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American Morning
Divided Michael Jackson Camp?; Jackson Verdict Watch; California Jihad Investigation
Aired June 09, 2005 - 07:29 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: It's about 7:30 here in New York. And good morning, everyone. I'm Bill Hemmer.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Carol Costello, in for Soledad today.
In a few hours the Michael Jackson jury starts its fourth day of deliberations this week, and it will be a short one.
HEMMER: Yes. You know why?
COSTELLO: Why?
HEMMER: Because some of the jurors have high school graduations for the kids, and so they're going to work a half-day out there in California.
COSTELLO: That was nice of the judge.
HEMMER: Good work if you can get it, right? Also, more on this flap between members of the Jackson camp about who's saying what to whom. And Anne Bremner is going to sort that out for us.
First, though, the headlines. Valerie Morris with us today.
Good morning, Val.
VALERIE MORRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning to you, Bill and Carol. Good morning, everyone.
"Now in the News."
We have been telling you about this breaking news story out of Aruba. Within the past hour, we learned police have arrested three more suspects in the disappearance of high school student Natalee Holloway. Two other suspects arrested Sunday will also remain behind bars after a judge ruled there's enough evidence to hold them. Natalee Holloway disappeared May 30. The search for her resumes this morning. Her family has vowed to remain on the island until she is found. And we will, of course, be bringing you the very latest on this story.
There are also new developments out of California. There could be more arrests as authorities look into a possible terror plot. A fifth person was detained Wednesday near Sacramento as part of the investigation. The FBI says the investigation has uncovered possible ties to al Qaeda, and at least one of the suspects may have received terror training overseas.
British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw is in Baghdad today for meetings with senior Iraqi officials. Straw met with Iraq's president and also greeted the staff at the British embassy in Iraq. The visit comes ahead of a conference in Brussels, looking at development issues in Iraq.
And another one of President Bush's judicial nominees is close to being confirmed. Senators are set to vote today on the nomination of former Alabama Attorney General William Pryor. And Judge Janice Rogers Brown was confirmed to a federal appeals court Wednesday. Her nomination had been blocked for nearly two years.
The U.S. embassy in Australia has been closed as a precautionary measure. Police say they're investigating envelopes containing a suspicious white powder that were sent to a total of five embassies in Australia. Authorities say two of the packages were found to be harmless, but tests are still being done. All of the embassies affected have troops in Iraq, though police say they have not found out a motive.
Now let's check back on the weather.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: Well, the jury is still out in Michael Jackson's trial. The panel of eight women and four men return for a fifth day of deliberations today. It will be a short day, however. We'll explain that in a moment.
Meanwhile, this controversy outside the courthouse has drawn a sharp response from Jackson's defense team.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER (voice over): The latest twist in the Michael Jackson trial has nothing to do with the jury, but instead who speaks for the pop star. Several days of interviews by the Reverend Jesse Jackson and others reportedly have the Jackson camp up in arms. At a courthouse news conference Wednesday, spokeswoman Ramone Bain insisted she had the blessing of Jackson's lead attorney to talk to the media.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tom Mesereau is very furious that you're even here; also furious at Reverend Jackson for showing up. He wants to the thing buttoned-up and make this as quiet and professional as possible. So, why you here when he, in fact, I'm told, doesn't want you out here?
RAMONE BAIN, FAMILY SPOKESWOMAN: If Mr. Mesereau didn't want me here I wouldn't be here. So don't listen to so many rumors.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) your presence?
BAIN: Yes, he is. I never speak to the media without talking to Tom Mesereau, because I understand, quite unlike many of you, that this is a serious situation. And so, therefore, if I had not spoken to our team, I would not be here.
HEMMER: Not long after, attorney Tom Mesereau issued a statement saying: "I have not authorized anyone to speak or hold any press conferences on behalf of Michael Jackson or his family. A gag order is in effect, which the defense team will continue to honor."
Jackson's family posted a similar statement on his Web site, saying: "The efforts of Michael Jackson's friends and supporters are noticed and very much appreciated at this time. However, only Michael Jackson's attorneys of record have been authorized to speak on his behalf."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
So, where are we today now? Attorney Anne Bremner is back with us outside the courthouse.
Anne, good morning out there in Santa Maria, California. Ramone Bain comes out and talks again. What gives here? Was she in violation of a gag order? Did she have Mesereau's blessing? Or how do you figure it out?
ANNE BREMNER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it's not very clear. It sounds like that there was a real issue about whether she had Mesereau's blessings.
And with this gag order in place, I think Mesereau wants to be very, very careful about any violations. And his statement was very clear. I have not authorized anyone to speak on behalf of Michael Jackson.
Every time Thomas Mesereau got up to examine a witness or cross- examine a witness, he would say this: I'm Thomas Mesereau, and I speak for Michael Jackson. And only Thomas Mesereau should speak for Michael Jackson.
