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American Morning
New Bin Laden Warning; Haitian Government Estimates 150,000 Dead; Dr. Bill Frist Operates in Haiti; Stimulus Money Projects; Charity Funds
Aired January 25, 2010 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Good Monday morning. Thanks very much for joining us on the Most News in the Morning on this January the 25th. I'm John Roberts.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Kiran Chetry. Glad you're with us. Here are the big stories we'll be breaking down for you in the next 15 minutes.
First, a new audio message and a new warning said to be from Osama Bin Laden. In it, the al Qaeda leader tries to take responsibility for the failed Christmas Day airliner bombing and warns of more attacks in the US. We're live at the Pentagon with more on the potential threat.
ROBERTS: That Haitian government officially calling an end to search and rescue operations and focusing its attention on the recovery phase. Yesterday, the death toll from the 7.0 earthquake nearly two weeks ago now at 150,000 and continuing to rise.
In just a moment, we'll go live to Anderson Cooper in Port-au- Prince.
CHETRY: First, though, the president promised to jumpstart the economy in the form of a massive stimulus bill, the biggest stimulus in the history of the United States. All this week, we're breaking down how your tax dollars are being spent, who this money is helping, and who may have abused the program.
This morning, a look at where the first $200 billion went.
And, also, a new warning believed (ph) to be from Osama bin Laden. In an audiotape, he threatens new attacks on U.S. soil and also appears to take credit for the failed attempt to blow up a U.S. airliner on Christmas day.
White House senior adviser, David Axelrod, was asked about the new audio message on CNN "STATE OF THE UNION."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID AXELROD, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR ADVISER: I can't confirm that and nor can we confirm the authenticity of the tape, but assuming that it is him, his message contains the same hollow justification for the mass slaughter of innocents that we've heard before. And the irony is, in the name of Islam, he's killed more Muslims than any -- people from any other religion. He's a murder. And we're going to continue to be on the offense against bin Laden, against al Qaeda to protect the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Barbara Starr is following the latest development. She's live at the Pentagon.
So, Barbara, tell us more about this new threat. Are your sources hearing anything about other plots, something that was threatened in this audiotape?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Kiran, this is always the number one concern. What hidden message might there be in a bin Laden audiotape calling for more attacks. One of the things that he talks about as he has in the past is threats due to U.S. support for Israel on the Palestinian question, suggesting that might lead to more attacks -- nothing really specific.
But officials say is that Christmas Day attack, that failed attack against the Northwest Airlines plane really shows the new al Qaeda that has moved beyond bin Laden. Think of him as al Qaeda's central back hidden in the mountains of Pakistan, perhaps, but al Qaeda in Yemen, which, by all accounts, was behind this attack, and al Qaeda affiliate, an organization inspired by bin Laden is now able to organize, train and equip someone like Farouk Abdulmutallab to carry out an attack to reach out and touch American citizens.
So, it's these affiliate organizations, if you will, that now really are one of the top concerns, who else is out there beyond bin Laden and what might they be planning. In fact, sources say, one of -- military and intelligence sources say, one of the things they're looking into is a growing number of reports that al Qaeda's next move might be to start recruiting female suicide bombers, Kiran.
CHETRY: It's interesting though, when you -- I'm sure the intelligence analysts are trying to figure out the real goal of these audiotapes. I mean, what does it really say about the viability of Osama bin Laden, if he's claiming credit for what authorities say was a failed attempt for a guy who couldn't even detonate, you know, an explosive that was sewn into his underwear?
STARR: Well, you know, that's really the same -- where is bin Laden's clout these days? Is he so isolated, so hidden away that he really doesn't even have operational control, day-to-day communications with his key operatives. Is he someone just sitting back, making audiotapes for recruiting and propaganda purposes? Still incredibly dangerous -- but is he really calling the shots?
There's a lot of questions that he may not be right now -- Kiran.
CHETRY: Very interesting stuff. Barbara Starr for us this morning at the Pentagon -- thanks.
ROBERTS: Just in CNN: three large explosions have rocked downtown Baghdad. The first blast is taking place about half an hour ago in an area with popular hotels and restaurants. It took place near the Palestine Hotel, which -- you're recall during the invasion -- was a place that was popular for news organizations to have their bureaus. And there was this, "Reuters" employees who were killed when an American tank shell hit that building.
There are reports that plumes of smoke can be seen rising from the capital. And you saw a lot of it there. It's still not clear what caused the explosions or whether anybody has been injured in those blasts.
CHETRY: Also developing this morning, search teams now looking for survivors after an Ethiopian airliner crashed into the Mediterranean Sea overnight. The Boeing 737 reportedly went down in flames just minute after taking off from Lebanon. Ninety passengers and crew were onboard. Thirty-four bodies have been recovered so far, and they say the weather was not good during takeoff and the crash is believed to be weather-related.
ROBERTS: Also developing, the death toll is climbing now in the wake of that devastating earthquake in Haiti: 150,000, according to the Haitian government, and that's just in the capital and the surrounding area. And this morning, are moving out of Port-au-Prince. The government is urging the estimated 600,000 people who are homeless to find shelter with friends and family in the countryside.
Our Anderson Cooper is live in the capital city this morning.
And, you know, as we wake up on a Monday morning here, Anderson, what's it looking like there?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, it's not clear how many people in Port-au-Prince are going to be heeding that effort by the government. The government has been saying this now for more than a week, about leaving the capital. They basically are just trying to clear it out as much as possible so they can start, going in to some of these buildings with bulldozers, start taking them down. The process we've already starting to see.
