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American Morning

Analysis of Judge's Decision in the Raid of Congressman Jefferson's Office; Seattle Mother Kidnaps 10 Month Old Son from Hospital before Life-Saving Surgery; Just How Old is Too Old to Drive?

Aired July 11, 2006 - 07:29   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: A federal judge has weighed in on that controversial FBI raid on a lawmakers' Capitol Hill office in May and it offers a clear rebuke to the congressman targeted in that bribery investigation and also for those who suggest the feds overstepped their constitutional bounds. Joining us is our senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, to walk us through the legalities of all this. The judge was very clear on this.
Jeff, good to have you back with us, by the way.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Nice to see you.

MILES O'BRIEN: And let me just share a little piece of the ruling because this is Judge Thomas Hogan, who is the chief U.S. District Judge. Where is it, "Jefferson's interpretation would have the effect of converting every congressional office into a taxpayer subsidized sanctuary for crime. Such a result is not supported by the constitution or judicial precedent and will not be adopted here." We don't have to ask him how he really feels about this, do we.

TOOBIN: You know what, I thought this case was a classic demonstration of how completely out of touch members of congress are, both with the concerns of their constituents and with what constitutional law really is.

MILES O'BRIEN: So they don't even understand the law.

TOOBIN: The law -- and also just think about the common sense of it. You know, here you have a congressman who, at the very least, is engaged in behavior that certainly merits a criminal investigation. This is a guy with $90,000 in cash wrapped up in tin foil in his freezer.

MILES O'BRIEN: Not just any cash, cash with serial numbers that matches that cash used in a sting operation that the FBI was involved in. This is the cash.

TOOBIN: Exactly so you couldn't possibly say that this is the Bush administration out to get congress. This is a totally legitimate criminal investigation against a congressman who appears entirely corrupt, and they did what a normal criminal investigator does, search the premises. So here you have not the democrats, not the republicans, the entire leadership of both parties of congress, getting on their high horse about the speech or debate clause which is supposed to protect members of congress from expressing their opinions, I mean, it was just ridiculous their legal argument.

MILES O'BRIEN: And the speech and debate clause, if you really go back and look at the history, it was to stop the executive branch from more or less arresting people on their way to vote, and in some way stopping their right to do their job. This -- there's no way this fits into that.

TOOBIN: Plus you have a search warrant here, whereas Judge Hogan pointed out you have the executive branch authorized by the judicial branch. A judge has to sign a search warrant. So this wasn't just the executive branch going off on its own to search this office. It was with the authorization of the executive branch and as he said, you know, what the legislature is trying to do here, what congress is trying to do here is say, without consultation or approval from any other branch of the government, putting themselves off limits.

MILES O'BRIEN: Now Congressman Jefferson's attorney says they will appeal. There's no surprise there. But what I found kind of interesting is, the judge in this case says the material can be reviewed immediately. So in other words, the appeal process, which could take some time, the whole thing could be moot, right?

TOOBIN: But interestingly, if you look at what the Bush administration said yesterday, they appear to have gotten somewhat nervous by the extreme congressional reaction. So they have not yet said they are going to look at the material. They set up an interesting structure. I mean the Bush administration actually went about this very carefully. They sent a team of agents who were not involved in this investigation, would review all the material first to separate out the relevant and the irrelevant stuff and that process is on hold, and we don't know if that's going to go forward.

MILES O'BRIEN: Just to underscore the point, he has not been indicted, Congressman Jefferson, but there is a grand jury and this was probably what they were waiting for, before they proceeded.

TOOBIN: Correct, but several of his colleagues have been indicted, some have pled guilty, colleagues in this apparent scheme. So, I mean I would say the odds of the Congressman Jefferson getting indicted are approximately 99.9 percent.

MILES O'BRIEN: And probably sooner rather than later.

TOOBIN: Sooner rather than later.

MILES O'BRIEN: Jeff Toobin, thank you very much.

TOOBIN: See you later.

MILES O'BRIEN: See you in a little bit. Soledad?

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Dozens or so democrats are looking past this year's midterm elections to November, 2008. And as CNN's Candy Crowley tells us, most are currently running a race to not be like Hillary Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDI CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Evan Bayh is not a household name, which is to say he is not Hillary Clinton. That could work. The junior senator from Indiana spent the end of his congressional break in Eagle Point Park Lodge in, and we're not kidding, Clinton, Iowa. And at the Raccoon Valley Community House in Adel. It is the nascent movement of the '08 democratic presidential campaign. Right now, it is roughly defined as Hillary Clinton and about a dozen others.

SEN. EVAN BAYH, (D) INDIANA: Is it a little bit of a David versus Goliath situation? Yeah, probably is. But as I recall, David did okay.

