Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
A Look at Life, Death of Pope John Paul II
Aired April 03, 2005 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to our extended coverage this morning. I'm Soledad O'Brien, and AMERICAN MORNING is coming to you from both New York City and also Rome, Italy. Much more ahead this morning on both the life and the death of Pope John Paul II. Good morning, Bill.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Soledad, hello, and good afternoon from Rome Italy. I'm Bill Hemmer. We are high above Vatican City again this afternoon, watching and remembering the life of Pope John Paul II. For the past three and a half hours now, the first public viewing has taken place on the grounds of the Vatican, in an area known as the Apostolic Palace. This is a large, four-story building, where the top floor of that building was used for the past 26 years as the papal residence. It is there when last evening, about 9:37 in the evening local time here in Rome, that the pope left this earthly journey after 84 years on this planet and 26 years as leader of the Roman Catholic Church.
This is what we anticipate we can expect throughout the day. This viewing will be extended a little longer today for this private audience invited by the church and invited by the Vatican. And then after today is over, there will be a meeting of cardinals here at the Vatican tomorrow. And that's when we will get the official world regarding the funeral plans, the burial location, and when the conclave begins, that meeting of cardinals that will determine the next leader of the Roman Catholic Church.
Italian media reports that the funeral will take place on Wednesday, but there has been no official statement to date from the Vatican.
The other news we got today was regarding the final moments of the pope's life and again, the health condition that he suffered from to the very end. We could see visibly the issue of Parkinson's that he (UNINTELLIGIBLE) for the past 10 years, but there was never any official recognition by the Vatican until today of that condition. And for more on that, I want to go down to Jim Bittermann who's also here at the Vatican -- Jim.
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Bill. Yes, in fact, about mid-afternoon, the Vatican press office issued a statement describing exactly what the pope had died of. And in fact, it is nothing other than what we had expected. Basically, they said the immediate cause of death was septic shock and cardiocirculatory collapse. This was exactly what we had been told over the last couple of days as the pope had fallen ill, which of course was exacerbated by his Parkinson's, the Vatican press release said, and progressive episodes of acute respiratory failure.
So basically everything we knew about brought about the pope's death. There were no real surprises in that.
Those who saw his body today, there was a pool of reporters that was allowed into that VIP viewing of the pope's body, those who saw his face said that in fact, he appeared serene, but also there was some sense that perhaps he had been through a lot in the last couple of days. That viewing went on before a number of people, including the camerlengo, who is going to be one of the more important people that is in charge of things at the Vatican over the next few days, but also significantly, the members of the apostolic household, this included his private secretary, Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwisz, who was visibly moved to tears, was seen wiping his face several times with issues, as well as several of the nuns who had attended to the pope for many, many years.
So a lot of sadness for those who worked very closely with the pope. Another person that was seen crying, in fact, this morning was Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, one of the pope's oldest collaborators and rumored to be a possible replacement for the pope, one of those leading papabile they are always talking about.
Now, that viewing took place right at the end of a mass this morning, a mass attended by about 50,000 people in St. Peter's Square. It was Sunday morning, 10:30, it's time for mass every Sunday practically, but of course this mass was different. The pope was not here. Cardinal Angelo Sodano, the secretary of state, or I should say ex-secretary of state, because he loses his job with the death of the pope -- he celebrated the mass this morning, and he had several things to say, I think, in a way to comfort the crowd. He said, "last night the angel of the Lord passed by the apartments of the Vatican, approached his faithful servant, lifted him sweetly to the glory of the Lord." And then he said, "Life is not taken away, but it is changed. An earthly home is destroyed, but a more beautiful home is being built in heaven." So a few words there to perhaps help comfort those who were so touched by the pope's loss -- Bill.
HEMMER: Jim, also there is this report from the Italian media saying that his final word was "amen." No, there has been no official statement or confirmation from the Vatican, but in your years of covering the church here in Rome, is that something the Vatican would confirm at some point?
BITTERMANN: Well, they might. They just might. In fact, we do know of several previous popes' last words, a lot of in the past have been, at least from what we have heard from people around some of the previous popes, there have been Rosaries said as last words, prayers, the Lord's prayer, things like that. It's difficult to know. I think at this point it's probably speculation on the part of some of the media, but we may get some confirmation. I think we at least will get some confirmation of who was there in the room when the pope died and what he may have said, that also may be reported at some point -- Bill.
