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Vice Presidential Candidates Debate Later Tonight in Cleveland; Paul Bremer Makes Some Surprising Comments
Aired October 05, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Cheney versus Edwards, the vice presidential candidates square off on a midweek debate. Can they change the race tonight.
Surprising comments from the man who led the occupation in Iraq, Paul Bremer now saying lawlessness in the country can be traced to a lack of coalition troops on the ground.
And Elton John picks a fight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELTON JOHN, ENTERTAINER: Madonna, best (EXPLETIVE DELETED) live actress.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Sir Elton slamming Madonna in unprovoked trash talking tirade. We'll tell you what that's all about, on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: This is AMERICAN MORNING. Live from Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio, here's Bill Hemmer.
HEMMER: And good morning on this Tuesday morning. We are in Cleveland, Ohio, Case Western Reserve University, where the vice presidential candidates, Dick Cheney and John Edwards, debate later tonight. We have a whole lot to talk about this morning. Carlos Watson talks about exactly what each man must do to try to help his own boss. Also, we'll look at the differences in style and personality between Dick Cheney and John Edwards, and talk about that with Republican campaign adviser Mary Matalin and Democratic campaign adviser Joe Lockhart back with us today.
But for now, back to New York. And good morning. And my colleague Heidi Collins back there.
Heidi, good morning.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, good morning to you, Bill. We'll get back to you in just a moment.
We also want to talk about what we will have here in New York. Another man has now been indicted in the infamous shoe bomber terror plot. We'll look at the case against Saajid Mohammed Badat. Does he belong to a new generation of terrorists, one that is almost impossible for authorities to profile?
And as you know, Jack is off this week, but later on, we'll check in with Andy Borowitz for the "Question of the Day." So stick around for that.
Meanwhile, let's go ahead and begin with the stories now in the news this morning. Another U.S. soldier has been killed in Iraq. Military sources say a roadside bomb blew up next to an American convoy late last night. Two soldiers were injured in the attack.
In Baghdad, insurgents launched a number of mortar assaults. One of the targets was a key bridge. The other attack was on the Iraqi oil ministry. At least one person has been wounded.
A rescue ship is on its way to pick up a plane crash survivor drifting in the pacific ocean. A Coast Guard plane yesterday spotted the 67-year-old man some 750 miles south of Hawaii. The man was headed to American Samoa when his plane went down. A rescue ship is expected to reach him in about an hour. I bet he'll be glad.
Well, three Americans will share this year's Nobel Peace in physics. David Gross, David Politzer and Frank Wilczeck won the physics prize today for their discovery and study of strong force in quarks. Their work focused on forces inside the nucleus of an atom.
Police issued a warrant in a shooting that targeted the home of entertainers Siegfried Fischbacher and Roy Horn. Police say a gunman fired four shots at the Las Vegas house and yelled for the men to leave the country. Officials disclose tins incident almost a year exactly after Horn was mauled by a tiger. Not a good time for that.
All right, Bill, back to you now in Cleveland once again this morning.
HEMMER: All right, Heidi. Thanks for that.
John Edwards may have been handed a weapon to use against Vice President Dick Cheney later tonight in the debate in Cleveland. Former U.S. administrator in Iraq Paul Bremer now saying the administration made critical mistakes in its post-war plan. In a speech yesterday, Bremer said there were not enough troops deployed, and the violence and looting that took place when the regime fell was not contained. He said, and quoting now, "We paid a big price for not stopping it, because it established an atmosphere of lawlessness. We never had enough troops on the ground," end quote. John Kerry has been making the same criticism in his campaign. Bremer still supports, though the decision to go to war in Iraq, and he also says toppling Saddam Hussein was the right decision.
The vice presidential candidates now debate later tonight here in Cleveland, and the occasion raises a political question that seems to be debated every four years. How much do these debates, the vice presidential debate, really matter?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) HEMMER (voice-over): While vice presidential debates have typically had little impact on the presidential race, they have provided for some memorable moments.
LLOYD BENSON, FORMER VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy.
HEMMER: Lloyd Benson's knockout punch did not prevent Dan Quayle with being elected vice president in 1988. Four years later, there was this from Ross Perot's running mate.
JAMES STOCKDALE, FMR. VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Who am I? Why am I here?
(APPLAUSE)
HEMMER: While Admiral James Stockdale provided some comic relief, he also posed what may be a classic vice presidential debate question. This year, though, in a campaign so close, the No. 2s are trying hard to make a big difference. While Dick Cheney is expected to attack the Kerry/Edwards team for a lack of judgment and experience, John Edwards will be in the trial of his political career.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: So then what does each candidate need to do later tonight to claim victory in the debate? A CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll on who will do a better job in the debate gave a slight edge to the challenger, Democrat John Edwards, 42 percent to Dick Cheney's 40 percent; unsure 15 percent there at the bottom of the screen. The results were within the margin of error, though. And our political analyst Carlos Watson in Miami this morning.
