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Post-Debate Poll Gives Win to Kerry; Assault on Samarra Continues with Reports of 109 Insurgents Killed
Aired October 01, 2004 - 08:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Iraq was not even close to the center of the war on terror before the invaded it.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What my opponent wants you to forget is that he voted to authorize the use of force and now says it's the wrong war at the wrong time at the wrong place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: The debate is over. Now it's time for the campaigns to sell Americans on who won.
We're already getting the first reaction from voters.
More than 100 insurgents killed in the Iraqi city of Samarra in an all out offensive by U.S. and Iraqi troops.
And doctors fixing a heart flutter in Prime Minister Tony Blair. Sanjay Gupta tells us what they must do on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING.
COLLINS: Good Friday morning, once again, everybody.
Supporters of President Bush and Senator John Kerry see nothing but the good in what their candidate said last night in the first debate. We've got complete coverage for you, of course, this morning. In fact, Bill Hemmer is in Columbus, Ohio, where he watched the debate with a group of independent voters.
This was great, Bill.
What did you pick up from them?
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We picked up a lot, actually, especially the difference in the genders, too. Women were largely in favor of George Bush for the first half of this debate. They shifted to John Kerry. They came back to George Bush at the end. Overall, we think we got a tie, actually. We're not quite sure, Heidi, how that helps the argument, but that's what we gathered with our little group here last night in Columbus, Ohio.
Ohio is so important for the White House this year. Twenty electoral votes. In fact, no Republican has ever won the White House without winning here in the Buckeye State.
And today the spin rooms are in full force. In a moment, we'll check in with John King with the Bush campaign, Frank Buckley with the Kerry campaign, trying to figure out now the day after how each campaign is framing the arguments and the debates from last night. So we will have all that for you in a matter of moments here in Columbus -- Heidi, back to you now in New York.
COLLINS: OK, great.
Thanks a lot, Bill.
And also this morning, what's brewing underneath Mount St. Helens? We'll look at the increasing signs that an eruption may be coming and whether the area is in any serious danger. Yikes! It looks like it's pretty steamy, that's for sure.
Jack Cafferty now joining us -- good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Heidi.
Coming up in the "Cafferty File" in a little less than an hour, we're going to have a quiz, something a little different this day. What we want to do is see if you can tell the Republicans from the Democrats. And we hope you'll tune in for that at about 8:50 or thereabouts.
COLLINS: OK, you have meters to pass out, too, for people to...
CAFFERTY: We're going to push your buttons.
COLLINS: OK. We look forward to that.
All right, Jack, thanks so much.
We want to take a moment now to check on the stories now in the news once again with Rick Sanchez this morning -- hey, Rick.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Heidi, while many of us were watching the debates last night here Stateside, there was a very important story unfolding in Iraq on an international level. We're going to begin there, in the Iraqi city of Samarra. U.S. and Iraqi security forces are engaged in the largest military operation seen there in months. Gunfire is ripping and massive fighting, as troops and insurgents battle for control of the city. At least 110 people were killed, including an American soldier.
There is a remote chance that hundreds of patients at a prestigious hospital have been exposed to a deadly brain disease. The probable case is Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease. It has been found in a patient of Emory University Hospital Center in Atlanta. Other patients may have been exposed to the disease through surgical equipment. Creutzfeldt-Jakob is not a variant of mad cow disease, we should mention.
More details in the Kobe Bryant sexual assault case are being made public. The sheriff's department says it's going to release previously sealed documents and evidence from the case today. Specifics could include Bryant's interview transcript, witnesses statements and investigation records. Attorneys are going to remove the victim's name before the release.
Scientists are warning that Mount St. Helens could erupt any time now. Geologists say tiny earthquakes are rocking the mountain three to four times every minute. Measurements also show that lava activity has picked up since Monday, a story that we will no doubt follow throughout the course of the day.
Yesterday, Bill Hemmer was in south Florida, where the humidity was probably above 100. Today he's in Ohio, where we're seeing his breath. What a difference a day makes -- Bill, to you.
HEMMER: Yes, we are.
The first of October, Rick. It's coming.
Thanks for that.
Back here in Columbus, Ohio now, last night John Kerry and George Bush going head to head in debate number one. Iraq dominated the news last night and the talk here in Columbus, Ohio.
There were few, if any, harsh words, but plenty of accusations and rebuttals.
A CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll flash poll taken last night right after that debate gave John Kerry a clear edge. When those surveyed were asked who did the best last night, 53 percent said John Kerry, 37 percent said George Bush.
Asked if their opinion of the candidates changed, 46 percent gave a more favorable view of Senator Kerry, 21 percent said they had a more favorable view of President Bush. 13 percent said their view of Kerry was less favorable, 17 percent a less favorable opinion of the president. Also, 41 percent reported no change at all in their opinion of the Massachusetts senator. 62 percent say the debate made no change in their view of the president.
Again, this is just round one. There are two more to go, one in St. Louis a week from tonight. Then after that one, you have one in the American Southwest.
Next Tuesday night, the focus comes back to Ohio yet again, because Dick Cheney and John Edwards square off in their one and only debate in Cleveland, Ohio.
