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Wildfires Rage in Four Southern California Counties; Discussion with Tom DeLay's Attorney

Aired September 29, 2005 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Republicans sizing up the damage after Congressman Tom DeLay is indicted for conspiracy. Looking at the GOP's next move on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Miles O'Brien.

M. O'BRIEN: Good morning to you. I'm Miles O'Brien. Thanks for being with us.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Carol Costello in for Soledad. We'll get back to New Orleans in just a moment. But there is a developing story out West.

M. O'BRIEN: Californians in four Los Angeles counties are threatened by several out of control wildfires. At least one home and other buildings have been destroyed. Hundreds have been evacuated. The largest fire is burning in the San Fernando Valley town of Chatsworth.

That's just north of Los Angeles, as you zoom in and see the satellite images from Google Earth, here. You get a sense of what we're talking about here. Dan Simon is on the ground near Chatsworth and he has the latest for us now.

Dan, are firefighters making progress?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miles, they're doing the very best they can. These guys have been up all night trying to battle the blaze and there's going to be some fresh crews coming in just a short while. You can see over my shoulder the flames really kicking up now.

As a matter of fact, the winds have sort of picked up, and that is bad news for these firefighters as they try to contain this blaze. So far, just 5 percent contained. The latest estimate as we know right now is that 7,000 acres have been charred. We're going to get a briefing in the next few minutes, and that acreage is going to go way up, we're told.

Several hundred people have been evacuated. We've seen folks milling about here trying to get a sense as to what's going on with their homes. They've sort of congregated around us, because we have the information. I spoke to one gentleman who, last night was told to evacuate. He grabbed all of his belongings, at least, packed a bunch in the car and he's obviously, a nervous wreck, wondering what's going to happen with his house. But once again, firefighters really actively trying to contain this blaze, 5 percent contained. They've been doing air drops during the night, which is a bit unusual. It's a bit dangerous for these helicopters to do these air drops at night because the power lines, they can't really see them. Because of the concern, because of the amount of flames that we're dealing with, they really felt it was necessary. We're going to keep an eye on this and bring you the very latest a bit later on. Miles?

M. O'BRIEN: Dan Simon in the northern suburbs of Los Angeles, thank you very much. Carol?

COSTELLO: The White House says it can work with Congressman Roy Blunt. Blunt is stepping in as House majority leader now that Tom DeLay has temporarily set aside. DeLay was indicted Wednesday, accused of conspiracy to break campaign finance laws. Congressional Correspondent Joe Johns live on Capitol Hill this morning.

So, where do Republicans go from here?

JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's a good question. You know, it's bad timing for Republicans in the short term and the long-term, Carol.

Tom DeLay obviously a big conservative force here on Capitol Hill, having to step away from his job at a time when the Congress has to deal with funding for Hurricane Katrina, as well as spending issues, how to keep the spending down, all of that in the short term.

In the long-term, it's a big problem for Republicans as well. They have the midterm elections coming up next year. They do expect to get hit by charges that there's a culture of corruption on Capitol Hill, something Democrats are already talking about. The speaker of the House, himself, addressing that issue saying, in his view, people should basically let this go through the legal process, and don't Judge Tom Delay until it's all over.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DENNIS HASTER (R) HOUSE SPEAKER: We do have a system. I hope everybody understands that you are innocent until you're proven guilty, and he will fight this. And we give him our utmost support, but the conference has to go on. We have work to do. We have an agenda that we want to move through.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: Congressman Roy Blunt of Missouri takes over as temporary majority leader while Tom Delay deals with his legal issues. No clear word on how long it's going to take before those legal issues are resolved. There is some betting, however, that the case, if it goes to trial, will not go to trial until sometime next year. Carol?

