Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Ballot Battle; Slow Start To Flu Season, But New Concern Over Shortages For High-Risk Groups
Aired October 28, 2004 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. Just about half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING.
New developments this morning in a massive legal fight that could result in thousands of ballots being thrown out on Election Day. It's a very controversial court ruling that's coming in a number of swing sates. We'll take a look at who's leading this legal fight when we check with Jeffrey Toobin.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: In a close election like we're going to see again this year quite possibly, you start to see these warts right now in the system.
O'BRIEN: You see a fight over this, and we haven't gotten to the election yet.
HEMMER: Very true.
O'BRIEN: Ugly.
HEMMER: Tuesday.
Also, the Red Sox basking in the glow. It took them about 16 light years to do it, but they won last night, took the world series four games to none over St. Louis. They are back at Fenway Park. In fact, they arrived just about an hour ago. More reaction from Boston in a moment. Big smiles there in Northeast today for the Red Sox.
O'BRIEN: Just because it took a long time...
HEMMER: That it did, took a very long time.
O'BRIEN: ... doesn't mean it doesn't deserve the victory.
To the headlines now, and Heidi Collins with us today.
Good morning, Heidi.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: How about the fans, though, who have been fans, you know, all along?
HEMMER: How about Ed Fine. Ed Fine is 75 years young. He lives in Concord, New Hampshire. He's the father of our produce, Ted Fine. He's never seen this until now. So to Mr. Fine, congratulations. It was worth the wait, we hope.
COLLINS: Yes, no kidding.
I do want to get to the news now this morning, though.
A decision expected within the next few hours on whether to move Yasser Arafat from his compound. The Israeli minister granted permission, allowing the Palestinian leader seek medical care in Ramallah. A Palestinian official say Arafat is seriously ill and unable to take food, but was able to leave his bed to take part in early-morning prayers this morning.
The first military hearing is set to begin this morning for one of seven U.S. Navy SEALS charged with Iraqi prisoner abuse. The unidentified sailor faces a court-martial on charges he mistreated detainees at Abu Ghraib for a six-month period. A second Navy Seal will face a hearing tomorrow. Their names will be released following those hearings.
And on the campaign trail, President Bush stumping in the Midwest. He'll speak next hour at a rally in Michigan, then heads to Ohio and Pennsylvania. And Senator John Kerry at the University of Toledo in Ohio. He will meet with reporters in Wisconsin this afternoon. Bruce Springsteen expected to join the senator.
So at least we know there will be some good music.
HEMMER: Thank you, Heidi.
O'BRIEN: Thanks, Heidi.
Republicans and Democrats in two key swing states already battling out in court over who gets to cast votes in this year's presidential election and how it should be done -- all this and the election just five days away.
Ken Blackwell is Ohio's Republican secretary of state and Chet Culver is Iowa's Democratic secretary of state.
Ken, let's begin with you. You've actually started off your morning with some bad news. A federal district judge has blocked your attempt to hold a hearing to challenge some 20,000 newly registered voters. How are you feeling about that this morning? And what are you going to do about it?
KEN BLACKWELL (R), OHIO SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, I'm not starting off with any bad news. As I told your folks last night, I didn't have a dog in that fight.
What the court blocked was the state GOP's challenge of some 35,000 voters. Just two days before that, we had already made a decision to allow challenged voters to vote provisionally.
So in Ohio, the ground rules are set. Those who believe that they are legally registered can ask for a provisional ballot if their name is not on their -- the voting rolls in their assigned precinct. And we're going to check that out the way we always have checked it out over a decade. O'BRIEN: Chet, you have gotten some flack for something that you support. Why should people be able to show up where they don't live and cast a ballot?
CHET CULVER (D), IOWA SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, I believe very strongly that our role as election administrators at the state and local level is to help enfranchise people.
And in Iowa, we want to lead the nation in voter participation. We want to lead the nation in election administration.
So my job, my focus...
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: I'm not sure you're answering my question.
Why should they be able to show up and vote in a place where they don't live?
CULVER: Well, I think the Help America Vote Act was intended to actually help Americans vote. And there is a new provision in the Help America Vote Act that calls for a provisional ballot. And I believe every attempt should be made in every state and certainly the great state of Iowa to count those ballots, to count those provisional ballots.
We had 4 million to 6 million people that were disenfranchised in this country in 2000. That should never happen again. And we're focused here in Iowa on enfranchising hopefully a record number of Iowans. We expect 75 percent turnout, and 2.1 million people are registered, which is 95 percent of eligible Iowans.
O'BRIEN: Ken, let's talk about this provisional ballot. Theoretically, you could go and be registered, but your vote might not count, I mean, because in your state some 400,000 ballots could be sort of up in the air. How can this possibly be fair?