With that as a backdrop, we want to get you down to Miami, Florida; also, Tampa, Florida, as well.
John King is with the Bush campaign today and Frank Buckley is with the Kerry camp.
Let's start with John -- John, good morning to you. JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Bill.
Bush campaign aides concede that if you look at this from a debate scoring system, that John Kerry probably did win the debate last night. They insist, though, that they do not think John Kerry scored the key political points he needed to make to erase the president's edge.
When votes were asked who do you trust more to handle the situation in Iraq and who do you trust more to handle the broader war on terrorism.
Now, the president's strategy was crystal clear from the outset. He took every opportunity to make his case that Senator Kerry has vacillated, that he has repeatedly changed his positions, especially whether it comes to on the issue of whether it was right to go to war in Iraq. The president saying again and again that that is not how a commander-in-chief acts, that that is the wrong signal to send to the troops and a wrong signal to send to the world. The president at one point even said that because Senator Kerry, in his view, has changed his opinion on the war so much that he would fail at the one mission Senator Kerry says is critical -- bringing more allies into Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: So what's the message going to be? Please join us in Iraq for a grand diversion? Join us for a war that is the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time? I know how these people think. I deal with them all the time. I sit down with the world leaders frequently and talk to them on the phone frequently. They're not going to follow somebody who says this is the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time. They're not going to follow somebody whose core convictions keep changing because of politics in America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KERRY: Now, straight from the debate to a rally in the Miami area, President Bush much more relaxed at that rally. He said he enjoyed the debate. He said he was looking forward to the other debates, immediately saying that John Kerry would raise your taxes. Look for that line to be repeated frequently in the debate when we get around to domestic politics in the final debate of this season.
The president's out campaigning again today. Again, his aides say they do not believe Senator Kerry scored on those key issues, leadership and credibility to be commander-in-chief. Some Republicans, even some Bush aides, though, Bill, saying they wish he had spent a little more time explaining and defending his Iraq policy before criticizing Senator Kerry's positions -- Bill.
HEMMER: Well, they have a week now to recalibrate their message if that's what they want to do in St. Louis.
John, thanks for that.
Frank Buckley in Tampa -- Frank, good morning. FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
Kerry aides obviously saw a very different debate from their perspective. They felt that it was important to put President Bush on the defensive from the very beginning of the debate. They feel they successfully did that, specifically on the issues of the war in Iraq and the war on terror.
They believe that Senator Kerry took it to President Bush right from the beginning and at the same time made the argument successfully, in their view, that he could be a stronger commander-in- chief.
Here's a taste of the debate from Senator Kerry.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KERRY: Smart means not diverting your attention from the real war on terror in Afghanistan against Osama bin Laden and taking it off to Iraq, where the 9/11 Commission confirms there was no connection to 9/11 itself in Saddam Hussein and where the reason for going to war was weapons of mass destruction, not the removal of Saddam Hussein.
This president has made, I regret to say, a colossal error of judgment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BUCKLEY: Now, one thing that strategists wanted to do very clearly during this debate was to show that there is a clear choice between Senator Kerry and President Bush going forward. Of course, supporters at a rally immediately following the debate very supportive of Senator Kerry, believe that he did that. His aides point to the line where Senator Kerry talked about if you want to vote for President Bush, you're looking at four words, more of the same.
That is an argument that the Kerry campaign will use as they apply it to other issues moving into the domestic arena. They're going to make that pivot starting today and tomorrow. Tomorrow a major speech on the economy. They can apply that same phrase to domestic issues. If you want the choices that President Bush has made, you'll have more of the same. And clearly people who are unhappy with some of the choices will, in their view, vote for Senator Kerry if they believe that -- Bill.
HEMMER: All right, Frank, thanks for that.
Frank Buckley in Tampa.
John King across the state in Miami, Florida.
Back here in Ohio, one more note here. Ohio has been absolutely uncanny when it comes to picking the eventual winner in election races. Over the past 100 years, Ohio has selected the eventual winner every time except twice -- 1944 and 1960. As one campaign aide said, if it works in Ohio, there's a pretty good chance it works across the country. We'll see if that's true again now in 2004.
More in a moment here from the Buckeye State.
Back to New York now and Heidi Collins with more there -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Yes, wow, that was quite a while ago.
All right, Bill, thanks so much for that.
And George Farah is the executive director of the non-partisan group "Open Debates" and has been critical of the process in his book.
It's called "No Debate: How the Republican and Democratic Parties Secretly Control the Presidential Debates."
George Farah is here now to talk about what he saw last night.
You know, we did talk to you before the debate process began and you said these are really nothing more than press conferences.
GEORGE FARAH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, "OPEN DEBATES": Absolutely.
COLLINS: After last night, your thoughts now?
FARAH: I think Jim Lehrer did a decent job, in light of the format restrictions, of engaging the conversation, of having a more back and forth between the candidates. But these debates still pale in comparison to what you saw 30 years ago.
There were no follow-up questions, limited rebuttal and no surbuttal (ph) whatsoever. So the candidates were able to recite more often than they should have been minimized sound bites.
The point of these debates is to see these candidates thinking on their feet, not just presenting their issues like a policy speech. And often they were able to say their sound bites over and over again, 90 percent loss, 90 percent cost; the mixed messages; wrong war, wrong time, wrong place.
