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Breaking News: Pope In Grave Condition; Schiavo Family Dispute

Aired April 01, 2005 - 07:31   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. It's 7:31 here in New York City. I'm Bill Hemmer.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Carol Costello, in for Soledad this morning. Good morning to you.

HEMMER: We want to get right back to our top story now, the pope facing the possibility of death, said to be suffering from unstable blood pressure, a condition related to an overwhelming infection. The Vatican describes him as being in very serious condition, surrounded by a team of doctors at the papal residence. Also, the pope is said to be conscious and lucid. A Vatican spokesman saying the pope asked this morning for an aide to read to him from the Bible.

We want to go straight away to Rome and Jim Bittermann once again.

And, Jim, when will we get another update on the pope's condition from inside the Vatican?

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It turns out, Bill, that, in fact, what we were hearing about, we heard there was another medical bulletin coming out. In fact, it was just a written version, a written communique, reflecting the same remarks that Navarro-Valls, the papal spokesman, had made to the press earlier. So really, not another new bulletin coming out that we know of at this point.

One of the things that should be added to what you were saying there is the pope also asked to have read to him this morning is the Way of the Cross. Now, this is the biblical account of Christ's final hours on earth as he was going off to be crucified, and it is a tale of much suffering. And the pope asked to have that read to him, it being a Friday and apparently the pope on Fridays, normally, does perform the Stations of the Cross. But he wanted to have it read to him as he, himself, is suffering.

One other thing I should add, Bill, is that another thing that's going on at the Vatican is that the key players for papal transition have gathered at the pope's bedside this morning. The doctors and nurses, of course, are at the pope's immediate side.

But very close at-hand are also Cardinal Angelo Sudano, for instance, the secretary of state. He's the No. 2 at the Vatican. His No. 2, Leonardo Sandri, who, in fact, is the person who takes charge of the day to day running of the Vatican. And then there's also Cardinal Ruini. He is the vicar of Rome. And, perhaps most significantly, he's the person who would actually make the announcement that the pope had died. He is also there this morning.

So, it's not an indication necessarily that the pope is about to die, but certainly the key players are in place at the Vatican if the pope's health turns worse -- Bill.

HEMMER: If it does turn worse, Jim, and if he requires life support, do we know or understand what the pope's wishes would be for that life support?

BITTERMANN: Well, I think we know pretty clearly. In fact, the pope himself, just last year, in a message to a congress about death and dying and the care of patients in a vegetative state, said the following. He said: "The administration of water and food, even when provided by artificial means, always represents a natural means of preserving life. Its use should be considered morally obligatory until it's attained its proper finality."

So, in other words, the pope was saying to that message that it's a perfectly normal way to maintain life, as the Vatican said, by the way, in the Terri Schiavo case, that, in fact, it's a perfectly normal to maintain life and that it's morally obligatory to maintain life with means like artificial food and water, hydration and food tubes in place -- Bill.

HEMMER: And so important to reflect on that theme, too. We shall throughout the morning here. Jim, thanks for that in Rome.

Earlier today also, a Vatican official coming to the microphone, saying he has never seen the pope like this before. That's going over a period of 26 years. Adding that the pontiff's situation is stable but still very serious.

Robert Moynihan is the editor-in-chief of "Inside the Vatican." He's my guest now in Washington.

And let's start with your feeling about this morning and about what you're hearing out of Vatican City. What are your thoughts about the man at this point?

ROBERT MOYNIHAN, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "INSIDE THE VATICAN": Well, I had noted a couple of things I wanted to say. On the health question, when Navarro-Valls, the pope's secretary, weeps, the matter is very grave. He has never done this in my memory.

Second, the pope's decision to stay in the Vatican and not go back to the hospital is consistent, is coherent with a final phase. He doesn't want to be back in the hospital.

Third, this pontiff still is very clear in mind. He seems to be dying, as it were, from the feet up. First, he couldn't walk. He was always in a wheelchair. He was always in the pope-mobile. He had a hip problem. Then because he wasn't moving very much, he had the circulation problem. This also contributed to the infection in his urinary tract, because he wasn't moving his body. And then he had difficulty with his lungs. He couldn't breathe a month and a half ago. His muscles are tightening up in his chest. Then he couldn't speak. And now, he can still think and pray, but he can hardly move.

