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American Morning

Interview With Matthew Dowd; Interview With Debra Deshong; Yaser 'Crowded House'

Aired October 14, 2004 - 07:30 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everyone. We are live again in Columbus, Ohio, the heart of it all, and for good reason. No city in this country is getting bombarded like the people of Columbus, Ohio, when it comes to these political ads.
And last night, we had yet another chance to see how the undecided voters are reacting during these debates. In a few moments, we'll look at how they responded to the debate as it was happening in real-time using the meters yet again. The blue lines, the yellow lines, the men and the women, tell a very interesting story, too. We'll get to that.

We'll also talk to Matthew Dowd from the Bush campaign today and Debra Deshong from the Kerry campaign, reaction from last night and now going forward in a few moments here.

Back to Heidi now, though, in New York.

Heidi -- good morning again to you.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you, too, Bill.

And, boy, if you think the candidates have been busy, think about this. We're going to meet a husband and wife raising triplets and quadruplets and a couple singletons all at the same time. You do the math. I don't even know where we're at now. That's a lot of kids, and not too far apart in years, either. So, Sanjay is going to have more on how they manage it all. Who knows?

Well, "Now in the News" this morning, more details this hour about the explosions in Baghdad. In the last half-hour, we showed you smoke rising in the area known as the Green Zone. The U.S. military now says at least eight civilians were killed in two separate explosions there. There are also reports of injuries. We are going to have much more on these details as they do become available to us.

In Pakistan, three hostages are free this hour after a raid in that country's western tribal region. A fourth hostage, a Chinese engineer, was killed in the raid. Sources say five kidnappers believed to be linked to al Qaeda were also killed in that operation.

In Tennessee this morning, a search is under way for an employee missing after an explosion at an ammunition plant. The blast at Milan Army Ammunition plant yesterday afternoon has left one worker dead, another wounded. Officials say the explosion was an accident and occurred when workers were moving barrels of volatile material. And finally, a space trio is taking a spin around the earth right now. Two Russians and an American were successfully launched into space last night. They will orbit earth before docking at the International Space Station on Saturday. One of the Russians will return in 10 days with the station's current crew. I always love to watch those liftoffs.

All right, back now to Bill in Columbus once again.

HEMMER: Heidi, good morning again here.

More on the debate now and the substance and the style and the spin that we all watched last night. We'll talk to the surrogates now from both sides.

First, say hello and good morning to Matthew Dowd, chief strategist for the Bush campaign.

Welcome, Matthew, in Arlington, Virginia. Good to have you back with us here.

MATTHEW DOWD, CHIEF STRATEGIST, BUSH CAMPAIGN: Good to see you, Bill.

HEMMER: On the screen, our flash polling last night indicates that those that we polled last night still say Senator Kerry won this third and final debate, which would mean a hat trick essentially, three for three over the past two weeks. The perception is that he won. How badly does that affect your campaign?

DOWD: We feel very good about last night. I mean, what you want from these debates is a good choice that comes out. I think you had that. The difference in policies or the difference in one person talking a lot about complaining and the other Senator -- George W. Bush talking about the plans he has. So, we feel very good about this going into the final 19 days of this race.

HEMMER: But again, the perception is that Senator Kerry won. You're saying that doesn't hurt you?

DOWD: I don't think so. I think a lot...

(CROSSTALK)

HEMMER: ... these campaigns.

DOWD: I think you're going to see in the course of the next two or three days or four days that people are going to take some time and look at what happened, look at the substance of what happened was discussed here. And I think you'll see a different result of this over the next two or three days.

We felt great about it. We think the president was on his game. And you saw his heart. You saw who he was. You saw what you wanted to do. And again, we're looking forward to the next 19 days in a race that we always said was going to be close when we were ahead and when we were behind. So, this is exactly where we thought we would be.

HEMMER: Matthew, at one point Senator Kerry said he does not want to be lectured on fiscal responsibility from the president. Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Health care costs for the average American have gone up 64 percent. Tuitions have gone up 35 percent. Gasoline prices up 30 percent. Medicare premiums went up 17 percent a few days ago. Prescription drugs are up 12 percent a year. But guess what, America? The wages of Americans have gone down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Part of the discussion here, Matthew, involves the spin from both campaigns. But Senator Kerry right now paints a pretty negative picture. How can you counter that with less than three weeks to go?

DOWD: Well, Senator Kerry has painted a negative picture of a lot of things without really offering any alternative on the war on terror, on Iraq, on domestic policy, on the economy. The only thing he's really offering are a couple of things. First, he wants to increase taxes, and he thinks that's going to help the economy. And the American public is going to have to be the judge of that. And second, on health care, his plan is a government takeover of health care, $1.5 trillion for people's access.

So, the public has a clear choice after last night. And I think they're going to sit down and look at the president's plans and look at John Kerry's negativism or his plans that I think include taxes and a big government health care.

HEMMER: Matthew...

DOWD: So, I think the choice is clear.

HEMMER: Let me stop you there. I apologize for the interruption here. But you mentioned health care. Look on the screen. Again, according to our polling, the president still leads Senator Kerry on the issue of taxes. But when it comes to the economy, Senator Kerry leads there is, and also he leads on health care. If these numbers hold up, can you win on November 2?