Carlos, good morning to you. We did this last Thursday in Southern Florida. The three things you think each man needs to do. Start with Dick Cheney first. You just say, just win, baby. A page from Al Davis, what do you mean?
CARLOS WATSON, CNN POL. ANALYST: You know, I think at this point, Bill, it's so important in terms of momentum for Republicans to see one of their candidates win. I think John Kerry's win last Thursday in Florida really gave a shot in the arm to Democrats, and really hurt Republicans. And so first and foremost, Cheney's got to be articulate, he's got to be thoughtful and he's come across as the winner in his debate, above all else, against John Edwards.
HEMMER: Also, you say offer a critique of John Kerry. Explain that.
WATSON: So I'm saying not only is he debating John Edwards and needs to win that person-to-person debate, but needs to go forward and needs to actually help his own running mate, George Bush, and offering a stinging, a memorable, and a new critique of John Kerry, one that will still be hearing about tomorrow and Thursday, and one that, frankly, will hang in the air when Friday's presidential debate comes around.
HEMMER: Well, Halloween's a month away. Explain this one, scare but don't scare.
WATSON Got to like that one. So two sides to that point. On one hand, he's got to highlight that this is one of the most dangerous episodes, one of the most dangerous eras, if you will, in American history, post 9/11, and therefore, a certain kind of national security preparedness is needed. And on the other hand, he personally can't come across as a scary person. You know his favorability numbers have gone south in many cases over the last 24 months, and so he's got to come across as someone who is not personally going to scare those so- called security moms.
HEMMER: All right, let's go to John Edwards then. Meet the test. And it is his biggest test to date, Carlos.
WATSON: It is, although, you know, if you look at the polls and you look at his favorability numbers, it's clear that a lot of people have a great deal of affection to him. But he's got to be substantive, he's got to be thoughtful, he's got to be detailed when he talks about policy. When I say meet the test significantly, I think it is meet the test of being an able vice president, not necessarily being a ready-to-serve president.
HEMMER: And with that, offer the vision of John Kerry -- how will he do that?
WATSON: You know, this will be first debate in which we'll have a discussion of all the topics, whether it's domestic or foreign policy. And I think in a very clear and succinct way this former trial lawyer has got to be an advocate on behalf of John Kerry's ticket. So he's got to say here are the four or five special things that would happen in a Kerry administration, and he's got to do that as a very able No. 2 on the ticket.
HEMMER: I like your third one, surprise them. How does he do it?
WATSON: You know, everybody expects him to talk about domestic policy, and everyone expects him to offer a positive face. Bill, he's got to change that. One, he's got to be tougher, and he's got to offer a forceful, if you will, critique, attack, and two, he's got to do it where people don't expect, not on domestic policy, but rather on foreign policy and national security issues. And in doing that, he's to point specifically towards Vice President Cheney, towards Paul Bremer, towards Richard Clarke, President Bush and others, their specific words, actions and deeds. He's got to be a prosecutor, if you will, instead of an advocate.
HEMMER: Carlos, it's Tuesday. On Friday, we'll be in St. Louis for John Kerry and George Bush again. How much does tonight really matter?
WATSON: I think it matters in a couple of ways, Bill. First and foremost, I actually believe that as opposed to the 26 to 28 million who tuned into the last couple of vice presidential debates, we'll have north of 40 million. So that'll be a pretty meaningful audience. No. 2, I think you can see the polls move by maybe one or two points, which isn't big. But no. 3, it could frame the debate on Friday and really frame the momentum. If indeed Dick Cheney is able to offer up a Republican win, it will be a big shot in the arm, and you'll see that it will change the way a lot of people approach Friday. On the other hand, if you get a second Democratic win in a row, Kerry last week, Edwards here, you will see a tremendous amount of momentum going into the domestic policy conversation.
HEMMER: Thank you, Carlos. See you later tonight in northern Ohio. Carlos Watson in Miami so far this morning. Good to see you here.
WATSON: Stay with CNN. Live debate coverage later tonight at 7:00 eastern. The debate itself begins two hours later at 9:00 Eastern Time, lasts about 90 minutes. We'll have it all for you. Back to Heidi now in New York -- Heidi.
COLLINS: All right, Bill, thanks so much. In Colorado, a series of storms touched off nearly a dozen tornadoes within an hour. The twisters touched down yesterday northwest of Denver International Airport and also near Brighton (ph) and Greeley (ph). The tornadoes tore through a mobile home and barn, but no injuries were reported. The storm caused slight delays, though, at the airport. Some planes were rerouted.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COLLINS: Still to come now, despite opposition, Wal-Mart says it needs more space. That's ahead.
