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American Morning

CIA Interrogation Techniques: What Did Congress Know; Democrats Debate in Iowa; Fortune Fight: Who Gets $182,000 Found in Wall

Aired December 13, 2007 - 07:00   ET


JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: New details are emerging on a much- anticipated report on steroid use in baseball. The Mitchell report is being released this afternoon and sources say it will not only name players, it will harshly criticize major league baseball for ignoring the problem. Former United States Senator George Mitchell has spent the last 21 months investigating steroids and baseball. Up to 80 current and former big leaguers could be implicated.
Our Alina Cho is at the national update desk. Alina, that's not all the report is going to say to that.

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, John. You know, remember this is a massive document. It's said to be 300 pages. As you mentioned, it was done over 21 months and cost millions of dollars. The headline is that the Mitchell report will reportedly expose a "serious drug culture within baseball" MVPs and all-stars are said to be involved, and the report is said to include documentation, including canceled checks, shipping slips and phone records.


LANCE WILLIAMS, SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE: I think we'll learn the names of many more players who have used banned drugs because the drug use is more extensive than perhaps many fans believe, and I think it will dishearten fans who care about the cheating problem and the drug problem in baseball.


CHO: Now reports say Mitchell will also call on major league baseball to outsource its drug testing program to an independent agency. That's one of the biggest problems. He'll also reportedly call for more transparency in drug testing like naming the drugs that players test positive for, so they can't lie about it. And finally, reports say Mitchell will also calls for classes for players on performance-enhancing drugs.

Now, it hasn't been easy for the former U.S. Senator to get information. Players have not been cooperative, so Mitchell had to rely heavily on the testimony of a former New York Mets bat boy named Kurt Radomski. Now, that's him there. Radomski pleaded guilty this year to dealing steroids to players. He agreed to talk as part of a plea agreement.

Now, Mitchell began his investigation, some of you may recall, after reports surfaced about the San Francisco-based lab Balco and its connection to baseball start Barry Bonds. Now, Bonds pleaded not guilty just last week on charges he lied to investigators about using steroids. But, John, Mitchell will be holding a news conference in New York at 2:00 this afternoon Eastern time. Major league baseball will follow two and a half hours later. But this is a very big deal especially for a sport that considers itself America's past time, and let's not forget the fans. They are hopping mad. They say enough is enough and something needs to be done.

ROBERTS: Yes, you've got to wonder is it going to affect the game going forward? Alina Cho this morning. Alina, thanks.

The CNN family of networks, by the way, will have complete live coverage of the Mitchell report released. Our sister network, "Headline News" will carry the event starting at 2:00 p.m. Eastern live.

But first, the founder of Balco labs, Victor Conte, will be on "CNN NEWSROOM." That starts at 9:00 a.m. Eastern, right after AMERICAN MORNING -- Kiran.

KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the northeast will be bracing for a one-two punch of winter weather. Taking a look at the radar picture right now, you can see snow and sleet, the areas in pink, due to arrive in the next couple of hours. As much as a foot of snow could come down in some parts before it's over today, and it could look like this when it all comes down.

Cities up and down the northeast are bracing for a second storm that would take aim over the weekend. Our Rob Marciano is at the weather update desk tracking extreme weather, letting us know where we need to look out for and how much we could get. Hey Rob.

ROB MARCIANO, AMERICAN MORNING METEOROLOGIST: Hi, Kiran. This will be the first real big winter storm of the season. As you mentioned, there's going to be a couple of them still to boot. Let's go over to the radar scope and show you exactly what is happening.

Right now, the moisture moving in towards the northeast but it's in the Ohio River Valley for the most part, into the Tennessee Valley as well and shifting this way. This is not a terribly strong area of low pressure, but it does have a fair amount of moisture. It is pretty much the back end of the system that has been affecting parts of the Midwest in the way of some ice.

We are looking at a little bit of snowfall that's trying to push into parts of western Pennsylvania and western New York State. At this point, we have winter storm warnings and heavy snow warnings out for the red area here, which we could see six to 12 inches of snow but there is a very small line that delineates six inches to say two inches, which will be more or less the forecast for the New York City area.

The I-95 area will be more of an ice and sleet and snow mix, but the areas in purple here from Scranton to Hartford could see 12 inches or more. It should point out that the next system that's going to come into town on Saturday night and Sunday is developing over the areas that saw ice this past week, Oklahoma City, Kiran, is under a winter storm watch with snow expected to develop there over the next 36 hours. Back to you.

CHETRY: All right. Get ready. We'll all try to prepare. Thanks, Rob.

MARCIANO: You got it.

CHETRY: Meanwhile, the big chill is far from over in the Midwest as well. Nearly half a million people still without power. President Bush issuing an emergency disaster declaration for Kansas, one of a handful of states still thawing out after the massive ice storm that hit. Much of the damage is from fallen trees and branches that snapped power lines.

Oklahoma's governor says that parts of his state look like a war zone. Half a million homes and businesses still without electricity, and it could be another 10 days before power is fully restored. They're also saying at least 32 people died because of the storm. Many of them in accidents on the treacherous roadways.