The American people deserve more substantive discussion than this.
COLLINS: Yes. Do you think they were worthless, though?
FARAH: No, of course not. These are the most important forms of education for the American voters. It's the best we've got. But that doesn't mean we can't improve them. And when you take the control of the debates out of the hands of the candidates, we can have more engaging formats, the inclusion of other voices and fundamentally a better debate, which is an actual debate.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean some people would say, as you alluded to, there was -- there were quite a few times when Jim Lehrer said all right, let's extend that, you know, 30 seconds to you and 30 seconds to you, so that there was a little bit more of impromptu discussion.
Also, we did see quite a few cutaway shots after all...
FARAH: Yes.
COLLINS: ... in order to gauge that sort of reaction. So some things were a little bit better than we thought they were going to be.
FARAH: Absolutely. I applaud the networks for having the guts to step away from the candidates' requirements and actually show those cutaway shots. They were actually quite crucial. You showed Kerry as a bit poised during the process and Bush seemed fiery and testy. And those were crucial revealing moments to the American people.
I think it's absurd to ask the American people not to be able to see the candidates for 90 minutes when they're running for the most important office in the country.
And, yes, it was absolutely -- you're absolutely right that Lehrer did engage the conversation and he used a lot of those 30 second extensions, which was important. But when the League ran the show, you had 150 seconds to answer questions, then a 75 second rebuttal, then a 75 second surbuttal, then a follow-up question. That got past the minimized sound bite and you really had more of a debate.
COLLINS: Right. OK. But if you were in charge and you were to say OK, this is how we're going to line this thing out, whether it be the first, the second or the third debate, what would be the format that you would prefer?
FARAH: We would have lengthy response times. You'd have the candidates questioning each other. In the debate last night, the candidates were actually prohibited from questioning each other. We'd have rebuttals and surbuttals and you wouldn't have a very formulaic structure. You wouldn't have 120 seconds, 90 seconds and 30 seconds, because you can't extend the discussion.
There were moments in last night's debates where clearly the candidates were hampered by their own format restrictions. They wanted to go forward. They wanted to continue the conversation. But Lehrer was required to cut them off and move on to the next question. And we're going to feel these restrictions more in the next debate, in the domestic debate, where there's a far more diversity of issues. We're going to have 60 second response times to address critical domestic issues and the American people are going to feel left as if most of their questions weren't answered.
COLLINS: Do you think, though, that by making these debates longer, again, if that was your choice, if you were to run these type of debates, that people would stay tuned, that people would be interested?
FARAH: I think they would be interested. But it's, to me, it's less about actually lightning the debates themselves than changing the structure so that the candidate isn't able just to prepare seven days in advance with his handlers and recite those responses. These guys aren't supposed to be delivering minimized responses like a bipartisan press conference. They're supposed to be thinking. They're running for the most powerful office in the world, which is a high stakes situation. They have to think on their feet. Why can't we see them thinking on their feet in the debate? We saw a couple moments like that last night.
COLLINS: Right.
FARAH: But the most revealing time was when they were talking about their daughters, unfortunately, rather than Iraq itself.
COLLINS: It was a nice moment.
FARAH: It was a nice moment.
COLLINS: All right, George Farah, executive director of Open Debates.
Thanks for your thoughts this morning.
FARAH: Thank you very much for having me.
COLLINS: And the next debate, as you probably know, will be on Tuesday in Cleveland. That's going to be when the vice presidential candidates square off. The next presidential debate, though, next Friday, October 8, in St. Louis.
And still to come this morning, the first debate in the books. Now it's time for "Gimme A Minute" panel to square off. We're going to find out what they say about who won the debate.
Also ahead, watching and waiting -- how the locals are reacting to the news that Mount St. Helens may be ready to blow.
Plus, U.S. and Iraqi forces bring the hammer down on a militant stronghold. We'll ask one Iraqi official why it's happening now, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: British Prime Minister Tony Blair went to the hospital for a routine procedure on his heart today. The prime minister said yesterday that he was going to have a flutter corrected and that he would be back at work on Monday. He also said he would run for a third term.
I spoke with Blair biographer Peter Stothard earlier this morning.
He says criticism over the war in Iraq will not stop the British leader.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER STOTHARD, BLAIR BIOGRAPHER: Tony Blair did it his way in backing George Bush. Everybody hated it. Everybody around him hated it. Huge numbers of people in Britain hated it. He did it his way. However, he thought he was right. He still thinks he's right. He didn't really make much of an apology and I think this announcement yesterday about his health, the sudden announcement about his future plans, was just another sign of Tony Blair saying look, you know, I've been here a long time, I'm very experienced, on the whole when I do it my way, we get it right.
And this was him doing it his way again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: If Tony Blair is reelected next year, he could be prime minister until 2010. Then, he says, he will retire from politics.
U.S. and Iraqi forces pounded insurgent strongholds in the city of Samarra and so far there are reports that 109 insurgents have been killed. You see some of the video here. One American soldier also dead.
The intense fighting is taking place around a Shiite mosque within the Sunni Triangle city.
The Iraqi representative to the United States, Rend Al-Rahim, she is joining us this morning from our Washington bureau.
