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American Morning

Plea for Clemency; 'AM Pop'

Aired December 05, 2005 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: In just a couple of days, the governor of California, Arnold Schwarzenegger, will take a hearing, a clemency hearing, for Stanley "Tookie" Williams, a cofounder of the Crips, a man who has spent upwards of 25 years in jail, and who now faces a December 13th execution date if that hearing is not, in fact, successful. One of the attorneys representing him is Peter Fleming. He joins us now to explain why he feels Tookie Williams should live.
Why do you think Tookie should live?

PETER FLEMING, ATTY. FOR "TOOKIE" WILLIAMS: Well, I think he's a resource for the state of California and for the country at large.

M. O'BRIEN: Explain that. I mean, he's a prolific author. He speaks out on issues which are related to young children and avoiding a life of crime. Explain what you mean by "resource," though.

FLEMING: Well, I'll take some time on this. This is a personal view of mine. I think that the children of this country are the future of this country, and everyone would agree with that, and I think too little is being done to tap the resources which are available to children in disadvantaged neighborhoods.

Now Tookie Williams started the Crips, went to jail, went into isolation for six years.

M. O'BRIEN: He murdered four people. Let's not gloss that part over.

FLEMING: He was convicted of murdering four people. He went to jail.

M. O'BRIEN: Wait a minute, even after all of this, you and he are not admitting the facts of the case?

FLEMING: Stanley Williams has said repeatedly that he is innocent of the crimes of which he was convicted. What I can say is that the evidence that was presented against him is, at least in my view, flawed, that anyone who would examine the trial record would see that, and that indeed that the court of appeals for the Ninth Circuit so stated.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, if he is in fact innocent, why aren't you asking to get out of jail.

FLEMING: You cannot get out of jail unless you can prove innocence, and we're not in a position to prove innocence. M. O'BRIEN: So where is the burden of proof here in this case? And don't you think, given all that, if Tookie Williams, at least owned up, fessed up, whatever, apologized to the victims' families, would that help his case?

FLEMING: I don't know. I've been thinking about that. That question is asked all the time.

I do know this, when I first met Stanley, I told him, you know, if you did this, then you should confess to it, because obviously a confession is not going hurt you. And he said, I didn't do it. He said if innocence is -- if I die because I say I'm innocent, so be it, because I am.

M. O'BRIEN: This has become quite a cause celeb. A year or so ago a TV movie called "Redemption" starring Jamie Foxx. Many celebrities have rallied to his cause. Snoop Dogg, former Crip, by the way, Russell Crowe, Danny Glover, many others stood up and said he should live. Why have celebrities kind of taken hold of this case? And do you think that helps?

FLEMING: I know -- let me say this. Stanley Williams appreciates the support everyone, and appreciates the support of celebrities, and so do we, but the real support for Stanley Williams comes from the bottom. This is a bottom-up support. We have -- when we came into this case last April, there were 50,000 e-mails from children, teachers and parents in disadvantaged neighborhoods praising Stanley Williams' work. That's well over 100,000, coupled with some 100,000 letters to the governor and others praising his work.

He has been a force. He is a person who has lived the life that other children may live, and he has sent out a message which has resonated with thousands of children, that they should not follow his life.

M. O'BRIEN: He was convicted of these crimes, and you say you cannot prove his innocence, but for the family members who lost four loved ones, their sense of justice has to do with justice in fact being meted out. This was the sentence that a jury determined. Why should that be changed?

FLEMING: Well, let me address the families first. You cannot help but empathize and sympathize with anyone who has lost a loved one in these circumstances, or has lost a loved one in any difficult circumstances. I empathize, Stanley Williams does. Clemency is something which is outside of the judicial process. Some people have said that once the jury has spoken, that is the end of the matter. That is not what the constitution says. That's not what the concept of clemency says, and clemency has been in effect for tens of thousands of years really, going back to Pontius Pilate. He gave Barbarous clemency.

