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American Morning
9/11 Reform Hits Roadblock; Cyclist Maintains Innocence Amidst Blood-Doping Allegations
Aired November 22, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The brawl that could define the entire NBA season draws a swift and severe reaction.
Five people killed in Wisconsin as a dispute over a deer hunting stand led to rage in the forest.
A confrontation brewing between President Bush and conservative members of Congress over the now stalled 9/11 reforms.
And Scott Peterson's life now on the line as the penalty phase of his trial begins on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everybody.
Live in New York City.
A foggy morning here on a Monday.
Good to have you along with us today.
Watching this videotape from Friday night, huh? Every time I see it, I can't turn away, actually.
O'BRIEN: I know.
HEMMER: I think I've seen it 50 times so far so.
O'BRIEN: I know. The one shot where you take -- someone takes a fist and clocks that fan?
HEMMER: Yes. There it is again.
O'BRIEN: That one right there. Look at that guy go down like a bag of potatoes.
HEMMER: Yes.
Last hour we heard from Charles Barkley down in Alabama, saying that if a fan hits a player, the player has the right to beat up that fan. Not...
O'BRIEN: That's not what he said.
HEMMER: Not quite.
O'BRIEN: He had an expletive in there.
HEMMER: Not quite sure everyone agrees with that.
However, Mike Stone is a sport radio announcer out of Detroit. He will give his take on what happened and where the lines should be drawn. So we'll get you up to Detroit and Auburn Hills, Michigan for more on that. And the fallout continues today and it is substantial, also.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning, we're going to talk to Sanjay about self-restraint at Thanksgiving. Sanjay telling us about food portions and how they've changed over the years. My guess is he's going to say they got really, really big. Some very interesting comparisons, though. That should be an eye-opener for all of us.
HEMMER: And they could have used some restraint on Friday night, huh?
O'BRIEN: Yes, restraint.
HEMMER: All the way around.
Jack Cafferty, too -- good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Maybe the NBA ought to consider like incorporating wardrobe malfunctions into the games or something, you know, keep the restless fans at bay.
Coming up in the "Cafferty File," the most tasteless Internet game to come to market so far. Three wives of the same husband in Iran get in a Pier Six brawl over a $450 pair of boots. And the super model that says she plans to wear her bikini until she's 80. I just hope she stays indoors with the curtains drawn.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.
O'BRIEN: She might look all right.
HEMMER: Carol Costello is with us here in New York City again with the headlines -- good morning, Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: I don't know, in this age of plastic surgery, she may be quite attractive even at 80.
O'BRIEN: Absolutely.
COSTELLO: I don't know.
Now in the news, good morning, everyone.
President Bush is heading to Colombia this hour after wrapping up this weekend's economic summit in Santiago, Chile. President Bush met individually with a dozen leaders, including Mexico's president, Vicente Fox. President Bush promised to make immigration reform a priority during his second term and to push ahead with the measure to give illegal immigrants guest worker status.
Secretary of State Colin Powell is in the Middle East this morning talking about reviving the peace process post-Yasser Arafat. Secretary Powell met with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon earlier. Israel has now pledged to do everything it can to ease conditions for Palestinian elections. They are slated to take place January 9.
Here in the States, the sentencing phase begins today in the Scott Peterson trial. Peterson was found guilty of killing his wife Laci and their unborn son less than two weeks ago. Jurors must now choose between a life sentence or the death penalty. Oral arguments in the penalty phase set to get under way, oh, just about four hours from now. But a delay is possible if the judge accepts a motion to seat a new jury.
And Donald Trump signing bankruptcy papers. Trump Hotels and Casinos filed for Chapter 11 in New Jersey. The company announced last August it would seek bankruptcy protection as part of a new refinancing plan. Now one to focus on the negative, Trump says he's planning to expand his casino empire into Pennsylvania and Las Vegas.
HEMMER: Got to go where the market is, Carol.
COSTELLO: Whether it fails or not.
HEMMER: That's right.
Thanks, Carol.
President Bush believes it is still possible to pass intelligence reform before the end of this year. The 9/11 reform measure hit a congressional roadblock over the weekend, though. Still, the topic of a lot of discussion. The first political setback for the White House since reelection. It's also triggered a bona fide blame game in Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: If we can't pass this bill, we are really letting the American people down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can rush things, we can push them through, we can respond to public pressure, but we need to get it right.
HEMMER (voice-over): Anger and frustration on Capitol Hill, a congressional compromise on intelligence reform comes crashing down.
SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R-MS), CHAIRMAN, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: I feel like somebody who ran 500 yards on the football field but didn't score a touchdown. I think it's most unfortunate that the Congress could not come together and pass bipartisan intelligence reform, sorely needed.
HEMMER: The bill designed to streamline and strengthen U.S. intelligence gathering, recommended by the 9/11 Commission. A Senate version passed easily last month, but conservative Republicans blocked the vote in the House, claiming the legislation would take intelligence control away from the Pentagon, possibly endangering U.S. troops in a time of war.
REP. DENNIS HASTERT (R-IL), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We want to make sure that our men and women who serve this country, that fight in Afghanistan and Iraq have the real time intelligence that they need.
HEMMER: The compromise measure had the support of the 9/11 Commissioners as well as families of 9/11 victims.
The ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee says its apparent failure sends a disturbing message.
REP. JANE HARMAN (D-CA), VICE CHAIRWOMAN, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: We had the chance yesterday. We blew the chance yesterday. What I would say to the families is we failed you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: That was from over the weekend.
