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American Morning
Plane Crash in New Jersey; Update on the Pope's Health; Preview of State of the Union Address
Aired February 02, 2005 - 9:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The NTSB issued a warning to pilots of small planes to pay close attention to de-icing the wings since the configuration is especially susceptible to ice. So we give you that information as well.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And, as fact, as we begin the start of our hour, our 9:00 hour here on the East Coast, let's update everybody who may just be joining us. We've been following this story for over an hour now here at AMERICAN MORNING.
A small corporate jet crashed in New Jersey. but afterward, definitely, we saw flames inside that plane. The plane a twin engine turbo jet, a C-600 Challenger, was taking off from Teterboro Airport, never gained any altitude, though.
Instead, it skidded right off the end of the runway through several fences across a major roadway, Route 46, onto the side of a warehouse, a warehouse for a woman's clothing store, Strawberry's. Then it burst into flames apparently.
The eyewitness at the scene saying that she didn't seem to think that the plane was on fire as it rolled into the warehouse. But afterwards, definitely we saw flames inside that plane.
Twelve people, we are told, on board. The plane headed for Chicago's Midway Airport. Detail, though, on the number of injured still a little bit sketchy.
We know that at least 11 people were injured, two are reported missing. Those number potentially, as we bring the shot back up there, potentially on the ground and in the warehouse, and, of course, on the plane as well, all those people have yet to be accounted for fully.
The plane is registered to a tax consulting firm out of Dallas, Texas. The firm called 448 Alliance LLC. The FAA now on the way to the scene with their go team.
A little bit earlier, we spoke with Jack Lattiere. He is the commissioner of the New Jersey Department of Transportation. Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACK LATTIERE, NJ DEPT. OF TRANSPORTATION: First, we're going to ensure in the overall investigation, and working with the FAA, the cause of the accident. That's number one.
Number two is, we'll go back and take a look to see how quickly we were able to respond and whether we believe our response was adequate. Although it was very, very timely today, to see how we can improve the coordination between all the agencies.
It worked very seamlessly this morning. But we want to really always make sure that, you know, we're always on top of our emergency relief operations. There have been great cooperation with the New Jersey Turnpike, the local police in the area, in setting up diversions so that we can get traffic moving during the morning rush.
We will experience some delays, because Route 46 is a major carrier. But we always get cooperation from the motorists. So we indulge on their patience today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Jack Lattiere of the New Jersey Transportation -- Department of Transportation talking with us.
HEMMER: Chad is with us as well. We talked about the weather throughout the morning here regarding this incident here. And I want to get back to Chad Myers right now. The crash not determined yet. And we are walking with caution now because there are so many answers we do not have at this point.
Chad, what more do you have about the flight path going out to Chicago, Midway?
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, if the thing sat on the runway or on the tarmac overnight, there was some potential for some frost to develop on those wings. I've been trying to talk to as many people that I know that live in New Jersey, around that crash area, to figure ut whether they had to scrape frost off their windshield or not. And so far, all the answers have been no, they did not have to scrape the frost.
But that's the frost that could have been on the wing. If you get a frost on a windshield, obviously, not in the garage, you park the car out overnight, you can get that frost on the windshield. And when that happens, if a pilot -- or if you can't see it, it doesn't get de-iced, that can stop the wing from having the lift that it needs to get the plane off the ground.
Here's a picture that I have for you. This is our Digital Globe Viewer, a picture of Manhattan Island itself. This will kind of give you an idea. From those of you that are really not from the Northeast and are watching where we are, that's the Manhattan Island, obviously the Hudson River.
Now we're flying over the Meadowlands and into New Jersey. There, right there, that's as close as this airport is. This is Teterboro Airport right here. We're flying into now runway 6.
Six going to the north, obviously, and 24 or 240 coming the other way. The planes were actually taking off to the north today. There was very little wind. It really didn't matter which way the planes were going, which way they were taking off.
But the runway here in the airport did say we're take off to the Northeast today. It was taking off this runway here. Should have been lifted by now. Clearly, the reports say that didn't happen. And the building you see in the way in the building that you see in all those live shots from all those helicopter shots in New York City.
HEMMER: Chad, very interesting. Thanks for that.
Three concerns, the de-icing that we talked about, perhaps the engine, the health and the condition of these two jet engines, and also the weight on board. And again, as we go throughout the morning here, a lot of answers we do not have. A lot of questions, rather, without answers.
More with Soledad.
O'BRIEN: The plane crash happening just after 7:20 a.m. here on the East Coast. Let's get right back to Miles O'Brien, who's obviously a colleague of ours and a expert in these things, and part of that because he is a pilot himself.
Miles, the FAA, we are told now, has a go team on the way. They should be there momentarily. Actually, they're just coming out of Parsippany, New Jersey. Give me a sense of what they're going to look for in this investigation.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think they've got a long list, as they always do in these cases. And the way they do this is they kind of divide these go teams into areas of specialty.
You know, somebody will look at the human factor, is what -- did the pilots get a good night's rest, what sort of record did they have. Somebody will look at the power plants (ph). Somebody will look at the weights and balance issues.
Was it overloaded? Somebody will ask the questions about whether, in fact, there was the possibility of frost forming on those wings. And, if so, did the pilots respond accordingly?
One thing I'd like to point out, too, is there's a lot of time spent, you now, going through the wreckage, making a determination as to what all the settings were on the engines and control surfaces. They will look at the flaps, for example, to see that those flap settings were precisely where they should be for the recommendation of the manufacturer, in this case, Canadair.
And one thing I should point out, I got a call from an airline pilot friend of mine. He said that in the wreckage he saw very clearly that the thrust reversers had been deployed on those two engines.
Now, anybody who's landed in a commercial airliner knows what thrust reversers are. It's that sudden braking sensation you feel as you land on the runway. Literally, what happens is little pieces of metal come out and deflect the thrust of the engine in the opposite direction to slow down the airplane.
