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Ahmed Chalabi Meeting With Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in Washington; Rioting in France

Aired November 09, 2005 - 08:33   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, let's move on. Ahmed Chalabi is meeting with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice today in Washington. Although he is a deputy prime minister in Iraq, he had fallen out of favor with the Bush administration, as you may recall. Is all of that forgiven or forgotten? Andrea Koppel live at the State Department with more on that.
Good morning, Andrea.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Miles.

Ahmed Chalabi used to be a familiar face in the halls of power here in Washington, a frequent visitor at the White House, the Pentagon and here at the State Department, but it has been two years since Chalabi's last visit to Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL (voice-over): Intelligent, articulate and fluent in English, the Bush administration believed Ahmad Chalabi could be Iraq's George Washington. Chalabi's stated goal of a Democratic Iraq and claims about WMD in Iraq put him in lockstep with the Pentagon and the White House.

AHMED CHALABI, IRAQI NATL. CONGRESS: There are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and Saddam had them, and he was developing them continuously.

KOPPEL: In January 2004, Chalabi was a guest of honor at President Bush's State of the Union Address. But just a few months later, when no WMD turned up, that special bond with Washington went south. U.S. and Iraqi forces raided his Baghdad home and office, suspecting he had leaked classified information to Iran. That caused some Democrats to call for Chalabi to testify before the Senate intelligence Committee.

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: i think that Mr. Chalabi is not someone who is trustworthy. I think he's highly manipulative.

KOPPEL: But 18 months and two Iraqi elections later, Chalabi still haven't been interviewed by the FBI and no charges are pending. Instead, he's now Iraq's deputy prime minister and the Bush administration's welcome mat is back out. Among those he is expected to meet this week, Treasury Secretary John Snow, and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. That's left Republican and Democratic critics alike scratching their heads, asking why? SEN. DICK DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: It is very difficult to track how this man, who gave us such misleading information before the invasion of Iraq, now under active investigation for endangering American troops, is now the toast of the town at the Department of Treasury and the Department of State. I don't follow their logic.

KOPPEL: Chalabi's supporters defend him, saying as a secular Shiite, he could be Iraq's next prime minister.

DIANE PLETKA, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INST.: Chalabi is a smart and a capable politician. He's gone a variety of different ways. What we want is for him to be our ally, and for him to do the right thing and for him to work with other Iraqis to do the right thing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: And the State Department defends Secretary Rice's decision to meet with Chalabi, saying he is an elected member of Iraq's government. As one U.S. official put it, it's not a question of black listing someone, but rather dealing with the hand that you're dealt -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Thanks very much, Andrea Koppel at the State Department -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: France now, 13th day of rioting across France. Although it does seem to be calming down quite a bit as firefighters continue to try to put out some of the 600 fires that were set last night.

Things, though, kind of turning the corner as a curfew was put into effect yesterday. Mohammed Mamdani is the founder of the Muslim Youth help line, and he is in town on a book tour. It's a support service for Muslim youth in the U.K.

Nice to talk to you. Thanks for being with us this morning.

Are you surprised when you see these pictures? And they're pretty dramatic. They're coming to us from France. Are you surprised it's come to this, the violence?

MOHAMMED MAMDANI, MUSLIM HELP HELPLINE: I think it's difficult to talk of surprise when you consider the situation of integration and the mindset of young people from the Muslim communities across the whole of Europe. In my experience, in the U.K., we had our own share of riots in the northern English city about five years ago, there is a great sense of disenchantment amongst young people, and frustrations have been boiling for a long, long time, for several years. And this is essentially the result of much repression or an exception that many young people feel that they are unheard, and they're not being listened to and they're concerns are being ignored by their own communities and by the government.

S. O'BRIEN: To some degree, I think it sounds like you're saying a lack of hope on any prospects on the horizon for lots of young people. Do you see good results, or better results I guess I would say as a curfew is put into place and the police clamp down? But long-term, what is the strategy going to be?

MAMDANI: Well, I think what we learned from the U.K. is that it's really important we channel the frustrations of young people from Muslim communities in a positive direction. We invest in their communities and we give them the opportunities that they need to develop and realize their own potential, and benefit from the fact that they are citizens of the country.