HEMMER: Jim, thanks. Jim Bittermann with us here in Italy. We want to make mention now that we've been watching this image come out of the Apostolic Palace now for about three hours and 30 minutes, fed to us through Vatican TV. But apparently that camera has now gone off the body of Pope John Paul II. The image we are getting now is outside the papal residency, an area there where the pope has come to the balcony for the past 26 years, several days during the week. It's also the area, we understand, where he passed away last evening, again, right around 9:30 in the evening here at the Vatican.
We should make mention that we were not given a solid time as to when this private viewing ceremony would end, but it's quite likely, if the camera has gone off and away from that, that that viewing period could be over as of now.
And if that is the case, the next time we will see the pope's body will be when he's officially lying in state inside St. Peter's Basilica, which, based on the schedule we've been given here, could come sometime on Monday afternoon. That's when the public will get a chance to view his body and pay their final respects.
And there is no telling at this point how many people will come to the Vatican to view his body. One estimate earlier today was absolutely staggering. Rome police say they anticipate two million people possibly flooding into Rome, flooding into Vatican to view the body and pay their final respects.
Want to make mention of one more thing here before we continue, and that's Italian media, again, mentioning that the funeral could happen on Wednesday of this week, but again none of that has been confirmed by the Vatican and may not in fact until about Monday afternoon, 24 hours from now.
Back with Aaron Brown, back with Father Jonathan Morris here, our guest again above Vatican City. Gentlemen, hello again to you.
It was quite interesting earlier today, they had an enormous mass out at St. Peter's square, they had 50,000 strong come out, and mostly Italian people and also tourists, who already had a plan set up to come to Rome before the events of last night. And quite touching to listen and to reflect and to really get a sense of the spirituality that is floating around the city today. It's hard to miss when you're here.
REV. JONATHAN MORRIS, LEGIONNAIRES OF CHRIST SEMINARY: Without a doubt. I think there's a danger, in fact, since we are a few steps away from the St. Peter's Square, to kind of miss out on that element, on a personal level of seeing people there who are kneeling down. It was really amazing in the hours leading up to the death of John Paul II, to get to see the faith of the people.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Father, you were, all last night or much of last night, you were down there, and we talked -- I only gently disagree, ever -- I think it was hard, of all of the things last night, there was the one thing that was hardest to miss, the -- how that moment, the moment of his death, the hours after his death, the people who had come there to pray for him to live on and the people who were there when the announcement was made, the power of that in their faces, in their eyes, not -- in the tears, in the solemnness of the moment, we saw -- I'm not sure you were able to see, there were these -- beautiful is the only word I can think of here -- beautiful pictures out of Krakow last night, of people who had come to the archbishop's residence. There are many things, I think, that have gone on in the last 12, 14 hours or so, but that personal connection between the pope and his people, or the people, both I think are true, is the most -- among the most profound things I have ever seen.
MORRIS: It's true, without a doubt. I think we talked earlier in this program with another guest, who mentioned that it seems that the world is united and the church is divided. I would also like to slightly disagree if that's OK.
BROWN: Well, gently.
MORRIS: Gently...
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: If you hadn't, I would have taken you there. So, go ahead.
MORRIS: Specifically because of the faith, the unity of faith. We see it in the plaza. Not all of them are Catholics, of course, but I know from my work as a Catholic priest, a recently ordained Catholic priest, that in the essential, in the essential, the Catholic Church is united, because we have one pope. What a gift that we have a pope. Right now we don't. But we will have one, and we've had one, and we look at the history of the church, it hasn't always been like that. And we looked to John Paul II, we looked at the pope as this is our point of unity, and it's also one of the great distinguishing factors between Catholicism and other religions.
BROWN: Absolutely.
MORRIS: Without a doubt, and that's a great joy for us.
BROWN: We approach a conversation like this with, I hope, exquisite sensitivity to the moment we are in. There are, among American Catholics, and I think in Western Europe, too, there are struggles with what you referred to the last time we talked here, with some objective truths, as the church sees them, and whether the church is divided or not we will leave to someone else. But there are struggles to live in accordance with the objective truths that the pope laid out.
MORRIS: There's no doubt. That's always going to be like that. And certainly, it's not perfect unity in the church, don't get me wrong. There's not perfect unity in the church. There won't be perfect unity as long as we are human beings. I think in any organization, specifically in the church, because it's -- the stuff is so important, right? The stuff is so important, and we come down, and we mention the objectivity of morality, et cetera. I think another very important aspect that has to be said, together with objective truth, is the mercy of God. Mercy of God. In other words, the fact that I've sinned -- and I've sinned -- doesn't mean that there's not forgiveness, doesn't mean that therefore anyone who is like this, is evil. But rather, there's hope.