On the ethics of the thing, I think the Vatican makes a distinction between two things. One is food and water, which must always be provided, and it was reprehensible that it was not provided for Terri Schiavo.

On the other hand, things like oxygen tents and exceptional means of continuing to force the body to keep going might not be considered things that the pope would have to have.

And then the big picture here is this is the 264th successor of Peter. So, we are facing a transition now from the man. He was the third-longest pontiff. He dominated the last part of the 20th century. In some sense, if he passes, we are, I would think, saying that in April of 2005, the 20th century comes to an end with his passing.

HEMMER: Robert, we have spoken off and on for the past two months about this man, his life and legacy. I have yet to hear you speak this way until this morning.

MOYNIHAN: Well, I was with the pope's secretary about 10 days ago in Rome, in the room next to the pope. And I spoke with him for an hour. And I looked in his eyes, and he did not seem worried. And I was under the impression, and even now would not exclude that the pope might recover with antibiotics, if he can heal this fever. But he's under such strain right now with the heart seeming now to give in that I'm very worried.

And I've been in contact with a friend of mine, who spoke with one of the pope's closest personal friends, Wanda Patalska (ph), a doctor from Poland. And he said she is extremely worried. So I'm worried this morning.

HEMMER: You heard Jim Bittermann's report from Rome before we introduced you this morning. Also what goes along with what Jim was trying to relate to us was a statement he made recently about the chronically ill. The pope saying they are prisoners of their condition, retain their human dignity in all its fullness. Is there a certain irony right now, when we consider his condition today and reflect back on Wednesday of this week when he came to that window and clearly was struggling with the ability to speak and stay there for even a period of four minutes?

MOYNIHAN: Well, there is irony. His body is betraying him. His will to go on is strong. and I think he's trying to assess how grave is the physical condition. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.

A few weeks ago, Cardinal Meisner (ph) visited him in the hospital and led all of us to believe that he was so well that he was likely to travel this August to Germany for a World Youth Day, where there will be several hundred thousand young people, even if he couldn't speak. I think these latest medical problems suggest that that may not be possible. HEMMER: The most traveled pope in history. And perhaps he is choosing today to remain in Vatican City, closest to God at this point in his life. Robert Moynihan, editor of "Inside the Vatican," thanks again.

Let's get to the headlines now. Kelly Wallace watching a couple of those stories this morning.

Kelly -- good morning to you on a Friday.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Bill. And good morning, everyone.

Here are some other stories "Now in the News."

President Bush is promising quick action after a scathing report about pre-war intelligence concerning Iraq. A presidential commission determined U.S. intelligence agencies were -- quote -- "dead wrong" about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. The panel also said the U.S. still knows -- quote -- "disturbingly little" about the nuclear programs of many its adversaries and offered recommendations for change.

Sandy Berger, who was the national security adviser to former President Clinton, is expected -- excuse me --to plead guilty today to taking classified documents. The Justice department says it's part of a plea agreement. Berger has admitted to leaving the National Archives in 2003 with copies of documents about the government's anti- terror efforts, but denies criminal wrongdoing. If a judge accepts the plea, it could spare Berger from possible jail time.

The palace in Monaco says there is only a very slim chance the ailing Prince Rainier will recover. The 81-year-old Prince Rainier, who was Europe's longest reigning monarch, has been hospitalized for more than three weeks for heart, lung and kidney problems. His son, Prince Albert, has already taken over royal duties.

And a former Playboy model and actress in New York, Bridgett Marks (ph), is waiting to be reunited with her twin daughters today after winning back custody of them. You may recall this story. Video from last year showing an emotional moment, the 5-year-old girls being taken away from their mother following a controversial ruling giving custody to their father, casino mogul John Ailesworth (ph). An appellate court unanimously overturned the decision Thursday, giving custody back to Marks (ph). Ailesworth (ph) may appeal to the state supreme court.

