CNN.com - Transcripts

Transcript Providers

Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Title IX Lawsuit; 'Minding Your Business'; '90-Second Pop'

Aired December 01, 2004 - 07:28 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome, everybody. I'm sorry, go ahead.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: No, you go.

S. O'BRIEN: No, you go.

M. O'BRIEN: Ladies first.

S. O'BRIEN: No, you.

M. O'BRIEN: It's about half the past hour. By now, it's a little after that. But I'm Miles O'Brien in for Bill Hemmer this morning.

In a few minutes, we're going to talk about the reach of Title IX. Kind of Title IX plus here. Can this landmark law that protects female athletes be used to protect their male coaches? We'll talk to Coach Roderick Jackson, who sued under the law all the way to the Supreme Court.

S. O'BRIEN: Also this morning, "90-Second Pop" is ahead. We're talking about that little brainy guy, Ken Jennings, coming up, knocked off his "Jeopardy" throne. Did he go out on a kind of easy question? Does he even care? We're going to talk about his amazing run.

M. O'BRIEN: You're tough on him. Easy question.

S. O'BRIEN: You know what? Here's why I'm tough on him.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: And he seems like a very lovely man.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: But that was kind of an easy question, don't you think?

M. O'BRIEN: Well, I don't know. I mean, I think being under the lights and, you know...

S. O'BRIEN: Oh, blah, blah, blah. Come on!

M. O'BRIEN: There is so much pressure being on TV.

S. O'BRIEN: It was an easy question. HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: I wouldn't have gotten it.

S. O'BRIEN: You wouldn't have gotten it?

COLLINS: I don't think so.

S. O'BRIEN: It was an easy question.

COLLINS: You think tax season, or you think, like he did, you know, he was thinking about the holiday season.

S. O'BRIEN: FedEx people aren't seasonal.

COLLINS: I know. My husband used to fly for them. But, you know, like you said, in the moment of panic.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: He's won 73 consecutive games!

M. O'BRIEN: Well, this is true. He's done it all. It had to end somehow. You're right. It's too bad...

S. O'BRIEN: All right. I'm not going to bash Ken.

M. O'BRIEN: It's too bad it wasn't the second law of thermodynamics.

S. O'BRIEN: Exactly.

(CROSSTALK)

M. O'BRIEN: It was something really, like, oh, that makes sense, yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Anyway, we're going to chat with him, too. He's going to be on our show tomorrow. I'm going to ask him that.

M. O'BRIEN: You ask him.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, Ken, kind of an easy question. Of course, I wouldn't have gotten all of the 2,000, whatever, 700 other ones that he got right.

M. O'BRIEN: Right. Did you have to do all of the questions and his answers with him?

S. O'BRIEN: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: That would be very confusing.

S. O'BRIEN: That would be fun.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: So, we'll see. Headlines now. Hi, Heidi.

COLLINS: Hi, guys. I want to get straight "Now in the News" this morning.

President Bush wrapping up his visit to Canada with a stop in Halifax, Nova Scotia. The president met yesterday with Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin. Despite crowds of protestors, the president dismissed concerns about possible strains in U.S. and Canadian relations. Aides say the president will use today's speech in Halifax to call Canada a natural ally in the war on terror.

New developments this morning in Ukraine. The parliament there has voted to sack the newly-elected government and to form an interim government. The opposition cheering the no-confidence vote. The measure must still be approved by the outgoing president, though. And he has voiced his support for new elections. Ukraine's supreme court is apparently considering how to resolve the standoff.

Army Private Lynndie England returns to a military court today. England is preparing for her court-martial on charges stemming from the apparent abuse of prisoners at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison. That's set for January. The preliminary proceedings are expected to last until the end of the week.

The country's first ever secretary of Homeland Security is stepping down. Tom Ridge announced yesterday he would continue in his post until February 1 unless the Senate confirms his successor earlier. The president hailed Ridge's efforts, saying he played a vital role in protecting Americans. Possible replacements include Asa Hutchinson, the department under-secretary, and Frances Townsend, the White House homeland security advisor.

A lot of people's names in the hopper right now. It's going to be interesting to see who takes the post.

S. O'BRIEN: A tough job, too, Heidi.

COLLINS: No kidding.

S. O'BRIEN: I could imagine there would be people that they ask who will not want that job. That's a lot of pressure.

COLLINS: Yes, it's possible.

M. O'BRIEN: I'm out. I'm not doing it. Yes. I'm busy.

S. O'BRIEN: Miles says no, he's not interested.

S. O'BRIEN: Thanks, Heidi.

A New York firefighter veteran of 9/11 has been killed in fighting in Iraq. Christian Engeldrum was photographed right here in the New York "Daily News," helping to raise a flag at ground zero on September 11. That was him right there holding the ladder. The 39- year-old father of two boys was killed on Monday when his Humvee rolled over a bomb outside of Baghdad. Fellow New York firefighters are calling him the 344th casualty of 9/11.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL ALLEN, LADDER 61, FDNY: He was like the core of the house. He was a person who you could rely upon, who you could gather around and feel strength, get strength from.

LT. BRIAN HORTON, LADDER 61, FDNY: The thing that made him a good soldier also made him a good firefighter. He was very outgoing, very brave, always thought of everybody else. He was just an all- around great guy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: Sergeant Engeldrum was a decorated veteran of the Gulf War. He was an EMT, remained in the Reserves after he joined the fire department -- excuse me. On the morning of September 11, he raced to ground zero to help rescue terror victims. And on Monday, he was protecting a bridge from insurgents who were free in Falluja. A heartbreaking story there to report.

M. O'BRIEN: The landmark Title IX legislation leveled the playing field for women's sports. It's been more than 30 years now.

But does the law protect a male coach who defends his female athletes and says he was fired for doing just that?

Roderick Jackson took his case the Supreme Court yesterday, claiming he was fired by the Birmingham, Alabama School Board for complaining about discrimination on the girls' basketball team he coached.

