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American Morning

N.Y. Tunnel Bomb Plot; London Marking One-Year Anniversary of Transit Bombings

Aired July 07, 2006 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let me give you a quick tour of what we're talking about. When we say that tunnels were targeted in New York City, there are four tunnels in all that lead from either surrounding burroughs or New Jersey into Manhattan. We have the Lincoln Tunnel, which is up here, and of course the Holland Tunnel, which we've talked about this morning. Two other tunnels crossing into Queens there, and actually there's one down here that goes into Brooklyn. And let's zoom in and tell you a little bit more about the Holland Tunnel, which is the focus of that "New York Daily News" report. The Holland tunnel is the oldest of the tunnels. The idea for it first came forth in 1906, and it was built in 1927, a mile-and- a half tunnel underneath the Hudson River. It's actually two tubes, and it is -- the tubes are actually buried in the silt and mud beneath the river, reinforced concrete, and it is very close to this location here. That is ground zero, the World Trade Center site.
According to the plot, the idea was if you blow a hole in the tunnel, you might flood Lower Manhattan, but it's difficult to understand how that could be possible, inasmuch as Lower Manhattan is above the location where high explosives would be there to blow up the tunnel. So we're tracking all for you. We'll have some experts in a little bit later to talk more about it -- Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Will do. Thank you, Miles.

Again, on the same day "The New York Daily News" is reporting a possible terrorist threat in New York, London is marking the one-year anniversary of the transit bombings there. Officials in the United States have studied those attacks, trying to figure out how to make our trains safer.

CNN's Jeanne Meserve has that for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The London bombings illustrated security shortcomings with grim clarity. Transit systems and first responders in the U.S. have studied the sad lessons.

FIRE CHIEF MICHAEL NEUHARD, MET. WASH./COUNCIL OF GOVERNMENTS: You need to expect more people than you believed would be injured, larger destruction to property than you ever believed.

MESERVE: In the years since London, Fairfax County, Virginia emergency workers, who would respond on Washington D.C.'s metro, have purchased a system to facilitate radio communications deep underground, as well as a machine to quickly refill firefighters' oxygen tanks.

BILL ROBERTS, FAIRFAX CO. VA., FIRE DEPT.: As long as we can keep our firefighters with a fresh air supply they'll keep working, no matter what the situation.

MESERVE: New York has deployed so-called smart cameras to detect out-of-place objects that could contain a bomb. Baltimore has tested a ticket machine that could recognize explosive residue. But there is as yet no machine that can detect or track chemical, biological, radiological or nuclear threats in a crowded transit environment.

CHIEF JOSEPH BOBER, NEW JERSEY TRANSIT: I envision a technology interfacing with our current camera system that should something be detected our cameras will pick it up, track the individual person or track the baggage itself.

MESERVE: There is a consensus that random bag checks, public education, new technologies and additional personnel have made transit safer, but not safe enough.

San Francisco's Bay Area rapid-transit system, for instance, got more explosive-sniffing dogs from the Transportation Security Administration, but has identified an additional $250 million worth of necessary security upgrades. That is $114 million more than the federal government is providing for the entire country in transit grants this year.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All traffic systems are full of loopholes right now, and we know the terrorists know about those loopholes, and they're itching to jump through them.

MESERVE: Johnson fears it will take another attack, one in the U.S., to focus the necessary attention and money on closing the gaps exposed so painfully in London.

Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And on the subject of money, rail security the center of the latest round of Homeland Security grants just announced. The New York area getting the lion's share of that money, just over $53 million. That's a $10 million increase over last year. That money meant for rail, bus and ferry security programs.

Stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

O'BRIEN: America's top negotiator on North Korea has just left a meeting with Chinese leaders, now on his way to South Korea. The U.S. is pushing for sanctions to punish and hopefully reign in the North Koreans. The Chinese thus far unwilling to support that idea.