HEMMER: Well, it may seem like a small matter now and a bit of a circus outside the courthouse, which just adds to the circus that was under way anyway.
BREMNER: Right.
HEMMER: But if somebody is under violation, it could become a much bigger story. Do you see it going that way?
BREMNER: Well, it could. And I think that Mesereau just wanted to stop that, because, you know, this judge has been very, very, very strict about the gag order. And, you know, right behind me, Bill, is where the jury takes their breaks. And it's kind of a pen area. I mean it's just within a stone's throw from me. And the judge is piping in music so the jurors can't hear a lot of these public statements that are being made out here and what the fans are chanting. I mean, they should not be influenced in any way in this case.
HEMMER: Well, you know, that raises an interesting question. Should this jury have been sequestered for deliberations?
BREMNER: It's starting to seem that way, just because there is so much going on out here it's just zany. You know, there's the chance of Michael's innocence, you know, fight Michael fight. And then Jesse Jackson out here comparing the searches at Neverland to the Branch Davidian raids in Waco. You know, the last time I looked at Neverland, it's not on fire. But that's what he's saying. And this is all happening within a stone's throw of this outdoor area, where they take three breaks a day.
HEMMER: And these jurors, they enter and they leave the courthouse. They see this. They're exposed to it.
BREMNER: That's right.
HEMMER: The judge is trying to do something to prevent them from hearing it. It's a pretty difficult task to do, apparently. Then they're going home to their families at night. And this is the talk on every news channel that you turn on every night. So, if you want the information, clearly it's there for the taking if you are a juror on this panel.
Another question here about a half-day for the jurors.
BREMNER: Right.
HEMMER: What, high school graduations? What's happening?
BREMNER: Well, remember yesterday we were talking with Jeffrey Toobin. He didn't want the verdict yesterday, because it's the sixth grade graduation of his son. Well, today is high school graduation in Santa Maria. Santa Maria high school, the Santa Maria Saints. And so at 11:00 the jurors will be done for the day.
HEMMER: Do you accept that?
BREMNER: Well, I think, you know, frankly with a deliberating jury, I think that they should have, you know, full hours, you know, probably longer hours, and that nothing should interfere. But this, I guess, they knew about for some time, and the judge said they can take part of the day off.
Yesterday, I thought, was the day they'd have a verdict. And they did look serious when they were leaving. They were dressed up. I always think that's an indication they could be ready to deliver a verdict, especially in a high-profile case where they may give a press conference. Will they give one today? I don't know on a short day. But it could happen. They look like they're getting near to a verdict.
HEMMER: Thanks, Anne. Anne Bremer out in Santa Maria, California. Keep reading the tea leaves for us.
BREMNER: My pleasure.
HEMMER: OK. Talk to you later. BREMNER: Yes.
HEMMER: Here's Carol.
COSTELLO: All right, thank you, Bill.
Police in Arkansas are investigating a teenage drinking party. Get this: They found a DVD. It was titled "Fight Night." Here it is. It shows local high school students boxing at a makeshift ring. And I don't know if you'll see them, but there are also two girls on this DVD in bikinis, and they are mud wrestling. Oh, there they are. Investigators say they learned of the incident when a teacher got a hold of a copy of the DVD and gave it to police. It's still not known who sponsored the party, but an official says participants were charged admission, and organizers apparently planned to put copies of the DVD out for sale.
It could be New Jersey's first shark attack in 30 years. It's believed a surfer off Long Beach Island north of Atlantic City was bitten by a shark. The 17-year-old surfer says he paddled back to shore and was taken to the hospital by his brother.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RYAN HORTON, SHARK ATTACK SURVIVOR: It felt like a baseball had whacked my foot. And then I looked over at it, and there was just a huge chunk missing. The only reason I think that it had gotten me, because maybe I was disturbing its territory.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: He ended up with 50 stitches to close a three-inch gash. While the surfer says he never saw what got him, officials believe the wound may have come from either a young great white or a sandbar shark.
HEMMER: New Jersey.
COSTELLO: Unbelievable.
HEMMER: We don't hear that every day, yes.
One of the most famous corporate icons in the world gets a sporty makeover. Andy shows that in a moment, "Minding Your Business."
COSTELLO: And five arrests now in a northern California terror probe. Could they lead investigators to al Qaeda's big fish? A CNN "Security Watch" next on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: More now on today's "Security Watch" and a possible al Qaeda plot inside here of the U.S. So far, five men in Lodi, California, have been picked up on various charges. Federal agents say that investigation has been going on for several years, and it's likely to lead to more people. Richard Falkenrath is a CNN security analyst, also the follower deputy White House homeland security adviser, live in our D.C. bureau.
