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American Morning
Powell Tours Region Devastated by Tsunami; Survivor's Story; Gonzales Confirmation Hearing
Aired January 05, 2005 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: You can barely see through the morning air here in New York City today. The rain is coming down. It could get worse later tonight and maybe tomorrow. We'll get you posted in a moment with Chad Myers.
It's 8:30 here in New York. And good morning to you. Soledad continues reporting in Thailand. Back to her in a moment.
Also, we'll talk to a man out of Alabama. He is home now after a vacation in Thailand he will never forget. Swept away by the tsunami. Managed to save himself and a little boy along the way. We'll talk to him about what happened at that moment.
Also, Sanjay is coming up, too, talking about the intense emotional strain for children who survived this disaster. How will they now live with the memories? A look at how they're being helped through the excruciating time in their lives. Sanjay is up in a couple of minutes as well.
Heidi Collins is up now. And good morning to you.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you.
And in the news now this morning, we begin in the Middle East, where there's word that at least a dozen Israeli soldiers have been wounded in a rocket attack near the Gaza border. The attack comes just days before Palestinians take to the polls to elect a replacement for Yasser Arafat.
The NAACP is calling for an federal investigation into the death of a black student after a New Year's Eve scuffle in New Orleans. Amateur video shows Lavonne Jones (ph) pinned down by bouncers. That's him in the spot shadow there. Police say the fight broke out after one of Jones' friends was denied entry into a bar. City officials say they will conduct a thorough investigation.
A woman accusing William Kennedy Smith of sexual assault says she plans to file new charges against him. A judge yesterday threw out the case stemming for a sexual encounter between Smith and his former personal assistant back in 1999. Smith, who is a nephew of Senator Edward Kennedy, was cleared of sexual assault charges in another case in 1991.
In California, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger is expected to tell Democrats to play ball during his second State of the State speech tonight. Schwarzenegger is likely to announce that he plans to call special legislative sessions to speed up action on issues he supports. If legislators don't cooperate, the Republican governor may threaten to hold special elections in the fall.
So is that play ball, girly man, or just play ball?
HEMMER: I'm going to wait until he says it again. Thank you, Heidi.
Secretary of State Colin Powell touring the region devastated by the tsunamis -- tsunami, rather, saying that never in his experience, even as a soldier in wartime, has he seen anything like this.
Here's John King now reporting in Banda Aceh in Indonesia.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): From military helicopters, a bird's-eye view of the devastation. The general-turned diplomat stunned by what he had just seen.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: I've been in a war, and I've been through a number of hurricanes, tornadoes and other relief operations, but I have never seen anything like this.
KING: On the aerial survey, Secretary Powell and the delegation saw water and mud, where 10 days ago stood roads and homes, villages. Crumbled foundations, many of the families washed away with the homes.
On the ground, an update of the humanitarian crisis here, and a promise the United States military would do more to help.
POWELL: We will be increasing the number of helicopters that will be available to support T&I (ph) and Indonesian authorities, and we will respond to requests we get from the Indonesian authorities.
KING: This visit is a show of U.S. goodwill and a commitment to Indonesia and other countries hardest hit by the tsunami. But as he travels, an increasingly frustrated Powell is urging his own department to move quickly to get a more accurate count of just how many Americans were killed and how many are truly still missing.
POWELL: We expect that there will be some additional American casualties. It's up to 16 now. But I'm not of the view that the numbers will be anything like what some of our fellow nations have suffered over the last week.
KING (on camera): Secretary Powell and his delegation were on the ground here less than two hours, rushing in and out so that their visit would not complicate or delay the urgent relief effort. In fact, while the delegation took its helicopter tour and met with relief workers here on the ground, Secretary Powell's plane circle the island overhead so as not to clog this critical runway.
John King, CNN, Banda Aceh, Indonesia.
(END VIDEOTAPE) HEMMER: John, thanks for that.
The difference between life and death as the tsunami hit was often a matter of pure chance, and oftentimes in a matter of only seconds when the water came colliding onshore. Glenn Watson saw that for himself 10 days ago on vacation in Thailand. He's back home now in Huntsville, Alabama.
Glenn, good morning to you. And welcome here to AMERICAN MORNING.
GLENN WATSON, SURVIVED TSUNAMI: Good morning.
HEMMER: And you have one heck of a story to tell. What was the first sign of danger you saw, Glenn?
WATSON: Well, I didn't see anything. I heard the people yelling and carrying on out in the mezzanine. And so I went outside and I said, 'What's wrong? What's going on?' And they said, "Tidal wave, tidal wave." And what do you do when somebody says "tidal wave?" I mean, I've never experienced anything like that.
And all of a sudden I saw the wall of water coming in. And I didn't have any second guesses about what I was going to do, get away and head in a different direction. I ran as fast as I could (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
HEMMER: So you got to safe land, right? You got to safe land, and you did it by foot, correct? You ran away from the water?
WATSON: Yes. Yes, I ran away, and I was able to grab a hold of something that didn't break away.
HEMMER: Also with the...
WATSON: Yes, I...