COSTELLO: OK, so I don't mean to sound -- maybe I do sound mean to sound crass. The Democrats are rubbing their hands together with glee. What else are they doing to use this to their advantage? HENRY: They're starting out with a news conference, news conference today to talk about the culture of corruption. They began with press releases certainly hitting the same issue. You have to realize also, Senator Bill Frist, the majority leader in the United States Senate has also come under investigation because of questions about his stock sale and whether he might have been involved in insider trading.

Of course, he denies any wrongdoing. Nonetheless, it is something for Democrats to talk about and I'm sure they will.

COSTELLO: I'm sure you're right. Joe Johns reporting live from Capitol Hill. In a few minutes we'll hear from Tom DeLay's lawyer.

M. O'BRIEN: The full Senate votes on Judge John Roberts as chief justice of the United States, his confirmation really a foregone conclusion at this point. The same cannot be said, however, for the other Supreme Court vacancy. Bob Franken on Capitol Hill this morning.

Bob, when will we hear of the next nominee?

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The best betting is early next week and after President Bush names that selection, well, I think people in Washington are going to have to look for cover.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN (voice over): The fight over the chief justice has been barely a squabble, compared to what we can expect over the next Supreme Court nominee.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R-SC): There's all kinds of jockeying already about what the president should do, and what he shouldn't do.

FRANKEN: President Bush will be trying to replace Associate Justice Sandra Day O'Connor and her swing vote with someone who could tilt the court rightward. The president's playing it very close to the vest.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The list is wide open, which should create some good speculation here in Washington. And make sure you notice when I said that, I looked right at Al Gonzalez and you can really create speculation.

FRANKEN: Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez has always been on a perceived short list as the possible first Hispanic justice.

EDWARD LAZARUS, SUPREME COURT EXPERT: It would seem unlikely that President Bush is going to put up another right male to replace now Sandra Day O'Connor.

FRANKEN: Some of the women who are widely discussed include Edith Jones, appeals court judge from Texas, an outspoken opponent of abortion; Janice Rogers Brown on the D.C. Circuit Court, ditto, Maura Corrigan of the Michigan Supreme Court, an open admirer of Antonin Scalia; Karen Williams, another federal appeals judge, or none of the above. In any case, look for a confirmation, shredded.

SEN. RICHARD BUR (R-NC): If we aren't careful, no one will want that job.

FRANKEN: The president's selection is expected to be made public almost immediately after Roberts is sworn in.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN: Look for that to happen perhaps next Monday and then the Democrats will decide whether they want to have a full-blown filibuster, which would make the Republicans decide whether they want to exercise that so-called nuclear option.

M. O'BRIEN: Ah, the rhetoric returns. Bob Franken, thank you very much. Carol?

COSTELLO: Today marks one month since Hurricane Katrina devastated New Orleans. The city is making some progress. Soledad got a chance to walk through the convention center to see how the cleanup efforts were going there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR, AMERICAN MORNING: It's been a month, one month anniversary of Hurricane Katrina is on Thursday. What's changed? Well, my voice. We've been breathing in a lot of allergens and mold and mildew, so we're kind of losing our voices.

Let's walk you through, again, the convention center. Remember, we took you on the tour to show you where all of the people camped out. Let's walk back through and see the progress that's been made, or not made, in a month.

Woo! Well, it still smells, although this time it smells of rotting garbage, and you can see some small piles of it. It's not kind of the smell of bodies, which was really prevalent the last time around, but it smells pretty bad. In a way, it looks like there's been no progress, but let's see what they're doing in here.

Wow! A bulldozer. Guys in Hazmat suits. Some of the damage and you can tell clearly the carpet's got to go. One can only imagine what's growing inside of there.

Remember, we showed you the chairs, people were sitting in circles, and that was in part to try to protect their family groups, because there was a lot going on, a lot of people and a lot of chaos, frankly, right here in the convention center. You can see they piled up all the chairs, and it looks like they're starting to make a little bit of progress here.

I can't -- I can't really describe how bad it smells. And luckily, I can't really breathe very well, anyway. So we're probably not getting the worst of it, but it's pretty bad.

