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Senate Takes on Possible Amendment Banning Gay Marriage; Investigations Continue into Alleged Civilian Massacres in Iraq

Aired June 05, 2006 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Dana Bash on Capitol Hill, where the Senate takes up a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.
Why that debate now?

I'll tell you, coming up.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Shades of Abu Ghraib -- after Haditha, how can the U.S. win hearts and minds in Iraq?

Some answers from the former head of Abu Ghraib.

KAREEN WYNTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Kareen Wynter along the U.S.-Mexico-border in Arizona.

It's the first day on the job for newly deployed National Guard troops, who will be patrolling the border. They're already voicing concern. The details, coming up.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And ousting the Taliban -- it was supposed to open up Afghanistan for women's rights. In many ways, though, times haven't really changed. We'll take a look this morning.

ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: And I'm Rob Marciano live at the Georgia Aquarium, where the two newest residents of this big pool behind me arrived over the weekend. They are big, they move real slow, but they're really cool to look at.

We'll show you, coming up on this AMERICAN MORNING.

M. O'BRIEN: We like cool.

S. O'BRIEN: Cool.

M. O'BRIEN: Good morning to you.

I'm Miles O'Brien.

It's Monday.

Another week lies ahead and we're glad you're with us.

S. O'BRIEN: Slow but cool to look at.

Good morning. Welcome everybody.

I'm Soledad O'Brien.

Today, President Bush, again, will push for an amendment banning same-sex marriage. It's expected to come up to the Senate for debate today. A vote may be later in the week.

For more on this, let's get right to Ed Henry.

He's at the White House.

Dana Bash is on Capitol Hill this morning -- Dana, good morning to you.

BASH: Good morning.

S. O'BRIEN: Let's begin with you.

Nobody is expecting the two-thirds majority which you would have to have for an amendment to the constitution.

So why now?

BASH: You're right, Soledad.

This is definitely no nail biter. Nobody expects this to pass in the Senate this week. Essentially what Republican leaders say is they promised. They promised that they would bring this issue up in this session and they're keeping that promise.

They do hope this time around to get more votes than last time. In 2004,48 senators voted for a ban, a federal ban. Now, the supporters do hope to get more than 50. They say that will at least help build momentum for this issue on a national level.

But critics do say that, look, this is nothing more than a cynical ploy to try to get conservatives who are very unhappy, more and more vocally so, with Republicans, with leaders here, about the way they're doing their job. And this is a ploy simply to get them to the polls once again when they bring this up five months before an election.

S. O'BRIEN: So are conservatives then happy that the president's addressing it or unhappy that he's addressing it at what you might think would be a little late in the game?

BASH: I think both is probably the best answer to that question, Soledad.

Look, you know, I remember traveling with President Bush during the 2004 election, really late in the election, to places like Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania, where turnout was key and this is the issue that really ginned up the base.

And now what you hear from conservatives is wait a minute, that was last year's election issue. Where have you been? Not just to the president, but also Republican leaders here in Congress.

And so many of them actually feel betrayed about the fact that they didn't actually use the capital, their political capital, in 2005, and they're waiting until now, especially when it's not just this issue, of course, Soledad, it's social issues like gay marriage, but Republican conservatives are also upset about things like high spending and, also, of course, immigration -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Dana Bash for us this morning.

Dana, thanks.

Let's get right to Ed Henry.

He's at the White House this morning.

We're going to be hearing from the president later this -- early this afternoon.

What do we expect to hear from the president on this -- Ed.

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: we can expect to see some symbolism from the president. We are going to hear him come out and once again say he supports this constitutional amendment, but I think the words are not necessarily that important.

As you heard Dana Bash note, he's said this before. It's the signal he's sending to conservatives. He has a political problem here and the bottom line is that conservatives feel they have gotten some fuzziness from this White House.

The president was very solid on the issue, in their estimation, in the 2004 campaign when he needed conservatives, but what conservatives have been hearing in the last couple of years is very little from the president. But they've heard a lot from Mary Cheney, the vice president's daughter, who is a lesbian, who was promoting her book recently and blasting this constitutional amendment.