Richard, good morning.
RICHARD FALKENRATH, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: Here is what the FBI was putting out yesterday, and it's changed a little bit a day later: "Hamid stated that during his weapons training, photos of various high-ranking U.S. political figures, including President Bush, would be pasted on the targets."
It continues, "Hamid advised that he specifically requested to come to the United States to carry out his jihad mission."
Then it goes to the next line: "Potential targets for attack would include hospitals and large food stores."
That last line there, "hospitals and large food stores," apparently is now being pulled back by the FBI. Why would they back away from that part of the statement, Richard?
FALKENRATH: Well, I'm not exactly sure, but I think it's because the owners of hospitals and food stores were getting very worried about a possible threat against those targets. And the government wasn't ready to validate what Hamid said voluntarily in these interviews.
You know, this information is coming from Hamid himself, which he gave apparently in interrogation with the FBI. And that's really not a very good source for a sort of public threat advisory, which is what this has become, given all of the publicity it's received over the past 24 hours.
HEMMER: Are you suggesting this is one source, this is only Hamid, his words?
FALKENRATH: My understanding from the news reports on this is that the source of this information is Hamid himself in his interviews with the FBI. That information was contained in an affidavit signed by the FBI and unsealed yesterday, which is why it's now in the public domain.
HEMMER: Let's get to this other issue, another arrest made last night, a 19-year-old son of one of the Imans. What do you make of that? And how likely is it that in Lodi, California, you've got a sleeper cell?
FALKENRATH: Well, it's entirely possible anywhere in the country where you have large Muslim populations, frankly. And these populations, like in Lodi and elsewhere, have been contacted by the FBI, and in some cases under surveillance by the FBI since 9/1, some cases even before 9/11.
So, it's not impossible that these are individuals of concern with possible contacts with al Qaeda and others. Detaining them on immigration violations is the easiest thing for the federal government to do, because it doesn't require the same sort of revealing of information that you do if you detain them under criminal charges, as the other two guys were.
HEMMER: How long could you hold them on immigration violations?
FALKENRATH: It varies, and it's not entirely up to the administration. The judge -- there's also a judge involved in deciding. It depends on what the violation is, and that information has not yet been revealed.
HEMMER: You say it's possible this information first came out of Pakistan. What gives you that hunch, Richard?
FALKENRATH: Well, any number of ways the government could have gotten on the two Hamids. And one possibility is that individuals known to be part of al Qaeda who are under surveillance or who have been captured have revealed either inadvertently or under interrogation a connection to one of the Hamids. That's just a possibility. There is no information in the public domain yet to suggest that.
But certainly many individuals in the United States who get arrested we find out about from their contacts abroad and trace those contacts back into the United States.
HEMMER: Put all of this together for us if you could. What do you think we're dealing with in Lodi, Richard?
FALKENRATH: I think we're dealing with some al Qaeda sympathizers and low-grade potential operatives. The two Hamids do not, based on what's in the public domain now, don't look to me like the sort of hardened operatives that have carried out the most serious attacks of the past. They're more, if they were ever to carry out an attack, it would probably be a smaller attack, nothing quite as spectacular as we saw on 9/11, of course.
But the other part of this is this is the FBI doing its job. Its job is to leave no stone unturned in the United States in the hunt for potential al Qaeda operatives and sympathizers. And they have looked nationwide at just about every lead they could possibly find, and here they have found one. And they've reached a stage where they filed some charges and gone public with it.
HEMMER: Richard, thanks for your time. Thanks for trying to put it all together for us, too. Richard Falkenrath down there in D.C.
FALKENRATH: Thank you.
HEMMER: We'll talk to you later.
Stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security -- Carol.
COSTELLO: And still to come, interest rates are once again the focus today as Federal Reserve Chair Alan Greenspan heads to Capitol Hill. And no more yellow coveralls for Ronald McDonald. The fast food mascot is getting a sporty makeover. We'll have all of the details for you ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Word now from McDonald's that Ronald is about to get a lean and healthy makeover. That story and a preview of today's action on Wall Street, Andy is here "Minding Your Business."
I just can't imagine Ronald McDonald looking any other way than he does now.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Svelte is the world. I mean, snugger-fitting outfits, athletic.
COSTELLO: Lycra?
SERWER: Yes.
HEMMER: Track suit?
SERWER: Be afraid.
COSTELLO: Track suit?
SERWER: We'll get it to that in a second.
Let's talk about the markets first of all, Carol. Yesterday, a pair of sixes on the board, but to the south side unfortunately. Red ink. And here's what's going on. Yesterday, stocks slipped because the White House reduced its forecast of economic growth for the balance of the year. Now, if these guys can't be cheerleaders, who can?
