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American Morning

Key Election Races; Prewar Intelligence; Riots Rage On In France; 'Minding Your Business'

Aired November 08, 2005 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The evil culprit.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's have some bacon.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: We were talking about breakfast.

MILES O'BRIEN: Let's order up some bacon.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Bacon, it's all about baking. If you guys could get right on that, we'd be grateful because we can't really move.

MILES O'BRIEN: Yes, (INAUDIBLE).

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Let's talk about election day. An off year election.

MILES O'BRIEN: Yes.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Mayor Bloomberg, I think we've got some pictures of him at the polls. I'm assuming voting for himself, but who really knows.

COSTELLO: No.

MILES O'BRIEN: You think?

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Yes, that's just a guess.

COSTELLO: Well, I bet he's not voting for Fernando Ferrer.

MILES O'BRIEN: Expensive election but, you know, what does he he's going to win by about 38 to one.

COSTELLO: Thirty-eight points. Yes.

MILES O'BRIEN: Thirty to one.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Yes, it looks like he's going to walk away with this election. Well, gee, is this a staged voting for him. There's only 10 million cameras there while the mayor votes. What a coincidence. That's a shocker. And, of course, there's lots of questions in other races as well. Virginia they're watching very closely because you've got two guys I mean really the race is almost about what happens to the White House.

MILES O'BRIEN: The president was there yesterday . . . SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Yes.

MILES O'BRIEN: Weighing in. But then New Jersey and oh . . .

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Oh, that's gotten ugly.

MILES O'BRIEN: Ugly.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Which means the ads are very entertaining in kind of a mean spirited kind of way.

MILES O'BRIEN: Yes, it's all about entertainment.

COSTELLO: Have no idea what the candidates stand for but you know about their ex-wives.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: And his ex-wife is pissed off, though. Jon Corzine's ex-wife. Oh, she's . . .

MILES O'BRIEN: Yes, not happy.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Clearly. Apparently not a nice divorce from what I can tell.

MILES O'BRIEN: Now we all know.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: But I'm just guessing.

In fact, let's continue talking about election day. The White House, of course, keeping a close eye on a few key races around the country. Some that we were just talking about. Suzanne Malveaux at the White House this morning.

Good morning to you, Suzanne.

Obviously, some big implications for President Bush, right?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, of course. I mean, this is considered a big test of the president as well. I mean, despite all of his political problems, the CIA leak investigation, the low approval numbers, the high gas prices, whether or not he really has outside the beltway or outside Washington appeal. That is the big test.

And, of course, everyone looking to the Virginia governor's race. It was before he even returned to the White House last night, returning from South America, he went to rally for the Republican candidate there. That, of course, Jerry Kilgore, the state's former attorney general, who is in a dead heat with Democratic Tim Kaine, the current lieutenant governor. And, of course, President Bush seems classic Bush, very energetic, upbeat. But the big question is whether or not he is going to tip the scales.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's got a record, so you can count on him. You know where he stands and you know he can get the job done. And equally important, you know he doesn't need to run a poll to tell him what to think.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Of course the big question is, how he's going to tip the polls. The president's appearance last night was really considered a bold and even risky move some feel on Kilgore's part. It was just a couple of weeks ago that Kilgore did not appear at an event the president actually held in Norfolk, Virginia. So all of this a big test to see whether or not the president actually hurts or helps those Republican candidates for 2006.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Boy, what does it say about the White House when it's considered a bold and risky move to invite the president to come and speak on your behalf?

MALVEAUX: Very telling.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: It just speaks volumes, doesn't it. Suzanne Malveaux at the White House for us this morning.

Suzanne, thanks.

Other stories making news. Carol has those.

COSTELLO: Yes, including the latest on France and what's happening in that country.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Oh, what a mess there.

COSTELLO: The violence has now spread to 300 towns. It's hard to get your mind around, I know. But authorities in France are now going to extreme measures to try to curb the nearly two weeks of violence in some of the country's poorest suburbs. Under a state of emergency law, local officials can now impose curfew to try and restore order. Overnight, rioters torched 1,200 cars. The U.S. State Department is warning Americans to stay away from the areas where the riots have taken place. We'll have more details on this story in just a minute.

In Indiana, people living in an area slammed by a tornado will be able to return to their wrecked homes by tomorrow. Residents will be allowed to go through the debris and salvage what they can. In the meantime, crews are draining a body of water, a pond adjacent to a leveled trailer park. They're searching for victims. The twister killed at least 22 people and wounded hundreds of others. Twenty people are still now officially missing.

A possible terror attack averted in Australia. Officials announced 17 men have been arrested in Melbourne in Sydney. That happened earlier this morning. They're suspected of plotting an attack, possibly a bombing. One of the suspects was shot by police during the raids.

