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American Morning
Discussion With Kerik's Lawyer; Los Angeles Authorities Concerned Shoulder-Launched Missiles Could be Used Against Civilian Aircraft
Aired December 16, 2004 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And that is another beautiful shot of Central Park. It's pretty good. Welcome back, everybody. Half past the hour on this Thursday morning. Bill Hemmer is off this morning. Miles O'Brien, though, filling in. Thank you very much.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: It's a beautiful morning in New York, very cold.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes, but hey, it's winter as Chad would say.
M. O'BRIEN: That's it, it gets cold in the winter in New York. This is not breaking news.
All right, good morning. Some other stories to tell you about this half hour. We're going to look at what could mean the difference between life and death in the event of an anthrax attack. Dr. Sanjay Gupta says health officials have been studying what happened three years ago, and we'll find out what they learned.
S. O'BRIEN: Also this morning, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani has been quoted as saying his former police commissioner Bernard Kerik has explaining to do after his nomination to the Homeland Security Department collapsed in scandal. In just a few moments we'll talk to Kerik's attorney and see if we can get that explanation.
M. O'BRIEN: And let's the latest on that tape supposedly from Osama bin Laden. Kelly Wallace here with that.
Hey, Kelly.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Miles. That's exactly where we begin.
Now in the news, this breaking story we've been telling you about all morning, a new audio tape surfacing, believed to be from Osama bin Laden. On that tape, the December 6th attack on an American consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia is referenced. The message appeared on Arabic Web sites today. More on this story throughout the morning here on AMERICAN MORNING.
Now to news about Britain's highest court. It has ruled against holding terror suspects indefinitely without trial. Today's ruling coming in the case of nine men suspected of terror-related activities. They've been held in a British prison for three years, since soon after the September 11th attacks. No word yet on when or if the men would be released.
And in sports news, track star Marion Jones taking her accuser in the sports steroid scandal to court. Jones filing a $25 million lawsuit against Victor Conte, fonder of BALCO. That's the company at the center of the sports doping controversy. Jones says Conte defamed her by claiming he gave her steroids before the Olympics four years ago. Conte calling the suit a, quote, "P.R. stunt." That's a quick check of the hour's top stories. Now to Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: He was the nominee to head homeland security, then- former New York police chief Bernard Kerik abruptly withdrew his name, citing an immigration problem with a nanny he hired, but speculation has been steadily growing about other possible skeletons in the closet. Here to join us this morning, Kerik's attorney, Joseph Tacopina.
Nice to see you. Thanks for being with us.
Lots of questions to talk to. Certainly in the time since the name was announced as the president's nominee, new revelations, rather, came out. Is Bernard Kerik facing any charges for illegal improprieties at this point?
JOSEPH TACOPINA, KERIK'S ATTORNEY: Not really so much new revelations, by the way. They're old revelations rehashed with extended facts on some occasions. Look, in the last week, there has been a lot of unfortunate things that have happened for Bernard Kerik, and for the city, quite frankly. But there've been a lot of things reported, some of which are accurate, some have not been accurate and others which have been greatly exaggerated.
S. O'BRIEN: What's inaccurate and greatly exaggerated? Where is the media getting it wrong?
TACOPINA: Well, for instance, let's just take yesterday's story about his Riverdale apartment when he was the department of corrections commissioner. There was a story leaking Bernie Kerik, a law enforcement guy, who dedicated his life to this country and this city, accused of having some organized crime links. I mean, that's what's so dangerous and ambiguous about these stories. The two people who applied for permits to do construction on that unit were hired by the building before Bernie Kerik ever bought that unit. Bernie Kerik never met those two guys, who allegedly had links to organized crime, never spoke to those two guys, never hired those two guys, never paid them a dollar, and more importantly, they never did a stitch of work on his place. They were hired by the building, and yet they make a time to him, like he has some connection to these guys, and that's so -- it's unfair.
S. O'BRIEN: How about questions about, for example, the nanny issue, which is exactly what Bernard Kerik said ins they statement when he said he was going to withdraw his name? He said in completing the documents, it was brought to his attention that the woman's immigration status was an issue, and also that the tax filing status of her employment was also an issue. What about that? TACOPINA: And that was a mistake. He made and error, he fessed up to it. He apologized for both the error and the embarrassment it caused the president, the mayor, the distraction it caused the country in getting a homeland security chief in place.
S. O'BRIEN: So she no longer works for the family?
TACOPINA: No, and she hadn't really quite some time before the nomination process, or at least the nomination process had began. That's the reason, and the only reason he stepped down. These other things were things that were known, and things that were out there and disclosed.
S. O'BRIEN: There are people who might say, he is the chief of police. He's got to know he's got to file taxes, I mean, come on. I think there's some other people who might be able to get away with saying, you know, I had no idea, but for the chief of police?