Now why should Governor Schwarzenegger grant clemency? I started by saying, because I believe Stanley Williams is a resource. I believe his death will prove nothing. I think clemency would allow him to continue in prison for life without parole, continuing the good work he has been doing, and I think it will send a message, a message to the people in California that the state of California and Governor Schwarzenegger recognized the difficulties in which people live and agree with Stanley Williams' message.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, Peter Fleming, thank you very much. That hearing is on Thursday. Last time there was clemency in California, 1967. Ronald Reagan was the governor then.

Thanks for your time -- Soledad.

FLEMING: Thank you, Miles.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, a new chapter in the post-Katrina blame game. Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco releasing thousands of documents, 100,000 pages, including pleas for help to the White House. E-mails, letters, notes, shedding light on the political chaos that left Katrina victims waiting desperately for some help. The governor's office was asked for the papers by two congressional committees which are investigating federal response to Katrina.

I talked to former Louisiana Senator John Breaux about some of the lessons learned.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BREAUX, FORMER LOUISIANA SENATOR: The federal government has to be a partner with the state. It doesn't have to take over the state and it shouldn't. But it has to be a better coordinated partner.

The federal government can do a lot of things like provide communications, helicopters, mobile hospitals, food and water. But they have to do that in partnership with the state. I think that's what you see the state saying, look, we need everything you've got. Send us everything. That's not a debate over what we need. We need everything you have. Please send it too it as fast as you can.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: Former Senator Breaux is heading up the lobbying effort to get the federal government to pay for rebuilding New Orleans.

M. O'BRIEN: (INAUDIBLE) a story we brought you last week. We talked to Cecile Tebo of New Orleans, Louisiana, and she was telling her tale of how difficult life has become there. And among other things, she was not getting any sort of positive response from her insurance company as she and her family tried to rebuild their home there in New Orleans.

Let's listen to a brief excerpt of that interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CECILE TEBO, CRISIS COORDINATOR, NOPD: This country has embraced us. The people have done their part but the insurance companies and the government are not doing their part and it needs to happen now because we are drowning. The floodwaters have gone, but inside, emotionally, mentally, we are drowning.

M. O'BRIEN: Who's your insurance company?

TEBO: We are Fidelity.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Give them a call.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

M. O'BRIEN: Fidelity did, in fact, give her a call. Cecile Tebo on the line right now. What happened after that interview, Cecile?

TEBO: Miles, I would say about 30 minutes after that interview, we received a call from the vice president of Fidelity, Miss Patty Templeton (ph), who was very upset. Had obviously seen the broadcast and wanted to know what they needed to do, which we said we -- you know, we need our insurance money.

And about two hours later, we met with our adjustor at our house, who said that he had gotten a call from Fidelity, was told to put our claim in immediately, that he had three hours to do the paperwork and submit the claim to Fidelity. And Saturday morning, the FedEx truck arrived with our check.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, I'm so glad that happened for you. But, of course, what we all think about is all the other people who didn't have an opportunity to get up on CNN and mention the name of the insurance company and your plight. I wish we could put everybody on TV.

TEBO: Well, Miles, you know what? That's exactly what I'm thinking because, you know, it's obvious that the power of the media gets people moving and that's what we have to do. And we have struggled to find any avenue to get people moving. And if this is the way we do it, I'll tell you what, Miles, I will line them up by the thousands. Because when I came on, it wasn't just about the Tebos, it was about my community.

And right now the biggest thing that is happening and the risk to this city is we are about to lose all of our officers because it's the same problem. All our police officers, our heroes who stayed here, who weathered this storm, they have been displaced from their families, they have no homes, they have no vehicles and they have received nothing.

And the boats that they are living on, which many call a prison -- I mean, you think of a cruise line as being a luxury liner, well, it's not for them. And I'll be more than happy to get you all on there and show you that the conditions that they're living in are god awful. But they're going to be leaving soon.

M. O'BRIEN: Cecile Tebo, we're going to have to leave it there. We will follow up with you on all of those fronts. I'm glad that within 24 hours you had a check and I wish that everybody in New Orleans who was in the same plight would get the same kind of treatment. And it's too bad it takes the media to get the kind of service we all expect.