HEMMER: I apologize. There's a bit of a delay in the satellite here. I want to get a little more specific about a boy that came into your view, and you grabbed him. Relay that experience to me, if you could, Glenn.
WATSON: OK. I had reached the stairwell, and I had a good grip on it. And I was trying to get myself up, but the water was sashaying me all over. Well, I tried to get in between, and I grabbed the other stairwell, the railing on the other side, and was holding on, trying to pull up. And I looked down, and I saw a woman and her child just bobbing down through the water, coming my way.
I reached out and I was able to grab the boy and pull him in close enough to where we weren't going in different directions with the water. And I was able to hold onto him, but I couldn't get us out of the water. I didn't have the strength to do that.
And we were both underwater for maybe eight, nine seconds, a long it seemed like. When you're not breathing it's a long time. And then I would get a chance to breathe, and I would hold him up.
And then two Thai guys came down, and they were going to take me. But I said, 'no, no, no, no,' because I didn't think they could hold me. That water was gripping me to pieces. And I said, 'Get the boy.' And they got the boy, and that gave me my chance to hold on with both hands. And that gave me a chance, I knew I wasn't going to get swept away.
HEMMER: So you have the boy. Did you see his mother?
WATSON: Yes, just for a second. And I saw her face, and that's something I see. When I see the tsunami on TV, I can see her face. I'll never live with that. I mean, I'll have a tough time with that. That's a -- but I think she knew that I had her son. And I think maybe -- and she wasn't in fear. She was in almost like a -- just didn't have any expression on her face. But she seemed -- I think she knew I had her kid. I hope she did anyway.
HEMMER: So you believe she's lost?
WATSON: Oh, yes, yes. If you saw that water, if you could see the turmoil, the way that water was going, there was no way that a person can -- you know, most of the people that we picked up the next day were women and children. The men had the physical strength, I think, in some cases to grab onto something and hold on. The women would be pulled away from it. And then after while, when you're not getting enough oxygen, you're going to go down. There were a lot of women and children, an awful lot of Europeans among the Thais.
HEMMER: Two final questions here. Do you know what's happened to the boy, Glenn?
WATSON: I have no idea. From the time that the water started to go away, everything was chaotic. Everybody was trying to help. Everybody was doing something, mainly taking and getting the bodies out of the roadway and out of the ditches and trying to wrap them in sheets. But it was just a madhouse.
And there were trucks and pickup trucks taking people to the hospital, and there was just -- the hospital, I understand, I wasn't at the hospital, the hospital was a madhouse. I have a good friend of mine who's an English teacher from England, her and her husband are retired, in Kamali (ph) Bay in Phuket, Thailand, and her leg was badly damaged. She said the hospital was totally chaotic.
HEMMER: So, Glenn, if I could...
WATSON: If I asked her...
HEMMER: I'm sorry, I'm running short on time here. The boy's alive. I just want to make that clear to our viewers at home.
WATSON: Right.
HEMMER: Now that you're back in Huntsville, Alabama, how does this impact your life? What do you think about on a day-to-day basis? Has it changed you in any substantial way at this point?
WATSON: Well, I naturally appreciate the fact that I'm alive. I really haven't had time to sit back and reflect, you know, because of you guys, you know. And all I guess I can think about is that woman's face. That was the last thing I saw before I was pulled to safety.
HEMMER: Well, we guys are going to let you go, Glenn. Thanks for sharing with us.
WATSON: OK, well...
HEMMER: Good luck to you, OK?
WATSON: Thank you. Have a great day and happy New Year.
HEMMER: Thank you very much, sir, and to you as well.
We have a full line of journalists on the front lines in Southeast Asia, watching developments. Later tonight at 7:00 Eastern, they'll bring you all of the latest stories and news as they gather it throughout the day here. "Turning the Tide" later tonight at 7:00 Eastern. Another reminder of tomorrow night at 10:00 in prime time, another primetime special on the children the of the tsunami of this disaster.
Now to politics this morning. Alberto Gonzales' Senate confirmation hearing starts tomorrow, and some retired military leaders have serious reservations about his nomination as attorney general.
From both sides now. In D.C., Democratic strategist Julian Epstein is here.
Julian, good morning to you.
JULIAN EPSTEIN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: And happy Near Year.
EPSTEIN: Same to you.
HEMMER: Cliff May is here, too. Former RNC communications director now with the Foundation for Defense of Democracy.
Good morning, Cliff.
CLIFF MAY, FMR. RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Good morning, Bill. Good morning to you.
HEMMER: Easy question, Cliff. Are you an attorney?
MAY: I am not.
HEMMER: You're not. OK. I'm going to start with Julian then on this whole matter. Legally, what does Gonzales have to explain if military officials have concerns about his interpretation of torture from two years ago?
EPSTEIN: Well, they're really raising two general sets of concerns. One is Mr. Gonzales' involvement in supervising and approving memos which basically condoned the use of torture and which condoned the administration's position, which is that there shouldn't be judicial supervision over indefinite detentions.
Both of these positions seem to be well outside the mainstream and contrary to maybe 50 years of our Western legal experience and what we've expected as basic norms.