We'll hear from the school board side in just a moment. But first, Roderick Jackson live now from Birmingham, his lawyer, Marcia Greenberger, live from Washington.

Good to have you both with us.

Mr. Jackson, let me just begin with you. Is there another way that you can go about this? In other words, could this be something where you could say you're a whistleblower as opposed to something that is protected under Title IX, which is all about gender bias?

RODERICK JACKSON, SUING SCHOOL BOARD UNDER TITLE IX: No, sir. This was a Title IX case, because it involved sex discrimination against the young ladies at the high school that I represented.

M. O'BRIEN: And give us a sense of what kind of discrimination you observed and what you said about it.

JACKSON: Well, the girls were forced to practice in the old, shabby gym with the floors not polished. The back boards were wooden. The rims were bent and not collapsible and not regulation-length. That was just one of the many things, including no access to the expense accounts to allow the girls to pay for their buses and officials. And... M. O'BRIEN: And all of this, when you compare it to the boys' team, big difference?

JACKSON: Yes, sir. Well, the boys practiced in the regulation gym, and we just thought we should rotate it. You know, no one should get exclusive use of the gym. We thought that we should take turns, make a schedule and that kind of thing. But no one wanted to hear that.

M. O'BRIEN: And then ultimately you were fired. Now, you're back on the job now, correct, just to clarify it, right?

JACKSON: Yes, sir. With the election of a new elected school board and a new school administration, we interviewed for the position and received the interim coaching position at Ensley (ph).

M. O'BRIEN: All right. So, Ms. Greenberg, this is about the interim period, the back pay and so forth. In your mind, is this a clear case that involves gender bias? Or is this somebody who has been singled out for being a whistleblower, which would be a different set of laws?

MARCIA GREENBERGER, RODERICK JACKSON'S LAWYER: Well, actually it is a clear case of gender bias. And the whistleblower laws don't really apply in this instance at all. Every single anti- discrimination law for decades, for over 40 years, has said that a part and parcel of the protection against discrimination is also the protection against retaliating against someone because they've been complaining about discrimination.

(CROSSTALK)

M. O'BRIEN: But it doesn't -- Title IX doesn't clearly state that, though, does it?

GREENBERGER: Well, Title IX has a general broad-based prohibition against discrimination. It doesn't list the kinds of discrimination or the specific practices that are involved. And that's been true for many anti-discrimination laws over the years. Some do specifically say it includes retaliation. Those are the kinds of laws that often describe the types of discrimination that are being prohibited.

Title IX just says no discrimination in or under or for those who participate in programs or activities that receive federal funds. And that's modeled on Title VI, a law that was passed in 1964 that prohibits race or national origin discrimination, using the same exact wording.

The government, since the '60s has said that part of that protection is against those who are retaliated against. The government in 1975, when Title IX regulations were issued, said same thing for Title IX.

The law for all of these anti-discrimination laws, however they're worded, for constitutional equal protection purposes, for statutory protection purposes, has always been interpreted to protect against those who complain about illegal discrimination.

M. O'BRIEN: All right.

GREENBERGER: And obviously we know why, because if people like Coach Jackson were allowed to be punished when they stepped forward, our laws wouldn't be worth the paper that they're written on.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Let's turn it now over to the other side. Ms. Greenberg and Mr. Jackson, thank you very much.

We'll turn it over now to Naomi Gittins. She is the attorney who has filed a supporting case, a friend of the court brief, for the Birmingham, Alabama School Board. She joins us now from Washington.

Ms. Gittins, I guess the question is: How broad is Title IX in your view?

NAOMI GITTINS, SR. STAFF ATTY., NATL. SCHOOL BOARDS ASSN.: Well, Title IX does say that school districts can't discriminate against people on the basis of sex. And so it all comes down to what does on the basis of sex really mean?

Well, Congress clearly was trying to protect girls and women and to give them equal opportunities and educational programs. They weren't thinking about people who might stand up and say, these people have been discriminated against. They were thinking of girls and women and not people like Mr. Jackson.

M. O'BRIEN: So you would go for a fairly narrow interpretation here. And just to be clear, you don't dispute the fact that his team was not treated as well as the boys' team at that school.

GITTINS: Well, those are the allegations that he made. And it's important to remember that there has been no factual determination as to whether the team actually was discriminated against under Title IX, or whether he actually was retaliated against. The courts have assumed that in order to decide the issue.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. So the court, in general, the Supreme Court, the Rehnquist court, generally takes a narrow view of such matters. What's your take on it?

GITTINS: That's correct. What they've said is that the most important thing in determining a statute that doesn't clearly say one way or another is to look at congressional intent. Well, there is nothing that really says that Congress intended to protect people other than girls and women who were being discriminated against on the basis of their gender.

In this case, if you want to say that Mr. Jackson was discriminated against, he was discriminated against on the basis of speaking up. And contrary to what he said, he seemed to suggest that Title IX was his only avenue for relief. Well, that isn't exactly correct. He could have, for instance, brought a claim under the First Amendment. The court... M. O'BRIEN: All right. Just a final thought, though, because I just want to get the sense of, taking aside the legalities here and whether it's the First Amendment or Title IX, was he treated fairly?

GITTINS: Again, that's something that is for a court to determine. And I suppose if the Supreme Court agrees that he does have a right to sue under Title IX, then that's something the courts will determine at later point.

M O'BRIEN: Naomi Gittins, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Marcia Greenberger and Roderick Jackson. We'll be following that story for you. Thank you for your time -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: On a much different note, it was a fairytale romance that's now ending in reality. Remember these two, a former Marine, Jason Johnson, and the Bahraini princess, Meriam Al-Khalifa? They're divorcing citing incompatibility in their marriage. Their relationship, if you're recall, was the basis for a television movie detailing how Johnson was court-martialed after he snuck Al-Khalifa into the United States. Johnson says that continuing opposition from his wife's family, the Las Vegas night life and a death threat all contributed to the end of their five-year marriage. Well, Las Vegas nightlife.