Thanks for being with us.
REND AL-RAHIM, IRAQI REPRESENTATIVE TO THE U.S.: Thank you.
COLLINS: I want to go back to one of our correspondents this morning, Jane Arraf, who is stationed in that area in Baghdad and has reported to us this morning about Samarra, saying, you know, this is just an all out assault.
Why now in Samarra?
AL-RAHIM: Heidi, the Iraqi government has repeatedly expressed its determination to pacify certain cities that have terrorists in them, to clean them out, to bring them under government control and bring law and order. And that is especially in view of the upcoming elections in January.
We are beginning with the election process. Voter registration begins in October. These pockets of terrorism must be cleared out if we are going to succeed in our elections.
COLLINS: We have just finished the month of September, which was just an absolutely tragic month as far as these car bombings are concerned.
AL-RAHIM: Indeed.
COLLINS: Will this type of crackdown help? Will it really make any headway in these sort of scenarios?
AL-RAHIM: Oh, yes. It must, because some of these cities are the wasps' nests of terrorism. This is where terrorist activities are organized, plotted, funded and then exported to the rest of Iraq. We need to hone in on those nests of terrorism and nip them in the bud and clear those cities. And that will bring greater peace and stability throughout Iraq, because these places are net exporters of terrorism to the rest of the country.
COLLINS: When will it be that Iraqis themselves will stand up and say enough is enough, especially when we see what happened yesterday with a car bombing that killed, as we know it now, 34 children? Is this going to be something that will motivate them to say just that?
AL-RAHIM: You know, Heidi, if you read the press this morning, even the American press, Iraqis have already started saying enough is enough. They're already saying that this is terrorism, this is not resistance, this is not insurgency. These are terrorists who are enemies of the Iraqi people and the evidence is that they target children and killed 34 children in one morning.
The Iraqis are beginning to turn against this. And, by the way, this started some time ago, not just with this latest bombing.
But I think this is snowballing and the reaction of the Iraqi people is escalating against terrorism.
COLLINS: It certainly has started way earlier, just the difference, of course, yesterday with the children being involved.
AL-RAHIM: Yes. It was horrible.
COLLINS: I think we haven't quite seen images out of there, just horrendous.
Now, Prime Minister Allawi also said that most Iraqis will be able to vote come January. But he used the word most.
Is most going to be enough?
AL-RAHIM: I think what the Iraqi government is committed to is to provide every Iraqi eligible to vote with the opportunity to actually cast a vote and express their political preference freely and safely. This is the Iraqi government's commitment.
I think it is premature to start judging four months ahead of time the quality of these elections, how they're going to be held, what places will vote and will not. I think it's far too early. We are focused on giving that opportunity to every single Iraqi and this relates back to the issue of getting the terrorists out of cities like Samarra and Fallujah and other places.
Our commitment is to provide that opportunity to every eligible Iraqi.
COLLINS: All right, Rend Al-Rahim, we certainly appreciate your time this morning.
AL-RAHIM: Thank you very much. COLLINS: Thank you.
AL-RAHIM: Thank you.
COLLINS: We want to take you to Miami now, quickly, where President Bush boarded Air Force One just a few moments ago. You see him waving there. He is headed now for Pennsylvania and New Hampshire today. He'll be back at the White House later on tonight.
And still to come this morning, we'll tell you how Michael Jackson now has more time to focus on the child molestation charges he is facing.
That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Jack's here once again with The Question of the Day about the debates.
CAFFERTY: I was clicking around through all of those late night shows on the cable networks. I think it was Howard Fineman of "Newsweek" magazine who said President Bush showed up with 35 minutes worth of material for a 90 minute debate. Arguably not the president's finest moment.
The question we're fiddling with this morning is do you think the candidates are delivering the right message when it comes to the war in Iraq?
Jay in New York writes: "I've never written to a TV show before, but I felt compelled by John Kerry's performance on the debate last night. Kerry seemed in control of the facts, while Bush seemed tired and confused. Kerry mentioned a plan for Iraq, while Bush had nothing to say but more of the same. It was all very refreshing."
Victoria in Brunswick, Maine: "President Bush continues to live in denial about the progress in Iraq. What did he think would happen without a real plan for the post-war period? Senator Kerry has got it right. We need change and we need it soon."
Suzy writes: "I, too, think Kerry did well last night, and since I'm a Bush supporter, that should say something. But the most important thing that Bush said, and the takeaway for me, is something that I have thought about for a while. As Americans, we must show the world, both our coalition and our enemies, one face and support for our effort."
COLLINS: And many people saying this morning, now, too, it was actually -- possibly more important than what we heard was what we saw when we got to see those reaction shots to how each other responded.
CAFFERTY: Yes, there were some upgraded moments, little Kodak moments, as they say.
COLLINS: Yes, you've got that right. CAFFERTY: Very revealing.
COLLINS: All right, Jack, thanks for that.
CAFFERTY: Sure.
COLLINS: Still to come this morning, last night's debate in the books, as we've said. But now our "Gimme A Minute" panel gets a chance to duke it out over who won the first round.