So the reason I point that out is it seems very clear from looking at that that those pilots were trying desperately to stop that airplane. Now, if they did their job right, they did their weights and balances correctly, they loaded the plane properly, they had the right amount of fuel, if they had lost an engine for some reason, before a certain speed that's called V-1 -- that's a pilot term -- but before that certain speed, and they hit the breaks, as they are supposed to in that case, there should have been enough runway to stop that airplane before it reached the outer ramparts of the airport.
A couple of questions then are, well, was it loaded properly? Was there enough runway space allotted, given all the conditions? And those questions will have to be answered.
It is possible that there was some sort of icing condition on the runway, some black ice. Chad was talking about that possibility earlier, ice which pilots had not detected. In other words, they hit the brakes and they didn't have any traction. And off they went, off the edge of the runway.
So I think, looking at that possibility, the possibility that those thrust reversers were deployed, in my mind, takes the frost issue a little lower on the list. Because if, in fact, it was frost which caused this, the pilots would have had no cause on the ground to try to cause the plane to brake.
In other words, they would have -- they would have blissfully taken off and assumed that they had a good airplane to fly, and there wouldn't have been any attempt to stop on the runway. So what happened on that runway? Did an engine fail? Did a goose fly into it or something, some sort of bird? Was there something that, you know, went in front of them, an animal?
It seems unlikely in a downtown airport like that. But those are all scenarios that the NTSB will look at.
S. O'BRIEN: Let me ask you a question about the black boxes. We're told that the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) reports that the black boxes will be recovered, the voice and data. Is that standard on all private jets?
I mean, this is a, we mentioned, 13 passengers, potentially, or could be seated on this plane. Or 13 I think total it might be, 13 people, including the crew members, maybe. Would there -- do you have to have black boxes on those -- on these kinds of planes?
M. O'BRIEN: It's a murky area of changing regulation. And the short answer is that the bigger the corporate jets, the more likely you are to have those boxes on board.
It also has something to do with how those planes are flown, if they are in a charter operation or if they are owned by the people who are flying. In this case, I believe it was owned directly by the company that was using it. So they would fall under a different set of rules than somebody who was actually having an airplane for hire.
In any case, this is a relatively new airplane. And I think we can -- we can probably -- there have been reports this morning that they had both the flight data recorder, which covers all those instrument issues, and also the cockpit voice recorder, which in a case like this can be perhaps more telling. That actually captures the conversations of the pilots as they went down that runway.
S. O'BRIEN: No question that the FAA go team is going to want to get a look at those two things. Miles O'Brien for us this morning. Miles, thank you. Of course we're going to ask you stick around and stand by for us as we continue to cover this story. It's one of our top stories this morning.
HEMMER: That it is. And two other notes here as we continue to scan The Associated Press wires about this story.
We've been reporting about emergency management saying that they were in the warehouse conducting a "rescue operation." The AP is also quoting a state police trooper as saying that "you act on that assumption until you know otherwise."
And one other eyewitness saying, "Usually we see these planes lift off in the air, but this one just went straight, started scratching the ground. There were sparks shooting out all over the place." That's according to a psychologist who is a neighbor in the area. We'll get back to this story in Teterboro, New Jersey, in a moment here.
But first, want to turn our attention now back overseas. Vatican sources say Pope John Paul II spent a peaceful night in the hospital and that he'll remain there for the next few days.
The leader of the world's one billion Catholics rushed from the Vatican late last night with breathing problems. He's 84 years old. He's been suffering from the flu. And while the Vatican says the condition for the pope required urgent medical care, officials say Pope John Paul II is not in the intensive care unit and that there is no cause for alarm.
CNN Vatican analyst John Allen now joins us by way of Rome with more there.
John, what have you heard lately? The Vatican has said what about his condition?
JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Hi, Bill.
Well, basically, they are trying to strike every reassuring note that they can. What they've told us this morning, as you say, he passed a relatively restful night. This morning, he met with some of his top aides from the Vatican.
He was lucid, engaged. He had a little bit of breakfast, drank a little bit of coffee, and actually participated in a mass in his hospital room. They're indicating they expect him to make a full and speedy recovery. And this morning, a senior Vatican official told me they still very much hope that John Paul will be able next Tuesday to meet with Condoleezza Rice when she's in town on a state visit. So they're trying to tell us they think he's going to pull through and pull through in relatively good shape.
HEMMER: John, based on your history of covering this man and covering the Vatican, what is the reason that we understand as to why he would be taken to the hospital at this point, knowing that he has not been in the best of health for the past several years?
ALLEN: Well, you know, first of all, this is unusual. I mean, this is the ninth time he's been hospitalized in Gemelli. But this is the first time he's been rushed there on an emergency basis in an ambulance.
So that obviously indicates that something serious was going on. And I think basically the reality is, you've got a man who's almost 84, he'll be 85 in May, he has Parkinson's Disease and a number of other elements. And what that means is that when his breathing becomes labored, that very easily could become something more serious.
And I think they wanted to have state-of-the-art technology and all the medical care at their disposal to try to intervene, should a real crisis have developed. What they're telling us this morning is that real crisis never took place.
HEMMER: Yes. The Vatican sometimes can be tight as a drum when it come to information. How open have they been on this so far?
ALLEN: Well, you know, by historical standards, you know, if you compare it to the way they used to be, where, you know, the saying always was, "The pope is never sick until he's dead," by those standards, they have been relatively forthcoming. I mean, we got two bulletins late last night, we got another one this morning. And the papal spokesperson, Joaquin Navarro-Valls, has briefly taken questions from the press.
And they've given us a few more details about his condition than has often been the case in the past. However, you know, by -- by other standards of comparison, if this had been the president of the United States, or the prime minister of Britain, where you would have hourly medical updates, certainly, Bill, we don't have that kind of information at our disposal.