ROBERTS: Just crossing five minutes after the hour, new this morning. President Bush has vetoed the S-chip health insurance program for poor children for the second time now. The president says the bill is essentially identical to the one that he vetoed back in October. The president proposed adding $5 billion to the program over the next five years and said the version that he vetoed would have encouraged families to leave private insurance and sign up to the government program. Democrats say the new version addressed Republican objections, including tightening restrictions on illegal immigrants.

Democrats are reportedly giving in to the president on war funding. No strings attached. Democrats and Republicans privately say they are closing in on a bill that will include as much as $70 billion to pay for the war in Iraq, and it will not call for most U.S. troops to come home by the end of next year.

The head of the CIA grilled on Capitol Hill. Members of the House intelligence committee say CIA Director Michael Hayden did not keep them informed about the destruction of videotapes showing agents using waterboarding and other so-called enhanced interrogation techniques on Al Qaeda operatives.


MICHAEL HAYDEN, CIA DIRECTOR: I was aware of the existence of the tapes but really didn't become focused on it until the summer of '06 when I became director and at that point, was preparing to come up in September to brief the committee on all -- the full committee, all members on all aspects. And I think it's fair to say that particularly at the time of the destruction, we could have done an awful lot better in keeping the committee alerted and informed after that activity.

(END VIDEO CLIP) ROBERTS: It was an about-face for Hayden. In a memo to CIA employees, he claimed congressional leaders had been informed years ago about the destruction of those tapes.

Turning now to the race for the White House and the political irony of being a candidate and current U.S. senator. Four candidates will vote on an energy-saving measure on Capitol Hill today and then they will immediately fly to Iowa for the debates on -- get this -- separate chartered aircraft.

CNN's Jessica Yellin is live in Des Moines. We'll talk about that in a second, Jessica. But first of all, a suggestion yesterday from somebody on the Clinton side of things, that people should take a closer look at Barack Obama's admitted drug use. Was that an officially-sanctioned attack, and does it look like a move of desperation at this point?

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That is the question, and it's a good one, John. It came from Billy Shaheen who is a key campaign official with the Clinton campaign and also a power in New Hampshire politics. He was talking to "The Washington Post" and he told them that "as voters consider Obama's electability, they should consider the fact that he's admitted to using both cocaine and marijuana in the past."

Now, this is no secret. Obama writes about it in his book. Since then, the Clinton campaign has distanced itself from his remarks, and Shaheen has himself apologized saying, oh, this wasn't sanctioned in any way. But that is a bit of a surprise from a campaign that is so tightly controlled and well-managed. And the Barack Obama campaign is saying that this just wreaks of desperation at a time when Clinton has lost her strong lead in these early states and is under increasing pressure to remind voters why they should pick her over Barack Obama. A lot of pressure on her in this state in particular as she prepares to debate today -- John.

ROBERTS: Well, Jessica, how flipped out is the Clinton campaign about those falling poll numbers, and how will that be reflected in today's debate?

YELLIN: Well, it certainly allows Barack Obama right now to remain above the fray in talking about the issues while Clinton has to focus on trying to remind voters of her differences from Barack Obama, which often comes across and read as more negative. It allows Obama to stay optimistic, which is his winning strong suit -- John.

ROBERTS: And what about this idea of separate planes coming back from Washington today? They never heard of, I guess for lack of a better word, air pooling?

YELLIN: Isn't it too much? They're going to Washington D.C. for this vote on a new build that would improve our fuel mileage so we burn less and create less fewer carbon emissions, but they couldn't agree on ride sharing back to here. So four senators are taking four separate charters. I'm told personally that there was discussion of ride sharing. It just never came to pass. I guess they wanted their own private planes separately, and you could imagine the carbon footprint they're going to leave behind.


YELLIN: A little ironic, John.

ROBERTS: Maybe we can turn Jack Cafferty loose on that later on today. Jessica Yellin for us this morning. Jessica, thanks.

And, by the way, CNN is going to bring you the full debate live this afternoon, hopefully beginning at 2:00 Eastern. We'll see when those senators get out there -- Kiran.

CHETRY: They probably weren't leaving from the same place, so they probably weren't going to the same city so it's hard.

An amazing rescue in an Atlanta parking garage. A car dangling seven stories off the ground after it fell off the edge of a parking deck. Steel cables on the side of the deck caught the car and then reached it without dislodging it. Emergency workers had to climb the deck's top floor, one story above the car and then repel down the side of the building. They were able to reach through the windows to put a safety harness on the driver and pull him out to safety.


CAPTAIN BILL MAY, ATLANTA FIRE RESCUE: It's just amazing that he did not fall all the way down, that it was being held there literally on the side of the building. I've seen him halfway out before, but to be completely out like that and still on the side of the building is just amazing.


CHETRY: I mean, can you just imagine? Check it out. Rescue workers had no idea they were trying to work on this. At any moment, the cable could snap and the car could fall. But police say the man only hit his head on the windshield and even though he was taken away in a stretcher, they say he's fine. How did it happen? Well, they say he sped up the ramp and then just went right through the wires.

This Christmas you could be trimming the tree with ornaments made in a Chinese sweat shop and not even know it. The National Labor Committee says that some ornaments supplied to Wal-Mart are made in sweat shop conditions in China, workers there working 15 hours a day, seven days a week, getting 26 cents an hour and being forced to handle toxic chemicals without protective gear. Wal-Mart now says it is investigating those claims.