But, you know, a lot of people don't have access to family or friends elsewhere in the country. If they do even have family, maybe that family is poorer than they are. So, the idea of an entire family moving to some other place is not feasible, even getting there is going to be a problem for some people.
So, you still have these public parks, like the one behind me, that are just filled with people. It's -- you know, several hundred people there had made it their home since the earthquake happened. We'll have to see how well this effort to try to get out. There's also talk about building displaced people camps, much more organized camps rather than this kind of makeshift ones that are strung up where they can get medical care, food, all in one centralized location. But again, in that point, they're still just talking about it.
ROBERTS: Anderson, you know, we heard over the weekend, the Haitian government called off the search and rescue operations now, moving to recovery. Where exactly are they starting in these recovery operations?
COOPER: Well, again, the Haitian government calling up search and rescue. I'm not sure how much that filters down to the search and rescue teams.
We talked to one search and rescue team from the United States who said, look, as long as they are here on the ground, they are going to continue searching for people, that's just what they do. So, there is certainly a huge need for recovery. I mean, you can drive by just about any block down -- pass destroyed buildings, and smell there are still people dead inside. We just saw one or two people being pulled out of the wreckage about a half block from where we are right now, and we saw that last night as I was coming back home.
So, it's a -- there's obviously huge recovery need. Search and rescue teams, they look -- there are still hopeful and as long as they are here, they're going to continue doing what they can.
ROBERTS: We talked to the urban search and rescue team from L.A. County earlier on the program and asked them about the personal toll that this is taking on them. And I'm wondering, Anderson, you've been there since the very early hours after the earthquake. Your personal reflections on how this has been?
COOPER: You know, I think all of us who are here feel lucky to be here. We are here because we want to be, and to feel that it's a privilege to have witnessed the bravery that we've seen by search and rescue teams, by the Haitian people who have really been the search and rescue teams for the first several days, and continue to be.
I think, for all of us, this has been a remarkable experience, the one that we, you know, continue to feel important to cover and are just happy to be in position to do it.
ROBERTS: Right. Anderson Cooper for us this morning from Port- au-Prince, good job you've been doing, Anderson.
And Anderson continues his reporting live from Haiti tonight, the aid, the delay and the crisis, tonight on "AC 360" at 10:00 Eastern.
CHETRY: All right. Well, right now, we're going to check with Jacqui Jeras. She's got to look at the forecast for us this morning.
Hey, Jacqui.
JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Hey. Good morning, guys.
Lots of problems out there to start you off today right out of the gate, unfortunately. It's warm but it's wet.
And take a look at our radar. We've got some flood watches across all of the northeast, extending down into the Mid-Atlantic States. Your temperature is holding pretty steady today because we're not going to see any more shine coming up to help warm you up.
We've been dealing with some isolated severe weather across central Florida. We had a tornado warning earlier this morning. Miami-Dade, no touchdowns in that area. And our west coast is dealing with the latest in our series of storms out there. We'll talk more about what you can expect there, and lots of travel problems guys and lots of the big hubs being impacted today.
Back to you.
CHETRY: Jacqui, thanks so much.
All right. Well, still ahead, we're going to talk with Dr. Bill Frist.
He's joined some of the relief efforts in Haiti. He was there. He took some amazing photos. He's going to give us a firsthand account of just how much progress was made.
Nine minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
Aid is finally flowing into earthquake-stricken Haiti. Up to 140 flights a day are able to get in there and bring supplies into the country. But it still is an uphill battle to meet the overwhelming need for food, water, shelter and, of course, medicine.
ROBERTS: Former Senate Majority Leader, Dr. Bill Frist is just back from Haiti where he performed life-saving surgery on earthquake survivors. He was down there with the charity Samaritan's First. He joins us now.
Good morning to you.
DR. BILL FRIST (R), FORMER SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: Good morning (ph), John.
ROBERTS: We had you on via remote from Haiti.
FRIST: Yes.
ROBERTS: You were talking about, you know, the extreme lack of supplies. That you were there in the hospital, you had a girl whose arm was broken in several places. You need some surgery on it, you tried to stabilize it, but you didn't have the screws...
FRIST: Yes.
ROBERTS: ... and the plates you needed. How is the situation now?
FRIST: You know, when we went in and we did -- we did a conversation about a week ago. Now, it's two weeks, we had no pins, we had no crutches, we had no casting materials, we had no antibiotics. And most of these injuries are devastating issues, crush injuries. (INAUDIBLE) are terrible, but these crush injuries require surgical repair, otherwise you get infection, you have a lot of morbidity and ultimately end up dying.
Now, when I came out two days ago, supplies are coming. There are still a lot of crowding downtown, there are five main hospitals. All of them are overloaded today, but you have pins. You actually have the supplies, the antibiotics are coming in. So, we're in much, much better shape.
This sort of surgery does come in waves, though.
ROBERTS: Oh, sure.
FRIST: And even some of the amputations that were done earlier on, people are coming back in from infections because we had no antibiotics early on. So, it's going to take a continual, sustained supply effort over the next couple of days.
CHETRY: And so, give us a sense of how you think that's shaping up now as we head into week two. We saw Sanjay Gupta show a chart of sorts, where they're trying to organize some of these...
(CROSSTALK)
FRIST: Exactly. Yes.
CHETRY: In some cases, they found that there were more doctors needed in some places.