And, most importantly, I think it's really important that we, as a society, begin to listen to the concerns of young people, and recognize that they do have the right to speak out about the issues that affect them. And we have a real opportunity to bring out the good and the talent from this new generation of young people and diversity our society.

S. O'BRIEN: How do you turn that corner, though? Because there's a big difference between speaking out about your frustration and setting 600 cars on fire overnight, which is what we're reporting today. How do you make that turn?

MAMDANI: I think essentially it's about re-engaging with young people through community-based initiatives. It's about developing services that are going re-engage with them, and understand the challenges that young people face, that empathize with their concerns.

S. O'BRIEN: What are their concerns do you think, if you don't do that? I mean, you're in this book called, "Our Time is Now," and that's part of the reason you're on the book tour, to talk about the help line that you started. Are you saying that you sow the seeds of terrorism five, 10, 15 years down the road if you don't deal with these problems now?

MAMDANI: I think it's very difficult to speculate about the future. But what we can certainly say is by refusing or ignoring the current situation, we are, you know, brining about a situation that might have some negative repercussions if we do not really deal with the problems, the social problems that we have within some of the Muslim communities in Europe today.

S. O'BRIEN: We've seen some reports that the unemployment four times higher in these particular areas where the riots are taking place, outside of France, than in Paris, let's say, for example. It's more than just dialogue and talking. I mean, clearly, someone has to offer people jobs. I mean, there is tangible things that need to be done, like what?

MAMDANI: Sure. Basic services need to be provided, and there needs to be a recognition that there needs to be cultural sensitivity in the provision of these services, and that is not simply just employment opportunities, we're talking about health services, social services of one kind or another. A real sense of hope for some of these young people. They have something to offer. One thing the book does bring up is the fact that young people have an opportunity to make a real difference in their community and contribute to the social good, and that is essentially the story that's been profiled in the book, "Our Time is Now." S. O'BRIEN: What have you learned in your circumstance that you think applicable to what's happening in France?

MAMDANI: I think that when you treat young people as adults and you recognize that they do have a role to play and you sort of value their contributions to society, you can essentially bring out the best from them.

S. O'BRIEN: "Our Time is Now" is the name of the book, "Young People Changing the World," Mohammed Mamdani is the founder of the Muslim Youth Hotline, and it's all profiled, and you speak about at, at great depth in this book. Thanks for talking with us. Appreciate it.

MAMDANI: Yes. You're welcome.

(WEATHER REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: Ahead, this morning, do you think if someone is really rude should you should confront them or you should let it go?

M. O'BRIEN: I mean, is that, in itself, rude? Are you playing their game?

S. O'BRIEN: We've got that question and much more for Lynne Truss. She's got a new book out. It's called "Talk to the Hand." We all talk about what we think of the rude state of American society today. That's ahead this morning. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Andy Serwer is here, and we're talking Big Oil this morning, Big Oil on the griddle, oil on the griddle.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Oil on the grill, being grilled.

M. O'BRIEN: Being grilled, on the griddle in just a little while.

SERWER: Let's cut to the chase. The top executives from five large oil companies are going to be on Capitol Hill this morning, testifying before senators, and they're going to be asked very tough questions, obviously, about their huge record profits this year. Here are the numbers. Carol Costello was talking about that, $25 million that Exxon...

M. O'BRIEN: Billion, billion.

SERWER: Billion, excuse me. Billion, that's the whole point here, billion, 10 billion just in the third quarter alone. You know, it's going to be interesting to see, Miles, whether it's just venting or accusations, whether the oil companies executives get testy and say, well, we'd have lower prices if you'd let us drill in the Arctic, for instance. And but I think that they have a lot of explaining to do. But one thing that I think is really clear here, I think that these oil companies really blew it bigtime, because what they should of done during this crisis, if you will, in September and October, is to cut oil prices, gas prices, by, say, five cents a gallon at their stations all across the country. And then what they could have done is taken the 5 cents a gallon and given it to Katrina victims, or something like that. Tens of millions of dollars in donations. It would have been tax deductible. It would have been incredibly good PR. We probably wouldn't have had these hearings, but they don't do that.

