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American Morning

Aftermath & Aftershock; Republican Woes

Aired October 13, 2005 - 08:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(WEATHER REPORT)
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's cast our attention a little bit toward Pakistan, where this morning the focus, in many respects, has shifted from a rescue to a recovery effort and helping those who are left homeless; 2.5 million people are without homes, onset of winter there. And even if they had a structure to be safe to be in, who would want to be there given the fact that there's still aftershocks being felt. So 2.5 million tents need to be pitched for people who are affected by this terrible earthquake that happened over the weekend, mostly in Pakistan.

CNN's Becky Anderson has been there almost since the outset. She joins us from Islamabad with more on those efforts.

And, Becky, when last we spoke, you were talking about the big, heavy digging equipment that was behind you which is, obviously, so crucial now, it's needed in so many places, and on the other hand, you want to go slowly in case somebody is a survivor there. So This must be difficult for people to make decisions about how to use this equipment and where to move it to.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You make an extremely good point. There is an awful lot of pressure on the military here and the British search-and-rescue team to really wind up the operation here in Islamabad in the center of the city, where the apartment complex collapsed.

Miraculously, let me tell you, they have just called for silence once again. This is into the sixth day. There are 35 unaccounted for people in the debris there, and they are still hoping they may pull people out alive. They haven't done that, Miles, for some 24 to 36 hours at this point.

But you're absolutely right, they need this heavy digging equipment now away from this site and up into the north where the real story is. It's up here into the mountains, and that is where we're seeing reality setting in as mass graves are established there in towns like Muzaffarabad, which has been accessed by the relief effort, the international relief effort which is well underway, and fairly well coordinated at this stage, 85 helicopters involved, eight of those are American, 70 of them are from the Pakistan military.

We move on from somewhere like Muzaffarabad into towns, remote villages like Bague (ph) for example, and it's there that aid isn't reaching the people who really need it the most. There are people effectively entombed now in the debris of their schools, their offices and their homes. So a really extraordinarily difficult situation, not just for the rescue teams and the relief workers, of course, because we are probably at the end of the rescue stage at this point, into relief, and in months to come into a reconstruction phase.

But so, so difficult for those who are involved, of course. The relief operation, as I say, is now filtering up to some of the main towns and cities.

Let me give you context for this. There are some 5,000 villages up to the north of here, up into Pakistan-controlled Kashmir, into the Kashmir territory, and it's extremely difficult to get to those towns. And you need helicopters to do it. So a very, very difficult situation, as we speak, here in Pakistan. The government under an awful lot of pressure, both politically and on the humanitarian side, tough for them, tough for the rescue workers here. Much, much harder for those who are still there and are homeless at this point -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: CNN's Becky Anderson in Islamabad, thank you very much.

(NEWSBREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the president. We're going to hear from the president in a little bit. He's going to talk about Iraq, but that's all part of the context of this whole controversy over Harriet Miers. The president has gone out of his way, with Harriet Miers being his White House counsel, and with a blank slate judicially, because she's never been a judge, to talk about her religious convictions. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: People are interested to know why I picked Harriet Miers. They want to know Harriet Miers' background. They want to know as much as they can before they form opinions. Part of Harriet Miers' life is her religion, part of it has to do with the fact that she was a pioneer woman and a trail blazer in the law in Texas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

M. O'BRIEN: All right. But remember, John Roberts. John Roberts a practicing Roman Catholic, lots of questions about whether his Roman Catholicism might impact his decision making. At that time, the White House said religion has nothing to do with it. David Gergen joining us now to sort out what appears to us to be a little bit of an inconsistency.

He joins us from Boston, Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, also an editor-at-large for "U.S. News and World Report," a man with a very thick resume, I should say.

David, good to have you back with us.

DAVID GERGEN, "U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT": Thank you, Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: You know, I think part of this is, John Roberts is a tough act to follow.

GERGEN: Absolutely. You never want to follow a tough act. And it's interesting, "The Wall Street Journal" and NBC has a poll out this morning that shows that about 24 percent of the people in the country think that Harriet Miers is not qualified, about 25 percent, or a little more, think she is, and about half the country doesn't know. That's the highest number of people to say someone's unqualified of any recent justice, stretching all the way back to Robert Bork, when 12 percent said he was not qualified.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, you know, certainly in Robert Bork's case, I mean, this was a man with the qualifications. There were other issues there.

GERGEN: Right.

M. O'BRIEN: But the fact is, yes, she does not resonate well, if you will, on that level, at least to people.

GERGEN: That's right. That's why they say she's the least qualified of all the ones we've seen recently.

M. O'BRIEN: The question is, in the absence of, you know, qualifications, for lack of a better term, and the absence of a resume, go to religion. Do you think that's a good tactic on the part of the administration?

GERGEN: No. I think they're -- I think it's very risky. The president is clearly trying to dampen a conservative fire around Harriet Miers, but in injecting the issue of religion, her religious beliefs, he's only throwing gasoline on the fire and making it worse.