FRIST: Yes.
CHETRY: How is that coordination happen?
FRIST: Well, little things are happening now, because before, you'd say, when we came down there, we had 250 patients, and there was trauma, there was this crush, there was bleeding, it was -- it was very difficult. Now, because we got a lot of good nurses down there, good trauma triage type people, there's a lot more order to it. Supplies are coming in. It's going to be required for a long period of time.
Now, we're shifting into this overall second phase where we have to worry about clean water. And one of the problems with Haiti is there is very little clean water. The sort of food, the sort of shelter issues are all becoming real. And exactly why things like infection that can occur.
Groups like Samaritan's First, though, did a great job and one of the first things they sent in, at the same time us as surgeon was water supplies -- a water supply system about four times as big as the chair that can clean 10,000 gallons of water a day. And people don't realize something as basic as water...
CHETRY: Right.
FRIST: ... is just simply not in Haiti normally. So, that sort of infrastructure coming in consistently.
The earlier picture there with Sanjay is exactly right. I would not -- if you are doctor, don't just rush down there at this point.
CHETRY: Right.
FRIST: Be part of an established group that is on the ground. We don't need a lot of neurosurgeons there, still need orthopedic surgeons. And then, one of the -- one of the heads of Operation Giving Back from American College of Surgeons just went in yesterday to do a surgical assessment. So, Operation Giving Back on the Web site of the American College of Surgeons is a place that people can go if you're a doctor and you want to volunteer.
ROBERTS: Right. And, again, you are trying to get doctors to some of those outlying areas as well, places like Jacmel, which were hard-hit and virtually no medical...
(CROSSTALK)
FRIST: Very important. It's very important.
ROBERTS: We have been watching, as you've been talking, some of the photographs that you took, maybe you also have up on your Web site, this one particular story that I was intrigued about. A 16- year-old girl who was trapped in the rubble of the school...
FRIST: Yes.
ROBERTS: ... was pulled out when you were down there.
FRIST: Well, I think that's the picture that you saw, (INAUDIBLE).
If you look at the picture...
ROBERTS: Maybe we can lose there what's on the bottom of the screen.
(CROSSTALK)
FRIST: The story is a 16-year-old girl, and thank goodness this happened at 4:30 in the afternoon and people were in school. But she was a schoolgirl at school.
Her dad is standing there with the blue book -- that happens to be a Bible, by the way -- basically got the call, heard the earthquake, he felt the earthquake, went to the school -- eight hours later, found her, calling out her voice. The problem: she was under eight feet of concrete.
ROBERTS: Wow.
FRIST: There's not -- there's no way you can move eight feet of concrete. It took him two and half days with a pick, and the son, who is actually in the picture, chipping away. They got her out. We had to do emergency fasciotomies on her arm, and her leg. She might lose sensation on her leg. But it's a fantastic story. She heard her dad's voice. She said dad, I hear you, I hear you, and two and a half days to get out. And the son who is also in that picture helped as well.
On rounds that morning, the father there had the blue book, and it's in Creole, but he was pointing to a bible verse again and again and again, and basically, to show how thankful he is that that shepherd's voice was heard in the middle of the night.
CHETRY: It really is amazing.
FRIST: Those were the stories, and the hopeful stories, are there. It's important for people to see that.
CHETRY: You are right. It really is because we saw so much devastation. And to know that there is the spirit that cannot be kept down. Long term as you take a look at Haiti, we know that there are so many challenges. Once people who have had these surgeries, they are going to need prosthetics. There are so many other things that are going on with Haiti. What do you think the biggest challenge that lies ahead after we are able to sort of triage the injuries. What is next?
FRIST: Well, first of all, to keep the attention of the world on Haiti. It has a great historical tradition of churches sending mission groups down, very important. But at this point we need a lot of strategic planning, things like water, sewage system, sanitation system, roads, you cannot get around today, how you get petrol, how you get fuel down there, so it is going to take a lot of long-term strategic planning.
From a medical standpoint, it is going to be very important to have a continual flow of physicians from the outside working alongside the Haitians who are actually there. The prosthetics you mentioned, all the amputations that have been performed, they are going to need prosthetics to make these individuals productive and allow them that opportunity once again.
And so there are some great groups right now, working just on prosthetics. And then after the prosthetics, it's the psychological rehabilitation. Everybody I saw. Everybody in those pictures that you saw lost a brother, a sister, a mother, a father, nobody was unaffected. And that's one of the differences here where you have this sort of segmentation where people being pulled out. Families destroyed, huge psychological adjustment as well. And that is why I mentioned the Bible in that picture, whether it's faith, whether it is family support, and whether it's spiritual support, a huge part of the overall wellness and well-being of the country.
ROBERTS: Great work that you did down there as well. I guess, the early days of trauma surgery were not so --
FRIST: The nurses that we took down were the really kind of the heroes. Sanjay mentioned that, who can really triage and get people to the right places. It was fascinating, the outreach of Americans is pretty impressive.
ROBERTS: Great to see you. Welcome back. Thanks for joining us this morning. The stimulus plan. How much has been spent? Where is it being spent. Christine Romans tracking your stimulus money this morning. She is "Minding Your Business". 18 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
Welcome back to "AMERICAN MORNING". Right now, it is 20 minutes after the hour. The reason we are all standing here in front of this big wall with Christine, is because we need a big wall to explain a little bit about where the stimulus money went. "Minding Your Business" this morning.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: This is your money. This is your money that is going out the door. And it's more than just the $787 billion that we keep talking about. I wanted to give you the big, the big view from 35,000 feet. This is $4.7 trillion dollars, the big bang, the total stimulus. Look over here, this is Stealth Stimulus. This is the financial industry bailouts. You can look right there, and you can see 418 for all these different banks. TARP, you remember TARP we love that, right?