Today, traders and investors are going to be waiting for 10:00 Eastern. That's when Alan Greenspan testifies before Congress. Look for him to talk about interest rates. It's expected the fed will raise rates for the ninth time later this month.
And changing gears here a little bit. Ronald McDonald, yes, McDonald's is saying that he's going to get a makeover. Kind of a long overdue. This is the old Ronald. He's been around for 42 years, the baggy kind of overweight. And this is the new -- new Ronald.
COSTELLO: Oh, come on.
SERWER: Look at that. He's thin. He's dropped about, what? I think he's dropped about 120 pounds. He's going to be snowboarding. He's going to be shooting hoops, playing soccer. And here is what else he's going to be doing; juggling fruits and vegetables.
COSTELLO: So, he's going to be playing soccer...
SERWER: Juggling fruits and vegetables.
COSTELLO: ... in striped leotards. SERWER: Yes. I mean, that will attract a little attention. You don't see the Burger King guy doing that.
COSTELLO: Bill just said he looks like Carrot Top, the comedian.
SERWER: Yes. No, I know Carrot Top.
HEMMER: (INAUDIBLE) up there.
SERWER: Yes. I kind of -- well, he doesn't look like Carrot Top.
HEMMER: He does. Separated at birth.
SERWER: You think so? Carrot Top is skinny.
HEMMER: Will you give it to me, Carol?
COSTELLO: OK.
SERWER: Yes.
COSTELLO: I give it to Bill.
SERWER: Just give it to him. Let him go.
COSTELLO: Thank you, Andy.
SERWER: You're welcome.
HEMMER: Here's Jack now with the "Question of the Day."
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush is visiting a police training center in Columbus, Ohio, later today as part of his effort to persuade Congress not only to renew the Patriot Act but to make it permanent. Key provisions are set to expire at the end of the year, including expanded powers for FBI search and surveillance.
Tuesday, the Senate Intelligence Committee approved revisions to the Patriot Act that would allow the FBI to subpoena records in terrorism investigations without the approval of a judge or a grand jury.
The question is this: Should the Patriot Act become a permanent law?
Kevin in New Jersey says: "Yes. Those of us who don't break the law say bring it on if it will keep us safer. Just don't abuse it."
Pamela in Michigan: "If the Patriot Act becomes a permanent law, it would be the first time in history that the American public let fear consume and eliminate their civil liberties."
Greg in Colorado: "There are currently questions about whether our president lied to us and to Congress to get the power to declare war. Until those questions are answered I believe the Patriot Act should be put on hold."
David in Florida writes: "No, because that assumes we will never win the war on terrorism. I have more faith in our military than that."
And Wayne in New Jersey writes: "There is nothing patriotic about turning America into a police state. History shows that when given the chance, the government abuses its powers."
SERWER: So what additional laws do we need anyway to investigate terrorists?
CAFFERTY: Just enforce the ones we have.
SERWER: Right. I mean, you know, if someone is suspected of being a terrorist, you can bring them in, interrogate them, possibly detain them. I mean, I'm not sure,
COSTELLO: But now you don't have to bother going to a judge. You can just like...
SERWER: To get a wiretap or something like that?
COSTELLO: To get his records.
SERWER: Right.
COSTELLO: Like, let's say, you're going to the doctor, and you have your health records somewhere. That means maybe that they can go in and just take your records without going to a judge first.
SERWER: I hope they don't do that for me.
CAFFERTY: Rush Limbaugh might be a little worried about whether this thing...
COSTELLO: Well, let's move along now.
There are new developments out of Aruba this morning. Authorities have made three new arrests in the Natalee Holloway case. We'll have the latest in a live report. That's next on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: In a moment, a brother's sacrifice. Meet a man who lost his wife and daughter for helping to get his brother out of Cuba. Their story still to come next hour on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Good morning. There are new developments out of Aruba in the case of the missing teen, Natalee Holloway. Three men first questioned and then released have been arrested. A live report from the island nation in a moment here.
Also, in the Caribbean the first named storm of the hurricane season. We're tracking Tropical Storm Arlene today.
And could the nation's milk supply be at risk for terrorism? A CNN "Security Watch" is ahead on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
HEMMER: Good morning, everybody. I'm Bill hemmer along with...
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Carol Costello in for Soledad.
HEMMER: We've got a lot to talk about this hour. We're going to move it right along and get to it. First, Jack is coming up in the "File" too.
CAFFERTY: Thank you, Bill. Coming up "The Cafferty File," we have pictures of people impersonating pork chops. These actually are pretty cute. The House Ethics Committee, the House Ethics Committee calls it quits after working exactly one day this entire year. And the poster child for bad plastic surgery takes a shot at Robert Redford.
COSTELLO: Who would that be? Oh, you can't tell. We have a new idea.
HEMMER: See, these are called teases.
COSTELLO: I know.
