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American Morning
Two Presidential Candidates Go Head to Head Tomorrow Night; Could John Walker Lindh Be Getting Out of Prison Early?
Aired September 29, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Debate rules. The candidates say they will play by them. News organizations say they will not. This morning, the campaigns respond.
Joy in Italy for the two Simonas released by kidnappers in Iraq. What happened to set them free?
A daring rush for freedom in China: 44 North Koreans leap over the embassy walls begging for asylum.
And $10 million and the future of tourism in space, on the line in a Californian desert, on this AMERICAN MORNING.
And good morning, everyone. Welcome, 7:00 here in New York City. I'm Bill Hemmer, along with Heidi Collins, in for Soledad.
Good morning to you.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
HEMMER: A lot to watch today. Among the stories we're following, contrasting speaking styles and a long list of rules highlight this year's debates. The first debate now just a day away. We'll talk to Mary Matalin and Mike McCurry, the Bush and Kerry campaigns. Find out how each candidate will need to adjust to the other's techniques and what the goals are set out on each camp for Thursday night in Miami.
COLLINS: Also, everybody knows how important Florida is, of course, in this year's election, but right now the state is thinking only about this: recovering from hurricanes and not politics. So Kelly Wallace this morning looking at how Charley, Frances, Ivan and Jeanne could affect this year's voting.
Also, Jack Cafferty, good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: How are you doing? Cell phones in the school. It's a problem all around the country. Penalties range up to and including jailtime if you take a cell phone to school in some states. We're going to take a look at all the various positions on why Muffy and Buffy ought to be able to told immediately if their little goldfish die. That's coming up in a few minutes.
HEMMER: And wait until they get Blackberries in a few years, too.
CAFFERTY: Well, they probably have some of those, too, right?
HEMMER: You might be right.
Rick Sanchez watching the other news today.
Rick, good morning. Nice to have you.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, incredible video that we're going to share with you of what people will do for a better life. Here it is. This is a massive scramble for freedom. Exclusive CNN pictures showing 45 North Koreans scaling the wall around the Canadian embassy in Beijing. All of them got in, except for one, who was pulled from a tree and detained by guards. Still not clear if the others are going to be allowed to leave China, although the fact the case is now public will probably help their cause, so say people who know about these incidents in the past.
Now a refugee contacted inside the embassy tells CNN the group wanted to go to the South Korean embassy, but they decided that it just was too heavily guarded, so they went to the Canadian embassy instead.
Remember the USS Cole bombing? Well, two of the conspirators responsible for it have now been sentenced. The Al Qaeda network took responsibility for the October 2000 attack. It killed 17 America sailors and left almost 40 others wounded. Just hours ago, a Yemeni judge sentenced the two men to death, and one of them is the apparent mastermind of the bombing. Four others have been given jail sentences as well.
Central Californians are cleaning their homes and trying to calm their nerves after a strong earthquake yesterday. This quake with a magnitude of six struck yesterday between Los Angeles and Sacramento. Video from the store surveillance camera captures these shakes. There were no reports of injuries or minor -- or major damage, I should say. But Scott Peterson's trial was adjourned for a while because of the earthquake.
And finally, there's a contest in the Mojave Desert for people who want to go into space. In fact, in about two hours, one of the 26 team members is -- will be competing to attempt to fly a three-seat jet out of the Earth's atmosphere. The grand prize or X-Prize, as it's called, is set at $10 million. Important to note that later in the show we're going to talk to CNN's Miles O'Brien. He's there in California, covering this for us. That's the news.
Let's go back to you guys.
HEMMER: All right, great thanks for that.
Thirty-four days and counting on the calendar now. Both President Bush and Senator Kerry head off for Florida later today before tomorrow night's debate in Miami. No public events yesterday oh for the two men, but almost everyone else is out there campaigning. Vice President candidate John Edwards was in Pennsylvania, and in New Jersey making campaign appearances with a 9/11 widow there. The vice president, Dick Cheney, made stops in Iowa and Wisconsin, two states he and the president lost four years ago. The first lady, Laura Bush, met with voters in Nevada yesterday. Today she's in New Mexico. And Elizabeth Edwards in West Virginia yesterday, campaigning with military mothers supporting John Kerry.
Now the two presidential candidates go head to head tomorrow night in Florida, the first of three meetings. First, from the Kerry campaign this morning, here is senior adviser Mike McCurry.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: What does John Kerry home to accomplish Thursday night?
MIKE MCCURRY, SR. ADVISER, KERRY CAMPAIGN: I think the end of 90 minutes he can be our commander in chief, that he has a very clear plan for winning the war in Iraq, bringing our troops home and winning the war on terror. I think that's what people are looking for in this debate.
You know, the tone of the campaign has turned increasingly negative. And President Bush's campaign has spent millions and millions of dollars to create a lot of negative impressions of Senator Kerry. The good thing about tomorrow night is the two of them stand side by side and really layout what they would do to lead America in a different direction and help America lead the world in a different direction. I think people will clearly see that Senator Kerry has got the preferable plan.