And on terrorist trail. Live to London, as officials eye another suspect in the shoe bomber case.
HEMMER: Also back here in Ohio, Heidi, who has the edge in tonight's debate. We'll hear from Mary Matalin from the Bush campaign and Joe Lockhart here in Cleveland with the Kerry camp. Stay with us. Our coverage continues, right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Paul Bremer has been making some surprising comments. He says the Pentagon did not have enough troops in post-war Iraq.
Barbara Starr has this morning's reaction now from the Pentagon to those comments.
Barbara, good morning.
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Heidi.
Well, Paul Bremer, the man who ran the occupation of Iraq after the war, has set the Pentagon's teeth on edge this morning. At some remarks yesterday to an insurance group, ambassador Bremer said the U.S. paid a price when that looting began in Baghdad after the war ended.
One of his central points is what has disturbed the Pentagon, to say the least this morning. Mr. Bremer saying, quote, "We paid a big price for not stopping it," referring to the looting, "because it established an atmosphere of lawlessness." Mr. Bremer goes on to say, "We never had enough troops on the ground."
Now, according to press reports this morning, Paul Bremer is making it clear that when he says not enough troops on the ground, he is referring to that period of time right after Baghdad fell. But, of course, here at the Pentagon, they have consistently said they had all the troops they needed and all the troops that the generals asked for. A senior Pentagon official telling CNN this morning about the Bremer remark, quote, "He never asked for more troops." And that official going on to express some annoyance that all these months later ambassador Bremer is Monday morning quarterbacking the situation -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Barbara, any indication whether or not Paul Bremer knew these comments were going to be made public?
STARR: Oh, most certainly. He was speaking to a large group of insurance industry professionals. That group then put out a press release summarizing Mr. Bremer's remarks. There's no indication at this point that Paul Bremer is saying he was misunderstood. He made the remarks he made. But he is referring to his belief, not enough troops on the ground in Baghdad right after Baghdad fell and that looting began.
We should go on to say that Mr. Bremer says in those remarks, nonetheless, he fully supported regime change that Saddam Hussein had to go. One of the more interesting remarks he then goes on to make, is that he believes both President Bush and Senator Kerry have very similar plans right now to move forward in Iraq. He doesn't see a lot of difference between them, and he believes that the U.S. policy will succeed in Iraq -- Heidi.
COLLINS: All right, Barbara Starr, thanks so much for that reaction from the Pentagon this morning. Appreciate it.
Following terrorist trail now. Another suspected shoe bomber has been indicted in the United States. Saajid Mohammed Badat is suspected in participating in Richard Reid's attempt to blow up a passenger jet in midair in December of 2001.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ASHCROFT, U.S. ATTY. GENERAL: The alleged coconspirator of convicted shoe bomber Richard Colvin (ph) Reid faces American justice. Saajid Mohammed Badat has been charged for his role in the terrorist scheme of Reed to detonate on an American aircraft homemade bombs hidden in his shoes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Terrorism expert M.J. Gohel says Badat is one of a new and frightening breed of terrorists. He is joining us now from London this morning.
Mr. Gohel, thanks for being here.
In fact, you say that Badat has arrested almost a year ago in his hometown of Great Britain, and that he does represent this new generation of terrorists. Who are they?
M.J. GOHEL, TERRORISM EXPERT: Well, yes, indeed, Heidi. Saajid Badat is that new generation of terrorist. These are Western-born individuals, possessing Western social skills. They come from good families. They have no criminal records, but they have been indoctrinated, and they've joined the global jihadists, like Al Qaeda. Saajid Badat is, in fact, originally a Pakistani, and what's worrying is that he, like Richard Reid, is alleged to have gone to the same path of indoctrination, training and ended up at a madrasa, a religious school in Pakistan, and then on to Khalden training in Paktir (ph) province near Tora Bora. And this particular terrorist training camp was meant for people who speak English, so you know, they are now recruiting people who are very good in the English language.
COLLINS: And my understand is that there were several other people, names that we have heard before, that have trained at the camp. Tell us a little bit more about it Khalden.
GOHEL: Well, this is a camp in -- which really I would say is kind of a who's who of terrorists attended. There's Ramzi Yusef who was involved in the first World Trade Center bombing, American James Ujaama. Also Abu Rasam (ph). Abu Rasam was the individual arrested for wanting to blow up a Los Angeles airport on millennium eve. There's Abu Zubaydah. There's a whole host of characters who passed through the religious schools in Pakistan and then they were headhunted, the ones who showed potential, were head hunted and taken to Khalden training camp to be trained in handling weapons, chemical weapons, explosives, and in particular a military explosive known as PETN, which you can mold into any shape, and this is what Richard Reid had used, and it is alleged that Saajid Badat had a quantity of the same explosive.