HEMMER: OK. Thank you, Jack.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
Aired June 9, 2005 - 07:29 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: It's about 7:30 here in New York. And good morning, everyone. I'm Bill Hemmer.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Carol Costello, in for Soledad today.
In a few hours the Michael Jackson jury starts its fourth day of deliberations this week, and it will be a short one.
HEMMER: Yes. You know why?
COSTELLO: Why?
HEMMER: Because some of the jurors have high school graduations for the kids, and so they're going to work a half-day out there in California.
COSTELLO: That was nice of the judge.
HEMMER: Good work if you can get it, right? Also, more on this flap between members of the Jackson camp about who's saying what to whom. And Anne Bremner is going to sort that out for us.
First, though, the headlines. Valerie Morris with us today.
Good morning, Val.
VALERIE MORRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning to you, Bill and Carol. Good morning, everyone.
"Now in the News."
We have been telling you about this breaking news story out of Aruba. Within the past hour, we learned police have arrested three more suspects in the disappearance of high school student Natalee Holloway. Two other suspects arrested Sunday will also remain behind bars after a judge ruled there's enough evidence to hold them. Natalee Holloway disappeared May 30. The search for her resumes this morning. Her family has vowed to remain on the island until she is found. And we will, of course, be bringing you the very latest on this story.
There are also new developments out of California. There could be more arrests as authorities look into a possible terror plot. A fifth person was detained Wednesday near Sacramento as part of the investigation. The FBI says the investigation has uncovered possible ties to al Qaeda, and at least one of the suspects may have received terror training overseas.
British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw is in Baghdad today for meetings with senior Iraqi officials. Straw met with Iraq's president and also greeted the staff at the British embassy in Iraq. The visit comes ahead of a conference in Brussels, looking at development issues in Iraq.
And another one of President Bush's judicial nominees is close to being confirmed. Senators are set to vote today on the nomination of former Alabama Attorney General William Pryor. And Judge Janice Rogers Brown was confirmed to a federal appeals court Wednesday. Her nomination had been blocked for nearly two years.
The U.S. embassy in Australia has been closed as a precautionary measure. Police say they're investigating envelopes containing a suspicious white powder that were sent to a total of five embassies in Australia. Authorities say two of the packages were found to be harmless, but tests are still being done. All of the embassies affected have troops in Iraq, though police say they have not found out a motive.
Now let's check back on the weather.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: Well, the jury is still out in Michael Jackson's trial. The panel of eight women and four men return for a fifth day of deliberations today. It will be a short day, however. We'll explain that in a moment.
Meanwhile, this controversy outside the courthouse has drawn a sharp response from Jackson's defense team.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER (voice over): The latest twist in the Michael Jackson trial has nothing to do with the jury, but instead who speaks for the pop star. Several days of interviews by the Reverend Jesse Jackson and others reportedly have the Jackson camp up in arms. At a courthouse news conference Wednesday, spokeswoman Ramone Bain insisted she had the blessing of Jackson's lead attorney to talk to the media.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tom Mesereau is very furious that you're even here; also furious at Reverend Jackson for showing up. He wants to the thing buttoned-up and make this as quiet and professional as possible. So, why you here when he, in fact, I'm told, doesn't want you out here?
RAMONE BAIN, FAMILY SPOKESWOMAN: If Mr. Mesereau didn't want me here I wouldn't be here. So don't listen to so many rumors.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) your presence?
BAIN: Yes, he is. I never speak to the media without talking to Tom Mesereau, because I understand, quite unlike many of you, that this is a serious situation. And so, therefore, if I had not spoken to our team, I would not be here.
HEMMER: Not long after, attorney Tom Mesereau issued a statement saying: "I have not authorized anyone to speak or hold any press conferences on behalf of Michael Jackson or his family. A gag order is in effect, which the defense team will continue to honor."
Jackson's family posted a similar statement on his Web site, saying: "The efforts of Michael Jackson's friends and supporters are noticed and very much appreciated at this time. However, only Michael Jackson's attorneys of record have been authorized to speak on his behalf."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
So, where are we today now? Attorney Anne Bremner is back with us outside the courthouse.
Anne, good morning out there in Santa Maria, California. Ramone Bain comes out and talks again. What gives here? Was she in violation of a gag order? Did she have Mesereau's blessing? Or how do you figure it out?
ANNE BREMNER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it's not very clear. It sounds like that there was a real issue about whether she had Mesereau's blessings.
And with this gag order in place, I think Mesereau wants to be very, very careful about any violations. And his statement was very clear. I have not authorized anyone to speak on behalf of Michael Jackson.
Every time Thomas Mesereau got up to examine a witness or cross- examine a witness, he would say this: I'm Thomas Mesereau, and I speak for Michael Jackson. And only Thomas Mesereau should speak for Michael Jackson.