DOWD: Oh, every election the Republicans go in behind on these issue. And I think the fact that the economy is nearly tied with what Senator Kerry and his campaign have done is actually good news for us. Republicans have won the presidential race being behind on these issues, and there are other issues, the war on terror, Iraq. All of these issues go together, Bill, and the public decide. But I think in the end they're going to decide who has got better plans on these, and I think the president's plans, the American public is going to support them.

HEMMER: Matthew Dowd in Arlington, Virginia, thanks for your time this morning. We're going to hear from the Kerry campaign now...

DOWD: Glad to be here, Bill.

HEMMER: OK. Debra Deshong is a senior advisor. She is my guest now in D.C.

Debra, good morning to you this on the morning after the final debate.

DEBRA DESHONG, SR, ADVISOR, KERRY CAMPAIGN: Good morning to you. Thank you for having me.

HEMMER: President Bush is saying that John Kerry cannot afford to pay for the plans that he has proposed. Listen to this clip from last night now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A plan is not a litany of complaints, and a plan is not to lay out programs that you can't pay for. He just said he wants everybody to be able to buy into the same plan that senators and congressmen get. That costs the government $7,700 per family. If every family in America signed up like the senator suggested, it would cost us $5 trillion over 10 years. It's an empty promise. It's called "bait and switch."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Debra, we heard that consistently from the president last night. How will Senator Kerry pay for the proposals we've heard now for months?

DESHONG: Well, one of the things we're going to do is we're going to roll back the tax cuts for the wealthiest of Americans, the ones that George Bush put into place, the ones that created record deficits.

And, you know, there's a big difference between complaining and telling it like it is. George Bush refuses to level with the American people about the situation today. Five million people lost their health care, 1.6 million private-sector jobs gone, and George Bush looks at the situation today and says we've turned a corner. This is the best we can do.

John Kerry looks at the situation today and says we can do better, and I have plans to do it. And so, you know, George Bush can sit there and whine all he wants about us complaining. We're telling it like it is.

HEMMER: The president also said this last night, 98 times the senator voted for higher taxes and to bust the budget 277 times. And if you look at our post-debate polling, we find that in our polling, Senator Kerry won this debate. But does that necessarily translate into votes in three weeks?

DESHONG: I certainly think so. You know, I think the American people last night saw that as president, President Kerry will be the champion of the middle class. And they're responding.

Like you said to Matt Dowd, most polls today have shown that John Kerry won that debate, and people feel that way because they felt that John Kerry has plans to increase jobs and lower the cost of health care. And that's what we're going to talk about. That's why people are responding to John Kerry.

HEMMER: Debra...

DESHONG: You know, I feel sorry for Matt Dowd. He's got a tough job this morning.

HEMMER: All right, Debra, listen, I want to shift our attention now to this other issue that was talked about by Lynne Cheney last night. Senator Kerry brought up the fact that Dick and Lynne Cheney have a gay daughter, and she did not take kindly to that last night. Listen to her comments right around midnight last night in Pittsburgh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LYNNE CHENEY, WIFE OF VICE PRESIDENT DICK CHENEY: I did have a chance to assess John Kerry once more. And, you know, the only thing I could conclude is this is not a good man. This is not a good man. And, of course, I am speaking as a mom and a pretty indignant mom. This is not a good man. What a cheap and tawdry political trick.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Debra, why was it necessary for Senator Kerry to bring this into the debate last night?

DESHONG: Well, you know, Dick Cheney himself talks about his daughter and the fact that she's a lesbian on the campaign trail, and most recently at an event in Iowa on August 24. So, this is not something that's not known to people. Like I said, Dick Cheney and his wife both talk about it on the campaign trail.

And what John Kerry was doing last night was showing the American people that gay Americans are part of the fabric of our American lives. And, in fact, it's part of the family of our vice president and his wife. So, he was telling the American people that gay Americans are part of our lives, part of our families, and they should be respected. And he was talking about that last night, and there's nothing wrong with that.

HEMMER: What Lynne Cheney is suggesting, though, it that was not appropriate. You obviously feel otherwise. Was it appropriate for Senator Kerry to mention it?

DESHONG: Well, you know, if Lynne Cheney has a problem with the fact that she has a gay daughter, that's something that she needs to work out within her own family. But John Kerry sees nothing wrong with it. As clearly I said, the vice president doesn't either since he talks about his daughter on the campaign trail as well.

HEMMER: Debra Deshong is with the Kerry campaign. Thanks for your time live in Washington. Matthew Dowd with the Bush folks before that.

Our coverage continues here in Columbus. And then later in Pennsylvania, a state very much up for grabs at this point, tonight Paula Zahn is there conducting a town hall meeting in Bucks County. We'll have that for you at 8:00 Eastern as our campaign coverage continues.

Back to New York again and Heidi once again -- Heidi.

COLLINS: All right, Bill, thank you.

Former enemy combatant Yaser Hamdi, recently released by the United States, says he is not bitter about his experience. In an exclusive interview with CNN, Hamdi also proclaims his innocence.

Senior international correspondent Nic Robertson is live now in Hong Kong this morning.

Nic -- good morning to you.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Heidi.

Well, our producer, Rid Sayed (ph), conducted the interview with Yaser Hamdi, the first time that he's spoken out publicly. He said that Yaser still seemed dazed about being released, still slightly confused about the situation. His father, he said, was in the room throughout the interview, was very protective of his son, wanting to stay away from certain issues. He didn't get an answer on whether or not Yaser Hamdi knew Osama bin Laden.