BROWN: Someone -- I'm sure it still holds true that perfection in all respects is something we strive for and we never get -- quite get to anyway. It's nice to have you back with us again. Thank you.
MORRIS: It's pleasure to be here.
(CROSSTALK)
MORRIS: That's right.
BROWN: Thank you, Father.
MORRIS: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
HEMMER: I know that, believe me.
As we continue our coverage here now, high above Vatican City here, so many people still gathered down in the square below. They are there by the thousands. That crowd has ebbed and flowed throughout the day. And that's pretty much the image we can take into the evening hours here. It will be dusk here in about three hours from now.
And as the crowd gathers, oftentimes you see the people crying and in tears, and so many bring in their own candles to mark this day and this date in the life of this man. And as you walk along the gravel stone pavement down there, you can see the candle wax, rather, in other areas, where the overnight vigils have taken place and still take place at this hour.
A group of girls, young girls, 11, 12, 13, Italian girls, coming earlier tonight and talking with us in broken English that this pope was their second father, the second father that now they have come to say good-bye.
Our coverage continues from Rome right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JJ RAMBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ... just started going under way. Cardinal McCarrick is celebrating this mass. He also celebrated another mass yesterday. There are a lot of people in attendance here. There's only standing room there. We watched Condoleezza Rice go in just a few minutes ago, and Senator Kennedy stopped so that he could talk to us. He said that he was coming in today because he wanted to pay his respects to the pope and wanted to pray for the pope.
Now, yesterday Cardinal McCarrick in his mass stopped a little bit to talk about his reflections of the pope's life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THEODORE CARDINAL MCCARRICK, ARCHBISHOP OF WASHINGTON: He was more than just the pope. He was the pope who loved us. The pope who was our friend, the pope who we saw on our televisions, the pope who could laugh at a good joke, the pope who would understand our concerns.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAMBERG: Cardinal McCarrick also took some time not only to look back but also look forward. He asked that the congregation pray for him and the other cardinals as they go to Rome, he said, "pray for us so that we choose wisely and we choose well, so that our church has the leaders that it needs going forward."
And I had a little time to talk to some people as they walked into the cathedral this morning, and the mood here is very mixed. People saying that they are very sad, of course, to have learned about the pope's passing yesterday, but also they say this is a time for celebration, because the pope is going, as they call it, home -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: JJ Ramberg for us this morning. JJ, we should mention that we are expecting some remarks from Secretary Rice and also Cardinal McCarrick as well. They are going to make those remarks, we're told, after the mass, and we will bring that to you when it happens.
Time to check the headlines now. Tony Harris is at the CNN Center in Atlanta. Hey, Tony, good morning again.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Soledad, and good morning, everyone. Checking other stories now in the news.
Iraq's National Assembly elected new leadership today, exactly nine weeks after historic national elections. Members picked a Sunni Arab as parliament speaker, and a Shiite and a Kurd as his deputies. The assembly must next choose a president, who will then name a prime minister.
Australia's military is investigating a deadly navy helicopter crash in earthquake-ravaged Indonesia. Nine Australian military personnel were killed, and two others were seriously injured. The helicopter was on a earthquake relief mission to hard-hit Nias island.
Back in this country now, Terri Schiavo's body has been cremated. Michael Schiavo plans to bury his wife's ashes in Pennsylvania, where she was born. By court order, he must tell Schiavo's parents exactly where she will be interred. Terri's parents plan a memorial service this week in Florida.
Winter just won't loosen its icy grip on the Buckeye State. A spring storm hits Cleveland, Ohio with a record snowfall, five inches of snow. Puts the city's total for the season, to 104 inches. Cleveland usually averages 63 inches of snow each winter. We will see if the weather in the Northeast is going to improve today. Rob Marciano is standing by with the forecast. Good morning, Rob.
(WEATHER FORECAST)
O'BRIEN: Rob, all right, thanks a lot. We appreciate the update. You are looking at some live pictures this morning. This is the big line, the 10:15 mass on this morning at Saint Patrick's Cathedral. And there is a massive line outside. The mass is going to be led by Cardinal Egan. The line to get in, though, is more than a city block long, we're told. It's right on 50th Street, between 5th and Madison. Kind of moving fast, but you can see still many folks are still trying to get in.
We are going to get a live update from St. Patrick's Cathedral ahead this morning.
We've been remembering all morning the life and talking about the death of Pope John Paul II. This morning, we are getting reaction from around the globe, also asking for your feedback online as well. Let's go to Carol Costello for that.