COLLINS: You know, you also mentioned that the United States and, of course, great Britain has now Richard Reid and Badat now. But the interesting part of it, is we don't hear a lot about getting the people who are responsible for recruiting them in the first place. I mean, is that not the larger issue?
GOHEL: Well, Heidi, I think you've raised the key issue here. Yes, it is important to catch these actual operatives, the ones who are going to perpetrate an atrocity, but really, we have not made much headway as, for instance, who recruited Richard Reid, who indoctrinated him, who trained him, Who supplied him with the explosives. We are just drawing a blank there. And the most worrying thing is we don't know how many others have been trained, how many others are out there and what their intentions are.
COLLINS: All right, M.J. Gohel, we certainly appreciate your insight on this. We know that Badat has been in custody for almost a year. So hopefully there'll be more questioning there and get more information out of him.
Again, M.J. Gohel, thanks so much.
GOHEL: My pleasure.
COLLINS: Meanwhile, switching topics now, scientists say Mount St. Helens is primed for another much larger explosion. Geologist say two small eruptions of steam and ash are likely precursor for more activity at the volcano. Eight miles around the site have been evacuated as a precaution. A level-three alert still in effect. John Major, a geologist at the U.S. Geological Survey, will join us in just a few minutes to keep us updated on that situation.
Still to come, though, one major airline has bad news for employees, but will the top ranks be getting off easily? That's ahead, right here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Attention Wal-Mart shoppers, the store is adding supercenters and trouble at the top U.S. -- at the top at U.S. Air actually.
Andy Serwer "Minding Your Business." Andy yin, Andy yang, we'll get to that later.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: That's right, there are two Andies. Surrounded by Andies. How can you take it?
COLLINS: True.
SERWER: You may think, Heidi, that there are plenty of Wal-Marts out there, but the folks at Bentonville, Arkansas beg to differ, and they're planning to add about 8 percent more stores in the U.S. next year. That's 40 to 45 new discount stores, and get this, 250 new supercenters across the United States. Of course, the supercenters are the Wal-Marts plus the supermarkets.
COLLINS: You could pretty much live at the supercenter.
SERWER: You can. You need roller skates to get around. And you know who's not liking this is the big supermarkets, like Safeways, Albertsons (ph) and Krogers, because they are really feeling the heat from those giant supercenters because of all the groceries that are in there.
Let's talk about U.S. Air quickly here. Yesterday announcing what they said were hundreds of job cuts. Turns out it's 137. That's not hundreds. That's more than a hundred. And these are management jobs, by the way. So it's not the rank and file. They're also saying that management will be taking pay cuts between 5 and 10 percent. But get this, the CEO is not taking a pay cut. He might have a case. He's making only $425,000, which is for a CEO not that much, believe it or not, and it's actually $200,000 less than his predecessor. So maybe he has a bit of case. Still that never really goes down very well when you're cutting jobs and handing out pay cuts and you don't take one yourself.
We'd never do that, right, Andy?
ANDY BOROWITZ, "THE BOROWITIZ REPORT": Never.
COLLINS: Never in a million years. In fact, Andy, what do we say, yang, right? You have ying, you were yang.
All right, we've got the question of the day now, filling in for Jack today.
Hello.
BOROWITZ: Hello, it's all Martha -- Martha, Martha, Martha. Martha Stewart is required to report to prison by Friday. So guess how she's spending her last few days of freedom, hanging out in the Bahamas. Saddam Hussein didn't even get a day in Tikrit.
Now we're not going to get into the issue whether convicted felons should be allowed to leave the country to work on their tan before doing their time. But Martha's Bahama beach vacation does raise the question, if you knew you were going to prison on Friday, how would you like to spend your final days of freedom? E-mail us now at am@CNN.com.
SERWER: That's a great question.
COLLINS: That is a great question. I think I'd be home crying in a heap.
BOROWITZ: Absolutely. That's what I would do.
SERWER: I would not be in Tikrit.
COLLINS: A little quick trip to Tikrit.
SERWER: Andy Serwer, Al Tikriti.
COLLINS: All right, we'll wait and get some responses on that. Andy, thanks so much.
Meanwhile, though, back to Bill in Cleveland.
Hey, Bill.
HEMMER: How about Cleveland, huh?
COLLINS: You could spend it there. There you go.
HEMMER: Borowitz's hometown, by the way. Andy, we're keeping a close watch on you here.
BOROWITZ: Jeff Garcia rules.
HEMMER: Back here in a moment, John Edwards and Dick Cheney squaring off later tonight, the first and only vice-presidential debate. Who faces the bigger challenge? Mary Matalin, Joe Lockhart from the Bush and Kerry campaigns, our guest in a moment as we continue live in Cleveland. The election expression here in northern Ohio.
