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American Morning

Insurgent Stronghold of Falluja Now in U.S. Hands; Public Outcry in Miami

Aired November 15, 2004 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


RICK SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The insurgent stronghold of Falluja now in U.S. hands. But what dangers lie ahead for Americans that are fighting there?
A bit of a public outcry in Miami after police admit to a second incident of using stun guns on kids.

And tourists at the bottom of the Atlantic who are destroying the Titanic, trying to protect an important piece of history on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.

SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody.

I'm Rick Sanchez sitting in for Bill this morning.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Heidi Collins in for Soledad.

Some of the other stories that we're following this morning, now that the verdict has been reached in the Scott Peterson trial, what can we expect in the penalty phase? We're going to talk with Amber Frey's attorney, Gloria Allred, get her reaction and find out what the former mistress thinks should happen now.

SANCHEZ: Also, can the CIA's new director, Porter Goss, try and calm some of the internal tensions at the agency or does he even want to? We're going to talk about some sudden high level resignations and what they could possibly signal. Is the turnover coming at just the wrong time? An interesting way of putting that, wouldn't you say?

COLLINS: And now it is time for Jack Cafferty -- good morning.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Heidi.

Coming up in the "Cafferty File," we'll show you CNN host James Carville smashing an egg on his face on national television yesterday.

COLLINS: That was great.

CAFFERTY: It's a pretty funny tape, actually.

And why big butted mannequins are sweeping the nation. Here's a hint -- think J. Lo. Big old plastic cabooses on their mannequins.

COLLINS: Oh, did you just say big butted mannequins?

CAFFERTY: You know what? The producer -- my producer, who is a 27-year-old angelic woman from the West Coast of the United States had written big-assed mannequins and I said --

SANCHEZ: No!

CAFFERTY: ... we need to change that. And she said, "You can say that. It's OK." So I actually...

COLLINS: Well, you've said it now.

CAFFERTY: I actually toned it down to big butted mannequins from her version.

COLLINS: I see.

SANCHEZ: Which is probably the first thing you've ever toned down, right?

CAFFERTY: That's cute. Who is this guy and where is Hemmer?

COLLINS: All right, Jack, we will hear from you...

SANCHEZ: Oh, sorry about that, guy.

COLLINS: ... once again, many more times, I'm sure, throughout the show.

Thank you.

We are now going to check, though, on the stories now in the news this morning.

Daryn Kagan at the CNN Center once again -- Daryn, good morning.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm here to break things up for you guys.

Now in the news, there are reports of a mortar attack in southern Baghdad. Emergency crews say that at least seven people, including women and children, are among the wounded. Further north, military sources saying that four Americans were injured earlier today in arms fire from the mosque in the city of Ba'qubah. The soldiers are in stable condition. We'll have the latest on the fighting in Falluja in just a moment.

A U.S. soldier is being accused of plotting to kill Iraqis. According to military sources, a soldier from Fort Riley in Kansas has been charged with premeditated murder and conspiracy to commit murder. The events surrounding the charges are under investigation.

Iran says that its decision to suspend its uranium enrichment program is voluntary. The Iranian government said the suspension was part of a deal with the European Union to avoid possible U.N. sanctions. It could take several days for international inspectors to examine and shut down Iran's nuclear program.

And here in the U.S., a new immigration security program is being put to the test at border crossings. The Department of Homeland Security is expanding its program, which fingerprints, photographs and runs checks on many non-American visitors. So cities in Texas, Arizona and Michigan will start the program today. The technology has been in place at airports and seaports since January.

Rick -- back to you.

SANCHEZ: Daryn Kagan, thank you, my friend.

KAGAN: You are welcome.

SANCHEZ: My partner.

American troops are still battling fierce groups of insurgents remaining in Falluja. But the city believed to be the principal base of the insurgency is mostly under U.S. and Iraqi control at this time.

Karl Penhaul, he's in Baghdad this morning, following the scene not only there, but all over the country, where, Karl, there seems to be increased insurgency in other places now, like Ramadi, for example.

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It certainly looks that way, Rick.

I mean initially we have heard, over the last few hours, upbeat assessments from U.S. commanders on the ground in Falluja. In their words, they've now liberated that city.

That doesn't, though, stop there being ongoing fighting against some of the pockets of insurgents, small cells fighting three, four and five man groups, from what we understand. That is still ongoing.

Also, the U.S. military has brought us up to date periodically on military casualties in this conflict. But what we haven't heard yet is any exact specification of how many civilians have been wounded here or even how many civilians may have died in this conflict. We do know, of course, that there have been civilian casualties and would expect to get a better read on that as the fighting dies down and as civilians venture out into the streets.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Through the lens of a TV camera, the fight for Falluja looks like a war movie: "Apocalypse Now," "Platoon" or "Full Metal Jacket." You hear the sound of the shooting, but you're spared the sound of the sobbing of innocents trapped in the crossfire, the sobbing of women like Suhar Mohammed Abdullah (ph). She says her mother was killed, her cousin and uncle wounded and that she took bullets to her arm and leg.

SUHAR MOHAMMED ABDULLAH (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): We left the house around 2:30 p.m. with a car to go to my uncle's house near Abdullah Aziz Mosque. We thought it would be safer there, but when we reached the area, U.S. snipers started shooting.

PENHAUL: Prior to the assault, coalition forces dropped leaflets ordering Falluja's civilians not to drive in an effort to defend against suicide car bombs. U.S. troops have occupied some of Falluja's mosques, but the U.S. military was not immediately able to confirm Suhar's account. The U.S. troops opened fire from Abdul Aziz Mosque.

It's clear, though, the Americans were first on the scene to give her family first aid. U.S. troops shuttled them via Humvees and ambulances to this Baghdad hospital. The Iraqi Health Ministry has given no consolidated figures on the civilian toll in Falluja. Doctors here at Baghdad's Medical City say they've so far treated at least 25 wounded civilians. Staff at a U.S. military hospital say they've treated more than 30 others.

