought to have 527s. I can't be more plain about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Sure you can, said the Democratic vice presidential candidate.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: George Bush faced his moment of truth, and he failed; he failed to condemn the specific attacks on John Kerry's military record.

WALLACE: Attack ads by independent groups are not new.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Now, this man is running for president. President?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Remember 1988, the infamous Willie Horton ad by a GOP group, targeting Democrat Michael Dukakis.

But never have these groups, called 527s, based on the section of the tax code that created them, been so powerful.

(on camera): Why? because they are not bound by the 2002 campaign finance law, which bans political parties from accepting unlimited contributions, known as soft money.

LARRY NOBLE, CTR. FOR RESPONSIVE POLITICS: So, really what you have is the McCain-Feingold law set up a barrier to soft money, and the Federal Election Commission has immediately blown loopholes in the barrier, loopholes that, frankly, you can drive swift boats through.

WALLACE (voice-over): The groups have raised a staggering $260 million in this race, with Democratic 527s far outracing Republicans 527s in fund-raising, spending more than $60 million since March on attack ads critical of President Bush.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ANNOUNCER: The second man sailed to the top of list on his father's name, was trained as a pilot, but failed to show up for a required physical.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Legally, the groups can't coordinate with either presidential campaign, but they can certainly help.

STU ROTHENBERG, POL. ANALYST: It's nice for the candidates to have somebody else doing dirty work, to have outside group launching the attacks, so that whether it's Senator Kerry or President Bush, they can say, hey, it's not my doing. I don't control these 527s.

WALLACE: They are free to raise and spend millions, and could end up playing a decisive role in this year's election.

Kelly Wallace, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, ads by independent groups are here to stay, at least for now. The Federal Election Committee recently ruled it would not consider imposing any rules on the independent groups until after the November election.

Here now to talk more about the ads and about what President Bush may be planning for his acceptance speech in next week's convention is Ed Gillespie, chairman of the Republican National Committee.

Ed, good to see you again.

ED GILLESPIE, CHAIRMAN, RNC: Good to see you.

COOPER: Let's start off talking about these ads. Yesterday, the president said, quote, "I think Senator Kerry served admirably and he ought to be proud of his record. It he really believed that, why won't he come out specifically and denounce these ads?

GILLESPIE: Well, President Bush has made the case against all of these 527 ads, including this ad as well, obviously. The fact is that there's been about $60 million in these 527 ads, I think only about a million of them has been spent on, you know, against Senator Kerry, $59 million against President Bush.

The fact is, when the law was written, we thought these things were outlawed, and I made the case to the Federal Election Commission, and now the Federal Election Commission says, oh, yes, we're going to stop them, but after the election.

COOPER: What's the strategy of not specifically condemning this ad? I mean, "The Washington Post" todays calls the president's response yesterday, talking about 527s, basically disingenuous. I think John Edwards called it a politician's answer. I mean, if you really believe these ads are wrong, why not say so? GILLESPIE: Well, the fact is that if you look at way, like I said, the way the system works, we should stop all of these ads, and...

COOPER: But why not specifically talk about these ads. John Kerry has specified certain ads...

GILLESPIE: Senator Kerry has said when Senator Cleland and when others have -- other veterans have made statements, that, you know, that have crossed the line, he said, well, veterans are free to expresses themselves. Well, you know, these veterans are free to express themselves as well under the current finance laws, and if we're going to end it, we ought to end it for everyone.

COOPER: But there seems to be some sort of -- I mean, it seems like there's a big pink elephant in the room, and -- but you're all talking about the circus. No one's talking about the specific ad. When I talked to Terry Holt last night, talking to you this morning, and the president yesterday, is there some sort of strategy not to talk about this particular ad?

GILLESPIE: You know, the fact is, what's I've just said is my answer. You may not like the answer. But you can ask me again, I'll give you the same answer.

COOPER: All right, that's your answer. We'll move on. Fine.

(LAUGHTER)

COOPER: Let's talk about the GOP convention a little bit. What should we be expecting? What do you anticipate the president saying? You've talked in the past being very specific. You've criticized John Kerry for not being specific enough at his conventions?

GILLESPIE: Well, what I said, was that they missed an opportunity in Boston to talk about the future, and talk about policies and talk about how Senator Kerry would, you know, how his policies would improve schools or make health care for affordable, or win the war on terror, or reduce our reliance on foreign sources of oil. I think that you'll see in New York City, we're going to talk about President Bush's record. They didn't talk about Senator Kerry's record at all in Boston. We're going to talk about President Bush's record.