Beijing bureau chief Jaime Florcruz joining us live now with more about the meeting of the undersecretary of state and gives us a sense of how that -- Jaime. JAIME FLORCRUZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Secretary Hill had a full day of talks with Chinese officials, including his counterpart, Vice Foreign Minister Mudawe (ph). He's a very important person here, because Wu (ph) is leaving for North Korea on Monday, about three days from now, and he will be able to convey to the North Koreans directly what the Chinese and what the U.S. think.

Secretary Hill says that he had good talks with the Chinese. It's very clear that they have broad agreements with the Chinese that what North Korea did was a provocation, and it was harmful to the peace in the region. He says that the way out is for North Korea to return to the six-party talks. And he says the U.S. is ready to do that as well -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Tell us about the whole issue of sanctions. China is a supplier of so many things for North Korea, really props up their economy. When you talk about sanctions, they are the ones with the leverage. And are they still at an impasse on that notion?

FLORCRUZ: Well, Secretary Hill says that that discussion on whether to impose sanctions is now confined to the discussions in the Security Council in New York. However, if it's any indication, the Chinese President Hu Jintao, in his telephone conversation with President Bush overnight, he offered to help, however, he said that China would rather see all sides to remain calm and restrained and he doesn't want any moves from any side that will only make it worse to the already bad situation -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: So in essence, they're saying no to sanctions then?

FLORCRUZ: It seems that that's a diplomatic way of saying no to sanctions, but China is willing perhaps to go with the stern statement by the Security Council in response to what North Korea did last Monday -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Jaime Florcruz in Beijing, thank you.

The North Korean crisis will be undoubtedly at the top of agenda as President Bush holds a news conference a little later this morning in Chicago. Last night, he and the first lady gave an exclusive interview to Larry King at the White House, and Larry asked about the North Korean missile firings and how best to deal with the leader of North Korea, Kim Jong-Il.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Since it's always better, one would think, to talk to somebody, would you meet with Kim Jong?

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRES. OF THE UNITED STATES: Oh, I think he'd love to have the United States sit down at the table along with Kim Jong-Il. The problem is, we tried that and it didn't work. I think the best way to solve this problem diplomatically is for there to be other nations around the table with us, so that when he looks out, when he looks at the table and he looks at the world, he hears China and the United States speaking in one voice, or China, the United States, Russia, Japan and South Korea speaking with one voice.

I am into solving problems, and I'm convinced the strategy we've got is the best way to solve this problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: "LARRY KING LIVE" on CNN every night 9:00 Eastern. You don't want to miss it.

President Bush news conference will begin at 10:50 Eastern Time. You'll see it right here on CNN -- Carol.

President's Chicago trip also to help promote other GOP candidates. And while the president's approval ratings rose a bit in recent week, they're still hovering around 40 percent. In fact, there are only five states where more than half the people think he's doing a good job.

CNN's Candy Crowley, part of the best political team on television, takes to us one of those states -- Wyoming.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If you come to Wyoming to talk politics, you will find the talk is about Wyoming.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you ready to get this thing started?

CROWLEY: It is the most Western of Western states, a place where mamas still let their babies to be cowboys, or at least act like one.

GLORIA HEDDERMAN, REALTOR: Sometimes, you got to be a little tough to be a Westerner. You know, you -- you can't give up. If you get bucked off, you got to get back on.

CROWLEY: Most of Wyoming, hundreds of thousands of acres of mountains and plains, remains unsettled an unforgiving, a heritage that's become part of the state's DNA.

DAVID REETZ, BANKER: In Wyoming, you couldn't have given up easily, if you moved here in the days when this was just sagebrush and no water systems. I mean, people here have heart. They have -- they have a kind of a stick-to-itness that we see in this president.

CROWLEY: Wyoming is the least populous state in the union, half- a-million people, less a state than a community. They know each other's families or someone who knows each other's families.

GOV. DAVE FREUDENTHAL (D), WYOMING: Loyalty is -- is hard-won and hard-lost. And, so, once people adopt that loyalty, they don't -- they're not real fickle about it.