Yaser Hamdi not critical of his detention in the United States, not critical of the conditions at least that he was kept in and he was in detention, solitary confinement for well over two years at least. But he did say that he believed that he should have been released sooner because he said he was innocent. That critical issue, was he an enemy combat? Was he picked up carrying a Kalashnikov in Afghanistan in December 2001? He says not.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YASER HAMDI, FORMER DETAINEE: I believe that I'm not an enemy combatant, and I am an innocent person. And I was quoting that all the time for them. I answered all of the questions that they asked me very seriously. And I answered very -- I was cooperative and I give them all of the details.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: Heidi, he says that he wants to get back into normal Saudi life. He was even talking at this early stage about getting married -- Heidi.

COLLINS: What did he say, though, Nic, about his reunion with his family? ROBERTSON: Well, according to his father, it had been incredibly emotional, both of them hugging at the airport when he landed, tears rolling down both their faces, according to his father. He said that, you know, it was very difficult for him to know exactly how to describe his feelings, but that he felt wonderful about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAMDI: It feels great. It feels outstanding. And I can't really describe my feelings, especially after meeting with my parents and my family after more than three years in a tomb, more than three years being away from them. And it's something that I really can't describe at all. It's just very neat to be let down and be given your freedom. You really know what the meaning of freedom, but when you be free before, you know, you really don't feel it. They take it away from you, and they give it to you back, you feel it and it's something really different.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: And this was something that he followed up on, Heidi. He said that he thought his message to the United States was that they should look at the other combatants who are in U.S. detention, that they should look at their cases. And that if they're not guilty, if they haven't been charged with anything at this stage he said then they should consider releasing them quickly as well, because he said being in detention, being in solitary confinement, not having legal representation, not knowing what's happening to you legally, he said, that's a very, very difficult process to go through -- Heidi.

COLLINS: Nic Robertson this morning coming to us live from Hong Kong. Nic, thank you.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COLLINS: Still to come this morning, part four of Dr. Sanjay Gupta's special series, "Crowded House."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We found out we have triplets, a lot of time they are so amazed by that we never told them we have quads.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: That's a little an aside, I guess. You think it's hard raising a teenager, though? Well, try bringing up seven of them all at the same time. We'll show you how one family is doing it. Stay with us here on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Well, as you well know, last night was the third and final debate between the presidential candidates. So Jack is here now with the "Question of the Day."

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Did that happen last night?

COLLINS: It happened last night.

CAFFERTY: I had no clue. I was watching the Yankee-Red Sox game.

Mercifully, these things are over, and they were just awful. One man's opinion. But, I mean, they set up so many rules and stuff and conditions before they ever started that there was no chance we were ever going to see an unguarded moment on either side. And quite frankly, I think we, as citizens and voters, deserve better than that.

But it's probably not going to change, because the debates are controlled by the Democratic and Republican Parties, which also is wrong. That's why you didn't see Ralph Nader. And we should have been able to see Ralph Nader, even if he's not going to be elected. He's on the ballot in a lot of states. He's a candidate. Why was he excluded?

Anyway, the question we're fiddling with here -- is Casey (ph) here? Casey (ph) is bringing me something. Did the debates affect the way you're going to vote? And here's what you're writing in, in the way of answers.

"Yikes! Last night's debate was a total yawn." Thank you. "Maybe they should always let the American voters pick the questions. But did you notice that the TV production crew did a split screen that made Bush appear to be 6 foot 3. How come nobody mentioned Enron?"

Mo in Richmond, Virginia: "I'm a U.S. Marine Corps warrant officer, a registered Republican. President Bush, who I voted for, is not my president. President Bush was the best president I think for what happened during 9/11, but he's not the best president for American, in my opinion, for the next four to eight years."

Well, he can't serve for eight years, only four more.

Kent in Oklahoma: "I vote in every election I possibly can. The debates have not swayed me in any way to cast my vote for George W. Do I agree with all of his choices? No. But I do feel that he is the better man for the job, and he will do a better job in leading the country in the right direction."

Wendy in South Dakota: "No, they didn't. I will still vote the way I voted four years ago for Bush. However, I must say, I'm so glad these debates are over. No more listening to the same tired line of Kerry's "I have a plan." I think I heard that 40 times in the last three debates, and I don't think he ever said what the plans were."

Doug in Bloomfield: "Providing the presidential election is every four years was thoughtful of the Founding Fathers, and last night's debate made me appreciate their wisdom."

Gary writes this: "Your comment about the candidates prattling on for months sounds a lot like the kettle calling the pot black."

Gary, you have a point. Thank you.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: And you'll leave it at that, I bet, right?

CAFFERTY: Yes. I'm not running for anything.

SERWER: That's true.

COLLINS: Good point. Good point.

CAFFERTY: And the stuff I say doesn't really matter. The stuff they say supposedly matters.

COLLINS: This is true. All right, just a few more days, though, until the election.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

COLLINS: It's going to be decided by then, that's for sure.

Well, it appears the Transportation Security Administration is taking their parties very seriously. Andy Serwer here now "Minding Your Business."

SERWER: Yes. You know, Will Rogers, Heidi, said, I don't make jokes; I just watch the government and report the facts. And when you hear about this one, you're going to understand what he was talking about.