Now on Monday morning, Kentucky Senator Mitch McConnell, the number two Republican in the Senate, is my guest now from Louisville, Kentucky.
Senator, welcome back and good morning to you.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), SENATE MAJORITY WHIP: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: Can you explain what happened in the House over the weekend?
MCCONNELL: Well, there were deep seated differences about whether to go forward with this bill. But I think it was Yogi Berra who once said it ain't over until it's over, and we're coming back on December the 6th and 7th. We didn't adjourn for the year and the reason we didn't adjourn for the year is that we plan to come back to this. The president's on the way back from South America, is going to lobby some more with the recalcitrant members. And I'm optimistic that we're still going to get this intelligence reform before the end of the year.
HEMMER: There are some members of the House who say the Senate acted too quickly.
How would you respond to that on your side of the chamber?
MCCONNELL: Well, obviously I don't agree with that. The bill passed the Senate by a very, very large bipartisan majority. I still think the momentum is there for getting this intelligence reform. It's important to the country and even though there are arguments that could be made, good arguments that could be made against certain parts of it, no bill is ever perfect, Bill. And I think it's time to get back together and pass this and send it on down to the president before Christmas. HEMMER: Would you say it's an issue of money that's holding this up?
MCCONNELL: Look, there are some philosophical differences about how to arrange the intelligence apparatus between the CIA and the Defense Department. It's essentially a turf battle. But, look, a lot of people have looked at this over a period of time. This bill is a step in the right direction and I'm optimistic that we're going to come back together December the 6th and 7th and pass this bill and send it on down to the president.
HEMMER: You mentioned the president coming back from Chile. Also yesterday on the talk shows, you said, "The president's coming back from Chile and I think he will work on these guys."
Did the White House not work hard enough to get this done on the House side?
MCCONNELL: No, they worked hard. But they just didn't get there yet, which is why we're going to stretch this out for another couple of weeks and take another run at it. Look, Bill, I think there's a good chance this bill may be on life supports, but it's still breathing. And I think there's a good chance that we're going to get it a couple of weeks from now.
HEMMER: In December, a lame duck session, another one?
MCCONNELL: Well, I wouldn't call it a lame duck session. It's just a couple of days that we'd be back here to do this. It's important to do it and I think we're going to get it done.
HEMMER: Let's try and button this up. We talked a lot about the White House.
What about the Department of Defense? Was the Pentagon holding this up, specifically, Donald Rumsfeld?
MCCONNELL: I don't know whether the secretary is holding it up or not. I know there's some resistance in the Defense Department about the way the intelligence is going to be shifted around. But, look, the broader issue is what's in the best interests of the country in the wake of the 9/11 attack. A whole lot of people have looked at this, both in the House and the Senate and outside, with the 9/11 Commission. Everybody who's looked at it thinks that this is an improvement that'll make America safer, give us a better chance to succeed in the war on terror. That's a step we're going to take, in my judgment. We'll either take it two weeks from now or we'll take it early next year.
HEMMER: Thank you, Senator.
Mitch McConnell from Louisville, Kentucky this morning.
MCCONNELL: Thank you, Bill.
HEMMER: All right -- Soledad. O'BRIEN: Nine players for the Indiana Pacers and Detroit Pistons and been suspended following Friday night's fight in which players fought with fans.
NBA Commissioner David Stern handed out the toughest penalties in league history.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID STERN, NBA COMMISSIONER: We have to make the point that there are boundaries in our games and that one of those boundaries which is, has always been, but is hereby announced to be immutable, is the boundary that separates the fans from the court. And players cannot lose control and go into the stands.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: The most severe penalty went to Indiana forward Ron Artest, who is now out for the rest of the season. The players union is protesting the penalties.
Mike Stone is a sports talk show host for WDFN Radio in Detroit.
Nice to see you, Mike.
Thanks for bringing us.
You were at that game, just there, a little time off, not reporting on it or anything. We've seen the videotape, obviously.
What was it like? Was it as chaotic and nutty as it seems?
MIKE STONE, WDFN RADIO HOST: Chaotic was the proper word, Soledad. It was bizarre. It was -- you just sat there. I was about 50 feet from it with my wife and we were just looking. Thankfully we weren't near the scene. It was -- and as you know, it took place late in the game and it was nuts. It was embarrassing.
But I want to make this point for all the Detroiters in the Detroit area. Detroit fans are getting a black eye over this and it shouldn't represent the whole city and the whole area. A few idiots ruined this for the whole area and the guy who threw the original beer on Artest, or whatever beverage, he should be prosecuted. All the people that threw stuff at the end when the Pacers were trying to get off, they should be prosecuted.
That said, the Pacers, Artest, Steven Jackson, they were definitely in the wrong, as well.
O'BRIEN: So it sounds like you just...
STONE: There was no...
O'BRIEN: You're doing finger pointing at a lot of people.
Let's first talk about the fans. How much of a -- do you think the fans are to blame? I mean, you know, come on, they're drinking, it's a game. Shouldn't someone who's making $5 million a year have a little self-restraint?
STONE: Absolutely. There were a lot of people that were wrong on this, the whole chain of events. But the fan is wrong for he triggered it. Ron Artest should never -- I don't care what Charles Barkley said. I love Charles, but a player who gets thrown with beer or a cup that's not harmful to a well-conditioned athlete, there's no excuse for Ron Artest going into the stands and triggering that.