Back in a moment on this AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired October 5, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Cheney versus Edwards, the vice presidential candidates square off on a midweek debate. Can they change the race tonight.
Surprising comments from the man who led the occupation in Iraq, Paul Bremer now saying lawlessness in the country can be traced to a lack of coalition troops on the ground.
And Elton John picks a fight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELTON JOHN, ENTERTAINER: Madonna, best (EXPLETIVE DELETED) live actress.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Sir Elton slamming Madonna in unprovoked trash talking tirade. We'll tell you what that's all about, on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: This is AMERICAN MORNING. Live from Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio, here's Bill Hemmer.
HEMMER: And good morning on this Tuesday morning. We are in Cleveland, Ohio, Case Western Reserve University, where the vice presidential candidates, Dick Cheney and John Edwards, debate later tonight. We have a whole lot to talk about this morning. Carlos Watson talks about exactly what each man must do to try to help his own boss. Also, we'll look at the differences in style and personality between Dick Cheney and John Edwards, and talk about that with Republican campaign adviser Mary Matalin and Democratic campaign adviser Joe Lockhart back with us today.
But for now, back to New York. And good morning. And my colleague Heidi Collins back there.
Heidi, good morning.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, good morning to you, Bill. We'll get back to you in just a moment.
We also want to talk about what we will have here in New York. Another man has now been indicted in the infamous shoe bomber terror plot. We'll look at the case against Saajid Mohammed Badat. Does he belong to a new generation of terrorists, one that is almost impossible for authorities to profile?
And as you know, Jack is off this week, but later on, we'll check in with Andy Borowitz for the "Question of the Day." So stick around for that.
Meanwhile, let's go ahead and begin with the stories now in the news this morning. Another U.S. soldier has been killed in Iraq. Military sources say a roadside bomb blew up next to an American convoy late last night. Two soldiers were injured in the attack.
In Baghdad, insurgents launched a number of mortar assaults. One of the targets was a key bridge. The other attack was on the Iraqi oil ministry. At least one person has been wounded.
A rescue ship is on its way to pick up a plane crash survivor drifting in the pacific ocean. A Coast Guard plane yesterday spotted the 67-year-old man some 750 miles south of Hawaii. The man was headed to American Samoa when his plane went down. A rescue ship is expected to reach him in about an hour. I bet he'll be glad.
Well, three Americans will share this year's Nobel Peace in physics. David Gross, David Politzer and Frank Wilczeck won the physics prize today for their discovery and study of strong force in quarks. Their work focused on forces inside the nucleus of an atom.
Police issued a warrant in a shooting that targeted the home of entertainers Siegfried Fischbacher and Roy Horn. Police say a gunman fired four shots at the Las Vegas house and yelled for the men to leave the country. Officials disclose tins incident almost a year exactly after Horn was mauled by a tiger. Not a good time for that.
All right, Bill, back to you now in Cleveland once again this morning.
HEMMER: All right, Heidi. Thanks for that.
John Edwards may have been handed a weapon to use against Vice President Dick Cheney later tonight in the debate in Cleveland. Former U.S. administrator in Iraq Paul Bremer now saying the administration made critical mistakes in its post-war plan. In a speech yesterday, Bremer said there were not enough troops deployed, and the violence and looting that took place when the regime fell was not contained. He said, and quoting now, "We paid a big price for not stopping it, because it established an atmosphere of lawlessness. We never had enough troops on the ground," end quote. John Kerry has been making the same criticism in his campaign. Bremer still supports, though the decision to go to war in Iraq, and he also says toppling Saddam Hussein was the right decision.
The vice presidential candidates now debate later tonight here in Cleveland, and the occasion raises a political question that seems to be debated every four years. How much do these debates, the vice presidential debate, really matter?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) HEMMER (voice-over): While vice presidential debates have typically had little impact on the presidential race, they have provided for some memorable moments.
LLOYD BENSON, FORMER VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy.
HEMMER: Lloyd Benson's knockout punch did not prevent Dan Quayle with being elected vice president in 1988. Four years later, there was this from Ross Perot's running mate.
JAMES STOCKDALE, FMR. VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Who am I? Why am I here?
(APPLAUSE)
HEMMER: While Admiral James Stockdale provided some comic relief, he also posed what may be a classic vice presidential debate question. This year, though, in a campaign so close, the No. 2s are trying hard to make a big difference. While Dick Cheney is expected to attack the Kerry/Edwards team for a lack of judgment and experience, John Edwards will be in the trial of his political career.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: So then what does each candidate need to do later tonight to claim victory in the debate? A CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll on who will do a better job in the debate gave a slight edge to the challenger, Democrat John Edwards, 42 percent to Dick Cheney's 40 percent; unsure 15 percent there at the bottom of the screen. The results were within the margin of error, though. And our political analyst Carlos Watson in Miami this morning.