TACOPINA: Look, without getting into all the details, that has been rectified, it's being rectified. You know, he's using accounts. He was using accounts.
I will tell you this, it came to Bernie Kerik's attention. He's sort of a busy guy now. I will tell you that. He did not know of the until Wednesday night there was a tax issue with the nanny. He just didn't know. It was not really something he was personally handling. When he found that out, he did a further investigation, he himself, and he uncovered the fact that she had real immigration issues and maybe some of the information he had was not accurate, and he immediately notified the White House.
S. O'BRIEN: There was a story about, and you know this, the ground zero apartment, which was supposed to be used for workers from ground zero. And you're getting mad...
TACOPINA: Soledad, it's -- I understand.
S. O'BRIEN: But let me just explain for people who don't it. The ground zero apartment was supposed to be used for workers who were taking a break from the cleanup and recovery of ground zero. There were allegations that Bernard Kerik used that for trysts with not one mistress, but two. Andy validity to that?
TACOPINA: Let me just say this, first of all, I am not going to get into Bernard Kerik's personal affairs. And that no comment doesn't mean that I accept the stories. I think like everything else, you have to sort of blend those three different things truth, exaggerations and false.
But let me just say this, Bernie, when he's ready, will discuss that. As far as any apartment, you know, the stories aren't even really saying that. What they're saying, is that there was an apartment in that building used for rescue workers, and after the rescue-and-recovery efforts were done and completed, that Bernie Kerik rented an apartment in that same building. Now I got to tell you, one, I don't know if that's true, and, again, I'm not getting into his personal details, whether he rented an apartment or not. More importantly, so what? So what if he paid rent for an apartment to better our city after the rescue-and-recovery effort was complete? Again, that's something where people are trying to connect dots and make something look sinister when it's not.
S. O'BRIEN: Why do you think people are doing that?
(CROSSTALK)
S. O'BRIEN: No bad will on my part. I'm curious why the stories are coming out.
TACOPINA: And you know, so am I, because a lot of these stories are six, seven and eight years old. And why now? Why all of a sudden are they piling on?
S. O'BRIEN: Has he angered a lot of people in his day?
TACOPINA: Well, let me say this, Bernie Kerik has some enemies, clearly. He ruled with pretty tough iron fist when he was chief of corrections, and chief of police. He made some enemies with some union members, a lot of who are now coming to the fore, going on TV interviews, saying, 12 years ago, Bernie Kerik didn't promote me, and doing all of these things. It's a core group of guys from a particularly...
S. O'BRIEN: Yes, but the allegations we're talking about are not, Bernie Kerik didn't promote me; these are much different allegations.
TACOPINA: They're leaking stories that are just factually inaccurate. I mean, everyone who said something about Bernie Kerik in a negative light, recording an apartment, a company, a gift, are people who have a massive grudge against Bernie Kerik. You have to look at the sources, and that's every single one of these had issues with Bernie.
S. O'BRIEN: We don't have a ton of time, but how's he doing? I mean, it's got to be tough.
TACOPINA: He's getting to the point where he's going through swings. I mean, he was distraught initially, that Friday, Saturday, Sunday, distraught, primarily because of what he believed was an embarrassing situation he caused on a lot of people, and also because he really wanted to serve as secretary of homeland security. I think he would have made a great difference, and he was disappointed he missed that opportunity.
Now he's starting to get a little angry, and he's going to start kicking back and answering a little bit. He'll be back. He's a strong guy. Let's not forget the lifetime -- three four lifetimes worth of contributions this guy made.
S. O'BRIEN: Joseph Tacopina, nice to see you. Thanks for coming to talk to us -- Miles. M. O'BRIEN: Los Angeles authorities this week said they are concerned a shoulder-launched missile could be used against civilian aircraft or airliners. That's the focus of our CNN Security Watch this morning. Authorities are ramping up security at LAX.
Randy Parsons, a special agent in charge for counterterrorism in the FBI's L.A. field office, joins us live now from Covina, California.
Good to have you with us, Mr. Parsons.
RANDY PARSONS, L.A. FBI AGENT FOR COUNTERTERRORISM, LOS ANGELES: Good morning, Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: What's new in this threat? We've heard the threat of shoulder-launched missiles for quite some time now. There was an airplane struck in Baghdad a year ago, a DHL freighter a year ago, and then there was an attempt to shoot one down, an Israeli airline in Kenya. What's new?
PARSONS: Not a lot new, Miles. This has been considered a substantial threat for quite some time. Throughout the world there've been about 29 attacks over the last 20 or 30 years, but what maintains this is a substantial threat or several factors about these weapons.
They're easily accessible or readily accessible on the black market. Some of the older versions are relatively affordable on the black market. They can -- an average tube is five feet long. Can be broken down into three different sections that could fit into a suitcase. It doesn't take a lot of training or skill to fire one of these weapons.