So I think that, combined with other questions about Mr. Gonzales, he was viewed by many on the 9/11 Commission as being somewhat obstructionist when they wanted to get information about the administration's pre-9/11 intelligence failures. His inability or lack of skill, really, in vetting the nomination of Bernard Kerik to the director of Homeland Security has raised a lot of questions in people's minds about whether this guy is, (1), outside the legal mainstream, and, (2), whether he's really the best guy for the job or more of more of a product of (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
HEMMER: Let's try and get Cliff to answer some of this. Does this stand in his way, Cliff?
MAY: Well, there's obviously opposition to him. And I'm afraid a lot of the opposition is very, very partisan, and I think it's regrettable. This is the first time ever a Hispanic has been proposed for attorney general. He has been the president's lawyer. The president knows him well. That's what it means. He's been an attorney in the White House. He comes from a poor Mexican-American family.
I think it's really unfortunate that they're going to -- that this attitude is being taken to him, and these kind of things are being said about him.
Look, I think we should have a debate about how we treat al Qaeda and other terrorists that we capture. Do we give them prison-of-war privileges, which means taxpayers pay them money every month? Do they get cooking utensils and musical instruments? Or do we treat them to a different standard?
What Gonzales was asked to do was to look at the legal parameters and give his best advice on what the law allows and the law doesn't allow. And this is being twisted in a very terrible way, and I think it's really wrong.
EPSTEIN: This is incorrect. Prisoner of war status goes to what are considered armed combatants. This is provided for under the Geneva protocols. I've, in fact, published on this, and I've said that I don't think terrorists get the entitlements of armed combatants and that they don't get that kind of protection. So we agree on that.
What we're talk about here is something totally different. What we're talking about here is Mr. Gonzales improving legal positions of the administration that contravene 50 years of experience, international law and domestic law, which governs some basic principles.
One is that you don't commit torture. You don't engage in torture against armed combatants. Or even if they are war criminals, you still don't engage in torture. And that there are some judicial checks about when it comes to indefinite detentions. These are positions that are widely agreed upon inside the legal community, positions which Mr. Gonzales seems to have a different point of view.
HEMMER: All right, I understand your point, Cliff.
MAY: You know what?
HEMMER: Cliff, go ahead and respond to that.
MAY: When he is up for his confirmation hearings, you can ask him about that. But Gonzales is no more in favor of torture than you are or I am.
The question is: What constitutes torture? If you put me in a room alone with Michael Moore for 24 hours, I might think it's torture, but somebody else might not.
The question is: What can you do within interrogation? Again, prisoner-of-war status means you ask only name, rank and serial number. I think can you do more than that when you've got a terrorist who has important information. Not torture, but what is called stress and duress. This is an important issue. It shouldn't be reduced to this kind of partisanship. Ask the guy what he thinks. By the way, he'll be attorney general. He'll obey the laws of the land.
HEMMER: All right.
MAY: Congress can make any laws it wants.
HEMMER: The hearing will start tomorrow. We'll follow it then. Thanks, Cliff. Thanks, Julian.
MAY: Thank you.
EPSTEIN: Thank you, Bill.
HEMMER: We'll talk to you soon, gentlemen. Thanks -- Heidi.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: Why would a charity urge people to stop sending money? The answer is causing a bit of an outrage. Andy is "Minding Your Business." He has an answer on that in a moment.
COLLINS: Plus, the smallest survivors of the tsunami disaster. How are relief workers addressing children's emotional needs now? We'll talk with Dr. Sanjay Gupta about that ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: The U.N. says one and a half million children have been injured or lost someone in the tsunami disaster. The cornerstone of the relief effort is now providing emotional aid to children.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta is covering that story in Beruwala, Sri Lanka. He's joining us now live from there.
Dr. Sanjay -- hello.
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Heidi. How are you doing?
Yes, we've been focusing on all of the various traumas, both physical and psychological, focusing on children over the last couple of days. I've sort of embedded myself with one of the big charitable organizations traveling around the country to see what they're doing.
We've been hearing so much about the potential epidemics. I've got to tell you now, having traveled around the country, I haven't seen epidemics per se, but we're starting to see now over a week out concerns about psychological trauma.
What is the trauma of having survived a tsunami or having lost one or both of your parents? And these are the sorts of things we're starting to see.
I should point out, there's not really a psychological system infrastructure really in place here in Sri Lanka. So a lot of what we're seeing are therapies that are used in war zones and refugee camps around the world. Therapies like art therapy, for example, getting children to actually draw what it was that they saw, what it was that terrified them. And then to quickly follow that up with a more happy drawing.
Also music therapy, getting children to sing as well, getting to sing more songs about motivation, positive things, seems to help as well. Not a lot of this rooted in science, but a lot of the charitable organizations starting this in displacement camps around the country -- Heidi.
COLLINS: I just can't get past their sweet little faces when you see them smiling there on the screen, Sanjay. It's difficult, too, knowing that there are still huge health concerns. Are you seeing any signs of epidemics yet, Sanjay?
GUPTA: You know, a couple of things to keep in mind. First of all, the answer is no. We haven't seen anything I would call an epidemic as of now.