Ike Turner being remembered this morning as a pioneer of rock 'n' roll. He died yesterday at his home in California. The cause is not known. A large part of Turner's musical legacy is shared with his former wife, Tina Turner. They recorded what may be his most popular song "Proud Mary." Tina Turner left him back in 1976 after years of spousal abuse. Ike Turner was 76 years old.

ROBERTS: If you are the parent of a newborn child or you are expecting soon, you're going to want to listen up to this. A major vaccine alert, more than a million doses of a common vaccine given to infants are being recalled this morning. Our Elizabeth Cohen at the medical update desk in Atlanta. What's this all about, Elizabeth?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: John, this is quite unprecedented to have a recall of more than a million doses of a childhood vaccine. Let's take a look at some of the basic facts. Again, the number of doses that have been recalled are about a million because they were potentially contaminated. This is a vaccine that Merck makes, and Merck says that they identified a point in the manufacturing process where bacteria could get in and survive the sterilization process.

This is a recall of all of Merck Hib vaccines shipped since April. So again, this has been going on for quite some time. Now, parents I'm sure are wondering, I know as I did, gosh, my child may have gotten this vaccine in the past couple of months. What does this mean?

And Federal health officials are very clear. They say if your child got this Hib vaccine in the past week and you noticed bumps or a rash or something around the site, around that site where they were actually vaccinated on their leg, you should go see your doctor. If the child received the vaccine more than a week ago, you're fine -- John.

ROBERTS: What about this creating a shortage of vaccine? Will there be enough to go around after this recall?

COHEN: Well, you know, it's interesting. We asked CDC Director Julie Gerberding about this and she said, absolutely, there's going to be a shortage. They are very out in the open about this. They say that it's because Merck makes half of the vaccines for this particular illness, they're not making it right now. They're not going to ship any for likely several months at least. So yes, there will be a shortage. Kids are probably not going to get this on schedule.

Health officials are not too concerned. They say that there's not a lot of this disease running around the United States anymore, but they say that at some point they may have to talk about rationing and who will need to get it.

ROBERTS: Now, so many things to worry about when you're the parent of a newborn, as you know is to have one more thing to the mix.


ROBERTS: Elizabeth Cohen for us this morning. Elizabeth, thanks.

COHEN: Thanks.


CHETRY: Former Democratic Senator Bob Graham briefed on terror issues after 9/11. But was he aware of waterboarding and what does he think about the congressional outrage now about these "enhanced interrogations"? We're going to ask him ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.


ROBERTS: Sixteen minutes after the hour. CIA Director Michael Hayden admits his agency should have done more to keep members of Congress informed about the destruction of videotapes and interrogations that featured waterboarding and other harsh tactics. They were used on Al Qaeda operatives in 2002 and 2003. Officials claimed they had congressional approval to waterboard.

Former Senator Bob Graham was the chairman of the Senate intelligence committee during that period. Was he briefed on the use of this controversial technique? He joins us now live from Orlando, Florida to talk more about this.

Senator Graham, "The Washington Post" says that in 2002, the CIA briefed four members of Congress about overseas detention sites and the so-called enhanced interrogation techniques. Were you in on that briefing?

BOB GRAHAM, FORMER FLORIDA SENATOR: No, I was briefed on a number of other activities that were going on after 9/11 but not on this issue of the use of torture to gain information from detainees.

ROBERTS: Well, if you weren't briefed, who was?

GRAHAM: Well, that's a good question. The story in "The Post" listed one person now speaker Nancy Pelosi, inferred a list of other people who might have been briefed. I can only speak for myself. I was not one of those.

ROBERTS: Right. Should you have been briefed?

GRAHAM: Not only should I have been briefed but the entire committee has been briefed. The only basis for what they called these covert gang of four briefings is where the president has indicated there's an action that's being undertaken for which the United States wants to have deniability. It's not a blanket for every subject that the intelligence community might be involved with. In my judgment, this was not a covert operation and should have been briefed to the entire intelligence committee.

ROBERTS: You know, we should just point out that the gang of four is made up of the chairman and ranking members of the intelligence committees in the House and in the Senate. When you go into these classified briefings, what's the structure? Are you -- can you bring in an attorney? Can you consult over things like waterboarding to get a sense of it?

GRAHAM: In addition to the fact that the full members of the committee can't hear what's happening, those who are in the room are very restricted. You can't take any notes. You can't bring anyone with you and after the meeting, you cannot discuss what you've heard. So that if, for instance, there's an issue about, is this legal under the Geneva Convention, you can't go to someone who's an expert on that subject and get their opinion. It's a very limiting situation. But let me say, this is not an isolated episode. This administration has had a practice of covering up and disclosing what they were doing in a variety of manners. This is just one example of an ongoing pattern.

ROBERTS: Senator Graham, a couple of days ago we were joined here on the program by John Kiriakou. He is a former agent with the former officer with the CIA. He was involved in the capture of Abu Zubaydah. You've probably seen him on television. We asked him about waterboarding and whether or not it was effective in gleaning information from suspects. Take a quick listen to what he said.