HEMMER: Al Gore debated George Bush four years ago. Today in "The New York Times," he writes -- I'm quoting now -- "My advice to John Kerry is simple. Be prepared for the toughest debates of your career. While George Bush's campaign has made lowering expectations into a high art form, the record is clear, he's a skilled debater who used the format to his advantage. There is no reason to expect any less this around."
What do you make of that analysis from Al Gore?
MCCURRY: That is right on, and from someone who knows. I think Senator Gore would be the first -- or Vice President Gore would be the first to say that President Bush really did quite a job, quite a number on him in those debates in 2000.
But if you even look back, President Bush's debate when he was running for governor against Ann Richards in 1994 was really a classic example of how you turn the tables. He's a -- we've been doing all of our spin, too, putting President Bush up there with Lincoln, and Douglas and Cicero, but you know, some of that is the gamesmanship that goes on before these debates. This is a very serious debate. President Bush knows what he needs to do tomorrow night. But you know, he probably won't do it. And what he really needs to do is answer questions that the American people have about where he would lead us in Iraq, how we would deal with the consequences of his very wrong choices, and he needs to respond to Senator Kerry's thoughtful plan of what we need to do in Iraq and the war on terror. If we have that debate, I think it will be good for the American people. HEMMER: How will John Kerry respond if George Bush calls him a flip-flopper, as John Kerry's been painted? How does he respond to that?
MCCURRY: He'll say, you know, look, if you want to look at who has been the flop, it's the policies in Iraq, on education, on the economy, where we are, the wrong choices we have made and the wrong direction the nation is going. I think the choice couldn't be clearer.
HEMMER: We showed a poll yesterday, 52 percent think George Bush will win this debate. You're essentially the underdog, according to these numbers. Do you like that?
MCCURRY: I think it's always good to go into one of these high- profile debates as an underdog. But look, at the end, the important thing is you strip away all the negativity from the debate, so far, and you really get to look into the heart and soul of the candidate, and say, who really is going to get us to where we need to be as a nation, and where are we going to be in the world at the end of the next four years after this president serves? And I think that's certainly a great opportunity for Senator Kerry, because Americans will get a chance to hear him really talk about what he would do as president. I think that's always a good opportunity for a challenger to an incumbent.
HEMMER: Let me get to one more issue here. Apparently, there's an ongoing debate between the debate commission, the rules they want to established for these debates and what the networks, television will follow along, cut-away shots of the person who is not answering the question at the time. Is this going to continue to be an ongoing debate? Or is there a sense of agreement that you have at this point?
MCCURRY: Look, I hope not. When the Presidential Commission on Debates first announced its format and its plans, Senator Kerry quickly accepted. This commission has done a great job, by the way. They have institutionalized presidential debates, so we don't go through this exercise every four years, so the candidates debate about whether they're really going to have a debate. Senator Kerry accepted. I think the format can be worked out. I think it's important for journalistic organizations to have integrity. The two campaigns worked out some structure in the debate that would help both candidates have the best chance to present their ideas. But we understand that journalism is journalism, and it's not politics.
So I think it's all going to work out fine. I think this is a kind of sideshow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Mike McCurry from earlier today. We want to hear how the president now is approaching this debate. Mary Matalin, senior adviser to the Bush campaign at the headquarters in Arlington, Virginia.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) HEMMER: Each side sets out its goals. What does George Bush hope to accomplish Thursday night?
MARY MATALIN, SR. ADVISER, BUSH CAMPAIGN: Well, President Bush, in a great advantage in this debate for him, is that he knows what he thinks, why he thinks it. He'll be talking about the record, his fine record of progress here, and he'll be talking about the agenda going forward, his vision for the future, where wants to lead the country, how he wants to, and the plan that he has for winning the war on terror specifically. And then a lot of -- well, this is not a domestic debate, but he does have a lot of plans going forward for next term.
HEMMER: John Kerry is no newcomer to debates. He has a lot of experience in this area from the state of Massachusetts. What concerns you about John Kerry's style?
MATALIN: Well, you're absolutely right, Bill. Senator Kerry has spent his life debating from prep school, through college, through 20 years in the Senate; he has been a prosecutor. So we know he's a formidable debater.
The problem for Senator Kerry is that he his record and his campaign has been fraught with inconsistency, contradictions. His issue, the issue and the challenge for Senator Kerry at this debate is to bring some clarity to his massive vacillation throughout this campaign, particularly on those issues that are most important to Americans, and that's national security. Yet he has been all over the board. I think he has 10 distinct positions on Iraq. He has not laid out any plan for the global war on terror. So without that kind of clarity, without some conveyance of conviction, no matter what a great debater Senator Kerry is, he'll be disadvantaged in the beginning.