A couple things, though. First of all, it is early still. We're just past a week out. Typically, if an epidemic is going to occur, the type of epidemic such as cholera or dysentery, malaria, hepatitis, those are the ones we worry about the most. It might be several days out still before we'd see those.
The second thing is there's not a lot of laboratories to be able to diagnose exactly what some of the folks have in these displacement camps. So, in fact, they may have illness, but not diagnosed with cholera or dysentery yet. The news is good so far, though, Heidi. Not seeing any of these epidemics so far.
COLLINS: Oh, that is excellent, Sanjay. Tell us a little bit more, though, if you could, about what you're seeing as you travel around Sri Lanka to some of the hardest-hit areas.
GUPTA: Well, you know, it's been really interesting for me, Heidi, and I think for everybody. We've traveled sort of all over the southern part of this country, starting in Colombo, making our way around the southern tip of the country and coming back north along the west coast -- I'm sorry -- the east coast there. The destruction gets worse as you get further south, as you get closer to where the tsunami hit.
You've seen all of the images of just how terrible the destruction can be, what that force of water did, even up to a couple of kilometers inland.
What struck me, though, as well, Heidi, is this not a country that I have visited before, but I have visited this part of the world. It is a beautiful part of the world. I don't know if you can see some of the image there. But some of the things that we've seen, we just stopped the car and stared at the beauty of this country, looking at the sunsets, looking at that ocean, looking at the jungle. There are so many beautiful things about this country. It is going to take an impossibly long time to rebuild. But looking at some of the images I hope you just saw, you an see that everyone would think that it's worth it.
COLLINS: Yes, we did see those images. Still, I'm sure, they don't do the country and that area justice, that's for sure. Well, Sanjay, thanks so much for that.
We want to let everybody to know, tomorrow night, something you don't want to miss here on CNN, a primetime special called "Saving the Children" with Anderson Cooper and Christiane Amanpour. Soledad also contributing to this special, focusing on the children affected by the tsunamis. Once again, that's coming your way, 10:00 p.m. Eastern on Thursday.
HEMMER: One charity is telling people to stop sending money. Andy explains that after the break. Back with Jack, too, right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All right. Welcome back, everybody. Back to Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Word now that one relief group has collected so much in donations for relief for the tsunami victims that they're telling people, don't send any more money.
Andy Serwer is here with "Minding Your Business."
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Did you know it was a French group?
CAFFERTY: I didn't.
SERWER: Well, you're going to like this story, Jack.
Let's talk about the markets, first of all. Two days of trading on Wall Street this year, and both days down. Not a good trend. The Dow down 98 points, Nasdaq down over 2 percent. Higher oil prices and fear of higher interest rates to come, spooking stocks. It does not look like the bleeding will stop this morning, at least at the open, because futures continue to fall. Not good news there.
Medecins Sans Frontieres. He loves it when I talk French to him like that. That's Doctors Without Borders, a French relief group, has said that it has enough money. It says, don't send any more money. The French group has got $40 million. The German group got $27 million. On their Web site it says, enough.
This immediately caused outrage by other relief groups, saying, look, you've got to keep giving. Maybe this group can send their money to the Red Cross, for goodness sakes.
CAFFERTY: Sure.
SERWER: I mean, what is this, you know, telling them not to give?
CAFFERTY: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) like that.
SERWER: Yes, exactly. So an interesting little wrinkle there to this larger crisis, obviously.
CAFFERTY: It's going to be interesting to watch the kind of overall impact the amount of charity on the part of the Western world toward these people might have on the animosity that Muslims around the world feel for us. I wonder if there might be any change in that equation as we move forward.
SERWER: Well, we'll have to see and watch that.
CAFFERTY: Yes. On to other things. Wednesday is the time for things people say. I will vote, even if it costs me my life. This election for us is like a line between life and death, and we have to choose life. That is a student at the university in Iraq, talking about his country's upcoming elections on January 30.
The judges were so paid off, Anna Nicole Smith, after an appeals court told her to take a hike, honey, you're not getting any of your late ex-husband's money.
Somebody once calculated that I spent $70 million every 20 months during the 1980s. For what, you ask? Well, among other things, coke. Elton John in an interview with a German magazine.
SERWER: Frankly speaking. CAFFERTY: Yes. I promise this thing is 100 percent legitimate. Wade Jones (ph), Belmont, North Carolina, after selling water from a cup he says Elvis drank from during a 1977 concert. He got $455 for a few tablespoons of water, proving that there are still morons running around loose in this country of ours.
SERWER: Yes.
CAFFERTY: And finally, the expectation of my life was that I might be able to work for some good, white folks. Now I've got some good, white folks working for me. Oprah Winfrey speaking at Governor Schwarzenegger's conference on women out in California.
You'd think she might be a little beyond that by now.
(CROSSTALK)
HEMMER: Check the context. No?
SERWER: I don't know if -- I mean, I just think it's, you know, dicey.
COLLINS: The chisel?
HEMMER: The chisel. Thank you, Andy. Thank you, Jack.
In a moment, the latest on the desperate search for survivors. For the father of one little boy, false hope has made the search even more daunting. He tells Soledad his story at the top of the hour after this on AMERICAN MORNING.