M. O'BRIEN: We should point out that that video we just showed has nothing to do with what we're talking about. I want to be clear that this is a very different looking thing than an AK-47, which we saw in that video just there.
Give us a sense of how difficult it is to guard against this sort of thing? We're talking about airliners 15,000 feet and below, so we're talking about approach -- a fairly long period of the approach, as well as after departure. Big swaths of turf need to be patrolled. How can you guard against it?
PARSONS: Well, you're right, and particularly at an airport like LAX, the surrounding terrain is mostly flat. The other side of the runway is water. The kinds of things that can be done are being done in terms of security measures. Increased patrol. That's land-based patrol, water and air and educational process for the uniformed officers to recognize these weapons and how they might come across them. The educational process also involves educating the public -- what you're doing right here, Miles, gets the word out.
I know in the community surrounding LAX, community members and officials and security officials have been contacted and provided training about these weapons. It's clear we can't protect every target. So it's absolutely critical that we have the eyes and the ears of the public involved, and local law enforcement.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. And I'm going to ask you one more question. Hopefully we can get up a picture of an actual surface-to- air missile so people can know what to look out for. Looks a little more like a bazooka than a gun. It's shoulder mounted. One of the things that has been talked about frequently is putting on airliners expensive systems that are designed to defend against this. It's routine sort of equipment on military type of aircraft.
There you go. That's the kind of thing we're talking about here. It would be difficult to be inconspicuous with that kind of thing. Nevertheless, if you were in a boat or on top of a building, you could probably hide. Nevertheless, do you think it's time that the airlines, under tremendous financial duress, spend $1 million per airliner to put in some equipment to stop this?
PARSONS: What I can say, Miles, is that there are systems that are in place now, better systems are being developed. Countermeasures are a big part of this, because, as I said earlier, what can be done to prevent this kind of attack -- and that's certainly the kind of thing that can help is developing and implementing a system like that.
M. O'BRIEN: Randy Parsons, who's with the L.A. Field Office, special agent in charge of counterterrorism out there, thanks for your time this morning.
PARSONS: Thank you, Miles. My pleasure.
M. O'BRIEN: Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, our holiday homefront. A soldier serving in Iraq gets a video visit with his family back home.
M. O'BRIEN: An anthrax terror attack killed five people in 2001. You remember that? Now there are recommendations on how to save lives if there's another similar attack.
S. O'BRIEN: And more trouble at Krispy Kreme. Andy Serwer's going to tell us if we'll be eating doughnuts in the future or just the holes. Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
M. O'BRIEN: All right, "Paging Dr. Gupta" time. What's the best way to protect the public in the event of a future anthrax attack? Sanjay reports on a new study that suggests a rapid response would save lives.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An anthrax-laden letter sent to an office building in Washington, D.C. went through this post office in October of 2001. Leroy Richmond was working there at the time and he was one of four from the post office to get sick. LEROY RICHMOND, ANTHRAX SURVIVOR: My breathing became shallow. There was constriction in my chest. I had this pounding headache. And to be honest with you, I knew I was sick.
GUPTA: He survived. Two of his colleagues did not. He says, and doctors at the local hospital confirm, that most of the postal workers weren't given antibiotics until at least ten days after they were exposed. At the time, nobody realized that anthrax spores could escape an envelope without being opened.
But across town at the Senate office that received the letter, which was opened, staffers were given antibiotics within three days. No one there got sick. And that supports what researchers at the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health found in their study, published in the journal "Nature."
RON BROOKMEYER, JOHNS HOPKINS SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Our research shows that if we could get antibiotics to people within six days of exposure to the anthrax, we could prevent seventy percent of cases.
GUPTA: But catching it within six days can be problematic.
DR. JAMES CAMPBELL, UNIV. OF MD. SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: It is true that caught early, we think antibiotics would work. But most cases when people become ill with anthrax -- inhalational anthrax, you don't recognize it as anthrax right away.
GUPTA: Brookmeyer agrees that the current public health system for early detection may not be sufficient.
BROOKMEYER: I think we can do better. I think there are a lot of improvements that could be made to public health preparedness in terms of detecting emerging outbreaks.
GUPTA: But that, of course, takes more money. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
M. O'BRIEN: And the Johns Hopkins study says delaying anthrax treatment ten days or more would reduce the prevention figure to less than fifty percent -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, Krispy Kreme may have the wrong financial recipe. Andy Serwer checks up on the doughnut empire's future, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.
CAFFERTY: Another round of negative news for Krispy Kreme, the doughnut folks. And Enron, maybe it'll get some much needed cash. With those stories and a look at some economic data, here's Andy Serwer, "Minding Your Business." Good morning. You have to put the food down now and work.