Steven Jackson, he didn't come in as a peacemaker. He was in there falling away. That's ridiculous.
It all started because of the fans, what the fan did. But what Artest did was ridiculous and the suspension of Artest is well deserved. The suspension of Steven Jackson, well deserved. Jermaine O'Neal maybe got a little bit heavy because...
O'BRIEN: Charles Barkley, as you mentioned -- since you're talking about the suspensions, he said that he didn't think Ron Artest should be out for the whole season, that maybe 50 games would have been fair, and then put him into anger management. He also said, as you referred to a moment ago, this.
Let's listen to it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES BARKLEY, FORMER NBA PLAYER: When somebody hits you, you have the right to hit them back. That's what me and Commissioner Stern disagree with. Any time a fan touches you, you have the right to beat the hell out of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: He's not going for a middle ground there. You have the right to beat the hell out of them. He's obviously taking a much different position than, say, the commissioner would take.
STONE: Right. Well, obviously Charles is a former player. But what the guy who started this fight, who threw the beer and the cup, I don't think that's hitting Ron Artest. I don't think that's self- defense.
Now, Jermaine O'Neal, when he cold cocked the guy on the court, well, when the fans entered the players' house, so to speak, the court, well, maybe that's a little different. So that's why I thought the suspension of O'Neal might have been a little heavy.
But you don't go into the stands, OK? You have to be better than that.
O'BRIEN: Alcohol, over reaction, security, what do you think is also to blame here? STONE: Alcohol, probably. Maybe they should suspend alcohol midway through the third quarter. The security at the Palace was always very good. You can't predict something like that's going to happen. So I really don't blame them for the early thing. I do blame the security for somehow not getting near the tunnel at the end, because when they were just pouring all the stuff all over the Pacers, that was a disgrace. And there was no reason that fans should have been on the court. That's ridiculous. That's where security messed up.
The original stuff with Artest going into the stands, there was no way security could know anything like that was going to happen.
O'BRIEN: I've got to tell you, it's just amazing to watch. We've seen this now 50 times and you can't turn away.
Thanks for being with us this morning, Mike.
Appreciate it.
STONE: Thank you very much.
O'BRIEN: Bill.
HEMMER: We're always going to remember where we were when we first saw that videotape, don't you think?
O'BRIEN: Yes. Yes.
HEMMER: I mean the repercussions for this, I think, will be felt for years, and not just in the NBA, but quite possibly in some of the other sports we've seen, too. You had two bench clearing brawls in football over the past week -- Clemson and South Carolina over the weekend, and then last weekend Cleveland and Pittsburgh. This is yet another reminder of that.
O'BRIEN: And hockey.
HEMMER: But the big difference in this, though, this involved fans. Before that it was just players.
O'BRIEN: Yes, it's unbelievable.
HEMMER: And as Mike pointed out, players going up in the stands and vice versa, the fans on the floor. So...
O'BRIEN: Yes, and the fans coming down to the floor.
HEMMER: A check of the weather.
How about that, huh?
Here's Chad Myers watching things at the CNN Center -- how go?
How's the weather in Detroit today, Chad?
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Cool.
HEMMER: It's sunshine?
MYERS: It's a little chilly up there.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, an American gold medalist is fighting doping accusations, trying to clear his name. He's going to tell us his side of the story coming up next.
HEMMER: Also, Scott Peterson facing life or death. The penalty phase of that case set to start today in Redwood City.
O'BRIEN: And you can enjoy your Thanksgiving meal without getting stuffed. We've got some tips on healthy eating on this Turkey Day.
That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: This summer in Athens, 33-year-old Tyler Hamilton was the first American in 20 years to win Olympic gold in cycling. But that gold medal is now tainted after allegations of blood doping surfaced in September. Hamilton maintains that he is innocent.
And he joins us in the studio.
It's nice to see you.
Thanks for coming in.
TYLER HAMILTON, OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALIST: Thanks for having me.
O'BRIEN: It's very complicated, because the process of testing the blood is complicated.
But first let's talk about blood doping. Blood doping is essentially getting somebody else's blood, getting more red blood cells and getting a transfusion so that you have more endurance during the race. What happened to your blood test at the Olympics?
HAMILTON: Well, in the Olympics, I was tested the day after the time trial, which I won the gold medal. And the test came out twice negative.
O'BRIEN: And there's an A sample and a B sample.
HAMILTON: Yes, they separate your sample into two samples, A and B.
O'BRIEN: So it was the Olympics that came out negative. HAMILTON: And the A came out negative twice. And they followed protocol. They froze the B sample and -- which they said they mistakenly froze. But when the sample is negative, they freeze it.
O'BRIEN: OK, so then...
HAMILTON: Twenty-eight days later.
O'BRIEN: Twenty-eight days later...
HAMILTON: Twenty-eight days.
O'BRIEN: We're talking about Spain, a race in Spain.
HAMILTON: I was in Spain and they said my sample in Athens was positive.
O'BRIEN: Did you have a sample in Spain that tested positive?
HAMILTON: Yes, I did.
O'BRIEN: And the A sample and the B sample...
HAMILTON: But that was even -- that had many inconsistencies and it was very -- it was inconclusive for blood doping.
O'BRIEN: OK, since this is so confusing...
HAMILTON: I had a lot of expert scientists...
O'BRIEN: ... I'm going to have you just walk me through slowly.
HAMILTON: I mean it's crazy.