Plus, thousands of earthquakes and aftershocks near Mount St. Helens. Residents there wondering whether it could be 1980 all over again, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired October 1, 2004 - 08:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Iraq was not even close to the center of the war on terror before the invaded it.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What my opponent wants you to forget is that he voted to authorize the use of force and now says it's the wrong war at the wrong time at the wrong place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: The debate is over. Now it's time for the campaigns to sell Americans on who won.
We're already getting the first reaction from voters.
More than 100 insurgents killed in the Iraqi city of Samarra in an all out offensive by U.S. and Iraqi troops.
And doctors fixing a heart flutter in Prime Minister Tony Blair. Sanjay Gupta tells us what they must do on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING.
COLLINS: Good Friday morning, once again, everybody.
Supporters of President Bush and Senator John Kerry see nothing but the good in what their candidate said last night in the first debate. We've got complete coverage for you, of course, this morning. In fact, Bill Hemmer is in Columbus, Ohio, where he watched the debate with a group of independent voters.
This was great, Bill.
What did you pick up from them?
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We picked up a lot, actually, especially the difference in the genders, too. Women were largely in favor of George Bush for the first half of this debate. They shifted to John Kerry. They came back to George Bush at the end. Overall, we think we got a tie, actually. We're not quite sure, Heidi, how that helps the argument, but that's what we gathered with our little group here last night in Columbus, Ohio.
Ohio is so important for the White House this year. Twenty electoral votes. In fact, no Republican has ever won the White House without winning here in the Buckeye State.
And today the spin rooms are in full force. In a moment, we'll check in with John King with the Bush campaign, Frank Buckley with the Kerry campaign, trying to figure out now the day after how each campaign is framing the arguments and the debates from last night. So we will have all that for you in a matter of moments here in Columbus -- Heidi, back to you now in New York.
COLLINS: OK, great.
Thanks a lot, Bill.
And also this morning, what's brewing underneath Mount St. Helens? We'll look at the increasing signs that an eruption may be coming and whether the area is in any serious danger. Yikes! It looks like it's pretty steamy, that's for sure.
Jack Cafferty now joining us -- good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Heidi.
Coming up in the "Cafferty File" in a little less than an hour, we're going to have a quiz, something a little different this day. What we want to do is see if you can tell the Republicans from the Democrats. And we hope you'll tune in for that at about 8:50 or thereabouts.
COLLINS: OK, you have meters to pass out, too, for people to...
CAFFERTY: We're going to push your buttons.
COLLINS: OK. We look forward to that.
All right, Jack, thanks so much.
We want to take a moment now to check on the stories now in the news once again with Rick Sanchez this morning -- hey, Rick.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Heidi, while many of us were watching the debates last night here Stateside, there was a very important story unfolding in Iraq on an international level. We're going to begin there, in the Iraqi city of Samarra. U.S. and Iraqi security forces are engaged in the largest military operation seen there in months. Gunfire is ripping and massive fighting, as troops and insurgents battle for control of the city. At least 110 people were killed, including an American soldier.
There is a remote chance that hundreds of patients at a prestigious hospital have been exposed to a deadly brain disease. The probable case is Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease. It has been found in a patient of Emory University Hospital Center in Atlanta. Other patients may have been exposed to the disease through surgical equipment. Creutzfeldt-Jakob is not a variant of mad cow disease, we should mention.
More details in the Kobe Bryant sexual assault case are being made public. The sheriff's department says it's going to release previously sealed documents and evidence from the case today. Specifics could include Bryant's interview transcript, witnesses statements and investigation records. Attorneys are going to remove the victim's name before the release.
Scientists are warning that Mount St. Helens could erupt any time now. Geologists say tiny earthquakes are rocking the mountain three to four times every minute. Measurements also show that lava activity has picked up since Monday, a story that we will no doubt follow throughout the course of the day.
Yesterday, Bill Hemmer was in south Florida, where the humidity was probably above 100. Today he's in Ohio, where we're seeing his breath. What a difference a day makes -- Bill, to you.
HEMMER: Yes, we are.
The first of October, Rick. It's coming.
Thanks for that.
Back here in Columbus, Ohio now, last night John Kerry and George Bush going head to head in debate number one. Iraq dominated the news last night and the talk here in Columbus, Ohio.
There were few, if any, harsh words, but plenty of accusations and rebuttals.
A CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll flash poll taken last night right after that debate gave John Kerry a clear edge. When those surveyed were asked who did the best last night, 53 percent said John Kerry, 37 percent said George Bush.
Asked if their opinion of the candidates changed, 46 percent gave a more favorable view of Senator Kerry, 21 percent said they had a more favorable view of President Bush. 13 percent said their view of Kerry was less favorable, 17 percent a less favorable opinion of the president. Also, 41 percent reported no change at all in their opinion of the Massachusetts senator. 62 percent say the debate made no change in their view of the president.
Again, this is just round one. There are two more to go, one in St. Louis a week from tonight. Then after that one, you have one in the American Southwest.
Next Tuesday night, the focus comes back to Ohio yet again, because Dick Cheney and John Edwards square off in their one and only debate in Cleveland, Ohio.
With that as a backdrop, we want to get you down to Miami, Florida; also, Tampa, Florida, as well.