BLACKWELL: Well, essentially Ohio law has said for over a decade that anyone can get a provisional ballot, but you must cast it in one of three places: in your assigned precinct, at the board of elections, or at a regional center if one has been designated.
The objective there is to make it as easy to vote for all legally registered voters, but to also protect against widespread voter fraud. We must protect the integrity of the election so that people really believe that the result on Election Day actually reflects the authentic will of the voting public.
I can tell you right now, in Ohio, we don't have a system of voters without borders. We have one that says that everybody should be allowed to cast a ballot, but there is a process of converting that ballot to a legal vote. And it's fair, it's worked and the courts have upheld our system consistently.
O'BRIEN: Chet, the Justice Department is dispatching 1,000 federal election observers, which I guess could be dispatched really anywhere around the country. Do you welcome that?
CULVER: I think if we dispatch election officials or people from the Department of Justice we should be focusing on preventing voter suppression, we should be focusing on enfranchisement, doing everything we can to increase turnout.
We have to remember that 4 million to 6 million people in 2000 were unnecessarily disenfranchised. The provisional ballot is an attempt to help people as a safety net to make sure that every vote in this country is counted and counted accurately.
So I wish we would spend most of our time here down the home stretch on plans to protect voters in this country, to encourage people to get out, and to make sure if anything happens at the precinct, that their rights as American citizens and as voters in this state and country are protected.
That's where our focus needs to be. The provisional ballot was put in place to protect people. We had 2 million to 3 million people that showed up in 2000 that weren't given a provisional ballot. We didn't have a provisional ballot in most states in 2000.
So we need to look out for the voters' rights. And I am very encouraged about doing that right here in Iowa and we are very, very excited about Election Day.
O'BRIEN: Ken, we only have a few seconds.
There is a sense of, you know, we can send a man to the moon and we can't figure this out with the state of technology that we have today. Why are we having this debate that we had four years ago? Why isn't this resolved and each person gets one vote and it's straightforward?
BLACKWELL: I think, Soledad, most of us really do understand that elections are human enterprises. So in the state of Ohio, we have 45,000 poll workers and election officials over 88 counties. You are going to have a hiccup here or a hiccup there.
What you manage against is systematic choking, and we in fact have always managed against that in the state of Ohio. We believe that anyone who is legally registered to vote will be given the right to vote and have that vote counted. But we will protect the system against widespread fraud so that everybody believes that the final count is a real count and nobody's vote has been devalued because of counterfeit votes.
CULVER: I just want to add one thing.
O'BRIEN: You have two seconds to do it.
CULVER: We didn't have problems with voter fraud in this country in 2000; we had problems with people being unnecessarily disenfranchised, 4 million to 6 million people.
Let's focus on turnout, voter registration and hopefully having a record turnout in the United States with 120 million Americans on November 2nd.
O'BRIEN: That's a long two seconds. That's the final word this morning.
Thanks, guys -- Bill.
HEMMER: Really good discussion. Let's continue it now with our senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin back with me here.
Good morning to you.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: That was great. I mean, that was just fascinating.
HEMMER: Do you buy 75 percent turnout in the state of Iowa?
TOOBIN: That's awfully high. Iowa is a state like a lot in sort of the upper Midwest has traditionally high turnout, but 75 would be extraordinary. But this is one of the great mysteries about Tuesday. Passions are so high, voter registration is so high, we really may see turnout on the order of 75 percent in some states.
HEMMER: If that's the case though, can polling stations handle that load?
TOOBIN: Well, that's -- again, we don't really know. Plus, the question is, the really big question is, what is going to happen at those polling places? The tension surrounding this election is so great, and there are so many observers from both parties who will be at the polling place, the fights over who gets to vote and who's registered could be very dramatic, very intense. And they could delay voting.
HEMMER: Give me an example. You're working a polling station. You're working for a particular party. I walk in, and you look at me and you think I'm suspicion. You think perhaps my vote should not help because I'm not legal in what sense. And what do you say to me?
TOOBIN: It's not necessarily that I don't like your look. That's not a legitimate reason to question you. The issue is, OK, I say my name is Jeffrey Toobin and I live at such and such a place. Where is your ID? Well, I forgot my ID. It varies by state about what kind of ID is acceptable.
I don't have a driver's license. Maybe I have a utility bill. Is a utility bill good enough? The Democrat says yes, the Republican say no. What if a middle initial -- I have it on my driver's license, I don't have it on my registration.
HEMMER: Do have you an obligation, then, to send me to another precinct where I can cast a legal ballot?
TOOBIN: You know, under the new law, you have the right to file a provisional ballot. But the question is: Will the provisional ballot be counted? That we don't know until they start counting them later on that night or perhaps the following day. But those are the kind of fights we're going to see. And I really think people need to be calm at these voting stations, because I think the passions are going to be incredibly high.