HEMMER: Well, it may seem like a small matter now and a bit of a circus outside the courthouse, which just adds to the circus that was under way anyway.
BREMNER: Right.
HEMMER: But if somebody is under violation, it could become a much bigger story. Do you see it going that way?
BREMNER: Well, it could. And I think that Mesereau just wanted to stop that, because, you know, this judge has been very, very, very strict about the gag order. And, you know, right behind me, Bill, is where the jury takes their breaks. And it's kind of a pen area. I mean it's just within a stone's throw from me. And the judge is piping in music so the jurors can't hear a lot of these public statements that are being made out here and what the fans are chanting. I mean, they should not be influenced in any way in this case.
HEMMER: Well, you know, that raises an interesting question. Should this jury have been sequestered for deliberations?
BREMNER: It's starting to seem that way, just because there is so much going on out here it's just zany. You know, there's the chance of Michael's innocence, you know, fight Michael fight. And then Jesse Jackson out here comparing the searches at Neverland to the Branch Davidian raids in Waco. You know, the last time I looked at Neverland, it's not on fire. But that's what he's saying. And this is all happening within a stone's throw of this outdoor area, where they take three breaks a day.
HEMMER: And these jurors, they enter and they leave the courthouse. They see this. They're exposed to it.
BREMNER: That's right.
HEMMER: The judge is trying to do something to prevent them from hearing it. It's a pretty difficult task to do, apparently. Then they're going home to their families at night. And this is the talk on every news channel that you turn on every night. So, if you want the information, clearly it's there for the taking if you are a juror on this panel.
Another question here about a half-day for the jurors.
BREMNER: Right.
HEMMER: What, high school graduations? What's happening?
BREMNER: Well, remember yesterday we were talking with Jeffrey Toobin. He didn't want the verdict yesterday, because it's the sixth grade graduation of his son. Well, today is high school graduation in Santa Maria. Santa Maria high school, the Santa Maria Saints. And so at 11:00 the jurors will be done for the day.
HEMMER: Do you accept that?
BREMNER: Well, I think, you know, frankly with a deliberating jury, I think that they should have, you know, full hours, you know, probably longer hours, and that nothing should interfere. But this, I guess, they knew about for some time, and the judge said they can take part of the day off.
Yesterday, I thought, was the day they'd have a verdict. And they did look serious when they were leaving. They were dressed up. I always think that's an indication they could be ready to deliver a verdict, especially in a high-profile case where they may give a press conference. Will they give one today? I don't know on a short day. But it could happen. They look like they're getting near to a verdict.
HEMMER: Thanks, Anne. Anne Bremer out in Santa Maria, California. Keep reading the tea leaves for us.
BREMNER: My pleasure.
HEMMER: OK. Talk to you later. BREMNER: Yes.
HEMMER: Here's Carol.
COSTELLO: All right, thank you, Bill.
Police in Arkansas are investigating a teenage drinking party. Get this: They found a DVD. It was titled "Fight Night." Here it is. It shows local high school students boxing at a makeshift ring. And I don't know if you'll see them, but there are also two girls on this DVD in bikinis, and they are mud wrestling. Oh, there they are. Investigators say they learned of the incident when a teacher got a hold of a copy of the DVD and gave it to police. It's still not known who sponsored the party, but an official says participants were charged admission, and organizers apparently planned to put copies of the DVD out for sale.
It could be New Jersey's first shark attack in 30 years. It's believed a surfer off Long Beach Island north of Atlantic City was bitten by a shark. The 17-year-old surfer says he paddled back to shore and was taken to the hospital by his brother.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RYAN HORTON, SHARK ATTACK SURVIVOR: It felt like a baseball had whacked my foot. And then I looked over at it, and there was just a huge chunk missing. The only reason I think that it had gotten me, because maybe I was disturbing its territory.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: He ended up with 50 stitches to close a three-inch gash. While the surfer says he never saw what got him, officials believe the wound may have come from either a young great white or a sandbar shark.
HEMMER: New Jersey.
COSTELLO: Unbelievable.
HEMMER: We don't hear that every day, yes.
One of the most famous corporate icons in the world gets a sporty makeover. Andy shows that in a moment, "Minding Your Business."
COSTELLO: And five arrests now in a northern California terror probe. Could they lead investigators to al Qaeda's big fish? A CNN "Security Watch" next on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: More now on today's "Security Watch" and a possible al Qaeda plot inside here of the U.S. So far, five men in Lodi, California, have been picked up on various charges. Federal agents say that investigation has been going on for several years, and it's likely to lead to more people. Richard Falkenrath is a CNN security analyst, also the follower deputy White House homeland security adviser, live in our D.C. bureau.
Richard, good morning.