M. O'BRIEN: How?

GERGEN: Well, first of all, it is in such conflict with the John Roberts' nomination when they downplayed his religion, said it was irrelevant to his qualifications for the court, and secondly, Miles, it raises this very troublesome issue, and that is the president has been arguing all along that Harriet Miers will argue strictly from the law and the Constitution. That would be the basis for her decisionmaking on the court, if she's there. Now by raising the religious issue, there's an implication she may turn to her religious faith, that we can -- that the conservatives can trust her because of her religious faith to bring conservative views to interpretations, in other words, to look beyond the constitution. That's exactly what he's been saying justices should not do; they should not legislate from the bench.

So it's one of these conflicts, you can't have it both ways. You can't say she's going to be all about the law, but look at this over here, she's very religious, and now we can trust her to be conservative. It doesn't work.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, so I almost think 100 percent of the time I ask you this question. If you're in the White House, what would your advice be in this situation? Would you say, look, we've got to cut our losses now, let's withdraw this nomination?

GERGEN: I wouldn't do that now. I think she -- in fact, I'm beginning to feel sympathetic to this poor woman. She is an honorable woman, after all; I just think her qualifications are thin.

I would work very hard to see if you can secure the votes on the Senate Judiciary Committee and shore that up, because I do think this. Her prospects are diminishing to make it to the court now, because this controversy rages on and on. I think that they have to build what support they can behind her so they can get out her out of committee. If she fails in committee, in other words, if she does not get a favorable vote in the Senate Judiciary Committee, and those hearings start in mid November, then I think there will be enormous pressure for her to withdraw. The prospects for her withdraw are higher today than they were two weeks ago, but I think the White House -- she deserves a chance for a hearing. The White House needs to build as much support for her as they can.

M. O'BRIEN: She definitely deserves the vote. Let's put this into larger context. Front page, "Washington Post" today, the SEC, Securities and Exchange Commission, issuing a subpoena to Bill Frist, Republican leader in the Senate. You've got Karl Rove dealing with this grand jury investigation, CIA leaks. You've got Tom DeLay with the indictment he now faces. You put all this together with the president's dealings with Iraq and the problems that are going on there, you almost have the sense that Republicans are on the ropes here. Am I overstating it?

GERGEN: They're not on the ropes, but this is the deepest trouble the president's been in for a long time. We now have a couple of public surveys showing his approval ratings down in the 30s, high 30s. It's about a 50 percent drop of where he was, and lowest point of his presidency by some distance. And he's in a deep hole. Can he climb out? Yes. But it's going to be very hard. It's going to take time. And I think that the problem he's got, Miles, is he's not in control in any of these things. He's not in control of the Frist investigation. The White House can't do anything about that. He's no in control of the DeLay investigation. He's not in control of the investigation into the CIA leak and whether Karl Rove or Scooter Libby or someone else is going to be called on that.

So that's a very bad place for a White House to be. If you're going to have mistakes or things you're accused of, in the White House you want of have control over them, so you can end them. Your damage control can effectively end the story, you know, cut the legs off, and they can't do that right now. So this is why I think -- this is the nadir of the Bush presidency. Give him a little time. Things have looked better in Iraq today than they looked a week ago because of some breakthroughs in the constitution. He's got a Fed chairman to name. He's got some other things he can get done here.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, sorry, we've to go. David Gergen, always a pleasure. Thanks for dropping by -- Soledad.

GERGEN: Thank you. S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, well, we warned you on Wednesday, you'll recall, that your heating bill is probably going to skyrocket this winter.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, I was listening to that.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, we've got details now, details on how exactly high it could go.

M. O'BRIEN: Do I want to know them? No, I don't, do I?

S. O'BRIEN: You might.

Short break. We're back in just a moment. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: This is a hot story. It was just handed to me by Andy Serwer who just came in from the newsroom with the latest -- actually yet another grim story about is what it is going to cost us to heat our homes. I was watching a piece yesterday about people buying these little sawdust pellets to heat their homes.

SERWER: Pellet stoves, yes.

M. O'BRIEN: Pellet stoves?

SERWER: Yes, pellet stoves.

M. O'BRIEN: You think they'd let me have that in the apartment, in the condo?

SERWER: No. No.

M. O'BRIEN: Probably not.

SERWER: No, they won't. You can't do those things in New York. And by the way, I thought you didn't want to hear this news. I was just listening. You were saying you didn't want to hear about how we have to pay for it.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, we always like to Eeyore back.

SERWER: Don't bury your head in the sand. You should start saving up. That's what people need to do for this winter, for these heating bills. New stuff coming out from the federal government. The Energy Information Administration breaking down heating costs by fuel, by region.