A change of pace for the royals. Prince Charles and his wife Camilla, they're heading to a homeless shelter in San Francisco. The royal couple making a final stop on a somewhat ho-hum eight day tour of the United States. On Monday, the prince promoted environmental causes, calling on the United States to use its global power for the greater good.

And the legendary rock band Led Zeppelin getting a high honor. Finally! Back when rock 'n' roll was good, right? I'm sorry! They were so good. There is no rock 'n' roll now, although I do like the band McDillers (ph).

MILES O'BRIEN: Are you really a hard rocker?

COSTELLO: I really am.

MILES O'BRIEN: Good for you.

COSTELLO: Yes, I'm loving that!

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Good for you.

COSTELLO: Yes, I know. Anyway, Led Zeppelin, they've been awarded this Polar Music Prize. It's music's equivalent to the Nobel Prize. Past winners include the like of Dizzy Gillespie (ph) and Jody Mitchell (ph). Led Zeppelin . . .

MILES O'BRIEN: Dizzy Gillespie? What's Dizzy Gillespie doing on there?

COSTELLO: He . . .

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Jody Mitchell?

COSTELLO: It's an award for a great musician!

MILES O'BRIEN: A hard rock thing?

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Oh, OK, it's not a rock award.

MILES O'BRIEN: Oh, I'm sorry. I misunderstood.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Sorry, we're back with you. Go on.

COSTELLO: I'm getting a headache now. You guys need that bacon.

Anyway, Led Zeppelin will share the prize with a Russian conductor. They'll officially receive the honor at a gala event to be held in May of next year. Somehow a gala event doesn't go with Led Zeppelin. A gala event.

MILES O'BRIEN: Seems eclectic having them all there in that same room. What will they talk about, I wonder?

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: And have you heard of this award before, the Polar Music Award?

MILES O'BRIEN: No.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: It's as big as the Nobel Prize OK, uh-huh.

COSTELLO: OK. You didn't like my last story. I'm going home.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: No. No.

MILES O'BRIEN: We loved your story.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Led Zeppelin. Led Zeppelin. It's all about Led Zeppelin. Congratulations to each and every member of the band. We're very happy for them.

Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN: All right, onward we go. Lots of questions this morning about the way the Bush administration led the U.S. to war in Iraq and how that war has been weighed. Senator Carl Levin leading the charge on two fronts really, whether the administration cooked the books on intelligence leading up to the war and what tactics are (ph) in use to try to get intelligence out of prison. Is torture ever justified, that sort of thing. Michigan Democrat Carl Levin, a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee. He'll be meeting later this morning to talk about phase two of the investigation of prewar intelligence. He joins us from Washington.

Senator Levin, good to have you with us this morning.

SEN. CARL LEVIN, (D) INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Good morning.

MILES O'BRIEN: Let's talk about, first of all, the two paragraphs in that defense intelligence agency report that recently was declassified. I just want to share it with viewers. They're referring to captured terrorists Ivan Al Shak al Libby (ph). And it says, in essence, "he lacks specific details on the location where training occurred . . .it is more likely this individual is intentionally misleading the debriefers. Saddam's regime is intensely secular and is wary of Islamic revolutionary movements. Moreover, Baghdad is unlikely to provide assistance to a group it cannot control."

So that's what was circulating around people who had classified clearances before the war. A year after that came out though, listen to Colin Powell at the United Nations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Al Qaeda continues to have a deep interest in acquiring weapons of mass destruction. As with the story of Zarqawi and his network, I can trace the story of a senior terrorist operative telling how Iraq provided training in these weapons to al Qaeda.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MILES O'BRIEN: I don't know how you get from that report to that statement. Was the secretary of state misled or was he lying? LEVIN: Only the only Colin Powell can answer that. The same statement was made by the president of the United States who said that we've learned that Iraq has trained al Qaeda in chemical and biological weapons using the exact same source. The president of the United States told us that even though a year before his statement, the defense intelligence agency said that the source of that was bogus and was likely misleading us and making up stories. So they have to answer those questions. I have no idea, other than I think the administration's statements before the war were deceptive and misleading and this is part of that pattern.

MILES O'BRIEN: Were there other sources that we aren't aware of though on which they can hang this argument?

LEVIN: There were other sources that the that had rumors that were discounted. The other sources were not the sources relied upon for the statement that you just heard from Colin Powell or by the president. They were clearly relying on this one source who, prior to their statements, was said by the defense intelligence agency to be totally unreliable and probably lying.

The CIA said that there was a credible source, referring to this same person. However, what was left out when that use of the word "credible" was made was that the CIA pointed out that there was no direct evidence. It was totally hearsay.

So there's a lot of explaining here to do, which the administration will not own up to. They will not answer the question as to how could the president say that there was this training when, in fact, his own defense intelligence agency said the source was bogus?

