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Zacarias Moussaoui Defense Drawing Near Close; Rumsfeld Under Fire

Aired April 19, 2006 - 08:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The Zacarias Moussaoui defense is drawing near to a close. Today, they'll present a second psychiatric expert, and final testimony will come from some families of 9/11 victims actually testifying as defense witnesses.
CNN's Justice correspondent Kelli Arena live from the courthouse in Virginia with more on this.

Hello, Kelli.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Miles.

Well, much of yesterday was spent on discussing whether or not Moussaoui is mentally ill. Health expert yesterday saying that he is paranoid schizophrenic, that he suffers from delusions. We expect more of the same from the mental health expert today, Michael First. Yesterday's testimony very long, most of the day was spent on this. But we also do expect to get to those families that you mentioned.

Now these are family members of 9/11 victims, who do not believe that Moussaoui should get the death penalty. We spoke to one of those people earlier in the week. Her name is Alice Hoglan. She lost her son in the United 93 flight that crashed in Shanksville, Pennsylvania. Here's what she had to say about her decision.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALICE HOGLAN, MOTHER OF 9/11 VICTIM: I suspect he is pitching for that. I think that among his twisted comrades in the al Qaeda, he would be viewed with an elevated respect if he were put to death by the U.S. judicial system. And for that reason, that reason's enough to oppose his execution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ARENA: Mrs. Hoglan obviously referring to the fact that Moussaoui may be considered a martyr if he's put to death. It's a concern that some of the family members that we've spoken to here share as well -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right, Kelli, the statement of Moussaoui made that he's convinced he had a dream where George Bush frees from jail. He's convinced that's going to happen. A lot of people would say that's crazy talk, and there's some who would suggest that has something to do with religion. Why don't you explain that? ARENA: Well, it was a big topic of conversation yesterday in the courtroom. And basically his defense attorneys say, look, obviously that's delusional. That's never going to happen. That shows you that he's just mentally unstable. But prosecution said, well, wait a minute, you know, Muslims place a lot of importance on their dreams, and they do believe that dreams sometimes are a vision of the truth, and that Moussaoui in believing this dream 100 percent, as he has said, only shows that he's a devoted Muslim, and that he believes that his God is all powerful and you know, supersedes everything that's going on in this courtroom. So they say that he's not delusional. They say it's just like Christians believing in the Resurrection, is one of the lines that prosecutor yesterday.

So lots of debate over this, and of course the prosecution argues that he's been very calm, sounding very reasonable, under control, in the courtroom for all these weeks. They say that's further testament to the fact that he is sane.

O'BRIEN: Well, let me ask you this, it seems as if he's plays to the media on frequent occasions, and almost says things publicly that he hasn't even said to the defense team, for that matter. Is that your sense of what's going on here?

ARENA: Well, you know, all of these outburst that you hear that he says, like yesterday he said, you know, crazy or not? That is the question. Those statements are made when the jury and the judge leave the room. He knows the rules. He waits and sits there until that jury door closes and everyone is out of the room, then he stands up and says what he's going to say, because he knows that the courtroom is filled with press, and actually one of the prosecutors brought that up yesterday, saying, you know, you're saying this because you know that the press is there, you're playing to the media. And perhaps he is, Miles. You know, every single time he leaves, he has something to say.

O'BRIEN: Sounds like someone crazy as a Fox, doesn't it?

ARENA: Some would say that, Miles, Yes.

O'BRIEN: Kelli Arena in Alexandria, thank you very much. Stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security -- Betty.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Defense Donald Rumsfeld says he is staying put, despite calls for his resignation. Now yesterday at a Pentagon briefing, Rumsfeld said he serves at the pleasure of the president. Retired General Marine General Tom Wilkerson was at that meeting, he joins us now from Washington.

Good morning to you.

MAJ. GEN. TOM WILKERSON, U.S. MARINE CORPS (RET.): Good morning. Nice to be with you.

NGUYEN: Great for you to be here.

Let's get inside this meeting. You were there; we were not. Tell us, what was discussed? What went on?

WILKERSON: Well, it's not an unusual meeting. We have those fairly regularly, I consider to be a professional undertaking on the part of the defense department P.A., and the secretary and the chairman of the joint chiefs regularly come and share time with us. And inside the meeting, they discussed current issues. Obviously, this one was among them.

NGUYEN: You say not unusual, but let me ask you this. Did you learn anything new? Was there any substance, or was it just damage control?

WILKERSON: I'm not sure how to differentiate damage control and substance. I've heard several journalists indicate this is a firestorm. And while I have great respect for the seven generals -- I think it's seven now, who have spoken out -- I wonder if that might be a bit of an exaggeration, since there are probably about 7,000 or 8,000 general are is are alive in the United States, most of them retired.

