Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Candid Conversation with FEMA's Mike Brown; Inside the KKK
Aired February 20, 2006 - 09:34 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: You know they say you can't keep a good town down. If you take a look at New Orleans over the weekend, with more than a week to go before Fat Tuesday, of course, looking like Mardi Gras, though. Spectator yelling throw me something, mister! trying to catch some of the trademark beads. Even the Big Easy's canine population celebrated a somewhat scaled-down version of Mardi Gras. Mark this on your screen there. Isn't that cute? For the many people who were there, they lined up to Mardi Gras signals, because they wanted to sort of signal that there is a comeback in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This just gives more hope and promise for the parish that people are going to come back, and rebuild and make things as close to normal as possible, and back to where it used to be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're still here. Hurting bad down here, but we're resilient people. We're going to come back. And we're going to come back just as strong as ever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Katrina took the people out of St. Bernard, but you can't take St. Bernard out of the people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: St. Bernard absolutely hammered in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. Good to see a little bit of a comeback there.
Before Katrina struck, production was under way on a documentary about the work of Habitat for Humanity in New Orleans. Like everything else, the film's focus, of course, completely changed when the disaster struck. Production took another unexpected turn just last week, and that is when the filmmaker sat down with the former FEMA director, Mike Brown, for a very emotional interview. The filmmaker, Stephen Rue, joins us. He's at the CNN Center in Atlanta this morning. It's nice to see you, Steven. Thanks for talking with us.
STEPHEN RUE, FILMMAKER: Thank you, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: How did you get this interview with Mike Brown? He hasn't really, as you know, sat down with a lot of folks to do tell- all about what happened. And he did with you. RUE: We have been trying to several months. And finally, we found out where we could reach him. And I was very persistent, because it's important somebody from New Orleans, someone from the New Orleans area, to speak to this man. And I think that it was time for him to speak to someone who was essentially an unofficial representative of the people of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast, and to explain to us what happened, and why things occurred the way they did.
O'BRIEN: OK, so your a resident of New Orleans.
RUE: Yes.
O'BRIEN: And I'm curious to know, did you go into this interview angry, and hostile and furious at him personally?
RUE: Well, first of all, I went in trying to be as professional as possible, courteous as possible, but at the same time, I wanted to be very thorough. I'm an attorney by trade. So I learned to be prepared. And so I went in with the bullets in my guns to ask him very important, very hard questions, and then at the end of the interview, I told him how angry I personally was, and that there are so many thousands of people probably very angry at him.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk about some of the answers he gave to some of the questions. First, you asked him a little bit about the military, why the military didn't go in right away.
Here's what he had to say: let's listen:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL BROWN, FMR. FEMA DIR.: Let's say the media reports that we're all getting had been true, and that there were rapes, and murders, and shootings and that they were gangs in there, but you sent active duty military in there, and they're fired upon, they're going to kill. And I think the last thing we wanted to see was United States Army troopers killing American citizens on American soil.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: What did you make of that answer?
RUE: Soledad, I told Mr. Brown this is not Iraq, this is not North Vietnam, this is not Iran; this is America, the United States of America. We should not have people waiting for days to get help from the military. This is America. The Superdome is only a few blocks walking distance to the Convention Center. It's irresponsible and ridiculous that they were not helped sooner.
O'BRIEN: I thought it was interesting you asked him to grade everybody, sort of all the major players, give them a grade. Let's listen to his answer when you asked him to give, you know, a letter grade to all the big players in this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUE: A to F, How do you rate President Bush?
BROWN: Sure, I'll give the president A minus. I think the president let his political intuition down just a little bit at the very beginning.
RUE: Secretary Chertoff?
BROWN: You know, C minus.
RUE: Governor Blanco.
BROWN: If she was one of my students, I would give her a C plus, because she did try.
RUE: Mayor Ray Nagin of New Orleans.