This Iraqi Red Crescent aid convoy has so far been unable to enter the city because it's still too dangerous.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

PENHAUL: Now, as you mentioned, Rick, as the situation in Falluja seems to come under U.S. military control there, there have been flare-ups in violence elsewhere. Mosul, over the last several days, has been one of these flashpoints. In the last few moments we've heard at a press conference from the Iraqi interior ministry that three or four police stations are still in insurgent hands. We even heard that yesterday one police officer who had been wounded in some of the fighting was dragged from his hospital bed where he was recovering, was mutilated and hung from a lamp post by insurgents.

The U.S. military, however, say the situation in Mosul is largely under control.

In addition to Mosul, a bit closer to Baghdad, in the city of Ba'qubah, just north of where we are, there have been a number of clashes throughout the morning. Groups of insurgents firing both on U.S. soldiers and on Iraqi security forces there. We understand those clashes are still ongoing. What we do know so far, though, is four U.S. soldiers have been wounded so far in fighting there -- Rick.

SANCHEZ: Karl Penhaul bringing us the very latest on this Iraqi insurgency.

We thank you, Karl -- Heidi, over to you.

COLLINS: Starting next Monday, jurors in the Scott Peterson case will hear testimony to decide whether Peterson should receive the death penalty or life in prison. Peterson was convicted Friday in the murder of his wife Laci and their unborn child.

With us now to talk about the verdict is Gloria Allred, the lawyer for Amber Frey, who testified to having an affair with Scott Peterson.

Now, Gloria, we know that you were in the courtroom. But Amber Frey was not. And I know you've spoken to her.

What was her reaction when this verdict first came down?

GLORIA ALLRED, AMBER FREY'S ATTORNEY: Well, it was a very emotional day for her, Heidi, as I'm sure you can understand, because her feelings toward Scott Peterson are very complicated, and she's been through a lot. But she's always said that it was for the jury to decide and that god would be the ultimate judge. And that's exactly what happened.

COLLINS: We also know that Amber Frey's father, Ron, was on "LARRY KING LIVE," that was on Friday, as well.

Let's go ahead and listen to his thoughts about the death penalty here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM CNN'S "LARRY KING LIVE")

RON FREY, AMBER FREY'S FATHER: I wish Mr. Scott Peterson would tell how he killed Laci and I hope the court would show mercy on him then.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Does Amber believe Scott Peterson should live or die?

ALLRED: Well, Amber doesn't believe that it's appropriate for her to be stating what her opinion is at this time because the jurors are going to consider the evidence and only the evidence that they hear in the death penalty phase, and they'll be hearing from the victims' family, from Sharon Rocha and other members of Laci Peterson's family. They'll also be hearing, probably, from the family of Scott Peterson. And then based on all of the evidence that is before them, then they'll have to decide to weigh the aggravating circumstances versus the mitigating circumstances and decide whether they should sentence him to death or life in prison without the possibility of parole.

And I don't think it's really appropriate for Amber to be stating what her opinion is unless and until she's called as a witness.

COLLINS: How important, though, as you look back over the course of this trial, how important was her testimony in this case?

ALLRED: Well, I think it was very important because she did agree to assist law enforcement by taping the telephone calls with Scott Peterson after Laci disappeared, many, many hours of calls, many of which were played in the courtroom. As a result of hearing all of those calls, I think it caused a seismic shift in the way the public and the jury looked at Scott Peterson. They saw that he was a liar. And there's no way after that that Scott Peterson could have taken the witness stand. They heard, Heidi, on the tapes Scott Peterson acknowledging that he had said to Amber, "I've lost my wife and these will be these will be the first holidays without her before Laci ever went missing." They heard him talking to Amber about wanting to have a future with her, wanting to be with her forever. So they heard quite a bit about Scott Peterson.

COLLINS: All right, we've got to get to this question now. We've already chatted about it a little bit here on the show this morning. But Mark Geragos was not there when this verdict was read.

Was it that big of a surprise? I mean where was he?

ALLRED: Well, that's the question. And I just wonder, was it a satanic cult that caused him not to be able to be there? Was he abducted by the homeless or sexual predators? I don't know. Maybe he just had other priorities or other responsibilities.

COLLINS: Touche.

We do know, as we have said, that the penalty phase of this trial is going to begin pretty quickly, November 22.

How likely is it that Amber Frey will go to the stand and speak once again?

ALLRED: Heidi, I don't think it's likely that the prosecution is going to be calling her as a witness and now I'm hearing reports in newspapers that have not checked with me saying that the defense is intending to call her. But, you know, the defense, Mark Geragos said he was going to call her in the preliminary hearing and he didn't. Then he said he was going to recall her as his witness in the trial, and he didn't.

So now if the defense is saying that they're going to call Amber Frey, I think it's highly unlikely. They certainly haven't notified me about that nor have they notified Amber.

COLLINS: Very quickly, appeal here?

ALLRED: I think it's very likely that Scott Peterson, yes, would be appealing and, in fact, an absolutely certainty that he would. He had an appellate attorney in the courtroom. There will be many grounds alleged on appeal. He'll probably argue that the second degree murder instruction should not have been given, that they should have been able to do their boat video demonstration, although the judge apparently decided that it wasn't the same or similar circumstances.

COLLINS: Right.

ALLRED: And, of course, they'll talk about the dismissal of the two jurors and perhaps argue that at least one should not have been dismissed.

COLLINS: More to come, indeed.

ALLRED: Yes.

COLLINS: Gloria Allred, appreciate your legal expertise, as always. ALLRED: Thanks.

Nice to be here, Heidi.

COLLINS: Thanks so much.

ALLRED: Thank you.

COLLINS: Rick.

SANCHEZ: Thank you, ladies.

Now police in Miami plan to hold a news conference later today over the controversial use of these taser guns on two children in recent weeks.

Susan Candiotti has more.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The second taser incident involving a child was publicly revealed only after CNN first reported on a 6-year old being jolted, even though both cases were known to authorities. This 12-year old girl was also tasered.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I felt like I couldn't breathe and I was like nervous and I was scared at the same time.