Thank you, Cecile Tebo. We'll check back with you later -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, it would be interesting to see if Fidelity expects her to shut up now that she's got her check. Seriously, I mean, one would wonder. If it's like, OK, we hear you, let's not hear from you again. We'll follow that, of course.

(WEATHER REPORT)

M. O'BRIEN: Andy is "Minding Your Business." What's going on, Andy?

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" COLUMNIST: Miles, the yellow pages are for sale. How many billions of dollars are they worth and does anyone use them anymore? Stay tuned for that coming up on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Soledad still uses the yellow pages.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, I do.

(CROSSTALK)

S. O'BRIEN: When I need a plumber.

SERWER: Old school.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, absolutely.

M. O'BRIEN: I don't even have them. Don't have them anymore.

S. O'BRIEN: You know, you don't know what you're finding, you pull out your yellow pages.

SERWER: A lot of people still use them and that's why they're so valuable. We'll talk about that.

I want to talk about the markets, though, first of all. See if we can go down to the big board and see what's happening down there to start the trading week off.

What do we got there? Down 25 points? Thank you, Soledad, for the acknowledgment.

S. O'BRIEN: Did you forget your glasses today?

SERWER: Yes, I did. And my contacts and everything else.

(CROSSTALK)

SERWER: All right. Crude oil prices on the rise because of the snowstorm that's hitting to the Northeast this morning and that's making stocks a little bit weaker. Interesting story here. You can see there's the price of oil, ticking up toward $60. Interesting story here. Boston Scientific, medical device maker, is jumping in this fray with Johnson and Johnson and Guidant looks like they're going to make an offer for Guidant for $25 billion, topping Johnson and Johnson's bid. These guys have been going at it for months and months.

Now, I want to talk about Verizon. The "Wall Street Journal" reporting this morning that this company may be selling its yellow pages. Verizon is the largest yellow pages company. After AT&T deregulate, this became a competitive business. There's also Yellow Book, which is owned by some Brits and some Aussies. But Verizon is the biggest. They've got 1,750 directories in 44 states and in Washington, D.C. And it could go for as much as $17 bilion.

This is not a growth business anymore, as you can imagine, because a lot of people use Google and MSN and AOL and Yahoo! to search, but it's still a cash cow business. Those little ads by companies -- if you want a plumber, you've got to advertise in the yellow pages. And those ads can cost hundreds of dollars every month. So it generates a lot of cash. It's not a growing business, but it's obviously a very, very valuable one.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, it looks like one. All right, Andy, thank you.

SERWER: You're welcome.

S. O'BRIEN: Let's get right to Daryn. What are you working on this morning, Daryn?

Hi, Daryn, can you hear me?

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, I can.

S. O'BRIEN: I don't know who those voices were. Maybe they were only in my own head. Did you hear them, too? Make me feel better.

KAGAN: I hear there's medication for things like this.

S. O'BRIEN: Girl, bring it on. I need that and a little more. What are you working on this morning?

KAGAN: But I heard them, too.

S. O'BRIEN: Oh, good.

KAGAN: Speaking of hearing, Soledad, we are going to hear more from the man behind the 9/11 report. As you've been reporting this morning, they give the government failing grades when it comes to protecting Americans against another terrorist attack.

And it's convenient. It's easy. More than half the U.S. want it for Christmas. We're talking about gift cards, but there are tips for ways to give and buy, and all that kind of shopping stuff. And we'll have that for you just ahead. S. O'BRIEN: You know, gift cards, they're so not personal. I mean, I guess you can...

KAGAN: But they're so practical.

S. O'BRIEN: They are.

KAGAN: When you go shopping, and you know how we enjoy that activity, my friend.

S. O'BRIEN: I hear you, girl.

Preaching to the choir. Me the priest, you're the choir.

All right, thanks, Daryn. See you at the top of the hour. Much more AMERICAN MORNING still to come.

Ahead on "AM Pop," do we hear wedding bells for Brad and Angelina? Rumors are flying after some big news over the weekend.