CHETRY: We talked a lot about TARP. And it's interesting that it is a small, little, small little blip in this huge amount of spending. Now Kiran, hit the full view button right there. Come back and you can see how this all works together.
And there is Stimulus 1. This is what we were talking about mostly this week, $787 billion dollars. This is teachers who still have their jobs, and really to personalize this for you, this is social security recipients who got more money in their checks, and people on unemployment who got more money in their checks. That's helping the vulnerable.
A lot of these things here, look at how many different programs there are. Housing, there are $13 billion for housing. This is all from cnnmoney.com. It's amazing, some of the things here. $57 billion for unemployment insurance. That is...
CHETRY: Was that extending COBRA and other benefits?
ROMANS: That, and there are other programs for that too. Sorry, I am just not the pro with this. Okay. $25 billion for COBRA, that is right. All of these. I wanted to point out one more thing. Pull it back, Kiran, for me. Highways and transportation you can see is one small part of that. You are going to be seeing a lot this week about bridges, roads, a lot of that work that is being done. That's a very small part of the overall $787 billion dollar stimulus. Those shovel-ready projects we keep talking about, the construction job. Look at the size of those balls here around the $787. You can see tax relief.
The single largest place where your money has gone out. People -- millions and millions of Americans have felt this already in their paycheck, even as we are talking about how the popularity of the program seems to be declining. A lot of these money, you probably felt. You had it in your own checks, in your unemployment checks and other things. But still this stimulus, and all of the money that is right here that shows you how it works, still are facing a popularity problem. We will talk about that all this week. ROBERTS: And as we said before on your last appearance here, still a whole lot of money left to be spent, right?
ROMANS: Yes, $522 billion dollars still left to be spent. And that's, it was designed that way to be time released so that they could have a bigger impact on the economy.
ROBERTS: I love your big bang theory.
ROMANS: I love it, too. All from CNNMoney. I cannot take credit for it. CNNMoney is great stuff.
ROBERTS: Thanks, Christine.
You can track the money yourself by the way, where did it go, who is it helping and who has abused the program, check out cnn.com/stimulus. Tomorrow, on AMERICAN MORNING, we are going to show you some of the good news of the stimulus money. One family has food on their table because of it.
CHETRY: That is right. And also a little later tonight on "CAMPBELL BROWN," 8:00 p.m. Eastern, find out why some residents of Montana specifically say that their state has made a double fault with their tax dollars.
ROBERTS: And then at 10PM Eastern "AC 360" investigates why the stimulus money is going into so many companies that have a history of breaking the law. The stimulus project, all this week starting right here on the Most News in the Morning every day at 6:00 AM Eastern.
CHETRY: Meanwhile, Christine coming back in just a moment, joined by two other members of our money team. We are going to talk about whether or not the stimulus is working, where and how moving forward will the government start to either add or take away some of this money.
ROBERTS: And a CNN exclusive. An all-access pass into American astronaut Cady Coleman's upcoming journey into space. Stay with us. Twenty-four minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Twenty-six minutes after the hour. That means it's time for an A.M. Original, something that you will see only on AMERICAN MORNING. The Friday night star-studded hope for Haiti telethon raised a record breaking $58 million dollars according to the organizers. And more money is still coming in, that does not even include the hope for Haiti Now album, a compilation of the night's music. It was number one on iTunes in 18 countries on Saturday.
CHETRY: Also, many times it is hard to find out whether the money that you give is actually going to the right place or anywhere at all. In fact, how much of it is going right to the charity. Some of the most reputable charities still have come under fire in times after Hurricane Katrina and also during this disaster. ROBERTS: And many times, raising money is big business itself. Our Stephanie Elam now looking into the way that some charities do business, and why some do run into trouble.
Good morning, Steph.
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. And you know, you look at the devastation that we have seen in Haiti, and it really makes people wonder what happens when I donate? And sure we would all like to see 100 percent of our donation go to the charity of our chosen cause, but is that a realistic goal? We decided to dig into the numbers to find out.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELAM (voice-over): Charities exist to help those in need, but sometimes questions arise about how much of the donated money goes into overhead, the cost of running a business.
I want to avoid overhead, they are expenses.
I have been a little skeptical just reading about what some of the organizations are doing with the money.
ELAM: Independent charity evaluator givewell.net says overhead is a necessary thing.
HOLDEN KARNOFSKY, CO-FOUNDER GIVEWELL.NET: People should not be looking for 0 percent overhead. There is this mentality of saying I want all my money going straight to the children. And as a result, a lot of the charities may not be spending the money they need to spend, to figure out how their programs are going and to evaluate their work.
ELAM: Richard Walden who founded International Disaster Relief Agency, Operation U.S.A., agrees -- to a point.
RICHARD WALDEN, PRESIDENT, OPERATIONS USA.ORG: They need some overhead or they would never raise any money. When it starts getting over 15 percent you start to worry.
ELAM: Charity navigator.org, another group that evaluates charities finds of the 5500 organizations it examines, about 15 percent of donations go to overhead costs. However, Givewell says tracking how a charity spends its money is not the easiest thing to figure out.