Good morning again.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: We have gotten feedback this morning. Have you ever heard Cardinal Egan give a mass?
O'BRIEN: Yes, I have, actually.
COSTELLO: It's very powerful, isn't it?
O'BRIEN: Yeah.
COSTELLO: So those hundreds in St. Patrick's Cathedral this morning, they are in for something special.
We have been asking your opinion about Pope John Paul II. Moral, complex, brilliant, liberal and conservative, Pope John Paul was all of those things. "Be not afraid," was his signature line. Some believe he should become a saint now. Here's our question for you this morning. How will history remember Pope John Paul II?
Here is the first one, from Will from Indianapolis. He says: "Pope John Paul provided us all with a powerful example of how to live and how to die."
This one from C.C. in Lawrenceville, Georgia: "I believe John Paul's legacy to all is that no matter what religion you profess, it is important to be spiritual and have a personal relationship with God, as he surely had."
And now for the other side -- and this may not be the time for these negative comments, but Americans don't mind speaking their minds, we know that. So Jerry from Vermont, I'll let you speak your mind this morning. He says: "I will remember the pope for presiding over the Catholic faith during the worst sexual abuse scandal in the history of religion and essentially doing nothing."
As you know, Soledad, he was very slow to react to the priest abuse scandal here in the United States, and many think he should have come out stronger and perhaps done more. This from Kathy in Texas. She said: "Help us. Yet another thing to obsess over while the true business of the world goes on. The pope continued the church doctrine of repressing women. Enough said for me."
And, of course, a big criticism of the pope was he drove -- he alienated women and liberal Catholics from the church, because of his stance on birth control, homosexuality, and also abortion.
O'BRIEN: And all those questions, of course, lead into what direction does the church go now, now that the 117 cardinals will have an opportunity to pick another pope? Do they go a different direction from Pope John Paul II, as I think those last two writers have highlighted some of the criticisms of those who have come out to criticize the pope and his tenure.
COSTELLO: Many Catholics love their faith, but they don't necessarily love everything about the faith, and many have left the Catholic faith, especially here in the United States, because of church doctrine.
O'BRIEN: You know, when you look at the numbers, you see the numbers of clergy actually declining, but the numbers of Catholics actually growing. So it will be interesting to see -- a little bit later this morning, we are going to talk to some seminarians who have come in to talk to us about their experiences with Pope John Paul II.
COSTELLO: I see them sitting right over there.
O'BRIEN: That's ahead this morning. A short break is ahead this morning. We are back in just a moment. Stay with us. Once again, we are going to bring you a live update from St. Patrick's Cathedral, where a long line has now formed for those who are trying to get into a special mass that happens -- is happening this morning. We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: The pope's passing felt deeply across the United States on this Sunday. Kelly Wallace is at St. Patrick's Cathedral here in New York. Kelly, good morning.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad. A couple of rather extraordinary things to tell you. You know, they set up some speakers here outside St. Patrick's Cathedral, so that people who can't get inside the church for this special mass can hear what is under way. It's really one of the first times I have heard this. An so here you are, sort of in the heart of midtown Manhattan, 5th Avenue, and you have these speakers on -- leading up to St. Patrick's Cathedral, so people all outside the cathedral can hear what is going on inside.
An I know you were talking about a short time ago how people were waiting in line. More than a full city block long, running from 50th into 51st, between 5th and Madison, people waiting. One man I talked to said I have waited in line for bars before, but I never waited in line for church. He said he wanted to come here. He said he's more of a liberal Catholic and doesn't always agree with the popes, but he said nobody has led the church better.
Cardinal Egan is leading this special mass, the second of three special masses that will be taking place. And last night, he talked about the pope, someone he knew very, very well from his time studying in Rome. He said, "Tonight, I am mourning for the loss of my second father, but at the same time I rejoice that he has finished the race which he ran so well, and I know that he is in the hands of the eternal father."
I also spoke with another woman who was waiting in line. She had some white carnations that she would be leaving here at St. Patrick's Cathedral. She remembers seeing the pope in 1995 at Central Park, when he talked about the fight against AIDS. She described him as incredible. She said, really, no one, no one could do it any better -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Kelly Wallace, at St. Patrick's Cathedral.