And President Bush, as I understand it, is going to talk about the future, and about a new term and new policies, new agenda, and I think that's exciting. It will give all of us something, as we come out of New York, a positive agenda to be talking about into the November election.

COOPER: There's certainly there's a lot of people who would say they did talk about Senator Kerry's record at the Democratic Convention but obviously that's not...

GILLESPIE: Which part? Which part did they talk about at convention? COOPER: One thing I read this weekend in "The New York Times" which I found in very interesting...

GILLESPIE: I didn't think you'd have an answer.

COOPER: What?

GILLESPIE: I didn't think you'd have an answer.

COOPER: Well, no...

(CROSSTALK)

GILLESPIE: I'm just curious which part of his record they talked in Boston. Twenty years in the United States Senate, you said they talked about his record. What did they talk about?

COOPER: They talked about his restoring relations in Vietnam, his...

GILLESPIE: They did talk about Vietnam, you're right?

COOPER: Yes, so that's one of the things they talked about his record, and they talked about a lot of stuff in all the 100 and some odd hours.

GILLESPIE: I was there for the whole thing, and I didn't here much. I didn't hear them talk about his vote for tax increases. I didn't hear them talk about his vote to slash intelligence funding by $6 billion. I didn't hear them talk about his vote against the child tax credit. I didn't hear them talk about his vote for higher gasoline taxes.

COOPER: The criticism that you guys made of the Democratic convention was that it was sort of a makeover, that you were saying they didn't talk about his record, that they presented a sort of face that was different. The same criticism can be made about the Republican Convention. The people guys you guys have in primetime are the more moderate elements of the Republican Party. They're not the far-right element.

GILLESPIE: Cooper, I never objected to who they had on the stage. They're welcome to have all the speakers they want. My point is what they said, and what they didn't say. And again, they didn't talk about Senator Kerry's record, they didn't talk much about the future, and the fact is all the people you see here, the notion that we would come to New York and have a convention here, and not have Rudy Giuliani, or not have the mayor of the city, the Republican mayor of the city, or not have Governor Pataki is kind of...

COOPER: But there's also John McCain, Arnold Schwarzenegger, more moderate people.

GILLESPIE: Senator Rick Santorum and Senator Elizabeth Dole and congressman... COOPER: (INAUDIBLE) Sort of the key 10:00 to 11:00 prime-time slot that is so coveted. You've heard the criticism that you guys are doing a makeover convention. Your response to that criticism is?

GILLESPIE: Is that everyone's will be talking about President Bush's record, talking about his strong and principled leadership, talking about how this country has come together, and responded with great resilience after the attacks, and how our economy is improving, we have more to do, and talk about the president's positive agenda and his policies.

COOPER: Finally, "The New York Times" over the weekend said there is a desire to portray the thousands of expected protesters as, quote, "Democratic-sanctioned displays of disrespect for a sitting president." Is that fair to blame? Is that true, and is that fair?

GILLESPIE: Well, that wasn't my characterization of it. I think it was put in that context.

Let me tell you what I said to "The New York Times," which is I do think that in the FleetCenter in Boston, you had 93 percent, I believe, of the delegates there were opposed to the war, anti-war, leader of the organized labor spoke there. Many of the supporters of Senator Kerry or many of the supporters who are going to be outside the hall in Madison Square Garden. The fact is that the National Organization for Women, and the labor unions and the anti-war activists are Kerry supporters. They will be protesting. They're free to express their First Amendment rights, but they are indeed Kerry supporters who will be protesting at the Republican convention.

COOPER: So are you going to be portraying those protesters as an arm of the Democratic Party, sanctioned by the Democrats?

GILLESPIE: Well, they are Democrats. You know, whether they're an arm or sanctioned, I don't know, but there's no doubt their Democrats, there's no doubt their Kerry supporters.

COOPER: Right, but you could says the same of the Swift Boat Veterans, that their Republicans and...

GILLESPIE: Actually I believe I was just watching your show in the green room, and I saw the quote from a Swift Boat Veteran guys who says, I don't care who wins or loses this election; I'm just concerned about the truth.

COOPER: Right, but he's also said lot of things that other people say are not true, so, I mean, their seems to be some question about their political backing.

GILLESPIE: So you know he's a Republican?

COOPER: I don't know, but...

GILLESPIE: I don't either.

COOPER: I don't know, but I'm making the assumption. GILLESPIE: But he says he's not.

COOPER: He actually really hasn't said one way or the other.

GILLESPIE: He said he doesn't care who wins or loses the election.

COOPER: Well, but the point is, though, that, I mean, it seems, disingenuous if the Swift Boat Veterans are, you know -- I mean, you're basically saying that the protesters are in some way an arm of the Democratic Party. Swift Boat Veterans...