Finding out if a charity helps kids get better at school or saves lives is very hard work. And that's why, for a long time, people have focused on this overhead number. It's not because it's the most meaningful number, but it's the easiest to get.
ELAM: And when it comes to size, Walden says smaller charities are often more nimble, able to respond quicker than larger ones.
This whole notion that only the big agencies can do a meaningful job is simply not true and it's never been proven. ELAM: So when choosing a charity, perhaps asking about overhead should not be the primary question.
Ask the much more important question. What did you accomplish? Whom did you help? How did you change the world? How much did it cost? Because when you know the answer to that question, it doesn't really matter how much they spent on overhead.
ELAM: In the end, after all, it should be about helping those in need.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ELAM: Now, if a charity does say it gives 100 percent of your donations to help the cause, the better business bureau says think twice about donating to that charity. All charities have operating costs. That is just the deal. The only way you can guarantee all of your money goes to help someone is would be if you were to physically able to march to the disaster area with your crisp dollar bills in your hand and give them out. Of course, that is not feasible, nor is it better than using a charity that has established action plans to get where it needs to get to and quickly.
And if you are looking for ways to impact your world, you can always head to cnn.com/impact. And we have more information on charities there. But the idea, charities need money throughout the year, not just during disaster time so they are ready to react. And that money that you are donating, helps them to do that. And that is not a bad thing.
ROBERTS: Definitely, though some are more efficient than others.
ELAM: Definitely. Some are more efficient. And as you heard Richard Walden say, if it's over 15 percent then a lot of people say it's sketchy going to overhead. It really should be underneath that number.
ROBERTS: All right.
CHETRY: Right now it is 30 minutes past the hour, and that means it's time for a check of our top stories.
And developing right now in Iraq, three coordinated explosions ripping through Baghdad, this news coming to us in last half hour. The first blast happened near the Palestine hotel, which is where some news organizations have offices. Plumes of smoke can be seen rising from the capital. Police are saying that 12 people were killed in these attacks.
ROBERTS: American intelligence officials are analyzing a new audiotape said to be from Osama bin Laden. In the message bin Laden claims responsibility for in the attempted bombing of an airliner over Detroit on Christmas day and warns of more attacks on American soil.
CHETRY: Also, big news that could impact the balance of power in Washington. Another Democrat, Arkansas Congressman Marion Barry is expected to announce his retirement this morning. Now, some political analysts say it could be the first in a flood of retirements after the special election loss in Massachusetts last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: He is the 12th Democrat now in the 2010 election cycle who has decided they are going to pack it in and does not want to run for reelection.
I should say that on the other side of the aisle, Republicans have 14 retirements. And when you talk to Democrats, they say we are not the only ones losing members. But still a major blow for Democrats right now who are really trying to head off any kind of rush for the door from any of these conservative Democrats who are looking to get out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Barry, a conservative blue dog Democrat, is serving his second term in the House.
Well, it's 31 minutes past the hour right now, and it's stimulus week on CNN here. We are talking every hour and taking a look at how your tax dollars are being spent. Who is getting help from the money? Who may have abused the program?
There is a new CNN poll out showing that most Americans now oppose the stimulus. And as President Obama starts his second year in office, unemployment is still in double digits.
So how is this all working? Joining us to talk about it is Christa Freeland, U.S. managing editor for the Financial Times. We are also joined by economist and economic analyst Lakshman Achuthan, and our own Christine Romans. Thanks to all of you for being with us.
Let's talk in general, and feel free to jump in, but I'm going to ask you first, Christa, we'll start with the White House figure, saying that 2 million jobs were saved or created. And Christina pointed out before how difficult it is to chart that and prove it. but what is your take on how accurate that 2 million were save or created by the stimulus is?
CHRISTA FREELAND, MANAGING EDITOR, "FINANCIAL TIMES": First of all, I think it will always be possible to find little examples where the White House counting did not work. It was a huge amount of stimulus money and that is a lot of jobs. So it's not going to be totally accurate.
And the saved aspect of it is the hardest to track. How do you tell if a job would have been lost without the money? But I think that roughly speaking it's right, and I think that overall the stimulus was a really great thing simply because if you look back to where we were last year, the whole world felt like it was potentially poised on the brink of a second great depression.
Things are not terrific today, but employment is rising, this is not the 1930s, and the stimulus is part of the reason that's not the case.
ROMANS: And that's the popularity problem the stimulus has right now because it's hard to see something that would have happened and it's hard for people to feel that.
For example, you might not realize in your classroom you would have lost a teacher, a counselor, or music teacher, and special education aide, and maybe the gym teacher, and you would not have pee wee football anymore.
CHETRY: So that's where you can show things are saved. But Lakshman, we talked about 6.7 million jobs lost since the recession. You're saying 2 million, and that is still a net loss of 4.5 million jobs.
LAKSHMAN ACHUTHAN, ECONOMIC ANALYST: First off, the reason you're struggling with the 2 million save or created is because it's hard to prove a counterfactual. I we did not do that, what would have happened? Who knows, right?
FREELAND: And the knock on effect are really hard to prove, too. If the schoolteacher doesn't lose their job, and then what are all the other jobs that aren't lost because...
ACHUTHAN: Yes, I would take your side and say cash for clunkers was more than a few billion dollars to save a few cars because it kept some industries from collapsing and therefore that's a great thing.