MILES O'BRIEN: Let's talk about this. You have talked to several of the analysts involved in all of this. And, to a person, they have said they weren't pressured by the administration or told what to say. How do you explain that?

LEVIN: Actually, there were they did tell certain people, including the inspector general of the CIA, and including a man named Kerr (ph) who did the report for the CIA, that, as a matter of fact, they were pressured. Our committee was unable to determine or find evidence that they were pressured. But two other independent groups, including an inspector general and including the Kerr commission, found that, as a matter of fact, there was pressure on those analysts to reach a certain conclusion.

MILES O'BRIEN: All right. It's interesting, though, that you go through this report, you find this one paragraph. In essence, what the administration would say is, you're cherry picking as well, just as your allegation is that they were cherry picking. How do you respond to that?

LEVIN: By listing all of the other ways in which this administration exaggerated and distorted. When they said the aluminum tubes that Saddam Hussein was seeking could only be used to make nuclear material. That was not true. When the vice president said there was a meeting in Prague between the Iraq secret police and the man who was the head hijacker, Mohammed Atta. That was not supported by intelligence. Quite the opposite.

The CIA concluded at that meeting had not taken place when Colin Powell said that there are seven biological vans that are used to create biological material. That was not supported by the evidence. This is not just one item that is selected, there is a pattern of exaggeration, distortion, misleading statements by the administration prior to the war.

MILES O'BRIEN: Let's shift gears here slightly. Related subject. You're on record as suggesting there should be a 9/11 Commission style independent commission that looks into the issue of the Abu Ghraib issue, whether torture was used. And as part of that going through the Senate right now is a amendment which would bind the U.S. against using terror in the future in any way, shape, or form. The administration is pushing back on this. It says it doesn't want to surrender any options. And if we could just briefly listen to what the president had to say yesterday in Panama, I'd like you to respond to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are finding terrorists and bringing them to justice. We are gathering information about where the terrorists may be hiding. We are trying to disrupt their plots and plans. Anything we do to that effort, to that end in this effort, any activity we conduct is within the law. We do not torture.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MILES O'BRIEN: So the point the president makes is, a lot of good information comes out of this. American lives are saved by the tactics. Why change the rules now?

LEVIN: Well, we're not changing the rules. The law is very clear, you cannot use torture. If the president was saying, we are allowed to do anything we want to do, he's wrong. He is bound by the law.

We are not allowed to use certain kinds of tactics set forth in our law, including torture. And John McCain has said it very, very clearly and 90 senators support the McCain amendment that says that the Army manual standard of what techniques can be used against detainees is the standard which is binding on all of us, including the CIA. And 90 senators said that John McCain is right and the vice president and apparently the president say that John McCain is wrong.

I'll stand with John McCain any day when it comes to what are the proper techniques that can be used against prisoners. He knows firsthand what the effect is if we don't live up to our own standards. And if we don't apply our own standards to our own activities, we are giving up the case that we have to make to the world that terrorism is wrong. We need allies in this war and we lose those allies if we use the techniques that have been so offensively shown to have been used both at Guantanamo and at Abu Ghraib.

MILES O'BRIEN: Senator Carl Levin, Democrat at Michigan, thanks for your time, sir.

LEVIN: Good being with you, Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN: And in our next hour we will hear from Republican Senator John McCain and get his thoughts on this whole matter.

Soledad, we'll speak to him in just a little bit.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: That's ahead.

First, though, a look at the weather. Jacqui Jeras is at the CNN Center. She's got a look at that for us.

Hey, Jacqui, good morning.

(WEATHER REPORT)

MILES O'BRIEN: Coming up, poverty, racism and rage. A closer look at the reasons behind France's worst riots in almost 40 years. That's next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: More on those riots that took place overnight in France. It's now day 13. The French government is now allowing local officials to impose curfews. CNN's Chief International Correspondent Christiane Amanpour has more now on the reasons behind all that unrest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): It's the worst social unrest in France since the 1968 student uprising. The mayhem started in the bleak and neglected housing project just beyond the Paris city lights. An explosion of anger by the disaffected youths who live here after two of their own were electrocuted while hiding from what they believe was a police chase.

The government built these apartment blocks after World War II when they invited in tens of thousands of immigrants from Africa and Arab countries to fill low-skilled jobs. At the time, this was a step up from where they had come from. But now, the jobs are gone and people are left here without basic services, with second-rate education and, worse, with no employment. Indeed, the unemployment rate in these outer city ghettos is four times the national average.

As another nervous night falls on these graffiti garbage strewn blocks, we tried to get some answers. These young people tell us they do not support the violence. But Kareem (ph) says it's the only way they can express themselves. They are angry and upset. They're saying they're fed up. Fed up with a life, say Abdual Azeez (ph), that is just dreary survival. There's nothing for us, no jobs, he says. When we look for jobs, employers look at us. They want to know our origin, our address, and that's the end of that.