GILLESPIE: Let me say it again for you, Cooper, because what I said was I think just now if you could rewind and play the tape back on TiVo. What I said, was they were supporters of Senator Kerry and they were Democrats. I didn't say they're an arm of the Democratic Party. I said I wasn't aware of that.

COOPER: OK.

GILLESPIE: I'm pretty sure that's what I said.

COOPER: All right, well, I'm sure it is. Thanks for joining us.

GILLESPIE: Ed Gillespie, thanks very much for joining us -- Daryn.

KAGAN: All right, Anderson, thanks for that.

Now for the latest on the CIA. Some officials of the CIA do not like a plan that would put their agency under one roof, along with other key intelligence services. Some powerful voices in Washington also criticized a proposal by the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, saying it was a severe mistake to dismantle the CIA during wartime, but Senator Pat Roberts, who made the proposal Sunday, seems to think those critics are overreacting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Everybody's talking about the dismantling or the termination of the CIA. That's not correct. Every time that we have heard from George Tenet, or from John McLaughin or anybody else, they want the authority, which by the way is in the 1947 National Security Act, but, you know, they couldn't execute it.

Now we have moved those people over to a new line authority. We've realigned them under assistant national intelligence director. They'll get that authority, and they will be able to function in their job better than they are right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: We'll have a chance to talk live with Senator Roberts in our next hour here on AMERICAN MORNING. At least some of the blame for the abuse of the prisoners at Abu Ghraib is going to the top. A Pentagon report coming out today is widely expected to implicate Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, and former commander in Iraq General Ricardo Sanchez for failing to provide clear policies and practices for the soldiers running the prison. No action is expected against either man.

Another report that is likely to call for charges against a wider circle of people more directly involved in the abuses is due tomorrow.

One of those currently facing charges, Staff Sergeant Ivan "Chip" Frederick is expected to plead guilty today to one or two charges against him.

We're at 14 minutes past the hour.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COOPER: And still to come this morning, tracking down invisible armies in the war on terror. The new series, "Interpol Investigates," promises an inside look at the world's ultimate police force. How is Interpol preventing another 9/11 from happening? We'll look into that.

Also, part two and our weeklong series on politics and Hollywood. We call it "Pollywood." How does fame qualify somebody for public office?

COOPER: Pollywood?

Plus, Amber Frey faces off against Mark Geragos. He questions her about a huge lie she was willing to tell Scott Peterson. We'll heal from Frey's lawyer, Gloria Allred, next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: In Scott Peterson's double-murder trial, the defense yesterday began cross-examining his ex-mistress Amber Frey. I spoke with Frey's lawyer, Gloria Allred, about how she thinks the testimony has gone so far.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Gloria, Mark Geragos is known for being tough against witnesses. How did you prepare Amber Frey for her testimony?

GLORIA ALLRED, AMBER FREY'S ATTY.: Well, Anderson, she was ready. She really didn't require much in the way of preparation. The person who would have required a great deal of preparation, had he taken the witness stand, would be Scott Peterson, because he would have had to extricate himself from such a web of lies, such massive deception, and, of course, I don't think he would have been successful, and that's why he will not take the witness stand during this trial.

COOPER: Are you happy with your client yesterday on the witness stand under cross-examination?

ALLRED: I'm very happy with the way that she did. She came across as the credible person that she is, extremely careful. When she knew an answer, she gave it. If she didn't recall, she said so. She referred to documents to be sure that what she was saying was accurate. She, I think, is a very sympathetic witness, and I don't think that Mr. Geragos did anything to change that.

COOPER: She did say on the stand that, and he sort of got her to say, that she had suggested to police to pretend to be pregnant in these phone conversations with Scott Peterson in order to try to get him to elicit some information, I guess the information being that if she's willing to lie in that way or come up with those lies, maybe her credibility is somewhat in question. Do you think he did any damage to her?

ALLRED: Absolutely not. That was just a suggestion by Miss Frey. It never was done. There was an eight-month pregnant woman missing, and if there was any way that she could elicit information from Mr. Peterson about the disappearance of Laci, if he had any information to give, then she was open to doing it. And as it was, they did not use that particular suggestion, but I don't think she needs to make any apologies for trying to get that information that could help to find Laci. In fact, I think she should be commended for it.

COOPER: According to some police reports, apparently, authorities were somewhat suspicious, though, that your client may not have actually tape recorded all the phone conversations she actually had with Scott Peterson. I want to read just one of the exchanging that Mark Geragos had with your client yesterday, and the then ask you about it.

Geragos said, "Did you ever not turn over tapes?"