That's right. The TSA had themselves a little banquet, and the Associated Press got a hold of some of the expenses, half a million dollars. And let's just go through this list on what the TSA spent your tax dollars on. First of all, travel and lodging. It costs a lot of money to get people there. The event planner got a lot. Then plaques, $81,000 on plaques. Isn't that nice?

Let's move on, because it gets better. Photographs, $5,000. Cakes, oh, those were some expensive cakes. My favorite here is cheese displays for 1,500. It's a little unfair because actually those were three cheese displays. So, it's a little unfair to just say it's 1,500.

COLLINS: Oh, well, that's nice.

SERWER: So three cheese displays.

CAFFERTY: That's a misspelling. It's supposed to say cheesy.

SERWER: Yes. Now, here's the best part. This is sort of the -- this is really the punch line. The best thing is they gave a life- time achievement award to an employee. The TSA is 2-years old.

COLLINS: Wow! I was just going to say, it's a fairly new organization.

CAFFERTY: Will Rogers was right on. SERWER: Well, what were they thinking?

CAFFERTY: Yes.

SERWER: I mean, you can't make this stuff up.

CAFFERTY: What?

SERWER: It really is something else.

COLLINS: Yes.

CAFFERTY: It's incredible.

COLLINS: All right, Andy, thank you for a good chuckle this morning.

SERWER: You're welcome.

COLLINS: We appreciate it.

Still to come now, Soledad is coming back next week, but Dr. Gupta checks in on her and her twin boys today as part of his special series. Oh, look at them. "Crowded House" is the name of it. We're going to see how they are doing all ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Welcome to week four of our series, "Crowded House." We've already looked at toddlers, twins and triplets. This week, though, we're going to focus on the teens.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta is joining us now from Los Angeles on this.

Teenage years can be troublesome -- Sanjay.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Heidi, good morning.

What happens to those multiples when they get all grown up? We're going to hear directly from the mouths of multiples in their teenage years. Listen, from bonding to rivalry, all sorts of different issues even more enhanced by being one of a multiple.

And the Swick family has a lot to say when it comes to a "Crowded House."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA (voice over): Soledad's boys were born just minutes apart, twins who will forever be remembered for their similarities in these pictures. Still, the hope is one day they will grow into individuals. And that's a goal that experts often give to parents of multiples.

Of the nine children in the Swick family, there is a set of quadruplets, all freshmen in high school, and a set of triplets, all college freshmen -- seven teenagers at once.

TARA SWICK, QUADRUPLET: It's nice having brothers and a sister the same age. You kind of know how the guys think that are your age and how then we can talk to them about how the girls think.

GUPTA: Born in the late 1980s, the seven Swicks were part of an era of increased multiple births that has since tapered off. The Swicks used fertility drugs for all of the births. All of them are healthy and none of them are identical.

But...

DREW SWICK, QUADRUPLET: It's pretty easy to tell us apart, so -- but as soon as they learn that we're quads, they have trouble with our names.

GUPTA: As for sibling rivalry:

CARLY SWICK, QUADRUPLET: You just kind of decide for yourself that it won't bother you if they are better at something than you, because you have your own thing that you are better than them at. So it's all good.

KYLA SWICK, TRIPLET: One thing my parents said is they would try not to always call us, oh, triplets, come here. They try to say individual names so that we weren't always lumped into one group.

GUPTA: Parenting multiples may be a unique experience, but financially caring for all seven may seem impossible.

TOM SWICK, FATHER OF MULTIPLES: I have an accounting degree. I mean, the numbers don't add up. But the biggest thing you have to do is plan.

GUPTA: Over the years, the Swicks have learned to haggle, getting group prices on everything from eyeglasses to soccer uniforms to college tuition. But the most important life lessons?

MICHA SWICK, TRIPLET: We already from a young age had to learn to be unselfish with each other. You have to learn how to react to so many different personalities at the start of your life.

CARLY SWICK: Learning how to just do it on your own and not have to worry about your parents doing everything for you.

GUPTA: Learning how to manage such a large family may seem like an amazing feat, but to the Swick parents it's remarkably simple.

SUE SWICK, MOTHER OF MULTIPLES: If you're a good parent with one or two, you'd probably be a good parent with more.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: And experts say the closer the twins are is usually because of the fact that they're identical. Fraternal twins tend to be less close together. But, you know, Heidi, very interesting, experts say try and separate the twins as much as possible when they're going through school. That way they'll grow up with their own individuality.

COLLINS: Yikes! I'm sorry, I can't get past how many children there are in that family.

GUPTA: Nine kids, I know.

COLLINS: Unbelievable. Next week, though, a big finale. Sanjay, what's coming up?

GUPTA: Soledad is going to be back, as you know, Heidi. And we're going to talk to her about her multiples as well. We're also going to find out -- meet one mom, a single mom, who is raising triplets on her own. How does she get back to work? How does she get back in shape doing it all on her own as well? It's "Crowded House." That's going to be next Thursday here on AMERICAN MORNING -- Heidi.

COLLINS: All right, Sanjay, thanks for that.

GUPTA: Thank you.

COLLINS: I want to go back now to Bill once again in Columbus, Ohio.

The multiplicity of debates is over, right -- Bill?

HEMMER: Yes, that it is. And now, we're just looking at No. 19, Heidi. That's 19 days and counting now. With the final debate now done, what do the candidates need to do in these final 19 days to sway the voters they need? Bill Schneider checks it out based on last night and also looking forward.