CANDIOTTI: Police say she was playing hooky from school, drinking and swimming with friends in a pool. After breaking it up, an officer gave chase. According to a police report, he advised her to stop several times, but she didn't, to the point of starting to run into lanes of traffic.

About two weeks earlier, this first grader was tasered at school. He was holding a piece of broken glass, allegedly about to cut his leg. Police insist two officers and others there had no other choice.

DET. JUAN DEL CASTILLO, MIAMI-DADE FLORIDA POLICE: We're happy that we're here talking about this as opposed to an injury that he might have caused himself with that piece of glass.

CANDIOTTI: After the quick 50,000 volt jolt, the boy's family says he threw up.

KATHY ALLEN, MOTHER: If there's three officers, it's nothing to tell a 6-year old holding a glass, if you feel threatened, hey, here's a piece of candy. Hey, here's a toy. You know, let the glass go.

CANDIOTTI: Both incidents have created an outcry. Florida's governor was asked about it.

GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: I don't know the circumstances of why adults couldn't control a six-year old.

CANDIOTTI (on camera): While Miami-Dade police defend using a taser on a 6-year old boy, they question using a taser on a child playing hooky. However, they refuse to answer any more questions until Monday.

(voice-over): Community activists are calling for a meeting with police.

GEORGIA AYERS, COMMUNITY ACTIVIST: There needs to be more in- depth study on using the taser on children. Paragraph ended.

CANDIOTTI: Miami Police Chief John Timoney has questions about his sister agency's taser policy and says he's uncomfortable about using tasers on children, especially in school.

JOHN TIMONEY, CHIEF, MIAMI DADE POLICE: You're arming them just to deal with unruly students. I mean, that's...

CANDIOTTI: Taser International says more than 5,000 police agencies nationwide use their product and insist it has tested safe for anyone weighing at least 60 pounds. Yet tasers on children remain controversial. And in South Florida, policies on their use are under review.

Susan Candiotti, CNN, Miami.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

SANCHEZ: We should add, as a caveat to that story, that there's talk now of disciplining the officer in the incident involving the 12- year-old girl, specifically.

COLLINS: We want to go ahead and get a check on the weather now.

Chad Myers at the CNN Center with the very latest forecast -- good morning, Chad.

Hey, I've got to tell you.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes?

COLLINS: We had snow at my house, my new house in New Jersey, over the weekend.

MYERS: Really?

COLLINS: I was shocked.

Yes.

MYERS: Well, yes, you should have been.

COLLINS: Was it just my house?

MYERS: It was. It was just your house.

It's going to be a cold day at your house when...

COLLINS: Yes.

MYERS: Anyway...

(WEATHER REPORT)

COLLINS: The lost city of Atlantis may have been found. An American archeologist says the kingdom lies at the bottom of the Mediterranean Sea near Cyprus. On his boat this weekend, Robert Sarmast said he's found manmade walls underwater that match descriptions written by the great philosopher Plato in the third century B.C. Other archeologists say more proof is needed. The legend goes that the kingdom of Atlantis, a culturally and technologically advanced society, was swallowed by the sea in a single day and night after an earthquake 10,000 years before the common area.

Remember "Man From Atlantis?"

SANCHEZ: Yes.

COLLINS: I loved that show.

SANCHEZ: Good.

Still to come, we're going to stay underwater and try to hide. It's Titanic revealed. It turns out the search for the legendary shipwreck had more to do with national security than the quest for knowledge. We're going to talk to the man who found the Titanic almost 20 years ago. That's him. Go ahead, give us a wink, Robert Ballard. All right.

COLLINS: Also, would be assassin John Hinckley wants more freedom. His relationship with an old girlfriend could be the key.

SANCHEZ: Also, new CIA Director Porter Goss is already making waves. So what's the real reason behind his appointment? We're going to look at that and so much more.

This is your AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back, everyone.

You know, it's been almost 20 years since he discovered the Titanic in 1985. Now in a new book, "Return To Titanic," it's really a new look at the world's most famous lost ship and what's gone on in those past couple of decades.

Explorer Dr. Robert Ballard details his June 2004 expedition to study the deterioration of the wreckage. Also, he's got some surprising secrets about the Titanic that were just recently declassified. According to this declassified information, when we were being told by our government that they were trying to study the Titanic, they were actually doing something else.

Tell our viewers what that was.

ROBERT BALLARD, EXPLORER/OCEANOGRAPHER, AUTHOR, "RETURN TO TITANIC": Well, there it is, the Scorpion. Our program was to not only explore the Titanic, but the technology was actually to explore the USS Scorpion and the USS Thresher, which were two nuclear submarines we lost during the cold war.

SANCHEZ: So our government, our U.S. Navy, which you were a part of, right, at that time?

BALLARD: Thirty-three years.

SANCHEZ: They were telling the public, look, we're doing this special expedition down in the Atlantic where we're looking for the Titanic, they weren't looking for the Atlantic. They were trying to get information on the Russians and the USSR, right?

BALLARD: Well, they were really concerned whether the Soviets were going to our downed submarines, because they had nuclear weapons on them, they had nuclear reactors and we obviously, during the cold war, were really concerned about what the Soviets might be doing. And it was also a way, as you'll see in the "National Geographic" special that's on December 16, it -- the Navy really declassified it, so they were sending the Soviets a message.

SANCHEZ: You and I have to talk a lot about the possible deterioration of the Titanic. But before we get to that, I know you delve into this in your great book, which is worth buying, if nothing else for the pictures alone, because it's so eerie. But was it the iceberg and the gash caused on the side of the ship that did bring it down?

BALLARD: Absolutely. I mean...

SANCHEZ: No question about that?

BALLARD: It sank. It hit an iceberg and that was it.

SANCHEZ: Let me move to the lifeboats, then.

Why weren't there enough of them?

