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American Morning

Private Planes Return to Reagan National Airport; Harriet Miers In The Middle?; Saddam Hussein On Trial; Vitale Death Mystery; 'Minding Your Business'

Aired October 18, 2005 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: It a nice view.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The rain's cleared up.

MILES O'BRIEN: We have a nice view of Columbus Circle. Dams, timber dams. This is the 21th century and we're basically using beavers to protect our cities.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, come on.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: This is an old dam.

MILES O'BRIEN: Well, it's not it's an old oak dam. But, I mean, nevertheless . . .

COSTELLO: It was built back in the 1930s. This is Taunton, Massachusetts. There are 3,000 such dams in the state of Massachusetts.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Look who's been reading in on the . . .

MILES O'BRIEN: Smarty pants. We appreciate that little knowledge.

COSTELLO: I wanted to beat Miles for once.

MILES O'BRIEN: I'm trying to connect . . .

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: All right.

MILES O'BRIEN: Never mind.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: It actually, as much as we're laughing this morning, it's a dangerous situation.

MILES O'BRIEN: My point is this, infrastructure. They let the levees go in New Orleans. The pumps go in New Orleans. This country has got to address infrastructure issues. It's a big deal.

COSTELLO: No, it is a big deal. But when you think of the bridge . . .

MILES O'BRIEN: I'm off my soap box now.

COSTELLO: You're off your soap box. But when you think of the dam being there . . .

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: You said it, not me.

COSTELLO: Since the 1800s, it's worked pretty good so far. We just had an unusually heavy amount of rain.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: It's a huge problem for the folks there. You've got those stories a others this morning.

COSTELLO: Oh, yes, definitely. In fact, we're watching the situation just south of Boston this morning where that weakened dam could break at any moment now. The city of Taunton under a state of emergency. The National Guard now on call. Two thousand people have been evacuated. Now, if that dam bursts, it could unleash a wall of water up to six feet high, flooding neighborhoods and putting extra pressure on other dams. So let's bring in Chad. He's at the CNN Center with more on this and how much more rain they're expecting today.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: Turning our attention to Iraq now. Election officials are looking into whether there were too many "yes" votes in this weekend's referendum on the new constitution. Officials say results at at least a dozen provinces seem to be off, raising questions about possible voting irregularities. The electoral commission says it will take a few more days for the final results to be announced.

President Bush's approval ratings are sinking again. The latest CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup Poll shows just 39 percent of the people polled say they approve of the way the president is doing his job. That's down from 45 percent last month. And 58 percent say they disapprove of his job as president.

And the Houston-St. Louis tug of war for a shot of the World Series is now going into game six. The Astros were one out away from winning the National League Championship but Cardinals' Albert Pujols, is this guy not amazing? He launched a three-run homer in the ninth. Final score, Cardinals five, Houston four. Game six in St. Louis tomorrow.

MILES O'BRIEN: That could be the pivotal moment in that series. We may look back on that home run.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: That's when it all changed.

COSTELLO: Yes.

MILES O'BRIEN: I know. I'm pulling for the Cards. It's kind of fun to see them come back.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Yes.

Thanks, Carol.

MILES O'BRIEN: See you in a bit. Now, CNN "Security Watch" time. Something Washington hasn't' seen in quite a few years, private planes landing at Reagan National Airport. Why do we care if a fat cat can land in National Airport? Well, there are some security issues here folks. By the way, that was the first one that landed just a few moments ago. Homeland Security Correspondent Jeanne Meserve live at Reagan National Airport just outside of Washington.

Jeanne, it took a while for this rule change to happen. Why now?

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, because there's been a lot of pressure from the congressional delegation from Northern Virginia and the local business community. This certainly isn't a return to normalcy, but one could say it's a step in the right direction. About a half an hour ago, as you mentioned, the first general aviation flight to arrive here in more than four years did so. Those flights were suspended shortly after 9/11 because of concerns about security.