Sure.
O'BRIEN: So, in Spain, you had an A sample and a B sample that both tested positive.
What do you think went wrong there?
HAMILTON: No -- well, for one, from, you know, I'm not a scientist and I'm not a lawyer, so, I'm just a cyclist trying to prove my innocence with the truth. In Spain, there's a lot of inaccuracies in the test and it's less conclusive than the test in the Olympics.
O'BRIEN: And this is the same test that some people will say -- it's been used for 30 years.
HAMILTON: You wouldn't go to the dentist if they were using 30- year-old equipment.
O'BRIEN: So you think the test wasn't sensitive enough to test it...
HAMILTON: Well, what I do know is I didn't blood dope, you know? I don't have all the answers here. But something is wrong. I've been a part of at a competition...
O'BRIEN: Testing.
HAMILTON: ... testing for five years. I was one of the charter members. So I'm all about testing. I support it. I support new tests. But they have to be accurate. You know, my life is in jeopardy, my career. Many people...
O'BRIEN: And your gold medal, very frankly, is in jeopardy.
HAMILTON: Yes, I mean right now my medal is tainted and until I clear my name, it's a shame.
O'BRIEN: How do you go about doing that because once you had this, what happened in Spain, they went back to the look at the Olympic blood tests and they said now deemed suspicious.
Could you, at this point, lose your gold medal?
HAMILTON: I mean the Russians are trying to take it back, you know? Vyacheslav came off with second. But I know that what the truth is and I believe in the process and I've been waiting for the process to just run its course and I know the truth will come out so.
O'BRIEN: You're off the team now, although you're...
HAMILTON: I'm suspended by the team, which I mutually agreed with because in a situation like this, it's best to separate until you clear up the situation.
O'BRIEN: How do you go about proving your innocence in something like this? I mean what's the next step?
HAMILTON: It's hard. I mean for me it's the first time that I've ever been involved in anything like this. I mean I really wish I wasn't here to have to really explain my case.
O'BRIEN: Yes, I bet.
HAMILTON: I mean the reason why I am here is because I've really lost the P.R. battle so far. A lot of big officials who really should keep quiet until this process has run its course have spoken out to the press from the other side and really bashed my name, so to speak. And so I feel like I have to defend myself, defend my name, defend my team's name, defend my family, my friends, my sponsors. So that's why I'm here today. It's a shame.
O'BRIEN: What do you think is going to happen? I mean there are people who are looking to you and saying you're going to be the next Lance Armstrong.
What happens next for you legally? January, is that when your hearing is?
HAMILTON: Legally, yes, the case will be heard in late January so. O'BRIEN: And you have (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
HAMILTON: I mean until, you know, I have lawyers who are taking care of everything. I'm training every day and, you know, I'm -- my goal is to win the 2005 Tour de France, and that's what I have to think about.
O'BRIEN: Well, we wish the best of luck and that the whole truth comes out in the very end.
HAMILTON: Thank you.
Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Thanks for coming in to talk to us about it.
HAMILTON: Thanks a lot.
O'BRIEN: We appreciate it -- Bill.
HEMMER: All right, get a break here.
In a moment, who's to blame for the failure to pass intelligence reform? Your thoughts plus views from both sides of that aisle in a moment here.
Back with Jack after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.
Jack's got The Question of the Day.
CAFFERTY: We'll get to that in a minute.
We were just discussing donut holes, the kind of stuff that goes on during the breaks.
O'BRIEN: And calories. Well, that's...
CAFFERTY: Yes, those little, what do they call them, Munchkins?
O'BRIEN: Yes.
CAFFERTY: Love those things.
O'BRIEN: Yes, they're good.
CAFFERTY: Oh, man.
O'BRIEN: And caloric.
CAFFERTY: Yes, and, well, and, caloric, too. That, but, you know, we overlook that part. Congress has gone home for the Thanksgiving holiday without passing the bill to restructure U.S. intelligence. The cover story put out by the conservative House member standing in the way is it's all about national security. Well, don't kid yourself, kid, it's always about the money.
The Pentagon currently controls $40 billion of intelligence funding. The secretary of defense wants to keep it.
Here's the question, what ought to be done about the stalemate over the 9/11 Commission Report?
David in Ames, Iowa writes: "Jack, it's just as you expected back in July. The Congress passed it from committee to committee until after the election and now they'll bury it, claiming that when the new Congress goes into session, then it will have to be reworked."
Remember last summer they had time to debate gay marriage and an amendment to the constitution for two weeks? But they said they couldn't possibly get to this until next year. Well, it's almost next year.
Steve in Athol, Massachusetts, which is not a name you mess around with, by the way: "Only the populists can pressure Congress to act responsibly. If we all, like sheep, have no desire to vote out of office those who fail to take responsible action, then we all are left to live with the results, such as no action and, in this case, the continual disarray in our intelligence services."
Tommy in Tennessee writes: "A suggestion -- tie congressional pay to action. Set budget and task deadlines, suspend pay and all benefits until they're met. If that doesn't work, lock them in a room and let Senator Byrd read to them until they decide to get it done."
And, finally, Charles in Washington writes: "I think the Question of the Day should have been this. If someone hits you, do you then have the right to beat the hell out of them? I can't believe I just heard that on your show."
That was Charles Barkley, who often...
HEMMER: Sir Charles.
Thank you, Jack.
Let's get a break here.