M. O'BRIEN: It's interesting how the PR component about all of this gets lost in the drive to have those good quarterly reports. It's difficult for corporations to do this, isn't it?

SERWER: It really is. And you know, they are so driven to beat last quarters numbers and all that. And one thing I think that's going to be on the table this morning is going to be a windfall- profits tax, and that's a tax, obviously, that is levied against a company when they are making excess, or what's considered to be excess amounts of money. We did have a windfall tax on oil companies in 1980s. Jimmy Carter imposed it, and Ronald Reagan got rid of it in 1988. I think that's a difficult thing to do. I don't think the Senate has the political capital to do it. I think mostly, we're going to see is venting.

And of course the argument about a windfall profits tax, or against it, one could say, why not levy one against Starbucks? They're making a lot of money, they're selling a lot of coffee, and they're making a lot of money doing it, and they're taking money out our pockets, or Krispy Kreme doughnuts. Then of course they hit the skids.

So you know, companies do well at one point, then they do poorly, and that was the argument that gentleman from the Petroleum Institute...

M. O'BRIEN: Of course gasoline is essential, even though coffee is pretty close, and there is a slight difference there.

All right, Andy Serwer.

SERWER: Be fun to watch.

M. O'BRIEN: You should take that windfall-profits tax and put it in alternative fuels, or give it directly to Katrina people. I don't know, that's just my two cents, two billion, whatever it is -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Coming up this morning, searching for a little common courtesy? Well, forget about it. The world's lost its manners. We're going to visit with an author whose latest book is a rant on rudeness. Needless to say she's got a lot to say. That's coming up next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) S. O'BRIEN: The world is full of rude people and we are over it. Maybe it's because we're all so busy today with technology and all that there's just not time to be polite. Or maybe there's something more insidious at hand here.

M. O'BRIEN: There should always be time to be polite, don't you think?

S. O'BRIEN: New book out written by Lynne Truss. It's called "Talk to the Hand." And you kind of have to do the whole hand motion while you say that. The subtitle, of course, is "The Utter Bloody Rudeness of the World Today, or Six Good Reasons to Stay home and Bolt the Door."

Nice to see you. Thanks for talking with us this morning.

LYNNE TRUSS, AUTHOR, "TALK TO THE HAND": It's lovely to be here.

S. O'BRIEN: Why did you call it "Talk to the Hand"?

TRUSS: Well, it just seemed to me to symbolize exactly the feelings you have all of the time, people saying "talk to the hand, 'cuz the face ain't listening," you know. This...

S. O'BRIEN: I love it with the British accent, don't you?

M. O'BRIEN: There's something quaint about it. It actually sounds polite. "Talk to the hand, if you will."

S. O'BRIEN: I want to see the head bob, too. Maybe we won't go there this morning. So you just felt like you're constantly being put off and put upon by other people in your sort of personal space?

TRUSS: Yes. Well, I think -- you know, as I say, there are six good reasons in it. One of them is that people aren't saying please and thank you anymore. Another is that there's -- there's this over -- overinsistence on personal space so that people are keeping you at arm's length and treating you as invisible a lot of the time.

S. O'BRIEN: What did you find was your biggest pet peeve in this book? I mean, what do you think rates the highest and the worst of anything?

TRUSS: You know, the thing I really hate is that people are behaving in public as though they are in private. They're all -- you know, when they're out and about, they're doing things that you normally -- you know, you say, oh, no, please, do that in the privacy of your own home. And as we know, one of the things is the mobile phone, the cell phone.

S. O'BRIEN: Out of control.

TRUSS: It is out of control. And obviously, they're just going to have to ban them. People have been telling me about movie theaters, that you can be, you know, sitting in a movie theater and someone will take a call or make a call. S. O'BRIEN: But the worst thing is, not only will it ring, then they answer it and...

M. O'BRIEN: They actually answer it.

S. O'BRIEN: ... and proceed to have a conversation. I mean, you know, we all leave our cell phones on sometimes. It's the -- they keep going. I mean, that's amazing. Do you think people are more rude today than maybe ten years ago, 15 years ago?

TRUSS: I think they're more entitled. You get that sort of very -- people have this sense of entitlement, that whatever they want to do, wherever they want to do it, whenever they want it, they'll do it. And it doesn't matter if anybody else is around. So I think that's quite a new thing.