(WEATHER REPORT)

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come in the program, Dallas Mavericks' owner Mark Cuban wants to start a new kind of investment fund. Andy tells us why the NBA may have a little problem with it.

S. O'BRIEN: And it's Ginger versus Ginger on "The Real Gilligan's Island." What do the 90-second poppers have to say about a rumored rivalry? That's ahead. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: It's time for the "Question of the Day." Good morning -- Jack.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Soledad.

Tom Ridge is leaving the Department of Homeland Security. He'll be remembered for plastic sheeting, duct tape and the color-coded alert system. Giggle if you wish, but remember this: On Mr. Ridge's watch, there have been no terrorist attacks on our homeland, which brings us to the question: Has the Department of Homeland Security been right or have been lucky?

Pamela in Pinkney, Michigan" "Our borders are open doormats. Our ports, nuclear and chemical plants are still great, big, blinking targets. This administration and the Congress haven't fixed anything. So I'd have to say they've just been lucky."

Carl in Colorado Springs: "I don't think that Ridge was ever an independent thinking. Whatever the party line is what we'll hear from him. The job requires independence from the administration so that we can count on what we're told and not be left to feel like we're sitting ducks."

Dave in Japan writes: "Does anyone, Jack, find the term, "homeland security," a bit German? I mean, I'm all for controlling citizens through fear and manipulation of the media. But do we really have to use the same terminology that the Nazis used?

Lee in Kent, Ohio: "The Department of Homeland Security has been very successful at achieving in government what the average kindergartener is trained to do in the first few weeks of school. They, too can finger paint with blue, green, orange, yellow and red."

And Peter in Houston, Texas: "Three million illegals pouring into this country on our southern borders, we are in much greater danger today than 2001. Ridge tried not to notice the elephant in the front room. He preferred to pat down old ladies in wheelchairs at airports."

S. O'BRIEN: Wow! Good e-mails. We'll see what else people have to say. Thanks, Jack.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. A sports team owner makes a bizarre new bet. Rudy Giuliani back on the Wall Street. With those stories and much more, Andy Serwer "Minding Your Business." He's better than brussel sprouts big time.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Well, thank you, Miles. That may be an inside joke there, and not much more than that. Those are the only two stories I have, by the way.

A couple of big names making some headlines in the world of business today. Let's talk about Mark Cuban, first of all, the billionaire owner of the Dallas Mavericks basketball team, always dances to the beat of a different drum, this guy does. He is starting a hedge fund that is not going to invest in stocks or bonds. No. It will actually bet on sports. OK?

If you go to his Web site, which I highly commend to you, BlogMaverick.com, and go there and read about this, he rails against Wall Street, saying it's more unfair than Las Vegas. He may have a point. And suggests that you get more information when you're betting on sports. It's a better place to go.

And so he's going to open up his own little hedge fund doing that. Of course, regulators in the NBA might have a whole lot to say about this. But he loves to stir the pot.

Let's talk about Rudy Giuliani. The former New York City mayor is getting back into Wall Street; this time on the other side of the fence. Of course, in the 1980s, he was a tough cop regulator. Now, it turns out he's going to be launching an investment banking firm, taking his firm, Giuliani Partners, and buying Ernst and Young's investment banking business and forming a company called Giuliani Capitol Advisors.

A lot of people are raising their eyebrows about this. He is probably looking to earn a little bit of money, some suggest, before he makes a bid for the presidency in 2008. Some are saying.

S. O'BRIEN: Does he know anything about investment banking? I mean...

SERWER: He knows how to regulate it and bust people and put people in handcuffs. He's done that.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, right. Back to the question, you know.

SERWER: Yes.

CAFFERTY: He also was arguably the best mayor this city has had in the last 50 years, and I hope he runs for president.

SERWER: OK. Well...

M. O'BRIEN: Well, he's got to start running pretty quickly, right? I mean...

(CROSSTALK)

SERWER: Well, he's going to probably make a little money on Wall Street.

S. O'BRIEN: Make the money first.

CAFFERTY: I mean, you compare this city during the eight years Giuliani was in office with the previous four years under David Dinkins, and for that matter the previous 12 years under Ed Koch, and there is no comparison. Giuliani made huge contributions to New York City and to the daily quality of life here long before September 11 happened.

He cleaned up the streets. He busted organized crime. He put a lot of guys in prison for a very long time that should have been done years before.

S. O'BRIEN: And he (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the street...

(CROSSTALK)

CAFFERTY: Well, you know what? That's why they make bathrooms.

SERWER: That's true.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, when you're homeless you can't quite get to the bathroom.

SERWER: That's true. And there are also people on Wall Street who appreciate it. But there are also people on Wall Street who don't have fond memories of him.

CAFFERTY: No, I understand.

SERWER: So it will be very interesting.

CAFFERTY: I understand. I love Giuliani.

SERWER: I can tell.

(CROSSTALK)

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, we can tell. All right, Jack, thanks.

Still to come this morning, is Broadway ready for Mariah Carey? "90-Second Pop" is straight ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: Anytime we start the morning with Elton John, it's going to be a good day. Good morning. It's time for our Wednesday edition of "90-Second Pop" with our party of three. Andy Borowitz, minister of humor at BorowitzReport.com. Sarah Bernard, contributing editor for "New York" magazine. And B.J. Sigesmund, staff editor for "US Weekly."

Where do we begin? "Gilligan's Island," I mean, we should -- you know, you saw the ladies and their gowns.

SARAH BERNARD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NEW YORK" MAGAZINE: Let's start with that.

S. O'BRIEN: Why not? We've got a lot to cover. What's the premise behind this?

BERNARD: Oh, it's such a good question. Well, this is a new reality show by the guy who produced "The Bachelor" and "The Bachelorette"...

S. O'BRIEN: Because there aren't enough.

ANDY BOROWITZ, BOROWITZREPORT.COM: Yes.