Recently the first lady, Laura Bush, gave a television interview where she said this should not be used as a campaign tool, that there should be more sensitivity brought to this debate. That's really infuriated conservatives thinking that there is really some mixed signals coming from this White House -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: So, conservatives, as we just heard Dana say, some feel maybe is a little bit too late for what they've wanted.

How about on the other side of the issue? There are some, certainly, who would say, you know, this is a diversion. There's a lot going on in Iraq. It's bad news. It's a diversion.

HENRY: Absolutely. Democrats like Joe Biden are saying that not just gay marriage, but when you look at the fact that later this summer Senate Republicans will also be bringing up a constitutional amendment banning flag burning. Democrats like Biden, a potential presidential candidate are saying look, these are not some of the top issues concerning the American people, especially in a time of war.

But, if this is -- and I stress if this is a diversionary attempt by Republicans -- who knows whether it will really work? I mean let's face it, as long as American soldiers are fighting and dying in Iraq -- and by all estimations, a large number of U.S. troops will still be there in Iraq come election day this November -- it's going to be very hard for Republicans to divert attention.

The bottom line is, whether they like it or not, Iraq is very likely to be the issue that's front and center in the midterm elections -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Ed Henry at the White House for us.

Ed, thanks.

CNN is going to have live coverage of the president's remarks.

It happens later this afternoon. It's scheduled for 1:45 Eastern -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: In Iraq, the investigations into alleged atrocities by U.S. soldiers and Marines still underway, although one is already over. Over the weekend, the military cleared U.S. Marines in the deaths of 11 Iraqi civilians on March 15th in Ishaqi. But investigations continue into two other incidents -- April 26th in Hamandiyah, in which one man was killed; the other that November incident in Haditha. Two dozen civilians killed there.

CNN's Brian Todd joining us now live from the Pentagon with more -- good morning, Brian.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Miles.

A source close to the investigation in the Hamandiyah incident tells CNN that murder charges are likely to be filed some time in the next few days, according to that source.

Now, if that does happen, this will be the first time that Marines at Camp Pendleton will be accused of intentionally killing an Iraqi civilian. That's a war crime under the Geneva Convention.

Miles alluded to this just a moment ago. This is related to an incident on April 26th, when an Iraqi civilian was killed. Seven Marines and one Navy corpsman are being held at the brig -- in the brig at Camp Pendleton right now. And a source close to the investigation tells us that murder charges are likely to be filed against what this source termed as somewhere around seven Marines in this case -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Brian, tell us, over the weekend, there was some calls, once again, for Donald Rumsfeld to resign.

Tell us about that.

TODD: That really ratchets up the situation regarding the investigation into the Haditha killings. This is a separate investigation. Last November, some 24 Iraqi civilians were killed in Haditha. Every day this past week has been something new and something very breaking about the case.

The latest thing is a call for the resignation of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld from very high up in Congress.

Take a listen to what the ranking member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee said yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D-DW), FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: He should be gone. He shouldn't be in his office tomorrow morning. When you make serious mistakes, you step forward and you acknowledge them and you walk away. Presidents can't and shouldn't do that. Secretaries of defense can and should.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TODD: No immediate reaction from the Bush administration to that call. And Secretary Rumsfeld has given no indication that he will step down.

The secretary is traveling in Asia right now. He just completed a visit to Vietnam -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Brian Todd at the Pentagon.

Thank you.

Janis Karpinski, the former Army commander at Abu Ghraib Prison in Iraq -- in just a few moments, we'll get her opinion of how lessons of Abu Ghraib might affect Haditha's investigation -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Members of the National Guard report for duty this morning along the U.S.-Mexico-border. They're part of Operation Jump Start. Eventually, 6,000 National Guard troops will assist the U.S. Border Patrol.

Let's get right to CNN's Kareen Wynter.

She is live for us in San Luis in Arizona -- hey, Kareen, good morning.

WYNTER: Soledad, good morning to you.

That's right, Saturday afternoon we saw the first wave of this initiative really put to the test here when 55 members of the Utah National Guard arrived here. It's part of a bigger initiative in terms of what the president's plan will be to really beef up security behind me along the border here, along the Arizona-Mexico-border.