BALLARD: Well, you know, it was obeying the law. They didn't have to -- believe it or not, back then you didn't have to carry enough lifeboats for all the people aboard. So, but...

SANCHEZ: What does that mean? That only some of these people are worth saving?

BALLARD: Well, the first class, evidently.

SANCHEZ: Oh my goodness.

BALLARD: My since then, lots of laws have been written as a result of the loss of the Titanic. And creation of the International Ice Patrol, so they would actually be following icebergs. Radio operators who would stay up, you know, 24 hours a day. So the Titanic led to a lot of new laws. SANCHEZ: You've been going back in the last 20 years or so and now you've just recently gone back to see what effect all this study and all this tourist stuff has had on this ship.

BALLARD: Yes.

SANCHEZ: And you don't like what you've seen, right?

BALLARD: Well, as you can see, there's a lot of damage that's been done to the Titanic; some of it naturally, some of it -- but a lot of it by submarines, like here. A submarine crashed into the first officer's cabin. So Titanic is really being loved to death. And what we're trying to do through this "National Geographic" TV special and also the book and the magazine story is to draw attention to the Titanic and try to get other nations to sign the new treaty.

There's a new treaty that the United States and England have signed. We're trying to get Russia and France to sign it, because it's their submarines that are doing most of the sub damage to the ship.

SANCHEZ: What kind of treaty? Do they have...

BALLARD: That you can go...

SANCHEZ: ... the statistics -- like a paparazzi rule?

BALLARD: Exactly. It's sort of like going to the Arizona in Pearl Harbor. Why should the Titanic not be treated like the Arizona in Pearl Harbor? You go there but you don't take belt buckles off the ship.

SANCHEZ: Well, you've come up with something that I think is really cool. You've got a way for people to check out the Titanic any time they want. And to dive all the way down there, they don't have to leave their living rooms.

BALLARD: Exactly. In fact, when we did this special on the "National Geographic" channel, we came live from the deck of the Titanic.

SANCHEZ: Wow!

BALLARD: We're now installing undersea camera systems in NOAH's national marine sanctuaries. You can sit in my office in Connecticut and drive undersea robots in Monterey Bay's kelp forest right now. So we see the day will come when undersea robots will be the way that you visit it, and you'll visit it whenever you want to. So it's (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

SANCHEZ: So it's kind of like a pool camera like we use in our business.

BALLARD: Exactly.

SANCHEZ: In other words, instead of having 50 yahoos down there trumping all over each other...

BALLARD: That's right.

SANCHEZ: Like this couple that got married down there...

BALLARD: On the bow.

SANCHEZ: And left a mark, right?

BALLARD: They crushed the deck. In fact, you'll see it as we come along here, right there.

SANCHEZ: That's it right there at the front of the deck?

BALLARD: This is the shot where they actually...

SANCHEZ: Where they actually went through, correct?

BALLARD: ... they ran -- well, see if the submarines are very clumsy. And if you land on the deck, you crush it; if you bump into it. We have no problem with people visiting the Titanic. We think it's wonderful. Just don't destroy it.

SANCHEZ: Now, you have had a big part in so many different discoveries -- the Bismarck, the Yorktown, JFK P.T. 109.

What's left for you to do? I mean...

BALLARD: Oh, there's so much. We've just started a new program at the University of Rhode Island, where I'm a professor.

SANCHEZ: Yes?

BALLARD: In archeological oceanography, we think the deep sea is the largest museum on earth, that there's more history in the deep sea than all the museums of the world combined and our biggest concern is, yes, the Titanic, but we're really worried about ancient antiquity that's really at peril now.

SANCHEZ: Why? Why is that important to us?

BALLARD: Well, because it's our history. We think there's more than one million time capsules in the deep sea and there's no rules governing them. It's like having a museum with the doors open and the question is do you go through the doors of the deep sea's museum to appreciate or to plunder them? And the jury is out.

SANCHEZ: Robert Ballard.

BALLARD: A pleasure.

SANCHEZ: Great having you.

BALLARD: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Thanks. A wonderful discussion.

Let's go over to Heidi -- Heidi, are you there?

COLLINS: Still to come this morning, a new study may shed some light on the possible cause of childhood autism. What does it say about a possible link to children's vaccines? We're "Paging Dr. Gupta" ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Jack Cafferty here now and the Question of the Day once again.

CAFFERTY: Thanks, Heidi.

Scott Peterson, convicted of murdering his wife and unborn son. Now the penalty phase will be decided by the same jury that convicted him.

The question we're asking this morning is whether or not Scott Peterson ought to get the death penalty or should he spend life in the general prison population, where he has a good chance of being the prom queen weekly?

Mike in Columbus, Mississippi: "This man has cost the taxpayers of California millions of dollars already without having to feed him and give him flu shots for the rest of his life. Erase him, like he did his wife and unborn son."

John in Madison, Wisconsin: "Jack, I am so tired of trials as theater. I'm all for the death penalty for producers and reporters who bring me this stuff."

You have a point there, John.

Jan in Locust Grove, Virginia: "I agree with you, Jack. Let the boy dance for his supper. And imagine how kind the other fellows will be to a guy who murdered a woman and child. Let him have a long life and suffer every minute of it."

Rich in Westin, Missouri: "But for the pesky constitutional ban on cruel and unusual punishment, I'd come up with some better ideas. But for now, fry him."

COLLINS: And did you hear what Gloria Allred said about, we were wondering...

CAFFERTY: No, I didn't.

COLLINS: We were wondering about where Geragos was when this verdict came down.

CAFFERTY: Yes?

COLLINS: She said that she had hoped that he hadn't been taken by a satanic cult. That's what she said.

CAFFERTY: Gloria said that?

COLLINS: Yes, she did.

CAFFERTY: Yes, I missed it.

SANCHEZ: In a moment, some of the Marines in Falluja are talking, including one whose skull was cracked by a sniper's bullet. You're going to be surprised to hear how he describes it all. He's going to talk to us.