SERWER: You caught me. Yes, doughnut news. Let's check out what the action was yesterday on Wall Street. Dow was up a bit. We continue that rally. So was the Nasdaq, so was the S&P merger activity, hot and heavy. This morning jobless claims were down sharply, which is good news, but housing starts also down, which is bad news. Also you have the bin Laden tape, so probably a lot of volatility at the open this morning.
From the department of world of troubled companies segment, we're going to talk about a couple. And first of all, Krispy Kreme doughnuts, They just have been really not being -- getting up early in the morning and making the doughnuts very well lately. Second time in five days, Jack, they've had to delay their filing, their quarterly filing to the Securities Exchange Commission. Security Exchange Commission does not like that. Wall Street doesn't like that at all.
That is bad news. They don't have their act together. And there we go. Sliding down the slope. Down 70 percent this year. And I know all about that because I wrote a favorable story about Krispy Kreme before that decline, so it -- people constantly remind me of that, and I don't know why. The prescient business journalist that I am.
And very quickly, Enron, of course, is in a world of hurt here. And they're actually - it's interesting -- they're actually owed about $400,000. Unclaimed property. They're owed $143,000 by, 30 cents from Houston Cellular, $3,000 from the state of Indiana, $572 from Dow Jones, maybe there's a bunch of Wall Street Journals and some money from McGraw Hill as well. So you know, collect the money, guys. Right?
CAFFERTY: Get the money. It's all about the benjamins.
SERWER: All about the money, the doughnuts, you know.
CAFFERTY: There you go. Thanks, Andy.
SERWER: You're welcome.
CAFFERTY: On a more serious note, as holiday season arrives a lot of servicemen and women are learning they won't be coming home from Iraq as soon as they had thought. I recently sat down with the Pender family, who will be spending Christmas apart. Specialist Jason Pender told me about his job in Mosul and how he gets through this tough time of the year.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON PENDER, SPECIALIST: I'm an intel analyst. We actually work in a room with no windows, but we decorated it real nice for Christmas. We probably will spend the day working, though. There's no real breaks here.
CAFFERTY: I got your wife and one of your children and your dad on a different satellite coming out of Cincinnati. Katie Pender is with us. How do you handle three kids with him that far away? I mean, that's yeoman's work if there are two parents at home.
KATIE PENDER, WIFE OF SPEC. JASON PENDER: It has been a great blessing to have my family and his dad and stepmom around. They have been a tremendous help.
CAFFERTY: You've got a 5-year-old, Michaela (ph) I think is her name. She's old enough to understand a little bit about what's going on. How do you handle the fact that her dad's away at war?
K. PENDER: Well, I think it helps that we are able to talk as often as we are. She knows that daddy's in Iraq. We talk about, you know, that he's there. We pray for him every night, so that she, you know, has an opportunity to talk about him and, you know, pray that he's going to be okay and going to be safe. And I keep pictures of him around so that she and Alex (ph) and Shawn (ph), when he gets a little bit bigger, can see him every day so that they don't forget what he looks like.
CAFFERTY: Gary, let me ask you, you spent time in Vietnam. What goes through your mind when you see the pictures coming out of Iraq and the fact that you've got a son over there in that theater?
GARY PENDER, FATHER OF SPEC. JASON PENDER: Great concern, actually. Having lived through the Vietnam War, having actually lost a brother in Vietnam, there's a lot of concern, a lot of prayers for both Jason and his comrades in arms. You know, we still feel it's the right mission at this point in time, but it's different when you have a son that's right in the heart of it.
K. PENDER: How you doing, honey?
J. PENDER: I'm doing great. How are you guys?
K. PENDER: Oh, we're doing okay. We're hanging in there. Well, you look good!
G. PENDER: Yes, you do. You do look good.
K. PENDER: You look really good.
J. PENDER: Thank you.
CAFFERTY: Jason, hang on one sec, you know what, we're going to bring the kids in.
K. PENDER: You wish Daddy a merry Christmas?
MICHAELA PENDER, DAUGHTER OF SPEC. JASON PENDER: Yes.
K. PENDER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
G. PENDER: Say merry Christmas, Daddy.
K. PENDER: Can you say merry Christmas?
M. PENDER: Merry Christmas, Daddy. G. PENDER: You hear her, Jason?
J. PENDER: Merry Christmas, Michaela.
M. PENDER: Daddy, can you come home for Christmas? Can you?
J. PENDER: I don't think so, darling. I'm here helping other people. OK?
K. PENDER: He's helping out everybody else right now. He'll come home.
G. PENDER: But he loves you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CAFFERTY: You got kids? Go find them and hug them. A little Christmas greeting from the soldiers overseas on AMERICAN MORNING.
