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American Morning

Oil Contaminating Some Florida Beaches; BP Replaces Tony Hayward As CEO; Interview with Incoming BP CEO Bob Dudley; Oscar's Story: ASU Grad Admits Status, Returns to Mexico; America as "Pornland"; Warren Jeffs' Conviction Overturned; The View From Mexico

Aired July 28, 2010 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to AMERICAN MORNING on this Wednesday, July 28th. Glad you're with us this morning. I'm Kiran Chetry.

JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. I'm John Roberts. Thanks so much for joining us. A lot to talk about. Let's get right to it.

A potential turning point in the struggle to save the Gulf of Mexico. 100 days now into this unprecedented disaster, a Coast Guard official says the oil spill is in its final life cycle. Rob Marciano reports it's the damage that we can't see that could be with us for some time to come.

CHETRY: Arizona officials may find out today whether a federal judge will block their controversial new immigration law. Police are getting ready to start enforcement tomorrow. We're going to take a look at how it's being received in Arizona and also across the border where some Mexicans think that this law will end up teaching the U.S. a lesson.

ROBERTS: State of emergency. Evacuation orders out in Southern California as a fast-moving wildfire reduces homes to smoldering ashes. Right now, at least 1,000 firefighters are trying desperately to knock down the wall of flames.

CHETRY: The nation's largest oil spill now in day 100. But a turning point for crews, the oil slick is breaking up. With BP's ruptured well capped for 12 days now, they can't even find enough crude to skim off the surface. This animation shows the downsizing of the slick from its all-time high back in May to its smaller, scattered form now.

ROBERTS: But the devastation, of course, across the Gulf of Mexico and all the beaches is still enormous -- 600 miles of gulf coast shoreline stained, $22 billion in potential revenue lost, More than 26,000 helpless animals rescued in the face of an oily death.

But according to a Coast Guard official, the worst may not be behind us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REAR ADM. PAUL ZUKUNFT, FEDERAL ON-SCENE COORDINATOR: I had over 800 skimmers out yesterday and across the entire region. They've only recovered one barrel of recoverable oil. So the oil really is in its final life cycle, if you will. It is starting to break down quite rapidly, where it will pose each day less and less of a threat to the environment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: Not a whole lot of the surface, but sometimes it's the enemy that you can't see that poses the most serious threat, and that's why it could take years before we know the full extent of the damage that's been done to the Gulf of Mexico.

CHETRY: Rob Marciano is live for us in Ft. Pickens, Florida, this morning. And Rob, you are finding out that the thick, black crude oil that we see is one thing, but also there is oil that perhaps doesn't leave an obvious stain, yet it is still there.

ROB MARCIANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. You know, the EPA and local communities, they'll test the air. They'll test the water. They'll even test the sediment, the ground underneath the water, for oil contamination.

But there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of testing of the sandy beaches. Here along the Florida coastline they are white and pristine, but they have, in many cases, been stained. What we discovered is that what you see, there is a lot more than meets the eye.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMES "RIP" KIRBY, COASTAL GEOLOGIST: You can see the sand looks pretty clean to the naked eye.

MARCIANO: But after sunset, things look different.

MARCIANO (on camera): Lights up pretty good.

KIRBY: It does. And as you see, it is pretty much anywhere and everywhere.

MARCIANO (voice-over): Coastal geologist Rick Kirby can see the oil at night using an ultraviolet flashlight. Oil particles glow on the sand and in the water.

KIRBY: It leaves a little line of oily sand right there at the end of the wave run-up. When this dries, in the morning, the wind will pick it up and it will move it.

MARCIANO: Across the beach and everything that lives there.

MARCIANO (on camera): So in is a ghost crab hole.

KIRBY: Right.

MARCIANO: And particles of orange oil has ended up all the way down this crab's hole just because he was digging his home?

KIRBY: Right.

MARCIANO: So now his home has oil.

MARCIANO (voice-over): Even at over 100 feet from the water, Rick thinks there might be a lower layer of oil, so we dig a little deeper.

MARCIANO (on camera): This is amazing. It's just like you said, like stratified layers in the Grand Canyon. It is so distinct. Can you see that on camera? I hope you can, because in the naked eye, it is unbelievable, truly remarkable. That right there is oil underneath the surface of the sand.

MARCIANO (voice-over): It glows in the dark but just how toxic is this sand?

KIRBY: Is it a problem for us to be in contact with this petroleum product that's now mixed in with the sand? The answer to that question is -- I don't know.