We are remembering the life and the death of Pope John Paul II this morning. In just a moment, we are going to take you back out to Rome, Bill Hemmer and Aaron Brown. You are watching a very special edition of AMERICAN MORNING on this Sunday morning, remembering Pope Paul John II. Back in just a moment.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 3, 2005 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to our extended coverage this morning. I'm Soledad O'Brien, and AMERICAN MORNING is coming to you from both New York City and also Rome, Italy. Much more ahead this morning on both the life and the death of Pope John Paul II. Good morning, Bill.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Soledad, hello, and good afternoon from Rome Italy. I'm Bill Hemmer. We are high above Vatican City again this afternoon, watching and remembering the life of Pope John Paul II. For the past three and a half hours now, the first public viewing has taken place on the grounds of the Vatican, in an area known as the Apostolic Palace. This is a large, four-story building, where the top floor of that building was used for the past 26 years as the papal residence. It is there when last evening, about 9:37 in the evening local time here in Rome, that the pope left this earthly journey after 84 years on this planet and 26 years as leader of the Roman Catholic Church.
This is what we anticipate we can expect throughout the day. This viewing will be extended a little longer today for this private audience invited by the church and invited by the Vatican. And then after today is over, there will be a meeting of cardinals here at the Vatican tomorrow. And that's when we will get the official world regarding the funeral plans, the burial location, and when the conclave begins, that meeting of cardinals that will determine the next leader of the Roman Catholic Church.
Italian media reports that the funeral will take place on Wednesday, but there has been no official statement to date from the Vatican.
The other news we got today was regarding the final moments of the pope's life and again, the health condition that he suffered from to the very end. We could see visibly the issue of Parkinson's that he (UNINTELLIGIBLE) for the past 10 years, but there was never any official recognition by the Vatican until today of that condition. And for more on that, I want to go down to Jim Bittermann who's also here at the Vatican -- Jim.
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Bill. Yes, in fact, about mid-afternoon, the Vatican press office issued a statement describing exactly what the pope had died of. And in fact, it is nothing other than what we had expected. Basically, they said the immediate cause of death was septic shock and cardiocirculatory collapse. This was exactly what we had been told over the last couple of days as the pope had fallen ill, which of course was exacerbated by his Parkinson's, the Vatican press release said, and progressive episodes of acute respiratory failure.
So basically everything we knew about brought about the pope's death. There were no real surprises in that.
Those who saw his body today, there was a pool of reporters that was allowed into that VIP viewing of the pope's body, those who saw his face said that in fact, he appeared serene, but also there was some sense that perhaps he had been through a lot in the last couple of days. That viewing went on before a number of people, including the camerlengo, who is going to be one of the more important people that is in charge of things at the Vatican over the next few days, but also significantly, the members of the apostolic household, this included his private secretary, Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwisz, who was visibly moved to tears, was seen wiping his face several times with issues, as well as several of the nuns who had attended to the pope for many, many years.
So a lot of sadness for those who worked very closely with the pope. Another person that was seen crying, in fact, this morning was Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, one of the pope's oldest collaborators and rumored to be a possible replacement for the pope, one of those leading papabile they are always talking about.
Now, that viewing took place right at the end of a mass this morning, a mass attended by about 50,000 people in St. Peter's Square. It was Sunday morning, 10:30, it's time for mass every Sunday practically, but of course this mass was different. The pope was not here. Cardinal Angelo Sodano, the secretary of state, or I should say ex-secretary of state, because he loses his job with the death of the pope -- he celebrated the mass this morning, and he had several things to say, I think, in a way to comfort the crowd. He said, "last night the angel of the Lord passed by the apartments of the Vatican, approached his faithful servant, lifted him sweetly to the glory of the Lord." And then he said, "Life is not taken away, but it is changed. An earthly home is destroyed, but a more beautiful home is being built in heaven." So a few words there to perhaps help comfort those who were so touched by the pope's loss -- Bill.
HEMMER: Jim, also there is this report from the Italian media saying that his final word was "amen." No, there has been no official statement or confirmation from the Vatican, but in your years of covering the church here in Rome, is that something the Vatican would confirm at some point?
BITTERMANN: Well, they might. They just might. In fact, we do know of several previous popes' last words, a lot of in the past have been, at least from what we have heard from people around some of the previous popes, there have been Rosaries said as last words, prayers, the Lord's prayer, things like that. It's difficult to know. I think at this point it's probably speculation on the part of some of the media, but we may get some confirmation. I think we at least will get some confirmation of who was there in the room when the pope died and what he may have said, that also may be reported at some point -- Bill.