Do you remember this scene? We saw all the people come out, and it was this scene that we could see on the Thursday after Katrina struck, from the air, the helicopter showed us just how many people had come here to try to get some kind of help, and obviously, they've done a lot of work here. There's nobody here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: OK, we're worried. We want Soledad to wear her mask from now on. Hopefully her voice will be better tomorrow.

M. O'BRIEN: We hope.

Another sign of progress to tell you about in New Orleans, though Mayor Nagin has given the green light for residents to return, people who live in these eight zip codes can return to their homes Friday. Business owners in those zip codes are allowed back in today.

(WEATHER FORECAST)

M. O'BRIEN: Let's take a look at a live picture now, or we just got a few moments ago. You remember our interview. This is tape, with our Coast Guard heroes. After they took a few moments and we were glad to have them to talk about their heroic efforts to save folks, there in and around New Orleans. They went off into the sunset. Who were those masked pilots?

No, they did a great job, and we just wanted to tell you they're on their way. Another day in and around New Orleans, in their office.

One month after Katrina hit, thousands of New Orleans evacuees are still scattered across the country. We'll talk to one couple who decided to make a fresh start in the Mile-High City, of all places.

COSTELLO: Also the fight over Mississippi's hurricane-wrecked casino business. Will the state let the industry rebuild?

M. O'BRIEN: Next, more on the indictment of Congressman Tom DeLay. DeLay's lead attorney will join us live. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TOM DELAY (R-TX): This is one of the weakest, most baseless indictments in American history. It's a sham and Mr. Earle knows it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

M. O'BRIEN: Congressman DeLay reacting to his indictment Wednesday, over claims he conspired to break campaign finance rules. Dick Deguerin, Tom DeLay's attorney. He joins us from Austin, Texas.

Mr. Deguerin, good to have you with us.

DICK DEGUERIN, TOM DELAY'S ATTORNEY: Good morning, Miles. M. O'BRIEN: Let's try to if you could, if it is at all possible, to separate the politics here for a moment. I don't know if that is possible.

DEGUERIN: That's impossible to do.

M. O'BRIEN: This is a liberal Democrat district attorney and I understand all of the implications of all of that, and all of the cases he has attempted in the past, aimed at Republicans. I'd like to get to the facts of this case, if we could.

DEGUERIN: Sure.

M. O'BRIEN: Is there any basic facts that there was corporate funds taken in, some $155,000, brought into this pack, which Tom DeLay was founder and on the board of, and out it went to the Republican National Committee in Washington and then back it went to some people running for state office in Texas?

DEGUERIN: No.

M. O'BRIEN: Those facts are not disputed, are they?

DEGUERIN: Yeah, they are.

M. O'BRIEN: OK.

DEGUERIN: The money did not come back to Texas. The money went out from Washington to places where corporate money could be lawfully donated. What came to Texas was money that had been donated by individuals, and that money can be used for individual races in Texas.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, but was there kind of a clever little laundering swap of money there?

DEGUERIN: No. Not at all. In fact it's done all the time. The Democrats do it. The Republicans do it. What happened was there was money that could not be used in Texas, and that money was kept separate, completely separate from the money that could be used in Texas.

M. O'BRIEN: And can you prove that?

DEGUERIN: Oh, sure. The bank records show it. There's a firewall between the corporate money bank account and the personal money bank account, and that's -- the lawyers that have been representing Tom DeLay laid that out for the district attorney, but it didn't seem to make any difference to him.

M. O'BRIEN: Somewhere in there is a case because the grand jury has handed up an indictment here.

DEGUERIN: That doesn't mean much.

M. O'BRIEN: Were they completely bamboozled -- what do you mean that doesn't mean much? These are fellow citizens, our fellow citizens, who made a decision there's enough there to press forward with a trial, right?

DEGUERIN: Well, sure, there is. If a judge lets it go to trial, if the judge doesn't dismiss it outright. It's not hard for a district attorney to get an indictment, the old saying is a district attorney can get an indictment against a ham sandwich. What's happened here is the indictment itself is the goal for Mr. Earle.