NGUYEN: You've talked about this criticism, and that's why we're asking. Did you learn anything new? What did you learn that was new in this meeting?

WILKERSON: The only thing that came out new perhaps a consistency. He indicated mostly that it was a distraction to him from the things that were most important, which was continuing to prosecute the conflict in Iraq and the global war on terror. And that having to address these with the media were things that were essentially diverted him, even temporarily, from where he was going, and that's the way he described it.

NGUYEN: Were there any criticisms that were placed in that meeting? Did you ask any hard questions? Were any hard questions about the criticism, the calls for resignation? Were those questions asked? You laugh.

WILKERSON: We're looking for whether military journalists can ask hard questions of the secretary of defense. I think there was a good exchange, and the difficult questions were asked, but you must -- and our viewers should recognize a lot of these are history.

Where we are today is what's relevant. And what might have gone before might be fun to talk about, but it doesn't change where we are today.

And one of the things emphasized is the most important thing to come in Iraq is about the formation of that government, and the irony shouldn't be lost on us or our viewers that we have very little impact over how that government will end up being formed because it's going to be done by the elected representatives, and it's not easy.

NGUYEN: I know you're talking about the government. A lot of focus is placed on that, a lot of criticism, too, because where is this going?

So I got to ask you, you have said in the past that the criticism surrounding Rumsfeld has missed the point. How so?

WILKERSON: Well, it's missed the point primarily, because in criticizing an individual, we don't pay attention to the fact that we are at a rather crucial stage in the change that is are necessary to bring Iraq back to self sufficiency. And they're geometrically more important than what's happening with any one individual in the past. All of the criticism about Secretary Rumsfeld that I have read is about thing that is have gone by.

NGUYEN: But don't you have to bring up the problems to find a solution to them?

WILKERSON: Well, the problems now are about forming that government. And whether we got there with 400,000 troops, or 130,000 troops or sooner or later, in the end, that government controls the future destiny of country of Iraq, and all three factions have to be able to support that government for it to move forward. And that question we don't have a lot of control over right now.

NGUYEN: Yes, well, the bottom line is, how is this war progressing? When is it going to end? Did you feel that that meeting helped answer some of those questions?

WILKERSON: And that's a good question. And it did and it came out in that meeting. And our question was, what is the next big event in Iraq that will portend of us having regained some of the initiative we might have lost, and be moving in a direction that the American people think leads to a successful conclusion, or a new successful waypoint. And the secretary and the chairman of the joint chiefs, General Pace, both came back and said, it's about forming that government. In the absence of a government that all of the factions are able to support, we will be in a more difficult circumstance. And, at the same time, we can't be seen to be pushing that government because if we do, then it's an American puppet,. and that's not acceptable.

NGUYEN: It's a fine line. Retired General Tom Wilkerson, we thank you for your time today.

WILKERSON: It is a pleasure.

NGUYEN: And in about 30 minutes from now, President Bush is expected to make a statement. The White House says the top sick the global war on terror. You want to stay tuned to CNN for live coverage of that.

A FEMA contractor under arrest this morning in Louisiana. Police say he tried to sell a FEMA trailer for $5,000. The contractor and an accomplice caught in a sting. Investigators are looking into whether the men sold any other trailers. Contractors paid by FEMA to deliver trailers to Katrina victims. No trailers, no homes, not much reason for hope for the future.

Despite all of that, thousands of New Orleanians are taking great pains to turn out and vote for their next mayor.

CNN's Candy Crowley with that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The midnight bus from Georgia is leaving soon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let me have your attention, please. Has everybody -- Des (ph) -- has everybody signed a clipboard with your Atlanta address on it?

CROWLEY: Lisa Delay will be on board, headed a little south and mostly west, to New Orleans.

LISA DELAY, NEW ORLEANS VOTER: So, we're on this bus, trying to do what we can. And we feel that it's -- we feel an allegiance to that city. We want to vote. We want our votes to count.

CROWLEY: Fearful that confusion, bureaucracy and the vagaries of mail delivery would keep displaced New Orleanians from getting or returning absentee ballots, the NAACP put together early-voting bus trips from Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Austin, and here in Atlanta, where they expected about 90 voters to take the ride. Less than half that number showed up, powered by gasoline, fueled by fury.

DELAY: I don't live here right now. And I can't live here right now. We don't have a home to come to. But that means that I have to do something.