HEMMER: Jim, thanks. Jim Bittermann with us here in Italy. We want to make mention now that we've been watching this image come out of the Apostolic Palace now for about three hours and 30 minutes, fed to us through Vatican TV. But apparently that camera has now gone off the body of Pope John Paul II. The image we are getting now is outside the papal residency, an area there where the pope has come to the balcony for the past 26 years, several days during the week. It's also the area, we understand, where he passed away last evening, again, right around 9:30 in the evening here at the Vatican.
We should make mention that we were not given a solid time as to when this private viewing ceremony would end, but it's quite likely, if the camera has gone off and away from that, that that viewing period could be over as of now.
And if that is the case, the next time we will see the pope's body will be when he's officially lying in state inside St. Peter's Basilica, which, based on the schedule we've been given here, could come sometime on Monday afternoon. That's when the public will get a chance to view his body and pay their final respects.
And there is no telling at this point how many people will come to the Vatican to view his body. One estimate earlier today was absolutely staggering. Rome police say they anticipate two million people possibly flooding into Rome, flooding into Vatican to view the body and pay their final respects.
Want to make mention of one more thing here before we continue, and that's Italian media, again, mentioning that the funeral could happen on Wednesday of this week, but again none of that has been confirmed by the Vatican and may not in fact until about Monday afternoon, 24 hours from now.
Back with Aaron Brown, back with Father Jonathan Morris here, our guest again above Vatican City. Gentlemen, hello again to you.
It was quite interesting earlier today, they had an enormous mass out at St. Peter's square, they had 50,000 strong come out, and mostly Italian people and also tourists, who already had a plan set up to come to Rome before the events of last night. And quite touching to listen and to reflect and to really get a sense of the spirituality that is floating around the city today. It's hard to miss when you're here.
REV. JONATHAN MORRIS, LEGIONNAIRES OF CHRIST SEMINARY: Without a doubt. I think there's a danger, in fact, since we are a few steps away from the St. Peter's Square, to kind of miss out on that element, on a personal level of seeing people there who are kneeling down. It was really amazing in the hours leading up to the death of John Paul II, to get to see the faith of the people.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Father, you were, all last night or much of last night, you were down there, and we talked -- I only gently disagree, ever -- I think it was hard, of all of the things last night, there was the one thing that was hardest to miss, the -- how that moment, the moment of his death, the hours after his death, the people who had come there to pray for him to live on and the people who were there when the announcement was made, the power of that in their faces, in their eyes, not -- in the tears, in the solemnness of the moment, we saw -- I'm not sure you were able to see, there were these -- beautiful is the only word I can think of here -- beautiful pictures out of Krakow last night, of people who had come to the archbishop's residence. There are many things, I think, that have gone on in the last 12, 14 hours or so, but that personal connection between the pope and his people, or the people, both I think are true, is the most -- among the most profound things I have ever seen.
MORRIS: It's true, without a doubt. I think we talked earlier in this program with another guest, who mentioned that it seems that the world is united and the church is divided. I would also like to slightly disagree if that's OK.
BROWN: Well, gently.
MORRIS: Gently...
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: If you hadn't, I would have taken you there. So, go ahead.
MORRIS: Specifically because of the faith, the unity of faith. We see it in the plaza. Not all of them are Catholics, of course, but I know from my work as a Catholic priest, a recently ordained Catholic priest, that in the essential, in the essential, the Catholic Church is united, because we have one pope. What a gift that we have a pope. Right now we don't. But we will have one, and we've had one, and we look at the history of the church, it hasn't always been like that. And we looked to John Paul II, we looked at the pope as this is our point of unity, and it's also one of the great distinguishing factors between Catholicism and other religions.
BROWN: Absolutely.
MORRIS: Without a doubt, and that's a great joy for us.
BROWN: We approach a conversation like this with, I hope, exquisite sensitivity to the moment we are in. There are, among American Catholics, and I think in Western Europe, too, there are struggles with what you referred to the last time we talked here, with some objective truths, as the church sees them, and whether the church is divided or not we will leave to someone else. But there are struggles to live in accordance with the objective truths that the pope laid out.
MORRIS: There's no doubt. That's always going to be like that. And certainly, it's not perfect unity in the church, don't get me wrong. There's not perfect unity in the church. There won't be perfect unity as long as we are human beings. I think in any organization, specifically in the church, because it's -- the stuff is so important, right? The stuff is so important, and we come down, and we mention the objectivity of morality, et cetera. I think another very important aspect that has to be said, together with objective truth, is the mercy of God. Mercy of God. In other words, the fact that I've sinned -- and I've sinned -- doesn't mean that there's not forgiveness, doesn't mean that therefore anyone who is like this, is evil. But rather, there's hope.
