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American Morning

President Bush to Address Border Security Issues; Small Town Views of War

Aired November 28, 2005 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: More to the serious side of things, in Baghdad this morning, yet another delay in the Saddam Hussein trial as they go through what attorneys call discovery. Carol Costello, good morning.
(NEWSBREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: President Bush heads to the border today. He's talking about immigration reform and border security in Tucson.

AMERICAN MORNING's Bob Franken live now at the White House for us. Bob, this speech is really aiming right toward the political base, isn't it?

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there you go again, Miles. Getting to the real story, aren't you?

M. O'BRIEN: The idea.

FRANKEN: Yes, yes, indeed. And yet that, of course, is what the president is doing, as he always does. The audience in real life is just a small part of the audience. This one is the bases -- you said the conservative base that has very strong feelings about immigration and strong feelings oftentimes that the president is not being harsh enough in his proposals.

Now what about the president's proposal? The president is going to emphasize the tough security measures, including new programs with high tech surveillance along the borders. A new program that would return those who are caught illegally in the United States to the interior of Mexico, if that's where they came from, as opposed to just back to the more convenient border towns.

But there is the guest worker program in the president's proposal that -- it includes three-year visas, worker visas, with a possibility of an extension before a person would have to return to his or her country for a year before reapplying.

That is the one that has people on the right in such an uproar and that is the one that the president has the toughest time defending. The problem he has is that another of his important constituencies is the business community and that really supports a program where that kind of labor is available -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, Bob. The president doing a little fundraising as well today. Tell us about that. FRANKEN: Well, he's going to be showing that he may be involved in some hassles with members of his own party, his base. But he's still able to pack them in. It will be a fundraiser in Phoenix for Republican Senator John Kyle.

M. O'BRIEN: Bob Franken at the White House, thank you very much.

CNN will carry the president's speech on border security and immigration, live today, 4:45 p.m. Eastern time -- Soledad.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, several U.S. lawmakers are now saying the time has come to get U.S. troops out of Iraq. What do most Americans think?

With that look at that, AMERICAN MORNING's Kelly Wallace joins us. Nice to see you, good morning.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. Great to see you, Soledad.

To get a sense, we really wanted to go out to the heartland, to small town America to hear what people are thinking and saying. And we headed to a place which knows all too well the heroism and the sacrifice of the Iraq war.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE (voice-over): In northeastern Pennsylvania, along the Susquehanna River, is the small town of Halstead, population just over 1,200, a place where the Iraq war hit close to home back in September.

First, local boy, 22-year-old William "Billy" Evans (ph) of the Army National Guard was killed. Less than two weeks later, another shock. Five more soldiers from the area were killed, including Lee Weigand (ph), just 20, from a town right next to Halstead. The small, tight-knit community, where just about everyone knew one of the boys or their families, was stunned.

BARB STONE, SUPPORTS IRAQ WAR: It's open-ended, the grief is. You almost can't close it.

WALLACE: In a place where President Bush beat Senator Kerry by more than 20 points in the presidential election, emotions are high about the war and when the troops should start coming home.

Kathy Estabrook, a mother of three, runs a bar in town where the two local boys' pictures are displayed. A registered Republican who voted for the president in November, she says her feelings have definitely changed.

KATHY ESTABROOK, QUESTIONS IRAQ WAR: Because in the beginning, I believed we were in danger. I thought there were weapons of mass destruction. With no weapons, we weren't justified. And I just feel like we should be trying to get our boys home.

WALLACE: But a different sentiment just one town over from Barb Stone, who runs a hardware store along with her husband. She still believes the U.S. was right to invade Iraq.

STONE: To me, Saddam Hussein was a weapon of mass destruction. The mass murders that he did of his own people, that either didn't agree with him or wanted religious freedom -- that, to me, is a weapon of mass destruction.

WALLACE: At Mandy's Cafe, where neighbors catch up over coffee and homemade pie, friends Leland Cook and Robin Houston (ph) told us they have been against the war from the beginning, but they don't necessarily agree with calls to start pulling the troops out now.

LELAND COOK, QUESTIONS IRAQ WAR: I think they ought to just go clean it up, send more guys and get it over with.

WALLACE (on camera): So you're willing to send more U.S. troops in there if that is what's needed?

COOK: If that's what it takes. I don't think they should leave. You know, I don't think they should do what they did in Vietnam. They left.