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Aired January 5, 2005 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: You can barely see through the morning air here in New York City today. The rain is coming down. It could get worse later tonight and maybe tomorrow. We'll get you posted in a moment with Chad Myers.
It's 8:30 here in New York. And good morning to you. Soledad continues reporting in Thailand. Back to her in a moment.
Also, we'll talk to a man out of Alabama. He is home now after a vacation in Thailand he will never forget. Swept away by the tsunami. Managed to save himself and a little boy along the way. We'll talk to him about what happened at that moment.
Also, Sanjay is coming up, too, talking about the intense emotional strain for children who survived this disaster. How will they now live with the memories? A look at how they're being helped through the excruciating time in their lives. Sanjay is up in a couple of minutes as well.
Heidi Collins is up now. And good morning to you.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you.
And in the news now this morning, we begin in the Middle East, where there's word that at least a dozen Israeli soldiers have been wounded in a rocket attack near the Gaza border. The attack comes just days before Palestinians take to the polls to elect a replacement for Yasser Arafat.
The NAACP is calling for an federal investigation into the death of a black student after a New Year's Eve scuffle in New Orleans. Amateur video shows Lavonne Jones (ph) pinned down by bouncers. That's him in the spot shadow there. Police say the fight broke out after one of Jones' friends was denied entry into a bar. City officials say they will conduct a thorough investigation.
A woman accusing William Kennedy Smith of sexual assault says she plans to file new charges against him. A judge yesterday threw out the case stemming for a sexual encounter between Smith and his former personal assistant back in 1999. Smith, who is a nephew of Senator Edward Kennedy, was cleared of sexual assault charges in another case in 1991.
In California, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger is expected to tell Democrats to play ball during his second State of the State speech tonight. Schwarzenegger is likely to announce that he plans to call special legislative sessions to speed up action on issues he supports. If legislators don't cooperate, the Republican governor may threaten to hold special elections in the fall.
So is that play ball, girly man, or just play ball?
HEMMER: I'm going to wait until he says it again. Thank you, Heidi.
Secretary of State Colin Powell touring the region devastated by the tsunamis -- tsunami, rather, saying that never in his experience, even as a soldier in wartime, has he seen anything like this.
Here's John King now reporting in Banda Aceh in Indonesia.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): From military helicopters, a bird's-eye view of the devastation. The general-turned diplomat stunned by what he had just seen.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: I've been in a war, and I've been through a number of hurricanes, tornadoes and other relief operations, but I have never seen anything like this.
KING: On the aerial survey, Secretary Powell and the delegation saw water and mud, where 10 days ago stood roads and homes, villages. Crumbled foundations, many of the families washed away with the homes.
On the ground, an update of the humanitarian crisis here, and a promise the United States military would do more to help.
POWELL: We will be increasing the number of helicopters that will be available to support T&I (ph) and Indonesian authorities, and we will respond to requests we get from the Indonesian authorities.
KING: This visit is a show of U.S. goodwill and a commitment to Indonesia and other countries hardest hit by the tsunami. But as he travels, an increasingly frustrated Powell is urging his own department to move quickly to get a more accurate count of just how many Americans were killed and how many are truly still missing.
POWELL: We expect that there will be some additional American casualties. It's up to 16 now. But I'm not of the view that the numbers will be anything like what some of our fellow nations have suffered over the last week.
KING (on camera): Secretary Powell and his delegation were on the ground here less than two hours, rushing in and out so that their visit would not complicate or delay the urgent relief effort. In fact, while the delegation took its helicopter tour and met with relief workers here on the ground, Secretary Powell's plane circle the island overhead so as not to clog this critical runway.
John King, CNN, Banda Aceh, Indonesia.
(END VIDEOTAPE) HEMMER: John, thanks for that.
The difference between life and death as the tsunami hit was often a matter of pure chance, and oftentimes in a matter of only seconds when the water came colliding onshore. Glenn Watson saw that for himself 10 days ago on vacation in Thailand. He's back home now in Huntsville, Alabama.
Glenn, good morning to you. And welcome here to AMERICAN MORNING.
GLENN WATSON, SURVIVED TSUNAMI: Good morning.
HEMMER: And you have one heck of a story to tell. What was the first sign of danger you saw, Glenn?
WATSON: Well, I didn't see anything. I heard the people yelling and carrying on out in the mezzanine. And so I went outside and I said, 'What's wrong? What's going on?' And they said, "Tidal wave, tidal wave." And what do you do when somebody says "tidal wave?" I mean, I've never experienced anything like that.
And all of a sudden I saw the wall of water coming in. And I didn't have any second guesses about what I was going to do, get away and head in a different direction. I ran as fast as I could (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
HEMMER: So you got to safe land, right? You got to safe land, and you did it by foot, correct? You ran away from the water?
WATSON: Yes. Yes, I ran away, and I was able to grab a hold of something that didn't break away.
HEMMER: Also with the...
WATSON: Yes, I...
HEMMER: I apologize. There's a bit of a delay in the satellite here. I want to get a little more specific about a boy that came into your view, and you grabbed him. Relay that experience to me, if you could, Glenn.