The 24 flights a day, they're going to be allowed to come in and out of Reagan National, will be operating under very heavy security restrictions. Flight and passenger crew lists are going to have to be submitted ahead of time so the TSA can vet them. The aircraft are going to have to go through 12 gateway airports elsewhere in the country before arriving here where the TSA will be able to search the planes, the crew and the passenger. Also, you're going to have armed law enforcement officers on board each one of these flights. Law enforcement officers who have been certified by the TSA.

Now the reasons for the security are pretty obvious if you look at the map. This airport is within very short flying distance of some very key landmarks, including the Pentagon, the White House, the Capitol, the Washington Monument. For those reasons, some security experts are a little bit concerned about the resumption of flights here. They feel that if something does go wrong, there would be a very short window of opportunity to respond to that.

But the business community and congressional delegation, as I mentioned, have been pushing for this. They feel it's been a drain on the local economy. One should mention, however, that clearly not everyone's going to be able to take advantage of the flight opportunities here. It is going to cost about $500 a day. The business community still feels this is very onerous, that the security is a little bit too heavy. But as one member of Congress mentioned this mornings, you have to walk before you can run.

Miles, back to you.

MILES O'BRIEN: All right. Some tight restrictions there on those flights. Thank you, Jeanne.

Say tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

Soledad. SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Well, the White House efforts to sell a Supreme Court nominee, which has already been pretty stormy, got a little more stormy yesterday. This after a conversation between the nominee, Harriet Miers, and Senator Arlen Specter. Jeff Toobin's going to joins us this morning to talk about all of this.

It's perplexing on top of it. Let's first talk about this conversation that Arlen Specter said that he had with the Supreme Court nominee, Harriet Miers, who's been going around meeting with senators.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What she said, according to Arlen Specter, was that she endorses the results, supports the Griswold Case, which is a very important case about the right to privacy and that leads to the right to abortion.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: So after he had made that public, the White House apparently came out and said, oh, actually, he's going to redact or take away that statement.

TOOBIN: Well, which he then did not do.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Right.

TOOBIN: (INAUDIBLE).

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: But let's he released a statement. He didn't hold a here's exactly what he said.

TOOBIN: Right.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: "Ms. Miers called him to say that he misunderstood her, and that she had not taken a position on Griswold," this privacy case, "or the privacy issue. Senator Specter accepts Ms. Miers' statement that he misunderstood what she said."

This is not a, my bad, I misunderstood I got it wrong.

TOOBIN: If you know anything about Arlen Specter, Allen Specter does not think he misunderstands what people say. He's a very self- confident person and he is not someone who is going to acknowledge that he didn't understand a legal issue that frankly I am sure he knows a lot more about than Harriet Miers does.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Because, of course, this is his field of expertise, (INAUDIBLE) Constitution.

TOOBIN: Correct. Correct. And why this is important. The Griswold Case, a 1965 Supreme Court decision, there was a law in Connecticut that said married couples could not buy birth control. And the Supreme Court in 1965, for the first time, said, under the Constitution, there is a right to privacy and this law in Connecticut violates married people's right to privacy.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: So if you support that law, ergo it goes that you would support a Roe v. Wade because that was sort of based on somewhat this case, Griswold.

TOOBIN: Many people who support Roe v. Wade also support Griswold. Just because you support Griswold, it does not guarantee that you will support Roe, but it is certainly an indication.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: A little bit of a litmus test.

TOOBIN: And that's why people care so much about Griswold now because it is sort of like a proxy for Roe.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Arlen Specter supports abortion rights. So in this conversation that took place, didn't take place, I'm not really sure considering everybody's statements about it. What do you think is a bigger implication here? Is he saying that she's trying to play both sides, talking to a supporter of abortion rights, saying I support Griswold, when the White House is saying to conservatives, she's very religious, she would clearly not support abortion rights?