BERNARD: ... Mike Fleiss. And he is rivaling Mark Burnett at this point for productivity, the guy behind "The Apprentice" and "Survivor." It's a combination of -- at this point there are so many reality shows we have to merge them all together to describe it. There is "Survivor." There is a little bit of "This Surreal Life" in there, because we have these C-list celebrities. I don't know what Rachel Hunter is doing on this show. And I blame her the most, because she's the one who has the most fame and didn't need to do this.

BOROWITZ: Do not defame Rachel Hunter in my presence.

BERNARD: Oh, because of her dress.

S. O'BRIEN: She looks good, though, you've got to say.

BERNARD: So the premise of this is show is that there are these two rival groups of the entire cast of "Gilligan's Island." There are seven of each, and they're fighting each other. Mary Ann and Mary Ann, Ginger and Ginger. S. O'BRIEN: So each one gets eliminated. So the one Mary Ann will stay, the one...

B.J. SIGESMUND, STAFF EDITOR, "US WEEKLY": Right.

BERNARD: Exactly. Now, the thing that happened with the show is that people are so used to being reality show contestants at this point. They just seem to sort of say same thing over and over. The cameras are on them, and they're like, I had to sleep on this really rough bed. It was really hard.

SIGESMUND: Well, speaking of the beds, I do think that some of the gimmicks on this show are kind of cute. Mary Ann and Mary Ann have to room together with Ginger and Ginger. So just like they did on the show.

BERNARD: Exactly.

SIGESMUND: And Gilligan and Skipper live together, along with the other Gilligan and Skipper in a hut.

S. O'BRIEN: Is it weird? Or is it going to fly?

BERNARD: It's really bad.

BOROWITZ: I'm nervous that it's going to spawn a genre where they're just doing reality shows based on sitcoms, like "Saved By The Bell," and they'll have, like two Screeches.

SIGESMUND: I think it might do well, though. Like, everyone I know watched it.

BERNARD: Really?

S. O'BRIEN: At the end of the day, that's what it's all about.

BOROWITZ: There you go.

SIGESMUND: My friend, Joe, called me at the end and said, did you just spend two hours watching "Gilligan's Island?"

BERNARD: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, you know, that's what it takes. All right, Mariah Carey. First, may I say, I love her?

BERNARD: Oh!

S. O'BRIEN: Long Island girl. She worked at the Ground Round.

(CROSSTALK)

SIGESMUND: Cool!

S. O'BRIEN: I love Mariah Carey. And now she's has got a comeback, because she's had a little trouble. SIGESMUND: Yes. Well, we had a little scoop in "US Weekly" this week about Mariah Carey. She's going to be on Broadway.

S. O'BRIEN: Doing what?

SIGESMUND: She is planning to create, produce and star in her own Christmas-themed show that she said was going to be an annual thing. Bennie Medina (ph), we talked to him in "US Weekly," he said it's going to be like the Rockettes. People are going to look forward it to.

And actually, I think it's a good thing, because it showcases the one thing about her that is really strong, which is her voice. You know, we're not going to be up close and personal with Mariah like in "Glitter." You know, this is just about her voice.

BOROWITZ: Oh.

SIGESMUND: And there's also some other Mariah news, which is that...

S. O'BRIEN: This whole thing about her name.

BERNARD: Yes.

SIGESMUND: ... she has a nickname. Yes, she has a nickname. You know, Jennifer Lopez is J.Lo.

S. O'BRIEN: J.Lo.

SIGESMUND: Madonna has Madge, not to mention Esther, her Hebrew name. So now Mariah Carey wants to be known as Mimi.

BERNARD: Which is also her Hebrew name, right?

BOROWITZ: You know, I did a little digging, because it would seem like Mimi is such a whacky name. She was actually given that name by Julia Roberts. That's where that came from.

BERNARD: Oh!

S. O'BRIEN: All right. Let's turn and talk about Ken Jennings. It's over. And I thought it ended on kind of an easy question. So let's watch what he messed up.

BOROWITZ: I agree.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The category is business and industry, and here is the clue, ladies and gentlemen. Most of this firm's 70,000 seasonal white-collar employees work only four months a year. Thirty seconds. Good luck. Nancy, you wrote down your response rather quickly, I thought. I hope it's correct. Let's take a look.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do too. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is H&R Block? You're right. Your wager, 4,401, taking you up to 14,401. You have a $1 lead over Ken Jennings right now. And his final response was FedEx.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: Hear the gasping. Oh, Ken. You know what? I'm bad at this game. I'm terrible at this game. I got that question.

BOROWITZ: I was going to say, I was sort of in his boat, because it said four months a year. I guessed the United States government.

BERNARD: Oh!

BOROWITZ: So I was also -- I was also wrong to answer that.

BERNARD: You know, it's...

SIGESMUND: I mean...

BERNARD: It's unbelievable what's happened to this guy. I mean, Barbara Walters has picked him as one of the 10 most fascinating people of this year to interview. He has a book deal with Random House.

BOROWITZ: So the worst thing is at home, you know, like, for the last year Ken Jennings, whenever he's had an argument with his wife, he's been like, hey, babe, Ken Jennings is always right.

(CROSSTALK)

SIGESMUND: Does anyone else think of "The Quiz Show," though?

BERNARD: Yes, a little bit.

SIGESMUND: I was reminded of "Quiz Show" of how at the end he really truly wanted to lose. And if you saw on Ken Jennings' face just now, there was...

S. O'BRIEN: Do you think he threw it?

SIGESMUND: I think that he was tired.

S. O'BRIEN: We're out of time.

SIGESMUND: He was ready to go.

S. O'BRIEN: And you're quoting that he threw it?

SIGESMUND: That he threw it.

S. O'BRIEN: Oh, my god, we're going to have to continue "90- Second Pop" over. On Friday, we'll revisit this. You guys, as always, thanks.

Miles -- back to you. M. O'BRIEN: In a moment, today's top stories, including the decision by Kweisi Mfume to step down as head of the NAACP. Does he leave behind an organization that is still relevant? We'll talk to the Reverend Al Sharpton about that ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.