JOHN KIRIAKOU, EX-CIA AGENT: I have no doubt that the information gleaned from Abu Zubaydah in this early days stopped terrorist attacks that saved lives.

ROBERTS (on camera): Did it also lead you to other suspects?

KIRIAKOU: It did. It did indeed.


ROBERTS: So Senator Graham, in retrospect, the question is and I know this is a huge argument surrounding these enhanced interrogation techniques, if in fact using waterboard selectively on people like Abu Zubaydah and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed did result in saving American lives, was it the right thing to do?

GRAHAM: Well, first I think we need to probe just how effective this technique has been. You know, the United States constitution specifically prohibits torture and the basis is that the information gathered when someone is being tortured is inherently unreliable. But I think that if something like this is going to be done, it ought to be done singularly at the direction of the president of the United States, just as Abraham Lincoln took responsibility for lifting habeas corpus during the period of the civil war.


GRAHAM: If the president wants to do something like this, he should take responsibility.

ROBERTS: So are you suggesting then that you may be willing to allow some of these enhanced interrogation techniques if the order comes directly from the president?

GRAHAM: I think the standard for the United States should be, we do not torture. These are always, however, put into the most extreme situations. There's a ticking bomb. This person knows where the bomb is. He won't tell us. If that's the circumstance, then the president of the United States should take personal responsibility for violating the law, and as Abraham Lincoln did, go back to the American public later and ask for their retroactive approval of what he had done.

ROBERTS: Interesting opinion there.

Former Senator Bob Graham, it's always good to see you. The best of the holiday season to you. I know you'll be headed up to the snow soon, so hope you enjoy your time with your family.

GRAHAM: Thank you very much, John. And come to Orlando where it's 82 degrees.

ROBERTS: I might do that this afternoon. Senator, thanks again -- Kiran.

GRAHAM: Thanks.

CHETRY: Well, a former New York Mets clubhouse attendant, that is the man said to have named dozens of steroid-using players in the new Mitchell report due out in a few hours. The report will name up to 80 players past and present. Sources say it will also be highly critical of baseball for letting the problem get out of hand.

And that brings us to this morning's "Quick Vote" question. Who's more to blame for the baseball steroid scandal? Cast your vote at

We ask, was it the players doing it? Half of you said yes. Was it the league for not doing enough to stop it? Half of you said yes so split right down the middle. We're going to continue to update the votes all morning.

Knocking out a wall, a contractor stumbles upon a fortune. Now, after finding a ton of money hidden deep inside of a woman's home, he's saying it's finders keepers. Is it? That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.


CHETRY: Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING. If you found $182,000 in someone else's house, would you get to keep it?

Well, a contractor in Ohio did just that, finding the money hidden in a bathroom wall. It had been hidden for 70 years, and the old currency is now worth up to $500,000. The home owner offered the contractor a 10 percent finder's fee, but he says he deserves more. The homeowner's lawyer, of course, disagrees.


BOB KITTS, CONTRACTOR: I thought I was going to pass out.

JOHN CHAMBERS, AMANDA REECE'S ATTORNEY: He, in essence, expects to be rewarded for not stealing this money.


CHETRY: The money may have actually belonged to the home's original owner who built the house back in 1922. Apparently, there's some back and forth debate since the current owner didn't hide the money and the contractor found it, does he get to keep it?

ROBERTS: It's unusual that people were even hiding money in the walls in the first place. Remember we saw some of that post-Katrina down in New Orleans. People had hidden large amounts of money in the walls.

CHETRY: But it's your house.

ROBERTS: I guess --

CHETRY: I mean, if you buy the house don't you get to buy the hidden treasures?

ROBERTS: Do you get everything that's inside the house? You would probably think so.

Hey, here's a story coming up in our next half hour that you're really going to love. A brave Dunkin' donuts clerk fights off a thief with his tip jar. We're going to have an exclusive interview with him. Look at this.

CHETRY: And how about this Dunkin' Donuts. Well, they say they do not endorse their clerks fighting back. They were nice enough to send over a bunch of doughnuts for us. I guess they want to give us a sugar high before we talk to Mr. Hawkins.

ROBERTS: Well, you've got to wonder. Was it a sugar rush that led him to whack the guy with the tip jar in the first place? Thank you very much for the coffee, though.

And it's a story that we're following very closely for you this morning. A report on steroid use in baseball due out in just hours.

CHETRY: How about that. Among the details we're learning up to 80 current and former players will be named. How about the fallout and will anything actually change? Well, we'll talk about it with "Sports Illustrated's" senior investigative reporters when we come back.


ROBERTS: Just scratching the half hour now. And a shot of the skyline of Manhattan and those clouds that you see up there, those are snow clouds. As much as one to three inches will fall in the city today, parts of north of here into Vermont and other parts of New England could be as much as a foot of snow. Expecting a couple of weather events over the next couple of days.

Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING, Thursday, the 13th of December. I'm John Roberts.

JOHN ROBERTS, CNN, ANCHOR: ... into Vermont, and other parts of New England could be as much as a foot of snow. Expecting a couple of weather events over the next couple of days. Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING, Thursday the 13th of December. I'm John Roberts.