HEMMER: Well, here's another scenario. Just thinking about it, in St. Louis -- the St. Louis area back in 2000, remember the lines were so long they went to a judge to try to keep the polling stations open later, and the judge turned down that request.
TOOBIN: I think the judge actually allowed it in certain circumstances but not others. St. Louis, that's one of the things that Senator Bond, who was the sponsor of the Help America Vote Act, he was enraged about was how he thought the Democrats tried to steal the election in St. Louis. And he is the Mr. Anti-fraud.
And you heard from the secretaries of state, the Republicans are talking about fraud, the Democrats are talking about voter suppression.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jeff.
TOOBIN: It's going to be a great night.
HEMMER: It's going to be a long night. Here's Soledad.
O'BRIEN: You know it is.
You know where else it was a long night? In Boston, where they are still partying. The Sox are back in Boston. The team arrived in Beantown to celebrate their World Series victory with fans. The Sox, of course, beating the St. Louis Cardinals to win their first World Series in, oh, just about 86 years. Happy, happy, joy, joy -- the curse has been reversed.
Time to check in on the weather and Rob Marciano in for Chad Myers. He's at the CNN Center for us. Hello, again.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: thank you very much, Rob.
HEMMER: We should have gone to Chicago this week.
O'BRIEN: It was nice when we were there last week, too.
HEMMER: Thanks, Rob. Yeah.
O'BRIEN: Nice shot there that they were able to show (INAUDIBLE) there.
Still to come this morning, big anniversary nobody on Wall Street wants to celebrate. Andy has got that just ahead.
HEMMER: Also, when you -- just when you thought you knew who was supposed to get a flu shot and who was not, some states changing the rules. We'll get to that in a moment as we continue right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Sanjay is on vacation this week; the flu vaccine is not. It may be in short supply, but so far so is the flu. And that is very good news. The CDC reporting a slow start to the season.
Elizabeth Cohen at the CNN Center with more on this and the flu shot shortage situation. Good morning there, Elizabeth.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill. And that is, indeed, good news, but there's also some sobering news today -- a growing recognition that there simply aren't enough flu shots at this point for the high-risk group. That's the group of people who the CDC says really need these shots. There don't appear to be enough to go around.
And that's why you are seeing the long lines, for example, in New Jersey. And that's why the New Jersey governor just signed into law that there will be a fine, a $500 fine, if people are giving flu shots to people who don't need them.
Now, let's take a look at who is supposed to get a flu shot -- children ages six to 23 months, adults 65 years and older, people with chronic medical conditions, all women who will be pregnant during the flu season, healthcare workers, and also household contacts of babies -- those people who live with babies ages zero to six months. Those babies are too young to get flu shots, so the people who live wit them are supposed to get flu shots.
And as I said, growing recognition that, at this point, there simply aren't enough shots for even that group, for even those people who are supposed to get them. So, different states are taking different measures.
For example, you have in Massachusetts, New Jersey, and Maryland, communities in those three states are having flu shot lotteries. In Kansas and Montana, some communities in those states are prioritizing medical conditions over age. In other words, that they'll say to a 66-year-old person, "Yes, you're in the age range, but you're healthy. Let's give it to this diabetic 21-year-old." They're having to make those kind of distinctions in some communities in that state.
Also in North Carolina, they are saying to women, "You have to be pregnant now in order to get a flu shot. Just because you say you plan on being pregnant later in the flu season, let's say in January, that's not good enough. We won't give you your flu shot."
And so, that's what those communities are doing, because it's tough to make a decision. Two people come to get a flu shot, both of whom are high risk, both of whom need it -- it's tough to decide who is going to get it -- Bill?
HEMMER: Elizabeth, why does the CDC not have more specific guidelines?
COHEN: Well, up until now, they've never needed to have more specific guidelines. There have really pretty much been enough flu shots for people who are in those high-risk communities, but definitely there are some states that wish that they had some more specific guidelines to help make those decisions.
And the CDC yesterday announced that they are going to hire four ethicists -- have a panel of ethicists -- to help draw up guidelines about how you make a distinction. This was the meeting yesterday at the Centers for Disease Control. That's Julie Gerberding who's head of the CDC. Those ethicists are going to help make decisions when two people need flu shots, how do you decide which one's going to get it.
HEMMER: Let's hope the flu season stays short.
COHEN: That's right. Let's hope it continues to be mild.
HEMMER: Thank you.
COHEN: Thank you.
HEMMER: In a moment, why we should know by Halloween night, that's Sunday night, who is going to win the White House on Tuesday? Jack explains in the "File" right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Last time the Red Sox won a World Series, none of us were here and things cost a whole lot less than they do now. Plus, Wall Street marking a very sad anniversary this day. With that and a market preview, Andy Serwer here "Minding Your Business."
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Thank you. A lot of facts and figures -- we're going to go through them all.