HEMMER: Yes. What -- this is one question that has persisted throughout this story. And really, it goes back for the past several years. If the pope's health declines so much that he was unable to continue with his job and his duties, what would the Vatican do? Does he step aside? Does he say, "OK, I'll resign," and then the college of cardinals go about the search for the next pope?
ALLEN: Well, the basic answer, Bill, is that the code of canon law -- it's a massive code of law for the Catholic Church -- contains no procedure for what to do in the case of papal incapacitation. I mean, there is an article in there, Canon 332, that would allow for a papal resignation. But it assumes that the pope is lucid and that he's doing it of his own free mind and will.
What happens in a case in which he is -- he is out and unable to communicate his wishes simply is a great unknown. But I think what's happened, Bill, in the last few years is that as John Paul's physical condition has worsened, his capacity to be engaged in the day-to-day business of running the church has already become quite limited. And much of that slack has already been picked up by a senior aide.
So, in a case like this, where he's -- he's down for a few days and unable to take part in much business, I mean, the system already is set up so that it will continue more or less as normal. But the question you're asking is one to which there simply is no clear answer.
HEMMER: Here's an answer for you, or maybe you can give it to us. What explains why this man is such a fighter?
ALLEN: Well, look, I think it's a complicated thing. I think part of it is the fact, you know, there is that sort of Polish stubbornness about him, you know, that unwilling -- that undaunted unwillingness, you know, to be cowed.
I think part of it is his personal biography. This is a man who saw a lot of life's hard knocks early on.
He lost his mother as a small child. He lost his brother and then his father when he was an early adult. And he was essentially on his own, an orphan in the world.
He lived through the period of Nazi occupation of Poland. But part of it also is his deep personal spirituality. This is a man of rock-solid faith who believes that his destiny is not simply in the hands of fate, but it's in the hands of god.
And when that's your belief system, and you believe it in every fiber of your being, I think that gives you a resilience, frankly, that most of us don't have. And I think we're seeing that today.
HEMMER: Thank you, John. John Allen there from Rome with the latest on the pope -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: The status of the pope's health, of course, is just one of three big stories that we're following this morning. We're also going to talk to you about the State of the Union Address that happens this evening with President Bush.
And we're following breaking news out of New Jersey this morning. A fiery small jet crash at Teterboro Airport. Police say there are fatalities. We're going to have more details as they come in.
Also ahead this morning, Carlos Watson previewing the State of the Union Address.
Stay with us, everybody. AMERICAN MORNING continues right after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLOS WATSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: ... be clear about your congressional agenda.
Goal number two is really talk about the heart of that agenda, which is the Social Security reform plan that he has, and really move the public closer to where he is. A, feeling like that there is a crisis that needs to be addressed. And B, that he's got a clear plan to do it.
And then last, but not least, not only does he need to rally the public, but it will be important for him to energize members of his own team. A lot of people when they hear that, they think, gosh, the president is going to have a tough time with the Senate. I really think in many cases he'll have a harder time with members of the House, especially on the issue of Social Security.
HEMMER: When it comes to Social Security, though, Carlos, we're told that more details will come out tonight. And certainly, that's going to be a major focus for this speech. Outside of Social Security, what else do you look for on the domestic side?
WATSON: You'll hear a series of other things. You'll certainly hear about tort reform, which has been a big issue for the president, lawsuits and capping the damages there. You'll hear more about education. You'll certainly hear about immigration as well.
And all these, as well as several other issues, will be put under the rubric of the opportunity society. That's a phrase the president has used a good bit and kind of represents his domestic agenda.
HEMMER: All right. Let's go overseas now. Iraq will be a focus. We are three or four days removed from the elections on Sunday. How does he frame this issue tonight, Carlos?
WATSON: You know, he'll actually use the international success that arguably the Iraqi elections represent. Maybe some eight million people having voted, which is pretty meaningful there, and say that he took a risk, he gambled, it paid off. And consequently, we should do the same kind of thing domestically here.
So he'll link the success in Iraq with what he believes we should do here domestically in terms of Social Security and say, come with me again, take a chance, it will pay off in a significant way.
HEMMER: Well, clearly, it's an important speech. It sets the tone at the beginning of the second term. Talk about style, talk about presence, something you call the three Cs.
WATSON: The three Cs, the importance of being clear, concise and compelling. You remember after the inaugural address, a lot of people criticized the president. In fact, some of the president's people, including his own father, had to go back and clarify what the president meant. This time around, he's got to be particularly clear about his legislative agenda.
In terms of being concise, we've seen a number of president, including Bill Clinton, become more verbose, if you will, as their state of the unions went along. President Clinton started his first state of the union -- or his first message, rather -- at 63 minutes, ended up at 89 minutes with the final one. The president hopefully won't do that this time.
And then last but not least, he's got to be compelling, particularly again on the issue of Social Security. He's got to make not only the public, but again, members of his own team feel confident that he's got a plan that will not only have policy benefits but political benefits.
HEMMER: Carlos, thanks. You'll be watching tonight. So will we. We'll have you back tomorrow morning and we'll check out the three Cs then. OK?
WATSON: Look forward to seeing you.
HEMMER: Thank you, Carlos.
Stay tuned later tonight for our live coverage of that address in D.C. Special coverage starts at 8:00 Eastern, 5:00 on the West Coast. And tomorrow, Soledad will be live down in Washington with our coverage starting, as it does every morning, at 7:00 a.m. Eastern Time.
S. O'BRIEN: And, of course, we're still following that breaking news out of New Jersey this morning. Two people missing, 11 others hurt. The very latest developments, plus word from a hospital spokesperson just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody. We have been covering, of course, this breaking news out of Teterboro, New Jersey, the plane crash there. Let's get right to the phone and Jane Ellis, who is the spokeswoman for Holy Name Hospital. That's just about five miles northeast of Teterboro.