John King is with the Bush campaign today and Frank Buckley is with the Kerry camp.
Let's start with John -- John, good morning to you. JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Bill.
Bush campaign aides concede that if you look at this from a debate scoring system, that John Kerry probably did win the debate last night. They insist, though, that they do not think John Kerry scored the key political points he needed to make to erase the president's edge.
When votes were asked who do you trust more to handle the situation in Iraq and who do you trust more to handle the broader war on terrorism.
Now, the president's strategy was crystal clear from the outset. He took every opportunity to make his case that Senator Kerry has vacillated, that he has repeatedly changed his positions, especially whether it comes to on the issue of whether it was right to go to war in Iraq. The president saying again and again that that is not how a commander-in-chief acts, that that is the wrong signal to send to the troops and a wrong signal to send to the world. The president at one point even said that because Senator Kerry, in his view, has changed his opinion on the war so much that he would fail at the one mission Senator Kerry says is critical -- bringing more allies into Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: So what's the message going to be? Please join us in Iraq for a grand diversion? Join us for a war that is the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time? I know how these people think. I deal with them all the time. I sit down with the world leaders frequently and talk to them on the phone frequently. They're not going to follow somebody who says this is the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time. They're not going to follow somebody whose core convictions keep changing because of politics in America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KERRY: Now, straight from the debate to a rally in the Miami area, President Bush much more relaxed at that rally. He said he enjoyed the debate. He said he was looking forward to the other debates, immediately saying that John Kerry would raise your taxes. Look for that line to be repeated frequently in the debate when we get around to domestic politics in the final debate of this season.
The president's out campaigning again today. Again, his aides say they do not believe Senator Kerry scored on those key issues, leadership and credibility to be commander-in-chief. Some Republicans, even some Bush aides, though, Bill, saying they wish he had spent a little more time explaining and defending his Iraq policy before criticizing Senator Kerry's positions -- Bill.
HEMMER: Well, they have a week now to recalibrate their message if that's what they want to do in St. Louis.
John, thanks for that.
Frank Buckley in Tampa -- Frank, good morning. FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
Kerry aides obviously saw a very different debate from their perspective. They felt that it was important to put President Bush on the defensive from the very beginning of the debate. They feel they successfully did that, specifically on the issues of the war in Iraq and the war on terror.
They believe that Senator Kerry took it to President Bush right from the beginning and at the same time made the argument successfully, in their view, that he could be a stronger commander-in- chief.
Here's a taste of the debate from Senator Kerry.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KERRY: Smart means not diverting your attention from the real war on terror in Afghanistan against Osama bin Laden and taking it off to Iraq, where the 9/11 Commission confirms there was no connection to 9/11 itself in Saddam Hussein and where the reason for going to war was weapons of mass destruction, not the removal of Saddam Hussein.
This president has made, I regret to say, a colossal error of judgment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BUCKLEY: Now, one thing that strategists wanted to do very clearly during this debate was to show that there is a clear choice between Senator Kerry and President Bush going forward. Of course, supporters at a rally immediately following the debate very supportive of Senator Kerry, believe that he did that. His aides point to the line where Senator Kerry talked about if you want to vote for President Bush, you're looking at four words, more of the same.
That is an argument that the Kerry campaign will use as they apply it to other issues moving into the domestic arena. They're going to make that pivot starting today and tomorrow. Tomorrow a major speech on the economy. They can apply that same phrase to domestic issues. If you want the choices that President Bush has made, you'll have more of the same. And clearly people who are unhappy with some of the choices will, in their view, vote for Senator Kerry if they believe that -- Bill.
HEMMER: All right, Frank, thanks for that.
Frank Buckley in Tampa.
John King across the state in Miami, Florida.
Back here in Ohio, one more note here. Ohio has been absolutely uncanny when it comes to picking the eventual winner in election races. Over the past 100 years, Ohio has selected the eventual winner every time except twice -- 1944 and 1960. As one campaign aide said, if it works in Ohio, there's a pretty good chance it works across the country. We'll see if that's true again now in 2004.
More in a moment here from the Buckeye State.
Back to New York now and Heidi Collins with more there -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Yes, wow, that was quite a while ago.
All right, Bill, thanks so much for that.
And George Farah is the executive director of the non-partisan group "Open Debates" and has been critical of the process in his book.
It's called "No Debate: How the Republican and Democratic Parties Secretly Control the Presidential Debates."
George Farah is here now to talk about what he saw last night.
You know, we did talk to you before the debate process began and you said these are really nothing more than press conferences.
GEORGE FARAH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, "OPEN DEBATES": Absolutely.
COLLINS: After last night, your thoughts now?
FARAH: I think Jim Lehrer did a decent job, in light of the format restrictions, of engaging the conversation, of having a more back and forth between the candidates. But these debates still pale in comparison to what you saw 30 years ago.
There were no follow-up questions, limited rebuttal and no surbuttal (ph) whatsoever. So the candidates were able to recite more often than they should have been minimized sound bites.
The point of these debates is to see these candidates thinking on their feet, not just presenting their issues like a policy speech. And often they were able to say their sound bites over and over again, 90 percent loss, 90 percent cost; the mixed messages; wrong war, wrong time, wrong place.