RICHARD FALKENRATH, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: Here is what the FBI was putting out yesterday, and it's changed a little bit a day later: "Hamid stated that during his weapons training, photos of various high-ranking U.S. political figures, including President Bush, would be pasted on the targets."
It continues, "Hamid advised that he specifically requested to come to the United States to carry out his jihad mission."
Then it goes to the next line: "Potential targets for attack would include hospitals and large food stores."
That last line there, "hospitals and large food stores," apparently is now being pulled back by the FBI. Why would they back away from that part of the statement, Richard?
FALKENRATH: Well, I'm not exactly sure, but I think it's because the owners of hospitals and food stores were getting very worried about a possible threat against those targets. And the government wasn't ready to validate what Hamid said voluntarily in these interviews.
You know, this information is coming from Hamid himself, which he gave apparently in interrogation with the FBI. And that's really not a very good source for a sort of public threat advisory, which is what this has become, given all of the publicity it's received over the past 24 hours.
HEMMER: Are you suggesting this is one source, this is only Hamid, his words?
FALKENRATH: My understanding from the news reports on this is that the source of this information is Hamid himself in his interviews with the FBI. That information was contained in an affidavit signed by the FBI and unsealed yesterday, which is why it's now in the public domain.
HEMMER: Let's get to this other issue, another arrest made last night, a 19-year-old son of one of the Imans. What do you make of that? And how likely is it that in Lodi, California, you've got a sleeper cell?
FALKENRATH: Well, it's entirely possible anywhere in the country where you have large Muslim populations, frankly. And these populations, like in Lodi and elsewhere, have been contacted by the FBI, and in some cases under surveillance by the FBI since 9/1, some cases even before 9/11.
So, it's not impossible that these are individuals of concern with possible contacts with al Qaeda and others. Detaining them on immigration violations is the easiest thing for the federal government to do, because it doesn't require the same sort of revealing of information that you do if you detain them under criminal charges, as the other two guys were.
HEMMER: How long could you hold them on immigration violations?
FALKENRATH: It varies, and it's not entirely up to the administration. The judge -- there's also a judge involved in deciding. It depends on what the violation is, and that information has not yet been revealed.
HEMMER: You say it's possible this information first came out of Pakistan. What gives you that hunch, Richard?
FALKENRATH: Well, any number of ways the government could have gotten on the two Hamids. And one possibility is that individuals known to be part of al Qaeda who are under surveillance or who have been captured have revealed either inadvertently or under interrogation a connection to one of the Hamids. That's just a possibility. There is no information in the public domain yet to suggest that.
But certainly many individuals in the United States who get arrested we find out about from their contacts abroad and trace those contacts back into the United States.
HEMMER: Put all of this together for us if you could. What do you think we're dealing with in Lodi, Richard?
FALKENRATH: I think we're dealing with some al Qaeda sympathizers and low-grade potential operatives. The two Hamids do not, based on what's in the public domain now, don't look to me like the sort of hardened operatives that have carried out the most serious attacks of the past. They're more, if they were ever to carry out an attack, it would probably be a smaller attack, nothing quite as spectacular as we saw on 9/11, of course.
But the other part of this is this is the FBI doing its job. Its job is to leave no stone unturned in the United States in the hunt for potential al Qaeda operatives and sympathizers. And they have looked nationwide at just about every lead they could possibly find, and here they have found one. And they've reached a stage where they filed some charges and gone public with it.
HEMMER: Richard, thanks for your time. Thanks for trying to put it all together for us, too. Richard Falkenrath down there in D.C.
FALKENRATH: Thank you.
HEMMER: We'll talk to you later.
Stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security -- Carol.
COSTELLO: And still to come, interest rates are once again the focus today as Federal Reserve Chair Alan Greenspan heads to Capitol Hill. And no more yellow coveralls for Ronald McDonald. The fast food mascot is getting a sporty makeover. We'll have all of the details for you ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Word now from McDonald's that Ronald is about to get a lean and healthy makeover. That story and a preview of today's action on Wall Street, Andy is here "Minding Your Business."
I just can't imagine Ronald McDonald looking any other way than he does now.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Svelte is the world. I mean, snugger-fitting outfits, athletic.
COSTELLO: Lycra?
SERWER: Yes.
HEMMER: Track suit?
SERWER: Be afraid.
COSTELLO: Track suit?
SERWER: We'll get it to that in a second.
Let's talk about the markets first of all, Carol. Yesterday, a pair of sixes on the board, but to the south side unfortunately. Red ink. And here's what's going on. Yesterday, stocks slipped because the White House reduced its forecast of economic growth for the balance of the year. Now, if these guys can't be cheerleaders, who can?
Today, traders and investors are going to be waiting for 10:00 Eastern. That's when Alan Greenspan testifies before Congress. Look for him to talk about interest rates. It's expected the fed will raise rates for the ninth time later this month.