We're back in a moment here live on the road in Columbus, Ohio, this morning.

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Aired October 14, 2004 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everyone. We are live again in Columbus, Ohio, the heart of it all, and for good reason. No city in this country is getting bombarded like the people of Columbus, Ohio, when it comes to these political ads.
And last night, we had yet another chance to see how the undecided voters are reacting during these debates. In a few moments, we'll look at how they responded to the debate as it was happening in real-time using the meters yet again. The blue lines, the yellow lines, the men and the women, tell a very interesting story, too. We'll get to that.

We'll also talk to Matthew Dowd from the Bush campaign today and Debra Deshong from the Kerry campaign, reaction from last night and now going forward in a few moments here.

Back to Heidi now, though, in New York.

Heidi -- good morning again to you.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you, too, Bill.

And, boy, if you think the candidates have been busy, think about this. We're going to meet a husband and wife raising triplets and quadruplets and a couple singletons all at the same time. You do the math. I don't even know where we're at now. That's a lot of kids, and not too far apart in years, either. So, Sanjay is going to have more on how they manage it all. Who knows?

Well, "Now in the News" this morning, more details this hour about the explosions in Baghdad. In the last half-hour, we showed you smoke rising in the area known as the Green Zone. The U.S. military now says at least eight civilians were killed in two separate explosions there. There are also reports of injuries. We are going to have much more on these details as they do become available to us.

In Pakistan, three hostages are free this hour after a raid in that country's western tribal region. A fourth hostage, a Chinese engineer, was killed in the raid. Sources say five kidnappers believed to be linked to al Qaeda were also killed in that operation.

In Tennessee this morning, a search is under way for an employee missing after an explosion at an ammunition plant. The blast at Milan Army Ammunition plant yesterday afternoon has left one worker dead, another wounded. Officials say the explosion was an accident and occurred when workers were moving barrels of volatile material. And finally, a space trio is taking a spin around the earth right now. Two Russians and an American were successfully launched into space last night. They will orbit earth before docking at the International Space Station on Saturday. One of the Russians will return in 10 days with the station's current crew. I always love to watch those liftoffs.

All right, back now to Bill in Columbus once again.

HEMMER: Heidi, good morning again here.

More on the debate now and the substance and the style and the spin that we all watched last night. We'll talk to the surrogates now from both sides.

First, say hello and good morning to Matthew Dowd, chief strategist for the Bush campaign.

Welcome, Matthew, in Arlington, Virginia. Good to have you back with us here.

MATTHEW DOWD, CHIEF STRATEGIST, BUSH CAMPAIGN: Good to see you, Bill.

HEMMER: On the screen, our flash polling last night indicates that those that we polled last night still say Senator Kerry won this third and final debate, which would mean a hat trick essentially, three for three over the past two weeks. The perception is that he won. How badly does that affect your campaign?

DOWD: We feel very good about last night. I mean, what you want from these debates is a good choice that comes out. I think you had that. The difference in policies or the difference in one person talking a lot about complaining and the other Senator -- George W. Bush talking about the plans he has. So, we feel very good about this going into the final 19 days of this race.

HEMMER: But again, the perception is that Senator Kerry won. You're saying that doesn't hurt you?

DOWD: I don't think so. I think a lot...

(CROSSTALK)

HEMMER: ... these campaigns.

DOWD: I think you're going to see in the course of the next two or three days or four days that people are going to take some time and look at what happened, look at the substance of what happened was discussed here. And I think you'll see a different result of this over the next two or three days.

We felt great about it. We think the president was on his game. And you saw his heart. You saw who he was. You saw what you wanted to do. And again, we're looking forward to the next 19 days in a race that we always said was going to be close when we were ahead and when we were behind. So, this is exactly where we thought we would be.

HEMMER: Matthew, at one point Senator Kerry said he does not want to be lectured on fiscal responsibility from the president. Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Health care costs for the average American have gone up 64 percent. Tuitions have gone up 35 percent. Gasoline prices up 30 percent. Medicare premiums went up 17 percent a few days ago. Prescription drugs are up 12 percent a year. But guess what, America? The wages of Americans have gone down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Part of the discussion here, Matthew, involves the spin from both campaigns. But Senator Kerry right now paints a pretty negative picture. How can you counter that with less than three weeks to go?

DOWD: Well, Senator Kerry has painted a negative picture of a lot of things without really offering any alternative on the war on terror, on Iraq, on domestic policy, on the economy. The only thing he's really offering are a couple of things. First, he wants to increase taxes, and he thinks that's going to help the economy. And the American public is going to have to be the judge of that. And second, on health care, his plan is a government takeover of health care, $1.5 trillion for people's access.

So, the public has a clear choice after last night. And I think they're going to sit down and look at the president's plans and look at John Kerry's negativism or his plans that I think include taxes and a big government health care.

HEMMER: Matthew...

DOWD: So, I think the choice is clear.

HEMMER: Let me stop you there. I apologize for the interruption here. But you mentioned health care. Look on the screen. Again, according to our polling, the president still leads Senator Kerry on the issue of taxes. But when it comes to the economy, Senator Kerry leads there is, and also he leads on health care. If these numbers hold up, can you win on November 2?