Frey said, "I turned over every tape that I recorded."

"Did you ever make or receive calls from Scott Peterson you didn't immediately tell detectives about?"

"No."

"At any point, did you hid any information from Modesto Police Department."

"No."

In your mind, your client fully cooperated with police?

ALLRED: Not only in my mind, but in reality. She fully cooperated with police. She turned over all tape recordings that she made. It's my opinion that Modesto police are very, very happy with her participation, and with her cooperation, with her assistance in this case. And I think that Modesto Police will have no complaints whatsoever about Miss Frey.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Scott Peterson is charged with killing his wife Laci, they're unborn son, around Christmas of 2002 -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Still to come, a lot of folks thought that Toys 'R' Us would soon need to think seriously about changing its name. Now the company says, not so fast. Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business."

Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: We'll talk about this later. OK, very good.

It is time for "The Cafferty File" and the Question of the Day.

CAFFERTY: Indeed it is. Thank you, Daryn.

With the Olympics comes judging controversy. Seems like you can't have one without the other. The 2002 Winter Olympics, the Canadian pair, Jamie Sale and David Pelletier, awarded a second gold after it was discovered a French judge had been pressured to score a Russian pair higher. After the 1992 Games, double golds awarded to synchronized swimming because a judge admitting to a scoring error.

So maybe it's no surprise that the judges now admit to making a mistake that may have cost a South Korean gymnast first place in the men's competitions in all-around gymnastics.

Olympic officials are letting the medal awards stand. Paul Hamm of the United States won the gold, but now the medal is a bit tarnished, and some critics say he may not even deserve it. The question is this, should Olympic gymnast Paul Hamm give us his gold medal.

the second question is, should the judges at these Games pay attention closely enough to do it right when the future of somebody who has sent their whole life training to compete in the Olympics is on the line?

These performances last two minutes. I mean, can you handle it for 120 seconds? Just focus on your job and do it right, and then we wouldn't be doing stories like this.

Anyway, if you think the medal ought to stand or be given back, or whatever want to talk about, am@CNN.com.

COOPER: I mean, you got to feel for Hamm, who's in this situation not of his own making, and he's getting booed at...

CAFFERTY: Oh, last night...

COOPER: Last night he gets booed.

CAFFERTY: With the Russian guy. Ten minutes it took to quiet down the crowd down, and then he had to go and perform after that. COOPER: Yes. Whether or not you think he should give back the medal, you got to feel for him.

KAGAN: The Korean guy, too. That's his dream.

COOPER: Absolutely.

CAFFERTY: I mean, the judge who made that mistake should be stripped naked, covered in guacamole and made to walk around the Olympic arena during the closing ceremonies with a big sign, says, I was the guy who screwed up the gold medal.

COOPER: I think that's actually going to be an Olympic event!

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Wow!

COOPER: All right, let's move on.

Toys 'R' Us may not be cutting loose some of its toy stores just yet.

Andy Serwer joins us "Minding Your Business."

Andy, good to see you.

SERWER: Good to see you, Anderson.

COOPER: So good news for Toys 'R' Us?

SERWER: Yes, well, sort of, Anderson. I mean, this is one of the most startling and ironic business headlines in recent memory. Two weeks ago Toys 'R' Us saying it might get out of the toy business. Wags on Wall Street starting saying, Toys 'R' Not Us, Toys Were Us.

Now the company says, well, not so fast, we may not be getting out of the toy business. And it reminds me of the Mark Twain line, "Reports of my death were greatly exaggerated."

Of course, Toys 'R' Us is really taking a beating from companies like Wal-Mart, especially Wal-Mart, which is the biggest toy retailer in the world. They were thinking about splitting the company up, you guys, into Toys 'R' Us and Babies 'R' Us. Bottom line here, is if you're thinking about doing something like this, just thinking about it, don't tell the world...

COOPER: Don't announce it.

SERWER: Don't announce it.

COOPER: OK, I mean, that's the headline there. Let's talk about the markets yesterday quickly, kind of a mixed session.

Here we go. The Dow is down a little bit, the Nasdaq up a little bit, and we need that, because the Nasdaq is down 8 percent for the year, and there's a word on Wall Street about that; it's yuck. That's not very good. So we'll be watching that, have more on the stock market later on this morning.

KAGAN: Very good.

COOPER: Andy, thanks very much.

KAGAN: We are going inside the world's biggest crime fighting organization, Interpol: why a new television show could help in the war on terror.

Plus, a movie star, a former pro wrestler and Radar from "MASH." They went from showbiz to politics. How in the world did their experience prepare them for office? Part II of our series "Pollywood" is coming up. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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