CROWLEY: Call her Goliath or the 500 pound guerilla, her office would prefer you call her not yet decided on whether to run. She is whatever else the prism through which the others are viewed, running to the left of her. Think John Kerry, Russ Feingold or to the right, think former Virginia Governor Mark Warner or Indiana Senator Evan Bayh who is in Iowa or New Hampshire just about every month.

BAYH: This is a critical juncture for our country, this is no ordinary time. There are big stakes.

CROWLEY: He talks national security, energy policy and budget. The former governor of Indiana, Bayh also thinks the next democratic nominee should have a track record of winning republican and independent support.

BAYH: People deep down they want less polarization and division. So they're going to look at all of us and say, who can help bring that about in a principled way. I think they're going to look for someone who can carry a couple of red states because they know that that's going to be what it takes to get the job done.

CROWLEY: It's not like he said she was unelectable, but that word has come up a lot in this '08 pre-game period, so much that the pro-Hillary camp felt it necessary to write an op ed outlining why she can win. Do you think she's polarizing?

BAYH: I like Hillary. I don't, but you know, that's up for the people to decide eventually.

CROWLEY: Bayh says his plan is to be who he is, which is not Hillary Clinton, but it is the guy who has five times been elected to the red state of Indiana. Candy Crowley, CNN, Davenport, Iowa.

(END OF VIDEOTAPE)

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Candy Crowley, of course, part of the best political team on TV. The report first aired in "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer, that's weekdays of course at 4:00 and at 7:00 p.m. eastern time.

(WEATHER REPORT) MILES O'BRIEN: It seems Albert Einstein wasn't just a brilliant scientist, he was also quite a ladies man as well. According to some just released letters, Einstein told his wife he had a half dozen girl friends who showered him with unwanted affection. Not sure how smart that was. Einstein spent a lot of time lecturing in Europe and the United States and he wrote hundreds of letters to his family. In them he described about six women he spent time with while being married. The letters released yesterday by Hebrew University. Soledad?

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: At one point he even said something like I'm fed up with my theory of relativity in one of the letters, really an interesting look at him.

MILES O'BRIEN: Enough with that.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Enough with that, getting tired of it.

Ahead this morning, you might have insurance to protect your home from a storm. Doesn't mean it's going to cover all the damage. This morning, we've got advice on exactly what kind of coverage you need.

MILES O'BRIEN: How old is too old to get behind the wheel? We posed that question in the wake of this scene right there.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: And a mother accused of kidnapping her own 10- month-old baby, she said she did it for his own good. Doctors say though she risked his life. We'll explain all ahead on AMERICAN MORNING. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Now to a case that's created quite a stir in Seattle. A 10-month-old baby allegedly kidnapped right from a hospital bed just days before a life saving operation. Authorities issued a nationwide amber alert, now the baby is safe but it's his mother who's in trouble. We have the story from CNN's Dan Simon.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Riley Rogers was born 10 months ago with kidney problems. Doctors say he needs dialysis to survive and might need a transplant within a few years. Riley's mother is suspicious of doctors and hospitals, but not for religious reasons. She just believes in alternative, natural therapies, vitamins and herbs.

TINA CARLSEN, RILEY'S MOTHER: I just want him to be healthy. I want him to eat good and we eat organic. I eat according to my blood type and he's the same blood type.

SIMON: That set up a showdown between his mother, Tina Carlson and Seattle's Children's Hospital. Carlsen's refusal to accept traditional medicine would have serious consequences. The case wound up here at a Tacoma, Washington courthouse where a judge made the decision to take away Riley from his mother. Riley's doctors urged the court to intervene to protect the infant.

DR. DOUG DIEKEMA, SEATTLE CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: A parent should be able to make healthcare decisions for their children until the decision, up to the point where a decision places the child at significant risk of serious harm.

SIMON: The judge put Riley in the hands of child protective services, so the hospital could treat him. Before he could begin dialysis, Riley needed to have a short operation in which doctors would insert a catheter and feeding tube. That's where the case took a turn. His mother adamantly opposed to the surgery, came up with a plan. She walked into little Riley's room and stuffed him in a diaper bag. She then hit the road. As far as the police and hospital were concerned, it was a full-blown kidnapping. Was it a kidnapping in your opinion?

CARLSEN: He's my son.

SIMON: We caught up with Carlsen for a few moments before a court appearance. You put him in a small diaper bag. Can you explain how that worked? What you did?

CARLSEN: I can't, not right now. Not right now. I'll tell you it wasn't a small diaper bag though. I can tell you that.

SIMON: Police put out an amber alert. Less than two days later Carlsen was captured, the baby brought back to the hospital, Carlsen to jail.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have been charged by information with a crime of kidnapping in the second degree.