That gets you caught up on other news. Back to Bill and Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Thank you, Kelly.

Let's head down to Atlanta to check in with Chad.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: In just a moment, we'll get you more on the breaking news out of Rome. Pope John Paul II is now said to be in very grave condition. We'll have the latest for you straight ahead.

HEMMER: Also anger in the aftermath of Terri Schiavo's death. Is a family adviser fanning the flames? We'll talk to him about that very topic after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Good morning, once again. If you're just joining us, we are watching the Vatican very closely throughout the morning here to note any change in the pope's condition. For now, Pope John Paul II is said to be in very serious condition, and the Vatican press office is staying open during this crisis. And many reporters and analysts already today from Rome have noted that that's significant. Oftentimes, they'll close shop in mid-afternoon. Not the case now. So, we will not leave that story for long. We're watching it quite closely from the Vatican.

COSTELLO: Certainly not.

Turning now to the death of Terri Schiavo, it brings to an end what is likely the longest, most bitter and most litigated right-to- die dispute in U.S. history. But there doesn't appear to be an end in sight for the battle between Terri's parents and her husband.

Father Frank Pavone has been an adviser to Terri's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler. He was also in the room Thursday, minutes before Terri died. He's my guest now from Pinellas Park, Florida.

Good morning, Father.

FATHER FRANK PAVONE, SCHINDLER FAMILY SUPPORTER: Good morning. It's good to be with you.

COSTELLO: Thank you for being with us. Father Pavone, I want you to listen to what Michael Schiavo's attorney, George Felos, said yesterday right after Terri Schiavo died.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE FELOS, MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S ATTORNEY: That Father Pavone, instead of words of reconciliation, instead of words of healing, instead of words of compassion or understanding, which you might expect from a spiritual person, we had a platform for ideological agenda. We found that very counterproductive and disquieting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: He's accusing you of stirring up trouble in the midst of pain. Can you honestly say he's wrong?

PAVONE: Oh, he certainly is. In fact, he's using a classic tactic here of demonizing the opposition. Mr. Felos is sugar-coating what is nothing less than a murder. Terri Schiavo was murdered. And the family agrees with that.

The point is that this is not just about a clash between two families; it's a clash between two philosophies. And George Felos and Michael Schiavo have a definite philosophy that people like Terri can be disposed of. This battle will, in fact, continue. And I have reached out with compassion to Michael. I don't blame George Felos for not having heard every talk that I've given or interview that I've conducted.

COSTELLO: Well, Father, it's interesting...

PAVONE: But I...

COSTELLO: It's interesting to say that you've reached out to Michael Schiavo.

PAVONE: Yes.

COSTELLO: And it's interesting you also said that the other side was demonizing your side. I want to play something for you now that you said on Wednesday night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAVONE: If I speak to Michael, if I speak to Judge Greer, if I speak to any of these people, I will not hesitate to call them exactly what they are: murderers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Isn't that demonizing the other side?

PAVONE: It's accurately describing what happened to Terri. There are two things here taking place at the same time.

On the one hand, we reach out to the person. And I will sit down and talk with Michael, with Mr. Felos, with anybody at any time.

But secondly, when we talk, we have to accurately describe what's happening. We can't -- to avoid bitterness is one thing. To avoid the truth is something else entirely.

This is a very, very difficult debate, obviously, when we're talking about matters of life and death. And the road we have to take here is at the same time facing honestly what's going on and not closing off, not looking at the other person as the enemy. When I say they are murders...

COSTELLO: Well...

PAVONE: ... what I'm saying is the act that they've committed here is one of murder.

COSTELLO: I don't think Michael Schiavo sees that distinction, frankly. But you were with Bobby Schindler in Terri's room yesterday right before she died.

PAVONE: Yes.

COSTELLO: Did your presence there cause Bobby Schindler to miss the final moments of his sister's life?

PAVONE: No. What happened was Bobby and I and Suzanne were praying in the room for about an hour and a half yesterday morning. And then about 10 minutes to 9:00, we were told by the hospice that they were going to conduct an assessment; that we had to leave the room. This was not unusual. This was the normal pattern of events.