Let's talk about yesterday. First of all, another good day for the market. The Dow was up 113 points. Lower oil prices par of that. This morning, though, jobless claims up a little bit, so futures are flattening out.
As Jack indicated, yes, an unhappy anniversary to you out there. It's the 75th anniversary of Black Monday. The stock market crash -- October 28th, 1929. It was actually a two-day debacle -- October 28th and the 29th. The market crashed 23 percent, falling from 290 to 230. If it happened today, the market would go from 10,000 to 7,700 -- 7,700 if it happened today.
It took 25 years to 1954 for the market to get back up to that level. But you know, slow burns hurt even worse, I think. Remember, the Nasdaq down 70 percent...
CAFFERTY: Right.
SERWER: ... from 2000-2003, that was more painful, I think.
CAFFERTY: Yeah, and it will be centuries before the Nasdaq gets back to where it was.
SERWER: I don't think that's an exaggeration necessarily. It may never...
CAFFERTY: No.
SERWER: ... to 5,000.
CAFFERTY: All right. So, back when the stock market fell, what did it cost to go get a quarter of milk and stuff?
SERWER: Well, back when the Red Sox won the World Series.
CAFFERTY: Oh, that's right. That was even earlier.
SERWER: Yes, that was even earlier -- 1918. Well, here's a couple things. Here's some prices back in 1918. "The Boston Globe" cost two cents. Coke, five. Loaf of bread, the quart of milk -- we were -- here's a couple -- Bill did a couple of these earlier. I got a couple of other ones.
Still fighting World War I. The toaster wasn't invented. Women couldn't vote -- such progress. The population of the United States doubled -- more than doubled from 106 million to 249. Now, of course, we have to root for the Cubs, who last won in 1908 and the White Sox in 1917. So, now it's Chicago's turn to carry that torch.
CAFFERTY: Thanks, Andy. Time for "The Cafferty File." Nicole Kidman's new movie called "Birth" comes out tomorrow. In it, she plays a woman whose dead husband is reincarnated in the form of a 10- year-old boy. Kinky.
Here's the catch -- some people are upset over a particular scene involving her and this young boy in the bathtub together. Kidman says she is not bothered about bathing naked in a child because, quote, "It wasn't really an intimate scene." But you were naked. I believe the boy, she says, is a man, at no point do I ever think he's a genuine boy. The problem, Nicole, is he's a boy.
The kid, who's name is Cameron Bright, has great stories no doubt to tell his schoolmates. But he says he doesn't care about the controversy because, quote, "nothing really happened."
SERWER: Nothing really happened.
O'BRIEN: Well, duh!
CAFFERTY: What kind of a movie did Cameron think he was going to make when Nicole Kidman...
O'BRIEN: Nothing really -- wasn't so bad. Nothing happened.
CAFFERTY: Cameron thought it was going to be something else.
Halloween costumes and the presidential election have something in common. According to -- you know about this, the research company called buycostumes.com -- the candidate whose face sells the most masks before Halloween has won the last six presidential elections. Forget the polls, here is what the Halloween mask report shows -- Bush leading Kerry 54 to 46 percent. The last losing candidate whose face sold the most masks was Gerald Ford in 1976, possibly because he may have had the scariest face of any president we have ever had.
Another company called halloweenonly.com says there's another political figure outpolling both Kerry and Bush -- that would be the Governator, Arnold Schwarzenegger, selling 40 percent of the masks -- Bush just 33, Kerry 27.
O'BRIEN: He's going to be president?
CAFFERTY: No, no, he's -- no. No, he can't be, right?
If you are wondering whose mugs of people not running for president are the most popular, here's the list of the top sellers. And if you're not wondering, we are going to show you anyway.
(CROSSTALK)
CAFFERTY: ... the Trumpster, Elvis, and Howard Stern and Oprah are tied.
A new study conducted by a hospital in Boston -- they actually studied this. They found out that doctors who get more sleep tend to make fewer mistakes...
SERWER: Oh, there you go.
CAFFERTY: ... than doctors who sleep less.
SERWER: Yeah, Mass General.
CAFFERTY: The study looked at 24 student doctors and how well they performed after working under various sleep-deprived scenarios in their rotations. Doctors who slept 5.8 hours more per week were half as likely to nod off while on duty or make serious errors that would harm or kill the patients. There was no significant difference in the number of patients who died, but apparently that was only because the young interns were being monitored by more experienced physicians.
SERWER: That's comforting.
CAFFERTY: You don't want to go to those places, boys and girls, unless you are in really bad shape. You get my drift?
HEMMER: You need a study to tell you that?
CAFFERTY: I mean, come on, doctors who sleep more make fewer mistakes than -- you know, this would account for a lot of what we do here on AMERICAN MORNING -- stay up late and don't get enough sleep.
O'BRIEN: Yes, it would. Thanks, Jack.