Aired December 1, 2004 - 07:28 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome, everybody. I'm sorry, go ahead.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: No, you go.

S. O'BRIEN: No, you go.

M. O'BRIEN: Ladies first.

S. O'BRIEN: No, you.

M. O'BRIEN: It's about half the past hour. By now, it's a little after that. But I'm Miles O'Brien in for Bill Hemmer this morning.

In a few minutes, we're going to talk about the reach of Title IX. Kind of Title IX plus here. Can this landmark law that protects female athletes be used to protect their male coaches? We'll talk to Coach Roderick Jackson, who sued under the law all the way to the Supreme Court.

S. O'BRIEN: Also this morning, "90-Second Pop" is ahead. We're talking about that little brainy guy, Ken Jennings, coming up, knocked off his "Jeopardy" throne. Did he go out on a kind of easy question? Does he even care? We're going to talk about his amazing run.

M. O'BRIEN: You're tough on him. Easy question.

S. O'BRIEN: You know what? Here's why I'm tough on him.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: And he seems like a very lovely man.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: But that was kind of an easy question, don't you think?

M. O'BRIEN: Well, I don't know. I mean, I think being under the lights and, you know...

S. O'BRIEN: Oh, blah, blah, blah. Come on!

M. O'BRIEN: There is so much pressure being on TV.

S. O'BRIEN: It was an easy question. HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: I wouldn't have gotten it.

S. O'BRIEN: You wouldn't have gotten it?

COLLINS: I don't think so.

S. O'BRIEN: It was an easy question.

COLLINS: You think tax season, or you think, like he did, you know, he was thinking about the holiday season.

S. O'BRIEN: FedEx people aren't seasonal.

COLLINS: I know. My husband used to fly for them. But, you know, like you said, in the moment of panic.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: He's won 73 consecutive games!

M. O'BRIEN: Well, this is true. He's done it all. It had to end somehow. You're right. It's too bad...

S. O'BRIEN: All right. I'm not going to bash Ken.

M. O'BRIEN: It's too bad it wasn't the second law of thermodynamics.

S. O'BRIEN: Exactly.

(CROSSTALK)

M. O'BRIEN: It was something really, like, oh, that makes sense, yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Anyway, we're going to chat with him, too. He's going to be on our show tomorrow. I'm going to ask him that.

M. O'BRIEN: You ask him.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, Ken, kind of an easy question. Of course, I wouldn't have gotten all of the 2,000, whatever, 700 other ones that he got right.

M. O'BRIEN: Right. Did you have to do all of the questions and his answers with him?

S. O'BRIEN: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: That would be very confusing.

S. O'BRIEN: That would be fun.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: So, we'll see. Headlines now. Hi, Heidi.

COLLINS: Hi, guys. I want to get straight "Now in the News" this morning.

President Bush wrapping up his visit to Canada with a stop in Halifax, Nova Scotia. The president met yesterday with Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin. Despite crowds of protestors, the president dismissed concerns about possible strains in U.S. and Canadian relations. Aides say the president will use today's speech in Halifax to call Canada a natural ally in the war on terror.

New developments this morning in Ukraine. The parliament there has voted to sack the newly-elected government and to form an interim government. The opposition cheering the no-confidence vote. The measure must still be approved by the outgoing president, though. And he has voiced his support for new elections. Ukraine's supreme court is apparently considering how to resolve the standoff.

Army Private Lynndie England returns to a military court today. England is preparing for her court-martial on charges stemming from the apparent abuse of prisoners at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison. That's set for January. The preliminary proceedings are expected to last until the end of the week.

The country's first ever secretary of Homeland Security is stepping down. Tom Ridge announced yesterday he would continue in his post until February 1 unless the Senate confirms his successor earlier. The president hailed Ridge's efforts, saying he played a vital role in protecting Americans. Possible replacements include Asa Hutchinson, the department under-secretary, and Frances Townsend, the White House homeland security advisor.

A lot of people's names in the hopper right now. It's going to be interesting to see who takes the post.

S. O'BRIEN: A tough job, too, Heidi.

COLLINS: No kidding.

S. O'BRIEN: I could imagine there would be people that they ask who will not want that job. That's a lot of pressure.

COLLINS: Yes, it's possible.

M. O'BRIEN: I'm out. I'm not doing it. Yes. I'm busy.

S. O'BRIEN: Miles says no, he's not interested.

S. O'BRIEN: Thanks, Heidi.

A New York firefighter veteran of 9/11 has been killed in fighting in Iraq. Christian Engeldrum was photographed right here in the New York "Daily News," helping to raise a flag at ground zero on September 11. That was him right there holding the ladder. The 39- year-old father of two boys was killed on Monday when his Humvee rolled over a bomb outside of Baghdad. Fellow New York firefighters are calling him the 344th casualty of 9/11.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL ALLEN, LADDER 61, FDNY: He was like the core of the house. He was a person who you could rely upon, who you could gather around and feel strength, get strength from.

LT. BRIAN HORTON, LADDER 61, FDNY: The thing that made him a good soldier also made him a good firefighter. He was very outgoing, very brave, always thought of everybody else. He was just an all- around great guy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: Sergeant Engeldrum was a decorated veteran of the Gulf War. He was an EMT, remained in the Reserves after he joined the fire department -- excuse me. On the morning of September 11, he raced to ground zero to help rescue terror victims. And on Monday, he was protecting a bridge from insurgents who were free in Falluja. A heartbreaking story there to report.

M. O'BRIEN: The landmark Title IX legislation leveled the playing field for women's sports. It's been more than 30 years now.

But does the law protect a male coach who defends his female athletes and says he was fired for doing just that?

Roderick Jackson took his case the Supreme Court yesterday, claiming he was fired by the Birmingham, Alabama School Board for complaining about discrimination on the girls' basketball team he coached.

We'll hear from the school board side in just a moment. But first, Roderick Jackson live now from Birmingham, his lawyer, Marcia Greenberger, live from Washington.