M. O'BRIEN: Who we're seeing on screen right now, I just want to point out to our viewers. Go ahead.

DEGUERIN: The indictment is the goal because it does what Ronnie Earle is trying to do, and that is remove Tom DeLay from his position of leadership.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, in Texas, you're probably a little more used to this than we are. In Texas they play politics in a very hardball style.

DEGUERIN: It's a blood sport down here.

M. O'BRIEN: It's a blood sport and we're all getting a taste of that right now.

But having said all that, when it comes time, in a court of law, to defend this case, you can't talk necessarily about politics. You need to talk about what Mr. Delay knew and when he knew it.

DEGUERIN: Yeah. And that's right and he didn't have anything to do with the transfer of the money. The transfer of the money was not unlawful, but he didn't have anything to do with it at the time, didn't know about it at the time. He did create TRIM Pact, Texas for Republican Majority. And with that he changed the face of politics in Texas. That's what got him in this mess because Ronnie Earl doesn't like that.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. There is this, however. Mr. Delay, when look at the big picture here, has gone back to that hardball, we just talked about. Has always gone -- I mean you'd be able to admit he's gone right to the edge of what is allowable, and some of his critics suggest he's crossed that line. Is that going to make it difficult for you to defend him through all of this?

DEGUERIN: Whether you agree or disagree with Tom DeLay's politics or his hardball playing, you know, they call him the hammer.

M. O'BRIEN: I've heard that.

DEGUERIN: Whether you agree or disagree with it, in the end, he didn't do anything wrong. He didn't violate the law. There was no violation of the law, and I think a fair jury will find that. I think the judge might even throw it out.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Dick Deguerin, we'll see soon. I know you want a speedy trial, might see this in December?

DEGUERIN: I hope so. I hope we can get to trial that quickly. This needs to be resolved quickly.

M. O'BRIEN: Dick Deguerin, thanks for your time.

DEGUERIN: You're welcome. Thank you.

M. O'BRIEN: Carol?

COSTELLO: Still to come, is Mississippi's casino industry about to run out of luck? A closer look at the controversy whether to rebuild after Katrina. That's next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: One month after Katrina smashed into Mississippi's floating gambling boats, the state legislature has opened a special session on how to salvage the industry. The issue, should the casinos be moved ashore? Joining us now from Las Vegas is Gary Loveman, he is the chairman and CEO of Harrah's Entertainment.

Which has more than one property there, right, Mr. Loveman?

GARY LOVEMAN, CHRM. & CEO, HARRAH'S ENTERTAINMENT: We did. We had one in Biloxi and one in Gulfport.

M. O'BRIEN: Question for you, this is big business in Mississippi, $2.7 billion in revenue. One way or another, whether it is floating or on land you're going to reopen, aren't you?

LOVEMAN: Not necessarily. I don't have a strong taste for putting another business on water. This doesn't provide any benefit to the public. It puts the business at risk. I think the insurance consequences of being back in the water are very forbidding.

So we hope that the legislature will follow through with the governor's direction to allow us to build just across the highway on land. It's only a matter of a few hundred feet away.

M. O'BRIEN: Right, but just talking about that for just a moment, still it's a very profitable business. And I'm sure there's one way or another you can self-insure, insure somehow or build smaller boats that you could steam out of harm's way.

LOVEMAN: I'm sure somebody will. For our company, we're a very large company, we can invest anywhere in the world that we choose to do so. I would just suggest it's a far more attractive investment for us there, if we're able to build a substantial facility on land.

Ironically, Miles, what it will do is allow us to have more non- gaming amenities, this is the piece our critics have a hard time getting their head around. If we're allowed to build on land there will be, on a pro rata basis, less gambling and more of everything else, more hotels, more food and beverage, more entertainment, more swimming pools. We will true resort facilities.