BROWN: Someone -- I'm sure it still holds true that perfection in all respects is something we strive for and we never get -- quite get to anyway. It's nice to have you back with us again. Thank you.
MORRIS: It's pleasure to be here.
(CROSSTALK)
MORRIS: That's right.
BROWN: Thank you, Father.
MORRIS: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
HEMMER: I know that, believe me.
As we continue our coverage here now, high above Vatican City here, so many people still gathered down in the square below. They are there by the thousands. That crowd has ebbed and flowed throughout the day. And that's pretty much the image we can take into the evening hours here. It will be dusk here in about three hours from now.
And as the crowd gathers, oftentimes you see the people crying and in tears, and so many bring in their own candles to mark this day and this date in the life of this man. And as you walk along the gravel stone pavement down there, you can see the candle wax, rather, in other areas, where the overnight vigils have taken place and still take place at this hour.
A group of girls, young girls, 11, 12, 13, Italian girls, coming earlier tonight and talking with us in broken English that this pope was their second father, the second father that now they have come to say good-bye.
Our coverage continues from Rome right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JJ RAMBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ... just started going under way. Cardinal McCarrick is celebrating this mass. He also celebrated another mass yesterday. There are a lot of people in attendance here. There's only standing room there. We watched Condoleezza Rice go in just a few minutes ago, and Senator Kennedy stopped so that he could talk to us. He said that he was coming in today because he wanted to pay his respects to the pope and wanted to pray for the pope.
Now, yesterday Cardinal McCarrick in his mass stopped a little bit to talk about his reflections of the pope's life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THEODORE CARDINAL MCCARRICK, ARCHBISHOP OF WASHINGTON: He was more than just the pope. He was the pope who loved us. The pope who was our friend, the pope who we saw on our televisions, the pope who could laugh at a good joke, the pope who would understand our concerns.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAMBERG: Cardinal McCarrick also took some time not only to look back but also look forward. He asked that the congregation pray for him and the other cardinals as they go to Rome, he said, "pray for us so that we choose wisely and we choose well, so that our church has the leaders that it needs going forward."
And I had a little time to talk to some people as they walked into the cathedral this morning, and the mood here is very mixed. People saying that they are very sad, of course, to have learned about the pope's passing yesterday, but also they say this is a time for celebration, because the pope is going, as they call it, home -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: JJ Ramberg for us this morning. JJ, we should mention that we are expecting some remarks from Secretary Rice and also Cardinal McCarrick as well. They are going to make those remarks, we're told, after the mass, and we will bring that to you when it happens.
Time to check the headlines now. Tony Harris is at the CNN Center in Atlanta. Hey, Tony, good morning again.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Soledad, and good morning, everyone. Checking other stories now in the news.
Iraq's National Assembly elected new leadership today, exactly nine weeks after historic national elections. Members picked a Sunni Arab as parliament speaker, and a Shiite and a Kurd as his deputies. The assembly must next choose a president, who will then name a prime minister.
Australia's military is investigating a deadly navy helicopter crash in earthquake-ravaged Indonesia. Nine Australian military personnel were killed, and two others were seriously injured. The helicopter was on a earthquake relief mission to hard-hit Nias island.
Back in this country now, Terri Schiavo's body has been cremated. Michael Schiavo plans to bury his wife's ashes in Pennsylvania, where she was born. By court order, he must tell Schiavo's parents exactly where she will be interred. Terri's parents plan a memorial service this week in Florida.
Winter just won't loosen its icy grip on the Buckeye State. A spring storm hits Cleveland, Ohio with a record snowfall, five inches of snow. Puts the city's total for the season, to 104 inches. Cleveland usually averages 63 inches of snow each winter. We will see if the weather in the Northeast is going to improve today. Rob Marciano is standing by with the forecast. Good morning, Rob.
(WEATHER FORECAST)
O'BRIEN: Rob, all right, thanks a lot. We appreciate the update. You are looking at some live pictures this morning. This is the big line, the 10:15 mass on this morning at Saint Patrick's Cathedral. And there is a massive line outside. The mass is going to be led by Cardinal Egan. The line to get in, though, is more than a city block long, we're told. It's right on 50th Street, between 5th and Madison. Kind of moving fast, but you can see still many folks are still trying to get in.
We are going to get a live update from St. Patrick's Cathedral ahead this morning.
We've been remembering all morning the life and talking about the death of Pope John Paul II. This morning, we are getting reaction from around the globe, also asking for your feedback online as well. Let's go to Carol Costello for that.