I mean, obviously, writing books like this, you have to think, is it just me getting older and noticing more? And everybody throughout history has always said, oh, it wasn't the same in my day. But I think there is something happening here. And we have this technology that allows us...

M. O'BRIEN: It accelerates it all.

TRUSS: That accelerates it all.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, now here's the thing, here's thing. I don't know if we can say this on TV. The eff off reflex? Eff off? We can say that, right?

S. O'BRIEN: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: Is that too rude, the eff off?

S. O'BRIEN: She writes it.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, E-F-F. So in other words, when you kind of bring things up with people, very quickly, they go ballistic on you. Why?

TRUSS: Yes, absolutely ballistic.

M. O'BRIEN: Why?

TRUSS: Really aggressive. Well, I think has to do with this personal space thing. I think people want to be, when they're out, they want to be themselves invisible in a way. They can't believe anyone would actually speak to them. And if you say something to them, they lash back at you with maximum force. You know, usually with abuse, sometimes, you know, sometimes with violence. So you can't say to somebody don't do that.

S. O'BRIEN: Is it because everybody's so busy? You know, like, you look at the people who are on the train with their cell phone, talking really loudly. You know, and some of that is, maybe it is because we're stretched and all so pushed, that we're all answering, you know, the phone on the train when back in the day, we'd be relaxing. But there's no more difference between a work day and a home day, that kind of thing. Is that why people are just more tightly wound today?

TRUSS: Yes, I think we are much more tightly wound. But I think there's also an element that's not so nice about sort of self- importance about being always on the phone. Because it sort of makes you feel that you're very important as an individual and that you must always be in contact and you must always be phoning people and you're much too busy just to be sitting on a train or a plane.

S. O'BRIEN: That is so true!

M. O'BRIEN: I'm getting off the plane now! I love that one. Really, such great news for everybody. I'm sure everybody is pleased. Is it narcissism run amok then? Is that what we're talking about?

TRUSS: I think so. That's a very nice way of putting it. Yes, I think it is a certain narcissism, yes. And certainly all these things about, sort of, I must do this now, I'm sorry, you know. I may be out in public, but I really must put on my makeup or something.

S. O'BRIEN: Do you think it's good to confront it? I mean, do you see any -- your book's very funny. It doesn't have a lot of hope in it for things getting better. It's like, OK, it's a rude society. Do you think there's any hope?

TRUSS: Well, I don't think -- you know, the book on punctuation I wrote was all about let's go out and change it. Let's go out and change the...

S. O'BRIEN: You came up with this book.

TRUSS: This one, I say please don't confront anybody.

(CROSSTALK)

M. O'BRIEN: You know, it's interesting how bad punctuation, you connect it to bad manners. Because in a way, punctuation is manners, isn't it?

TRUSS: It is. I think when you're writing to somebody, you ought to supply all the clues to them, as the reader, to know what you're trying to get at. And the idea that you just throw a load of stuff at them, a load of words and jumble, you know, not spelling them correctly and have them sort of sit and ponder what you were trying to say, is a transfer of effort I talk about in the book, which I think is happening more and more with corporations and so on. They tend to -- you know, they tend to make us do all of the work to find out what they know.

S. O'BRIEN: It's a great book. It's very funny. And I think anybody who's got a frustration about the rudeness. I mean, gosh, there's so many examples.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes. S. O'BRIEN: And rude children, the worst.

TRUSS: Oh, yes. Well, don't tell them off!

S. O'BRIEN: Right, exactly!

M. O'BRIEN: ... big trouble.

S. O'BRIEN: Nice to have you. The book is called "Talk to the Hand," the author Lynne Truss. Thanks.

TRUSS: Thank you.

M. O'BRIEN: Thanks for dropping by, Lynne. Appreciate it.

S. O'BRIEN: Ahead this morning, we're taking a look at the latest trend in Hollywood. And you might say this is not so polite.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, the question is, who is being more rude? The paparazzi? Or are the stars themselves rude in general? I don't know.

S. O'BRIEN: They're suing the tabloids. "A.M. Pop"'s ahead on AMERICAN MORNING. We talk about that. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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