The French revolution's famous promise of liberty, equality, and fraternity has failed these young people who were born in France and have nowhere else to call home. Instead of integrating, they are now increasingly turning towards their own.

Back at the housing project, 54-year-old Husara (ph) tells us the authorities alienate these young people. As soon as the cops see a group of youngsters, she says, they start chasing them. They ask for their papers. When the kids shout that they're French, the cops insult them and throw their papers on the ground.

We hope it will improve, says Kareem, but the authorities have to do their part. They have to do something for the young to help them, instead of leaving them to rot in these ghettos. They need to help us get jobs and improve our lives, then things will calm down.

Christiane Amanpour, CNN, Vishsubwa (ph), France.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: A whole host of problems. Meanwhile, the U.S. State Department is not telling Americans to not travel to France, but it is alerting them to ongoing security concerns. You know, obviously, as you see these pictures of cars and even some buildings on fire.

MILES O'BRIEN: Well, you know, watching that you get a much greater understanding of the root cause of that. But what's interesting is, if that is allowed to fester over there, I mean, people like Musawi came right out of those places.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: It's an opportunity, certainly, for people who are trying to recruit young people who feel like they're stuck between a rock and a hard place. They have no options, they have no choices, they have no jobs, they have no money, they have no future, you know, and so they can be sort of ripe for the plucking, I think.

MILES O'BRIEN: I think the biggest weapon against the war on terror would be hope for some people.

Let's talk about 911 calls in New Orleans.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Yes, I think that's so interesting.

MILES O'BRIEN: Interesting piece in "The Washington Post" this morning. Basically here's the jest of it. In the midst of Katrina and all the confusion or surrounding there, 911 calls came in to basically a call center that had to be abandoned. And, ultimately, what happened was the calls were routed up to Baton Rouge (INAUDIBLE).

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: I mean, imagine you're calling in, oh, my God, we're on the roof. Someone come get us. Please help us. MILES O'BRIEN: Scenes like this.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: I mean we saw that all the time. And that call is sent to authorities in Baton Rouge who then have to figure out how to coordinate back and get a rescuer to where you are. Baton Rouge is not particularly close in an emergency, certainly, to New Orleans.

MILES O'BRIEN: Right. And no real communication to and fro. And what was interesting about it was, that there was some $1.2 billion that was appropriated by Congress to try to upgrade all these systems. The money has been spent and, you know, 9/11 in New York, apparently they had a backup call center which really helped out. And these systems, obviously, are kind of patchwork. Probably need to spend a little money to improve them.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: You know what, I guess at the end of the day in New Orleans, what they ended up using was sort of patchwork internet system where they could send through a secure internet Web site basically some of these requests. And I have to imagine that in the future, that's what the solution's going to look like. Something more high tech. Something that's very mobile. You don't have to have a call center. You're going to be able to move because, obviously, phones are going to fail. Obviously building are going to flood. Buildings are going to go on fire. In an emergency situation, you can't have the call center really fall apart just because of that.

MILES O'BRIEN: It's important link.

Coming up, we will talk about another story. Another nail in the coffin for illegal music downloads perhaps. Grokster is what we're talking about. Andy will tell us about the apparent demise of that organization, whatever you want to call it, next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Big victory for the record companies. They've been fighting this war against free music downloads. Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business" this morning.

Good morning.

ANDY SERWER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you.

We're talking about Grokster, which is the famous and some would say infamous peer-to-peer music Web site. Yesterday shutting itself down. This after losing a Supreme Court case which said it was complicate in violating copyright law. Also paying $50 million to the record companies. And they posted this sign, Soledad, on the Web site which read it's interesting. There are legal services for downloading music and movies. This service is not one of them.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: And is not anymore.

SERWER: No. And Grokster hopes to have a safe and legal service available soon. Have a nice day. And, you know, what we're seeing here, of course, is a change in this business. What's going on is Apple iTunes store is legit. They've got 600 million songs have been sold since inception. People really starting to go there but still doing these free download peer-to-peer businesses. It's not like it's going away. You kill Grokster and another one's going to pop up. But it is something that's changing and it's turning legit, I think it's safe to say.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Yes, you know, there are just other options for people.

SERWER: Right, there are.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: And, you know, who wants to be served with a legal notice?

SERWER: No. And we know the recording industry was doing that, as well.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: They sure were. People remember that, don't they?

SERWER: Absolutely.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Andy, thanks.

SERWER: You're welcome.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Ahead this morning, Senator John McCain will join us. He's got a new book out. This one's aimed at teenagers. We'll talk with him about that and also, you know, this question we always ask him, is he going to run for president in 2008?

SERWER: I say, yes.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: We'll see. That's the tease. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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