Still to come this morning, a major election headache for the State of Florida. How do you lose as many as 58,000 ballots? Oops! That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired October 28, 2004 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. Just about half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING.
New developments this morning in a massive legal fight that could result in thousands of ballots being thrown out on Election Day. It's a very controversial court ruling that's coming in a number of swing sates. We'll take a look at who's leading this legal fight when we check with Jeffrey Toobin.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: In a close election like we're going to see again this year quite possibly, you start to see these warts right now in the system.
O'BRIEN: You see a fight over this, and we haven't gotten to the election yet.
HEMMER: Very true.
O'BRIEN: Ugly.
HEMMER: Tuesday.
Also, the Red Sox basking in the glow. It took them about 16 light years to do it, but they won last night, took the world series four games to none over St. Louis. They are back at Fenway Park. In fact, they arrived just about an hour ago. More reaction from Boston in a moment. Big smiles there in Northeast today for the Red Sox.
O'BRIEN: Just because it took a long time...
HEMMER: That it did, took a very long time.
O'BRIEN: ... doesn't mean it doesn't deserve the victory.
To the headlines now, and Heidi Collins with us today.
Good morning, Heidi.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: How about the fans, though, who have been fans, you know, all along?
HEMMER: How about Ed Fine. Ed Fine is 75 years young. He lives in Concord, New Hampshire. He's the father of our produce, Ted Fine. He's never seen this until now. So to Mr. Fine, congratulations. It was worth the wait, we hope.
COLLINS: Yes, no kidding.
I do want to get to the news now this morning, though.
A decision expected within the next few hours on whether to move Yasser Arafat from his compound. The Israeli minister granted permission, allowing the Palestinian leader seek medical care in Ramallah. A Palestinian official say Arafat is seriously ill and unable to take food, but was able to leave his bed to take part in early-morning prayers this morning.
The first military hearing is set to begin this morning for one of seven U.S. Navy SEALS charged with Iraqi prisoner abuse. The unidentified sailor faces a court-martial on charges he mistreated detainees at Abu Ghraib for a six-month period. A second Navy Seal will face a hearing tomorrow. Their names will be released following those hearings.
And on the campaign trail, President Bush stumping in the Midwest. He'll speak next hour at a rally in Michigan, then heads to Ohio and Pennsylvania. And Senator John Kerry at the University of Toledo in Ohio. He will meet with reporters in Wisconsin this afternoon. Bruce Springsteen expected to join the senator.
So at least we know there will be some good music.
HEMMER: Thank you, Heidi.
O'BRIEN: Thanks, Heidi.
Republicans and Democrats in two key swing states already battling out in court over who gets to cast votes in this year's presidential election and how it should be done -- all this and the election just five days away.
Ken Blackwell is Ohio's Republican secretary of state and Chet Culver is Iowa's Democratic secretary of state.
Ken, let's begin with you. You've actually started off your morning with some bad news. A federal district judge has blocked your attempt to hold a hearing to challenge some 20,000 newly registered voters. How are you feeling about that this morning? And what are you going to do about it?
KEN BLACKWELL (R), OHIO SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, I'm not starting off with any bad news. As I told your folks last night, I didn't have a dog in that fight.
What the court blocked was the state GOP's challenge of some 35,000 voters. Just two days before that, we had already made a decision to allow challenged voters to vote provisionally.
So in Ohio, the ground rules are set. Those who believe that they are legally registered can ask for a provisional ballot if their name is not on their -- the voting rolls in their assigned precinct. And we're going to check that out the way we always have checked it out over a decade. O'BRIEN: Chet, you have gotten some flack for something that you support. Why should people be able to show up where they don't live and cast a ballot?
CHET CULVER (D), IOWA SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, I believe very strongly that our role as election administrators at the state and local level is to help enfranchise people.
And in Iowa, we want to lead the nation in voter participation. We want to lead the nation in election administration.
So my job, my focus...
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: I'm not sure you're answering my question.
Why should they be able to show up and vote in a place where they don't live?
CULVER: Well, I think the Help America Vote Act was intended to actually help Americans vote. And there is a new provision in the Help America Vote Act that calls for a provisional ballot. And I believe every attempt should be made in every state and certainly the great state of Iowa to count those ballots, to count those provisional ballots.
We had 4 million to 6 million people that were disenfranchised in this country in 2000. That should never happen again. And we're focused here in Iowa on enfranchising hopefully a record number of Iowans. We expect 75 percent turnout, and 2.1 million people are registered, which is 95 percent of eligible Iowans.
O'BRIEN: Ken, let's talk about this provisional ballot. Theoretically, you could go and be registered, but your vote might not count, I mean, because in your state some 400,000 ballots could be sort of up in the air. How can this possibly be fair?
BLACKWELL: Well, essentially Ohio law has said for over a decade that anyone can get a provisional ballot, but you must cast it in one of three places: in your assigned precinct, at the board of elections, or at a regional center if one has been designated.