WATSON: OK. I had reached the stairwell, and I had a good grip on it. And I was trying to get myself up, but the water was sashaying me all over. Well, I tried to get in between, and I grabbed the other stairwell, the railing on the other side, and was holding on, trying to pull up. And I looked down, and I saw a woman and her child just bobbing down through the water, coming my way.
I reached out and I was able to grab the boy and pull him in close enough to where we weren't going in different directions with the water. And I was able to hold onto him, but I couldn't get us out of the water. I didn't have the strength to do that.
And we were both underwater for maybe eight, nine seconds, a long it seemed like. When you're not breathing it's a long time. And then I would get a chance to breathe, and I would hold him up.
And then two Thai guys came down, and they were going to take me. But I said, 'no, no, no, no,' because I didn't think they could hold me. That water was gripping me to pieces. And I said, 'Get the boy.' And they got the boy, and that gave me my chance to hold on with both hands. And that gave me a chance, I knew I wasn't going to get swept away.
HEMMER: So you have the boy. Did you see his mother?
WATSON: Yes, just for a second. And I saw her face, and that's something I see. When I see the tsunami on TV, I can see her face. I'll never live with that. I mean, I'll have a tough time with that. That's a -- but I think she knew that I had her son. And I think maybe -- and she wasn't in fear. She was in almost like a -- just didn't have any expression on her face. But she seemed -- I think she knew I had her kid. I hope she did anyway.
HEMMER: So you believe she's lost?
WATSON: Oh, yes, yes. If you saw that water, if you could see the turmoil, the way that water was going, there was no way that a person can -- you know, most of the people that we picked up the next day were women and children. The men had the physical strength, I think, in some cases to grab onto something and hold on. The women would be pulled away from it. And then after while, when you're not getting enough oxygen, you're going to go down. There were a lot of women and children, an awful lot of Europeans among the Thais.
HEMMER: Two final questions here. Do you know what's happened to the boy, Glenn?
WATSON: I have no idea. From the time that the water started to go away, everything was chaotic. Everybody was trying to help. Everybody was doing something, mainly taking and getting the bodies out of the roadway and out of the ditches and trying to wrap them in sheets. But it was just a madhouse.
And there were trucks and pickup trucks taking people to the hospital, and there was just -- the hospital, I understand, I wasn't at the hospital, the hospital was a madhouse. I have a good friend of mine who's an English teacher from England, her and her husband are retired, in Kamali (ph) Bay in Phuket, Thailand, and her leg was badly damaged. She said the hospital was totally chaotic.
HEMMER: So, Glenn, if I could...
WATSON: If I asked her...
HEMMER: I'm sorry, I'm running short on time here. The boy's alive. I just want to make that clear to our viewers at home.
WATSON: Right.
HEMMER: Now that you're back in Huntsville, Alabama, how does this impact your life? What do you think about on a day-to-day basis? Has it changed you in any substantial way at this point?
WATSON: Well, I naturally appreciate the fact that I'm alive. I really haven't had time to sit back and reflect, you know, because of you guys, you know. And all I guess I can think about is that woman's face. That was the last thing I saw before I was pulled to safety.
HEMMER: Well, we guys are going to let you go, Glenn. Thanks for sharing with us.
WATSON: OK, well...
HEMMER: Good luck to you, OK?
WATSON: Thank you. Have a great day and happy New Year.
HEMMER: Thank you very much, sir, and to you as well.
We have a full line of journalists on the front lines in Southeast Asia, watching developments. Later tonight at 7:00 Eastern, they'll bring you all of the latest stories and news as they gather it throughout the day here. "Turning the Tide" later tonight at 7:00 Eastern. Another reminder of tomorrow night at 10:00 in prime time, another primetime special on the children the of the tsunami of this disaster.
Now to politics this morning. Alberto Gonzales' Senate confirmation hearing starts tomorrow, and some retired military leaders have serious reservations about his nomination as attorney general.
From both sides now. In D.C., Democratic strategist Julian Epstein is here.
Julian, good morning to you.
JULIAN EPSTEIN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: And happy Near Year.
EPSTEIN: Same to you.
HEMMER: Cliff May is here, too. Former RNC communications director now with the Foundation for Defense of Democracy.
Good morning, Cliff.
CLIFF MAY, FMR. RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Good morning, Bill. Good morning to you.
HEMMER: Easy question, Cliff. Are you an attorney?
MAY: I am not.
HEMMER: You're not. OK. I'm going to start with Julian then on this whole matter. Legally, what does Gonzales have to explain if military officials have concerns about his interpretation of torture from two years ago?
EPSTEIN: Well, they're really raising two general sets of concerns. One is Mr. Gonzales' involvement in supervising and approving memos which basically condoned the use of torture and which condoned the administration's position, which is that there shouldn't be judicial supervision over indefinite detentions.
Both of these positions seem to be well outside the mainstream and contrary to maybe 50 years of our Western legal experience and what we've expected as basic norms.