MARCIANO (on camera): Why hasn't somebody tested that?

KIRBY: Same question I've been asking for about six weeks.

MARCIANO: So we decided to get it tested with the help of the scientists from the University of West Florida.

MARCIANO (voice-over): Getting a good average requires taking samples in different spots, at different depths.

FRED HILEMAN, UNIVERSITY OF WEST FLORIDA: All right, let's take her back to the lab.

MARCIANO: There, Dr. Fred Hileman uses a solution to extract the sand, concentrate it, and analyze it as a liquid.

HILEMAN: You can just take a look at these samples and you can begin to see the difference in there as far as the oil content.

MARCIANO (on camera): It's plain as day.

HILEMAN: Yes.

MARCIANO: Clear water, clear sand -- dirty water, dirty sand.

HILEMAN: Or contaminated.

MARCIANO (voice-over): Further analysis puts an exact number on that contamination.

HILEMAN: It's 2.6 parts per million of oil in that sand sample that was given to us.

MARCIANO (on camera): So 2.6 parts per million, that number, what does it mean to people watching at home?

HILEMAN: A, it says the oil is there. B, the oil is there at low levels.

MARCIANO: Possibly healthy or safe levels?

HILEMAN: Not necessarily hazardous levels.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARCIANO: and that certainly is a little bit of good news for this area, the beach that we took a wide range of samples.

But I'm just looking off to my right, there's an area of beach that's visibly stained. If you were to take a sample from there, that number likely would be higher and potentially unhealthy.

But the overall health of this beach, from the samples that we took, seems to be OK. But the problem is, John and Kiran, that the natural processes to get that number back where it belongs, back to closer to zero, is still going to take months and years actually of the natural processes of breaking that oil down.

So that's a little bit disturbing, and certainly if you bring your child to the beach, you don't want him digging into that layer that's a little bit more concentrated. Keep them on the white stuff and you'll be fine.

ROBERTS: We see the breakdown happens quite quickly in open water, but there in the sand it will take a lot longer particularly with it being buried down in those layers?

MARCIANO: Yes. And you know, with the tide line coming up, every tide cycle you get more deposits of whatever particulates are in the ocean. So it will be quite some time, John. If we just cut off any sort of influx of oil it would happen a little bit quicker. But everyone we talk to seems to think it is going to be at least a couple of years before nature cleans this stuff up.

ROBERTS: Rob Marciano on the case for us it morning, thanks so much.

CHETRY: Thanks, Rob.

Well, talk about rubbing salt in the wound. There is another well leaking oil off of Louisiana's coastline this morning.

ROBERTS: A barge crashed into an abandoned well yesterday in an inlet just north of Barataria Bay, sending oil, natural gas, and water spraying 100 feet into the air. There is all kinds of old wellheads there.

Crews are on the scene laying boom. The area's already been badly contaminated from the BP spill. Right now it is not clear now how much oil is leaking, though it looks like a pretty good plume spraying up there, or how long it will take to cap this well. You can bet because it is above the surface it will be a lot shorter than the BP well.

CHETRY: The problem is it is in Barataria Bay area where there is such sensitive ground for breeding grounds for oysters and shrimp.

ROBERTS: That's over the course of decades. That's where they drew hundreds and hundreds of wells in that area. And to see those wellheads, those old Christmas trees every few feet in that area.

Keep it on CNN this morning. In just a few minutes from now, we'll be joined by the newly named CEO of BP, Bob Dudley. We'll talk about whether he's going to take this company in a different direction than it's been going in the last couple of years.

CHETRY: And for some insights into the oil spill, look back and toward the future, check out CNN.com/oildisaster for a very unique interactive experience.

ROBERTS: Also new this morning, an unstoppable wildfire tearing through the mountains in southern California. It's already devoured 40 homes in Kern County. That's just north of Los Angeles county. The fire has forced the evacuation of 2,300 people.

Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has declared a state of emergency for the area.

CHETRY: Pakistan police tell CNN at least 100 bodies have been recovered from a plane crash outside of the capital of Islamabad, 152 people were onboard. There is some conflicting information, though, about possible survivors. Pakistan's information minister had said that eight people were pulled out alive, but another who was at the crash site said crews have yet to find any survivors.

Our Reza Sayah is on the ground working to confirm the latest information about whether or not there are any survivors. A witness says it was raining at the time and that the plane burst into fiery pieces when it crashed. Rescue crews have found the plane's so-called black box data recorder.