The objective there is to make it as easy to vote for all legally registered voters, but to also protect against widespread voter fraud. We must protect the integrity of the election so that people really believe that the result on Election Day actually reflects the authentic will of the voting public.
I can tell you right now, in Ohio, we don't have a system of voters without borders. We have one that says that everybody should be allowed to cast a ballot, but there is a process of converting that ballot to a legal vote. And it's fair, it's worked and the courts have upheld our system consistently.
O'BRIEN: Chet, the Justice Department is dispatching 1,000 federal election observers, which I guess could be dispatched really anywhere around the country. Do you welcome that?
CULVER: I think if we dispatch election officials or people from the Department of Justice we should be focusing on preventing voter suppression, we should be focusing on enfranchisement, doing everything we can to increase turnout.
We have to remember that 4 million to 6 million people in 2000 were unnecessarily disenfranchised. The provisional ballot is an attempt to help people as a safety net to make sure that every vote in this country is counted and counted accurately.
So I wish we would spend most of our time here down the home stretch on plans to protect voters in this country, to encourage people to get out, and to make sure if anything happens at the precinct, that their rights as American citizens and as voters in this state and country are protected.
That's where our focus needs to be. The provisional ballot was put in place to protect people. We had 2 million to 3 million people that showed up in 2000 that weren't given a provisional ballot. We didn't have a provisional ballot in most states in 2000.
So we need to look out for the voters' rights. And I am very encouraged about doing that right here in Iowa and we are very, very excited about Election Day.
O'BRIEN: Ken, we only have a few seconds.
There is a sense of, you know, we can send a man to the moon and we can't figure this out with the state of technology that we have today. Why are we having this debate that we had four years ago? Why isn't this resolved and each person gets one vote and it's straightforward?
BLACKWELL: I think, Soledad, most of us really do understand that elections are human enterprises. So in the state of Ohio, we have 45,000 poll workers and election officials over 88 counties. You are going to have a hiccup here or a hiccup there.
What you manage against is systematic choking, and we in fact have always managed against that in the state of Ohio. We believe that anyone who is legally registered to vote will be given the right to vote and have that vote counted. But we will protect the system against widespread fraud so that everybody believes that the final count is a real count and nobody's vote has been devalued because of counterfeit votes.
CULVER: I just want to add one thing.
O'BRIEN: You have two seconds to do it.
CULVER: We didn't have problems with voter fraud in this country in 2000; we had problems with people being unnecessarily disenfranchised, 4 million to 6 million people.
Let's focus on turnout, voter registration and hopefully having a record turnout in the United States with 120 million Americans on November 2nd.
O'BRIEN: That's a long two seconds. That's the final word this morning.
Thanks, guys -- Bill.
HEMMER: Really good discussion. Let's continue it now with our senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin back with me here.
Good morning to you.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: That was great. I mean, that was just fascinating.
HEMMER: Do you buy 75 percent turnout in the state of Iowa?
TOOBIN: That's awfully high. Iowa is a state like a lot in sort of the upper Midwest has traditionally high turnout, but 75 would be extraordinary. But this is one of the great mysteries about Tuesday. Passions are so high, voter registration is so high, we really may see turnout on the order of 75 percent in some states.
HEMMER: If that's the case though, can polling stations handle that load?
TOOBIN: Well, that's -- again, we don't really know. Plus, the question is, the really big question is, what is going to happen at those polling places? The tension surrounding this election is so great, and there are so many observers from both parties who will be at the polling place, the fights over who gets to vote and who's registered could be very dramatic, very intense. And they could delay voting.
HEMMER: Give me an example. You're working a polling station. You're working for a particular party. I walk in, and you look at me and you think I'm suspicion. You think perhaps my vote should not help because I'm not legal in what sense. And what do you say to me?
TOOBIN: It's not necessarily that I don't like your look. That's not a legitimate reason to question you. The issue is, OK, I say my name is Jeffrey Toobin and I live at such and such a place. Where is your ID? Well, I forgot my ID. It varies by state about what kind of ID is acceptable.
I don't have a driver's license. Maybe I have a utility bill. Is a utility bill good enough? The Democrat says yes, the Republican say no. What if a middle initial -- I have it on my driver's license, I don't have it on my registration.
HEMMER: Do have you an obligation, then, to send me to another precinct where I can cast a legal ballot?
TOOBIN: You know, under the new law, you have the right to file a provisional ballot. But the question is: Will the provisional ballot be counted? That we don't know until they start counting them later on that night or perhaps the following day. But those are the kind of fights we're going to see. And I really think people need to be calm at these voting stations, because I think the passions are going to be incredibly high.
HEMMER: Well, here's another scenario. Just thinking about it, in St. Louis -- the St. Louis area back in 2000, remember the lines were so long they went to a judge to try to keep the polling stations open later, and the judge turned down that request.