S. O'BRIEN: That was nice. Thanks, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Sure.
S. O'BRIEN: In just a moment, today's top stories, including the tape said to be from Osama bin Laden. We'll be looking at what's on it, including references to some specific events and what intelligence experts are now looking for. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired December 16, 2004 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And that is another beautiful shot of Central Park. It's pretty good. Welcome back, everybody. Half past the hour on this Thursday morning. Bill Hemmer is off this morning. Miles O'Brien, though, filling in. Thank you very much.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: It's a beautiful morning in New York, very cold.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes, but hey, it's winter as Chad would say.
M. O'BRIEN: That's it, it gets cold in the winter in New York. This is not breaking news.
All right, good morning. Some other stories to tell you about this half hour. We're going to look at what could mean the difference between life and death in the event of an anthrax attack. Dr. Sanjay Gupta says health officials have been studying what happened three years ago, and we'll find out what they learned.
S. O'BRIEN: Also this morning, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani has been quoted as saying his former police commissioner Bernard Kerik has explaining to do after his nomination to the Homeland Security Department collapsed in scandal. In just a few moments we'll talk to Kerik's attorney and see if we can get that explanation.
M. O'BRIEN: And let's the latest on that tape supposedly from Osama bin Laden. Kelly Wallace here with that.
Hey, Kelly.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Miles. That's exactly where we begin.
Now in the news, this breaking story we've been telling you about all morning, a new audio tape surfacing, believed to be from Osama bin Laden. On that tape, the December 6th attack on an American consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia is referenced. The message appeared on Arabic Web sites today. More on this story throughout the morning here on AMERICAN MORNING.
Now to news about Britain's highest court. It has ruled against holding terror suspects indefinitely without trial. Today's ruling coming in the case of nine men suspected of terror-related activities. They've been held in a British prison for three years, since soon after the September 11th attacks. No word yet on when or if the men would be released.
And in sports news, track star Marion Jones taking her accuser in the sports steroid scandal to court. Jones filing a $25 million lawsuit against Victor Conte, fonder of BALCO. That's the company at the center of the sports doping controversy. Jones says Conte defamed her by claiming he gave her steroids before the Olympics four years ago. Conte calling the suit a, quote, "P.R. stunt." That's a quick check of the hour's top stories. Now to Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: He was the nominee to head homeland security, then- former New York police chief Bernard Kerik abruptly withdrew his name, citing an immigration problem with a nanny he hired, but speculation has been steadily growing about other possible skeletons in the closet. Here to join us this morning, Kerik's attorney, Joseph Tacopina.
Nice to see you. Thanks for being with us.
Lots of questions to talk to. Certainly in the time since the name was announced as the president's nominee, new revelations, rather, came out. Is Bernard Kerik facing any charges for illegal improprieties at this point?
JOSEPH TACOPINA, KERIK'S ATTORNEY: Not really so much new revelations, by the way. They're old revelations rehashed with extended facts on some occasions. Look, in the last week, there has been a lot of unfortunate things that have happened for Bernard Kerik, and for the city, quite frankly. But there've been a lot of things reported, some of which are accurate, some have not been accurate and others which have been greatly exaggerated.
S. O'BRIEN: What's inaccurate and greatly exaggerated? Where is the media getting it wrong?
TACOPINA: Well, for instance, let's just take yesterday's story about his Riverdale apartment when he was the department of corrections commissioner. There was a story leaking Bernie Kerik, a law enforcement guy, who dedicated his life to this country and this city, accused of having some organized crime links. I mean, that's what's so dangerous and ambiguous about these stories. The two people who applied for permits to do construction on that unit were hired by the building before Bernie Kerik ever bought that unit. Bernie Kerik never met those two guys, who allegedly had links to organized crime, never spoke to those two guys, never hired those two guys, never paid them a dollar, and more importantly, they never did a stitch of work on his place. They were hired by the building, and yet they make a time to him, like he has some connection to these guys, and that's so -- it's unfair.
S. O'BRIEN: How about questions about, for example, the nanny issue, which is exactly what Bernard Kerik said ins they statement when he said he was going to withdraw his name? He said in completing the documents, it was brought to his attention that the woman's immigration status was an issue, and also that the tax filing status of her employment was also an issue. What about that? TACOPINA: And that was a mistake. He made and error, he fessed up to it. He apologized for both the error and the embarrassment it caused the president, the mayor, the distraction it caused the country in getting a homeland security chief in place.
S. O'BRIEN: So she no longer works for the family?
TACOPINA: No, and she hadn't really quite some time before the nomination process, or at least the nomination process had began. That's the reason, and the only reason he stepped down. These other things were things that were known, and things that were out there and disclosed.
S. O'BRIEN: There are people who might say, he is the chief of police. He's got to know he's got to file taxes, I mean, come on. I think there's some other people who might be able to get away with saying, you know, I had no idea, but for the chief of police?
TACOPINA: Look, without getting into all the details, that has been rectified, it's being rectified. You know, he's using accounts. He was using accounts.