So I think that, combined with other questions about Mr. Gonzales, he was viewed by many on the 9/11 Commission as being somewhat obstructionist when they wanted to get information about the administration's pre-9/11 intelligence failures. His inability or lack of skill, really, in vetting the nomination of Bernard Kerik to the director of Homeland Security has raised a lot of questions in people's minds about whether this guy is, (1), outside the legal mainstream, and, (2), whether he's really the best guy for the job or more of more of a product of (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
HEMMER: Let's try and get Cliff to answer some of this. Does this stand in his way, Cliff?
MAY: Well, there's obviously opposition to him. And I'm afraid a lot of the opposition is very, very partisan, and I think it's regrettable. This is the first time ever a Hispanic has been proposed for attorney general. He has been the president's lawyer. The president knows him well. That's what it means. He's been an attorney in the White House. He comes from a poor Mexican-American family.
I think it's really unfortunate that they're going to -- that this attitude is being taken to him, and these kind of things are being said about him.
Look, I think we should have a debate about how we treat al Qaeda and other terrorists that we capture. Do we give them prison-of-war privileges, which means taxpayers pay them money every month? Do they get cooking utensils and musical instruments? Or do we treat them to a different standard?
What Gonzales was asked to do was to look at the legal parameters and give his best advice on what the law allows and the law doesn't allow. And this is being twisted in a very terrible way, and I think it's really wrong.
EPSTEIN: This is incorrect. Prisoner of war status goes to what are considered armed combatants. This is provided for under the Geneva protocols. I've, in fact, published on this, and I've said that I don't think terrorists get the entitlements of armed combatants and that they don't get that kind of protection. So we agree on that.
What we're talk about here is something totally different. What we're talking about here is Mr. Gonzales improving legal positions of the administration that contravene 50 years of experience, international law and domestic law, which governs some basic principles.
One is that you don't commit torture. You don't engage in torture against armed combatants. Or even if they are war criminals, you still don't engage in torture. And that there are some judicial checks about when it comes to indefinite detentions. These are positions that are widely agreed upon inside the legal community, positions which Mr. Gonzales seems to have a different point of view.
HEMMER: All right, I understand your point, Cliff.
MAY: You know what?
HEMMER: Cliff, go ahead and respond to that.
MAY: When he is up for his confirmation hearings, you can ask him about that. But Gonzales is no more in favor of torture than you are or I am.
The question is: What constitutes torture? If you put me in a room alone with Michael Moore for 24 hours, I might think it's torture, but somebody else might not.
The question is: What can you do within interrogation? Again, prisoner-of-war status means you ask only name, rank and serial number. I think can you do more than that when you've got a terrorist who has important information. Not torture, but what is called stress and duress. This is an important issue. It shouldn't be reduced to this kind of partisanship. Ask the guy what he thinks. By the way, he'll be attorney general. He'll obey the laws of the land.
HEMMER: All right.
MAY: Congress can make any laws it wants.
HEMMER: The hearing will start tomorrow. We'll follow it then. Thanks, Cliff. Thanks, Julian.
MAY: Thank you.
EPSTEIN: Thank you, Bill.
HEMMER: We'll talk to you soon, gentlemen. Thanks -- Heidi.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: Why would a charity urge people to stop sending money? The answer is causing a bit of an outrage. Andy is "Minding Your Business." He has an answer on that in a moment.
COLLINS: Plus, the smallest survivors of the tsunami disaster. How are relief workers addressing children's emotional needs now? We'll talk with Dr. Sanjay Gupta about that ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: The U.N. says one and a half million children have been injured or lost someone in the tsunami disaster. The cornerstone of the relief effort is now providing emotional aid to children.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta is covering that story in Beruwala, Sri Lanka. He's joining us now live from there.
Dr. Sanjay -- hello.
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Heidi. How are you doing?
Yes, we've been focusing on all of the various traumas, both physical and psychological, focusing on children over the last couple of days. I've sort of embedded myself with one of the big charitable organizations traveling around the country to see what they're doing.
We've been hearing so much about the potential epidemics. I've got to tell you now, having traveled around the country, I haven't seen epidemics per se, but we're starting to see now over a week out concerns about psychological trauma.
What is the trauma of having survived a tsunami or having lost one or both of your parents? And these are the sorts of things we're starting to see.
I should point out, there's not really a psychological system infrastructure really in place here in Sri Lanka. So a lot of what we're seeing are therapies that are used in war zones and refugee camps around the world. Therapies like art therapy, for example, getting children to actually draw what it was that they saw, what it was that terrified them. And then to quickly follow that up with a more happy drawing.
Also music therapy, getting children to sing as well, getting to sing more songs about motivation, positive things, seems to help as well. Not a lot of this rooted in science, but a lot of the charitable organizations starting this in displacement camps around the country -- Heidi.
COLLINS: I just can't get past their sweet little faces when you see them smiling there on the screen, Sanjay. It's difficult, too, knowing that there are still huge health concerns. Are you seeing any signs of epidemics yet, Sanjay?
GUPTA: You know, a couple of things to keep in mind. First of all, the answer is no. We haven't seen anything I would call an epidemic as of now.