The American people deserve more substantive discussion than this.
COLLINS: Yes. Do you think they were worthless, though?
FARAH: No, of course not. These are the most important forms of education for the American voters. It's the best we've got. But that doesn't mean we can't improve them. And when you take the control of the debates out of the hands of the candidates, we can have more engaging formats, the inclusion of other voices and fundamentally a better debate, which is an actual debate.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean some people would say, as you alluded to, there was -- there were quite a few times when Jim Lehrer said all right, let's extend that, you know, 30 seconds to you and 30 seconds to you, so that there was a little bit more of impromptu discussion.
Also, we did see quite a few cutaway shots after all...
FARAH: Yes.
COLLINS: ... in order to gauge that sort of reaction. So some things were a little bit better than we thought they were going to be.
FARAH: Absolutely. I applaud the networks for having the guts to step away from the candidates' requirements and actually show those cutaway shots. They were actually quite crucial. You showed Kerry as a bit poised during the process and Bush seemed fiery and testy. And those were crucial revealing moments to the American people.
I think it's absurd to ask the American people not to be able to see the candidates for 90 minutes when they're running for the most important office in the country.
And, yes, it was absolutely -- you're absolutely right that Lehrer did engage the conversation and he used a lot of those 30 second extensions, which was important. But when the League ran the show, you had 150 seconds to answer questions, then a 75 second rebuttal, then a 75 second surbuttal, then a follow-up question. That got past the minimized sound bite and you really had more of a debate.
COLLINS: Right. OK. But if you were in charge and you were to say OK, this is how we're going to line this thing out, whether it be the first, the second or the third debate, what would be the format that you would prefer?
FARAH: We would have lengthy response times. You'd have the candidates questioning each other. In the debate last night, the candidates were actually prohibited from questioning each other. We'd have rebuttals and surbuttals and you wouldn't have a very formulaic structure. You wouldn't have 120 seconds, 90 seconds and 30 seconds, because you can't extend the discussion.
There were moments in last night's debates where clearly the candidates were hampered by their own format restrictions. They wanted to go forward. They wanted to continue the conversation. But Lehrer was required to cut them off and move on to the next question. And we're going to feel these restrictions more in the next debate, in the domestic debate, where there's a far more diversity of issues. We're going to have 60 second response times to address critical domestic issues and the American people are going to feel left as if most of their questions weren't answered.
COLLINS: Do you think, though, that by making these debates longer, again, if that was your choice, if you were to run these type of debates, that people would stay tuned, that people would be interested?
FARAH: I think they would be interested. But it's, to me, it's less about actually lightning the debates themselves than changing the structure so that the candidate isn't able just to prepare seven days in advance with his handlers and recite those responses. These guys aren't supposed to be delivering minimized responses like a bipartisan press conference. They're supposed to be thinking. They're running for the most powerful office in the world, which is a high stakes situation. They have to think on their feet. Why can't we see them thinking on their feet in the debate? We saw a couple moments like that last night.
COLLINS: Right.
FARAH: But the most revealing time was when they were talking about their daughters, unfortunately, rather than Iraq itself.
COLLINS: It was a nice moment.
FARAH: It was a nice moment.
COLLINS: All right, George Farah, executive director of Open Debates.
Thanks for your thoughts this morning.
FARAH: Thank you very much for having me.
COLLINS: And the next debate, as you probably know, will be on Tuesday in Cleveland. That's going to be when the vice presidential candidates square off. The next presidential debate, though, next Friday, October 8, in St. Louis.
And still to come this morning, the first debate in the books. Now it's time for "Gimme A Minute" panel to square off. We're going to find out what they say about who won the debate.
Also ahead, watching and waiting -- how the locals are reacting to the news that Mount St. Helens may be ready to blow.
Plus, U.S. and Iraqi forces bring the hammer down on a militant stronghold. We'll ask one Iraqi official why it's happening now, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
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COLLINS: British Prime Minister Tony Blair went to the hospital for a routine procedure on his heart today. The prime minister said yesterday that he was going to have a flutter corrected and that he would be back at work on Monday. He also said he would run for a third term.
I spoke with Blair biographer Peter Stothard earlier this morning.
He says criticism over the war in Iraq will not stop the British leader.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER STOTHARD, BLAIR BIOGRAPHER: Tony Blair did it his way in backing George Bush. Everybody hated it. Everybody around him hated it. Huge numbers of people in Britain hated it. He did it his way. However, he thought he was right. He still thinks he's right. He didn't really make much of an apology and I think this announcement yesterday about his health, the sudden announcement about his future plans, was just another sign of Tony Blair saying look, you know, I've been here a long time, I'm very experienced, on the whole when I do it my way, we get it right.
And this was him doing it his way again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: If Tony Blair is reelected next year, he could be prime minister until 2010. Then, he says, he will retire from politics.
U.S. and Iraqi forces pounded insurgent strongholds in the city of Samarra and so far there are reports that 109 insurgents have been killed. You see some of the video here. One American soldier also dead.
The intense fighting is taking place around a Shiite mosque within the Sunni Triangle city.
The Iraqi representative to the United States, Rend Al-Rahim, she is joining us this morning from our Washington bureau.