And changing gears here a little bit. Ronald McDonald, yes, McDonald's is saying that he's going to get a makeover. Kind of a long overdue. This is the old Ronald. He's been around for 42 years, the baggy kind of overweight. And this is the new -- new Ronald.
COSTELLO: Oh, come on.
SERWER: Look at that. He's thin. He's dropped about, what? I think he's dropped about 120 pounds. He's going to be snowboarding. He's going to be shooting hoops, playing soccer. And here is what else he's going to be doing; juggling fruits and vegetables.
COSTELLO: So, he's going to be playing soccer...
SERWER: Juggling fruits and vegetables.
COSTELLO: ... in striped leotards. SERWER: Yes. I mean, that will attract a little attention. You don't see the Burger King guy doing that.
COSTELLO: Bill just said he looks like Carrot Top, the comedian.
SERWER: Yes. No, I know Carrot Top.
HEMMER: (INAUDIBLE) up there.
SERWER: Yes. I kind of -- well, he doesn't look like Carrot Top.
HEMMER: He does. Separated at birth.
SERWER: You think so? Carrot Top is skinny.
HEMMER: Will you give it to me, Carol?
COSTELLO: OK.
SERWER: Yes.
COSTELLO: I give it to Bill.
SERWER: Just give it to him. Let him go.
COSTELLO: Thank you, Andy.
SERWER: You're welcome.
HEMMER: Here's Jack now with the "Question of the Day."
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush is visiting a police training center in Columbus, Ohio, later today as part of his effort to persuade Congress not only to renew the Patriot Act but to make it permanent. Key provisions are set to expire at the end of the year, including expanded powers for FBI search and surveillance.
Tuesday, the Senate Intelligence Committee approved revisions to the Patriot Act that would allow the FBI to subpoena records in terrorism investigations without the approval of a judge or a grand jury.
The question is this: Should the Patriot Act become a permanent law?
Kevin in New Jersey says: "Yes. Those of us who don't break the law say bring it on if it will keep us safer. Just don't abuse it."
Pamela in Michigan: "If the Patriot Act becomes a permanent law, it would be the first time in history that the American public let fear consume and eliminate their civil liberties."
Greg in Colorado: "There are currently questions about whether our president lied to us and to Congress to get the power to declare war. Until those questions are answered I believe the Patriot Act should be put on hold."
David in Florida writes: "No, because that assumes we will never win the war on terrorism. I have more faith in our military than that."
And Wayne in New Jersey writes: "There is nothing patriotic about turning America into a police state. History shows that when given the chance, the government abuses its powers."
SERWER: So what additional laws do we need anyway to investigate terrorists?
CAFFERTY: Just enforce the ones we have.
SERWER: Right. I mean, you know, if someone is suspected of being a terrorist, you can bring them in, interrogate them, possibly detain them. I mean, I'm not sure,
COSTELLO: But now you don't have to bother going to a judge. You can just like...
SERWER: To get a wiretap or something like that?
COSTELLO: To get his records.
SERWER: Right.
COSTELLO: Like, let's say, you're going to the doctor, and you have your health records somewhere. That means maybe that they can go in and just take your records without going to a judge first.
SERWER: I hope they don't do that for me.
CAFFERTY: Rush Limbaugh might be a little worried about whether this thing...
COSTELLO: Well, let's move along now.
There are new developments out of Aruba this morning. Authorities have made three new arrests in the Natalee Holloway case. We'll have the latest in a live report. That's next on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: In a moment, a brother's sacrifice. Meet a man who lost his wife and daughter for helping to get his brother out of Cuba. Their story still to come next hour on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Good morning. There are new developments out of Aruba in the case of the missing teen, Natalee Holloway. Three men first questioned and then released have been arrested. A live report from the island nation in a moment here.
Also, in the Caribbean the first named storm of the hurricane season. We're tracking Tropical Storm Arlene today.
And could the nation's milk supply be at risk for terrorism? A CNN "Security Watch" is ahead on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
HEMMER: Good morning, everybody. I'm Bill hemmer along with...
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Carol Costello in for Soledad.
HEMMER: We've got a lot to talk about this hour. We're going to move it right along and get to it. First, Jack is coming up in the "File" too.
CAFFERTY: Thank you, Bill. Coming up "The Cafferty File," we have pictures of people impersonating pork chops. These actually are pretty cute. The House Ethics Committee, the House Ethics Committee calls it quits after working exactly one day this entire year. And the poster child for bad plastic surgery takes a shot at Robert Redford.
COSTELLO: Who would that be? Oh, you can't tell. We have a new idea.
HEMMER: See, these are called teases.
COSTELLO: I know.
HEMMER: OK. Thank you, Jack.
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