A couple things, though. First of all, it is early still. We're just past a week out. Typically, if an epidemic is going to occur, the type of epidemic such as cholera or dysentery, malaria, hepatitis, those are the ones we worry about the most. It might be several days out still before we'd see those.
The second thing is there's not a lot of laboratories to be able to diagnose exactly what some of the folks have in these displacement camps. So, in fact, they may have illness, but not diagnosed with cholera or dysentery yet. The news is good so far, though, Heidi. Not seeing any of these epidemics so far.
COLLINS: Oh, that is excellent, Sanjay. Tell us a little bit more, though, if you could, about what you're seeing as you travel around Sri Lanka to some of the hardest-hit areas.
GUPTA: Well, you know, it's been really interesting for me, Heidi, and I think for everybody. We've traveled sort of all over the southern part of this country, starting in Colombo, making our way around the southern tip of the country and coming back north along the west coast -- I'm sorry -- the east coast there. The destruction gets worse as you get further south, as you get closer to where the tsunami hit.
You've seen all of the images of just how terrible the destruction can be, what that force of water did, even up to a couple of kilometers inland.
What struck me, though, as well, Heidi, is this not a country that I have visited before, but I have visited this part of the world. It is a beautiful part of the world. I don't know if you can see some of the image there. But some of the things that we've seen, we just stopped the car and stared at the beauty of this country, looking at the sunsets, looking at that ocean, looking at the jungle. There are so many beautiful things about this country. It is going to take an impossibly long time to rebuild. But looking at some of the images I hope you just saw, you an see that everyone would think that it's worth it.
COLLINS: Yes, we did see those images. Still, I'm sure, they don't do the country and that area justice, that's for sure. Well, Sanjay, thanks so much for that.
We want to let everybody to know, tomorrow night, something you don't want to miss here on CNN, a primetime special called "Saving the Children" with Anderson Cooper and Christiane Amanpour. Soledad also contributing to this special, focusing on the children affected by the tsunamis. Once again, that's coming your way, 10:00 p.m. Eastern on Thursday.
HEMMER: One charity is telling people to stop sending money. Andy explains that after the break. Back with Jack, too, right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All right. Welcome back, everybody. Back to Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Word now that one relief group has collected so much in donations for relief for the tsunami victims that they're telling people, don't send any more money.
Andy Serwer is here with "Minding Your Business."
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Did you know it was a French group?
CAFFERTY: I didn't.
SERWER: Well, you're going to like this story, Jack.
Let's talk about the markets, first of all. Two days of trading on Wall Street this year, and both days down. Not a good trend. The Dow down 98 points, Nasdaq down over 2 percent. Higher oil prices and fear of higher interest rates to come, spooking stocks. It does not look like the bleeding will stop this morning, at least at the open, because futures continue to fall. Not good news there.
Medecins Sans Frontieres. He loves it when I talk French to him like that. That's Doctors Without Borders, a French relief group, has said that it has enough money. It says, don't send any more money. The French group has got $40 million. The German group got $27 million. On their Web site it says, enough.
This immediately caused outrage by other relief groups, saying, look, you've got to keep giving. Maybe this group can send their money to the Red Cross, for goodness sakes.
CAFFERTY: Sure.
SERWER: I mean, what is this, you know, telling them not to give?
CAFFERTY: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) like that.
SERWER: Yes, exactly. So an interesting little wrinkle there to this larger crisis, obviously.
CAFFERTY: It's going to be interesting to watch the kind of overall impact the amount of charity on the part of the Western world toward these people might have on the animosity that Muslims around the world feel for us. I wonder if there might be any change in that equation as we move forward.
SERWER: Well, we'll have to see and watch that.
CAFFERTY: Yes. On to other things. Wednesday is the time for things people say. I will vote, even if it costs me my life. This election for us is like a line between life and death, and we have to choose life. That is a student at the university in Iraq, talking about his country's upcoming elections on January 30.
The judges were so paid off, Anna Nicole Smith, after an appeals court told her to take a hike, honey, you're not getting any of your late ex-husband's money.
Somebody once calculated that I spent $70 million every 20 months during the 1980s. For what, you ask? Well, among other things, coke. Elton John in an interview with a German magazine.
SERWER: Frankly speaking. CAFFERTY: Yes. I promise this thing is 100 percent legitimate. Wade Jones (ph), Belmont, North Carolina, after selling water from a cup he says Elvis drank from during a 1977 concert. He got $455 for a few tablespoons of water, proving that there are still morons running around loose in this country of ours.
SERWER: Yes.
CAFFERTY: And finally, the expectation of my life was that I might be able to work for some good, white folks. Now I've got some good, white folks working for me. Oprah Winfrey speaking at Governor Schwarzenegger's conference on women out in California.
You'd think she might be a little beyond that by now.
(CROSSTALK)
HEMMER: Check the context. No?
SERWER: I don't know if -- I mean, I just think it's, you know, dicey.
COLLINS: The chisel?
HEMMER: The chisel. Thank you, Andy. Thank you, Jack.
In a moment, the latest on the desperate search for survivors. For the father of one little boy, false hope has made the search even more daunting. He tells Soledad his story at the top of the hour after this on AMERICAN MORNING.
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