And then we were told that Michael would be coming in after that. And at that point, Bobby became concerned that he wouldn't be able to get back in the room until after she died. And the reason he was concerned is that that's what happened the previous night. Bobby and I were up all night waiting for the word from Michael that we could go back in. We had been in there up until midnight. And then they said, well, as soon as he's finished with his visit, you can go back in. And we weren't let back in until 7:30 in the morning.

So, Bobby was looking at what had just happened, and said, "Is this now going to happen again that I'm not going to be able to get in for seven hours?"

COSTELLO: But can you not understand why Michael Schiavo might not have wanted you back in that room after all that you've said about him?

PAVONE: Well, Michael not being in the room at the same time as the family is something that was in place long before I was involved. But Bobby said to the officer, who then communicated this to Michael, that he'd be willing to be in the room with Michael. Just Bobby, not myself. And that reconciliation, unfortunately, could not occur at that last moment.

COSTELLO: We'll have to leave it.

PAVONE: Certainly there are -- OK.

COSTELLO: Father Frank Pavone, spiritual adviser to the Schindler family, thank you.

George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney, is our guest in the next hour.

HEMMER: Carol, 10 minutes before the hour now. More on that breaking news out of the Vatican after a commercial break here. Once again, if you're just joining us today, the health of Pope John Paul II has taken a turn for the worse. The latest on his condition after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: The headline from the Vatican, the pope's condition is very grave, keeping a very close watch on the news out of the Vatican, the pope's condition. We'll get back to that in a moment.

First, though, we want to check in with Andy Serwer, "Minding Your Business", on a Friday morning and a highly-anticipated jobs report due out later today, that four-letter word. Good morning.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: That's right. Good morning to you, Bill.

At 8:30 Eastern, the jobs report for the month of March will be out. Economists are looking for an addition of 220,000 jobs that month, looking for the unemployment rate to dip to 5.3 percent. That would be lower than February's, which was 5.4.

The job growth is a little bit less anticipated in March than February, but still anything over 200,000 is good. Anything over 150,000 is good. You can see how volatile we have been over the past 12 months.

As far as the stock market goes, yesterday a down day. The price of oil wreaking havoc on the markets as you can see here. And we'll be talking more about oil and how stocks did in the first quarter a little bit later in the program.

HEMMER: That story is not going away for some time, too, with oil.

SERWER: That's right.

HEMMER: Thanks, Andy.

SERWER: You're welcome.

COSTELLO: And gas prices are still going up as a result.

SERWER: Yes.

COSTELLO: And interesting "Question of the Day" this morning.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: I'd like to think so. Thank you, Carol.

Terri Schiavo's life is over, but the national debate she triggered is not. It pitted Congress and the White House against federal and state courts, and elevated end-of-life decisions into the national consciousness. Some states are already considering adopting more restrictive end-of-life measures. With continued advances in medical technology and longer life spans, Americans will increasingly be faced with this very debate.

The question is this: How will history look at the Terri Schiavo story?

D.W. in Crescent City writes: "I doubt the Schiavo case will have a significant historical impact. It was just a sad family feud, which was seized upon by the kind of people who never saw a TV camera they didn't fall in love with."

Steve in Florida writes: "I think it will be remembered as a very sad commentary of, if nothing else, Florida law. The judges could only rule based on the current law there, which is obviously flawed."

Paul in Pennsylvania: "Religious dogma will ultimately give way to economic imperatives. Society will conclude that keeping brain- dead people artificially alive for 15 years is a grave disservice to the patient and to those who must pay the bill."

Teresa in New York: "History will be kind to those whose hearts were genuine and critical of those who used her for political gain."

And Robert in Washington writes: "I can't say for most, but it has made us aware of what can happen if we don't have our wishes in writing. In detail, we have written our living will so there will be no dispute."

HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.

Let's get a break again here. More in a moment, the breaking news from the Vatican. Pope John Paul II's health is take taking a dramatic turn for the worse. Live back to Rome after this on AMERICAN MORNING.