In a moment, it looks to be a very emotional week in the Scott Peterson case. First, though, the judge making a critical decision. We'll get to that and more right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired November 22, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The brawl that could define the entire NBA season draws a swift and severe reaction.
Five people killed in Wisconsin as a dispute over a deer hunting stand led to rage in the forest.
A confrontation brewing between President Bush and conservative members of Congress over the now stalled 9/11 reforms.
And Scott Peterson's life now on the line as the penalty phase of his trial begins on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everybody.
Live in New York City.
A foggy morning here on a Monday.
Good to have you along with us today.
Watching this videotape from Friday night, huh? Every time I see it, I can't turn away, actually.
O'BRIEN: I know.
HEMMER: I think I've seen it 50 times so far so.
O'BRIEN: I know. The one shot where you take -- someone takes a fist and clocks that fan?
HEMMER: Yes. There it is again.
O'BRIEN: That one right there. Look at that guy go down like a bag of potatoes.
HEMMER: Yes.
Last hour we heard from Charles Barkley down in Alabama, saying that if a fan hits a player, the player has the right to beat up that fan. Not...
O'BRIEN: That's not what he said.
HEMMER: Not quite.
O'BRIEN: He had an expletive in there.
HEMMER: Not quite sure everyone agrees with that.
However, Mike Stone is a sport radio announcer out of Detroit. He will give his take on what happened and where the lines should be drawn. So we'll get you up to Detroit and Auburn Hills, Michigan for more on that. And the fallout continues today and it is substantial, also.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning, we're going to talk to Sanjay about self-restraint at Thanksgiving. Sanjay telling us about food portions and how they've changed over the years. My guess is he's going to say they got really, really big. Some very interesting comparisons, though. That should be an eye-opener for all of us.
HEMMER: And they could have used some restraint on Friday night, huh?
O'BRIEN: Yes, restraint.
HEMMER: All the way around.
Jack Cafferty, too -- good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Maybe the NBA ought to consider like incorporating wardrobe malfunctions into the games or something, you know, keep the restless fans at bay.
Coming up in the "Cafferty File," the most tasteless Internet game to come to market so far. Three wives of the same husband in Iran get in a Pier Six brawl over a $450 pair of boots. And the super model that says she plans to wear her bikini until she's 80. I just hope she stays indoors with the curtains drawn.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.
O'BRIEN: She might look all right.
HEMMER: Carol Costello is with us here in New York City again with the headlines -- good morning, Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: I don't know, in this age of plastic surgery, she may be quite attractive even at 80.
O'BRIEN: Absolutely.
COSTELLO: I don't know.
Now in the news, good morning, everyone.
President Bush is heading to Colombia this hour after wrapping up this weekend's economic summit in Santiago, Chile. President Bush met individually with a dozen leaders, including Mexico's president, Vicente Fox. President Bush promised to make immigration reform a priority during his second term and to push ahead with the measure to give illegal immigrants guest worker status.
Secretary of State Colin Powell is in the Middle East this morning talking about reviving the peace process post-Yasser Arafat. Secretary Powell met with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon earlier. Israel has now pledged to do everything it can to ease conditions for Palestinian elections. They are slated to take place January 9.
Here in the States, the sentencing phase begins today in the Scott Peterson trial. Peterson was found guilty of killing his wife Laci and their unborn son less than two weeks ago. Jurors must now choose between a life sentence or the death penalty. Oral arguments in the penalty phase set to get under way, oh, just about four hours from now. But a delay is possible if the judge accepts a motion to seat a new jury.
And Donald Trump signing bankruptcy papers. Trump Hotels and Casinos filed for Chapter 11 in New Jersey. The company announced last August it would seek bankruptcy protection as part of a new refinancing plan. Now one to focus on the negative, Trump says he's planning to expand his casino empire into Pennsylvania and Las Vegas.
HEMMER: Got to go where the market is, Carol.
COSTELLO: Whether it fails or not.
HEMMER: That's right.
Thanks, Carol.
President Bush believes it is still possible to pass intelligence reform before the end of this year. The 9/11 reform measure hit a congressional roadblock over the weekend, though. Still, the topic of a lot of discussion. The first political setback for the White House since reelection. It's also triggered a bona fide blame game in Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: If we can't pass this bill, we are really letting the American people down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can rush things, we can push them through, we can respond to public pressure, but we need to get it right.
HEMMER (voice-over): Anger and frustration on Capitol Hill, a congressional compromise on intelligence reform comes crashing down.
SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R-MS), CHAIRMAN, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: I feel like somebody who ran 500 yards on the football field but didn't score a touchdown. I think it's most unfortunate that the Congress could not come together and pass bipartisan intelligence reform, sorely needed.
HEMMER: The bill designed to streamline and strengthen U.S. intelligence gathering, recommended by the 9/11 Commission. A Senate version passed easily last month, but conservative Republicans blocked the vote in the House, claiming the legislation would take intelligence control away from the Pentagon, possibly endangering U.S. troops in a time of war.
REP. DENNIS HASTERT (R-IL), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We want to make sure that our men and women who serve this country, that fight in Afghanistan and Iraq have the real time intelligence that they need.
HEMMER: The compromise measure had the support of the 9/11 Commissioners as well as families of 9/11 victims.
The ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee says its apparent failure sends a disturbing message.
REP. JANE HARMAN (D-CA), VICE CHAIRWOMAN, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: We had the chance yesterday. We blew the chance yesterday. What I would say to the families is we failed you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: That was from over the weekend.