CROWLEY: How many will do something? How many will vote? The secretary of state's office in Baton Rouge sent out more than 15,000 absentee ballots. By Monday, only a third had been returned. And, of the nearly 300,000 registered in Orleans Parish, about 11,000 voters cast a ballot early. Forty of them rode the bus eight-and-a-half hours from Georgia.

They stopped for gas an hour north of Mobile, Alabama. They slept along the way and ate breakfast in Slidell.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our community is going to be a better place.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

CROWLEY: They talked about jobs in Atlanta and homes in New Orleans.

Across Lake Pontchartrain, into Orleans Parish, the closer they got, the harder it was to keep going. And, whether by accident or design, as the bus passed home after ruined home, "America the Beautiful" played overhead.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

RAY CHARLES, MUSICIAN: America, America...

(END AUDIO CLIP) CROWLEY: It is 464 miles from NAACP headquarters in Atlanta to City Hall in New Orleans. They may be displaced and depressed. But, aboard the midnight bus from Georgia, they will not be disenfranchised.

DELAY: I'm glad that I made the trip. And then you vote, you know? So, you have to -- you place your faith in God, and you have done what you're supposed to do.

CROWLEY: Mission accomplished.

Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Good job, Candy. Candy's report first aired on "THE SITUATION ROOM." It airs weekdays, 4:00 p.m. and 7:00 p.m. Eastern Time.

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M. O'BRIEN: Thank you very much, Betty. Ace is going down by the way.

NGUYEN: I don't know.

M. O'BRIEN: That's the consensus in the O'Brien household. Ace is going down. Take it from us, from the O'Briens. .

All right, it's opening night for Julia Roberts on Broadway. She is box office gold in Hollywood. But how will she do at the "Great White Way," as they call it? That's Broadway here in New York.

And it's a girl for Tom and Katie. Was it a silent birth? Do they allow the baby to cry in a silent birth? I assume they do. We'll get the scoop from folks who broke the story. Who else but "People" magazine? I think they do allow them to cry.

NGUYEN: How could they stop a baby? I mean, come on.

M. O'BRIEN: They can't. They can't do that. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: In today's "A.M. Pop," a big day for actress Julia Roberts. It is opening night for her Broadway show "Three Days of Rain" -- that's what it's called. The first three weeks, though, of previews, have just packed audiences. Well tonight shouldn't be any different.

Sibila Vargas now with a glimpse behind the power of Julia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SIBILA VARGAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After more than 15 years in film and the challenge of motherhood, Julia Roberts taking on a new challenge: Broadway. She'll make her debut in Richard Greenberg's "Three Days of Rain."

J.D. HEYMAN, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: And everybody will be talking about this performance. It will be much watched. But this is a big deal, and I think she's taking it seriously. She wants to do a great job, and I'm sure she will.

VARGAS: We haven't seen much of Julia, onscreen or off, since "Ocean's Twelve" released in 2004.

JULIA ROBERTS, ACTRESS: You're doing recon work on our anniversary?

GEORGE CLOONEY, ACTOR: Tess.

VARGAS: Pregnant while filming "Ocean's Twelve," Julia took a hiatus from Hollywood to give birth Hazel and Phinnaeus, now over a year old, and to hang out with cameraman hubby Danny Moder. But the break hasn't dimmed her star. Julia the highest paid actress in Hollywood, still earning a staggering $20 million per film. "Hollywood Reporter" put Roberts at the top of its power list in 2005 for the fourth year in a row.

HEYMAN: This is a woman who did not make a movie last year, who topped power lists, who is still in magazines, who can still sell magazines, who can still hold the public interest. Her irresistible appeal is going to continue for a long, long time.

ROBERTS: We're talking 24 hours a day. It's going to cost you.

VARGAS: It's hard to forget 1990's "Pretty Woman." The role skyrocketed her to fame, and the rest was cinematic history.

ROBERTS: I've got moves you've never seen.

VARGAS: Best known and loved for romantic comedies...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're a lawyer?

ROBERTS: Hell, no. I hate lawyers, I just work for them.

VARGAS: Playing the lead role in "Erin Brockovich" in 2000 brought her an Oscar. Now we'll see if the big screen appeal will transfer to a live audience on Broadway.

Sibila Vargas, CNN Entertainment News.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

M. O'BRIEN: Top stories are ahead. The White House says President Bush will make a statement on the war on terror in just a few moments. We'll have that for you. Another arrest could be on the way in the Duke rape case.

Dozens are rescued after two New York City tram cars stall in mid-air.

And we'll tell you how to avoid getting gouged at the gas pump.

Oh, and it's a girl for Tom and Katie. We'll have the scoop on the new baby from who else? "People" magazine. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

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