WALLACE (voice-over): But back to Kathy, the war supporter turned war critic with the question with the minds on just about everyone we met here.

ESTABROOK: Everything you read is we can't pull out, we can't pull out. How can we, would be my question then. If we can't, I understand that, but how can we get there?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE: And that is a question this still grieving community hopes can be answered, Soledad, before it loses any more of its own.

S. O'BRIEN: Are the people there feeling very involved in the debate that's going on in Washington, D.C. about whether to pull the troops out or do they feel, as many do outside of the beltway, that that has nothing to do with their feelings?

WALLACE: More of the latter, really. You know, they're not following sort of the incremental tit-for-tat, you know, Democrats versus Republicans and the fighting that's going on. And they sort of roll their eyes when you ask them about it. But they are paying attention to the bigger issues.

I mean, this issue that Democratic Congressman John Murtha, but his, you know, call to start pulling out the troops -- they knew about it, they had heard it. So they were paying attention.

Also the debate over whether the administration misled the American people when it comes to intelligence. They're paying attention to the bigger issue, not necessarily the in-fighting that we're seeing on a daily basis.

S. O'BRIEN: Is there a feel that there is a shift toward people who supported the president, voted for the president, believed in the war at first now beginning to step away? As your bartender we saw?

WALLACE: I think she's the most telling in our piece. Because you have the people who supported the war from the beginning and are still supporting the war. You have the couple that questioned the war and are still questioning it.

But that woman, Kathy Estabrook, she said she really rallied behind the president. She thought he handled September 11 brilliantly. So she was for him, voted for him, and she feels very, very frustrated over the intelligence, no weapons of mass destruction. She thinks this is really a false war. She supports the troops while they're there, but thinks, again, the plan should be to bring them home as soon as possible.

S. O'BRIEN: It should be interesting to see how many other places that same thing is playing out across the nation.

WALLACE: Sure.

S. O'BRIEN: Kelly, thanks, nice piece. Miles?

M. O'BRIEN: The protest against the war may be getting louder, but President Bush isn't likely to change his mind. That's what the "New Yorker"'s investigative reporter Seymour Hersh told Wolf Blitzer on CNN's "LATE EDITION."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEYMOUR HERSH, "THE NEW YORKER": This president, in private, at Camp David with his friends -- the people that I'm sure call him George -- is very serene about the war. He's upbeat. He thinks he's going to be judged not in five years or ten years, maybe even 20 years. He's committed to the course. He believes in democracy. He believes that he's doing the right thing and he's not going to stop until he gets -- either until he's out of office or it falls apart or he wins.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: But this has become, you're suggesting, a religious thing for him?

HERSH: Some people think it is. Other people think he's actually committed, as I say, to the idea of democracy. He's been sold on this notion. He's a utopian, you can say, in a world where maybe he doesn't have all of the facts and all the information he needs and isn't able to change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

M. O'BRIEN: And you can watch "LATE EDITION" with Wolf Blitzer Sundays, 11:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. Eastern time.

(WEATHER REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: Andy is "Minding Your Business" just ahead. What's coming up? ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Soledad, I'm going to talk about that big layoff announcement from Merck. Plus, the stock market that just keep on ticking. Stay tuned to AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Happy birthday to them all.

SERWER: An interesting combination.

M. O'BRIEN: I was trying to figure out what -- Anna Nicole Smith, what is she famous for? She's famous for being famous.

SERWER: Losing weight.

M. O'BRIEN: For losing weight.

SERWER: She's lost some weight.

M. O'BRIEN: Whatever. For marrying well, right? She did that, too?

SERWER: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: Let's talk about poor Merck. On the Vioxx front, they've had the two trials. That are kind of one on one on that deal. But the fact is, business is not so good.

SERWER: That's right, Miles. They don't have a lot of new drugs in the pipeline, as they say in this business. Plus, a couple of their big blockbusters are coming off patent, so it's no surprise this morning the company is announcing a huge layoff program; 7,000 employees will be pink slipped over the next two years, half of them here in the United States. Five plants will be closed or sold. And they look to save about $4 billion a year from this kind of activity.

Meanwhile, the third Vioxx trial begins -- look at that. I mean, that is a ski slope stock chart. The third Vioxx trial begins this week in Houston. Jury selection tomorrow, and as you said, they are one and one, and this is continuing to vex the company, and tough stuff.