However we have improvement in employment that has been going on, and we have jobs that have not been lost that can you point to. We will have job growth shortly. And to say all of that is because of the stimulus is way too simplistic. There's a business cycle which is much bigger than this which has turned and gone to the upside.
And how to separate what the stimulus has done and what the business cycle on its own doing is going to very difficult.
ROMANS: They made this promise that if we don't have this stimulus we're going to have eight percent unemployment, and oops, and now we have 10 percent unemployment. When you hang something so big on this idea of creating jobs, then you're opening yourself up to everybody nitpicking about every single little job. So it's a political story, too.
ACHUTHAN: Absolutely
FREELAND: And I think that eight percent number was a real mistake, but I think even more than that, a lot of people are unemployed, many, many more than in 2006. And no matter what you say about the stimulus, that feels bad to people. And at the same time, people are worried about spending government money.
ROMANS: And how much are people linking that bad news in their mind, meaning the stimulus, did we spend too much on bailing out the big banks, who are arguably are not lending as much as perhaps they should be, and is that contributing to unemployment. There seems to be a real anger around the government programs right now.
ACHUTHAN: The things is, short of the government creating a job, putting a stimulus out does not necessarily give you a job. A job will be created when you as a business person are forced to hire somebody because of demand beating down your door. You are not going to hire somebody because you are more profitable, and that is the problem here.
And we are seeing demand pop. You are going to see GDP growth go maybe to five percent in the fourth quarter. And that's why you're seeing the jobs markets firm. However, it may not be enough, and I don't think it will be enough to cure the pain and the job looses.
FREELAND: I think fairness is really a big part of the political reaction that's happening now. I think that's why we saw the president come out strongly against Wall Street last week and really spoiling for a fight.
I do think there is an inchoate sense that people have that, I don't have a job, and the government spent a lot of money, and bankers are paying themselves huge bonuses, and somehow it does not compute.
CHETRY: And that's spilling over in terms of when we take a look at these numbers -- 56 percent of Americans according to our latest CNN opinion research poll show that they oppose the stimulus. Is part of that anger spilling over and not seeing results that perhaps we would have been more patient for in a different circumstance?
ROMANS: Because also they see a few programs in their neighborhood that they think look ridiculous. There are -- the very beginning of all this, the person who's overseeing the waste of all this, he said we could see seven percent waste, and that's $55 billion in waste, and American people have no tolerance on spending their money on wasteful projects.
Also, the unemployment rate is much higher today than what it was when we passed the whole thing, and that's something that -- we are spending all of this money...
CHETRY: There is another point here that I'm really interested in what you guys think about this. There are some people like Joe Stiglitz who say it wasn't enough money in the first place, that we were making assumptions about $787 billion when we thought the unemployment rate could go to eight percent, and it went to 10 percent.
ACHUTHAN: I don't think you can use stimulus to steer the business cycle at all.
CHETRY: And not only that, you can't look just look at that in a vacuum, the $787 billion. You showed us on the chart that $4.7 trillion in one way, shape, or form poured into this economy by the government.
ACHUTHAN: That was a big deal. FREELAND: But I think Christine is right that actually the irony of all of this is the economic argument probably is that the stimulus was not enough. If economists could rerun history...
ACHUTHAN: No, I would disagree on that.
FREELAND: I think if Barack Obama and Larry Summers could be back in January of 2009, they were not facing any political constraints, and I think they would have gone 50 percent more.
ACHUTHAN: Bush, remember, $150 billion in the beginning of 2008, bipartisan support. It sank like a stone because the business cycle was going the other way. The stimulus cannot overwhelm the business cycle at all.
(CROSSTALK)
ACHUTHAN: You have the fed write a blank check, trillions of dollars to keep us out of the abyss after the collapse of Lehman -- very, very, very big deal.
Then you have the business itself begin to turn at the beginning of '09 and the stimulus package come on top of that, luckily timed, because it helped out the states and it helped out infrastructure spending at a time when employment, which lags the business cycle, was going to get much, much worse.
FREELAND: Maybe still not enough, though. People that don't have jobs, if you look at the collapse that is happening, a little more...
(CROSSTALK)
ACHUTHAN: That's the problem. Let's be careful. The reason we go into the stimulus and to the fed writing a blank check is because we were lost and staring into the abyss. Everybody was freaked out and they did not know what to do. That's the reason this occurred.
The minute we did that we shifted away from a free market economy to a managed economy, and that's very, very difficult to do. And to say you get a job and you get a job, and that's...
(CROSSTALK)
FREELAND: I totally agree. But you could have the stimulus devoted, for example, how you want it to go.
(CROSSTALK)
CHETRY: I'm going to make you two blog your points of view, because it's very interesting, and there is a lot -- if it was so easy, right, we would all have it figured out. We will put it on CNN.com/amfix. But we're out of time. Thank you for talking to us this morning.
ACHUTHAN: Thank you CHETRY: We enjoyed having you, absolutely, some of the greatest minds in the economic situation here with us today talking stimulus. Thanks to all of you, Lakshman, Christine, and Christa.
Meantime, track the money yourself. Where did it go, who it's helping and who has abused the program? Go to CNN.com/stimulus.
Coming up tomorrow on AMERICAN MORNING by the way, we will show you some of the good news from the stimulus money. One family saying they have food on their table because of it.
Also later, 8:00 p.m. on Campbell Brown tonight, find out why some residents of Montana are not happy with what they think their state has been doing with their tax dollars.