HEMMER: Back to the question though -- do you have concerns about his style?
MATALIN: Sure. He's a very feisty debater. But our objective is not to win on debate points; our objective is to continue laying out for the American people the way in which President Bush is going to win the war on terror and talk about the progress we have made. The Iraqis and the Afghanis are having -- Afghanistan -- Afghanis are going to be having their first elections in their history. There is progress in the region. They're marching toward freedom. They're marching toward self-representation. That's the only way for us to be secure. Until those regions are stable, we're not going to be secure here, and the president -- that's our objective, to talk to the American people about the president is going to make them secure, not to win on debate points.
HEMMER: Yes, George Bush gets a lot of credit for staying on message.
License to what Ann Richards said about that message with Larry King.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ANN RICHARDS (D), FMR. TEXAS GOVERNOR: If you ask Bush what time it is, he's going to say Saddam Hussein was a bad man and he has to go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: What do you make of that, Mary?
MATALIN: Well, Saddam Hussein is -- was a bad man, did have to go, President Clinton was the president who instituted regime change.
HEMMER: That's not what she was saying, though. You know what she was saying. She was saying if you ask him what time he is, he'll switch the topic to Saddam Hussein. Is that part of the strategy Thursday night?
MATALIN: I presume she's saying that as a compliment. The point here there is something to say to the American people, and to be disciplined enough to explain how we're going to win the war on terror is a good thing.
HEMMER: Our polling show most Americans show George Bush will win the debate. Do you like playing with a lead?
MATALIN: Well, we'd rather be in a position than we are than to be he behind, but the fact of the matter is this remains, whatever the polls say, a very close race. We are running like it's a close race. The president is out there, the vice president, asking for every vote. We're going to fight until the end. We know that it's competitive. And we feel like we're in a good position in this debate, again, because the president knows wheat thinks, why he thinks that, the way that he does, what he wants to do, where he wants to lead the nation, and that stands in stark contrast to his opponent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: All right, there you have it from both sides, Mary Matalin, Mike McCurry before that. The debate tomorrow night set for 9:00 Eastern Time. Our live coverage begins at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. And you can watch AMERICAN MORNING as we get ready for the first debate. We'll be live in Miami tomorrow morning. And then voter reaction from Columbus, Ohio on Friday morning, perhaps the most interesting element to all these debates. We've heard from the surrogates time and time and time again. We have yet to hear from voters in a real sense. We'll get that for you Thursday night and again Friday morning.
COLLINS: It will be good to know what they think, right.
HEMMER: I think you're right.
COLLINS: All right, well the Italian government will not comment on reports that a million-dollar ransom may have been paid for the release of its hostages in Iraq. The two female humanitarian workers arrived in Rome last night, one week after an Islamic Web site claimed they were dead. While Italians widely celebrated the women's freedom, one government official said blackmail money had been paid for their lives.
And a deal to free two French journalists is being treated with caution now. French official says a third party negotiated the deal with an Iraqi militant group that's been holding the pair since the 21st of August.
Finally, four of six Egyptian telecommunication workers were freed yesterday.
HEMMER: Almost 14 minutes past the hour.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COLLINS: Still to come, a new theory in the double-murder trial of Scott Peterson. The defense offers a new take on how Laci Peterson was killed. We'll look at how it could clear Scott's name.
HEMMER: Also, picking a candidate while picking up the pieces, how Mother Nature has complicated Florida politics even more this year.
And could American Taliban fighter John Walker Lindh be getting out of prison early? We'll talk with Jeff Toobin about that, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Lawyers for American-born Taliban John Walker Lindh are asking President Bush to commute his 20-year prison sentence. Walker Lindh, you'll recall, was captured in Afghanistan and later pleaded guilty to aiding the Taliban government. Attorneys claim his case is similar to that of Yaser Hamdi, another U.S. citizen seized in Afghanistan who is being released from prison.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES BROSNAHAN, ATTY. FOR JOHN WALKER LINDH: Mr. Hamdi and Mr. Lindh were found in the same place and surrendered to the Northern Alliance. Mr. Hamdi and Mr. Lindh did not fight American troops at any time, never, ever did they do that. It seems to us as a matter of justice, and if I may use the word, compassion, for the president to consider reducing John Lindh's sentence.
COLLINS: So what kind of case is there for an appeal? Well, senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin is with us now to discuss just that.
First of all, though, Jeff, how comparable are these two cases, of Yaser Hamdi and John Walker Lindh?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, we don't really know for sure, because the facts behind Yaser Hamdi's arrests have never really been made public. He's never been tried in a courtroom. And one of the reasons he's being released, apparently, is that there is no critical legal case to be made against him. Yes, it's true both were arrested, or seized, helping the Taliban in Afghanistan.
But beyond that, in terms of what Hamdi was precisely doing there, we don't know. Lindh, we now know, was working for the Taliban, not fighting American troops, but we have a better sense of what he was doing.