M. O'BRIEN: Do you suspect the stock will go up on this news?

SERWER: I think it will. And in fact, the futures are up this morning. In fact, a lot of stock futures are up. The overall indexes are up. Last week a very good one for investors. You can see here, it's up 165 points on the Dow. We're going for week six to the upside. And futures are up briskly. Apple is up this morning, the futures.

Google, do you know that Google is now at 428? That means I've got to start preparing another dessert for Soledad, because we celebrate every time that stock goes through a century mark. I forgot what I promised her, something.

M. O'BRIEN: Could it be half a thousand for that stock?

SERWER: It's pretty amazing.

M. O'BRIEN: Could it really?

SERWER: Merck, I'm being told, the futures are up this morning.

M. O'BRIEN: They are?

SERWER: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: OK. Well, maybe I'm finally figuring out this market?

SERWER: Yes, right, people lose their jobs and the stock goes up. Unfortunately that's how it works sometimes.

M. O'BRIEN: Stocks goes -- ouch. Well, the Serwer rally continues. You may have hexed it this morning, but nevertheless, it's still going.

All right, still to come on the program, General Russel Honore brought tough love to New Orleans after Katrina. Where does he say the city goes now? And might he ever run for office? An exclusive interview with the general just ahead, here on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: You know, we haven't talked much about the Karl Rove/Plame leak thing.

(CROSSTALK)

S. O'BRIEN: It's been off the front burner for a little while.

M. O'BRIEN: But there's another Novak in the soup here.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: There's another Novak. COSTELLO: Not Robert Novak the other day. We don't know what's going on with him. But Vivica Novak, another reporter for "Time" magazine...

M. O'BRIEN: Unrelated.

COSTELLO: ... unrelated to Robert Novak. But she is going to give a deposition because supposedly she talked to Karl Rove's attorney about Valerie Plame. We don't know exactly what they talked about, but they're still trying to get information to find out where this leak came from and who originally told reporters that Valerie Plame was kind of an undercover type for the CIA.

S. O'BRIEN: That puts Karl Rove squarely back in the hot seat.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes. May not be out of the woods just yet.

S. O'BRIEN: No, I don't think so. And I think it was Jeff Toobin who said, you know, that as long as this continues, it becomes this huge Albatross around the neck, so to speak, of the White House.

COSTELLO: Well, the interesting thing about it is, I don't think many Americans are really like tuned to this. Only like hard-core politicos are really following this. But this, along with everything else that is happening, is really affecting the Republican party right now.

S. O'BRIEN: It certainly is under the category of big problem and not positive news there.

What else are we talking about this morning? Saddam Hussein trial, for one.

M. O'BRIEN: We got the trial, delayed yet again.

S. O'BRIEN: Started late.

M. O'BRIEN: Started, stopped.

S. O'BRIEN: They took a -- they started late, then broke for lunch and then have, I guess, stopped until December 5th. They've taken a break, a recess. Because it sounds as if essentially, the defendants are up in arms about their legal representation. And they've managed to put a stop to the trial.

M. O'BRIEN: There's security issues but there's also a very fundamental issue. I mean, I understand the security thing -- that's a big deal -- but they also haven't gotten all the evidence, the so- called discovery phase. And, so, you know, I think that that's a legitimate request.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes. I think that there's certainly -- although some was made of the fact that they hadn't been spending so much time dealing with some of the other issues and all the grandstanding and actually been focusing on the discovery, you wouldn't necessarily have those issues right now.

M. O'BRIEN: Good point.

S. O'BRIEN: That was a point made by some of the attorneys who are assisting in the tribunals.

And then, of course, it's CyberMonday. Congratulations. Happy CyberMonday to you.

COSTELLO: Thank you!

M. O'BRIEN: I was on Amazon earlier this morning...

S. O'BRIEN: Were you?

M. O'BRIEN: ... celebrating CyberMonday. Yes, yes.

S. O'BRIEN: That, of course, is the Monday after Black Friday, which is the Friday after Thanksgiving where everybody runs out and goes shopping. It makes sense to me now, because we're sort of revved up and in the shopping mode. That's why we're here at work, online shopping.