Good to have you both with us.

Mr. Jackson, let me just begin with you. Is there another way that you can go about this? In other words, could this be something where you could say you're a whistleblower as opposed to something that is protected under Title IX, which is all about gender bias?

RODERICK JACKSON, SUING SCHOOL BOARD UNDER TITLE IX: No, sir. This was a Title IX case, because it involved sex discrimination against the young ladies at the high school that I represented.

M. O'BRIEN: And give us a sense of what kind of discrimination you observed and what you said about it.

JACKSON: Well, the girls were forced to practice in the old, shabby gym with the floors not polished. The back boards were wooden. The rims were bent and not collapsible and not regulation-length. That was just one of the many things, including no access to the expense accounts to allow the girls to pay for their buses and officials. And... M. O'BRIEN: And all of this, when you compare it to the boys' team, big difference?

JACKSON: Yes, sir. Well, the boys practiced in the regulation gym, and we just thought we should rotate it. You know, no one should get exclusive use of the gym. We thought that we should take turns, make a schedule and that kind of thing. But no one wanted to hear that.

M. O'BRIEN: And then ultimately you were fired. Now, you're back on the job now, correct, just to clarify it, right?

JACKSON: Yes, sir. With the election of a new elected school board and a new school administration, we interviewed for the position and received the interim coaching position at Ensley (ph).

M. O'BRIEN: All right. So, Ms. Greenberg, this is about the interim period, the back pay and so forth. In your mind, is this a clear case that involves gender bias? Or is this somebody who has been singled out for being a whistleblower, which would be a different set of laws?

MARCIA GREENBERGER, RODERICK JACKSON'S LAWYER: Well, actually it is a clear case of gender bias. And the whistleblower laws don't really apply in this instance at all. Every single anti- discrimination law for decades, for over 40 years, has said that a part and parcel of the protection against discrimination is also the protection against retaliating against someone because they've been complaining about discrimination.

(CROSSTALK)

M. O'BRIEN: But it doesn't -- Title IX doesn't clearly state that, though, does it?

GREENBERGER: Well, Title IX has a general broad-based prohibition against discrimination. It doesn't list the kinds of discrimination or the specific practices that are involved. And that's been true for many anti-discrimination laws over the years. Some do specifically say it includes retaliation. Those are the kinds of laws that often describe the types of discrimination that are being prohibited.

Title IX just says no discrimination in or under or for those who participate in programs or activities that receive federal funds. And that's modeled on Title VI, a law that was passed in 1964 that prohibits race or national origin discrimination, using the same exact wording.

The government, since the '60s has said that part of that protection is against those who are retaliated against. The government in 1975, when Title IX regulations were issued, said same thing for Title IX.

The law for all of these anti-discrimination laws, however they're worded, for constitutional equal protection purposes, for statutory protection purposes, has always been interpreted to protect against those who complain about illegal discrimination.

M. O'BRIEN: All right.

GREENBERGER: And obviously we know why, because if people like Coach Jackson were allowed to be punished when they stepped forward, our laws wouldn't be worth the paper that they're written on.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Let's turn it now over to the other side. Ms. Greenberg and Mr. Jackson, thank you very much.

We'll turn it over now to Naomi Gittins. She is the attorney who has filed a supporting case, a friend of the court brief, for the Birmingham, Alabama School Board. She joins us now from Washington.

Ms. Gittins, I guess the question is: How broad is Title IX in your view?

NAOMI GITTINS, SR. STAFF ATTY., NATL. SCHOOL BOARDS ASSN.: Well, Title IX does say that school districts can't discriminate against people on the basis of sex. And so it all comes down to what does on the basis of sex really mean?

Well, Congress clearly was trying to protect girls and women and to give them equal opportunities and educational programs. They weren't thinking about people who might stand up and say, these people have been discriminated against. They were thinking of girls and women and not people like Mr. Jackson.

M. O'BRIEN: So you would go for a fairly narrow interpretation here. And just to be clear, you don't dispute the fact that his team was not treated as well as the boys' team at that school.

GITTINS: Well, those are the allegations that he made. And it's important to remember that there has been no factual determination as to whether the team actually was discriminated against under Title IX, or whether he actually was retaliated against. The courts have assumed that in order to decide the issue.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. So the court, in general, the Supreme Court, the Rehnquist court, generally takes a narrow view of such matters. What's your take on it?

GITTINS: That's correct. What they've said is that the most important thing in determining a statute that doesn't clearly say one way or another is to look at congressional intent. Well, there is nothing that really says that Congress intended to protect people other than girls and women who were being discriminated against on the basis of their gender.

In this case, if you want to say that Mr. Jackson was discriminated against, he was discriminated against on the basis of speaking up. And contrary to what he said, he seemed to suggest that Title IX was his only avenue for relief. Well, that isn't exactly correct. He could have, for instance, brought a claim under the First Amendment. The court... M. O'BRIEN: All right. Just a final thought, though, because I just want to get the sense of, taking aside the legalities here and whether it's the First Amendment or Title IX, was he treated fairly?

GITTINS: Again, that's something that is for a court to determine. And I suppose if the Supreme Court agrees that he does have a right to sue under Title IX, then that's something the courts will determine at later point.

M O'BRIEN: Naomi Gittins, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Marcia Greenberger and Roderick Jackson. We'll be following that story for you. Thank you for your time -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: On a much different note, it was a fairytale romance that's now ending in reality. Remember these two, a former Marine, Jason Johnson, and the Bahraini princess, Meriam Al-Khalifa? They're divorcing citing incompatibility in their marriage. Their relationship, if you're recall, was the basis for a television movie detailing how Johnson was court-martialed after he snuck Al-Khalifa into the United States. Johnson says that continuing opposition from his wife's family, the Las Vegas night life and a death threat all contributed to the end of their five-year marriage. Well, Las Vegas nightlife.