DOWD: Oh, every election the Republicans go in behind on these issue. And I think the fact that the economy is nearly tied with what Senator Kerry and his campaign have done is actually good news for us. Republicans have won the presidential race being behind on these issues, and there are other issues, the war on terror, Iraq. All of these issues go together, Bill, and the public decide. But I think in the end they're going to decide who has got better plans on these, and I think the president's plans, the American public is going to support them.

HEMMER: Matthew Dowd in Arlington, Virginia, thanks for your time this morning. We're going to hear from the Kerry campaign now...

DOWD: Glad to be here, Bill.

HEMMER: OK. Debra Deshong is a senior advisor. She is my guest now in D.C.

Debra, good morning to you this on the morning after the final debate.

DEBRA DESHONG, SR, ADVISOR, KERRY CAMPAIGN: Good morning to you. Thank you for having me.

HEMMER: President Bush is saying that John Kerry cannot afford to pay for the plans that he has proposed. Listen to this clip from last night now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A plan is not a litany of complaints, and a plan is not to lay out programs that you can't pay for. He just said he wants everybody to be able to buy into the same plan that senators and congressmen get. That costs the government $7,700 per family. If every family in America signed up like the senator suggested, it would cost us $5 trillion over 10 years. It's an empty promise. It's called "bait and switch."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Debra, we heard that consistently from the president last night. How will Senator Kerry pay for the proposals we've heard now for months?

DESHONG: Well, one of the things we're going to do is we're going to roll back the tax cuts for the wealthiest of Americans, the ones that George Bush put into place, the ones that created record deficits.

And, you know, there's a big difference between complaining and telling it like it is. George Bush refuses to level with the American people about the situation today. Five million people lost their health care, 1.6 million private-sector jobs gone, and George Bush looks at the situation today and says we've turned a corner. This is the best we can do.

John Kerry looks at the situation today and says we can do better, and I have plans to do it. And so, you know, George Bush can sit there and whine all he wants about us complaining. We're telling it like it is.

HEMMER: The president also said this last night, 98 times the senator voted for higher taxes and to bust the budget 277 times. And if you look at our post-debate polling, we find that in our polling, Senator Kerry won this debate. But does that necessarily translate into votes in three weeks?

DESHONG: I certainly think so. You know, I think the American people last night saw that as president, President Kerry will be the champion of the middle class. And they're responding.

Like you said to Matt Dowd, most polls today have shown that John Kerry won that debate, and people feel that way because they felt that John Kerry has plans to increase jobs and lower the cost of health care. And that's what we're going to talk about. That's why people are responding to John Kerry.

HEMMER: Debra...

DESHONG: You know, I feel sorry for Matt Dowd. He's got a tough job this morning.

HEMMER: All right, Debra, listen, I want to shift our attention now to this other issue that was talked about by Lynne Cheney last night. Senator Kerry brought up the fact that Dick and Lynne Cheney have a gay daughter, and she did not take kindly to that last night. Listen to her comments right around midnight last night in Pittsburgh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LYNNE CHENEY, WIFE OF VICE PRESIDENT DICK CHENEY: I did have a chance to assess John Kerry once more. And, you know, the only thing I could conclude is this is not a good man. This is not a good man. And, of course, I am speaking as a mom and a pretty indignant mom. This is not a good man. What a cheap and tawdry political trick.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Debra, why was it necessary for Senator Kerry to bring this into the debate last night?

DESHONG: Well, you know, Dick Cheney himself talks about his daughter and the fact that she's a lesbian on the campaign trail, and most recently at an event in Iowa on August 24. So, this is not something that's not known to people. Like I said, Dick Cheney and his wife both talk about it on the campaign trail.

And what John Kerry was doing last night was showing the American people that gay Americans are part of the fabric of our American lives. And, in fact, it's part of the family of our vice president and his wife. So, he was telling the American people that gay Americans are part of our lives, part of our families, and they should be respected. And he was talking about that last night, and there's nothing wrong with that.

HEMMER: What Lynne Cheney is suggesting, though, it that was not appropriate. You obviously feel otherwise. Was it appropriate for Senator Kerry to mention it?

DESHONG: Well, you know, if Lynne Cheney has a problem with the fact that she has a gay daughter, that's something that she needs to work out within her own family. But John Kerry sees nothing wrong with it. As clearly I said, the vice president doesn't either since he talks about his daughter on the campaign trail as well.

HEMMER: Debra Deshong is with the Kerry campaign. Thanks for your time live in Washington. Matthew Dowd with the Bush folks before that.

Our coverage continues here in Columbus. And then later in Pennsylvania, a state very much up for grabs at this point, tonight Paula Zahn is there conducting a town hall meeting in Bucks County. We'll have that for you at 8:00 Eastern as our campaign coverage continues.

Back to New York again and Heidi once again -- Heidi.

COLLINS: All right, Bill, thank you.

Former enemy combatant Yaser Hamdi, recently released by the United States, says he is not bitter about his experience. In an exclusive interview with CNN, Hamdi also proclaims his innocence.

Senior international correspondent Nic Robertson is live now in Hong Kong this morning.

Nic -- good morning to you.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Heidi.

Well, our producer, Rid Sayed (ph), conducted the interview with Yaser Hamdi, the first time that he's spoken out publicly. He said that Yaser still seemed dazed about being released, still slightly confused about the situation. His father, he said, was in the room throughout the interview, was very protective of his son, wanting to stay away from certain issues. He didn't get an answer on whether or not Yaser Hamdi knew Osama bin Laden.