M. O'BRIEN: You already have the non-gambling portion of these resorts on land, anyway, so that -- I don't know how that necessarily equates. You already do that kind of thing, don't you?

LOVEMAN: No, not nearly to the degree you find in Las Vegas or Atlantic City. Having to put these things on the water and having all of the ingress and egress, and customer activity approximate to the shoreline makes it much more difficult and much more expensive to build. We'd rather invest the money and build a much grander and much more compelling facility on land, where it's sensible to do so, and offers as many attractions to our guests as possible.

M. O'BRIEN: If you were 1,500 feet off the breakers there, for this storm, you still would have had a whale of a lot of damage.

LOVEMAN: Well, we would have had some damage but we wouldn't have had everything destroyed in the fashion that we did. We would have certainly incurred some damage, but as you've seen on the pictures that your network has covered our vessels were literally picked out, brought out to sea, and then taken across the highway and thrown into people's homes.

M. O'BRIEN: They looked like bathtub toys.

LOVEMAN: They floated like bathtub toys.

M. O'BRIEN: The question on -- people who are critical of gambling in Mississippi, would say, what you're just saying there is a bit disingenuous because you're going to open up regardless. And you're pressuring the legislature into establishing a beachhead for gaming and that concerns them. How do you respond to that?

LOVEMAN: This is one of the oddest compromises in American political history. My view is that if you want to have gambling, let's have it, and let's do it well, let's do it safely and let's do it productively. If the state says they choose not to have gambling that's fine. There are many states that have that point of view and I'm entirely comfortable with that.

The notion that a compromise exists by having gambling, but putting it in an awkward and in this case, a largely unsafe place just strikes me as a compromise that has no benefit to the parties involved.

I think Mississippi wants to have gambling. Let's do it right and do it in a way everybody wins.

M. O'BRIEN: Can you assure those on the religious right, who are concerned about this, once you get your 1,500 feet off the beach, this isn't just Normandy, and you're on your way inland?

LOVEMAN: We don't have any interest in -- (LAUGHTER) I like the metaphor somehow marching our way through Mississippi. Maybe we'll be responsible for reconstruction. No, we have no intention of doing that. States have always limited places -- other than Nevada, have limited where casinos can be located and we're comfortable with that.

M. O'BRIEN: Tell us -- this is very important to the economy in Mississippi. It is the single largest generator of income for people, is it not?

LOVEMAN: I think it is. We're the second largest employer in Mississippi. I know that and there are 14,000 jobs currently unoccupied on the Gulf Coast alone.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Gary Loveman, who is the Chairman and CEO of Harrah's Entertainment, thanks for your time.

LOVEMAN: My pleasure, Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Carol?

COSTELLO: Still to come, more on that developing story in Southern California. A wildfire has forced hundreds of people to evacuate. We'll get an update from the Los Angeles County Fire Department, just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Get the latest news every morning in your e-mail. Sign up for AMERICAN MORNING QUICK NEWS at cnn.com/am.

Still to come, Chief Justice Nominee John Roberts expected to be confirmed today. What can he expect once he takes over the reins? We'll ask CNN Senior Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin, that's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Just about half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING. Good morning to you. I'm Miles O'Brien.

COSTELLO: I'm Carol Costello in for Soledad O'Brien today.

M. O'BRIEN: Soledad lost her voice in New Orleans. Thanks for being here. Appreciate it.

Coming up, we could have a new chief justice of the U.S. by the end of the day and there he is, driving a mini van. A Senate confirmation vote for John Roberts is scheduled for this morning. Swearing in ceremony could come quickly thereafter. We'll talk about this important transition with Jeff Toobin, in just a moment.

Commerce Secretary Carlos Koteras (ph) is ringing the opening bell on Wall Street. And he timed it perfectly, thank you. The Dow Jones industrial average starts trading at 10,473. That's up 16 points. At the Nasdaq, the composite index, opens 2,115, down just over a point. Mixed session, as they say, yesterday.

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