M. O'BRIEN: I'm not buying the hype on this one, I'm sorry.

S. O'BRIEN: You think it's a fake holiday?

M. O'BRIEN: I think it's a fake thing to do just what you said, rev up people to go online. They think, oh, I can go buy online!

COSTELLO: I don't think so. I think a lot of people are shopping online. It's increased, like, terrifically over the last year.

S. O'BRIEN: Overall, but not today, necessarily.

M. O'BRIEN: They're doing it on Monday? I mean, they like put it in their -- you know?

S. O'BRIEN: Although, I will tell you this. The shopping experts say you've just come off looking in the stores if you didn't buy, you spent the weekend, the week, with your family members.

COSTELLO: It's like you catch a disease on Friday and it continues to be there on Monday.

M. O'BRIEN: It's a virus!

S. O'BRIEN: Kind of, sort of, yes.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Coming up on the program, we're going to talk about the levees. Here's the interesting thing. Have you read much about the Dutch levee system?

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, actually.

M. O'BRIEN: Fifteen billion dollar system. Of course, they have, real vested interest. Two-thirds of their gross domestic product lies below sea level behind these levees, not to mention a lot of people. Well, in 1953, before all of this was built, they had a Katrina-like storm off the North Sea, 19,000 people were -- excuse me, 19,000 homes destroyed. Upwards of 2,000 people killed. It was a big deal.

And in the wake of that, they spent a tremendous amount of money to guard against a 10,000-year event -- 10,000-year event! Now, even under the best of circumstances, this system in New Orleans, if it had been working, was Category 3, which is about 100-year event. So, obviously, the Dutch have a different approach to it. But it has to do with their national being and their ability to continue as a country.

S. O'BRIEN: But, you know, you look at those pictures, how big those levees are. One of the things I found most breathtaking was...

COSTELLO: Oh, I know.

S. O'BRIEN: ... about covering the levees in New Orleans, they were walls that are this big. They are...

COSTELLO: And mounds of dirt with rock underneath it.

(CROSSTALK)

M. O'BRIEN: In fairness, these are some storm doors that they have on the North Sea. So it's not the...

COSTELLO: Yes, but even the storm doors in New Orleans were not high.

M. O'BRIEN: Right, exactly.

S. O'BRIEN: So I mean, it will be interesting to do the compare and contrast, I think.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, there's one question we're going to ask them. We're going to ask them how patronage -- patronage and the patchwork system there made for a weak system in New Orleans. We'll ask Senator Landrieu about that, among other things.

Coming up on the program, the latest in the on again/off again trial of Saddam Hussein. Just hours after resuming, as we told you, they had lunch, they came back. And for dessert, they had a recess. A live report from Baghdad on this developing story ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: This Sunday night at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, our "Then and Now" special with Larry King will take a look at some of the newsmakers over CNN's first 25 years and see what they're doing right now. Here's a sample.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How did you make your money, Kato?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kato, are you relieved?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kato!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Kato.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): America's most famous house guest, Brian Kato Kaelin. He was living in O.J. Simpson's guest house when the murders of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman were committed. When he was called to the witness stand during the O.J. trial the bleach-blonde aspiring actor made an impression.

BRIAN KAELIN, WITNESS: I think what I learned from the trial is you've got to realize one thing about people: Everybody has their own agenda, and they all want something.

This is Radio 97.1.

NGUYEN: After the trial, Kaelin had a short-lived radio show and continued his acting career, appearing on TV shows such as "Talk Soup" and in B-movies such as "BASEketball."

KAELIN: (INAUDIBLE) invisible Hollywood people look at me like, hey, Kato did it, and, heck, I can relate to that guy. He's everyman America.

Today's eye for an eye...

NGUYEN: He now works for National Lampoon, and is the host of a new syndicated show called "Eye For An Eye."

KAELIN: It's sort of like "Judge Judy" meets "Fear Factor."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kaelin is not married but has a daughter from a previous relationship. Recently he lost a 22-year-old nephew, a marine, in the war in Iraq.

KAELIN: It's just a terrible thing to be taken away, and that goes for everybody in the service that's lost someone.

NGUYEN: Kaelin doesn't see or talk to O.J. Simpson anymore. And the guest house where Kato lived has been torn down.

KAELIN: I have my own place now, so -- unfortunately I lived behind it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, how can one zoo mean so much to a community? In New Orleans, it means a return to normalcy. We're going to get there live in our next hour of AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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