COLLINS: So then probably just as hard to say whether or not this is going to happen, whether or not his sentence will be reduced.
TOOBIN: No, I think it's very easy to say that there's no way President Bush is going to do this. President Bush, the last thing in the world John Walker Lindh is going to get is a reduction in sentence from President Bush. However, I think Mr. Brosnahan, the lawyer, is laying the groundwork for down the road. Remember, this is a 20-year sentence. There are several presidents who will take office during his term in office and -- I mean during his time in prison. One of them may decide, you know, enough is enough, comparable fairness dictates that he be released.
COLLINS: Well, then you bring up the question, how rare is it that you actually go directly to the president to ask for something like this?
TOOBIN: Well, what's interesting here is that his legal case is over; there is no way to ask the court to reduce his sentence. So his only hope is for a commutation or pardon from the president. There is an Office of Pardon Affairs in the Justice Department. It happens occasionally. Remember, President Clinton famously pardoned a whole bunch of people right before he left office. But I think this is not really an effort by Brosnahan to get President Bush to pardon John Walker Lindh, because that's not going to happen, but maybe the next president, four years from now, eight years from now, whenever it is, to a have a little more of a sense of rough justice with the other people captured in Afghanistan.
COLLINS: Do you think it has anything to do with 34 days until the election? Is that why you're so adamant?
TOOBIN: I mean, that's one reason, but John Walker Lindh, there's just no way President Bush is going to have the remotest sympathy for him. So there's no way he's going to do it. But I do think raising the issue of fairness is a good idea down the road for perhaps a reduction of sentence, you know, at some point.
COLLINS: We will see this again come up in the courts?
TOOBIN: We will, indeed.
COLLINS: All right, thanks so much, Jeff Toobin, as always -- Bill.
HEMMER: Heidi, a stunning announcement by the man at the head of Delta Airlines.
Andy "Minding Your Business," checks in now.
A stunner, huh?
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Yes, good morning to you, Bill.
Interesting. How many times over the past couple years have we seen job cuts by big companies. And who gets the brunt of it? Of course it's the unions, the salaried employees. But now Delta Airlines announcing to CEO Gerald Grinstein that a 10 percent paycut will be felt by executives, executives of the company taking a 10 percent paycut, including Mr. Grinstein himself. He's going to be forgoing $125,000 of his salary. Quite an example for the pilots union.
HEMMER: That it is, yes, setting an example for them as they continue to get these negotiations and try and get that ship right again with Delta.
U.S. Air has more new today, too.
SERWER: Yes, the same kind of deal here as well, Bill. Executive payroll going to be cut by 20 percent at that company in Chapter 11 right now, reducing the pay of 3,000 managers. And you know, it's about time, because you can't just have the union employees, the salary people, feeling the pinch without the people in the cockpit. Of course some of the airline executives actually got raises during these periods.
HEMMER: Makes you wonder.
SERWER: Doesn't work.
HEMMER: Thank you, Andy.
SERWER: You're welcome.
HEMMER: Get a break here in a moment. Hurricanes have left much of Florida in disarray, but they've also made some problems for the men running for president. Back in a moment here on AMERICAN MORNING, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Time now for "The Cafferty File," and the question of the day from Jack -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: There you. Thank you, Heidi.
Hundreds of schools around the country trying to figure out what to do about the little gremlins and their cell phones. Critics say that they are a distraction for the students, that the students abuse their use by cheating on tests with them and straying from their work. It's probably the kind of thing we would have done if we had cell phones when we were in school.
But some parents say they want to be able to get in touch with their kids at all times? Why? During the last few years, enjoy the fact that they're away at school. States and counties have fought about what to do about the cell phone problem. Carrying a cell phone in school in Florida carries a 10-day suspension. Carrying one in Louisiana could mean 30 days in jail. That's a tough place, Louisiana. Other states are leaving the decision up to the individual counties.
So the question is this, what should the restrictions be on cell phones in the schools?
Whatever happened to this -- am@CNN. Whatever happened to this idea if you have an emergency, you call the school and say, please, go tell Johnny to call me on his lunch hour because the goldfish died, or whatever the...
COLLINS: I think it's what happens after the school once they leave. They've to have them with them so that when they leave after the school...
CAFFERTY: Well, so when you get to school in the morning, you check the cell phones, just like if it was a knife, or a gun. And you pick the little cell phone up when you leave the school property at the end of the school day. And in the meantime, just go to school, try to learn to read and write, you know, stuff like that.
COLLINS: That you do at school.
CAFFERTY: Huh?
COLLINS: Stuff that you do at school.
CAFFERTY: That you're supposed to do at school.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.
Wednesday morning dose of "90-Second Pop" coming up here in just a moment.