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Aired April 1, 2005 - 07:31   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. It's 7:31 here in New York City. I'm Bill Hemmer.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Carol Costello, in for Soledad this morning. Good morning to you.

HEMMER: We want to get right back to our top story now, the pope facing the possibility of death, said to be suffering from unstable blood pressure, a condition related to an overwhelming infection. The Vatican describes him as being in very serious condition, surrounded by a team of doctors at the papal residence. Also, the pope is said to be conscious and lucid. A Vatican spokesman saying the pope asked this morning for an aide to read to him from the Bible.

We want to go straight away to Rome and Jim Bittermann once again.

And, Jim, when will we get another update on the pope's condition from inside the Vatican?

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It turns out, Bill, that, in fact, what we were hearing about, we heard there was another medical bulletin coming out. In fact, it was just a written version, a written communique, reflecting the same remarks that Navarro-Valls, the papal spokesman, had made to the press earlier. So really, not another new bulletin coming out that we know of at this point.

One of the things that should be added to what you were saying there is the pope also asked to have read to him this morning is the Way of the Cross. Now, this is the biblical account of Christ's final hours on earth as he was going off to be crucified, and it is a tale of much suffering. And the pope asked to have that read to him, it being a Friday and apparently the pope on Fridays, normally, does perform the Stations of the Cross. But he wanted to have it read to him as he, himself, is suffering.

One other thing I should add, Bill, is that another thing that's going on at the Vatican is that the key players for papal transition have gathered at the pope's bedside this morning. The doctors and nurses, of course, are at the pope's immediate side.

But very close at-hand are also Cardinal Angelo Sudano, for instance, the secretary of state. He's the No. 2 at the Vatican. His No. 2, Leonardo Sandri, who, in fact, is the person who takes charge of the day to day running of the Vatican. And then there's also Cardinal Ruini. He is the vicar of Rome. And, perhaps most significantly, he's the person who would actually make the announcement that the pope had died. He is also there this morning.

So, it's not an indication necessarily that the pope is about to die, but certainly the key players are in place at the Vatican if the pope's health turns worse -- Bill.

HEMMER: If it does turn worse, Jim, and if he requires life support, do we know or understand what the pope's wishes would be for that life support?

BITTERMANN: Well, I think we know pretty clearly. In fact, the pope himself, just last year, in a message to a congress about death and dying and the care of patients in a vegetative state, said the following. He said: "The administration of water and food, even when provided by artificial means, always represents a natural means of preserving life. Its use should be considered morally obligatory until it's attained its proper finality."

So, in other words, the pope was saying to that message that it's a perfectly normal way to maintain life, as the Vatican said, by the way, in the Terri Schiavo case, that, in fact, it's a perfectly normal to maintain life and that it's morally obligatory to maintain life with means like artificial food and water, hydration and food tubes in place -- Bill.

HEMMER: And so important to reflect on that theme, too. We shall throughout the morning here. Jim, thanks for that in Rome.

Earlier today also, a Vatican official coming to the microphone, saying he has never seen the pope like this before. That's going over a period of 26 years. Adding that the pontiff's situation is stable but still very serious.

Robert Moynihan is the editor-in-chief of "Inside the Vatican." He's my guest now in Washington.

And let's start with your feeling about this morning and about what you're hearing out of Vatican City. What are your thoughts about the man at this point?

ROBERT MOYNIHAN, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "INSIDE THE VATICAN": Well, I had noted a couple of things I wanted to say. On the health question, when Navarro-Valls, the pope's secretary, weeps, the matter is very grave. He has never done this in my memory.

Second, the pope's decision to stay in the Vatican and not go back to the hospital is consistent, is coherent with a final phase. He doesn't want to be back in the hospital.

Third, this pontiff still is very clear in mind. He seems to be dying, as it were, from the feet up. First, he couldn't walk. He was always in a wheelchair. He was always in the pope-mobile. He had a hip problem. Then because he wasn't moving very much, he had the circulation problem. This also contributed to the infection in his urinary tract, because he wasn't moving his body. And then he had difficulty with his lungs. He couldn't breathe a month and a half ago. His muscles are tightening up in his chest. Then he couldn't speak. And now, he can still think and pray, but he can hardly move.