Yaser Hamdi not critical of his detention in the United States, not critical of the conditions at least that he was kept in and he was in detention, solitary confinement for well over two years at least. But he did say that he believed that he should have been released sooner because he said he was innocent. That critical issue, was he an enemy combat? Was he picked up carrying a Kalashnikov in Afghanistan in December 2001? He says not.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YASER HAMDI, FORMER DETAINEE: I believe that I'm not an enemy combatant, and I am an innocent person. And I was quoting that all the time for them. I answered all of the questions that they asked me very seriously. And I answered very -- I was cooperative and I give them all of the details.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: Heidi, he says that he wants to get back into normal Saudi life. He was even talking at this early stage about getting married -- Heidi.

COLLINS: What did he say, though, Nic, about his reunion with his family? ROBERTSON: Well, according to his father, it had been incredibly emotional, both of them hugging at the airport when he landed, tears rolling down both their faces, according to his father. He said that, you know, it was very difficult for him to know exactly how to describe his feelings, but that he felt wonderful about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAMDI: It feels great. It feels outstanding. And I can't really describe my feelings, especially after meeting with my parents and my family after more than three years in a tomb, more than three years being away from them. And it's something that I really can't describe at all. It's just very neat to be let down and be given your freedom. You really know what the meaning of freedom, but when you be free before, you know, you really don't feel it. They take it away from you, and they give it to you back, you feel it and it's something really different.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: And this was something that he followed up on, Heidi. He said that he thought his message to the United States was that they should look at the other combatants who are in U.S. detention, that they should look at their cases. And that if they're not guilty, if they haven't been charged with anything at this stage he said then they should consider releasing them quickly as well, because he said being in detention, being in solitary confinement, not having legal representation, not knowing what's happening to you legally, he said, that's a very, very difficult process to go through -- Heidi.

COLLINS: Nic Robertson this morning coming to us live from Hong Kong. Nic, thank you.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COLLINS: Still to come this morning, part four of Dr. Sanjay Gupta's special series, "Crowded House."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We found out we have triplets, a lot of time they are so amazed by that we never told them we have quads.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: That's a little an aside, I guess. You think it's hard raising a teenager, though? Well, try bringing up seven of them all at the same time. We'll show you how one family is doing it. Stay with us here on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Well, as you well know, last night was the third and final debate between the presidential candidates. So Jack is here now with the "Question of the Day."

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Did that happen last night?

COLLINS: It happened last night.

CAFFERTY: I had no clue. I was watching the Yankee-Red Sox game.

Mercifully, these things are over, and they were just awful. One man's opinion. But, I mean, they set up so many rules and stuff and conditions before they ever started that there was no chance we were ever going to see an unguarded moment on either side. And quite frankly, I think we, as citizens and voters, deserve better than that.

But it's probably not going to change, because the debates are controlled by the Democratic and Republican Parties, which also is wrong. That's why you didn't see Ralph Nader. And we should have been able to see Ralph Nader, even if he's not going to be elected. He's on the ballot in a lot of states. He's a candidate. Why was he excluded?

Anyway, the question we're fiddling with here -- is Casey (ph) here? Casey (ph) is bringing me something. Did the debates affect the way you're going to vote? And here's what you're writing in, in the way of answers.

"Yikes! Last night's debate was a total yawn." Thank you. "Maybe they should always let the American voters pick the questions. But did you notice that the TV production crew did a split screen that made Bush appear to be 6 foot 3. How come nobody mentioned Enron?"

Mo in Richmond, Virginia: "I'm a U.S. Marine Corps warrant officer, a registered Republican. President Bush, who I voted for, is not my president. President Bush was the best president I think for what happened during 9/11, but he's not the best president for American, in my opinion, for the next four to eight years."

Well, he can't serve for eight years, only four more.

Kent in Oklahoma: "I vote in every election I possibly can. The debates have not swayed me in any way to cast my vote for George W. Do I agree with all of his choices? No. But I do feel that he is the better man for the job, and he will do a better job in leading the country in the right direction."

Wendy in South Dakota: "No, they didn't. I will still vote the way I voted four years ago for Bush. However, I must say, I'm so glad these debates are over. No more listening to the same tired line of Kerry's "I have a plan." I think I heard that 40 times in the last three debates, and I don't think he ever said what the plans were."

Doug in Bloomfield: "Providing the presidential election is every four years was thoughtful of the Founding Fathers, and last night's debate made me appreciate their wisdom."

Gary writes this: "Your comment about the candidates prattling on for months sounds a lot like the kettle calling the pot black."

Gary, you have a point. Thank you.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: And you'll leave it at that, I bet, right?

CAFFERTY: Yes. I'm not running for anything.

SERWER: That's true.

COLLINS: Good point. Good point.

CAFFERTY: And the stuff I say doesn't really matter. The stuff they say supposedly matters.

COLLINS: This is true. All right, just a few more days, though, until the election.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

COLLINS: It's going to be decided by then, that's for sure.

Well, it appears the Transportation Security Administration is taking their parties very seriously. Andy Serwer here now "Minding Your Business."

SERWER: Yes. You know, Will Rogers, Heidi, said, I don't make jokes; I just watch the government and report the facts. And when you hear about this one, you're going to understand what he was talking about.

That's right. The TSA had themselves a little banquet, and the Associated Press got a hold of some of the expenses, half a million dollars. And let's just go through this list on what the TSA spent your tax dollars on. First of all, travel and lodging. It costs a lot of money to get people there. The event planner got a lot. Then plaques, $81,000 on plaques. Isn't that nice?