ROBERTS: A stunning reversal by Utah's Supreme Court, the justices throwing out the 2007 conviction of polygamist leader Warren Jeffs for being an accomplice to rape. The Utah court ruled the jury instructions from the judge were wrong and ordered a new trial for Jeffs.

CNN's Gary Tuchman has extensively covered this story, including the trial. He'll join us at the bottom of the hour to talk about this latest development.

CHETRY: And we've seen the bloody video before. Now the controversial tradition of bull fighting is illegal at least in one region of Spain, in Catalonia, which includes Barcelona. Members of parliament passed the measure 68-55 to ban bullfighting.

The age-old tradition is being outlawed on animal cruelty grounds, but it's dividing animal rights activists and those who argue that bullfight something a central part of Spanish culture. CHETRY: Well, it is a question on every fashionista's mind about Chelsea Clinton and whose gown she will wear when she walks down the aisle. Will it be Vera Wang or Oscar De La Renta? The Clinton camp has remained tightlipped about all the wedding details, but we do know that "Women's Wear Daily" reports that Chelsea Clinton visited the Vera Wang Manhattan shop yesterday afternoon. The picture apparently showing the bride with a rather large hat on, attempting not to be noticed and recognized.

ROBERTS: In 1991, the Queen gave us the talking hat, in 2010 Chelsea gives us the shopping hat.

Ten minutes after the hour.

(WEATHER BREAK)

ROBERTS: Bob Dudley, the incoming CEO of BP joins us coming up in just a couple of minutes. Stay with us. It's 11 minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: It's 14 minutes now after the hour. The good news for Bob Dudley, he just got a big promotion. The bad news, he just got a big promotion.

The newly named CEO of BP will have his hands full when he takes the helm of the company in October. Among his challenges, rebuilding the company's battered image, footing the bill for an unprecedented catastrophe, and of course plugging one very stubborn well.

Bob Dudley joins us by phone now from BP headquarters in London. Mr. Dudley, we want to talk about where you are taking the company. But in the meantime, let's talk about the well since we haven't had the opportunity to talk to anyone from BP for a little while.

What's the timeline for killing the well, and in particular this static kill operation that we've been hearing about?

BOB DUDLEY, CEO, INCOMING CEO, BRITISH PETROLEUM (via telephone): Well, good morning, John.

You're right, that is the number one priority, get that well killed for good. There was tropical storm Bonnie came up through the area, and I sort of describe it as a low-impact bull's-eye. It went right over the site. We had to move the ships away and the rigs off.

They're now back on station. We're cementing and making sure that that relief well which is so close is in good shape. And then by Monday, we're likely to begin something called a static kill which is hooking up those manifolds and pumping heavy mud and cement down in the well. The objective is to stop the flow. And then we can come back in after that if need be with the relief well. And what I say, we're now 13 days with the well capped. We came back after the storm, the integrity of the well was good. And I think, John -- no guarantees -- but I believe there will be no more oil flowing into the Gulf as of the 15th of July.

ROBERTS: Now we saw, and this was when the top of the blowout preventer was opened and we saw the oil and the mud coming out of that riser pipe that an earlier top kill operation didn't work. What do you give the chances of this static kill operation?

DUDLEY: Well, higher, because before we were trying to push heavy mud down what is effectively a hose that was shooting up oil and gas, very high velocities because of the gas there. Now have you a closed system, so we'll pump into it. And what should happen is the heavy fluid should just sort of float down into the well hopefully and into the rock and then shut off the flow. So it is a very different concept.

ROBERTS: Now there's a great deal, of course, of mistrust of BP among people along the Gulf Coast. The White House still does not fully trust you. As the new CEO of this company, what are you going to do to restore trust, public trust in BP?

DUDLEY: Well, John, one thing I want to make very, very clear is that although I'll be heading off to London in October, the attention on this is this is the single highest priority for BP going forward. It is -- you can build -- the only way you can build a reputation is not just by words but by action. And there's -- I picked up that people think that once we cap this well we're somehow going to pack up and disappear. That is certainly not the case. We're -- we've got a lot of clean-up to do. We've got claims facilities. We've got 35 of those around the Gulf Coast. As of this morning, we wrote a quarter of a billion dollars of checks for claims. There are still more to go. We know that. We haven't been perfect with this, but it's a deep, deep personal commitment from me, for BP, and the many people in the Gulf Coast to make this right in America.