Carlos, good morning to you. We did this last Thursday in Southern Florida. The three things you think each man needs to do. Start with Dick Cheney first. You just say, just win, baby. A page from Al Davis, what do you mean?
CARLOS WATSON, CNN POL. ANALYST: You know, I think at this point, Bill, it's so important in terms of momentum for Republicans to see one of their candidates win. I think John Kerry's win last Thursday in Florida really gave a shot in the arm to Democrats, and really hurt Republicans. And so first and foremost, Cheney's got to be articulate, he's got to be thoughtful and he's come across as the winner in his debate, above all else, against John Edwards.
HEMMER: Also, you say offer a critique of John Kerry. Explain that.
WATSON: So I'm saying not only is he debating John Edwards and needs to win that person-to-person debate, but needs to go forward and needs to actually help his own running mate, George Bush, and offering a stinging, a memorable, and a new critique of John Kerry, one that will still be hearing about tomorrow and Thursday, and one that, frankly, will hang in the air when Friday's presidential debate comes around.
HEMMER: Well, Halloween's a month away. Explain this one, scare but don't scare.
WATSON Got to like that one. So two sides to that point. On one hand, he's got to highlight that this is one of the most dangerous episodes, one of the most dangerous eras, if you will, in American history, post 9/11, and therefore, a certain kind of national security preparedness is needed. And on the other hand, he personally can't come across as a scary person. You know his favorability numbers have gone south in many cases over the last 24 months, and so he's got to come across as someone who is not personally going to scare those so- called security moms.
HEMMER: All right, let's go to John Edwards then. Meet the test. And it is his biggest test to date, Carlos.
WATSON: It is, although, you know, if you look at the polls and you look at his favorability numbers, it's clear that a lot of people have a great deal of affection to him. But he's got to be substantive, he's got to be thoughtful, he's got to be detailed when he talks about policy. When I say meet the test significantly, I think it is meet the test of being an able vice president, not necessarily being a ready-to-serve president.
HEMMER: And with that, offer the vision of John Kerry -- how will he do that?
WATSON: You know, this will be first debate in which we'll have a discussion of all the topics, whether it's domestic or foreign policy. And I think in a very clear and succinct way this former trial lawyer has got to be an advocate on behalf of John Kerry's ticket. So he's got to say here are the four or five special things that would happen in a Kerry administration, and he's got to do that as a very able No. 2 on the ticket.
HEMMER: I like your third one, surprise them. How does he do it?
WATSON: You know, everybody expects him to talk about domestic policy, and everyone expects him to offer a positive face. Bill, he's got to change that. One, he's got to be tougher, and he's got to offer a forceful, if you will, critique, attack, and two, he's got to do it where people don't expect, not on domestic policy, but rather on foreign policy and national security issues. And in doing that, he's to point specifically towards Vice President Cheney, towards Paul Bremer, towards Richard Clarke, President Bush and others, their specific words, actions and deeds. He's got to be a prosecutor, if you will, instead of an advocate.
HEMMER: Carlos, it's Tuesday. On Friday, we'll be in St. Louis for John Kerry and George Bush again. How much does tonight really matter?
WATSON: I think it matters in a couple of ways, Bill. First and foremost, I actually believe that as opposed to the 26 to 28 million who tuned into the last couple of vice presidential debates, we'll have north of 40 million. So that'll be a pretty meaningful audience. No. 2, I think you can see the polls move by maybe one or two points, which isn't big. But no. 3, it could frame the debate on Friday and really frame the momentum. If indeed Dick Cheney is able to offer up a Republican win, it will be a big shot in the arm, and you'll see that it will change the way a lot of people approach Friday. On the other hand, if you get a second Democratic win in a row, Kerry last week, Edwards here, you will see a tremendous amount of momentum going into the domestic policy conversation.
HEMMER: Thank you, Carlos. See you later tonight in northern Ohio. Carlos Watson in Miami so far this morning. Good to see you here.
WATSON: Stay with CNN. Live debate coverage later tonight at 7:00 eastern. The debate itself begins two hours later at 9:00 Eastern Time, lasts about 90 minutes. We'll have it all for you. Back to Heidi now in New York -- Heidi.
COLLINS: All right, Bill, thanks so much. In Colorado, a series of storms touched off nearly a dozen tornadoes within an hour. The twisters touched down yesterday northwest of Denver International Airport and also near Brighton (ph) and Greeley (ph). The tornadoes tore through a mobile home and barn, but no injuries were reported. The storm caused slight delays, though, at the airport. Some planes were rerouted.
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COLLINS: Still to come now, despite opposition, Wal-Mart says it needs more space. That's ahead.
And on terrorist trail. Live to London, as officials eye another suspect in the shoe bomber case.