On the ethics of the thing, I think the Vatican makes a distinction between two things. One is food and water, which must always be provided, and it was reprehensible that it was not provided for Terri Schiavo.

On the other hand, things like oxygen tents and exceptional means of continuing to force the body to keep going might not be considered things that the pope would have to have.

And then the big picture here is this is the 264th successor of Peter. So, we are facing a transition now from the man. He was the third-longest pontiff. He dominated the last part of the 20th century. In some sense, if he passes, we are, I would think, saying that in April of 2005, the 20th century comes to an end with his passing.

HEMMER: Robert, we have spoken off and on for the past two months about this man, his life and legacy. I have yet to hear you speak this way until this morning.

MOYNIHAN: Well, I was with the pope's secretary about 10 days ago in Rome, in the room next to the pope. And I spoke with him for an hour. And I looked in his eyes, and he did not seem worried. And I was under the impression, and even now would not exclude that the pope might recover with antibiotics, if he can heal this fever. But he's under such strain right now with the heart seeming now to give in that I'm very worried.

And I've been in contact with a friend of mine, who spoke with one of the pope's closest personal friends, Wanda Patalska (ph), a doctor from Poland. And he said she is extremely worried. So I'm worried this morning.

HEMMER: You heard Jim Bittermann's report from Rome before we introduced you this morning. Also what goes along with what Jim was trying to relate to us was a statement he made recently about the chronically ill. The pope saying they are prisoners of their condition, retain their human dignity in all its fullness. Is there a certain irony right now, when we consider his condition today and reflect back on Wednesday of this week when he came to that window and clearly was struggling with the ability to speak and stay there for even a period of four minutes?

MOYNIHAN: Well, there is irony. His body is betraying him. His will to go on is strong. and I think he's trying to assess how grave is the physical condition. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.

A few weeks ago, Cardinal Meisner (ph) visited him in the hospital and led all of us to believe that he was so well that he was likely to travel this August to Germany for a World Youth Day, where there will be several hundred thousand young people, even if he couldn't speak. I think these latest medical problems suggest that that may not be possible. HEMMER: The most traveled pope in history. And perhaps he is choosing today to remain in Vatican City, closest to God at this point in his life. Robert Moynihan, editor of "Inside the Vatican," thanks again.

Let's get to the headlines now. Kelly Wallace watching a couple of those stories this morning.

Kelly -- good morning to you on a Friday.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Bill. And good morning, everyone.

Here are some other stories "Now in the News."

President Bush is promising quick action after a scathing report about pre-war intelligence concerning Iraq. A presidential commission determined U.S. intelligence agencies were -- quote -- "dead wrong" about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. The panel also said the U.S. still knows -- quote -- "disturbingly little" about the nuclear programs of many its adversaries and offered recommendations for change.

Sandy Berger, who was the national security adviser to former President Clinton, is expected -- excuse me --to plead guilty today to taking classified documents. The Justice department says it's part of a plea agreement. Berger has admitted to leaving the National Archives in 2003 with copies of documents about the government's anti- terror efforts, but denies criminal wrongdoing. If a judge accepts the plea, it could spare Berger from possible jail time.

The palace in Monaco says there is only a very slim chance the ailing Prince Rainier will recover. The 81-year-old Prince Rainier, who was Europe's longest reigning monarch, has been hospitalized for more than three weeks for heart, lung and kidney problems. His son, Prince Albert, has already taken over royal duties.

And a former Playboy model and actress in New York, Bridgett Marks (ph), is waiting to be reunited with her twin daughters today after winning back custody of them. You may recall this story. Video from last year showing an emotional moment, the 5-year-old girls being taken away from their mother following a controversial ruling giving custody to their father, casino mogul John Ailesworth (ph). An appellate court unanimously overturned the decision Thursday, giving custody back to Marks (ph). Ailesworth (ph) may appeal to the state supreme court.