Let's go to the first screen and see where things stand, in terms of "nat gas," as they say -- natural gas. This is a map of the U.S., and you can see the various regions and how much more expensive it is going to be to heat your home on average in these regions, given a normal winter. Now, the Midwest and the South, particularly hard hit, Miles, you can see there there. Basically you are paying $500 or $600 last year to heat your home. Just double it up. M. O'BRIEN: You know, I hate to do this to you, but you said nat gas and it's heating oil up there on the screen. I just want to clarify. (INAUDIBLE) the viewers, OK.

SERWER: All right, well, we put the heating oil screen up first. OK. So, well, let's do that.

M. O'BRIEN: I'm here to serve, I'm here to help.

SERWER: You really are here to help. Southwest -- the South and Midwest, you can see, though, up a whole bunch there. And basically, you know, you know, you're up 30 percent, up 40 percent, and it's a lot. Can we go to the natural gas screen, perhaps?

M. O'BRIEN: There it is.

SERWER: The magic of television.

M. O'BRIEN: Brilliant.

SERWER: And you can see here, as I was suggesting, you will need to save money to pay your bills. That's really what it comes down to. And I have been talking to people who have started to actually do that, put aside a little bit more money. And I don't think it's a silly thing to do at all. And, you know, worst case scenario, well, these bills don't go up as high as anticipated. And, guess what, you have a little extra cash.

M. O'BRIEN: Oh, then you're going down to the mall -- the mall.

SERWER: You can have a spring break to Florida or something like that.

M. O'BRIEN: So, I was thinking about picking up litter in Riverdale and piling it up and using that for heat. Bad idea, though, right?

SERWER: Well, no. We New Yorkers appreciate the fact that you've moved here and are picking up litter. That's very nice, Miles, thank you very much. I don't know about burning it in the park. I think you'll get arrested pretty quickly.

M. O'BRIEN: It could be a problem, yes.

SERWER: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: Thank you for dropping by.

SERWER: You're welcome.

M. O'BRIEN: In a timely manner. We appreciate it.

In a moment, we'll go back to Alstead, New Hampshire, where the issue this morning -- I'm sure ultimately they're concerned about home heating, but right now, they've got some bigger issues to contend with, this terrible flooding. We've have a live report for you, next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.

M. O'BRIEN: NASA, NASA, Goddard Space Flight Institute. Taking a look at the polar ice caps and taking a look at temperatures.

S. O'BRIEN: Getting smaller.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, yes. "Washington Post" has a nice piece. First all, the polar ice cap shrank this summer to 200 million square miles. Now that seems like a lot...

S. O'BRIEN: Pretty giant.

M. O'BRIEN: Right. But that is 500,000 square miles less than the average between '79 and 2000. Ad for the indigenous people who rely on that sea ice for their hunting and everything, the ice is their land, this is a big deal. Meanwhile, 2005, in spite of what we just said about heating oil, 2005 will go on record as the hottest year ever.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, there are huge implications. Actually, we should bring Chad in here.

M. O'BRIEN: We should.

S. O'BRIEN: Because -- now is this, all of this, global warming, then, that we hear about, or no?

M. O'BRIEN: You know, I know you're a skeptic on this, Chad, but it's happening.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I'm a scientist on this thing. There could be a feedback mechanism on this, Miles. If you get more heat in the atmosphere, you therefore get more humidity. If you get more humidity, you get more cloud cover. More cloud cover bounces the sunshine back, and so you could be cooling the atmosphere at the same time. The only problem with that theory is that if you have thin clouds, the sun can get in and then the heat doesn't come back out. So we don't have all the answers to say no...

M. O'BRIEN: Well, no, no, no. We did -- now, let me just tell you this. It is true that the model which predict climate change and all those, do not really deal with clouds very well. That is true. But the fact is, the greenhouse gases, which we are injecting in the air, can do nothing but make matters worse. Would you agree with that?

MYERS: They absolutely -- the carbon dioxide absolutely holds more heat in. That's one of its...

S. O'BRIEN: And the take away is, if it gets warmer and the water gets warmer, all those hurricanes that you've been reporting on get worse and more devastating for the people as they run through hurricane alley. So this could be a huge problem five, ten, 20 plus years down the road.

MYERS: And if the ice melts, then the water level can also come back up. That much cold water melting ice in the ocean currents can disturb the current currents' flow.

M. O'BRIEN: Now that -- and then that's the day after tomorrow effect.

MYERS: Absolutely.

M. O'BRIEN: Which is -- if you saw that movie...

S. O'BRIEN: Bad news, yes.

MYERS: It is scary.

M. O'BRIEN: All right.

S. O'BRIEN: Chad, thank you.

MYERS: You're welcome.

M. O'BRIEN: Thank you, professor.

S. O'BRIEN: A short break.

M. O'BRIEN: Always a pleasure having him drop by, isn't it?

S. O'BRIEN: We update all the news stories, the breaking stories, as well, at the top of the hour. Back in just a moment. Stay with us. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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