ROBERTS: Yes. Understood. But as the CEO, you not only have to deal with this but you have to deal with where the company is going in the future. And a lot of where the company goes will depend on where you came from. But this Tyson Slocum, who's an energy expert with the watchdog group, Public Citizen, talked about your appointment yesterday. He said that BP has a, quote, "culture of recklessness" and that you, Bob Dudley, must resist, quote, "the urge to simply do a PR facelift of the kind favored by Tony Hayward and other predecessors." So Mr. Dudley, what are you going to do? And you know, does BP need a top-down remake when it comes to management style and safety?

DUDLEY: John, I don't think BP is reckless. I think that nor do I think we do things to cut corners, and nor did we design wells that are somehow different than many of the other wells in the Gulf of Mexico. But, having said that, we've had a tragic accident and there is no question that we will make some changes going forward, significant changes. And from between now and October, there'll be a lot of planning and looking in what we need to do to focus on safety and reliable operations.

We're going to learn, not only BP, but the entire industry is going to learn from these investigations. But what came out of the marine board investigation in New Orleans last week shows that this is a very complicated accident with multiple companies and equipment involved.

ROBERTS: If I could just interject here on that issue of well drilling, you're saying you didn't do anything different or anything greatly different than other companies do. I spoke with your counterpart over at Shell, Marvin Odum last week, who said that Shell would never have drilled the well the way that BP did. It would have used different techniques. So going forward, because you will be in the deepwater drilling business again when this moratorium lifts, what is BP going to do differently than it's been doing in the past?

DUDLEY: Well, I've seen some of those comments. And of course, we're partners with Shell on other projects and I'm not going to come back directly at that. But the long-stream well he's referring to, Shell drilled some of those themselves. There's a great deal of wells that are drilled like that in the Gulf of Mexico, and I don't subscribe to his comments.

I think we have been focused on our own activities at the moment. We're focused on these marine board investigations. We have our own internal investigations. And I think there is yet a lot to be learned from this and I think it's probably premature for others to make comments on that.

ROBERTS: And there's one other issue that's hanging out there in terms of your financial statement yesterday, $17 billion in losses, $32 billion charge. As part of that $32 billion charge, BP is looking for nearly $10 billion in tax credits which critics say is a little disingenuous, that you're passing some of these costs on to the American taxpayer. Do you believe it's appropriate? Now maybe within IRS guidelines as Tony Hayward said yesterday. But do you, Mr. Dudley, believe it's appropriate for BP to be seeking almost $10 billion in tax credits after this accident?

DUDLEY: John, your tax-gone profits -- and our profits are certainly down. And I think that there's a different -- there are several ways of describing that but, I mean, the reality is our profits have taken a big hit this quarter. I think we are going to follow the law and that's kind of as simple as that. It's not seeking to try to do anything other than follow the law and I think of it as your tax-gone profit. Our profits are down so the tax payments will be lower.

But we put aside this $20 billion in escrow account. We put additional liabilities off to the side so that we can meet our obligations. We're selling off assets around the globe to be able to be sure we meet our commitments to the United States. I think we're doing what a company should do here, and we will meet our commitments in the U.S.

ROBERTS: Bob Dudley, the incoming CEO of BP, thanks for joining us this morning. Look forward to talking to you a lot more in the future.

DUDLEY: OK, John. Thank you.

ROBERTS: All right. You bet.

DUDLEY: Bye.

KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, still ahead, you're going to meet an Oscar, an illegal immigrant, who is living the American dream until his dreams went south of the border where he's now stuck in Mexico, in the middle of America's bitter immigration battle. We'll hear his story next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: Twenty-four minutes past the hour. Your top stories just a few minutes away. First though, an "A.M. Original," something you'll see only on AMERICAN MORNING.

The toughest immigration law in the land is set to take effect in Arizona tomorrow.

ROBERTS: Well, this morning, we had the emotional story of one young man caught in the middle of all of this. Somebody tried to do the right thing and is now stuck waiting for reform. Here's John Zarrella with Oscar's story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Highway 15 in Mexico, south of Tucson. A road running through the life of Oscar Vasquez.

OSCAR VASQUEZ, ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT: Most days I just go to work and come home and sleep and sleep as much as I can, then go back to work.

ZARRELLA: This part of Oscar's story will come later. Just remember Highway 15.

Let's go back. 2004. Carl Hayden Community High School in Phoenix. Vasquez, of Mexican descent, was a senior. He had been in the United States since he was 12 when he and his mother slipped across the border to meet his dad who was already here.

FARIDODIN LAJVARDI, OSCAR'S HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER: At the time, immigration was not that big. It was kind of accepted by everybody that we had undocumented students. But no one made an issue of it. It was kind of just like second nature.