That gets you caught up on other news. Back to Bill and Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Thank you, Kelly.

Let's head down to Atlanta to check in with Chad.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: In just a moment, we'll get you more on the breaking news out of Rome. Pope John Paul II is now said to be in very grave condition. We'll have the latest for you straight ahead.

HEMMER: Also anger in the aftermath of Terri Schiavo's death. Is a family adviser fanning the flames? We'll talk to him about that very topic after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Good morning, once again. If you're just joining us, we are watching the Vatican very closely throughout the morning here to note any change in the pope's condition. For now, Pope John Paul II is said to be in very serious condition, and the Vatican press office is staying open during this crisis. And many reporters and analysts already today from Rome have noted that that's significant. Oftentimes, they'll close shop in mid-afternoon. Not the case now. So, we will not leave that story for long. We're watching it quite closely from the Vatican.

COSTELLO: Certainly not.

Turning now to the death of Terri Schiavo, it brings to an end what is likely the longest, most bitter and most litigated right-to- die dispute in U.S. history. But there doesn't appear to be an end in sight for the battle between Terri's parents and her husband.

Father Frank Pavone has been an adviser to Terri's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler. He was also in the room Thursday, minutes before Terri died. He's my guest now from Pinellas Park, Florida.

Good morning, Father.

FATHER FRANK PAVONE, SCHINDLER FAMILY SUPPORTER: Good morning. It's good to be with you.

COSTELLO: Thank you for being with us. Father Pavone, I want you to listen to what Michael Schiavo's attorney, George Felos, said yesterday right after Terri Schiavo died.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE FELOS, MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S ATTORNEY: That Father Pavone, instead of words of reconciliation, instead of words of healing, instead of words of compassion or understanding, which you might expect from a spiritual person, we had a platform for ideological agenda. We found that very counterproductive and disquieting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: He's accusing you of stirring up trouble in the midst of pain. Can you honestly say he's wrong?

PAVONE: Oh, he certainly is. In fact, he's using a classic tactic here of demonizing the opposition. Mr. Felos is sugar-coating what is nothing less than a murder. Terri Schiavo was murdered. And the family agrees with that.

The point is that this is not just about a clash between two families; it's a clash between two philosophies. And George Felos and Michael Schiavo have a definite philosophy that people like Terri can be disposed of. This battle will, in fact, continue. And I have reached out with compassion to Michael. I don't blame George Felos for not having heard every talk that I've given or interview that I've conducted.

COSTELLO: Well, Father, it's interesting...

PAVONE: But I...

COSTELLO: It's interesting to say that you've reached out to Michael Schiavo.

PAVONE: Yes.

COSTELLO: And it's interesting you also said that the other side was demonizing your side. I want to play something for you now that you said on Wednesday night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAVONE: If I speak to Michael, if I speak to Judge Greer, if I speak to any of these people, I will not hesitate to call them exactly what they are: murderers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Isn't that demonizing the other side?

PAVONE: It's accurately describing what happened to Terri. There are two things here taking place at the same time.

On the one hand, we reach out to the person. And I will sit down and talk with Michael, with Mr. Felos, with anybody at any time.

But secondly, when we talk, we have to accurately describe what's happening. We can't -- to avoid bitterness is one thing. To avoid the truth is something else entirely.

This is a very, very difficult debate, obviously, when we're talking about matters of life and death. And the road we have to take here is at the same time facing honestly what's going on and not closing off, not looking at the other person as the enemy. When I say they are murders...

COSTELLO: Well...

PAVONE: ... what I'm saying is the act that they've committed here is one of murder.

COSTELLO: I don't think Michael Schiavo sees that distinction, frankly. But you were with Bobby Schindler in Terri's room yesterday right before she died.

PAVONE: Yes.

COSTELLO: Did your presence there cause Bobby Schindler to miss the final moments of his sister's life?

PAVONE: No. What happened was Bobby and I and Suzanne were praying in the room for about an hour and a half yesterday morning. And then about 10 minutes to 9:00, we were told by the hospice that they were going to conduct an assessment; that we had to leave the room. This was not unusual. This was the normal pattern of events.