I will tell you this, it came to Bernie Kerik's attention. He's sort of a busy guy now. I will tell you that. He did not know of the until Wednesday night there was a tax issue with the nanny. He just didn't know. It was not really something he was personally handling. When he found that out, he did a further investigation, he himself, and he uncovered the fact that she had real immigration issues and maybe some of the information he had was not accurate, and he immediately notified the White House.
S. O'BRIEN: There was a story about, and you know this, the ground zero apartment, which was supposed to be used for workers from ground zero. And you're getting mad...
TACOPINA: Soledad, it's -- I understand.
S. O'BRIEN: But let me just explain for people who don't it. The ground zero apartment was supposed to be used for workers who were taking a break from the cleanup and recovery of ground zero. There were allegations that Bernard Kerik used that for trysts with not one mistress, but two. Andy validity to that?
TACOPINA: Let me just say this, first of all, I am not going to get into Bernard Kerik's personal affairs. And that no comment doesn't mean that I accept the stories. I think like everything else, you have to sort of blend those three different things truth, exaggerations and false.
But let me just say this, Bernie, when he's ready, will discuss that. As far as any apartment, you know, the stories aren't even really saying that. What they're saying, is that there was an apartment in that building used for rescue workers, and after the rescue-and-recovery efforts were done and completed, that Bernie Kerik rented an apartment in that same building. Now I got to tell you, one, I don't know if that's true, and, again, I'm not getting into his personal details, whether he rented an apartment or not. More importantly, so what? So what if he paid rent for an apartment to better our city after the rescue-and-recovery effort was complete? Again, that's something where people are trying to connect dots and make something look sinister when it's not.
S. O'BRIEN: Why do you think people are doing that?
(CROSSTALK)
S. O'BRIEN: No bad will on my part. I'm curious why the stories are coming out.
TACOPINA: And you know, so am I, because a lot of these stories are six, seven and eight years old. And why now? Why all of a sudden are they piling on?
S. O'BRIEN: Has he angered a lot of people in his day?
TACOPINA: Well, let me say this, Bernie Kerik has some enemies, clearly. He ruled with pretty tough iron fist when he was chief of corrections, and chief of police. He made some enemies with some union members, a lot of who are now coming to the fore, going on TV interviews, saying, 12 years ago, Bernie Kerik didn't promote me, and doing all of these things. It's a core group of guys from a particularly...
S. O'BRIEN: Yes, but the allegations we're talking about are not, Bernie Kerik didn't promote me; these are much different allegations.
TACOPINA: They're leaking stories that are just factually inaccurate. I mean, everyone who said something about Bernie Kerik in a negative light, recording an apartment, a company, a gift, are people who have a massive grudge against Bernie Kerik. You have to look at the sources, and that's every single one of these had issues with Bernie.
S. O'BRIEN: We don't have a ton of time, but how's he doing? I mean, it's got to be tough.
TACOPINA: He's getting to the point where he's going through swings. I mean, he was distraught initially, that Friday, Saturday, Sunday, distraught, primarily because of what he believed was an embarrassing situation he caused on a lot of people, and also because he really wanted to serve as secretary of homeland security. I think he would have made a great difference, and he was disappointed he missed that opportunity.
Now he's starting to get a little angry, and he's going to start kicking back and answering a little bit. He'll be back. He's a strong guy. Let's not forget the lifetime -- three four lifetimes worth of contributions this guy made.
S. O'BRIEN: Joseph Tacopina, nice to see you. Thanks for coming to talk to us -- Miles. M. O'BRIEN: Los Angeles authorities this week said they are concerned a shoulder-launched missile could be used against civilian aircraft or airliners. That's the focus of our CNN Security Watch this morning. Authorities are ramping up security at LAX.
Randy Parsons, a special agent in charge for counterterrorism in the FBI's L.A. field office, joins us live now from Covina, California.
Good to have you with us, Mr. Parsons.
RANDY PARSONS, L.A. FBI AGENT FOR COUNTERTERRORISM, LOS ANGELES: Good morning, Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: What's new in this threat? We've heard the threat of shoulder-launched missiles for quite some time now. There was an airplane struck in Baghdad a year ago, a DHL freighter a year ago, and then there was an attempt to shoot one down, an Israeli airline in Kenya. What's new?
PARSONS: Not a lot new, Miles. This has been considered a substantial threat for quite some time. Throughout the world there've been about 29 attacks over the last 20 or 30 years, but what maintains this is a substantial threat or several factors about these weapons.
They're easily accessible or readily accessible on the black market. Some of the older versions are relatively affordable on the black market. They can -- an average tube is five feet long. Can be broken down into three different sections that could fit into a suitcase. It doesn't take a lot of training or skill to fire one of these weapons.