SIMON: Carlsen pleaded not guilty and was released. If convicted she could face a year in prison. Todd Rogers, the baby's father and Carlsen's ex-boyfriend, said she did it out of fear that something would go wrong in surgery.

TODD ROGERS, RILEY'S FATHER: She firmly believed in her heart that he was going to die. And she firmly believed in her heart that he didn't need the surgery.

SIMON: Doctors and social workers say they have no doubt Carlsen loves her baby, but what's best for him, they say, is modern medicine.

DR. RICHARD MOLTENI, SEATTLE CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: I think he's leaving the hospital as healthy a child with his underlying problem that he can be.

SIMON: Carlsen will be allowed to visit Riley while supervised, at least four hours a week, as she fights the kidnapping charges and fights to regain custody. For now, Riley is living with his father, a construction worker. Who says he's ready to switch jobs to parenting. Dan Simon, CNN, Seattle.

(END OF VIDEOTAPE)

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Dan's report first aired on "AC 360." You can catch Anderson Cooper weeknights at 10:00 p.m. eastern right here on CNN. So when it comes to the health of a child, just who has the right to decide what kind of treatment is correct? Next hour we're going to speak with a teenager who is refusing chemotherapy for his Hodgkin's disease. His parents support his decisions. The state is trying to take away parental custody as a result. Does the health of a minor outweigh the rights of parents. That's ahead this morning. Miles?

MILES O'BRIEN: Up next, Andy will mind your business for you. Also ahead a closer look at road safety and elderly drivers. The issue raised yet again after a serious accident in Connecticut. The story is ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Just how old is too old to be behind the wheel? That question is again being raised after an accident this past weekend in New London, Connecticut. Take a look at the pictures, an 85-year-old driver lost control of his car, plowed into a crowd of people at a festival. 27 people were injured, two of them seriously. The crash cast yet another spotlight on elderly drivers. CNN's Brianna Keilar joins us with more on this. This is a troubling issue for a lots of people.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, definitely just how big of a risk are elderly drivers, that's a question a lot of people are asking. And we went to one expert who is doing something about it and you might be surprised to find out who this guy is.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

The speed limit up here is 15 miles per hour.

KEILAR: Do you really go 15 miles per hour around here?

Personally?

KEILAR: Personally.

Not for publication.

KEILAR: Drive around with Morty Morrison and it's like a trip back in time, way back in time. He was born on the day the "Titanic" sank and has lived through the stock market crash and two World Wars.

How old are you, Morty?

MORTY MORRISON, 94-YEAR OLD DRIVING INSTRUCTOR: 94, going on 60.

KEILAR: So when Morty went to renew his driver's license this year, it expires when he turns 100, he was surprised he was not given any exams to test his ability to keep driving. Did they check your sight?

MORRISON: They didn't check to see if I have anything.

KEILAR: That's because only two states, Illinois and New Hampshire, require drivers age 75 and older to re-take a road test when renewing their licenses, according to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. And that is something Morty is concerned about. He teaches a course to the elderly on how best to avoid accidents and when seniors should stop driving.

MORRISON: We are not as nimble nor do we have the strength, some people can't handle a wheel in an emergency.

KEILAR: Older drivers also have higher rates of fatal crashes based on miles driven than any other group, except very young drivers. That's according to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. Morty is also aware of his limitations but still feels he's a good driver. Do you think some elderly drivers get a bad rap?

MORRISON: You have to be tolerant. They generalize that all elderly are. In other words, you see one accident, therefore, you attribute to all people of a certain age group.

KEILAR: And as Morty showed me, it's hard enough for anyone to drive on the roads, so I can only imagine how someone who might be affected by age limitations would pass a driving test with him.

Okay you want me to back out or pull through? Check again, right? I feel like I'm 16 again.

MORRISON: Slow up a little.

KEILAR: I have about eight cars behind me right now. Can I turn?

MORRISON: No, no, stop over there. You stop over there. Go, go. One more, one more. That's it.

KEILAR: How did I do, Morty?

MORRISON: I vote for you. You're good.

KEILAR: Oh, good.

(END OF VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: I was certainly reevaluating some of my driving skills at that point but some things that maybe you should watch out for in a parent or even a grandparent, signs that perhaps they should be retiring from driving. If it's difficult to find gaps in traffic or if for instance they are failing to notice red lights and traffic signs. And especially if they are having trouble driving through intersections because intersections are where most crashes involving older drivers do, in fact, occur.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: See, that's the -- it sometimes seems and by the way nice job passing. You seemed very nervous.

KEILAR: I was. I actually received I think a 94 on my driving exam when I was 16.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Look at her bragging on that.

KEILAR: In a few years apparently I forgot a couple of things.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: But you know it's hard to tell if you have an elderly relative, you know you're really taking away their car, you're taking away their freedom.