Now on Monday morning, Kentucky Senator Mitch McConnell, the number two Republican in the Senate, is my guest now from Louisville, Kentucky.
Senator, welcome back and good morning to you.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), SENATE MAJORITY WHIP: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: Can you explain what happened in the House over the weekend?
MCCONNELL: Well, there were deep seated differences about whether to go forward with this bill. But I think it was Yogi Berra who once said it ain't over until it's over, and we're coming back on December the 6th and 7th. We didn't adjourn for the year and the reason we didn't adjourn for the year is that we plan to come back to this. The president's on the way back from South America, is going to lobby some more with the recalcitrant members. And I'm optimistic that we're still going to get this intelligence reform before the end of the year.
HEMMER: There are some members of the House who say the Senate acted too quickly.
How would you respond to that on your side of the chamber?
MCCONNELL: Well, obviously I don't agree with that. The bill passed the Senate by a very, very large bipartisan majority. I still think the momentum is there for getting this intelligence reform. It's important to the country and even though there are arguments that could be made, good arguments that could be made against certain parts of it, no bill is ever perfect, Bill. And I think it's time to get back together and pass this and send it on down to the president before Christmas. HEMMER: Would you say it's an issue of money that's holding this up?
MCCONNELL: Look, there are some philosophical differences about how to arrange the intelligence apparatus between the CIA and the Defense Department. It's essentially a turf battle. But, look, a lot of people have looked at this over a period of time. This bill is a step in the right direction and I'm optimistic that we're going to come back together December the 6th and 7th and pass this bill and send it on down to the president.
HEMMER: You mentioned the president coming back from Chile. Also yesterday on the talk shows, you said, "The president's coming back from Chile and I think he will work on these guys."
Did the White House not work hard enough to get this done on the House side?
MCCONNELL: No, they worked hard. But they just didn't get there yet, which is why we're going to stretch this out for another couple of weeks and take another run at it. Look, Bill, I think there's a good chance this bill may be on life supports, but it's still breathing. And I think there's a good chance that we're going to get it a couple of weeks from now.
HEMMER: In December, a lame duck session, another one?
MCCONNELL: Well, I wouldn't call it a lame duck session. It's just a couple of days that we'd be back here to do this. It's important to do it and I think we're going to get it done.
HEMMER: Let's try and button this up. We talked a lot about the White House.
What about the Department of Defense? Was the Pentagon holding this up, specifically, Donald Rumsfeld?
MCCONNELL: I don't know whether the secretary is holding it up or not. I know there's some resistance in the Defense Department about the way the intelligence is going to be shifted around. But, look, the broader issue is what's in the best interests of the country in the wake of the 9/11 attack. A whole lot of people have looked at this, both in the House and the Senate and outside, with the 9/11 Commission. Everybody who's looked at it thinks that this is an improvement that'll make America safer, give us a better chance to succeed in the war on terror. That's a step we're going to take, in my judgment. We'll either take it two weeks from now or we'll take it early next year.
HEMMER: Thank you, Senator.
Mitch McConnell from Louisville, Kentucky this morning.
MCCONNELL: Thank you, Bill.
HEMMER: All right -- Soledad. O'BRIEN: Nine players for the Indiana Pacers and Detroit Pistons and been suspended following Friday night's fight in which players fought with fans.
NBA Commissioner David Stern handed out the toughest penalties in league history.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID STERN, NBA COMMISSIONER: We have to make the point that there are boundaries in our games and that one of those boundaries which is, has always been, but is hereby announced to be immutable, is the boundary that separates the fans from the court. And players cannot lose control and go into the stands.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: The most severe penalty went to Indiana forward Ron Artest, who is now out for the rest of the season. The players union is protesting the penalties.
Mike Stone is a sports talk show host for WDFN Radio in Detroit.
Nice to see you, Mike.
Thanks for bringing us.
You were at that game, just there, a little time off, not reporting on it or anything. We've seen the videotape, obviously.
What was it like? Was it as chaotic and nutty as it seems?
MIKE STONE, WDFN RADIO HOST: Chaotic was the proper word, Soledad. It was bizarre. It was -- you just sat there. I was about 50 feet from it with my wife and we were just looking. Thankfully we weren't near the scene. It was -- and as you know, it took place late in the game and it was nuts. It was embarrassing.
But I want to make this point for all the Detroiters in the Detroit area. Detroit fans are getting a black eye over this and it shouldn't represent the whole city and the whole area. A few idiots ruined this for the whole area and the guy who threw the original beer on Artest, or whatever beverage, he should be prosecuted. All the people that threw stuff at the end when the Pacers were trying to get off, they should be prosecuted.
That said, the Pacers, Artest, Steven Jackson, they were definitely in the wrong, as well.
O'BRIEN: So it sounds like you just...
STONE: There was no...
O'BRIEN: You're doing finger pointing at a lot of people.
Let's first talk about the fans. How much of a -- do you think the fans are to blame? I mean, you know, come on, they're drinking, it's a game. Shouldn't someone who's making $5 million a year have a little self-restraint?
STONE: Absolutely. There were a lot of people that were wrong on this, the whole chain of events. But the fan is wrong for he triggered it. Ron Artest should never -- I don't care what Charles Barkley said. I love Charles, but a player who gets thrown with beer or a cup that's not harmful to a well-conditioned athlete, there's no excuse for Ron Artest going into the stands and triggering that.