KIRAN CHETRY, CNN, ANCHOR: And I'm Kiran Chetry. That's about as good as it's going to look today because it's going to switch over to a little sweet mixture.

ROBERTS: It will be a mess later on today and the weekend, too.

CHETRY: And right now the airports have no delays but it's early. So, let's see what happens.

ROBERTS: That will change.

CHETRY: Brace for that, bring your patience. Well, we also have some new comments from Al Gore just coming in. Speaking at a news conference on climate change in Bali. The Nobel Peace Prize winner blamed the United States.


AL GORE, NOBEL PEACE PRIZE WINNER: My own country, the United States, is principally responsible for obstructing progress here in Bali. We all know that. We all know that. But, but my country is not the only one that can take steps to ensure that we move forward from Bali with progress and with hope.


CHETRY: Al Gore referring to the Bush administration refusing to agree to specific standards for cutting greenhouse gases, caused a rift with many European nations.

ROBERTS: Now, let's get more now on the nasty weather that's expected in the northeast today. Winter storm might dump up to a foot of snow in some places when all is said and done and that's apparently is just the beginning. Rob Marciano tracking extreme weather from the CNN weather desk in Atlanta. I guess the upside of this, Rob, is ski resorts in Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine are going to get some good snow.

ROB MARCIANO, CNN, METEOROLOGIST: They will, as well as some of the small resorts in upstate New York and the Berkshires of Massachusetts you're going to get some action as well. This is kind of part of the system that dumped all the ice across parts of Oklahoma, all of the snow across Colorado. Now, it's beginning to shift eastward, just a cold rain but you notice this rain shield, moisture shield is pretty solid. So we're going to get a decent amount of precip out of this. The question is, do you get snow, do you get a mix or do you get rain? We'll try to hammer that out for you but as typically is the case with this little nor'easters that scoot by, it's all about location, my friend.

And with the Atlantic Ocean nearby that definitely complicates things so that more north and west you are of the city, the higher amount you will get. 8 to 12 in Hartford, 6 to 10 in Boston. A lot of that could come down in a short period of time and two to four inches probably in New York City but you know, it will be icy, it will be slick, it will be sleet and with the moisture arriving we're looking for big time delays across much of the major metropolitan airports beginning this afternoon, hour plus in many areas from La Guardia to Philly, Pittsburgh. Looks like Chicago O'Hare you should be OK, so should Denver but if you have to travel south towards Atlanta you'll probably see some delays as well. Dallas could see a few delays also with 30 minutes to one-hour delays there.

There is a winter storm watch now posted for parts of Oklahoma. And you could you imagine if you don't have power and you've got ice on the roadways and on the tree limbs, still, two to four inches of snow expected with this next system, which will follow pretty much the same track as the current system, and this one will dump more snow, looks like over the weekend, across the northeast, Saturday night into Sunday. Very active winter weather patterns shaping up. Back up to you, Kiran.

CHETRY: All right. Rob, we'll be tracking it throughout the morning with you. Thanks so much.


CHETRY: And a man wanted in connection with a school bus stop shooting in Las Vegas is now under arrest. Police say they tracked down 18-year-old Miko Tatum in Denver after getting a tip that he was on a bus to Chicago. The shooting on Tuesday wounded five teenagers and a 21-year-old man. One of the teens is still in the hospital. The suspect is expected to face six counts of attempted murder with a deadly weapon.

And the parents of the man who shot and killed four people in Colorado Sunday still say they cannot understand why their son did it. Matthew Murray's parents said in a statement "we loved Matthew with all of our hearts and we're groping for answers as we try in vain to understand the events of last Sunday." They will hold a private funeral for Murray later this week.

A Massachusetts woman awarded $2.5 million after getting misdiagnosed with HIV and being treated for the disease for nine years. Well, it turned out she never actually had the AIDS virus and the drugs she was taking to fight the HIV. Of course, triggered other problems, including depression, chronic fatigue and weight loss. The doctor who treated her said she had no reason to question the original diagnosis at another clinic.

ROBERTS: 34 minutes after the hour. We have been bringing you details on it all morning long, the much anticipated report on performance-enhancing drugs in major league baseball. It will be released this afternoon at 2:00 p.m. Eastern. And in it as many as 80 players and possibly some very big names. It's also expected to recommend beefed up testing of players by an outside agency. "Sports Illustrated" senior investigative reporter Luis Fernando Llosa has extensively covered the story. He joins me now. So, what about this idea of naming names, how big is this going to be?

LUIS FERNANDO LLOSA, SPORTS ILLUSTRATED: Well, that's what everybody is waiting for right now. Everybody wants to know about possible all-stars and Cy Young award winners who might be on this list who aren't already been outed and that's what we're all awaiting. Now, most of the names would be coming from the source, Kurt Radomski, who's the Mets clubhouse guy who has been cooperating based on what he's been told.

ROBERTS: Saying that he got steroids, HGH amphetamines for a lot of major league baseball players, he didn't name names publicly.

LLOSA: He hasn't yet. I think it's a condition of his plea agreement that he be mute on this, but now is when these names are going to be coming out. It's interesting, in fact, that they've been able to keep these names under wraps when all of these other names have been coming out, based on the work in the Albany case, with Signature Pharmacy in Florida.