ZARRELLA: He worked his way up to executive officer in the school's ROTC program. He was also part of a team of students, really bright students, who, with little money but a boat load of ingenuity, built an underwater robot.

CHRISTIAN ARCEGA, ROBOTICS TEAMMATE: You know, he was somebody you could trust. You know, he would always step up and try to take charge when nobody else would. I mean, if there was something that had to be done, he'd be the first to volunteer.

ZARRELLA: They called the robot "Stinky" for the glue that held it together.

LUIS ARANDA, ROBOTICS TEAMMATE: When you put this glue together with the PVC and opened it up, it just smells really, really --

ZARRELLA (on camera): It stunk.

ARANDA: Yes.

VASQUEZ: As soon as you walked in, you know, your head started spinning and --

ZARRELLA (voice-over): The team entered "Stinky" in a national competition judged by NASA and the U.S. Navy. Instead of entering the high school division, they put "Stinky" up against university competition, including a team from MIT.

VASQUEZ: We decided to go into university because if we did lose, which was probably the case, it wasn't going to be that bad to lose to university.

ZARRELLA: The robot was "Stinky" in name only. Of course, as all good stories go, it wins. These over-achieving high school kids from Phoenix are showered with accolades. For Oscar, it's the American dream coming true.

VASQUEZ: It was an accomplishment that I never thought I was going to be able to do. Just for me just going to high school and making it through high school was going to be a big thing. You know, no one in my family had even been to high school.

ZARRELLA: Oscar goes on to attend the engineering school at Arizona State. The school puts his picture on a brochure. He marries Carla. It was a simple wedding. They didn't have a lot of money. In May of 2009, Oscar stands during the commencement ceremony.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is known as a leader.

ZARRELLA: He's recognized as an outstanding example of perseverance and accomplishment. One of those in the audience applauding, President Obama.

VASQUEZ: I don't know, I was speechless most of the night. You're sitting there, you know, the president is right there just a few yards away from me. You know, it was pretty amazing. It was pretty special.

ZARRELLA: The president there to deliver the commencement address.

(on camera): That brings us back here to Highway 15 in Mexico. The American dream for Oscar went south, literally, taking a detour down this road.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey? Este? No?

ZARRELLA (voice-over): On a Sunday afternoon, Oscar's wife Carla, with a little bit of help, packs their 2-year-old daughter Samantha's suitcase, toys, too. She'll be up early Monday. It's a long drive from Phoenix to Highway 15 in Mexico to visit Oscar.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA: Now tomorrow, we are going to take you down Highway 15 with Carla and with little Samantha, and we will explain exactly why Oscar Vasquez is living now south of the border. And it may not be why you're thinking -- John, Kiran.

ROBERTS: John, you've got me hooked. I want to know the answer now.

ZARRELLA: You're going to have to wait until tomorrow. But let's put it this way. If people out there are thinking it is because Oscar was deported, they are wrong -- John, Kiran.

CHETRY: Interesting. We'll have to wait and see tomorrow how it all ends up. John Zarrella for us, thanks.

ROBERTS: John, good story this morning. Thanks so much.

Well, a little later on, this hour, we're going to be talking porn. Yes, we are. Nobody -- little secret that everybody's got. Right? The explosion --

CHETRY: Everybody?

ROBERTS: The explosion of porn on the Internet. Apparently, according to researcher Gail Dines, is affecting the way that this nation looks at sexuality. And you're going to want to hear what she has to say. It's coming up in just a little while here on the Most News in the Morning. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: Crossing the half-hour right now. Time to look at this morning's top stories. The disaster in the gulf in its final life cycle. Those words coming from a top Coast Guard official who says there is hardly enough oil at least on the surface to skim. But it will be weeks still before we know if BP can successfully kill its ruptured well once and for all. The static kill procedure is now scheduled to start next week.

ROBERTS: A critical situation unfolding right now in the mountains of Southern California. About 1,000 firefighters are racing to contain two wildfires that are burning in Kern County, just north of Los Angeles. 2,300 people have been told to get out and already at least 40 homes have gone up in flames. Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has declared a state of emergency for the area. CHETRY: Plus, veteran House Democrat Charlie Rangel confirming that his lawyers are discussing a possible settlement in the ethics scandal that could avoid a public hearing this week and embarrassment that Democrats really want to avoid. There are no details on the negotiations but House majority leader Steny Hoyer says it is up to Rangel to decide whether to resign. Rangel is accused of failing to disclose personal income as well as other ethics violations.