Daytime diva Star Jones gets ready to take the trip down the aisle. Why do some say she's turned into a bride-zilla. Plus, critics have some surprising thing to say about "Wife Swap." Stay with us, on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired September 29, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Debate rules. The candidates say they will play by them. News organizations say they will not. This morning, the campaigns respond.
Joy in Italy for the two Simonas released by kidnappers in Iraq. What happened to set them free?
A daring rush for freedom in China: 44 North Koreans leap over the embassy walls begging for asylum.
And $10 million and the future of tourism in space, on the line in a Californian desert, on this AMERICAN MORNING.
And good morning, everyone. Welcome, 7:00 here in New York City. I'm Bill Hemmer, along with Heidi Collins, in for Soledad.
Good morning to you.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
HEMMER: A lot to watch today. Among the stories we're following, contrasting speaking styles and a long list of rules highlight this year's debates. The first debate now just a day away. We'll talk to Mary Matalin and Mike McCurry, the Bush and Kerry campaigns. Find out how each candidate will need to adjust to the other's techniques and what the goals are set out on each camp for Thursday night in Miami.
COLLINS: Also, everybody knows how important Florida is, of course, in this year's election, but right now the state is thinking only about this: recovering from hurricanes and not politics. So Kelly Wallace this morning looking at how Charley, Frances, Ivan and Jeanne could affect this year's voting.
Also, Jack Cafferty, good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: How are you doing? Cell phones in the school. It's a problem all around the country. Penalties range up to and including jailtime if you take a cell phone to school in some states. We're going to take a look at all the various positions on why Muffy and Buffy ought to be able to told immediately if their little goldfish die. That's coming up in a few minutes.
HEMMER: And wait until they get Blackberries in a few years, too.
CAFFERTY: Well, they probably have some of those, too, right?
HEMMER: You might be right.
Rick Sanchez watching the other news today.
Rick, good morning. Nice to have you.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, incredible video that we're going to share with you of what people will do for a better life. Here it is. This is a massive scramble for freedom. Exclusive CNN pictures showing 45 North Koreans scaling the wall around the Canadian embassy in Beijing. All of them got in, except for one, who was pulled from a tree and detained by guards. Still not clear if the others are going to be allowed to leave China, although the fact the case is now public will probably help their cause, so say people who know about these incidents in the past.
Now a refugee contacted inside the embassy tells CNN the group wanted to go to the South Korean embassy, but they decided that it just was too heavily guarded, so they went to the Canadian embassy instead.
Remember the USS Cole bombing? Well, two of the conspirators responsible for it have now been sentenced. The Al Qaeda network took responsibility for the October 2000 attack. It killed 17 America sailors and left almost 40 others wounded. Just hours ago, a Yemeni judge sentenced the two men to death, and one of them is the apparent mastermind of the bombing. Four others have been given jail sentences as well.
Central Californians are cleaning their homes and trying to calm their nerves after a strong earthquake yesterday. This quake with a magnitude of six struck yesterday between Los Angeles and Sacramento. Video from the store surveillance camera captures these shakes. There were no reports of injuries or minor -- or major damage, I should say. But Scott Peterson's trial was adjourned for a while because of the earthquake.
And finally, there's a contest in the Mojave Desert for people who want to go into space. In fact, in about two hours, one of the 26 team members is -- will be competing to attempt to fly a three-seat jet out of the Earth's atmosphere. The grand prize or X-Prize, as it's called, is set at $10 million. Important to note that later in the show we're going to talk to CNN's Miles O'Brien. He's there in California, covering this for us. That's the news.
Let's go back to you guys.
HEMMER: All right, great thanks for that.
Thirty-four days and counting on the calendar now. Both President Bush and Senator Kerry head off for Florida later today before tomorrow night's debate in Miami. No public events yesterday oh for the two men, but almost everyone else is out there campaigning. Vice President candidate John Edwards was in Pennsylvania, and in New Jersey making campaign appearances with a 9/11 widow there. The vice president, Dick Cheney, made stops in Iowa and Wisconsin, two states he and the president lost four years ago. The first lady, Laura Bush, met with voters in Nevada yesterday. Today she's in New Mexico. And Elizabeth Edwards in West Virginia yesterday, campaigning with military mothers supporting John Kerry.
Now the two presidential candidates go head to head tomorrow night in Florida, the first of three meetings. First, from the Kerry campaign this morning, here is senior adviser Mike McCurry.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: What does John Kerry home to accomplish Thursday night?
MIKE MCCURRY, SR. ADVISER, KERRY CAMPAIGN: I think the end of 90 minutes he can be our commander in chief, that he has a very clear plan for winning the war in Iraq, bringing our troops home and winning the war on terror. I think that's what people are looking for in this debate.
You know, the tone of the campaign has turned increasingly negative. And President Bush's campaign has spent millions and millions of dollars to create a lot of negative impressions of Senator Kerry. The good thing about tomorrow night is the two of them stand side by side and really layout what they would do to lead America in a different direction and help America lead the world in a different direction. I think people will clearly see that Senator Kerry has got the preferable plan.