CROWLEY: Wyoming is still Bush country, one of only five states where a recent survey found the president's job approval above 50 percent. Here, they will tell you the first American killed in Iraq was from Powell, that, when 85 Guard members were deployed from Casper, 900 people showed up to say goodbye.

Here, the Democratic governor will tell you, supporting the troops, but not supporting the war doesn't make sense.

FREUDENTHAL: I think that's -- that would be perceived here as a distinction without a difference.

CROWLEY: Here, the senior U.S. senator says the president is strong, not in spite of the war, but because of it.

SEN. CRAIG THOMAS (R), WYOMING: Nobody wants to withdraw and leave it undone. And, so, in terms of the president's posture, Iraq has a great deal to do with it in Wyoming.

CROWLEY: Here, Wyoming's Craig Thomas, a consistent conservative in the Senate, is not likely to be criticized for supporting the war.

(on camera): You're still supportive of the war?

THOMAS: Yes.

CROWLEY: Still believe the president's -- was right to do it?

THOMAS: I think so.

CROWLEY: Have you had a time when you thought, ohh?

THOMAS: Well, there are times when new things are discovered, new information is made available that apparently wasn't available at the time, and you -- you wonder, you know, we should have known that. Had we known that, would we have done the same thing?

CROWLEY (voice-over): And that's the thing they most want you to know here. Support for the president is not unthinking, not unquestioning.

REETZ: I myself, personally, would like to see a plan. I like to see more concrete objectives, even though it may not be easy to do. But I think it's -- it's kind of like we're on the train together, and we want to make sure that the conductor and the driver knows exactly where this is going.

CROWLEY: If you come to talk politics in Wyoming, you will find questions and support for George W. Bush. And, more often than not, the subject returns to Wyoming, a conversation that almost always tells you what you need to understand the politics.

HEDDERMAN: Here in Wyoming, we have an old saying. It says, you don't switch horses in the middle of the stream. And, right now, we're in the middle of a stream.

CROWLEY: Candy Crowley, CNN, Cody, Wyoming.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: In addition to Wyoming, the four other states where Bush's approval rating is above 50 percent? Utah, Idaho, Alabama and Texas. Candy's report first aired on "PAULA ZAHN NOW," which airs weeknights at 8:00 p.m. Eastern.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: In Arizona, coming up, more on this morning's developing story, an apparent terrorist plot to blow up tunnels in the New York City area. We'll talk to a former FBI assistant director and get his take on just how serious the threat was.

O'BRIEN: Also ahead, an Ohio man sent to fight in Iraq all because of a paperwork snafu. And he says he's probably to blame. We'll talk to him.

COSTELLO: And later, is this a $50 million phony? (INAUDIBLE) responds to claims it was ripped off. That's just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BUSINESS HEADLINES)

COSTELLO: Coming up, this morning's developing story, an apparent plot to blow up tunnels in the New York City area. How serious is the threat? We'll ask a former FBI assistant director. That's just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: A CNN Security Watch at the top of the news this morning. Word of a terrorist plot aimed at the tunnels that connect Manhattan, New Jersey, Brooklyn and Queens. One suspect apparently in custody in Beirut, and word al Qaeda in Iraq -- that's the Abu Musab Al Zarqawi Group, possibly a source of funding for this operation. Not clear how far along the plot was, but certainly a scary prospect wherever, whatever stage it was in.

Joining me now is counterterrorism expert, CNN security analyst Pat D'Amuro, formerly with the FBI.

You've been on the phone. What are you hearing?

PAT D'AMURO, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Well, this is a very real threat. It was in the early stages. In fact, this probably -- the information on this got out before they were ready, but there are individuals in Lebanon -- this is an investigation that goes back over a year, in conjunction with the internal security forces in Lebanon. They have done an outstanding job working with the FBI to uncover this individual, who apparently may have some links to Zarqawi.

O'BRIEN: Interesting. So the investigation was really -- the focus was in Lebanon, or was it happening here, or both?