Ms. Ellis, thanks for being with us. Appreciate it. Why don't you tell me when you started to first start see patients come in.
JANE ELLIS, HOLY NAME HOSPITAL: At 8:00 this morning we had our first patient present, a 22-year-old female. She has minor injuries, is still being evaluated, but is in stable condition.
At approximately 8:30, we had our second person present in the ER, a 35-year-old male who, again, has minor injuries, but he has been covered in fuel oil. So he is in the process now of being decontaminated.
S. O'BRIEN: Are you expecting more patients to arrive at the hospital momentarily? ELLIS: I believe it's still unknown as to what actually was going on in the building when the plane hit. So we don't know whether we're going to receive more victims or not.
S. O'BRIEN: Let's break it down a little more. You say the young woman had minor injuries first. Can you be more specific about the extent of her injuries, what they were specifically?
ELLIS: Not at this time. She's still being evaluated.
S. O'BRIEN: Do you have any idea whether those were people who were inside the plane or motorists?
ELLIS: One of the patients we received, the young woman, was a flight attendant.
S. O'BRIEN: What is being done for these two at this point? If their injuries are minor, are you expected to release them in a few hours, later in the day?
ELLIS: As I said, both of the persons we have in our emergency room are still in the evaluation mode. And once it is ascertained as to the degree of their injury, then it will be determined as to whether or not they will be treated and released today.
S. O'BRIEN: Ms. Ellis, how does it usually work? Would you get notification if you were expecting many more patients to be coming in, let's say...
ELLIS: Absolutely.
S. O'BRIEN: So potentially they would give you the head's up to expect another dozen people to come in?
ELLIS: Absolutely. Correct.
S. O'BRIEN: You have not gotten that word yet?
ELLIS: At this point in time, we have not received word of any more injuries on the scene other than what is being touted on the news.
S. O'BRIEN: Jane Ellis is a spokeswoman for Holy Name Hospital, just about five miles northeast of where this crash occurred, Teterboro Airport, in Teterboro, New Jersey. Ms. Ellis, thank you very much. Appreciate your time and your update for us.
HEMMER: While you two were talking, there is Hackensack University Medical Center in the same area. Five others apparently injured taken to that particular facility. No word on the condition, but there may be a press conference next hour from that medical facility. So when that happens, we'll bring it to you.
S. O'BRIEN: We were talking earlier this morning about the "Question of the Day." Let's get back to Jack with that. JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Before we do, I've gotten a lot of e- mail from private pilots and people watching the coverage of this. Many of them pointing out that those thrust reversers are clearly visible as having been deployed.
And the other point that they make, and I think is probably a valid one, is that you were talking about what the takeoff speed of this airplane is, 160 or 170 miles an hour. Based on those pictures, there's no way it's going nearly that fast when it hit that building. At 170 miles an hour, that plane would have gone clear through that warehouse, not stopped at barely knocking down the front wall.
S. O'BRIEN: Right. Just the nose is going through.
CAFFERTY: So if -- if the thrust reversers, in fact, had been deployed, and if our speculation about the takeoff speed versus the speed at which it was traveling when it impacted the building are correct, it's very possible that that pilot made a split-second decision, trying to abort the takeoff and maybe saved a whole bunch of lives.
S. O'BRIEN: We will -- we will know much more later of course.
CAFFERTY: The question of the day is about our old friend Bill Clinton. U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan has asked the former president to head up the tsunami reconstruction relief efforts as a special envoy. Rumors have been speculating that Clinton may be next in line for the top post at the U.N., that of secretary-general, when Kofi Annan's term is up next year.
Already there are opponents. Jesse Helms think it's a terrible idea. Fired off a letter, saying the move would be "a tragic mistake."
But the question we were having a little fun with here this morning was, would former President Bill Clinton make a good candidate to be U.N. secretary-general?
Pamela writes from Michigan, "With all the world's been through in the last four years, President Clinton, who is like a rock star around the world and known for putting people first, would be a great asset for the Bush administration as U.N. secretary-general."
Sandy has a different view in Chesterfield, South Carolina. "You know, I had no use for this man when he was in office. I have no use for him now. I just wish he'd take his clueless wife and go home."
HEMMER: Oh.
CAFFERTY: Cathy in Athens, Tennessee, "Yes, Bill Clinton's probably the greatest speaker we ever had in the Oval Office. He is a people person, the world loved him when he was in office, the world still loves him, and that would make him a fantastic candidate."
Jerry in Alpharetta, Georgia, "To continue the role of the U.N. in the world, someone inept in diplomacy, unable to make the difficult decisions, willing to bow to any interest that's backed by cash, able to talk in cliches and totally non-committal with the important issues facing the world, but willing to take credit for others' work is what is needed to run that body. The name Jacques Chirac comes to mind."
And Greg in Westville, Nova Scotia, "Good morning, Jack. Yes, Bill Clinton's a very capable, intelligent man. But stop mentioning Bill Clinton's name and 'secretary' in the same sentence unless you want to see Hillary fainting again."
HEMMER: What is he, 58? We've had former presidents -- Howard Taft, Supreme Court justice.
CAFFERTY: But yes, of course he just had the quadruple-bypass surgery. He looks like he's feeling pretty well, and the doctors say he's doing all right, but I don't know how ambitious I'd be to take on a major undertaking. That would be one, obviously, leader of the U.N., with that kind of health situation in my past.
O'BRIEN: I don't know, I think President Clinton's pretty ambitious in that sort of way.
CAFFERTY: Well, very concerned about his legacy, too.
O'BRIEN: Absolutely.
CAFFERTY: Must not lose sight of that.
O'BRIEN: It's an interesting question. Thanks, Jack.