ROBERTS: The Balco Labs thing as well.

LLOSA: Exactly.

ROBERTS: So, we're hearing that some of these will be current players. What is the potential impact for that?

LLOSA: That's going to be huge. I mean, especially it's an interesting time right now with free agency negotiations having just occurred, whether there's going to be an impact on people, imagine if you've just, you know, plunked down $120 million for a player and you maybe traded away four players for that player and they're named, that sort of certainly tarnishes your deal-making there.

ROBERTS: Right and what's it going to mean for the future of the game as well? We had a reporter from "The Washington Post" on earlier who thought this may finally crack open the collective bargaining agreement to be able to institute some tougher measures against the abuse of drugs in major league baseball.

LLOSA: Well, that's a good point. There will be some really good recommendations coming down. The independent testing and testing of the highest, at the highest level, I mean the fact that major league baseball and the union govern the testing program makes no sense at all. That's, you know, conflict of interest. It should be an outside agency and they should be using the highest, best technology for this and not reporting to anybody really and so that's going to change things, I think. I mean, this is a turning point for baseball. They can really go in the right direction here or more of the same. I mean...

ROBERTS: They're not bound by this report, are they? LLOSA: They are not.

ROBERTS: The findings and suggestions.

LLOSA: But you know, in a sense they are. I man, look at cycling and how that sport has devolved because proactiveness wasn't at the fore back in '99 and 2000, when problems were coming to the surface. I mean baseball has to make these changes and the union has to work with them.

ROBERTS: When you talk about cycling, one thing we have seen in cycling is that when these people come forward and say I used drugs they are subject to prosecution. Could some of these players be prosecuted? There was no ban of steroids until 2002.

LLOSA: Right. Prosecution by law enforcement is unlikely, because in all of these investigations, that have been going down, the targets have been the manufacturers of and distributors, so that's not likely but certainly baseball has already, in a sense, been prosecuting some of the players through the testing program and a guy like Jay Gibbons, and this is pretty big, from the Orioles, was given a 15-game suspension, having never tested positive. That's a huge change. That's what Balco did for the Olympics.

ROBERTS: No question in your mind, this will be huge today?

LLOSA: I think will be big no matter what, yes.

ROBERTS: Luis Fernando Llosa, senior investigative reporter for "Sports Illustrated." Good of to you come in this morning.

LLOSA: My pleasure.

ROBERTS: Looking forward to seeing your reporting on this later on today.

LLOSA: Thank you.

ROBERTS: And remember, we're following the story for you all morning long here In AMERICAN MORNING and on Coming up at 9:00, CNN NEWSROOM will talk with Victor Conte. He is the founder of Balco Laboratories, the company once at the center of the steroid scandal. The CNN family of network will have complete live coverage of the Mitchell report release. Our sister network "Headline News" will carry that event live, starting at 2:00 p.m. Eastern. Kiran.

CHETRY: All right. First the founder - we'll talk more about that in a couple of minutes. Congress, by the way, cracking down and posing new rules on holiday parties. You can take a closer look at that.

Also ahead he didn't just want to look bad on YouTube. He actually wanted to make sure that someone didn't rob his store. The clerk at Dunkin' Donuts who fought back. We have an exclusive interview with him, coming up.


CHETRY: Welcome back. It's a holiday tradition in the nation's capitol, that's when the lobbyists lavish members of Congress with big end of the year parties. There are new rules now in place after a crackdown on ethics violations and some of those restrictions may surprise you. AMERICAN MORNING'S Chris Lawrence is live from Capitol Hill this morning. Hi, Chris.

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN, CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kiran. Surprise you and maybe even make you laugh. You know, you may be able to use a fork at your holiday party but your senator or congresswoman can't. Sounds crazy but this is the first Christmas under these new ethics rules. Jingle bells, jingle bells...


LAWRENCE (voice-over): New rules for Christmas in the Capitol. Forks are out. Finger food's in. Lobbyists aren't allowed to wine and dine like Christmas past so congressional staffers who go to their parties won't sit down or eat lavish meals. They can't even use silverware.

LINDA DARKE, CHARLIE PALMER'S STEAKHOUSE: We can't have a fork. I mean we had one group here that they didn't want to see a fork in the place.

LAWRENCE: Catering manager Linda Darke is trying to comply with the so-called toothpick rule which means senator so and so will be eating French fries, not filet.

DARKE: They can pull it out with their fingers versus putting a fork and you know, it's a finger food.

LAWRENCE: This season, the ethics committee is putting a cap on how lavish these parties can be. So Washington watchdog Melanie Sloan says lawmakers are under the microscope as well as the mistletoe.

MELANIE SLOAN, WASHINGTON WATCHDOG: Staff and members are going to the Ethics Committee and asking whether or not they can go to these kinds of parties.

LAWRENCE: Tooth pick parties are OK, as well as so-called widely-attended events.

SLOAN: If you have such a party, then you can serve whatever you want.

LAWRENCE: The catch? The lobbyist has to bring at least 25 other people to the party who don't work on Capitol Hill.

SLOAN: If they have to drag in their own children and friends to that event, they are not going to screw that up.