TOOBIN: See, this is the problem with nominating someone who has no record. It's because her record is starting to come out in these piecemeal conversations where apparently no one is precisely sure what is said. And what makes this particular incident so bad, I think, is that it alienates everyone because pro choice people like Specter, like most people in the United States and most people in the Senate, say, come on, Griswold, I mean do you really think the government can ban birth control? I mean, that is such a basic fundamental right that most Americans expect they have, that it seems crazy that someone wouldn't support that. Yet, the anti-abortion people, who are obviously very important as well, say, well, come on, why are you nominated to the court if you are not going to reject the right to privacy which creates Roe?

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: We're out of time, but I'm going to ask you a final question anyway. Which is, do you think that all of this will be made clear in the hearings before the senators eventually? Or do you think she's going to say, I'm not going to tell you how I would rule on a case?

TOOBIN: John Roberts, who was our nearest precedent, said he did support Griswold and did support the right to privacy but he wouldn't commit himself on Roe. I think you're likely to see a similar formation from Harriet Miers.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: We'll see. All right, Jeff Toobin, thanks for explaining it.

Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN: It's hard to imagine the stakes being any higher when it comes to the trial of Saddam Hussein, which is set to begin tomorrow. If things go poorly, it could potentially embolden the insurgency, unleash outright civil war. If it goes well, it could do a lot to quell that very insurgency. Michael Scharf is a professor of law at Case Western University. He helped to train the judges and prosecutors of the Iraqi special tribunal. He joins us now from Cleveland. Mr. Scharf, good to have you with us.

Let's talk about this first case that is being levied against Saddam Hussein. Lay out the basics and tell us why this case is first.

MICHAEL SCHARF, LEGAL ADVISER TO HUSSEIN TRIBUNAL: Well, they began with a very minor case in the scheme of all the things that Saddam Hussein has been accused of. This case involves Saddam Hussein's visit to a town called Dujail in 1982. While his motorcade was going through the town, there was an assassination attempt on his life. Terrorists and insurgents came out of the date (ph) palms (ph) and tried to machine gun him down. Later, a couple of days, he ordered that the down be demolished. They arrested several thousand people, kept them in jail a couple of years, tortured them. They killed a couple of hundred others without trial. They destroyed all the date palms and all the buildings.

So he's being tried for this very specific incident. But there's only 150 or so deaths involved. Whereas, with the other things like the Anpaul (ph) campaign and the attacks on the southern Marsh Arabs (ph) there are hundreds of thousands of casualties.

MILES O'BRIEN: All right, 150 deaths should count as well. There is a fair amount of evidence here, including some videotape which we have recently acquired here at CNN, which shows Saddam on the site in Dujail immediately after this assassination attempt offering up a bit of an on-the-spot inquisition to people there. You can just see the fear of their eyes here. This in and of itself is not evidence but there is a fair amount of documentary witness and forensic evidence, isn't there?

SCHARF: There is quite a bit. And some of the witnesses who were victims that survived the atrocity will come into the court and tell their harrowing stories. Some of the subordinates in the chain of command will talk about what happened. And the documentaries and the films are very much like what was recently released in The Hague trial of Slobodan Milosevic and the Srebrenica massacre. And those had an effect really deterring the support for him and his popular opinion in Serbia plummeted. And I guess the hope is that something similar will happen and the support for the insurgency will dry up when the people in Iraq see this video.

MILES O'BRIEN: What should gut tell you? A lot of people would have suggested that The Hague or some sort of international tribunal would have been more appropriate for Saddam Hussein given the teetering nature of Iraq right now especially. Have you changed your thoughts on that at all?

SCHARF: Well, I'm a big advocate of international trials. And originally I said that would of been the more appropriate venue. But the truth was that The Hague wasn't available as a trial site because certain parties of the security council that have a veto, namely Russia and France, said that they would not allow the U.N. to set up a trial in The Hague for Saddam Hussein. And the permanent international criminal court, which is also in The Hague, was not available because its statute says it cannot try any cases that were committed before July 1, 2002.