KEILAR: Definitely.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: But do you want to get into an accident before you realize how bad it is.

KEILAR: And that's part of what this course that he teaches through the AARP is. Because he says how do you get to the drugstore? For instance he lives sort of out in the country, it's about five miles from the drugstore. So he says it's really a lifestyle, when you take away somebody's car.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Yeah, but you know, a lot of times you find out people can't drive when they -- like we saw in New London, Connecticut, they plow through a crowd.

KEILAR: And he says a lot of people if they forget something over time that's what this course is. It's actually an in-classroom course but he goes over safety things and a lot of the people are there actually to get a break on their insurance, if they take this course. But he says they come out of it and they've learned some new things, they've sort of had this refresher.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: 94 years old?

KEILAR: 94.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Gosh, he looks good. Alright Brianna, thank you very much.

MILES O'BRIEN: I wouldn't be worried about him driving. He's sharp.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: No, he looks alright.

MILES O'BRIEN: I hope I could pass. I don't know about that. The New York subway system testing a new way to pay the fare. Andy Serwer with that, hello Andy.

ANDY SERWER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Miles. We're talking about smart cards, and coming to New York City, and you know, this has been a long time coming. We were talking about smart card technologies for years and years.

MILES O'BRIEN: The cards they have are pretty dumb right now I think.

SERWER: They're these babies right here and if you visit New York City you've probably seen these metro cards, these little babies. And sometimes you swipe them, and sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.

MILES O'BRIEN: You have to do it at the right speed, it can't be too slow or too fast.

SERWER: Swipe again. The subway system, the MTA is rolling out a pilot program today on one subway line here in Manhattan, the 4, 5, 6, for those of you who live in the metro area. And you'll be able to use a Citicard, a MasterCard or a payment tag to simply touch and go when you get on the subway. In fact, Tiki Barber will be in Time's Square, again for those of you in the metropolitan area, to show you. Soledad's like I'm going. I'm going to go and hang out with Tiki and learn how to use a smart card. You can pre-load these things on your computer and the telephone. And you can find out more about this at the MTA website. The interesting thing, there you go, there's some footage of it.

MILES O'BRIEN: Much faster.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: EZ pass.

MILES O'BRIEN: It's an EZ pass for people, yeah.

SERWER: It's got to work better than these babies, that's the thing in terms of acceptance. If it works better, I think people will use them. If they don't, if you have to swipe again, if you have to swipe again, if you have trouble loading, these things will not be accepted. And Citibank for instance tried smart cards for just merchants over Manhattan and the metropolitan area several years ago and it did not work.

By the way, the United States is behind. London has an oyster card, Hong Kong has an octopus card. There's an oyster card right there if you're ever in the UK, you've visited and you know those. Japan has these things all over the place. I think if these things do work here in the metropolitan area, you're going to see them all across the country. You can see them at buses, trains, all kinds of ways of mass transit. And of course you use them at toll booths as well, those readers.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: EZ pass.

SERWER: Yeah, the EZ pass in the east. So you know, it's a technology that is incipient but needs to be accepted. It's got to work. That's the thing, if it works well, people will accept it.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: It's got to be better than metro card, metro card's a nightmare.

SERWER: Yeah. And then again Tiki Barber is down there too. Don't forget that.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: A better system and Tiki Barber, I'm sold already.

SERWER: There you go.

MILES O'BRIEN: What's coming up next?

SERWER: How about mega vision, the 103 inch plasma TV.

MILES O'BRIEN: Oh I want one!

SERWER: Is it big enough for you? We'll talk about that coming up.

MILES O'BRIEN: Can we talk now?

SERWER: No, you have to wait.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: You have to wait.

SERWER: Baited breath.

MILES O'BRIEN: Oh, boy! I'm shaking, I'm nervous now.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Just what the world needs.

MILES O'BRIEN: The day's top stories are coming up. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Were they killed for revenge? Insurgents post a new internet message explaining the deaths of two American soldiers in Iraq.

MILES O'BRIEN: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in Afghanistan this morning as U.S. led forces take aim on the Taliban trying to stop their advances.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Diplomacy being given a chance in Asia. The top U.S. negotiator is now meeting with Chinese officials over North Korea's missile tests.

MILES O'BRIEN: More big trouble for Boston's big dig. A tunnel ceiling crashes down, a woman is dead and a major artery shut down.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: And preparing for severe weather means more than just boarding up your windows, you have to be ready for what comes afterward. We'll learn more in "prepare and protect" series just ahead on this AMERICAN MORNING.

Welcome back everybody, I'm Soledad O'Brien.

MILES O'BRIEN: And I'm Miles O'Brien, thanks for being with us. More violence in Iraq today, offering more proof sectarian rivalry and an active insurgency undermining efforts to bring peace and bring U.S. troops home.

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