Good morning again.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: We have gotten feedback this morning. Have you ever heard Cardinal Egan give a mass?
O'BRIEN: Yes, I have, actually.
COSTELLO: It's very powerful, isn't it?
O'BRIEN: Yeah.
COSTELLO: So those hundreds in St. Patrick's Cathedral this morning, they are in for something special.
We have been asking your opinion about Pope John Paul II. Moral, complex, brilliant, liberal and conservative, Pope John Paul was all of those things. "Be not afraid," was his signature line. Some believe he should become a saint now. Here's our question for you this morning. How will history remember Pope John Paul II?
Here is the first one, from Will from Indianapolis. He says: "Pope John Paul provided us all with a powerful example of how to live and how to die."
This one from C.C. in Lawrenceville, Georgia: "I believe John Paul's legacy to all is that no matter what religion you profess, it is important to be spiritual and have a personal relationship with God, as he surely had."
And now for the other side -- and this may not be the time for these negative comments, but Americans don't mind speaking their minds, we know that. So Jerry from Vermont, I'll let you speak your mind this morning. He says: "I will remember the pope for presiding over the Catholic faith during the worst sexual abuse scandal in the history of religion and essentially doing nothing."
As you know, Soledad, he was very slow to react to the priest abuse scandal here in the United States, and many think he should have come out stronger and perhaps done more. This from Kathy in Texas. She said: "Help us. Yet another thing to obsess over while the true business of the world goes on. The pope continued the church doctrine of repressing women. Enough said for me."
And, of course, a big criticism of the pope was he drove -- he alienated women and liberal Catholics from the church, because of his stance on birth control, homosexuality, and also abortion.
O'BRIEN: And all those questions, of course, lead into what direction does the church go now, now that the 117 cardinals will have an opportunity to pick another pope? Do they go a different direction from Pope John Paul II, as I think those last two writers have highlighted some of the criticisms of those who have come out to criticize the pope and his tenure.
COSTELLO: Many Catholics love their faith, but they don't necessarily love everything about the faith, and many have left the Catholic faith, especially here in the United States, because of church doctrine.
O'BRIEN: You know, when you look at the numbers, you see the numbers of clergy actually declining, but the numbers of Catholics actually growing. So it will be interesting to see -- a little bit later this morning, we are going to talk to some seminarians who have come in to talk to us about their experiences with Pope John Paul II.
COSTELLO: I see them sitting right over there.
O'BRIEN: That's ahead this morning. A short break is ahead this morning. We are back in just a moment. Stay with us. Once again, we are going to bring you a live update from St. Patrick's Cathedral, where a long line has now formed for those who are trying to get into a special mass that happens -- is happening this morning. We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: The pope's passing felt deeply across the United States on this Sunday. Kelly Wallace is at St. Patrick's Cathedral here in New York. Kelly, good morning.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad. A couple of rather extraordinary things to tell you. You know, they set up some speakers here outside St. Patrick's Cathedral, so that people who can't get inside the church for this special mass can hear what is under way. It's really one of the first times I have heard this. An so here you are, sort of in the heart of midtown Manhattan, 5th Avenue, and you have these speakers on -- leading up to St. Patrick's Cathedral, so people all outside the cathedral can hear what is going on inside.
An I know you were talking about a short time ago how people were waiting in line. More than a full city block long, running from 50th into 51st, between 5th and Madison, people waiting. One man I talked to said I have waited in line for bars before, but I never waited in line for church. He said he wanted to come here. He said he's more of a liberal Catholic and doesn't always agree with the popes, but he said nobody has led the church better.
Cardinal Egan is leading this special mass, the second of three special masses that will be taking place. And last night, he talked about the pope, someone he knew very, very well from his time studying in Rome. He said, "Tonight, I am mourning for the loss of my second father, but at the same time I rejoice that he has finished the race which he ran so well, and I know that he is in the hands of the eternal father."
I also spoke with another woman who was waiting in line. She had some white carnations that she would be leaving here at St. Patrick's Cathedral. She remembers seeing the pope in 1995 at Central Park, when he talked about the fight against AIDS. She described him as incredible. She said, really, no one, no one could do it any better -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Kelly Wallace, at St. Patrick's Cathedral.
We are remembering the life and the death of Pope John Paul II this morning. In just a moment, we are going to take you back out to Rome, Bill Hemmer and Aaron Brown. You are watching a very special edition of AMERICAN MORNING on this Sunday morning, remembering Pope Paul John II. Back in just a moment.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