So the only alternative was to have an Iraqi trial. And what this is, is really an internationalized trial in Iraq. They're using the statutes of the Yugoslavia tribunal and Rwanda tribunal. They're using the rules of procedure, which are the high standards of due process anywhere in the world and those are going to be applied by Iraqi judges.

MILES O'BRIEN: We're looking the pictures new this morning of the actual courtroom where it will occur. What are we apt to see? Are we going to see Saddam Hussein, who by a lot of estimations is a megalomaniac, are we going to see him, as Milosevic did, try to defend himself?

SCHARF: Well, Saddam Hussein has said that that is his intention. But they actually amended the statute of the Iraqi special tribunal on August 11th in order to say that he had to act through a lawyer because they were very concerned that he would try to highjack the proceedings.

But even through a lawyer, this is a real concern. Even if the judges are able to keep control of the courtroom, the lawyers are really committed to trying to turn this trial into a political statement. And they could do that outside of court, on the courtroom steps. And really they're trying to focus on what the United States did more than what Saddam Hussein has done.

MILES O'BRIEN: All right. Quick, out of time kind of response here if you would. What does your gut tell you? Will this trial go well?

SCHARF: I think a trial of this magnitude is likely to be messy. But, in the end, I don't think there will be a miscarriage of justice.

MILES O'BRIEN: Michael Scharf, professor of law at Case Western University. Thanks for your time. The trial is set to begin tomorrow, as we just told you. And, of course, extensive live coverage right here on CNN and AMERICAN MORNING.

Soledad.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, we're going to hear from a longtime friend of Daniel Horowitz. He's the high-profile lawyer whose wife was beaten to death. We'll talk about any leads in that case.

Also ahead this morning, flu season just around the corner. Will you be able to get your flu shot this year? Andy's got a look at that ahead. We're back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Who killed Pamela Vitale? She was the wife of the famous criminal attorney, Daniel Horowitz. Ivan Golde is a friend and co-counsel of Daniel Horowitz. He's in San Francisco this morning. Good morning. Thanks for talking with us.

A coworker, a friend, and I also know that you knew Pamela Vitale as well. So our condolences to you. What a horrific situation to be dealing with.

I know that the trial you were working on has now been declared a mistrial. Is there anything sense that there was any connection between Pamela's brutal beating to death and that trial?

IVAN GOLDE, CO-COUNSEL WITH HOROWITZ: No, I don't think so. I really don't. You never know for sure about anything, but I am confident that is not the case. There was no connection whatsoever. The authorities are zeroing in on somebody else, but no one specific to the Polk (ph) case. We don't feel there's a connection there.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Who are they zeroing in on? So far the authorities haven't said.

GOLDE: They haven't said but there is a gentleman who lives close and near the property, a Mr. Lynch. Again, I don't want to comment specifically on the investigation. However, they have zeroed in on one gentlemen, Mr. Lynch. Mr. Horowitz had a restraining order against him. And the police are looking into him, they're talking to him.

Things are still up in the air right now. But let me tell you this, the Contra Costa County Sheriff's Department is doing an excellent job investigating this crime and they will find the perpetrator. They will find that perpetrator.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: You're talking about Joseph Lynch, who has been described in some reports as a caretaker. I guess there was a restraining order but it was never actually filed. What kind of a relationship did Mr. Horowitz and Ms. Vitale have with Mr. Lynch?

GOLDE: Mr. Horowitz showed kindness to Mr. Lynch. Mr. Lynch was a troublemaker. Mr. Horowitz had trouble with Mr. Lynch. That restraining order was written up, it was never served, never filed. He could be a suspect. Again, I can't comment specifically. There were some threats to Pamela, some threats to Mr. Horowitz.

Let the Contra Costa County Sheriff's Department do their job. They'll do the right thing. They'll find the perpetrator. If anyone out there knows anything also, please contact the Contra Costa County Sheriff's Department.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: But it sounds to me like you're saying, and forgive me for interrupting you there, but it sounds like, to me, like you're saying Joseph Lynch killed Ms. Vitale. Is that what you're saying?