HEMMER: Al Gore debated George Bush four years ago. Today in "The New York Times," he writes -- I'm quoting now -- "My advice to John Kerry is simple. Be prepared for the toughest debates of your career. While George Bush's campaign has made lowering expectations into a high art form, the record is clear, he's a skilled debater who used the format to his advantage. There is no reason to expect any less this around."
What do you make of that analysis from Al Gore?
MCCURRY: That is right on, and from someone who knows. I think Senator Gore would be the first -- or Vice President Gore would be the first to say that President Bush really did quite a job, quite a number on him in those debates in 2000.
But if you even look back, President Bush's debate when he was running for governor against Ann Richards in 1994 was really a classic example of how you turn the tables. He's a -- we've been doing all of our spin, too, putting President Bush up there with Lincoln, and Douglas and Cicero, but you know, some of that is the gamesmanship that goes on before these debates. This is a very serious debate. President Bush knows what he needs to do tomorrow night. But you know, he probably won't do it. And what he really needs to do is answer questions that the American people have about where he would lead us in Iraq, how we would deal with the consequences of his very wrong choices, and he needs to respond to Senator Kerry's thoughtful plan of what we need to do in Iraq and the war on terror. If we have that debate, I think it will be good for the American people. HEMMER: How will John Kerry respond if George Bush calls him a flip-flopper, as John Kerry's been painted? How does he respond to that?
MCCURRY: He'll say, you know, look, if you want to look at who has been the flop, it's the policies in Iraq, on education, on the economy, where we are, the wrong choices we have made and the wrong direction the nation is going. I think the choice couldn't be clearer.
HEMMER: We showed a poll yesterday, 52 percent think George Bush will win this debate. You're essentially the underdog, according to these numbers. Do you like that?
MCCURRY: I think it's always good to go into one of these high- profile debates as an underdog. But look, at the end, the important thing is you strip away all the negativity from the debate, so far, and you really get to look into the heart and soul of the candidate, and say, who really is going to get us to where we need to be as a nation, and where are we going to be in the world at the end of the next four years after this president serves? And I think that's certainly a great opportunity for Senator Kerry, because Americans will get a chance to hear him really talk about what he would do as president. I think that's always a good opportunity for a challenger to an incumbent.
HEMMER: Let me get to one more issue here. Apparently, there's an ongoing debate between the debate commission, the rules they want to established for these debates and what the networks, television will follow along, cut-away shots of the person who is not answering the question at the time. Is this going to continue to be an ongoing debate? Or is there a sense of agreement that you have at this point?
MCCURRY: Look, I hope not. When the Presidential Commission on Debates first announced its format and its plans, Senator Kerry quickly accepted. This commission has done a great job, by the way. They have institutionalized presidential debates, so we don't go through this exercise every four years, so the candidates debate about whether they're really going to have a debate. Senator Kerry accepted. I think the format can be worked out. I think it's important for journalistic organizations to have integrity. The two campaigns worked out some structure in the debate that would help both candidates have the best chance to present their ideas. But we understand that journalism is journalism, and it's not politics.
So I think it's all going to work out fine. I think this is a kind of sideshow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Mike McCurry from earlier today. We want to hear how the president now is approaching this debate. Mary Matalin, senior adviser to the Bush campaign at the headquarters in Arlington, Virginia.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) HEMMER: Each side sets out its goals. What does George Bush hope to accomplish Thursday night?
MARY MATALIN, SR. ADVISER, BUSH CAMPAIGN: Well, President Bush, in a great advantage in this debate for him, is that he knows what he thinks, why he thinks it. He'll be talking about the record, his fine record of progress here, and he'll be talking about the agenda going forward, his vision for the future, where wants to lead the country, how he wants to, and the plan that he has for winning the war on terror specifically. And then a lot of -- well, this is not a domestic debate, but he does have a lot of plans going forward for next term.
HEMMER: John Kerry is no newcomer to debates. He has a lot of experience in this area from the state of Massachusetts. What concerns you about John Kerry's style?
MATALIN: Well, you're absolutely right, Bill. Senator Kerry has spent his life debating from prep school, through college, through 20 years in the Senate; he has been a prosecutor. So we know he's a formidable debater.
The problem for Senator Kerry is that he his record and his campaign has been fraught with inconsistency, contradictions. His issue, the issue and the challenge for Senator Kerry at this debate is to bring some clarity to his massive vacillation throughout this campaign, particularly on those issues that are most important to Americans, and that's national security. Yet he has been all over the board. I think he has 10 distinct positions on Iraq. He has not laid out any plan for the global war on terror. So without that kind of clarity, without some conveyance of conviction, no matter what a great debater Senator Kerry is, he'll be disadvantaged in the beginning.
HEMMER: Back to the question though -- do you have concerns about his style?