(WEATHER REPORT)

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come in the program, Dallas Mavericks' owner Mark Cuban wants to start a new kind of investment fund. Andy tells us why the NBA may have a little problem with it.

S. O'BRIEN: And it's Ginger versus Ginger on "The Real Gilligan's Island." What do the 90-second poppers have to say about a rumored rivalry? That's ahead. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: It's time for the "Question of the Day." Good morning -- Jack.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Soledad.

Tom Ridge is leaving the Department of Homeland Security. He'll be remembered for plastic sheeting, duct tape and the color-coded alert system. Giggle if you wish, but remember this: On Mr. Ridge's watch, there have been no terrorist attacks on our homeland, which brings us to the question: Has the Department of Homeland Security been right or have been lucky?

Pamela in Pinkney, Michigan" "Our borders are open doormats. Our ports, nuclear and chemical plants are still great, big, blinking targets. This administration and the Congress haven't fixed anything. So I'd have to say they've just been lucky."

Carl in Colorado Springs: "I don't think that Ridge was ever an independent thinking. Whatever the party line is what we'll hear from him. The job requires independence from the administration so that we can count on what we're told and not be left to feel like we're sitting ducks."

Dave in Japan writes: "Does anyone, Jack, find the term, "homeland security," a bit German? I mean, I'm all for controlling citizens through fear and manipulation of the media. But do we really have to use the same terminology that the Nazis used?

Lee in Kent, Ohio: "The Department of Homeland Security has been very successful at achieving in government what the average kindergartener is trained to do in the first few weeks of school. They, too can finger paint with blue, green, orange, yellow and red."

And Peter in Houston, Texas: "Three million illegals pouring into this country on our southern borders, we are in much greater danger today than 2001. Ridge tried not to notice the elephant in the front room. He preferred to pat down old ladies in wheelchairs at airports."

S. O'BRIEN: Wow! Good e-mails. We'll see what else people have to say. Thanks, Jack.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. A sports team owner makes a bizarre new bet. Rudy Giuliani back on the Wall Street. With those stories and much more, Andy Serwer "Minding Your Business." He's better than brussel sprouts big time.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Well, thank you, Miles. That may be an inside joke there, and not much more than that. Those are the only two stories I have, by the way.

A couple of big names making some headlines in the world of business today. Let's talk about Mark Cuban, first of all, the billionaire owner of the Dallas Mavericks basketball team, always dances to the beat of a different drum, this guy does. He is starting a hedge fund that is not going to invest in stocks or bonds. No. It will actually bet on sports. OK?

If you go to his Web site, which I highly commend to you, BlogMaverick.com, and go there and read about this, he rails against Wall Street, saying it's more unfair than Las Vegas. He may have a point. And suggests that you get more information when you're betting on sports. It's a better place to go.

And so he's going to open up his own little hedge fund doing that. Of course, regulators in the NBA might have a whole lot to say about this. But he loves to stir the pot.

Let's talk about Rudy Giuliani. The former New York City mayor is getting back into Wall Street; this time on the other side of the fence. Of course, in the 1980s, he was a tough cop regulator. Now, it turns out he's going to be launching an investment banking firm, taking his firm, Giuliani Partners, and buying Ernst and Young's investment banking business and forming a company called Giuliani Capitol Advisors.

A lot of people are raising their eyebrows about this. He is probably looking to earn a little bit of money, some suggest, before he makes a bid for the presidency in 2008. Some are saying.

S. O'BRIEN: Does he know anything about investment banking? I mean...

SERWER: He knows how to regulate it and bust people and put people in handcuffs. He's done that.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, right. Back to the question, you know.

SERWER: Yes.

CAFFERTY: He also was arguably the best mayor this city has had in the last 50 years, and I hope he runs for president.

SERWER: OK. Well...

M. O'BRIEN: Well, he's got to start running pretty quickly, right? I mean...

(CROSSTALK)

SERWER: Well, he's going to probably make a little money on Wall Street.

S. O'BRIEN: Make the money first.

CAFFERTY: I mean, you compare this city during the eight years Giuliani was in office with the previous four years under David Dinkins, and for that matter the previous 12 years under Ed Koch, and there is no comparison. Giuliani made huge contributions to New York City and to the daily quality of life here long before September 11 happened.

He cleaned up the streets. He busted organized crime. He put a lot of guys in prison for a very long time that should have been done years before.

S. O'BRIEN: And he (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the street...

(CROSSTALK)

CAFFERTY: Well, you know what? That's why they make bathrooms.

SERWER: That's true.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, when you're homeless you can't quite get to the bathroom.

SERWER: That's true. And there are also people on Wall Street who appreciate it. But there are also people on Wall Street who don't have fond memories of him.

CAFFERTY: No, I understand.

SERWER: So it will be very interesting.

CAFFERTY: I understand. I love Giuliani.

SERWER: I can tell.

(CROSSTALK)

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, we can tell. All right, Jack, thanks.

Still to come this morning, is Broadway ready for Mariah Carey? "90-Second Pop" is straight ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: Anytime we start the morning with Elton John, it's going to be a good day. Good morning. It's time for our Wednesday edition of "90-Second Pop" with our party of three. Andy Borowitz, minister of humor at BorowitzReport.com. Sarah Bernard, contributing editor for "New York" magazine. And B.J. Sigesmund, staff editor for "US Weekly."

Where do we begin? "Gilligan's Island," I mean, we should -- you know, you saw the ladies and their gowns.

SARAH BERNARD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NEW YORK" MAGAZINE: Let's start with that.

S. O'BRIEN: Why not? We've got a lot to cover. What's the premise behind this?

BERNARD: Oh, it's such a good question. Well, this is a new reality show by the guy who produced "The Bachelor" and "The Bachelorette"...

S. O'BRIEN: Because there aren't enough.

ANDY BOROWITZ, BOROWITZREPORT.COM: Yes.