Let's move on, because it gets better. Photographs, $5,000. Cakes, oh, those were some expensive cakes. My favorite here is cheese displays for 1,500. It's a little unfair because actually those were three cheese displays. So, it's a little unfair to just say it's 1,500.

COLLINS: Oh, well, that's nice.

SERWER: So three cheese displays.

CAFFERTY: That's a misspelling. It's supposed to say cheesy.

SERWER: Yes. Now, here's the best part. This is sort of the -- this is really the punch line. The best thing is they gave a life- time achievement award to an employee. The TSA is 2-years old.

COLLINS: Wow! I was just going to say, it's a fairly new organization.

CAFFERTY: Will Rogers was right on. SERWER: Well, what were they thinking?

CAFFERTY: Yes.

SERWER: I mean, you can't make this stuff up.

CAFFERTY: What?

SERWER: It really is something else.

COLLINS: Yes.

CAFFERTY: It's incredible.

COLLINS: All right, Andy, thank you for a good chuckle this morning.

SERWER: You're welcome.

COLLINS: We appreciate it.

Still to come now, Soledad is coming back next week, but Dr. Gupta checks in on her and her twin boys today as part of his special series. Oh, look at them. "Crowded House" is the name of it. We're going to see how they are doing all ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Welcome to week four of our series, "Crowded House." We've already looked at toddlers, twins and triplets. This week, though, we're going to focus on the teens.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta is joining us now from Los Angeles on this.

Teenage years can be troublesome -- Sanjay.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Heidi, good morning.

What happens to those multiples when they get all grown up? We're going to hear directly from the mouths of multiples in their teenage years. Listen, from bonding to rivalry, all sorts of different issues even more enhanced by being one of a multiple.

And the Swick family has a lot to say when it comes to a "Crowded House."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA (voice over): Soledad's boys were born just minutes apart, twins who will forever be remembered for their similarities in these pictures. Still, the hope is one day they will grow into individuals. And that's a goal that experts often give to parents of multiples.

Of the nine children in the Swick family, there is a set of quadruplets, all freshmen in high school, and a set of triplets, all college freshmen -- seven teenagers at once.

TARA SWICK, QUADRUPLET: It's nice having brothers and a sister the same age. You kind of know how the guys think that are your age and how then we can talk to them about how the girls think.

GUPTA: Born in the late 1980s, the seven Swicks were part of an era of increased multiple births that has since tapered off. The Swicks used fertility drugs for all of the births. All of them are healthy and none of them are identical.

But...

DREW SWICK, QUADRUPLET: It's pretty easy to tell us apart, so -- but as soon as they learn that we're quads, they have trouble with our names.

GUPTA: As for sibling rivalry:

CARLY SWICK, QUADRUPLET: You just kind of decide for yourself that it won't bother you if they are better at something than you, because you have your own thing that you are better than them at. So it's all good.

KYLA SWICK, TRIPLET: One thing my parents said is they would try not to always call us, oh, triplets, come here. They try to say individual names so that we weren't always lumped into one group.

GUPTA: Parenting multiples may be a unique experience, but financially caring for all seven may seem impossible.

TOM SWICK, FATHER OF MULTIPLES: I have an accounting degree. I mean, the numbers don't add up. But the biggest thing you have to do is plan.

GUPTA: Over the years, the Swicks have learned to haggle, getting group prices on everything from eyeglasses to soccer uniforms to college tuition. But the most important life lessons?

MICHA SWICK, TRIPLET: We already from a young age had to learn to be unselfish with each other. You have to learn how to react to so many different personalities at the start of your life.

CARLY SWICK: Learning how to just do it on your own and not have to worry about your parents doing everything for you.

GUPTA: Learning how to manage such a large family may seem like an amazing feat, but to the Swick parents it's remarkably simple.

SUE SWICK, MOTHER OF MULTIPLES: If you're a good parent with one or two, you'd probably be a good parent with more.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: And experts say the closer the twins are is usually because of the fact that they're identical. Fraternal twins tend to be less close together. But, you know, Heidi, very interesting, experts say try and separate the twins as much as possible when they're going through school. That way they'll grow up with their own individuality.

COLLINS: Yikes! I'm sorry, I can't get past how many children there are in that family.

GUPTA: Nine kids, I know.

COLLINS: Unbelievable. Next week, though, a big finale. Sanjay, what's coming up?

GUPTA: Soledad is going to be back, as you know, Heidi. And we're going to talk to her about her multiples as well. We're also going to find out -- meet one mom, a single mom, who is raising triplets on her own. How does she get back to work? How does she get back in shape doing it all on her own as well? It's "Crowded House." That's going to be next Thursday here on AMERICAN MORNING -- Heidi.

COLLINS: All right, Sanjay, thanks for that.

GUPTA: Thank you.

COLLINS: I want to go back now to Bill once again in Columbus, Ohio.

The multiplicity of debates is over, right -- Bill?

HEMMER: Yes, that it is. And now, we're just looking at No. 19, Heidi. That's 19 days and counting now. With the final debate now done, what do the candidates need to do in these final 19 days to sway the voters they need? Bill Schneider checks it out based on last night and also looking forward.

We're back in a moment here live on the road in Columbus, Ohio, this morning.

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