HEMMER: Also back here in Ohio, Heidi, who has the edge in tonight's debate. We'll hear from Mary Matalin from the Bush campaign and Joe Lockhart here in Cleveland with the Kerry camp. Stay with us. Our coverage continues, right after this.
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COLLINS: Paul Bremer has been making some surprising comments. He says the Pentagon did not have enough troops in post-war Iraq.
Barbara Starr has this morning's reaction now from the Pentagon to those comments.
Barbara, good morning.
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Heidi.
Well, Paul Bremer, the man who ran the occupation of Iraq after the war, has set the Pentagon's teeth on edge this morning. At some remarks yesterday to an insurance group, ambassador Bremer said the U.S. paid a price when that looting began in Baghdad after the war ended.
One of his central points is what has disturbed the Pentagon, to say the least this morning. Mr. Bremer saying, quote, "We paid a big price for not stopping it," referring to the looting, "because it established an atmosphere of lawlessness." Mr. Bremer goes on to say, "We never had enough troops on the ground."
Now, according to press reports this morning, Paul Bremer is making it clear that when he says not enough troops on the ground, he is referring to that period of time right after Baghdad fell. But, of course, here at the Pentagon, they have consistently said they had all the troops they needed and all the troops that the generals asked for. A senior Pentagon official telling CNN this morning about the Bremer remark, quote, "He never asked for more troops." And that official going on to express some annoyance that all these months later ambassador Bremer is Monday morning quarterbacking the situation -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Barbara, any indication whether or not Paul Bremer knew these comments were going to be made public?
STARR: Oh, most certainly. He was speaking to a large group of insurance industry professionals. That group then put out a press release summarizing Mr. Bremer's remarks. There's no indication at this point that Paul Bremer is saying he was misunderstood. He made the remarks he made. But he is referring to his belief, not enough troops on the ground in Baghdad right after Baghdad fell and that looting began.
We should go on to say that Mr. Bremer says in those remarks, nonetheless, he fully supported regime change that Saddam Hussein had to go. One of the more interesting remarks he then goes on to make, is that he believes both President Bush and Senator Kerry have very similar plans right now to move forward in Iraq. He doesn't see a lot of difference between them, and he believes that the U.S. policy will succeed in Iraq -- Heidi.
COLLINS: All right, Barbara Starr, thanks so much for that reaction from the Pentagon this morning. Appreciate it.
Following terrorist trail now. Another suspected shoe bomber has been indicted in the United States. Saajid Mohammed Badat is suspected in participating in Richard Reid's attempt to blow up a passenger jet in midair in December of 2001.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ASHCROFT, U.S. ATTY. GENERAL: The alleged coconspirator of convicted shoe bomber Richard Colvin (ph) Reid faces American justice. Saajid Mohammed Badat has been charged for his role in the terrorist scheme of Reed to detonate on an American aircraft homemade bombs hidden in his shoes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Terrorism expert M.J. Gohel says Badat is one of a new and frightening breed of terrorists. He is joining us now from London this morning.
Mr. Gohel, thanks for being here.
In fact, you say that Badat has arrested almost a year ago in his hometown of Great Britain, and that he does represent this new generation of terrorists. Who are they?
M.J. GOHEL, TERRORISM EXPERT: Well, yes, indeed, Heidi. Saajid Badat is that new generation of terrorist. These are Western-born individuals, possessing Western social skills. They come from good families. They have no criminal records, but they have been indoctrinated, and they've joined the global jihadists, like Al Qaeda. Saajid Badat is, in fact, originally a Pakistani, and what's worrying is that he, like Richard Reid, is alleged to have gone to the same path of indoctrination, training and ended up at a madrasa, a religious school in Pakistan, and then on to Khalden training in Paktir (ph) province near Tora Bora. And this particular terrorist training camp was meant for people who speak English, so you know, they are now recruiting people who are very good in the English language.
COLLINS: And my understand is that there were several other people, names that we have heard before, that have trained at the camp. Tell us a little bit more about it Khalden.
GOHEL: Well, this is a camp in -- which really I would say is kind of a who's who of terrorists attended. There's Ramzi Yusef who was involved in the first World Trade Center bombing, American James Ujaama. Also Abu Rasam (ph). Abu Rasam was the individual arrested for wanting to blow up a Los Angeles airport on millennium eve. There's Abu Zubaydah. There's a whole host of characters who passed through the religious schools in Pakistan and then they were headhunted, the ones who showed potential, were head hunted and taken to Khalden training camp to be trained in handling weapons, chemical weapons, explosives, and in particular a military explosive known as PETN, which you can mold into any shape, and this is what Richard Reid had used, and it is alleged that Saajid Badat had a quantity of the same explosive.