Steven Jackson, he didn't come in as a peacemaker. He was in there falling away. That's ridiculous.
It all started because of the fans, what the fan did. But what Artest did was ridiculous and the suspension of Artest is well deserved. The suspension of Steven Jackson, well deserved. Jermaine O'Neal maybe got a little bit heavy because...
O'BRIEN: Charles Barkley, as you mentioned -- since you're talking about the suspensions, he said that he didn't think Ron Artest should be out for the whole season, that maybe 50 games would have been fair, and then put him into anger management. He also said, as you referred to a moment ago, this.
Let's listen to it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES BARKLEY, FORMER NBA PLAYER: When somebody hits you, you have the right to hit them back. That's what me and Commissioner Stern disagree with. Any time a fan touches you, you have the right to beat the hell out of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: He's not going for a middle ground there. You have the right to beat the hell out of them. He's obviously taking a much different position than, say, the commissioner would take.
STONE: Right. Well, obviously Charles is a former player. But what the guy who started this fight, who threw the beer and the cup, I don't think that's hitting Ron Artest. I don't think that's self- defense.
Now, Jermaine O'Neal, when he cold cocked the guy on the court, well, when the fans entered the players' house, so to speak, the court, well, maybe that's a little different. So that's why I thought the suspension of O'Neal might have been a little heavy.
But you don't go into the stands, OK? You have to be better than that.
O'BRIEN: Alcohol, over reaction, security, what do you think is also to blame here? STONE: Alcohol, probably. Maybe they should suspend alcohol midway through the third quarter. The security at the Palace was always very good. You can't predict something like that's going to happen. So I really don't blame them for the early thing. I do blame the security for somehow not getting near the tunnel at the end, because when they were just pouring all the stuff all over the Pacers, that was a disgrace. And there was no reason that fans should have been on the court. That's ridiculous. That's where security messed up.
The original stuff with Artest going into the stands, there was no way security could know anything like that was going to happen.
O'BRIEN: I've got to tell you, it's just amazing to watch. We've seen this now 50 times and you can't turn away.
Thanks for being with us this morning, Mike.
Appreciate it.
STONE: Thank you very much.
O'BRIEN: Bill.
HEMMER: We're always going to remember where we were when we first saw that videotape, don't you think?
O'BRIEN: Yes. Yes.
HEMMER: I mean the repercussions for this, I think, will be felt for years, and not just in the NBA, but quite possibly in some of the other sports we've seen, too. You had two bench clearing brawls in football over the past week -- Clemson and South Carolina over the weekend, and then last weekend Cleveland and Pittsburgh. This is yet another reminder of that.
O'BRIEN: And hockey.
HEMMER: But the big difference in this, though, this involved fans. Before that it was just players.
O'BRIEN: Yes, it's unbelievable.
HEMMER: And as Mike pointed out, players going up in the stands and vice versa, the fans on the floor. So...
O'BRIEN: Yes, and the fans coming down to the floor.
HEMMER: A check of the weather.
How about that, huh?
Here's Chad Myers watching things at the CNN Center -- how go?
How's the weather in Detroit today, Chad?
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Cool.
HEMMER: It's sunshine?
MYERS: It's a little chilly up there.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, an American gold medalist is fighting doping accusations, trying to clear his name. He's going to tell us his side of the story coming up next.
HEMMER: Also, Scott Peterson facing life or death. The penalty phase of that case set to start today in Redwood City.
O'BRIEN: And you can enjoy your Thanksgiving meal without getting stuffed. We've got some tips on healthy eating on this Turkey Day.
That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: This summer in Athens, 33-year-old Tyler Hamilton was the first American in 20 years to win Olympic gold in cycling. But that gold medal is now tainted after allegations of blood doping surfaced in September. Hamilton maintains that he is innocent.
And he joins us in the studio.
It's nice to see you.
Thanks for coming in.
TYLER HAMILTON, OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALIST: Thanks for having me.
O'BRIEN: It's very complicated, because the process of testing the blood is complicated.
But first let's talk about blood doping. Blood doping is essentially getting somebody else's blood, getting more red blood cells and getting a transfusion so that you have more endurance during the race. What happened to your blood test at the Olympics?
HAMILTON: Well, in the Olympics, I was tested the day after the time trial, which I won the gold medal. And the test came out twice negative.
O'BRIEN: And there's an A sample and a B sample.
HAMILTON: Yes, they separate your sample into two samples, A and B.
O'BRIEN: So it was the Olympics that came out negative. HAMILTON: And the A came out negative twice. And they followed protocol. They froze the B sample and -- which they said they mistakenly froze. But when the sample is negative, they freeze it.
O'BRIEN: OK, so then...
HAMILTON: Twenty-eight days later.
O'BRIEN: Twenty-eight days later...
HAMILTON: Twenty-eight days.
O'BRIEN: We're talking about Spain, a race in Spain.
HAMILTON: I was in Spain and they said my sample in Athens was positive.
O'BRIEN: Did you have a sample in Spain that tested positive?
HAMILTON: Yes, I did.
O'BRIEN: And the A sample and the B sample...
HAMILTON: But that was even -- that had many inconsistencies and it was very -- it was inconclusive for blood doping.
O'BRIEN: OK, since this is so confusing...
HAMILTON: I had a lot of expert scientists...
O'BRIEN: ... I'm going to have you just walk me through slowly.
HAMILTON: I mean it's crazy.
Sure.
O'BRIEN: So, in Spain, you had an A sample and a B sample that both tested positive.