At 10:00 p.m. "AC 360" investigates why the stimulus is going to so many countries that have a history of breaking the law. The stimulus project all this week starting right here at 6:00 a.m. on AMERICAN MORNING -- John
ROBERTS: Coming right up, a CNN exclusive, an all access pass into American astronaut Cady Coleman's upcoming journey to space. John Zarrella has the latest update for us. It's 41 minutes after the hour.
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ROBERTS: Coming on 44 minutes after the hour. We're back with the Most News in the Morning.
A CNN exclusive now as American astronaut Cady Coleman gets ready for her journey into space. You've seen some of her grueling training for her mission to the International Space Station which will be coming up in December, and today we get an inside look at this part super mom part astronauts role model status at work.
John Zarrella following Cady's yearlong journey, and he's live in Miami with the latest installment.
Good morning, John.
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.
I kid Cady about being a type a personality. She just landed in Japan this morning, and before that she was at a speaking engagement in California, and before that she was busy training in Houston. And that's all within the last week.
When she is not training, she is still busy giving back.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZARRELLA (voice-over): Flying twice on space shuttle missions...
CADY COLEMAN, NASA ASTRONAUT: Some plans that we've had onboard here, we kind of -- we are going to test them two different ways. ZARRELLA: Training for a six-month stay on the International Space Station.
It's not lost on astronaut Cady Coleman that good fortune had smiled nicely upon her.
COLEMAN: It's probably seems terrible to -- and there are so many people who would like to go to space. And to think -- but I want to go again.
ZARRELLA: There is perhaps just a touch of guilt in her voice, it's quickly engulfed by a wave of passion that transcends the flying, a desire to give back, to make time to share the experience.
JOSH SIMPSON, COLEMAN'S HUSBAND: It's amazing how she's able to explain complicated stuff to people in a way that they can understand. But it's not just kids, it's also, it's also college people and adults.
ZARRELLA: A little weight less levity never hurts like, eating gummy bears in space. Purely for science and if you believe that...
COLEMAN: Who was going to be the best? The gummy bear, the gummy worm, the gummy fish, the gummy dinosaurs? I did not know and so we brought them all, we had auditions and the bears were the best.
ZARRELLA: Sandwiched between training in Russia and Houston, a lecture at her alma mater, the University of Massachusetts. Autograph signing, an interview with a local reporter and demonstrating what doesn't work in weightlessness.
COLEMAN: And so swimming doesn't really help and moving your legs doesn't really help very much either.
ZARRELLA: Somersaults are cake, the U Mass visit came at the end of a day when Cady had already spent time at her son Jamey's elementary school.
COLEMAN: Here is two robotic arms because sometimes we have things we wanted to pass from robotic arm to robotic arm.
ZARRELLA: So you were paying attention, right?
JAMEY SIMPSON, CADY COLEMAN'S SON: Yes.
ZARRELLA: So when she asked, when she told you how many robotic arms are on the space station, do you know?
J. SIMPSON: Yes, two.
ZARRELLA: Coleman like many of NASA's women astronauts believes their visibility can be an inspiration. In particular two young girls, like one in Jamey's class. She drew a picture of a girl astronaut with a pink rocket ship.
COLEMAN: There are still a lot of mixed messages that girls growing up get in that not all of them who are six and seven years old even think that they might be able to do this or that whatever their dream job is that they could choose and do.
ZARRELLA: Cady's experience was similar, never thinking becoming an astronaut was possible until after attending a talk by America's first woman in space, Sally Ride.
COLEMAN: To me it was a very pivotal moment where I just thought I want that job.
ZARRELLA: And she got it.
COLEMAN: Forces the heavier objects to go to the outside...
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZARRELLA: Now, in that class that morning that she was talking to her son Jamey's class, Jamey's question to her was, "hey mom," when he raise his hand, "When are you going to retire?" And her answer was probably after this six months that she spends on the space station coming up next starting next December.
But she didn't give a definitive for sure after that -- John.
ROBERTS: Such an inspiration to the young folks, too -- John.
CHETRY: Yes.
ROBERTS: You know, I mean, did you want to be an astronaut when you were a little kid?
ZARRELLA: Yes, absolutely. And you know, the thing that she says when she was a little girl growing up, that was not something that women would typically think about.
ROBERTS: Yes.
ZARRELLA: So she really is trying, as the other women astronauts are, to change that mindset about astronomy, math, sciences, particularly for young girls -- John.
ROBERTS: Yes and so many kids want to be an astronaut, I know I did, but I became a bit of a space cadet, but not an astronaut. John Zarrella this morning, John thanks so much.
If you'd like to see more of Cady's photos and even read how she's preparing for her son Jamey for her long stay in space you can follow along on her blog on her web page. Just go to CNN.com/AMFix -- Kiran.
KIRAN: All right still ahead, the East Coast storm bringing heavy rains and severe thunderstorms and some unseasonably warm temperatures. Our Jacqui Jeras is going to be getting a look at the extreme weather across the country in just a moment.
It's 48 minutes pass the hour. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: There you go a lot of people celebrating this morning because their teams made it. You know, in New Orleans and Indianapolis.
ROBERTS: And there are some people are crying.
CHETRY: And there is a lot of people crying and of course Jacqui is one of them, she's a Minnesota Vikings fan. But hey, there's always next year Jacqui.
JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: There is.
CHETRY: Sorry about that.
JERAS: But only that Favre, I know. I wonder what's going to happen with Favre. It was a one-year contract, it would be interesting.