Also, would be assassin John Hinckley wants more freedom. Whether he gets it may hinge on an old relationship. We'll tell you what that is right here on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired November 15, 2004 - 08:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The insurgent stronghold of Falluja now in U.S. hands. But what dangers lie ahead for Americans that are fighting there?
A bit of a public outcry in Miami after police admit to a second incident of using stun guns on kids.

And tourists at the bottom of the Atlantic who are destroying the Titanic, trying to protect an important piece of history on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.

SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody.

I'm Rick Sanchez sitting in for Bill this morning.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Heidi Collins in for Soledad.

Some of the other stories that we're following this morning, now that the verdict has been reached in the Scott Peterson trial, what can we expect in the penalty phase? We're going to talk with Amber Frey's attorney, Gloria Allred, get her reaction and find out what the former mistress thinks should happen now.

SANCHEZ: Also, can the CIA's new director, Porter Goss, try and calm some of the internal tensions at the agency or does he even want to? We're going to talk about some sudden high level resignations and what they could possibly signal. Is the turnover coming at just the wrong time? An interesting way of putting that, wouldn't you say?

COLLINS: And now it is time for Jack Cafferty -- good morning.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Heidi.

Coming up in the "Cafferty File," we'll show you CNN host James Carville smashing an egg on his face on national television yesterday.

COLLINS: That was great.

CAFFERTY: It's a pretty funny tape, actually.

And why big butted mannequins are sweeping the nation. Here's a hint -- think J. Lo. Big old plastic cabooses on their mannequins.

COLLINS: Oh, did you just say big butted mannequins?

CAFFERTY: You know what? The producer -- my producer, who is a 27-year-old angelic woman from the West Coast of the United States had written big-assed mannequins and I said --

SANCHEZ: No!

CAFFERTY: ... we need to change that. And she said, "You can say that. It's OK." So I actually...

COLLINS: Well, you've said it now.

CAFFERTY: I actually toned it down to big butted mannequins from her version.

COLLINS: I see.

SANCHEZ: Which is probably the first thing you've ever toned down, right?

CAFFERTY: That's cute. Who is this guy and where is Hemmer?

COLLINS: All right, Jack, we will hear from you...

SANCHEZ: Oh, sorry about that, guy.

COLLINS: ... once again, many more times, I'm sure, throughout the show.

Thank you.

We are now going to check, though, on the stories now in the news this morning.

Daryn Kagan at the CNN Center once again -- Daryn, good morning.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm here to break things up for you guys.

Now in the news, there are reports of a mortar attack in southern Baghdad. Emergency crews say that at least seven people, including women and children, are among the wounded. Further north, military sources saying that four Americans were injured earlier today in arms fire from the mosque in the city of Ba'qubah. The soldiers are in stable condition. We'll have the latest on the fighting in Falluja in just a moment.

A U.S. soldier is being accused of plotting to kill Iraqis. According to military sources, a soldier from Fort Riley in Kansas has been charged with premeditated murder and conspiracy to commit murder. The events surrounding the charges are under investigation.

Iran says that its decision to suspend its uranium enrichment program is voluntary. The Iranian government said the suspension was part of a deal with the European Union to avoid possible U.N. sanctions. It could take several days for international inspectors to examine and shut down Iran's nuclear program.

And here in the U.S., a new immigration security program is being put to the test at border crossings. The Department of Homeland Security is expanding its program, which fingerprints, photographs and runs checks on many non-American visitors. So cities in Texas, Arizona and Michigan will start the program today. The technology has been in place at airports and seaports since January.

Rick -- back to you.

SANCHEZ: Daryn Kagan, thank you, my friend.

KAGAN: You are welcome.

SANCHEZ: My partner.

American troops are still battling fierce groups of insurgents remaining in Falluja. But the city believed to be the principal base of the insurgency is mostly under U.S. and Iraqi control at this time.

Karl Penhaul, he's in Baghdad this morning, following the scene not only there, but all over the country, where, Karl, there seems to be increased insurgency in other places now, like Ramadi, for example.

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It certainly looks that way, Rick.

I mean initially we have heard, over the last few hours, upbeat assessments from U.S. commanders on the ground in Falluja. In their words, they've now liberated that city.

That doesn't, though, stop there being ongoing fighting against some of the pockets of insurgents, small cells fighting three, four and five man groups, from what we understand. That is still ongoing.

Also, the U.S. military has brought us up to date periodically on military casualties in this conflict. But what we haven't heard yet is any exact specification of how many civilians have been wounded here or even how many civilians may have died in this conflict. We do know, of course, that there have been civilian casualties and would expect to get a better read on that as the fighting dies down and as civilians venture out into the streets.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Through the lens of a TV camera, the fight for Falluja looks like a war movie: "Apocalypse Now," "Platoon" or "Full Metal Jacket." You hear the sound of the shooting, but you're spared the sound of the sobbing of innocents trapped in the crossfire, the sobbing of women like Suhar Mohammed Abdullah (ph). She says her mother was killed, her cousin and uncle wounded and that she took bullets to her arm and leg.

SUHAR MOHAMMED ABDULLAH (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): We left the house around 2:30 p.m. with a car to go to my uncle's house near Abdullah Aziz Mosque. We thought it would be safer there, but when we reached the area, U.S. snipers started shooting.

PENHAUL: Prior to the assault, coalition forces dropped leaflets ordering Falluja's civilians not to drive in an effort to defend against suicide car bombs. U.S. troops have occupied some of Falluja's mosques, but the U.S. military was not immediately able to confirm Suhar's account. The U.S. troops opened fire from Abdul Aziz Mosque.

It's clear, though, the Americans were first on the scene to give her family first aid. U.S. troops shuttled them via Humvees and ambulances to this Baghdad hospital. The Iraqi Health Ministry has given no consolidated figures on the civilian toll in Falluja. Doctors here at Baghdad's Medical City say they've so far treated at least 25 wounded civilians. Staff at a U.S. military hospital say they've treated more than 30 others.