BROWN: I'm going to give the mayor a D.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: You asked him then what grade he gave himself, and I found the answer very curious. What did he say?
RUE: He gave himself a C.
O'BRIEN: OK, so he says I gave myself a C. What did you say to him about that?
RUE: Well, I let him continue to talk. The biggest problem I have is you have politicians, people doing spin out there. He admitted that he spun a lot of the truth. I asked him, at what point are you going to start telling the truth? When did you decide to start telling the truth to the American people? And basically he admitted that he did spin the truth during this time as to the extent of the devastation, and it was very disheartening. Obviously another reason to be angry. But at some point you also have to forgive and move on.
O'BRIEN: You asked him about race. And of course the question of race came up I think pretty immediately, actually, when people saw a lot of people at the Convention Center, especially, waving their hands, mostly blacks, poor people, it seemed, from what we could see in the helicopters.
Here's a little bit of what he said when you asked that question:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: How many people know what is in my heart? You know, how many people know perhaps some of the economic background in my family? How many people know the minorities that I hired on my staff, or the minorities I'm close friends with? I just find it unacceptable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: What did you make of that answer? RUE: I would like to believe that prejudice did not play a role, and class did not play a role and poverty did not play a role, but unfortunately my personal conclusion is that the response would be different if it were affluent Caucasians in the Ninth Ward and other areas.
However, Katrina was an equal-opportunity destroyer. You look at St. Bernard, for example, or Lakeview in New Orleans, which were predominantly Caucasian, predominately white areas. It did affect everyone. Actually who it hurt the worse were the elderly; those over 70 were the majority of people who died in Katrina.
O'BRIEN: We have no time left to take, but I just have a super- quick question for you. We showed pictures of him wiping his eyes when he started to cry at one point in the interview. What did you ask him that made him cry?
RUE: I basically told him that I was angry, but I'm a Christian, and there's a point for myself and him that there needs to be forgiveness. So I personally asked him that forgave him, and I asked him if it mattered to him?
O'BRIEN: And he said?
RUE: Very much.
O'BRIEN: Filmmaker Stephen Rue, thanks for talking with us this morning. Good luck with the documentary.
RUE: Thank you, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Again it's called "New Orleans Story."
RUE: Thank you.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, a pretty rare and disturbing look at the inner workings of the Ku Klux Klan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do exist. We've existed ever since. As long as there's white people, the Klan is going to exist, no matter what.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Ahead this morning, we're going to take a look at how the hate group is using new methods and some new members to try to grow stronger. Stay with us. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.
We're back in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) O'BRIEN: It's one of the most secretive organizations in the world, and with good reason. The Ku Klux Klan is loathed by many people, loved by some people. This morning, though, an inside look as it exists today, something you need to see for yourself.
AMERICAN MORNING's Alina Cho helps us with her report this morning.
Good morning.
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
You know, we first realized this was a sorry when we came into contact with a Klan member. We met him about six months ago, while we were working on another story. He was just 23 years old. And quite frankly, we were struck by that. We asked him at the time whether we could attend a Klan meeting. He told us no. We then asked would he be willing to tape the meeting for us. He did, and gave us the videotape. What you're about to see is a glimpse inside one of the most secretive organizations in America.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALES: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America...
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): July 24th, 2005: This is the new face of the Ku Klux Klan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALES: ... with liberty and justice for all white men.
CHO: This videotape is a rare look at the inner workings of the KKK. Its members are younger. The movement is growing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: White power!
UNIDENTIFIED MALES: White power!
CHO: Just ask Jared Hensley (ph). At 23, he is the second most powerful Klansman in the state of Ohio, a grand titan the Imperial Klans of America, the largest faction of the KKK. Hensley dreams about an all-white America.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All-white neighborhood, all-white cities. Good values.
CHO: He joined the Klan as soon as he turned 18. Like most new members, he was intrigued by what he saw on the Internet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is our Web site.