MATALIN: Sure. He's a very feisty debater. But our objective is not to win on debate points; our objective is to continue laying out for the American people the way in which President Bush is going to win the war on terror and talk about the progress we have made. The Iraqis and the Afghanis are having -- Afghanistan -- Afghanis are going to be having their first elections in their history. There is progress in the region. They're marching toward freedom. They're marching toward self-representation. That's the only way for us to be secure. Until those regions are stable, we're not going to be secure here, and the president -- that's our objective, to talk to the American people about the president is going to make them secure, not to win on debate points.
HEMMER: Yes, George Bush gets a lot of credit for staying on message.
License to what Ann Richards said about that message with Larry King.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ANN RICHARDS (D), FMR. TEXAS GOVERNOR: If you ask Bush what time it is, he's going to say Saddam Hussein was a bad man and he has to go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: What do you make of that, Mary?
MATALIN: Well, Saddam Hussein is -- was a bad man, did have to go, President Clinton was the president who instituted regime change.
HEMMER: That's not what she was saying, though. You know what she was saying. She was saying if you ask him what time he is, he'll switch the topic to Saddam Hussein. Is that part of the strategy Thursday night?
MATALIN: I presume she's saying that as a compliment. The point here there is something to say to the American people, and to be disciplined enough to explain how we're going to win the war on terror is a good thing.
HEMMER: Our polling show most Americans show George Bush will win the debate. Do you like playing with a lead?
MATALIN: Well, we'd rather be in a position than we are than to be he behind, but the fact of the matter is this remains, whatever the polls say, a very close race. We are running like it's a close race. The president is out there, the vice president, asking for every vote. We're going to fight until the end. We know that it's competitive. And we feel like we're in a good position in this debate, again, because the president knows wheat thinks, why he thinks that, the way that he does, what he wants to do, where he wants to lead the nation, and that stands in stark contrast to his opponent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: All right, there you have it from both sides, Mary Matalin, Mike McCurry before that. The debate tomorrow night set for 9:00 Eastern Time. Our live coverage begins at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. And you can watch AMERICAN MORNING as we get ready for the first debate. We'll be live in Miami tomorrow morning. And then voter reaction from Columbus, Ohio on Friday morning, perhaps the most interesting element to all these debates. We've heard from the surrogates time and time and time again. We have yet to hear from voters in a real sense. We'll get that for you Thursday night and again Friday morning.
COLLINS: It will be good to know what they think, right.
HEMMER: I think you're right.
COLLINS: All right, well the Italian government will not comment on reports that a million-dollar ransom may have been paid for the release of its hostages in Iraq. The two female humanitarian workers arrived in Rome last night, one week after an Islamic Web site claimed they were dead. While Italians widely celebrated the women's freedom, one government official said blackmail money had been paid for their lives.
And a deal to free two French journalists is being treated with caution now. French official says a third party negotiated the deal with an Iraqi militant group that's been holding the pair since the 21st of August.
Finally, four of six Egyptian telecommunication workers were freed yesterday.
HEMMER: Almost 14 minutes past the hour.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COLLINS: Still to come, a new theory in the double-murder trial of Scott Peterson. The defense offers a new take on how Laci Peterson was killed. We'll look at how it could clear Scott's name.
HEMMER: Also, picking a candidate while picking up the pieces, how Mother Nature has complicated Florida politics even more this year.
And could American Taliban fighter John Walker Lindh be getting out of prison early? We'll talk with Jeff Toobin about that, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Lawyers for American-born Taliban John Walker Lindh are asking President Bush to commute his 20-year prison sentence. Walker Lindh, you'll recall, was captured in Afghanistan and later pleaded guilty to aiding the Taliban government. Attorneys claim his case is similar to that of Yaser Hamdi, another U.S. citizen seized in Afghanistan who is being released from prison.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES BROSNAHAN, ATTY. FOR JOHN WALKER LINDH: Mr. Hamdi and Mr. Lindh were found in the same place and surrendered to the Northern Alliance. Mr. Hamdi and Mr. Lindh did not fight American troops at any time, never, ever did they do that. It seems to us as a matter of justice, and if I may use the word, compassion, for the president to consider reducing John Lindh's sentence.
COLLINS: So what kind of case is there for an appeal? Well, senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin is with us now to discuss just that.
First of all, though, Jeff, how comparable are these two cases, of Yaser Hamdi and John Walker Lindh?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, we don't really know for sure, because the facts behind Yaser Hamdi's arrests have never really been made public. He's never been tried in a courtroom. And one of the reasons he's being released, apparently, is that there is no critical legal case to be made against him. Yes, it's true both were arrested, or seized, helping the Taliban in Afghanistan.
But beyond that, in terms of what Hamdi was precisely doing there, we don't know. Lindh, we now know, was working for the Taliban, not fighting American troops, but we have a better sense of what he was doing.