This Iraqi Red Crescent aid convoy has so far been unable to enter the city because it's still too dangerous.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

PENHAUL: Now, as you mentioned, Rick, as the situation in Falluja seems to come under U.S. military control there, there have been flare-ups in violence elsewhere. Mosul, over the last several days, has been one of these flashpoints. In the last few moments we've heard at a press conference from the Iraqi interior ministry that three or four police stations are still in insurgent hands. We even heard that yesterday one police officer who had been wounded in some of the fighting was dragged from his hospital bed where he was recovering, was mutilated and hung from a lamp post by insurgents.

The U.S. military, however, say the situation in Mosul is largely under control.

In addition to Mosul, a bit closer to Baghdad, in the city of Ba'qubah, just north of where we are, there have been a number of clashes throughout the morning. Groups of insurgents firing both on U.S. soldiers and on Iraqi security forces there. We understand those clashes are still ongoing. What we do know so far, though, is four U.S. soldiers have been wounded so far in fighting there -- Rick.

SANCHEZ: Karl Penhaul bringing us the very latest on this Iraqi insurgency.

We thank you, Karl -- Heidi, over to you.

COLLINS: Starting next Monday, jurors in the Scott Peterson case will hear testimony to decide whether Peterson should receive the death penalty or life in prison. Peterson was convicted Friday in the murder of his wife Laci and their unborn child.

With us now to talk about the verdict is Gloria Allred, the lawyer for Amber Frey, who testified to having an affair with Scott Peterson.

Now, Gloria, we know that you were in the courtroom. But Amber Frey was not. And I know you've spoken to her.

What was her reaction when this verdict first came down?

GLORIA ALLRED, AMBER FREY'S ATTORNEY: Well, it was a very emotional day for her, Heidi, as I'm sure you can understand, because her feelings toward Scott Peterson are very complicated, and she's been through a lot. But she's always said that it was for the jury to decide and that god would be the ultimate judge. And that's exactly what happened.

COLLINS: We also know that Amber Frey's father, Ron, was on "LARRY KING LIVE," that was on Friday, as well.

Let's go ahead and listen to his thoughts about the death penalty here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM CNN'S "LARRY KING LIVE")

RON FREY, AMBER FREY'S FATHER: I wish Mr. Scott Peterson would tell how he killed Laci and I hope the court would show mercy on him then.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Does Amber believe Scott Peterson should live or die?

ALLRED: Well, Amber doesn't believe that it's appropriate for her to be stating what her opinion is at this time because the jurors are going to consider the evidence and only the evidence that they hear in the death penalty phase, and they'll be hearing from the victims' family, from Sharon Rocha and other members of Laci Peterson's family. They'll also be hearing, probably, from the family of Scott Peterson. And then based on all of the evidence that is before them, then they'll have to decide to weigh the aggravating circumstances versus the mitigating circumstances and decide whether they should sentence him to death or life in prison without the possibility of parole.

And I don't think it's really appropriate for Amber to be stating what her opinion is unless and until she's called as a witness.

COLLINS: How important, though, as you look back over the course of this trial, how important was her testimony in this case?

ALLRED: Well, I think it was very important because she did agree to assist law enforcement by taping the telephone calls with Scott Peterson after Laci disappeared, many, many hours of calls, many of which were played in the courtroom. As a result of hearing all of those calls, I think it caused a seismic shift in the way the public and the jury looked at Scott Peterson. They saw that he was a liar. And there's no way after that that Scott Peterson could have taken the witness stand. They heard, Heidi, on the tapes Scott Peterson acknowledging that he had said to Amber, "I've lost my wife and these will be these will be the first holidays without her before Laci ever went missing." They heard him talking to Amber about wanting to have a future with her, wanting to be with her forever. So they heard quite a bit about Scott Peterson.

COLLINS: All right, we've got to get to this question now. We've already chatted about it a little bit here on the show this morning. But Mark Geragos was not there when this verdict was read.

Was it that big of a surprise? I mean where was he?

ALLRED: Well, that's the question. And I just wonder, was it a satanic cult that caused him not to be able to be there? Was he abducted by the homeless or sexual predators? I don't know. Maybe he just had other priorities or other responsibilities.

COLLINS: Touche.

We do know, as we have said, that the penalty phase of this trial is going to begin pretty quickly, November 22.

How likely is it that Amber Frey will go to the stand and speak once again?

ALLRED: Heidi, I don't think it's likely that the prosecution is going to be calling her as a witness and now I'm hearing reports in newspapers that have not checked with me saying that the defense is intending to call her. But, you know, the defense, Mark Geragos said he was going to call her in the preliminary hearing and he didn't. Then he said he was going to recall her as his witness in the trial, and he didn't.

So now if the defense is saying that they're going to call Amber Frey, I think it's highly unlikely. They certainly haven't notified me about that nor have they notified Amber.

COLLINS: Very quickly, appeal here?

ALLRED: I think it's very likely that Scott Peterson, yes, would be appealing and, in fact, an absolutely certainty that he would. He had an appellate attorney in the courtroom. There will be many grounds alleged on appeal. He'll probably argue that the second degree murder instruction should not have been given, that they should have been able to do their boat video demonstration, although the judge apparently decided that it wasn't the same or similar circumstances.

COLLINS: Right.

ALLRED: And, of course, they'll talk about the dismissal of the two jurors and perhaps argue that at least one should not have been dismissed.

COLLINS: More to come, indeed.

ALLRED: Yes.

COLLINS: Gloria Allred, appreciate your legal expertise, as always. ALLRED: Thanks.

Nice to be here, Heidi.

COLLINS: Thanks so much.

ALLRED: Thank you.

COLLINS: Rick.

SANCHEZ: Thank you, ladies.

Now police in Miami plan to hold a news conference later today over the controversial use of these taser guns on two children in recent weeks.

Susan Candiotti has more.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The second taser incident involving a child was publicly revealed only after CNN first reported on a 6-year old being jolted, even though both cases were known to authorities. This 12-year old girl was also tasered.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I felt like I couldn't breathe and I was like nervous and I was scared at the same time.