GOLDE: Look, I'm not doing the investigation. That's not my job. And I cannot comment it would be inappropriate for me to comment specifically. They are and they have looked at Mr. Lynch. He is a suspect. That's all I'm going to say at this point. I cannot make any conclusion. It would be inappropriate for me to do so. But he is somebody they are talking to and I'll just leave it at that.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: OK. They've been piecing together the time line. And one theory is that after that Pamela was killed after Mr. Horowitz went off to work and there was some kind of confrontation at the mobile home which was placed in front of the home that they were the dream home that they were building.

GOLDE: Yes.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Essentially, you are the alibi for your co- counsel. You were working together, is that right?

GOLDE: Yes. We had a meeting that morning. Dan Horowitz, two of our investigators, one of our secretaries, we were meeting and talking about the Polk case, going over all the materials, getting ready for trial. We had trial on Monday. So I saw Dan that entire morning and most of the afternoon.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: How is he holding up? In reports, he is doing, obviously and understandably, just distraught.

GOLDE: Yes, he is, but Dan Horowitz will be OK. He is distraught. But there's been so much love, so much support. Dan is grieving. The Vitale family is grieving. But everyone has shown so much love that it's given strength to both the Vitale family and Dan's family. It's just a tragic situation. These are very difficult times but we'd like to thank everybody for all their support. And I really mean that from the bottom of my heart.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Ivan Golde is an attorney, a co-counsel really, and a friend as well, of Daniel Horowitz and Pamela Vitale.

Thanks for talking with us.

GOLDE: Thank you very much.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: You heard Mr. Golde mention the name Joseph Lynch. Well, Joseph Lynch, the neighbor, when he was asked about any involvement in the murder of Pamela Vitale said it was, "ridiculous." And also referred to the Horowitz's as his friends. The Contra Costa County Sheriff's Office says the investigation, in fact, is wide open and they're not focusing on any one individual at this time.

Still to come this morning, flu season. It's back and we're hearing a familiar song. Will the flu vaccine once again be hard to come by? Andy's "Minding Your Business" just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MILES O'BRIEN: We've been talking a lot about flu vaccines. Specifically we've been talking about bird flu, but this is the other kind of flu, right?

ANDY SERWER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. MILES O'BRIEN: Andy Serwer's talking about problems getting those vaccines out.

SERWER: That's right, I am. And Chron, you may remember this company. One of the three U.S. manufacturers of flu vaccine. Last year, they had problems. They had problems with their plant in Liverpool, England. Didn't have enough and caused shortages.

Guess what? Yesterday, the same company said they've got the same kind of problems at the same plant in Liverpool and they're not going to meet their forecast of flu vaccine. They were going to make 18 million to 26 million doses there. They're going to make now less than 18 million doses. The capacity of the plant's 40 million. They keep having problems there.

However, and I think we should really make this point.

MILES O'BRIEN: Yes.

SERWER: Unlike last year, experts say there is not going to be a shortage. We don't want to cause anyone to panic. Prices of the vaccine, however, are going to be up. Up as much as 25 percent from $20 to $25 in some cases. One thing to look into, I thought this was really interesting, Miles, Costco, you can go there. They're going to be giving the vaccine at cost, which is about $18. Of course, they want you to come in and shop. But still, it's kind of a hook.

MILES O'BRIEN: A conspiracy theorist might say this is one way to raise the price of the vaccine.

SERWER: Yes, well, there's a lot of stuff going on.

MILES O'BRIEN: But that's what a conspiracy theorist would say.

SERWER: Indeed.

MILES O'BRIEN: Maybe they need a vaccination against stupidity? It's possible.

SERWER: One might say that. One did.

MILES O'BRIEN: All right, maybe let's work let's try to create one.

SERWER: OK.

MILES O'BRIEN: We can retire.

In a moment, today's top stories, including a dam in danger of letting go. Thousands of people in a Massachusetts city are evacuating as we speak. We're live on this developing story ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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