And then we were told that Michael would be coming in after that. And at that point, Bobby became concerned that he wouldn't be able to get back in the room until after she died. And the reason he was concerned is that that's what happened the previous night. Bobby and I were up all night waiting for the word from Michael that we could go back in. We had been in there up until midnight. And then they said, well, as soon as he's finished with his visit, you can go back in. And we weren't let back in until 7:30 in the morning.

So, Bobby was looking at what had just happened, and said, "Is this now going to happen again that I'm not going to be able to get in for seven hours?"

COSTELLO: But can you not understand why Michael Schiavo might not have wanted you back in that room after all that you've said about him?

PAVONE: Well, Michael not being in the room at the same time as the family is something that was in place long before I was involved. But Bobby said to the officer, who then communicated this to Michael, that he'd be willing to be in the room with Michael. Just Bobby, not myself. And that reconciliation, unfortunately, could not occur at that last moment.

COSTELLO: We'll have to leave it.

PAVONE: Certainly there are -- OK.

COSTELLO: Father Frank Pavone, spiritual adviser to the Schindler family, thank you.

George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney, is our guest in the next hour.

HEMMER: Carol, 10 minutes before the hour now. More on that breaking news out of the Vatican after a commercial break here. Once again, if you're just joining us today, the health of Pope John Paul II has taken a turn for the worse. The latest on his condition after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: The headline from the Vatican, the pope's condition is very grave, keeping a very close watch on the news out of the Vatican, the pope's condition. We'll get back to that in a moment.

First, though, we want to check in with Andy Serwer, "Minding Your Business", on a Friday morning and a highly-anticipated jobs report due out later today, that four-letter word. Good morning.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: That's right. Good morning to you, Bill.

At 8:30 Eastern, the jobs report for the month of March will be out. Economists are looking for an addition of 220,000 jobs that month, looking for the unemployment rate to dip to 5.3 percent. That would be lower than February's, which was 5.4.

The job growth is a little bit less anticipated in March than February, but still anything over 200,000 is good. Anything over 150,000 is good. You can see how volatile we have been over the past 12 months.

As far as the stock market goes, yesterday a down day. The price of oil wreaking havoc on the markets as you can see here. And we'll be talking more about oil and how stocks did in the first quarter a little bit later in the program.

HEMMER: That story is not going away for some time, too, with oil.

SERWER: That's right.

HEMMER: Thanks, Andy.

SERWER: You're welcome.

COSTELLO: And gas prices are still going up as a result.

SERWER: Yes.

COSTELLO: And interesting "Question of the Day" this morning.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: I'd like to think so. Thank you, Carol.

Terri Schiavo's life is over, but the national debate she triggered is not. It pitted Congress and the White House against federal and state courts, and elevated end-of-life decisions into the national consciousness. Some states are already considering adopting more restrictive end-of-life measures. With continued advances in medical technology and longer life spans, Americans will increasingly be faced with this very debate.

The question is this: How will history look at the Terri Schiavo story?

D.W. in Crescent City writes: "I doubt the Schiavo case will have a significant historical impact. It was just a sad family feud, which was seized upon by the kind of people who never saw a TV camera they didn't fall in love with."

Steve in Florida writes: "I think it will be remembered as a very sad commentary of, if nothing else, Florida law. The judges could only rule based on the current law there, which is obviously flawed."

Paul in Pennsylvania: "Religious dogma will ultimately give way to economic imperatives. Society will conclude that keeping brain- dead people artificially alive for 15 years is a grave disservice to the patient and to those who must pay the bill."

Teresa in New York: "History will be kind to those whose hearts were genuine and critical of those who used her for political gain."

And Robert in Washington writes: "I can't say for most, but it has made us aware of what can happen if we don't have our wishes in writing. In detail, we have written our living will so there will be no dispute."

HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.

Let's get a break again here. More in a moment, the breaking news from the Vatican. Pope John Paul II's health is take taking a dramatic turn for the worse. Live back to Rome after this on AMERICAN MORNING.

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