More on the breaking story out of New Jersey this morning, that small jet crashing into a warehouse near Teterboro, Airport. Twelve people, we're told, are onboard. Police say two people missing. We've going to get more details and we'll bring them to you as we get them. That's just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired February 2, 2005 - 9:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The NTSB issued a warning to pilots of small planes to pay close attention to de-icing the wings since the configuration is especially susceptible to ice. So we give you that information as well.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And, as fact, as we begin the start of our hour, our 9:00 hour here on the East Coast, let's update everybody who may just be joining us. We've been following this story for over an hour now here at AMERICAN MORNING.
A small corporate jet crashed in New Jersey. but afterward, definitely, we saw flames inside that plane. The plane a twin engine turbo jet, a C-600 Challenger, was taking off from Teterboro Airport, never gained any altitude, though.
Instead, it skidded right off the end of the runway through several fences across a major roadway, Route 46, onto the side of a warehouse, a warehouse for a woman's clothing store, Strawberry's. Then it burst into flames apparently.
The eyewitness at the scene saying that she didn't seem to think that the plane was on fire as it rolled into the warehouse. But afterwards, definitely we saw flames inside that plane.
Twelve people, we are told, on board. The plane headed for Chicago's Midway Airport. Detail, though, on the number of injured still a little bit sketchy.
We know that at least 11 people were injured, two are reported missing. Those number potentially, as we bring the shot back up there, potentially on the ground and in the warehouse, and, of course, on the plane as well, all those people have yet to be accounted for fully.
The plane is registered to a tax consulting firm out of Dallas, Texas. The firm called 448 Alliance LLC. The FAA now on the way to the scene with their go team.
A little bit earlier, we spoke with Jack Lattiere. He is the commissioner of the New Jersey Department of Transportation. Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACK LATTIERE, NJ DEPT. OF TRANSPORTATION: First, we're going to ensure in the overall investigation, and working with the FAA, the cause of the accident. That's number one.
Number two is, we'll go back and take a look to see how quickly we were able to respond and whether we believe our response was adequate. Although it was very, very timely today, to see how we can improve the coordination between all the agencies.
It worked very seamlessly this morning. But we want to really always make sure that, you know, we're always on top of our emergency relief operations. There have been great cooperation with the New Jersey Turnpike, the local police in the area, in setting up diversions so that we can get traffic moving during the morning rush.
We will experience some delays, because Route 46 is a major carrier. But we always get cooperation from the motorists. So we indulge on their patience today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Jack Lattiere of the New Jersey Transportation -- Department of Transportation talking with us.
HEMMER: Chad is with us as well. We talked about the weather throughout the morning here regarding this incident here. And I want to get back to Chad Myers right now. The crash not determined yet. And we are walking with caution now because there are so many answers we do not have at this point.
Chad, what more do you have about the flight path going out to Chicago, Midway?
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, if the thing sat on the runway or on the tarmac overnight, there was some potential for some frost to develop on those wings. I've been trying to talk to as many people that I know that live in New Jersey, around that crash area, to figure ut whether they had to scrape frost off their windshield or not. And so far, all the answers have been no, they did not have to scrape the frost.
But that's the frost that could have been on the wing. If you get a frost on a windshield, obviously, not in the garage, you park the car out overnight, you can get that frost on the windshield. And when that happens, if a pilot -- or if you can't see it, it doesn't get de-iced, that can stop the wing from having the lift that it needs to get the plane off the ground.
Here's a picture that I have for you. This is our Digital Globe Viewer, a picture of Manhattan Island itself. This will kind of give you an idea. From those of you that are really not from the Northeast and are watching where we are, that's the Manhattan Island, obviously the Hudson River.
Now we're flying over the Meadowlands and into New Jersey. There, right there, that's as close as this airport is. This is Teterboro Airport right here. We're flying into now runway 6.
Six going to the north, obviously, and 24 or 240 coming the other way. The planes were actually taking off to the north today. There was very little wind. It really didn't matter which way the planes were going, which way they were taking off.
But the runway here in the airport did say we're take off to the Northeast today. It was taking off this runway here. Should have been lifted by now. Clearly, the reports say that didn't happen. And the building you see in the way in the building that you see in all those live shots from all those helicopter shots in New York City.
HEMMER: Chad, very interesting. Thanks for that.
Three concerns, the de-icing that we talked about, perhaps the engine, the health and the condition of these two jet engines, and also the weight on board. And again, as we go throughout the morning here, a lot of answers we do not have. A lot of questions, rather, without answers.
More with Soledad.
O'BRIEN: The plane crash happening just after 7:20 a.m. here on the East Coast. Let's get right back to Miles O'Brien, who's obviously a colleague of ours and a expert in these things, and part of that because he is a pilot himself.
Miles, the FAA, we are told now, has a go team on the way. They should be there momentarily. Actually, they're just coming out of Parsippany, New Jersey. Give me a sense of what they're going to look for in this investigation.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think they've got a long list, as they always do in these cases. And the way they do this is they kind of divide these go teams into areas of specialty.
You know, somebody will look at the human factor, is what -- did the pilots get a good night's rest, what sort of record did they have. Somebody will look at the power plants (ph). Somebody will look at the weights and balance issues.
Was it overloaded? Somebody will ask the questions about whether, in fact, there was the possibility of frost forming on those wings. And, if so, did the pilots respond accordingly?
One thing I'd like to point out, too, is there's a lot of time spent, you now, going through the wreckage, making a determination as to what all the settings were on the engines and control surfaces. They will look at the flaps, for example, to see that those flap settings were precisely where they should be for the recommendation of the manufacturer, in this case, Canadair.
And one thing I should point out, I got a call from an airline pilot friend of mine. He said that in the wreckage he saw very clearly that the thrust reversers had been deployed on those two engines.
Now, anybody who's landed in a commercial airliner knows what thrust reversers are. It's that sudden braking sensation you feel as you land on the runway. Literally, what happens is little pieces of metal come out and deflect the thrust of the engine in the opposite direction to slow down the airplane.