ROBERTS: After serving three years in prison as an accomplice to rape, polygamist leader Warren Jeffs is getting a legal reprieve from Utah's supreme court.

CHETRY: The justices threw out his conviction on a technicality saying that the trial judge gave the jury faulty instructions. CNN's Gary Tuchman has covered the Warren Jeffs' case extensively. He joins us now on the phone from Tucson, Arizona. You know, there are a lot of people even in the legal world who are outraged by this ruling by the court.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Well, Kiran, John, this is absolutely stunning. I mean, this man who was on the FBI 10 most wanted list of 2006, nabbed about four years ago and in prison for the last four years, now with the possibility of getting out of prison on bond after his conviction was overturned.

The judge ordering a new trial. You're right, Kiran, this was a technicality. The judge wasn't saying this man's not guilty but he was saying that the jury should have been told during the trial, his rape trial, that they must conclude Warren Jeffs new sex would take place between a 14-year-old girl who he married to a 19-year-old cousin.

The judge said that the jury had to be told not merely that he arranged to perform the marriage of the child, but they should have been told that he knew a rape would occur. Now, during the trial -- I assume the prosecutors told the jury that Jeffs married this girl, Alyssa Wald, to Alan Steed, her cousin, but not necessarily that they knew that there was a rape.

There was an assumption, the prosecutor said, that there was a rape. There is an assumption that Warren Jeffs would have known in advance that there would be sex taking place but they didn't explicitly tell the jury that during the trial. Warren Jeffs' attorneys told the judge, "please, we want the jury to be told specifically that --"

CHETRY: I think he cut out there. Gary, can you still hear us?

ROBERTS: No, seem to have lost the signal.

CHETRY: Yes. But as we heard from Jeffrey Toobin, this may not be the end of it. Of course, his lawyers are going to try to get him bail but he is also facing an indictment in the state of Texas. So there is a chance that Utah and Texas are going to get together and decide where the next trial will take place. But he could be out. ROBERTS: Yes, he could be if he makes bail but he would probably be determined a flight risk given the fact that he was on the most wanted list and couldn't be caught. Mark Shurtleff, the attorney general in Utah, also consulting with prosecutors as to whether or not to appeal this ruling yet again or to retry it. But the ruling, according to some legal experts, may preclude a retrial. So they may have no choice but to let him go to Texas. See where all this goes.

CHETRY: We'll still follow that. Gary, thank you. Sorry we lost your signal there.

Still ahead, unless a judge weighs in and stops it, Arizona's controversial immigration law is set to take effect tonight. Coming up, how the law is being viewed from the Mexican side of the border. An interesting perspective. We'll bring it to you in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

ROBERTS: Thirty-eight minutes after the hour. Right now in Arizona, police departments are readying their jails and going through special training preparing for more arrests with the state's strict and controversial immigration law taking effect tomorrow.

This morning a new CNN Opinion Research Corporation poll says most Americans do support the law. 55 percent in favor. 40 percent against it. More Americans say the law won't really make a dent in the problem while increasing discrimination against Hispanics.

CHETRY: Well, joining us now for a look at how people are reacting to this law across the border in Mexico is Ana Maria Salazar. She is a former President Clinton advisor and host of Imagine News. Thanks so much for being with us this morning, Ana Maria.

ANA MARIA SALAZAR, FMR. CLINTON ADVISER: Good morning, greetings from Mexico City.

CHETRY: We're getting a lot of reaction of course here. Public opinion in the United States, according to the latest CNN poll, shows that most actually favor this law going into effect in Arizona despite the fact that there, of course, is a lot of widespread outrage to it as well in some circles.

Looking at it from across the border in Mexico, what is the consensus about how this affects Mexico and migration?

SALAZAR: Yes, I guess the word is outrage and for a couple of reasons. You know, on the one hand, when they talk about undocumented Mexican workers in the United States, you know, what this law does is basically portray them as criminals. And yes, they are illegally in the United States. But at the same time, you know, it takes two to tango.

And the reason most of them are in the United States is because they're there to work. And I guess the question is, and I think what kind of mystifies Mexicans as they're looking at this law is, if they're going to treat the workers as criminals, why should you be treating the people who are hiring them as criminals and treat them in the same way?

I mean the problem of undocumented work in the United States, I think people in Mexico understand that there are many issues behind it, but the bottom line is, if the United States was so concerned about solving this problem because these people are there illegally, they should go after the people who are hiring them in the same way that they're going after the workers.