D'AMURO: It was information that was first uncovered here through Bureau sources, FBI sources, and the source information led them to Lebanon, and they conducted a joint investigation with the internal security forces there, who really have performed admirably in assisting in this investigation.

O'BRIEN: Now "The Daily News" reporting that this first came to light, FBI officials, federal officials, who were watching the Internet and saw something on a chat room. Have you been able to confirm that one way or another?

D'AMURO: Again, when we talk about Bureau sources, they're very sensitive about the techniques and the type of information that gets collected.

O'BRIEN: I bet.

D'AMURO: So they want to try to avoid disclosing any type of techniques, so there's been some misreporting on this already, and we need to be very careful that we don't go down the same road.

But from what I've been able to determine, the Bureau sources advised the FBI of this about a little over a year ago, and this investigation has led to the identification of this individual, plus six or seven others.

O'BRIEN: The six or seven others, are they in Lebanon or are they possibly in the U.S.?

D'AMURO: My understanding is they're all overseas.

O'BRIEN: OK, so does that lead you to believe this plot was in its very early stages, if they were still overseas?

D'AMURO: From what I'm learning, this was in the very early stages. This was a planning, and it was not something where they actually had devices in place; it was a planning only situation.

O'BRIEN: OK, so no devices, no explosives acquired. This takes us back to what we saw in Miami, a very early-stage sort of situation.

You say the FBI, if they had their druthers, wouldn't have come forward on this just yet?

D'AMURO: Well, I'm not sure that this was ready to actually be broken in the news yet. There's still a lot of investigative work, my understanding, that needs to be conducted on this.

O'BRIEN: Does the fact that it's out now in the media, does that hinder the investigation, do you think?

D'AMURO: It makes it much more difficult for investigators now to focus on the individuals involved in this and try to collect additional evidence that's necessary.

But again, and not all these individuals may be in Lebanon, and when they hear that this is now coming out, everybody's going to start scattering.

O'BRIEN: The next step gets a little more tricky, I'd imagine, with all the word out. The plot, on the face of it, seemed as if it was not destined for success, quite frankly. The Holland Tunnel, actually two separate tunnels, if we're focusing on it for a moment, because that was the initial reports, deep in the mud there, poured concrete all over it. You need a tremendous amount of explosives, and then supposedly the idea was to flood the financial district. Is any of that ringing true to you?

D'AMURO: Well, the financial district of course we know wouldn't have been flooded, but it's important to remember that al Qaeda threatened these tunnels before, the Holland Tunnel specifically. But there are other tunnels...

O'BRIEN: This is back in '93, right?

D'AMURO: That's right.

This was the terror stop investigation. That's the code name for the investigation back when the blind sheikh was looking to bomb the U.N. and the Holland Tunnel. So we know that it's been on al Qaeda's screen for some time to come.

And as we know with the World Trade Center, they want to come back to areas that they've been unsuccessful before.

O'BRIEN: All right, so give us a statement here. You were in the FBI recently enough to give us a broad sense of it. Here we are on the year anniversary of the London terror bombings. A lot of people thinking about that. That we hear about this plot. I can tell you, every time I drive through one of the tunnels I think about, you know, how this would be a target. How safe is this infrastructure in New York?

D'AMURO: Well, Miles, obviously they've stopped this particular plot and this plan to blow this up. There may be other plans out there that we don't know about.

But you know, investigation since 9/11, and even prior to 9/11, focus on the prevention of these terrorist attacks, and many of them have been prevented. We need to really focus on the fact that internal-security services, intelligence services are all working together. The Joint Terrorism Task Force in New York is the oldest task force and probably one of the most prestigious. They do a great job day in and day out.

O'BRIEN: Pat D'Amuro, our CNN security analyst, formerly with the FBI, thanks for working the sources for us here. You helped us shed some light on this story as it develops.

Stay tuned to CNN CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

All the day's top stories for you after a break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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