So the reason I point that out is it seems very clear from looking at that that those pilots were trying desperately to stop that airplane. Now, if they did their job right, they did their weights and balances correctly, they loaded the plane properly, they had the right amount of fuel, if they had lost an engine for some reason, before a certain speed that's called V-1 -- that's a pilot term -- but before that certain speed, and they hit the breaks, as they are supposed to in that case, there should have been enough runway to stop that airplane before it reached the outer ramparts of the airport.
A couple of questions then are, well, was it loaded properly? Was there enough runway space allotted, given all the conditions? And those questions will have to be answered.
It is possible that there was some sort of icing condition on the runway, some black ice. Chad was talking about that possibility earlier, ice which pilots had not detected. In other words, they hit the brakes and they didn't have any traction. And off they went, off the edge of the runway.
So I think, looking at that possibility, the possibility that those thrust reversers were deployed, in my mind, takes the frost issue a little lower on the list. Because if, in fact, it was frost which caused this, the pilots would have had no cause on the ground to try to cause the plane to brake.
In other words, they would have -- they would have blissfully taken off and assumed that they had a good airplane to fly, and there wouldn't have been any attempt to stop on the runway. So what happened on that runway? Did an engine fail? Did a goose fly into it or something, some sort of bird? Was there something that, you know, went in front of them, an animal?
It seems unlikely in a downtown airport like that. But those are all scenarios that the NTSB will look at.
S. O'BRIEN: Let me ask you a question about the black boxes. We're told that the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) reports that the black boxes will be recovered, the voice and data. Is that standard on all private jets?
I mean, this is a, we mentioned, 13 passengers, potentially, or could be seated on this plane. Or 13 I think total it might be, 13 people, including the crew members, maybe. Would there -- do you have to have black boxes on those -- on these kinds of planes?
M. O'BRIEN: It's a murky area of changing regulation. And the short answer is that the bigger the corporate jets, the more likely you are to have those boxes on board.
It also has something to do with how those planes are flown, if they are in a charter operation or if they are owned by the people who are flying. In this case, I believe it was owned directly by the company that was using it. So they would fall under a different set of rules than somebody who was actually having an airplane for hire.
In any case, this is a relatively new airplane. And I think we can -- we can probably -- there have been reports this morning that they had both the flight data recorder, which covers all those instrument issues, and also the cockpit voice recorder, which in a case like this can be perhaps more telling. That actually captures the conversations of the pilots as they went down that runway.
S. O'BRIEN: No question that the FAA go team is going to want to get a look at those two things. Miles O'Brien for us this morning. Miles, thank you. Of course we're going to ask you stick around and stand by for us as we continue to cover this story. It's one of our top stories this morning.
HEMMER: That it is. And two other notes here as we continue to scan The Associated Press wires about this story.
We've been reporting about emergency management saying that they were in the warehouse conducting a "rescue operation." The AP is also quoting a state police trooper as saying that "you act on that assumption until you know otherwise."
And one other eyewitness saying, "Usually we see these planes lift off in the air, but this one just went straight, started scratching the ground. There were sparks shooting out all over the place." That's according to a psychologist who is a neighbor in the area. We'll get back to this story in Teterboro, New Jersey, in a moment here.
But first, want to turn our attention now back overseas. Vatican sources say Pope John Paul II spent a peaceful night in the hospital and that he'll remain there for the next few days.
The leader of the world's one billion Catholics rushed from the Vatican late last night with breathing problems. He's 84 years old. He's been suffering from the flu. And while the Vatican says the condition for the pope required urgent medical care, officials say Pope John Paul II is not in the intensive care unit and that there is no cause for alarm.
CNN Vatican analyst John Allen now joins us by way of Rome with more there.
John, what have you heard lately? The Vatican has said what about his condition?
JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Hi, Bill.
Well, basically, they are trying to strike every reassuring note that they can. What they've told us this morning, as you say, he passed a relatively restful night. This morning, he met with some of his top aides from the Vatican.
He was lucid, engaged. He had a little bit of breakfast, drank a little bit of coffee, and actually participated in a mass in his hospital room. They're indicating they expect him to make a full and speedy recovery. And this morning, a senior Vatican official told me they still very much hope that John Paul will be able next Tuesday to meet with Condoleezza Rice when she's in town on a state visit. So they're trying to tell us they think he's going to pull through and pull through in relatively good shape.
HEMMER: John, based on your history of covering this man and covering the Vatican, what is the reason that we understand as to why he would be taken to the hospital at this point, knowing that he has not been in the best of health for the past several years?
ALLEN: Well, you know, first of all, this is unusual. I mean, this is the ninth time he's been hospitalized in Gemelli. But this is the first time he's been rushed there on an emergency basis in an ambulance.
So that obviously indicates that something serious was going on. And I think basically the reality is, you've got a man who's almost 84, he'll be 85 in May, he has Parkinson's Disease and a number of other elements. And what that means is that when his breathing becomes labored, that very easily could become something more serious.
And I think they wanted to have state-of-the-art technology and all the medical care at their disposal to try to intervene, should a real crisis have developed. What they're telling us this morning is that real crisis never took place.
HEMMER: Yes. The Vatican sometimes can be tight as a drum when it come to information. How open have they been on this so far?
ALLEN: Well, you know, by historical standards, you know, if you compare it to the way they used to be, where, you know, the saying always was, "The pope is never sick until he's dead," by those standards, they have been relatively forthcoming. I mean, we got two bulletins late last night, we got another one this morning. And the papal spokesperson, Joaquin Navarro-Valls, has briefly taken questions from the press.
And they've given us a few more details about his condition than has often been the case in the past. However, you know, by -- by other standards of comparison, if this had been the president of the United States, or the prime minister of Britain, where you would have hourly medical updates, certainly, Bill, we don't have that kind of information at our disposal.