TOOBIN: I think the judge actually allowed it in certain circumstances but not others. St. Louis, that's one of the things that Senator Bond, who was the sponsor of the Help America Vote Act, he was enraged about was how he thought the Democrats tried to steal the election in St. Louis. And he is the Mr. Anti-fraud.
And you heard from the secretaries of state, the Republicans are talking about fraud, the Democrats are talking about voter suppression.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jeff.
TOOBIN: It's going to be a great night.
HEMMER: It's going to be a long night. Here's Soledad.
O'BRIEN: You know it is.
You know where else it was a long night? In Boston, where they are still partying. The Sox are back in Boston. The team arrived in Beantown to celebrate their World Series victory with fans. The Sox, of course, beating the St. Louis Cardinals to win their first World Series in, oh, just about 86 years. Happy, happy, joy, joy -- the curse has been reversed.
Time to check in on the weather and Rob Marciano in for Chad Myers. He's at the CNN Center for us. Hello, again.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: thank you very much, Rob.
HEMMER: We should have gone to Chicago this week.
O'BRIEN: It was nice when we were there last week, too.
HEMMER: Thanks, Rob. Yeah.
O'BRIEN: Nice shot there that they were able to show (INAUDIBLE) there.
Still to come this morning, big anniversary nobody on Wall Street wants to celebrate. Andy has got that just ahead.
HEMMER: Also, when you -- just when you thought you knew who was supposed to get a flu shot and who was not, some states changing the rules. We'll get to that in a moment as we continue right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Sanjay is on vacation this week; the flu vaccine is not. It may be in short supply, but so far so is the flu. And that is very good news. The CDC reporting a slow start to the season.
Elizabeth Cohen at the CNN Center with more on this and the flu shot shortage situation. Good morning there, Elizabeth.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill. And that is, indeed, good news, but there's also some sobering news today -- a growing recognition that there simply aren't enough flu shots at this point for the high-risk group. That's the group of people who the CDC says really need these shots. There don't appear to be enough to go around.
And that's why you are seeing the long lines, for example, in New Jersey. And that's why the New Jersey governor just signed into law that there will be a fine, a $500 fine, if people are giving flu shots to people who don't need them.
Now, let's take a look at who is supposed to get a flu shot -- children ages six to 23 months, adults 65 years and older, people with chronic medical conditions, all women who will be pregnant during the flu season, healthcare workers, and also household contacts of babies -- those people who live with babies ages zero to six months. Those babies are too young to get flu shots, so the people who live wit them are supposed to get flu shots.
And as I said, growing recognition that, at this point, there simply aren't enough shots for even that group, for even those people who are supposed to get them. So, different states are taking different measures.
For example, you have in Massachusetts, New Jersey, and Maryland, communities in those three states are having flu shot lotteries. In Kansas and Montana, some communities in those states are prioritizing medical conditions over age. In other words, that they'll say to a 66-year-old person, "Yes, you're in the age range, but you're healthy. Let's give it to this diabetic 21-year-old." They're having to make those kind of distinctions in some communities in that state.
Also in North Carolina, they are saying to women, "You have to be pregnant now in order to get a flu shot. Just because you say you plan on being pregnant later in the flu season, let's say in January, that's not good enough. We won't give you your flu shot."
And so, that's what those communities are doing, because it's tough to make a decision. Two people come to get a flu shot, both of whom are high risk, both of whom need it -- it's tough to decide who is going to get it -- Bill?
HEMMER: Elizabeth, why does the CDC not have more specific guidelines?
COHEN: Well, up until now, they've never needed to have more specific guidelines. There have really pretty much been enough flu shots for people who are in those high-risk communities, but definitely there are some states that wish that they had some more specific guidelines to help make those decisions.
And the CDC yesterday announced that they are going to hire four ethicists -- have a panel of ethicists -- to help draw up guidelines about how you make a distinction. This was the meeting yesterday at the Centers for Disease Control. That's Julie Gerberding who's head of the CDC. Those ethicists are going to help make decisions when two people need flu shots, how do you decide which one's going to get it.
HEMMER: Let's hope the flu season stays short.
COHEN: That's right. Let's hope it continues to be mild.
HEMMER: Thank you.
COHEN: Thank you.
HEMMER: In a moment, why we should know by Halloween night, that's Sunday night, who is going to win the White House on Tuesday? Jack explains in the "File" right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Last time the Red Sox won a World Series, none of us were here and things cost a whole lot less than they do now. Plus, Wall Street marking a very sad anniversary this day. With that and a market preview, Andy Serwer here "Minding Your Business."
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Thank you. A lot of facts and figures -- we're going to go through them all.
Let's talk about yesterday. First of all, another good day for the market. The Dow was up 113 points. Lower oil prices par of that. This morning, though, jobless claims up a little bit, so futures are flattening out.