Now, this field work will begin just a short time from now, around 9:00 local time this morning. These troops will begin what they're calling road construction work. They're going to be clearing away some of the gravel, some of the terrain there, to make it easier for Border Patrol agents to go after those who try to cross that area illegally.

They'll also be working on installing high tech lighting, and, of course, building the fences.

Soledad, we've already heard a lot of concern from these troops, in particular the weather here. It's extremely hot during the day, between 115 to 120 degrees at times. And so they're concerned regarding any heat casualties.

But why the Utah National Guard and why now?

One captain explained.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPTAIN TALON GREEFF, NATIONAL GUARD: We worked with other units from other states while we were at -- when we responded to Hurricane Katrina.

So there are just -- different states have different relationships and their governors work together and we were a unit that was available and Arizona had a need. And that's why we're here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WYNTER: The Utah National Guard, Soledad, will be here for two weeks before their deployment ends -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Kareen Wynter for us this morning.

Kareen, thanks -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Rob Marciano is in for Chad Myers today.

And he got an extra special field trip today.

He's at the Georgia Aquarium across the street there from CNN Center with a whale of a forecast. That Rob, he's our chum.

MARCIANO: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: I just wanted to get a couple of those out to get them out of the way for you.

MARCIANO: Well, better you than me, Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

MARCIANO: And I appreciate you doing that.

You're right, live here at the Georgia Aquarium. Now we're on top of the main exhibit tank. You can see it behind me. This thing is massive. They're telling me it's almost the size of a football field in surface area. The thing holds 6.2 million gallons of water. When you look at it from below, you're looking at it from the glass that's 29 feet high by 63 feet wide and two feet thick.

All right, let's come back up here again.

Oh, there's a whale shark. This looks like one of the newest members, either Trixie or Alice, the smaller whale sharks that were just moved in here Saturday night. And they are here to meet up with Ralph and Norton. Alice and Trixie, they're here to meet up with Ralph and Norton. Kind of a honeymoon theme -- two males, two females. You can kind of see what they're getting at.

We'll see if this experiment works and maybe we have little, little baby whale sharks at some point in the future.

(WEATHER REPORT)

MARCIANO: The water temperature here, Miles and Soledad, mid- 70s, as well. They kept it at a nice, comfortable 75 degrees.

I'm going to talk with the executive director here of the aquarium and get some information out of him about these amazing creatures that they just delivered Saturday night -- back to you.

S. O'BRIEN: Thanks, Rob.

They're so beautiful. I love the little markings on them. They're great.

MARCIANO: Yes, they are.

S. O'BRIEN: Thanks, Rob.

We'll look for that.

MARCIANO: You bet.

S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, a terror raid in Britain to tell you about. Two men under arrest. Police are now on the hunt for a chemical weapon. We've got a live report from London coming up.

M. O'BRIEN: Then, in the wake of the alleged Haditha massacre, we'll talk to the former Abu Ghraib Prison commander, Janis Karpinski. We'll find out why she says there's probably more to this story than meets the eye.

S. O'BRIEN: And the Taliban no longer in power in Afghanistan, but some of their oppressive attitudes toward women remain. We'll take an inside look at what life is like for women and children in Afghanistan, just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: In Afghanistan, young girls are going to school and that is a big deal, because they couldn't do that under the rule of the Taliban. Women also have more freedom than they did under the Taliban.

But as we learn from CNN's Barbara Starr, that freedom only stretches so far. Afghan women are still struggling.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a scene that never could have been imagined during the Taliban years -- music, singing and boys and girls together. All of this used to be banned under the fundamentalist Islamic regime.

But for the women and children of Afghanistan, life remains very tough even now.

Maleah Sahak (ph) has only to step outside her office to see the challenges for women. Here, at the Ministry of Women's Affairs, women can register complaints if they are being mistreated by their husbands or families. This long time teacher, now the deputy minister, tells us the reality is that the new government and democracy means little to many women and children.

As she sits in the courtyard, Sahak says the situation for women is very bad. "It is not OK," she tells us.

Many women like Sahak have been through the worst. During the Taliban era, because she was teaching girls, she was beaten, her arm broken. Girls were not allowed to get an education then.

Today, she is a passionate advocate for women and children. She has little patience for those who say democracy automatically has made things better.