HEMMER: Yes. What -- this is one question that has persisted throughout this story. And really, it goes back for the past several years. If the pope's health declines so much that he was unable to continue with his job and his duties, what would the Vatican do? Does he step aside? Does he say, "OK, I'll resign," and then the college of cardinals go about the search for the next pope?
ALLEN: Well, the basic answer, Bill, is that the code of canon law -- it's a massive code of law for the Catholic Church -- contains no procedure for what to do in the case of papal incapacitation. I mean, there is an article in there, Canon 332, that would allow for a papal resignation. But it assumes that the pope is lucid and that he's doing it of his own free mind and will.
What happens in a case in which he is -- he is out and unable to communicate his wishes simply is a great unknown. But I think what's happened, Bill, in the last few years is that as John Paul's physical condition has worsened, his capacity to be engaged in the day-to-day business of running the church has already become quite limited. And much of that slack has already been picked up by a senior aide.
So, in a case like this, where he's -- he's down for a few days and unable to take part in much business, I mean, the system already is set up so that it will continue more or less as normal. But the question you're asking is one to which there simply is no clear answer.
HEMMER: Here's an answer for you, or maybe you can give it to us. What explains why this man is such a fighter?
ALLEN: Well, look, I think it's a complicated thing. I think part of it is the fact, you know, there is that sort of Polish stubbornness about him, you know, that unwilling -- that undaunted unwillingness, you know, to be cowed.
I think part of it is his personal biography. This is a man who saw a lot of life's hard knocks early on.
He lost his mother as a small child. He lost his brother and then his father when he was an early adult. And he was essentially on his own, an orphan in the world.
He lived through the period of Nazi occupation of Poland. But part of it also is his deep personal spirituality. This is a man of rock-solid faith who believes that his destiny is not simply in the hands of fate, but it's in the hands of god.
And when that's your belief system, and you believe it in every fiber of your being, I think that gives you a resilience, frankly, that most of us don't have. And I think we're seeing that today.
HEMMER: Thank you, John. John Allen there from Rome with the latest on the pope -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: The status of the pope's health, of course, is just one of three big stories that we're following this morning. We're also going to talk to you about the State of the Union Address that happens this evening with President Bush.
And we're following breaking news out of New Jersey this morning. A fiery small jet crash at Teterboro Airport. Police say there are fatalities. We're going to have more details as they come in.
Also ahead this morning, Carlos Watson previewing the State of the Union Address.
Stay with us, everybody. AMERICAN MORNING continues right after this short break.
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CARLOS WATSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: ... be clear about your congressional agenda.
Goal number two is really talk about the heart of that agenda, which is the Social Security reform plan that he has, and really move the public closer to where he is. A, feeling like that there is a crisis that needs to be addressed. And B, that he's got a clear plan to do it.
And then last, but not least, not only does he need to rally the public, but it will be important for him to energize members of his own team. A lot of people when they hear that, they think, gosh, the president is going to have a tough time with the Senate. I really think in many cases he'll have a harder time with members of the House, especially on the issue of Social Security.
HEMMER: When it comes to Social Security, though, Carlos, we're told that more details will come out tonight. And certainly, that's going to be a major focus for this speech. Outside of Social Security, what else do you look for on the domestic side?
WATSON: You'll hear a series of other things. You'll certainly hear about tort reform, which has been a big issue for the president, lawsuits and capping the damages there. You'll hear more about education. You'll certainly hear about immigration as well.
And all these, as well as several other issues, will be put under the rubric of the opportunity society. That's a phrase the president has used a good bit and kind of represents his domestic agenda.
HEMMER: All right. Let's go overseas now. Iraq will be a focus. We are three or four days removed from the elections on Sunday. How does he frame this issue tonight, Carlos?
WATSON: You know, he'll actually use the international success that arguably the Iraqi elections represent. Maybe some eight million people having voted, which is pretty meaningful there, and say that he took a risk, he gambled, it paid off. And consequently, we should do the same kind of thing domestically here.
So he'll link the success in Iraq with what he believes we should do here domestically in terms of Social Security and say, come with me again, take a chance, it will pay off in a significant way.
HEMMER: Well, clearly, it's an important speech. It sets the tone at the beginning of the second term. Talk about style, talk about presence, something you call the three Cs.
WATSON: The three Cs, the importance of being clear, concise and compelling. You remember after the inaugural address, a lot of people criticized the president. In fact, some of the president's people, including his own father, had to go back and clarify what the president meant. This time around, he's got to be particularly clear about his legislative agenda.
In terms of being concise, we've seen a number of president, including Bill Clinton, become more verbose, if you will, as their state of the unions went along. President Clinton started his first state of the union -- or his first message, rather -- at 63 minutes, ended up at 89 minutes with the final one. The president hopefully won't do that this time.
And then last but not least, he's got to be compelling, particularly again on the issue of Social Security. He's got to make not only the public, but again, members of his own team feel confident that he's got a plan that will not only have policy benefits but political benefits.
HEMMER: Carlos, thanks. You'll be watching tonight. So will we. We'll have you back tomorrow morning and we'll check out the three Cs then. OK?
WATSON: Look forward to seeing you.
HEMMER: Thank you, Carlos.
Stay tuned later tonight for our live coverage of that address in D.C. Special coverage starts at 8:00 Eastern, 5:00 on the West Coast. And tomorrow, Soledad will be live down in Washington with our coverage starting, as it does every morning, at 7:00 a.m. Eastern Time.
S. O'BRIEN: And, of course, we're still following that breaking news out of New Jersey this morning. Two people missing, 11 others hurt. The very latest developments, plus word from a hospital spokesperson just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
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S. O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody. We have been covering, of course, this breaking news out of Teterboro, New Jersey, the plane crash there. Let's get right to the phone and Jane Ellis, who is the spokeswoman for Holy Name Hospital. That's just about five miles northeast of Teterboro.