M. O'BRIEN: We should point out that that video we just showed has nothing to do with what we're talking about. I want to be clear that this is a very different looking thing than an AK-47, which we saw in that video just there.
Give us a sense of how difficult it is to guard against this sort of thing? We're talking about airliners 15,000 feet and below, so we're talking about approach -- a fairly long period of the approach, as well as after departure. Big swaths of turf need to be patrolled. How can you guard against it?
PARSONS: Well, you're right, and particularly at an airport like LAX, the surrounding terrain is mostly flat. The other side of the runway is water. The kinds of things that can be done are being done in terms of security measures. Increased patrol. That's land-based patrol, water and air and educational process for the uniformed officers to recognize these weapons and how they might come across them. The educational process also involves educating the public -- what you're doing right here, Miles, gets the word out.
I know in the community surrounding LAX, community members and officials and security officials have been contacted and provided training about these weapons. It's clear we can't protect every target. So it's absolutely critical that we have the eyes and the ears of the public involved, and local law enforcement.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. And I'm going to ask you one more question. Hopefully we can get up a picture of an actual surface-to- air missile so people can know what to look out for. Looks a little more like a bazooka than a gun. It's shoulder mounted. One of the things that has been talked about frequently is putting on airliners expensive systems that are designed to defend against this. It's routine sort of equipment on military type of aircraft.
There you go. That's the kind of thing we're talking about here. It would be difficult to be inconspicuous with that kind of thing. Nevertheless, if you were in a boat or on top of a building, you could probably hide. Nevertheless, do you think it's time that the airlines, under tremendous financial duress, spend $1 million per airliner to put in some equipment to stop this?
PARSONS: What I can say, Miles, is that there are systems that are in place now, better systems are being developed. Countermeasures are a big part of this, because, as I said earlier, what can be done to prevent this kind of attack -- and that's certainly the kind of thing that can help is developing and implementing a system like that.
M. O'BRIEN: Randy Parsons, who's with the L.A. Field Office, special agent in charge of counterterrorism out there, thanks for your time this morning.
PARSONS: Thank you, Miles. My pleasure.
M. O'BRIEN: Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, our holiday homefront. A soldier serving in Iraq gets a video visit with his family back home.
M. O'BRIEN: An anthrax terror attack killed five people in 2001. You remember that? Now there are recommendations on how to save lives if there's another similar attack.
S. O'BRIEN: And more trouble at Krispy Kreme. Andy Serwer's going to tell us if we'll be eating doughnuts in the future or just the holes. Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
M. O'BRIEN: All right, "Paging Dr. Gupta" time. What's the best way to protect the public in the event of a future anthrax attack? Sanjay reports on a new study that suggests a rapid response would save lives.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An anthrax-laden letter sent to an office building in Washington, D.C. went through this post office in October of 2001. Leroy Richmond was working there at the time and he was one of four from the post office to get sick. LEROY RICHMOND, ANTHRAX SURVIVOR: My breathing became shallow. There was constriction in my chest. I had this pounding headache. And to be honest with you, I knew I was sick.
GUPTA: He survived. Two of his colleagues did not. He says, and doctors at the local hospital confirm, that most of the postal workers weren't given antibiotics until at least ten days after they were exposed. At the time, nobody realized that anthrax spores could escape an envelope without being opened.
But across town at the Senate office that received the letter, which was opened, staffers were given antibiotics within three days. No one there got sick. And that supports what researchers at the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health found in their study, published in the journal "Nature."
RON BROOKMEYER, JOHNS HOPKINS SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Our research shows that if we could get antibiotics to people within six days of exposure to the anthrax, we could prevent seventy percent of cases.
GUPTA: But catching it within six days can be problematic.
DR. JAMES CAMPBELL, UNIV. OF MD. SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: It is true that caught early, we think antibiotics would work. But most cases when people become ill with anthrax -- inhalational anthrax, you don't recognize it as anthrax right away.
GUPTA: Brookmeyer agrees that the current public health system for early detection may not be sufficient.
BROOKMEYER: I think we can do better. I think there are a lot of improvements that could be made to public health preparedness in terms of detecting emerging outbreaks.
GUPTA: But that, of course, takes more money. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
M. O'BRIEN: And the Johns Hopkins study says delaying anthrax treatment ten days or more would reduce the prevention figure to less than fifty percent -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, Krispy Kreme may have the wrong financial recipe. Andy Serwer checks up on the doughnut empire's future, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.
CAFFERTY: Another round of negative news for Krispy Kreme, the doughnut folks. And Enron, maybe it'll get some much needed cash. With those stories and a look at some economic data, here's Andy Serwer, "Minding Your Business." Good morning. You have to put the food down now and work.