In rural areas, she says women still don't have the right to choose who they marry, don't have the right to education and have little or no health care.

Islam, she says, does not discriminate against women. But in Afghanistan, centuries of tribal custom remain unchanged.

She takes us to a small school on the Ministry grounds. The children here are eager to learn. I asked these children if they know about the Taliban, who were thrown out of power four-and-a-half years ago. Most raised their hands.

(on camera): Are the Taliban good or bad?

(voice-over): "Very bad," this boy says, "because we were not able to come to the nursery during the Taliban years."

Sahak says her fight and the fight of Afghanistan's women and children is not over, especially now, as the Taliban are renewing their campaign of terror. In certain regions, she says, schools have been burned by Taliban fighters, families threatened. She says, "We will fight against them. This will not stop us from what we are doing. We would rather die. We will not let them come back."

Barbara Starr, CNN, Kabul, Afghanistan.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, an outrageous story to tell you about.

Take a look at this. This couple here accused of trying to sell their kids in Mexico. The horrendous details are just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

We're back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Police in Great Britain today questioning two brothers suspected in a terror plot.

That tops our look at stories our correspondents all around the world are covering today.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Paula Hancocks in London.

Two men are still being held in custody here at this central London police station after a pre-dawn raid on Friday in their home involving more than 200 police.

Now, one of the brothers who was arrested has been questioned. The other was shot during that pre-dawn raid. There are conflicting reports as to how the gun-went off.

He, at the moment, is still under medication and too ill to be questioned.

Now, there has been speculation that the intelligence that led to this raid involved a chemical device or chemical substances. Many of the police in the raid were wearing protective clothing. But as yet, nothing has been found at the house.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And I'm Ben Wedeman in Sharm-el- Sheikh, Egypt, where hopes have been rekindled for progress in the peace process.

Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert vowed to exert maximum efforts to revive talks between the Palestinians and the Israelis.

One Israeli diplomat told me Israel will play the bad cop, wielding the stick; Egypt, the good cop, holding out the carrot to coax the Palestinians back to the negotiating table.

But Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has problems of his own, grappling with Hamas in an often violent power struggle, which threatens to scuttle the best laid plans in this Egyptian resort.

M. O'BRIEN: For more on these or any of our top stories, we invite you to head to our Web site, cnn.com.

Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, President Bush making an issue of gay marriage today.

But are Americans really that concerned about this issue?

Stay with us for more on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: This morning, the politics of gay marriage.

The Senate begins debate this week on a constitutional amendment banning same-sex unions.

The president is pushing for its passage.

But is the issue all that important to most Americans?

CNN's senior political analyst, Bill Schneider, joins us in person, weighing in on the gay marriage debate -- it's nice to have you.

Thanks for stopping by.

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good to be here.

S. O'BRIEN: How do Americans feel about a constitutional amendment to -- over gay marriage?

SCHNEIDER: Split, almost exactly split. According to the latest poll from -- this, I think, is the Gallup poll -- 50 percent, exactly half, favor an amendment; 47 percent oppose an amendment.

The reason that's surprising is that every time the issue has been on ballots -- I think it's been on 11 state ballots -- it's passed rather easily, 60, 70 percent. But when it comes to a constitutional amendment, Americans aren't sure. They are not certain that this is an issue worth amending the constitution over.

S. O'BRIEN: So they don't necessarily support gay marriage?

SCHNEIDER: No.

S. O'BRIEN: But they don't necessarily support changing the constitution?

SCHNEIDER: They take changing the constitution very seriously and a lot of Americans, even those who oppose same-sex marriage, wonder is this an issue that should be in the constitution?

S. O'BRIEN: Is it an issue that Washington should be focused on right now?

SCHNEIDER: No.

S. O'BRIEN: If you look at the list of the top issues that Americans are concerned about, especially five months out from an election, number one is the war in Iraq...

SCHNEIDER: Right.

S. O'BRIEN: Number two is the economy. Number three is immigration. Number four is the gas crisis. Terrorism number five.

Gay marriage doesn't make it into the top five at all.

SCHNEIDER: That's right. It is not in the top list -- on the list, really, anywhere near the top of the list of things that Americans are concerned about.

So the question is why are they doing it?