CHETRY: Well, it is interesting. There has been at least from our reporters, they have been talking about an increased crackdown on the hiring of people who do not have the proper paperwork. It's actually leading to less job availability in some of these places, including in Arizona.

And that's why we have actually seen what some are calling, you know, voluntary immigration back to Mexico in some cases because of the loss of job opportunity. One of the things that a lot of people ask when they e-mail in is why doesn't Mexico do a better job of providing opportunities for its citizens so that people do not have to leave their families, risk their lives and in some cases be branded as criminals here in the United States just to make an honest living?

SALAZAR: No, absolutely. If there is anything good that's come out of this whole debate is that, you know, Mexico has to kind of look, you know, look at itself. Not only in terms of what, you know, Mexico's going to do in the long term is trying to assure jobs for people so they don't have to go to the United States.

The truth of the matter is, if people -- if they had jobs, they would stay in Mexico. But there's also another issue that is -- that this debate has risen in Mexico, is how Mexicans treat undocumented central Americans who come to Mexico, mostly to try to get to the United States but some of them stay here in Mexico. I mean, there's a lot of questions and a lot of concerns in the way Mexicans -- the Mexican government treats also these migrants.

CHETRY: Right. As I understand --

SALAZAR: There's such issues that this debate has raised because of that.

CHETRY: Right. But as I understand it, it is much harsher than the way they would like Mexican citizens to be treated if they're caught here in the United States illegally. And as I understand it, Amnesty International put a lot of pressure on Mexico to sort of change the way that they deal with people that are caught illegally in their country. What's the latest with that?

SALAZAR: No, absolutely. And there is -- this, as I said, you know, this is an issue that's also been reflected in the newspaper and by the commentators. I guess the question is, even though Mexico's treating their migrants that way, is that a reason for the United States to treat Mexican migrants -- or migrants from any part of the world in, you know, violating their rights.

I am from that area. I was born in Tucson. I was raised in Mexico. I have been to Arizona and I can't tell you the number of times when I'm driving, I go visit family members, and I'm driving a car and I've been stopped by the cops. And really for no reason. And I have a lot of family members who have been in that situation.

CHETRY: That's interesting. What is --

(CROSSTALK)

SALAZAR: In fact, just a couple of days ago --

CHETRY: What is your personal take on the move that Arizona made? You know, a lot of their lawmakers are claiming the reason they had to do it was because they felt the federal government was not a good partner, not an effective partner in dealing with their problems when it comes to illegal immigration. You say you're from the Tucson area, what was your take when you heard all of this was happening there?

SALAZAR: Well, I think something has to be done. And if they wanted to solve this problem, they would go after the people who are hiring these workers in the same fashion or even harsher than against the workers. The problem when you go against these people, these are people who have no way to defend themselves. You have Mexican- Americans like me who are going to suffer from this law and are already certainly feeling for years now you have the sense that you are going to be discriminated simply because you're either in a Mexican car or you just don't look right.

So this law kind of opens up a box where it is just kind of giving you permission to mistreat people, whether they're in the United States legally or not. So I agree, something needs to be done, but there is a certain hypocrisy from the American government and both the Mexican government, because the problem is relatively simple. The Mexican government needs to give more jobs to their citizens and Americans need to stop hiring people who are undocumented. And if you hire them then you punish or treat them equally, both the employer and the person who's there without documents.

CHETRY: Right. Well, an interesting perspective today. This law goes into effect tomorrow. I'm sure there will be a lot of legal minds taking a look at how it is applied and of course the questions will continue to be raised about exactly how this is all going to work out.

But great to get your perspective today, Ana Maria Salazar. Thanks so much for being with us this morning.

SALAZAR: Good morning. Thank you. I enjoyed talking to you.

CHETRY: We did as well. Thanks.

ROBERTS: It's 45 minutes now after the hour. The explosion of porn on the internet. Is it changing our attitudes toward sexuality and women? Are we raising a new generation of boys whose primarily sexual education is cruel, violent porn?

And if we didn't get your attention with that, Jacqui's got the weather, coming right up. Stay with us.

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JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: And welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING. I'm meteorologist Jacqui Jeras.

It's been the wettest July on record for you in Milwaukee, Wisconsin and, unfortunately, we're adding to that number today. As you can see, showers and thundershowers have been moving through the area. They've been weakening a little bit, so that's some good news. It should keep the rainfall amount to about a half of an inch to an inch, but we do expect thunderstorms to fire up again, say, mid afternoon and continue through the evening and some of those could become severe.