LAWRENCE: It's supposed to ensure lobbyists don't get all of this private time with staff members and a lot of invitations spell out exactly why it's OK to attend. (END VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE: Yes. Don't cry for your favorite senator or congressman just yet. I mean, it's still getting catered by, you know, great restaurants like Charlie Palmer's and the entertainment is not too bad either. Just last night the recording industry threw a big holiday party with Wyclef Sean as the entertainment. Kiran.

CHETRY: Yes, that's not too bad, right?. He's allowed to bring a microphone though, that doesn't violate anything.

LAWRENCE: No. Not yet. Give them time.

CHETRY: What happens about enforcement, what happens if a member of Congress or a staffer goes to a party that sort of breaks this new rules. Is it more shaming or can they actually get in trouble?

LAWRENCE: Yes, in all honesty, probably nothing. Melanie Sloan knows better than anyone and she said, you know, the thing is, all these ethics scandals that happened before, you know, happened with ethics rules in place, but the committee just has no teeth. There was no enforcement at that time, and now, what you're looking at is the situation where only the members of congress can file a complaint. You know, it just doesn't happen all that often.

CHETRY: And what's the point about saying no forks. They just don't want these elaborate sit-down dinners, is that why they say no forks?

LAWRENCE: Exactly, you're standing up eating with a toothpick. It's more casual than sitting down with a fork to a dinner, you know.

CHETRY: I got you.

LAWRENCE: It's a little more formal.

CHETRY: I'm sure the shrimp tastes just as good even on tooth pick.

CHETRY: Chris Lawrence, thanks for being with us.

ROBERTS: A Dunkin' Donuts clerk uses a tip jar to fight off a robber. We're going to hear his story straight ahead on AMERICAN MORNING. It's a tale of bravery.


ROBERTS: 48 minutes after the hour. If you're just joining us, here's a look at what's making headline this morning. Up to 80 major leaguers, some very big names, that's one of the shocking detail we're learning now about the Mitchell Report on steroid use in baseball. That report comes out at 2:00 p.m. Eastern this afternoon. We are learning that some of the players in the report are most valuable players, all-stars, Cy Young award winners.

The northeast bracing for a winter storm today. Snow and sleet expected to arrive in the next couple of hours. As much as a foot of snow could fall in some parts before it's over today. A second more powerful storm is expected over the weekend.

CHETRY: Well, a guy named Dustin Hoffman, no relation to the actor, well, that you've checked, is now a star in his own highlight reel. Dustin was working at the Dunkin' Donuts in Elmwood Park, New Jersey, when a thief lunged across the counter and reached into his cash register. There you see Dustin fighting back.

ROBERTS: Yes, grabbing the tip cup and whacking him over the head. Because he wasn't going to stand for the guy robbing him on his watch, not just to save the tips. He said that he didn't want to look bad if the surveillance video ever made it to the internet. Dustin Hoffman here now for an exclusive interview. You said that to a local reporter. Was that what was going through your mind at the time?

DUSTIN HOFFMAN, CLERK HIT ROBBER WITH TIP JAR: No. That's amongst one of the many things that I told her was going through my mind at the moment. What she thought, let me just blow this up headline, YouTube, Dustin Hoffman, Dunkin' Donuts. I got a big one here.

CHETRY: Don't feel bad. It happens to the political candidates all the time, too.

HOFFMAN: I said I felt like Britney Spears. I feel like Britney, everyone's against me.

CHETRY: No, but was going through your mind when that happened. I mean, he obviously caught you off guard but you had a very quick reaction.

HOFFMAN: Well, you see the way I jumped back as soon as he did that, my whole body went completely numb and I realized that he can either kill me or I could do something to prevent anything else from happening and it all happened so quickly that it was just, I switched into defense mode because the way he just lunged and normally I can react in a calm manner but he lunged and scared me, and like if you lunge at an animal or something, he's going to lunge back because you scared him.

ROBERTS: Right. The local police chief had something to say about the way you reacted to it. Let's play that and we'll ask but what he said.


CHIEF CON INGRASSELINO, ELMWOOD PARK POLICE: There was no reason for him to do that but he reacted, and you know, we don't want to criticize somebody but in the future, I would tell him don't do that, just give the money up and live to tell about it.


ROBERTS: So again, he says, you reacted but in hindsight now, are you saying to yourself, my god, I got lucky here, because the guy, if he had a weapon, maybe he would have come after me because of that.

HOFFMAN: Absolutely. Definitely.

ROBERTS: So, would do you it again?

HOFFMAN: Honestly, if the moment ever arose again I couldn't even tell what you would go through my head at that moment. I may consider that what happened last time, the repercussions of everything but once again it could happen so fast that I may not be able to think again and those instincts may kick in again.

CHETRY: So, those were your instincts.


CHETRY: I mean, that's what you did. So, what was the repercussion? What did Dunkin' Donuts say?

HOFFMAN: Shortly thereafter they assumed I knew that if there was a robbery not to talk to the media but I assumed that would be like the news, like video and stuff like that but it was a local newspaper, like in the last section inside all the way at the bottom. So I assumed nobody would ever see this, but.