What do you think went wrong there?
HAMILTON: No -- well, for one, from, you know, I'm not a scientist and I'm not a lawyer, so, I'm just a cyclist trying to prove my innocence with the truth. In Spain, there's a lot of inaccuracies in the test and it's less conclusive than the test in the Olympics.
O'BRIEN: And this is the same test that some people will say -- it's been used for 30 years.
HAMILTON: You wouldn't go to the dentist if they were using 30- year-old equipment.
O'BRIEN: So you think the test wasn't sensitive enough to test it...
HAMILTON: Well, what I do know is I didn't blood dope, you know? I don't have all the answers here. But something is wrong. I've been a part of at a competition...
O'BRIEN: Testing.
HAMILTON: ... testing for five years. I was one of the charter members. So I'm all about testing. I support it. I support new tests. But they have to be accurate. You know, my life is in jeopardy, my career. Many people...
O'BRIEN: And your gold medal, very frankly, is in jeopardy.
HAMILTON: Yes, I mean right now my medal is tainted and until I clear my name, it's a shame.
O'BRIEN: How do you go about doing that because once you had this, what happened in Spain, they went back to the look at the Olympic blood tests and they said now deemed suspicious.
Could you, at this point, lose your gold medal?
HAMILTON: I mean the Russians are trying to take it back, you know? Vyacheslav came off with second. But I know that what the truth is and I believe in the process and I've been waiting for the process to just run its course and I know the truth will come out so.
O'BRIEN: You're off the team now, although you're...
HAMILTON: I'm suspended by the team, which I mutually agreed with because in a situation like this, it's best to separate until you clear up the situation.
O'BRIEN: How do you go about proving your innocence in something like this? I mean what's the next step?
HAMILTON: It's hard. I mean for me it's the first time that I've ever been involved in anything like this. I mean I really wish I wasn't here to have to really explain my case.
O'BRIEN: Yes, I bet.
HAMILTON: I mean the reason why I am here is because I've really lost the P.R. battle so far. A lot of big officials who really should keep quiet until this process has run its course have spoken out to the press from the other side and really bashed my name, so to speak. And so I feel like I have to defend myself, defend my name, defend my team's name, defend my family, my friends, my sponsors. So that's why I'm here today. It's a shame.
O'BRIEN: What do you think is going to happen? I mean there are people who are looking to you and saying you're going to be the next Lance Armstrong.
What happens next for you legally? January, is that when your hearing is?
HAMILTON: Legally, yes, the case will be heard in late January so. O'BRIEN: And you have (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
HAMILTON: I mean until, you know, I have lawyers who are taking care of everything. I'm training every day and, you know, I'm -- my goal is to win the 2005 Tour de France, and that's what I have to think about.
O'BRIEN: Well, we wish the best of luck and that the whole truth comes out in the very end.
HAMILTON: Thank you.
Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Thanks for coming in to talk to us about it.
HAMILTON: Thanks a lot.
O'BRIEN: We appreciate it -- Bill.
HEMMER: All right, get a break here.
In a moment, who's to blame for the failure to pass intelligence reform? Your thoughts plus views from both sides of that aisle in a moment here.
Back with Jack after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.
Jack's got The Question of the Day.
CAFFERTY: We'll get to that in a minute.
We were just discussing donut holes, the kind of stuff that goes on during the breaks.
O'BRIEN: And calories. Well, that's...
CAFFERTY: Yes, those little, what do they call them, Munchkins?
O'BRIEN: Yes.
CAFFERTY: Love those things.
O'BRIEN: Yes, they're good.
CAFFERTY: Oh, man.
O'BRIEN: And caloric.
CAFFERTY: Yes, and, well, and, caloric, too. That, but, you know, we overlook that part. Congress has gone home for the Thanksgiving holiday without passing the bill to restructure U.S. intelligence. The cover story put out by the conservative House member standing in the way is it's all about national security. Well, don't kid yourself, kid, it's always about the money.
The Pentagon currently controls $40 billion of intelligence funding. The secretary of defense wants to keep it.
Here's the question, what ought to be done about the stalemate over the 9/11 Commission Report?
David in Ames, Iowa writes: "Jack, it's just as you expected back in July. The Congress passed it from committee to committee until after the election and now they'll bury it, claiming that when the new Congress goes into session, then it will have to be reworked."
Remember last summer they had time to debate gay marriage and an amendment to the constitution for two weeks? But they said they couldn't possibly get to this until next year. Well, it's almost next year.
Steve in Athol, Massachusetts, which is not a name you mess around with, by the way: "Only the populists can pressure Congress to act responsibly. If we all, like sheep, have no desire to vote out of office those who fail to take responsible action, then we all are left to live with the results, such as no action and, in this case, the continual disarray in our intelligence services."
Tommy in Tennessee writes: "A suggestion -- tie congressional pay to action. Set budget and task deadlines, suspend pay and all benefits until they're met. If that doesn't work, lock them in a room and let Senator Byrd read to them until they decide to get it done."
And, finally, Charles in Washington writes: "I think the Question of the Day should have been this. If someone hits you, do you then have the right to beat the hell out of them? I can't believe I just heard that on your show."
That was Charles Barkley, who often...
HEMMER: Sir Charles.
Thank you, Jack.
Let's get a break here.
In a moment, it looks to be a very emotional week in the Scott Peterson case. First, though, the judge making a critical decision. We'll get to that and more right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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