SERWER: You caught me. Yes, doughnut news. Let's check out what the action was yesterday on Wall Street. Dow was up a bit. We continue that rally. So was the Nasdaq, so was the S&P merger activity, hot and heavy. This morning jobless claims were down sharply, which is good news, but housing starts also down, which is bad news. Also you have the bin Laden tape, so probably a lot of volatility at the open this morning.
From the department of world of troubled companies segment, we're going to talk about a couple. And first of all, Krispy Kreme doughnuts, They just have been really not being -- getting up early in the morning and making the doughnuts very well lately. Second time in five days, Jack, they've had to delay their filing, their quarterly filing to the Securities Exchange Commission. Security Exchange Commission does not like that. Wall Street doesn't like that at all.
That is bad news. They don't have their act together. And there we go. Sliding down the slope. Down 70 percent this year. And I know all about that because I wrote a favorable story about Krispy Kreme before that decline, so it -- people constantly remind me of that, and I don't know why. The prescient business journalist that I am.
And very quickly, Enron, of course, is in a world of hurt here. And they're actually - it's interesting -- they're actually owed about $400,000. Unclaimed property. They're owed $143,000 by, 30 cents from Houston Cellular, $3,000 from the state of Indiana, $572 from Dow Jones, maybe there's a bunch of Wall Street Journals and some money from McGraw Hill as well. So you know, collect the money, guys. Right?
CAFFERTY: Get the money. It's all about the benjamins.
SERWER: All about the money, the doughnuts, you know.
CAFFERTY: There you go. Thanks, Andy.
SERWER: You're welcome.
CAFFERTY: On a more serious note, as holiday season arrives a lot of servicemen and women are learning they won't be coming home from Iraq as soon as they had thought. I recently sat down with the Pender family, who will be spending Christmas apart. Specialist Jason Pender told me about his job in Mosul and how he gets through this tough time of the year.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON PENDER, SPECIALIST: I'm an intel analyst. We actually work in a room with no windows, but we decorated it real nice for Christmas. We probably will spend the day working, though. There's no real breaks here.
CAFFERTY: I got your wife and one of your children and your dad on a different satellite coming out of Cincinnati. Katie Pender is with us. How do you handle three kids with him that far away? I mean, that's yeoman's work if there are two parents at home.
KATIE PENDER, WIFE OF SPEC. JASON PENDER: It has been a great blessing to have my family and his dad and stepmom around. They have been a tremendous help.
CAFFERTY: You've got a 5-year-old, Michaela (ph) I think is her name. She's old enough to understand a little bit about what's going on. How do you handle the fact that her dad's away at war?
K. PENDER: Well, I think it helps that we are able to talk as often as we are. She knows that daddy's in Iraq. We talk about, you know, that he's there. We pray for him every night, so that she, you know, has an opportunity to talk about him and, you know, pray that he's going to be okay and going to be safe. And I keep pictures of him around so that she and Alex (ph) and Shawn (ph), when he gets a little bit bigger, can see him every day so that they don't forget what he looks like.
CAFFERTY: Gary, let me ask you, you spent time in Vietnam. What goes through your mind when you see the pictures coming out of Iraq and the fact that you've got a son over there in that theater?
GARY PENDER, FATHER OF SPEC. JASON PENDER: Great concern, actually. Having lived through the Vietnam War, having actually lost a brother in Vietnam, there's a lot of concern, a lot of prayers for both Jason and his comrades in arms. You know, we still feel it's the right mission at this point in time, but it's different when you have a son that's right in the heart of it.
K. PENDER: How you doing, honey?
J. PENDER: I'm doing great. How are you guys?
K. PENDER: Oh, we're doing okay. We're hanging in there. Well, you look good!
G. PENDER: Yes, you do. You do look good.
K. PENDER: You look really good.
J. PENDER: Thank you.
CAFFERTY: Jason, hang on one sec, you know what, we're going to bring the kids in.
K. PENDER: You wish Daddy a merry Christmas?
MICHAELA PENDER, DAUGHTER OF SPEC. JASON PENDER: Yes.
K. PENDER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
G. PENDER: Say merry Christmas, Daddy.
K. PENDER: Can you say merry Christmas?
M. PENDER: Merry Christmas, Daddy. G. PENDER: You hear her, Jason?
J. PENDER: Merry Christmas, Michaela.
M. PENDER: Daddy, can you come home for Christmas? Can you?
J. PENDER: I don't think so, darling. I'm here helping other people. OK?
K. PENDER: He's helping out everybody else right now. He'll come home.
G. PENDER: But he loves you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CAFFERTY: You got kids? Go find them and hug them. A little Christmas greeting from the soldiers overseas on AMERICAN MORNING.
S. O'BRIEN: That was nice. Thanks, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Sure.
S. O'BRIEN: In just a moment, today's top stories, including the tape said to be from Osama bin Laden. We'll be looking at what's on it, including references to some specific events and what intelligence experts are now looking for. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
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