COLLINS: So then probably just as hard to say whether or not this is going to happen, whether or not his sentence will be reduced.
TOOBIN: No, I think it's very easy to say that there's no way President Bush is going to do this. President Bush, the last thing in the world John Walker Lindh is going to get is a reduction in sentence from President Bush. However, I think Mr. Brosnahan, the lawyer, is laying the groundwork for down the road. Remember, this is a 20-year sentence. There are several presidents who will take office during his term in office and -- I mean during his time in prison. One of them may decide, you know, enough is enough, comparable fairness dictates that he be released.
COLLINS: Well, then you bring up the question, how rare is it that you actually go directly to the president to ask for something like this?
TOOBIN: Well, what's interesting here is that his legal case is over; there is no way to ask the court to reduce his sentence. So his only hope is for a commutation or pardon from the president. There is an Office of Pardon Affairs in the Justice Department. It happens occasionally. Remember, President Clinton famously pardoned a whole bunch of people right before he left office. But I think this is not really an effort by Brosnahan to get President Bush to pardon John Walker Lindh, because that's not going to happen, but maybe the next president, four years from now, eight years from now, whenever it is, to a have a little more of a sense of rough justice with the other people captured in Afghanistan.
COLLINS: Do you think it has anything to do with 34 days until the election? Is that why you're so adamant?
TOOBIN: I mean, that's one reason, but John Walker Lindh, there's just no way President Bush is going to have the remotest sympathy for him. So there's no way he's going to do it. But I do think raising the issue of fairness is a good idea down the road for perhaps a reduction of sentence, you know, at some point.
COLLINS: We will see this again come up in the courts?
TOOBIN: We will, indeed.
COLLINS: All right, thanks so much, Jeff Toobin, as always -- Bill.
HEMMER: Heidi, a stunning announcement by the man at the head of Delta Airlines.
Andy "Minding Your Business," checks in now.
A stunner, huh?
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Yes, good morning to you, Bill.
Interesting. How many times over the past couple years have we seen job cuts by big companies. And who gets the brunt of it? Of course it's the unions, the salaried employees. But now Delta Airlines announcing to CEO Gerald Grinstein that a 10 percent paycut will be felt by executives, executives of the company taking a 10 percent paycut, including Mr. Grinstein himself. He's going to be forgoing $125,000 of his salary. Quite an example for the pilots union.
HEMMER: That it is, yes, setting an example for them as they continue to get these negotiations and try and get that ship right again with Delta.
U.S. Air has more new today, too.
SERWER: Yes, the same kind of deal here as well, Bill. Executive payroll going to be cut by 20 percent at that company in Chapter 11 right now, reducing the pay of 3,000 managers. And you know, it's about time, because you can't just have the union employees, the salary people, feeling the pinch without the people in the cockpit. Of course some of the airline executives actually got raises during these periods.
HEMMER: Makes you wonder.
SERWER: Doesn't work.
HEMMER: Thank you, Andy.
SERWER: You're welcome.
HEMMER: Get a break here in a moment. Hurricanes have left much of Florida in disarray, but they've also made some problems for the men running for president. Back in a moment here on AMERICAN MORNING, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Time now for "The Cafferty File," and the question of the day from Jack -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: There you. Thank you, Heidi.
Hundreds of schools around the country trying to figure out what to do about the little gremlins and their cell phones. Critics say that they are a distraction for the students, that the students abuse their use by cheating on tests with them and straying from their work. It's probably the kind of thing we would have done if we had cell phones when we were in school.
But some parents say they want to be able to get in touch with their kids at all times? Why? During the last few years, enjoy the fact that they're away at school. States and counties have fought about what to do about the cell phone problem. Carrying a cell phone in school in Florida carries a 10-day suspension. Carrying one in Louisiana could mean 30 days in jail. That's a tough place, Louisiana. Other states are leaving the decision up to the individual counties.
So the question is this, what should the restrictions be on cell phones in the schools?
Whatever happened to this -- am@CNN. Whatever happened to this idea if you have an emergency, you call the school and say, please, go tell Johnny to call me on his lunch hour because the goldfish died, or whatever the...
COLLINS: I think it's what happens after the school once they leave. They've to have them with them so that when they leave after the school...
CAFFERTY: Well, so when you get to school in the morning, you check the cell phones, just like if it was a knife, or a gun. And you pick the little cell phone up when you leave the school property at the end of the school day. And in the meantime, just go to school, try to learn to read and write, you know, stuff like that.
COLLINS: That you do at school.
CAFFERTY: Huh?
COLLINS: Stuff that you do at school.
CAFFERTY: That you're supposed to do at school.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.
Wednesday morning dose of "90-Second Pop" coming up here in just a moment.
Daytime diva Star Jones gets ready to take the trip down the aisle. Why do some say she's turned into a bride-zilla. Plus, critics have some surprising thing to say about "Wife Swap." Stay with us, on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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