As Jack indicated, yes, an unhappy anniversary to you out there. It's the 75th anniversary of Black Monday. The stock market crash -- October 28th, 1929. It was actually a two-day debacle -- October 28th and the 29th. The market crashed 23 percent, falling from 290 to 230. If it happened today, the market would go from 10,000 to 7,700 -- 7,700 if it happened today.
It took 25 years to 1954 for the market to get back up to that level. But you know, slow burns hurt even worse, I think. Remember, the Nasdaq down 70 percent...
CAFFERTY: Right.
SERWER: ... from 2000-2003, that was more painful, I think.
CAFFERTY: Yeah, and it will be centuries before the Nasdaq gets back to where it was.
SERWER: I don't think that's an exaggeration necessarily. It may never...
CAFFERTY: No.
SERWER: ... to 5,000.
CAFFERTY: All right. So, back when the stock market fell, what did it cost to go get a quarter of milk and stuff?
SERWER: Well, back when the Red Sox won the World Series.
CAFFERTY: Oh, that's right. That was even earlier.
SERWER: Yes, that was even earlier -- 1918. Well, here's a couple things. Here's some prices back in 1918. "The Boston Globe" cost two cents. Coke, five. Loaf of bread, the quart of milk -- we were -- here's a couple -- Bill did a couple of these earlier. I got a couple of other ones.
Still fighting World War I. The toaster wasn't invented. Women couldn't vote -- such progress. The population of the United States doubled -- more than doubled from 106 million to 249. Now, of course, we have to root for the Cubs, who last won in 1908 and the White Sox in 1917. So, now it's Chicago's turn to carry that torch.
CAFFERTY: Thanks, Andy. Time for "The Cafferty File." Nicole Kidman's new movie called "Birth" comes out tomorrow. In it, she plays a woman whose dead husband is reincarnated in the form of a 10- year-old boy. Kinky.
Here's the catch -- some people are upset over a particular scene involving her and this young boy in the bathtub together. Kidman says she is not bothered about bathing naked in a child because, quote, "It wasn't really an intimate scene." But you were naked. I believe the boy, she says, is a man, at no point do I ever think he's a genuine boy. The problem, Nicole, is he's a boy.
The kid, who's name is Cameron Bright, has great stories no doubt to tell his schoolmates. But he says he doesn't care about the controversy because, quote, "nothing really happened."
SERWER: Nothing really happened.
O'BRIEN: Well, duh!
CAFFERTY: What kind of a movie did Cameron think he was going to make when Nicole Kidman...
O'BRIEN: Nothing really -- wasn't so bad. Nothing happened.
CAFFERTY: Cameron thought it was going to be something else.
Halloween costumes and the presidential election have something in common. According to -- you know about this, the research company called buycostumes.com -- the candidate whose face sells the most masks before Halloween has won the last six presidential elections. Forget the polls, here is what the Halloween mask report shows -- Bush leading Kerry 54 to 46 percent. The last losing candidate whose face sold the most masks was Gerald Ford in 1976, possibly because he may have had the scariest face of any president we have ever had.
Another company called halloweenonly.com says there's another political figure outpolling both Kerry and Bush -- that would be the Governator, Arnold Schwarzenegger, selling 40 percent of the masks -- Bush just 33, Kerry 27.
O'BRIEN: He's going to be president?
CAFFERTY: No, no, he's -- no. No, he can't be, right?
If you are wondering whose mugs of people not running for president are the most popular, here's the list of the top sellers. And if you're not wondering, we are going to show you anyway.
(CROSSTALK)
CAFFERTY: ... the Trumpster, Elvis, and Howard Stern and Oprah are tied.
A new study conducted by a hospital in Boston -- they actually studied this. They found out that doctors who get more sleep tend to make fewer mistakes...
SERWER: Oh, there you go.
CAFFERTY: ... than doctors who sleep less.
SERWER: Yeah, Mass General.
CAFFERTY: The study looked at 24 student doctors and how well they performed after working under various sleep-deprived scenarios in their rotations. Doctors who slept 5.8 hours more per week were half as likely to nod off while on duty or make serious errors that would harm or kill the patients. There was no significant difference in the number of patients who died, but apparently that was only because the young interns were being monitored by more experienced physicians.
SERWER: That's comforting.
CAFFERTY: You don't want to go to those places, boys and girls, unless you are in really bad shape. You get my drift?
HEMMER: You need a study to tell you that?
CAFFERTY: I mean, come on, doctors who sleep more make fewer mistakes than -- you know, this would account for a lot of what we do here on AMERICAN MORNING -- stay up late and don't get enough sleep.
O'BRIEN: Yes, it would. Thanks, Jack.
Still to come this morning, a major election headache for the State of Florida. How do you lose as many as 58,000 ballots? Oops! That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