COLLINS: You know, you also mentioned that the United States and, of course, great Britain has now Richard Reid and Badat now. But the interesting part of it, is we don't hear a lot about getting the people who are responsible for recruiting them in the first place. I mean, is that not the larger issue?
GOHEL: Well, Heidi, I think you've raised the key issue here. Yes, it is important to catch these actual operatives, the ones who are going to perpetrate an atrocity, but really, we have not made much headway as, for instance, who recruited Richard Reid, who indoctrinated him, who trained him, Who supplied him with the explosives. We are just drawing a blank there. And the most worrying thing is we don't know how many others have been trained, how many others are out there and what their intentions are.
COLLINS: All right, M.J. Gohel, we certainly appreciate your insight on this. We know that Badat has been in custody for almost a year. So hopefully there'll be more questioning there and get more information out of him.
Again, M.J. Gohel, thanks so much.
GOHEL: My pleasure.
COLLINS: Meanwhile, switching topics now, scientists say Mount St. Helens is primed for another much larger explosion. Geologist say two small eruptions of steam and ash are likely precursor for more activity at the volcano. Eight miles around the site have been evacuated as a precaution. A level-three alert still in effect. John Major, a geologist at the U.S. Geological Survey, will join us in just a few minutes to keep us updated on that situation.
Still to come, though, one major airline has bad news for employees, but will the top ranks be getting off easily? That's ahead, right here on AMERICAN MORNING.
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COLLINS: Attention Wal-Mart shoppers, the store is adding supercenters and trouble at the top U.S. -- at the top at U.S. Air actually.
Andy Serwer "Minding Your Business." Andy yin, Andy yang, we'll get to that later.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: That's right, there are two Andies. Surrounded by Andies. How can you take it?
COLLINS: True.
SERWER: You may think, Heidi, that there are plenty of Wal-Marts out there, but the folks at Bentonville, Arkansas beg to differ, and they're planning to add about 8 percent more stores in the U.S. next year. That's 40 to 45 new discount stores, and get this, 250 new supercenters across the United States. Of course, the supercenters are the Wal-Marts plus the supermarkets.
COLLINS: You could pretty much live at the supercenter.
SERWER: You can. You need roller skates to get around. And you know who's not liking this is the big supermarkets, like Safeways, Albertsons (ph) and Krogers, because they are really feeling the heat from those giant supercenters because of all the groceries that are in there.
Let's talk about U.S. Air quickly here. Yesterday announcing what they said were hundreds of job cuts. Turns out it's 137. That's not hundreds. That's more than a hundred. And these are management jobs, by the way. So it's not the rank and file. They're also saying that management will be taking pay cuts between 5 and 10 percent. But get this, the CEO is not taking a pay cut. He might have a case. He's making only $425,000, which is for a CEO not that much, believe it or not, and it's actually $200,000 less than his predecessor. So maybe he has a bit of case. Still that never really goes down very well when you're cutting jobs and handing out pay cuts and you don't take one yourself.
We'd never do that, right, Andy?
ANDY BOROWITZ, "THE BOROWITIZ REPORT": Never.
COLLINS: Never in a million years. In fact, Andy, what do we say, yang, right? You have ying, you were yang.
All right, we've got the question of the day now, filling in for Jack today.
Hello.
BOROWITZ: Hello, it's all Martha -- Martha, Martha, Martha. Martha Stewart is required to report to prison by Friday. So guess how she's spending her last few days of freedom, hanging out in the Bahamas. Saddam Hussein didn't even get a day in Tikrit.
Now we're not going to get into the issue whether convicted felons should be allowed to leave the country to work on their tan before doing their time. But Martha's Bahama beach vacation does raise the question, if you knew you were going to prison on Friday, how would you like to spend your final days of freedom? E-mail us now at am@CNN.com.
SERWER: That's a great question.
COLLINS: That is a great question. I think I'd be home crying in a heap.
BOROWITZ: Absolutely. That's what I would do.
SERWER: I would not be in Tikrit.
COLLINS: A little quick trip to Tikrit.
SERWER: Andy Serwer, Al Tikriti.
COLLINS: All right, we'll wait and get some responses on that. Andy, thanks so much.
Meanwhile, though, back to Bill in Cleveland.
Hey, Bill.
HEMMER: How about Cleveland, huh?
COLLINS: You could spend it there. There you go.
HEMMER: Borowitz's hometown, by the way. Andy, we're keeping a close watch on you here.
BOROWITZ: Jeff Garcia rules.
HEMMER: Back here in a moment, John Edwards and Dick Cheney squaring off later tonight, the first and only vice-presidential debate. Who faces the bigger challenge? Mary Matalin, Joe Lockhart from the Bush and Kerry campaigns, our guest in a moment as we continue live in Cleveland. The election expression here in northern Ohio.
Back in a moment on this AMERICAN MORNING.
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