CANDIOTTI: Police say she was playing hooky from school, drinking and swimming with friends in a pool. After breaking it up, an officer gave chase. According to a police report, he advised her to stop several times, but she didn't, to the point of starting to run into lanes of traffic.

About two weeks earlier, this first grader was tasered at school. He was holding a piece of broken glass, allegedly about to cut his leg. Police insist two officers and others there had no other choice.

DET. JUAN DEL CASTILLO, MIAMI-DADE FLORIDA POLICE: We're happy that we're here talking about this as opposed to an injury that he might have caused himself with that piece of glass.

CANDIOTTI: After the quick 50,000 volt jolt, the boy's family says he threw up.

KATHY ALLEN, MOTHER: If there's three officers, it's nothing to tell a 6-year old holding a glass, if you feel threatened, hey, here's a piece of candy. Hey, here's a toy. You know, let the glass go.

CANDIOTTI: Both incidents have created an outcry. Florida's governor was asked about it.

GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: I don't know the circumstances of why adults couldn't control a six-year old.

CANDIOTTI (on camera): While Miami-Dade police defend using a taser on a 6-year old boy, they question using a taser on a child playing hooky. However, they refuse to answer any more questions until Monday.

(voice-over): Community activists are calling for a meeting with police.

GEORGIA AYERS, COMMUNITY ACTIVIST: There needs to be more in- depth study on using the taser on children. Paragraph ended.

CANDIOTTI: Miami Police Chief John Timoney has questions about his sister agency's taser policy and says he's uncomfortable about using tasers on children, especially in school.

JOHN TIMONEY, CHIEF, MIAMI DADE POLICE: You're arming them just to deal with unruly students. I mean, that's...

CANDIOTTI: Taser International says more than 5,000 police agencies nationwide use their product and insist it has tested safe for anyone weighing at least 60 pounds. Yet tasers on children remain controversial. And in South Florida, policies on their use are under review.

Susan Candiotti, CNN, Miami.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

SANCHEZ: We should add, as a caveat to that story, that there's talk now of disciplining the officer in the incident involving the 12- year-old girl, specifically.

COLLINS: We want to go ahead and get a check on the weather now.

Chad Myers at the CNN Center with the very latest forecast -- good morning, Chad.

Hey, I've got to tell you.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes?

COLLINS: We had snow at my house, my new house in New Jersey, over the weekend.

MYERS: Really?

COLLINS: I was shocked.

Yes.

MYERS: Well, yes, you should have been.

COLLINS: Was it just my house?

MYERS: It was. It was just your house.

It's going to be a cold day at your house when...

COLLINS: Yes.

MYERS: Anyway...

(WEATHER REPORT)

COLLINS: The lost city of Atlantis may have been found. An American archeologist says the kingdom lies at the bottom of the Mediterranean Sea near Cyprus. On his boat this weekend, Robert Sarmast said he's found manmade walls underwater that match descriptions written by the great philosopher Plato in the third century B.C. Other archeologists say more proof is needed. The legend goes that the kingdom of Atlantis, a culturally and technologically advanced society, was swallowed by the sea in a single day and night after an earthquake 10,000 years before the common area.

Remember "Man From Atlantis?"

SANCHEZ: Yes.

COLLINS: I loved that show.

SANCHEZ: Good.

Still to come, we're going to stay underwater and try to hide. It's Titanic revealed. It turns out the search for the legendary shipwreck had more to do with national security than the quest for knowledge. We're going to talk to the man who found the Titanic almost 20 years ago. That's him. Go ahead, give us a wink, Robert Ballard. All right.

COLLINS: Also, would be assassin John Hinckley wants more freedom. His relationship with an old girlfriend could be the key.

SANCHEZ: Also, new CIA Director Porter Goss is already making waves. So what's the real reason behind his appointment? We're going to look at that and so much more.

This is your AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back, everyone.

You know, it's been almost 20 years since he discovered the Titanic in 1985. Now in a new book, "Return To Titanic," it's really a new look at the world's most famous lost ship and what's gone on in those past couple of decades.

Explorer Dr. Robert Ballard details his June 2004 expedition to study the deterioration of the wreckage. Also, he's got some surprising secrets about the Titanic that were just recently declassified. According to this declassified information, when we were being told by our government that they were trying to study the Titanic, they were actually doing something else.

Tell our viewers what that was.

ROBERT BALLARD, EXPLORER/OCEANOGRAPHER, AUTHOR, "RETURN TO TITANIC": Well, there it is, the Scorpion. Our program was to not only explore the Titanic, but the technology was actually to explore the USS Scorpion and the USS Thresher, which were two nuclear submarines we lost during the cold war.

SANCHEZ: So our government, our U.S. Navy, which you were a part of, right, at that time?

BALLARD: Thirty-three years.

SANCHEZ: They were telling the public, look, we're doing this special expedition down in the Atlantic where we're looking for the Titanic, they weren't looking for the Atlantic. They were trying to get information on the Russians and the USSR, right?

BALLARD: Well, they were really concerned whether the Soviets were going to our downed submarines, because they had nuclear weapons on them, they had nuclear reactors and we obviously, during the cold war, were really concerned about what the Soviets might be doing. And it was also a way, as you'll see in the "National Geographic" special that's on December 16, it -- the Navy really declassified it, so they were sending the Soviets a message.

SANCHEZ: You and I have to talk a lot about the possible deterioration of the Titanic. But before we get to that, I know you delve into this in your great book, which is worth buying, if nothing else for the pictures alone, because it's so eerie. But was it the iceberg and the gash caused on the side of the ship that did bring it down?

BALLARD: Absolutely. I mean...

SANCHEZ: No question about that?

BALLARD: It sank. It hit an iceberg and that was it.

SANCHEZ: Let me move to the lifeboats, then.

Why weren't there enough of them?

BALLARD: Well, you know, it was obeying the law. They didn't have to -- believe it or not, back then you didn't have to carry enough lifeboats for all the people aboard. So, but...