Thanks for being with us.
REND AL-RAHIM, IRAQI REPRESENTATIVE TO THE U.S.: Thank you.
COLLINS: I want to go back to one of our correspondents this morning, Jane Arraf, who is stationed in that area in Baghdad and has reported to us this morning about Samarra, saying, you know, this is just an all out assault.
Why now in Samarra?
AL-RAHIM: Heidi, the Iraqi government has repeatedly expressed its determination to pacify certain cities that have terrorists in them, to clean them out, to bring them under government control and bring law and order. And that is especially in view of the upcoming elections in January.
We are beginning with the election process. Voter registration begins in October. These pockets of terrorism must be cleared out if we are going to succeed in our elections.
COLLINS: We have just finished the month of September, which was just an absolutely tragic month as far as these car bombings are concerned.
AL-RAHIM: Indeed.
COLLINS: Will this type of crackdown help? Will it really make any headway in these sort of scenarios?
AL-RAHIM: Oh, yes. It must, because some of these cities are the wasps' nests of terrorism. This is where terrorist activities are organized, plotted, funded and then exported to the rest of Iraq. We need to hone in on those nests of terrorism and nip them in the bud and clear those cities. And that will bring greater peace and stability throughout Iraq, because these places are net exporters of terrorism to the rest of the country.
COLLINS: When will it be that Iraqis themselves will stand up and say enough is enough, especially when we see what happened yesterday with a car bombing that killed, as we know it now, 34 children? Is this going to be something that will motivate them to say just that?
AL-RAHIM: You know, Heidi, if you read the press this morning, even the American press, Iraqis have already started saying enough is enough. They're already saying that this is terrorism, this is not resistance, this is not insurgency. These are terrorists who are enemies of the Iraqi people and the evidence is that they target children and killed 34 children in one morning.
The Iraqis are beginning to turn against this. And, by the way, this started some time ago, not just with this latest bombing.
But I think this is snowballing and the reaction of the Iraqi people is escalating against terrorism.
COLLINS: It certainly has started way earlier, just the difference, of course, yesterday with the children being involved.
AL-RAHIM: Yes. It was horrible.
COLLINS: I think we haven't quite seen images out of there, just horrendous.
Now, Prime Minister Allawi also said that most Iraqis will be able to vote come January. But he used the word most.
Is most going to be enough?
AL-RAHIM: I think what the Iraqi government is committed to is to provide every Iraqi eligible to vote with the opportunity to actually cast a vote and express their political preference freely and safely. This is the Iraqi government's commitment.
I think it is premature to start judging four months ahead of time the quality of these elections, how they're going to be held, what places will vote and will not. I think it's far too early. We are focused on giving that opportunity to every single Iraqi and this relates back to the issue of getting the terrorists out of cities like Samarra and Fallujah and other places.
Our commitment is to provide that opportunity to every eligible Iraqi.
COLLINS: All right, Rend Al-Rahim, we certainly appreciate your time this morning.
AL-RAHIM: Thank you very much. COLLINS: Thank you.
AL-RAHIM: Thank you.
COLLINS: We want to take you to Miami now, quickly, where President Bush boarded Air Force One just a few moments ago. You see him waving there. He is headed now for Pennsylvania and New Hampshire today. He'll be back at the White House later on tonight.
And still to come this morning, we'll tell you how Michael Jackson now has more time to focus on the child molestation charges he is facing.
That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Jack's here once again with The Question of the Day about the debates.
CAFFERTY: I was clicking around through all of those late night shows on the cable networks. I think it was Howard Fineman of "Newsweek" magazine who said President Bush showed up with 35 minutes worth of material for a 90 minute debate. Arguably not the president's finest moment.
The question we're fiddling with this morning is do you think the candidates are delivering the right message when it comes to the war in Iraq?
Jay in New York writes: "I've never written to a TV show before, but I felt compelled by John Kerry's performance on the debate last night. Kerry seemed in control of the facts, while Bush seemed tired and confused. Kerry mentioned a plan for Iraq, while Bush had nothing to say but more of the same. It was all very refreshing."
Victoria in Brunswick, Maine: "President Bush continues to live in denial about the progress in Iraq. What did he think would happen without a real plan for the post-war period? Senator Kerry has got it right. We need change and we need it soon."
Suzy writes: "I, too, think Kerry did well last night, and since I'm a Bush supporter, that should say something. But the most important thing that Bush said, and the takeaway for me, is something that I have thought about for a while. As Americans, we must show the world, both our coalition and our enemies, one face and support for our effort."
COLLINS: And many people saying this morning, now, too, it was actually -- possibly more important than what we heard was what we saw when we got to see those reaction shots to how each other responded.
CAFFERTY: Yes, there were some upgraded moments, little Kodak moments, as they say.
COLLINS: Yes, you've got that right. CAFFERTY: Very revealing.
COLLINS: All right, Jack, thanks for that.
CAFFERTY: Sure.
COLLINS: Still to come this morning, last night's debate in the books, as we've said. But now our "Gimme A Minute" panel gets a chance to duke it out over who won the first round.
Plus, thousands of earthquakes and aftershocks near Mount St. Helens. Residents there wondering whether it could be 1980 all over again, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
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