ROBERTS: I just did a little bit of research on this and found recently a Dunkin' Donuts clerk in Methuen, Massachusetts, exactly the same thing happened. A guy reached over, grabbed the cash from the cash register. He chased him out of the store, jumped in his car. What is it with you guys at Dunkin' Donuts?

HOFFMAN: You know what it is, we love our coffee and we love our job that much.

CHETRY: He even brought some doughnuts and stuff. That was very nice of you, by the way, chocolate glazed.

HOFFMAN: No problem, they are good.

CHETRY: Are you getting some sort of reward or anything from Dunkin' Donuts?

HOFFMAN: I'm not even asking for a reward. I wouldn't do it for the money.

CHETRY: Employee of the month, I mean anything? Can they just acknowledge, you helped them out.

HOFFMAN: Honestly, I kind of just wanted to stop him, have the cops come in, take the video footage and then clean the Coolatta machine, wash up the store so I could go home and go to sleep. Because we've had somebody on vacation for two weeks and I was helping him out in covering for him. I just wanted to go home and go to sleep.

ROBERTS: But did you still have to clean up yourself that night? HOFFMAN: Yes. but I locked the doors because I was like nobody's coming in here, I'm locking the doors because I'm terrified now.

CHETRY: I'm sure you are scared.

HOFFMAN: Afterwards, like the proper instincts kicked in, be safe, make sure you're OK, but you couldn't register all that within a split second. I mean, if you look it lasted about six seconds from the moment he lunged to the moment I hit him and he leaves.


HOFFMAN: So, there's no time to really reasonably react, to sit there and be like - well if I do this, this may occur. If I do this, this will occur. You don't have that kind of time.

CHETRY: Of course.

ROBERTS: Pretty amazing story. Glad you live to tell the tale. Thank you for bringing in the coffee and doughnuts.

HOFFMAN: Absolutely, any time. I hope they made them right but I always get perfect.

CHETRY: So even though he thwarts a would-be robber, you know, he still has to clean the Coolatta machine.

ROBERTS: And make the doughnuts.

HOFFMAN: But I love it, it's my job and it's great.

CHETRY: All right. Thanks for being with us. Great to see you, Dustin. Take care, be safe.

Still ahead, Mike Huckabee on the defense, trying to explain an offensive comment about Mormons.


MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And so as a part of that conversation, I asked the question, because I had heard that, and I ask it not to create something. I never thought it would make a story.


CHETRY: Well, coming up, in an interview you'll only see here, we're going to talk to Mike Huckabee about the political fallout over an interview that he gave to a newspaper, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.


CHETRY: Three minutes past the hour now, and Ali Velshi just choked down a couple of doughnuts. And you need the sugar high because - futures? ALI VELSHI, CNN, BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes. It's going to be a busy day today. Dow futures are down. S&P futures are down right now, possibly pointing to a triple-digit loss on the markets when they opened. You can't win these days. There are a few things going on right now. First of all we've had some bad news from the banks again yesterday. In fact, this whole week we started with Washington Mutual laying off people, closing branches, talking about how they're going to write more money down. UBS with a $10 billion writedown. Then, yesterday we heard from Bank of America, from Wachovia, and from PNC, based in Philadelphia, more banks with writedowns. We're going to hear within the next hour from Lehman Brothers, one of the big investment banks, with its earnings.

We also have inflation numbers coming out today and we are going to see the retail sales numbers for October. How retailers did, sorry, not October, for November. Obviously, we're watching very closely to see how those retail numbers did. So this is going to be another busy day on the market for those of you who have been looking at your portfolios, your retirement money and your 401(k)s, it's been hard to make sense of the markets this week. We've had triple-digit move certainly at the beginning of the day and sometimes at the end of the day and what is it now? It's Thursday today. Thankfully, there's only, you know, today and tomorrow left to go. So we'll keep an eye on that. We are looking for another rough open to market. I would almost tell investors that this is a week that is so unusual because of the fed moves and this major central bank thing. I would almost say that you don't make any investment decisions based on this week. It's just too volatile.

ROBERTS: Well, you'll never know. With this market, it could be down 100 points at the open and finish up 200 points at the end of the day.

VELSHI: Well, I'm going to come back in a few minutes. I'm going to tell you where your investments are for the year so far, to give you some perspective but you're absolutely right. Yesterday morning, we're way up more than 200 at the beginning of the day.

CHETRY: Yes. You had to look twice at the bottom of the screen.

VELSHI: It looked like. I actually honestly thought it was a mistake. I'll keep you posted.

CHETRY: All right. Ali, thanks.

ROBERTS: Harsh criticism from major league baseball and the players' union, another big detail that we're hearing about this morning, about the new Mitchell Report on steroid use in baseball. Well, it's due out this afternoon, up to 80 players past and present will be named. (inaudible) the report will play some of the blame for the high number on the league itself. And that brings us to this morning's quick vote question - who do you think is more to blame for the baseball steroid scandal. Cast your votes at

CHETRY: Yes, right now, 53 per cent are saying the players are doing the drugs and then 47 percent the league for not doing nothing to stop it. I suspect most people think that, you know, that there's culpability on both sides. We're going to continue to update the votes all morning and cover the latest as we find out new details on this new report, due out a little bit today. The next hour of AMERICAN MORNING starts right now.