Well, it's of concern to the so-called values voters constituency, moral conservatives, social issues voters, who feel as if they video for a Republican president and a Republican Congress that haven't delivered very much for them.

This issue is being driven as much by Republicans in Congress as by President Bush. The Republicans are worried about losing their majority. This is a -- likely to be a low turnout midterm election. They want to make sure that the Republican conservative base gets out there and votes and they're taking a risk that this issue will help drive out support from that base for Republicans.

The risk is it's very unlikely to pass. It's -- it needs a two- thirds majority in the House and Senate. It's almost certain not to get it in the Senate or the House. And therefore that base could feel disillusioned and hopeless.

Why bother to vote if the thing isn't passing?

S. O'BRIEN: But I guess risk on two fronts -- either, one, you risk the conservatives who support the constitutional amendment, saying, well, in a little bit too late, we're five months away from an election and you're kind of throwing us a bone...

SCHNEIDER: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: And, also, I would imagine, isn't there a risk that people, regardless of where they lie in the political spectrum, say why are you talking about this?

SCHNEIDER: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Can we go back to the list of things we care about -- gas prices, terror, etc. etc. etc.?

Are those risks, too? SCHNEIDER: The is -- the second is the big risk, that Congress will appear to be out of touch. They already are. It will reinforce the image of a Congress that's out of touch with ordinary Americans. In a way, it's the same risk they ran last year with the Terry Schiavo case. People said why are they doing this? Why are they taking up this case? There are so many important issues -- Iraq, immigration, the deficit, all the issues that are on the list. And they're talking about these issues.

That just angers more Americans, who say we want to vote the whole Congress out of office.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, you do run-the other end of the risk there.

President Bush, in his radio address over the weekend, had this to say.

Let's listen to a little clip.

SCHNEIDER: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We must remember that every American deserves to be treated with tolerance, respect and dignity. All of us have the duty to conduct this discussion with civility and decency toward one another.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: If the debate is, in fact, civil and decent, that could be kind of boring, couldn't it?

I mean you really, I would imagine, want to make this an emotional debate, because it's an emotional issue.

SCHNEIDER: It is an emotional issue.

Congressional debate civil and decent?

You don't see that too often. So I wouldn't count on it.

S. O'BRIEN: That doesn't make headlines.

SCHNEIDER: No.

S. O'BRIEN: In all seriousness, it doesn't make headlines...

SCHNEIDER: Well...

S. O'BRIEN: ... and that means that you don't get sort of the bang for what you're going for.

SCHNEIDER: Remember, what they're trying to do is motivate a base. And if you want to motivate a base, you've got to get emotional, you've got to get intense. Civility and decency don't usually do it.

S. O'BRIEN: Bill Schneider, nice to have you in person.

SCHNEIDER: My pleasure.

S. O'BRIEN: Thanks so much for stopping by.

SCHNEIDER: OK.

S. O'BRIEN: President Bush is expected to continue his push this afternoon.

CNN is going to bring you his remarks live at about 1:45 p.m. Eastern time, 15 minutes before the Senate debate is supposed to begin.

We've got more AMERICAN MORNING right after this short break.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: Good morning.

Welcome back, everybody.

I'm Soledad O'Brien.

M. O'BRIEN: And I'm Miles O'Brien.

Carol Costello is in the newsroom this morning looking at some headlines for us -- good morning, Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Miles.

Good morning to all of you.

Police in Lubbock, Texas are searching for a new born baby just five days old. Police believe Priscilla Maldonado was taken by a woman who pretended to be a hospital worker and befriended the baby's mother. The suspected kidnapper then paid a visit to the mother and baby at their home before taking the baby. Little Priscilla has jaundice and needs medical care.

In California, a fugitive couple accused of trying to sell their own children in Mexico. They're now awaiting extradition to Arizona. Police were apparently tipped off about the couple by the National Center for Missing and Exploiting Children. According to reports, the 3-year-old son has been found, but their 18-month-old daughter is still missing. The woman is also six months pregnant.

The first of 6,000 National Guard troops requested by President Bush to help secure the border are reporting for duty today. About 55 troops will be on the U.S.-Mexico-border extending fences and improving roads near San Luis. They're expected to carry out a two week mission. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com