SANCHEZ: What does that mean? That only some of these people are worth saving?

BALLARD: Well, the first class, evidently.

SANCHEZ: Oh my goodness.

BALLARD: My since then, lots of laws have been written as a result of the loss of the Titanic. And creation of the International Ice Patrol, so they would actually be following icebergs. Radio operators who would stay up, you know, 24 hours a day. So the Titanic led to a lot of new laws. SANCHEZ: You've been going back in the last 20 years or so and now you've just recently gone back to see what effect all this study and all this tourist stuff has had on this ship.

BALLARD: Yes.

SANCHEZ: And you don't like what you've seen, right?

BALLARD: Well, as you can see, there's a lot of damage that's been done to the Titanic; some of it naturally, some of it -- but a lot of it by submarines, like here. A submarine crashed into the first officer's cabin. So Titanic is really being loved to death. And what we're trying to do through this "National Geographic" TV special and also the book and the magazine story is to draw attention to the Titanic and try to get other nations to sign the new treaty.

There's a new treaty that the United States and England have signed. We're trying to get Russia and France to sign it, because it's their submarines that are doing most of the sub damage to the ship.

SANCHEZ: What kind of treaty? Do they have...

BALLARD: That you can go...

SANCHEZ: ... the statistics -- like a paparazzi rule?

BALLARD: Exactly. It's sort of like going to the Arizona in Pearl Harbor. Why should the Titanic not be treated like the Arizona in Pearl Harbor? You go there but you don't take belt buckles off the ship.

SANCHEZ: Well, you've come up with something that I think is really cool. You've got a way for people to check out the Titanic any time they want. And to dive all the way down there, they don't have to leave their living rooms.

BALLARD: Exactly. In fact, when we did this special on the "National Geographic" channel, we came live from the deck of the Titanic.

SANCHEZ: Wow!

BALLARD: We're now installing undersea camera systems in NOAH's national marine sanctuaries. You can sit in my office in Connecticut and drive undersea robots in Monterey Bay's kelp forest right now. So we see the day will come when undersea robots will be the way that you visit it, and you'll visit it whenever you want to. So it's (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

SANCHEZ: So it's kind of like a pool camera like we use in our business.

BALLARD: Exactly.

SANCHEZ: In other words, instead of having 50 yahoos down there trumping all over each other...

BALLARD: That's right.

SANCHEZ: Like this couple that got married down there...

BALLARD: On the bow.

SANCHEZ: And left a mark, right?

BALLARD: They crushed the deck. In fact, you'll see it as we come along here, right there.

SANCHEZ: That's it right there at the front of the deck?

BALLARD: This is the shot where they actually...

SANCHEZ: Where they actually went through, correct?

BALLARD: ... they ran -- well, see if the submarines are very clumsy. And if you land on the deck, you crush it; if you bump into it. We have no problem with people visiting the Titanic. We think it's wonderful. Just don't destroy it.

SANCHEZ: Now, you have had a big part in so many different discoveries -- the Bismarck, the Yorktown, JFK P.T. 109.

What's left for you to do? I mean...

BALLARD: Oh, there's so much. We've just started a new program at the University of Rhode Island, where I'm a professor.

SANCHEZ: Yes?

BALLARD: In archeological oceanography, we think the deep sea is the largest museum on earth, that there's more history in the deep sea than all the museums of the world combined and our biggest concern is, yes, the Titanic, but we're really worried about ancient antiquity that's really at peril now.

SANCHEZ: Why? Why is that important to us?

BALLARD: Well, because it's our history. We think there's more than one million time capsules in the deep sea and there's no rules governing them. It's like having a museum with the doors open and the question is do you go through the doors of the deep sea's museum to appreciate or to plunder them? And the jury is out.

SANCHEZ: Robert Ballard.

BALLARD: A pleasure.

SANCHEZ: Great having you.

BALLARD: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Thanks. A wonderful discussion.

Let's go over to Heidi -- Heidi, are you there?

COLLINS: Still to come this morning, a new study may shed some light on the possible cause of childhood autism. What does it say about a possible link to children's vaccines? We're "Paging Dr. Gupta" ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Jack Cafferty here now and the Question of the Day once again.

CAFFERTY: Thanks, Heidi.

Scott Peterson, convicted of murdering his wife and unborn son. Now the penalty phase will be decided by the same jury that convicted him.

The question we're asking this morning is whether or not Scott Peterson ought to get the death penalty or should he spend life in the general prison population, where he has a good chance of being the prom queen weekly?

Mike in Columbus, Mississippi: "This man has cost the taxpayers of California millions of dollars already without having to feed him and give him flu shots for the rest of his life. Erase him, like he did his wife and unborn son."

John in Madison, Wisconsin: "Jack, I am so tired of trials as theater. I'm all for the death penalty for producers and reporters who bring me this stuff."

You have a point there, John.

Jan in Locust Grove, Virginia: "I agree with you, Jack. Let the boy dance for his supper. And imagine how kind the other fellows will be to a guy who murdered a woman and child. Let him have a long life and suffer every minute of it."

Rich in Westin, Missouri: "But for the pesky constitutional ban on cruel and unusual punishment, I'd come up with some better ideas. But for now, fry him."

COLLINS: And did you hear what Gloria Allred said about, we were wondering...

CAFFERTY: No, I didn't.

COLLINS: We were wondering about where Geragos was when this verdict came down.

CAFFERTY: Yes?

COLLINS: She said that she had hoped that he hadn't been taken by a satanic cult. That's what she said.

CAFFERTY: Gloria said that?

COLLINS: Yes, she did.

CAFFERTY: Yes, I missed it.

SANCHEZ: In a moment, some of the Marines in Falluja are talking, including one whose skull was cracked by a sniper's bullet. You're going to be surprised to hear how he describes it all. He's going to talk to us.

Also, would be assassin John Hinckley wants more freedom. Whether he gets it may hinge on an old relationship. We'll tell you what that is right here on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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