Ms. Ellis, thanks for being with us. Appreciate it. Why don't you tell me when you started to first start see patients come in.
JANE ELLIS, HOLY NAME HOSPITAL: At 8:00 this morning we had our first patient present, a 22-year-old female. She has minor injuries, is still being evaluated, but is in stable condition.
At approximately 8:30, we had our second person present in the ER, a 35-year-old male who, again, has minor injuries, but he has been covered in fuel oil. So he is in the process now of being decontaminated.
S. O'BRIEN: Are you expecting more patients to arrive at the hospital momentarily? ELLIS: I believe it's still unknown as to what actually was going on in the building when the plane hit. So we don't know whether we're going to receive more victims or not.
S. O'BRIEN: Let's break it down a little more. You say the young woman had minor injuries first. Can you be more specific about the extent of her injuries, what they were specifically?
ELLIS: Not at this time. She's still being evaluated.
S. O'BRIEN: Do you have any idea whether those were people who were inside the plane or motorists?
ELLIS: One of the patients we received, the young woman, was a flight attendant.
S. O'BRIEN: What is being done for these two at this point? If their injuries are minor, are you expected to release them in a few hours, later in the day?
ELLIS: As I said, both of the persons we have in our emergency room are still in the evaluation mode. And once it is ascertained as to the degree of their injury, then it will be determined as to whether or not they will be treated and released today.
S. O'BRIEN: Ms. Ellis, how does it usually work? Would you get notification if you were expecting many more patients to be coming in, let's say...
ELLIS: Absolutely.
S. O'BRIEN: So potentially they would give you the head's up to expect another dozen people to come in?
ELLIS: Absolutely. Correct.
S. O'BRIEN: You have not gotten that word yet?
ELLIS: At this point in time, we have not received word of any more injuries on the scene other than what is being touted on the news.
S. O'BRIEN: Jane Ellis is a spokeswoman for Holy Name Hospital, just about five miles northeast of where this crash occurred, Teterboro Airport, in Teterboro, New Jersey. Ms. Ellis, thank you very much. Appreciate your time and your update for us.
HEMMER: While you two were talking, there is Hackensack University Medical Center in the same area. Five others apparently injured taken to that particular facility. No word on the condition, but there may be a press conference next hour from that medical facility. So when that happens, we'll bring it to you.
S. O'BRIEN: We were talking earlier this morning about the "Question of the Day." Let's get back to Jack with that. JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Before we do, I've gotten a lot of e- mail from private pilots and people watching the coverage of this. Many of them pointing out that those thrust reversers are clearly visible as having been deployed.
And the other point that they make, and I think is probably a valid one, is that you were talking about what the takeoff speed of this airplane is, 160 or 170 miles an hour. Based on those pictures, there's no way it's going nearly that fast when it hit that building. At 170 miles an hour, that plane would have gone clear through that warehouse, not stopped at barely knocking down the front wall.
S. O'BRIEN: Right. Just the nose is going through.
CAFFERTY: So if -- if the thrust reversers, in fact, had been deployed, and if our speculation about the takeoff speed versus the speed at which it was traveling when it impacted the building are correct, it's very possible that that pilot made a split-second decision, trying to abort the takeoff and maybe saved a whole bunch of lives.
S. O'BRIEN: We will -- we will know much more later of course.
CAFFERTY: The question of the day is about our old friend Bill Clinton. U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan has asked the former president to head up the tsunami reconstruction relief efforts as a special envoy. Rumors have been speculating that Clinton may be next in line for the top post at the U.N., that of secretary-general, when Kofi Annan's term is up next year.
Already there are opponents. Jesse Helms think it's a terrible idea. Fired off a letter, saying the move would be "a tragic mistake."
But the question we were having a little fun with here this morning was, would former President Bill Clinton make a good candidate to be U.N. secretary-general?
Pamela writes from Michigan, "With all the world's been through in the last four years, President Clinton, who is like a rock star around the world and known for putting people first, would be a great asset for the Bush administration as U.N. secretary-general."
Sandy has a different view in Chesterfield, South Carolina. "You know, I had no use for this man when he was in office. I have no use for him now. I just wish he'd take his clueless wife and go home."
HEMMER: Oh.
CAFFERTY: Cathy in Athens, Tennessee, "Yes, Bill Clinton's probably the greatest speaker we ever had in the Oval Office. He is a people person, the world loved him when he was in office, the world still loves him, and that would make him a fantastic candidate."
Jerry in Alpharetta, Georgia, "To continue the role of the U.N. in the world, someone inept in diplomacy, unable to make the difficult decisions, willing to bow to any interest that's backed by cash, able to talk in cliches and totally non-committal with the important issues facing the world, but willing to take credit for others' work is what is needed to run that body. The name Jacques Chirac comes to mind."
And Greg in Westville, Nova Scotia, "Good morning, Jack. Yes, Bill Clinton's a very capable, intelligent man. But stop mentioning Bill Clinton's name and 'secretary' in the same sentence unless you want to see Hillary fainting again."
HEMMER: What is he, 58? We've had former presidents -- Howard Taft, Supreme Court justice.
CAFFERTY: But yes, of course he just had the quadruple-bypass surgery. He looks like he's feeling pretty well, and the doctors say he's doing all right, but I don't know how ambitious I'd be to take on a major undertaking. That would be one, obviously, leader of the U.N., with that kind of health situation in my past.
O'BRIEN: I don't know, I think President Clinton's pretty ambitious in that sort of way.
CAFFERTY: Well, very concerned about his legacy, too.
O'BRIEN: Absolutely.
CAFFERTY: Must not lose sight of that.
O'BRIEN: It's an interesting question. Thanks, Jack.
More on the breaking story out of New Jersey this morning, that small jet crashing into a warehouse near Teterboro, Airport. Twelve people, we're told, are onboard. Police say two people missing. We've going to get more details and we'll bring them to you as we get them. That's just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
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