Plus, the billionaire heiress to the Onassis fortune tie the knot. Is her new hubby just after her money? That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: On "AM Pop" this morning, Brad Pitt says (INAUDIBLE) little rich girl. That's not her official title. A married woman today in a (INAUDIBLE).

(INAUDIBLE), who's the senior editor of "US Weekly," gets us up to speed. Lots to talk about on a lot of fronts.

BRADLEY JACOBS, "US WEEKLY": Absolutely.

S. O'BRIEN: And actually of them interesting, because I know all of the players this time around. Let's begin with Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie.

JACOBS: This is the most incredible story, Soledad. After all this time, we've talking about Brad and Angelina, are they or aren't they? Well, now we have such official confirmation. Brad Pitt's publicist released a statement on Friday, saying that Brad is going to officially adopt Angelina's two kids, Maddox (ph) and Sahara (ph). They're both going to have the last name Jolie-Pitt.

S. O'BRIEN: Jolie-Pitt, oh, that's fabulous!

JACOBS: But you know the thing is.

S. O'BRIEN: But it speaks volumes about the relationship, right?

JACOBS: It speaks volumes because in the celebrity world, personal publicists rarely make statements about their clients, rarely, rarely, rarely. S. O'BRIEN: Unless they're spinning them on something.

JACOBS: Well, Brad's publicist has never even confirmed that he's dating Angelina, and suddenly out of the blue we got a confirmation he's going to adopt her kids. And you won't see another statement from his publicists until something equally big happens, like Brad and Angelina get married.

S. O'BRIEN: But don't they get married first and then they adopt? I mean, Isn't that the way it would go?

JACOBS: Well, she adopted her kids without being married. I think -- I don't know, we have to look at the rules.

S. O'BRIEN: But seriously, I would have thought that they would...

JACOBS: Well, there is a lot of talk that Brad and Angelina are already married.

S. O'BRIEN: Are already married, right, that's what I thought.

JACOBS: I guess they could be already married, but sources say that they're not.

S. O'BRIEN: So maybe the marriage will come before -- interesting.

JACOBS: And they might also have children together, because as "US Weekly" has reported a couple weeks ago, she's taking prenatal vitamins.

S. O'BRIEN: That's a sign of something.

All right. Let's talk about Oprah on Dave Letterman. Wow! The numbers for his show are through the roof.

JACOBS: Right, only three other times have numbers been higher. His premiere, and then two other times in 1994 in the midst of the Nancy Kerrigan-Tonya Harding melodrama. These ratings were three times higher than usual. Everyone turned out to be to see this big lovefest. And, you know, there were no sparks, that was the incredible thing. Letterman was nervous, he was humble, and Oprah did all the talking.

(CROSSTALK)

S. O'BRIEN: Mea culpa, mea culpa on Dave Letterman's part. But it was good to watch. I thought that was really enjoyable.

Let's talk about, well, poor little rich girl. That's not actually the phrase that you use to describe Athena Onassis, who's now 20, married a 32-year-old, which everybody is calling the "much older man." You know, is he going after her money? Three years old, she was a billionaire almost?

JACOBS: Yes, she inherited $2.7 million on her 18th -- billion dollars. Sorry, big change there.

S. O'BRIEN: Off by a few zeros.

JACOBS: And you know, her father is so upset with this marriage that he actually boycotted the wedding. He has been very outspoken about this guy he thinks is after his daughter's money.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, he was trying to wrestle her fortune from her before she turned 18, right?

JACOBS: Right, but you know what, she's 20 years old, $2.7 billion is a lot of money for a 20-year-old, you have to admit. This guy, you know, he's an Olympic horseback rider, and he doesn't come from that much money. So that's what's going on there. It's a little bit of a soap opera. You know, when there's money involved, there's always drama.

S. O'BRIEN: I know "US Weekly's" going watch it.

JACOBS: Absolutely.

S. O'BRIEN: Bradley Jacobs, nice to see you, thank you.

JACOBS: Thank you.

S. O'BRIEN: Back in just a moment. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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