Lousy weather in Minneapolis, great weather in New Orleans, go figure today. But it's really the coasts of the country that are getting to hit the hardest with two separate storms. The East Coast had some severe weather early this morning. But it's mostly going to be a heavy rain event.
And temperatures really warm here, meaning that we're going to have some snow-melt going on as well, so concerned about flooding. If you're trying to travel today, what a mess, look at that ground stop; LaGuardia, Philadelphia, Teterboro, that means if you're elsewhere in the country, you can't take off to get there.
Delays already kicking off this early out west in San Francisco, rains has been coming down hard here. Take a look at some of these pictures out of the Sierras from yesterday. From this latest storm, you already have over 100 inches of snow in some areas of the Sierras.
Today we could get another one to two with that storm; the good news this one not nearly as bad as what we dealt with last week.
So in the middle of the country, that's where things are looking good today, guys. Back to you.
ROBERTS: All right. I want to be in the middle of the country. Jacqui thanks so much.
Now, the aftermath of the Haiti earthquake, we heard for so long that there just wasn't enough medical aid. Well now, there are too many doctors in some areas and not enough in others. Where are the biggest needs? Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta takes us inside General Hospital for an assessment.
It's coming up on 8 minutes now to the top of the hour.
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ROBERTS: We are back with The Most News in the Morning.
There is a whole new problem emerging right now in Haiti. So many doctors are now answering the call for medical aid that there are actually too many in some areas but not enough in others. And the lack of coordination may be costing lives.
Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta had an up close look at the effort to get help to where the sick people are.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: We are in a lobby here at General Hospital, and one of the things you notice right away, I noticed, is that things are definitely better here than they were even just a couple days ago. Lots of different equipment here, gloves, they did not even have gloves to perform some of these operations here just a couple of days ago; all kinds of suture.
One thing that's worth pointing out though, even in the midst of all this, they still have instruments like this. That's a Black and Decker drill; that's what they have use to be able to perform these operations to actually put the pins in the legs. So it's by no means perfect.
But if you look around here, take a look at all the operations that are going on, this is better than it was three days ago.
But here is something that I did not expect. I actually think there are too many doctors; doctors stepping over one another, lack of organization. People watching what is happening and come flooding down into an area like this.
We are about to go into this meeting where they are actually getting all the chiefs from various departments together, trying to coordinate this so they can try to be as efficient as possible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think all the groups are well staffed. The issue is (INAUDIBLE) staff are not repeating or overlapping...
GUPTA: That means some of the doctors may be sent to other hospitals, where they are short of surgeons.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's in the area where we think all the sick patients are, and then have a way to go through -- sweep the campus once a day in order to (INAUDIBLE) who are sick.
GUPTA: Have you ever been curious how they set up an operating theater, a whole system in the middle of the earthquake? You are looking at it over here. Literally writing on the wall, here is OR 1, here's OR 2, here's a triage area. They've got post op areas over here and here. Pre-op areas over here.
They actually separated this by the Haitian doctors, the natives, and the doctors in the operating room, Mt. Sinai over here and a Swiss operating room over here. That's how it works; lots of maps, lots of coordination going on.
One thing that I want to point out and I think this is really important. We are still talking about Port-au-Prince, which is over here. We now know that so much -- there has been a lot of impact in the other areas as well, such Leogane. And the plan now is to start taking some of those medical capabilities and moving them to some of the outlying areas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA: There are a lot of things that are necessary John. I don't want to leave people under the impression everything's fine. They're still going to need primary care doctors. They're still going to need nurses who are the real work forces of hospital both acute and chronic care nursing.
Rehabilitation, we have been talking so much about this crush injuries; patients need rehab longer term, and also prosthetics. If you don't have a leg, and you don't have a way to get around here in Port-au-Prince, it's very, very difficult.
So these are some of the challenges going forward. That's just a little glimpse of one of the hospitals in terms of struggling with manpower issues and organization.
ROBERTS: Sanjay, we had heard from so many doctors in the early going in the aftermath of the earthquake, they wanted to get down there. They wanted to pitch in. They couldn't find a ride down there. They certainly could not get into the country.
There are still a lot of people, I'm sure, out there who would like to get down and help but they can't, what would you suggest that they do?
GUPTA: There is a couple things. First of all, it is tough to get into the country now because you have the airstrip at Port-au- Prince, which is very, very busy; lots of different planes coming in from all sorts of different organizations. The best bet is to link up with an existing organization that has some sort of infrastructure on the ground. It's going to be hard for anybody to just sort of come on their own and try and establish something here.
The other thing I think that is very important is that there's a lot of interest right now, and in a couple weeks after the earthquake, but the need John, as you know, is going to be a strong need in the months and weeks certainly going forward. So if you can't get in now and you can spend some time a few weeks from now, the need's going to be probably just as great -- John.
ROBERTS: All right. Sanjay Gupta for us this morning. Doc, great to see you; thanks for joining us.
Three minutes now to the top of the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to The Most News in the Morning. Usually we bring you Jeanne Moos right now, but due to breaking news we're unable to bring that to you. But we'll get it to you tomorrow. And we also want to hear from you on some of the fascinating stories that we brought you today. So if you'd like to continue the conversation, head to our blog, cnn.com/amFix.
Meanwhile, that's going to do it for us on this Monday. We'll see you back here tomorrow.
ROBERTS: The news continues on CNN in the "CNN NEWSROOM". And here is Kyra Phillips -- hey Kyra.