BERNARD: ... Mike Fleiss. And he is rivaling Mark Burnett at this point for productivity, the guy behind "The Apprentice" and "Survivor." It's a combination of -- at this point there are so many reality shows we have to merge them all together to describe it. There is "Survivor." There is a little bit of "This Surreal Life" in there, because we have these C-list celebrities. I don't know what Rachel Hunter is doing on this show. And I blame her the most, because she's the one who has the most fame and didn't need to do this.

BOROWITZ: Do not defame Rachel Hunter in my presence.

BERNARD: Oh, because of her dress.

S. O'BRIEN: She looks good, though, you've got to say.

BERNARD: So the premise of this is show is that there are these two rival groups of the entire cast of "Gilligan's Island." There are seven of each, and they're fighting each other. Mary Ann and Mary Ann, Ginger and Ginger. S. O'BRIEN: So each one gets eliminated. So the one Mary Ann will stay, the one...

B.J. SIGESMUND, STAFF EDITOR, "US WEEKLY": Right.

BERNARD: Exactly. Now, the thing that happened with the show is that people are so used to being reality show contestants at this point. They just seem to sort of say same thing over and over. The cameras are on them, and they're like, I had to sleep on this really rough bed. It was really hard.

SIGESMUND: Well, speaking of the beds, I do think that some of the gimmicks on this show are kind of cute. Mary Ann and Mary Ann have to room together with Ginger and Ginger. So just like they did on the show.

BERNARD: Exactly.

SIGESMUND: And Gilligan and Skipper live together, along with the other Gilligan and Skipper in a hut.

S. O'BRIEN: Is it weird? Or is it going to fly?

BERNARD: It's really bad.

BOROWITZ: I'm nervous that it's going to spawn a genre where they're just doing reality shows based on sitcoms, like "Saved By The Bell," and they'll have, like two Screeches.

SIGESMUND: I think it might do well, though. Like, everyone I know watched it.

BERNARD: Really?

S. O'BRIEN: At the end of the day, that's what it's all about.

BOROWITZ: There you go.

SIGESMUND: My friend, Joe, called me at the end and said, did you just spend two hours watching "Gilligan's Island?"

BERNARD: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, you know, that's what it takes. All right, Mariah Carey. First, may I say, I love her?

BERNARD: Oh!

S. O'BRIEN: Long Island girl. She worked at the Ground Round.

(CROSSTALK)

SIGESMUND: Cool!

S. O'BRIEN: I love Mariah Carey. And now she's has got a comeback, because she's had a little trouble. SIGESMUND: Yes. Well, we had a little scoop in "US Weekly" this week about Mariah Carey. She's going to be on Broadway.

S. O'BRIEN: Doing what?

SIGESMUND: She is planning to create, produce and star in her own Christmas-themed show that she said was going to be an annual thing. Bennie Medina (ph), we talked to him in "US Weekly," he said it's going to be like the Rockettes. People are going to look forward it to.

And actually, I think it's a good thing, because it showcases the one thing about her that is really strong, which is her voice. You know, we're not going to be up close and personal with Mariah like in "Glitter." You know, this is just about her voice.

BOROWITZ: Oh.

SIGESMUND: And there's also some other Mariah news, which is that...

S. O'BRIEN: This whole thing about her name.

BERNARD: Yes.

SIGESMUND: ... she has a nickname. Yes, she has a nickname. You know, Jennifer Lopez is J.Lo.

S. O'BRIEN: J.Lo.

SIGESMUND: Madonna has Madge, not to mention Esther, her Hebrew name. So now Mariah Carey wants to be known as Mimi.

BERNARD: Which is also her Hebrew name, right?

BOROWITZ: You know, I did a little digging, because it would seem like Mimi is such a whacky name. She was actually given that name by Julia Roberts. That's where that came from.

BERNARD: Oh!

S. O'BRIEN: All right. Let's turn and talk about Ken Jennings. It's over. And I thought it ended on kind of an easy question. So let's watch what he messed up.

BOROWITZ: I agree.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The category is business and industry, and here is the clue, ladies and gentlemen. Most of this firm's 70,000 seasonal white-collar employees work only four months a year. Thirty seconds. Good luck. Nancy, you wrote down your response rather quickly, I thought. I hope it's correct. Let's take a look.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do too. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is H&R Block? You're right. Your wager, 4,401, taking you up to 14,401. You have a $1 lead over Ken Jennings right now. And his final response was FedEx.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: Hear the gasping. Oh, Ken. You know what? I'm bad at this game. I'm terrible at this game. I got that question.

BOROWITZ: I was going to say, I was sort of in his boat, because it said four months a year. I guessed the United States government.

BERNARD: Oh!

BOROWITZ: So I was also -- I was also wrong to answer that.

BERNARD: You know, it's...

SIGESMUND: I mean...

BERNARD: It's unbelievable what's happened to this guy. I mean, Barbara Walters has picked him as one of the 10 most fascinating people of this year to interview. He has a book deal with Random House.

BOROWITZ: So the worst thing is at home, you know, like, for the last year Ken Jennings, whenever he's had an argument with his wife, he's been like, hey, babe, Ken Jennings is always right.

(CROSSTALK)

SIGESMUND: Does anyone else think of "The Quiz Show," though?

BERNARD: Yes, a little bit.

SIGESMUND: I was reminded of "Quiz Show" of how at the end he really truly wanted to lose. And if you saw on Ken Jennings' face just now, there was...

S. O'BRIEN: Do you think he threw it?

SIGESMUND: I think that he was tired.

S. O'BRIEN: We're out of time.

SIGESMUND: He was ready to go.

S. O'BRIEN: And you're quoting that he threw it?

SIGESMUND: That he threw it.

S. O'BRIEN: Oh, my god, we're going to have to continue "90- Second Pop" over. On Friday, we'll revisit this. You guys, as always, thanks.

Miles -- back to you. M. O'BRIEN: In a moment, today's top stories, including the decision by Kweisi Mfume to step down as head of the NAACP. Does he leave behind an organization that is still relevant? We'll talk to the Reverend Al Sharpton about that ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.