CHO: White supremacist Web sites, which serve as recruiting brochures. The Internet allowed Hensley to connect with other white supremacists at events like Nordic Fest, an annual festival held in Kentucky, dedicated to racist music and ideology. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We stand for a better world. We stand for the white race and all things at all times.
MARK POTOK, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: There is a whole subculture that comes with this world.
CHO: Mark Potok, with the Southern Poverty Law Center, says the number of hate groups in America has grown from 600 to 800, a 33 percent jump in the past five years.
POTOK: The fact is these groups continue to grow. We see more and more neo-Nazi type incidents in high schools and even middle schools.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: White power!
POTOK: For me, it's a worrying phenomenon. I don't think the country is doing well in terms of race relations. And in fact, I think a strong argument could be made we're really going backward in many ways.
CHO: At this Klan meeting, members take part in secret handshakes, prayer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God save our race.
CHO: Even fund raising.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's important that none of us forget about the...
CHO: All for the white race.
And the Klan of today is changing. The new Klan is starting to join forces with neo-Nazi skinheads. Now, above all, even blacks, they hate Jews.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hitler inside of the Swastika right here.
CHO: They also worship Adolf Hitler.
(on camera): What about the Holocaust?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Holocaust? It's completely false. I don't believe that six million people died at all.
CHO (voice-over): Hensley believes Jews and other minorities are taking jobs from whites.
(on camera): Are you saying you think I should leave?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think you should go and build in your country. You could of been born here, but you're not originally from here. Just like we wasn't, but we built this country.
CHO: He wants to build an all-white America, his land of opportunity, his dream for his 3-year-old daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: See, in my eyes, This is what's beautiful, white, just white kids, white values and nice homes, nice land around.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHO: Although the white supremacist movement has been growing steadily over the past decade or so, the Southern Poverty Law Center tells us there was a spike in membership after September 11th. The KKK says if foreigners had never been allowed inside the United States, these attacks would never have happened.
What's interesting, Soledad, is that a lot of people asked me why are you doing the story? You know, why are you giving this guy a platform? Well, the truth is that a lot of people in urban areas, as you know, don't quite understand these views, can't really wrap their heads around them. But, you know, this is a movement that is growing, it is getting younger, and I don't think this is something that we can ignore.
O'BRIEN: Is he a vile person to talk to? Is he a normal person to talk to?
CHO: Well, you know, interestingly, a lot of people have asked me that, as well. It was one of the tougher interviews I've done, I'll admit. But when the camera was rolling, it was all business. You know, I had to ask the tough questions and in many cases, he gave me tough answers. But off-camera, he was quite polite, he was friendly. And I actually said to him at one point, you know, if I didn't know what you believed in, I might actually like you. So it was an interesting interview to do. One of the tougher ones I've had to do in a while.
O'BRIEN: I bet, I bet. Nice job.
CHO: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Rob.
MARCIANO: Soledad, "CNN LIVE TODAY" is coming up next. Daryn Kagan is at the CNN Center in Atlanta. What you working on, Daryn?
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: 2Hi, Rob. Good to see you there in New York City.
At the top of the hour, are you bucking for a promotion or a raise? Our top five tips could help you get a leg up on the corporate ladder.
Also, new concerns about the acceleration of bird flu. We'll ask an expert how soon it could reach the U.S..
Plus, one big family, one super size family reunion. It is worth sticking around for.
We'll see you in about nine minutes. Now back up to New York City.
MARCIANO: Sounds good, Daryn. Good to see you, as well.
Coming up, a legal fight over one of "Saturday Night Live"'s most popular sketches.
We'll explain in "Minding Your Business," next on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MARKET REPORT)
O'BRIEN: Short break. We're back in just a moment. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: We're out of time. Let's take you right to Daryn Kagan. She's at the CNN Center, going to take you through the next couple of hours on CNN LIVE TODAY. Hello and good morning.
MARCIANO: Hi, Daryn.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