We'll be watching places like Chicago, Indianapolis, Detroit, up towards Cleveland, Toledo, and even into Buffalo for that threat. Damaging winds will be our biggest concern.

We also have an area of severe weather expected in the intermountain west, and this is primarily due to dry thunderstorms, the type that don't really rain at the surface, that evaporate before it ever reaches the ground. So we'll be concerned about the fire danger. We'll talk more about the fires burning in California coming up in the next hour of AMERICAN MORNING. John and Kiran will be back after this break.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Work, you stupid thing.

I wonder who that could be.

RON JEREMY, PORN STAR: Hello. I'm here to fix the TV.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come this way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: Now do we have your attention? That -- it's actually a commercial for the British adult TV channel. But, yes, that was Ron Jeremy.

And if you spend any time on the internet, it's hard not to notice just how prevalent pornography is. There are 420 million internet porn pages, 4.2 million porn Web sites and 68 million search engine requests for porn each and every day. Pretty staggering numbers.

Our next guest is sounding the alarm about porn in our lives. Gail Dines is a professor of Sociology and Women's Studies at Wheelock College. She's the author of "Pornland: How Porn has Hijacked Our Sexuality". And Gail joins us now from Boston. Gail, thanks so much for being with us.

You say in your book and in studies that you've done that pornography today is not your father's "Playboy", that it's mostly gonzo porn that's really changing our attitudes towards sexuality and women. What are you worried about?

GAIL DINES, PROFESSOR OF SOCIOLOGY AND WOMEN'S STUDIES, WHEELOCK COLLEGE: Well, what I'm concerned about is that the level of brutality and cruelness in pornography's affecting the way that men think about women, and it's affecting the way they think about themselves and the way they construct ideas about sexuality. Because the more men view pornography, the more they begin to think like the pornographic world and I speak to many women and many -- indeed, and what the women tell me is that many of their boyfriends want to play out porn sex on their bodies.

ROBERTS: And this is simply because they're watching it on the internet?

DINES: Well, they're watching lots of it. I mean, this is not every man, of course, but what happens is the more you watch and of course the earlier you watch -- because the average age of first viewing pornography today is 11 years of age, which means that the boy's first introduction to sex is often pornography, because he has no history of sex to compare those images. So they look to him like regular, normal images of sexuality as opposed to very carefully crafted images.

ROBERTS: And -- and so if -- if you're looking -- if your very first sort of sexual experience, if you will, or your very first experience of looking at something like that is on the internet and it is, as you said, cruel, violent porn, so what -- what sort of image does that person carry with them as they grow up through the teenage years and become an adult?

DINES: Well, I would say that sex is something you do to women and it's something you do as way to debase them and dehumanize them. Sex is completely stripped of any intimacy, of any connection, of any relationship and basically it's just an act, it's instrumentally orientated. And most importantly, as I say, there's no connection or intimacy.

ROBERTS: Right. So -- so that prevents them or gives them more difficulty as they grow up into their 20s and 30s, of forming intimate relationship with a single partner?

DINES: There's no question. This is what the studies are finding now that the more men view pornography, the more difficult it is to actually have sex with a human being, the more difficult it is to have intimate relationships. And I've interviewed men who tell me that they actually prefer to have -- to use pornography than they do to have sex with another person.

ROBERTS: Oh. My goodness.

You know, there's a study out in 2003 by the Matrimonial Lawyers Association that found approximately 56 percent of divorced cases involve one party in the marriage who has an obsessive interest in pornographic Web sites. That's -- that's a huge number.

DINES: And this is new. Remember, we never really had this before and this is really thanks to the internet, which has made it more accessible and more affordable. And what you find, when you interview women who's -- and especially women whose partners have been habitually using pornography, is that they feel betrayed.

They feel like these men are having an affair. They want to know why aren't they good enough? What is it about them that have turned these men into using pornography? When, in fact, the reality is it has nothing to do with them. Pornography is industrial strength sex, and next to that actual sex looks boring and bland, which is why more and more men turn to pornography rather than real human beings.

ROBERTS: And you've gone straight to the industry to find out more about this in your research. You've actually attended porn conventions in Las Vegas.

DINES: I have.

ROBERTS: What are the -- what are the producers and the purveyors of this saying to you about where this industry is headed?

DINES: Well, I think a lot of them in the porn industry don't know themselves because they feel like -- they say to me this feels like a runaway train. And what happens is I think they're taken by surprise at just how cruel and body punishing the fans are asking for. I mean, they are surprised that the fans are going this far down to road to hardcore.

And the question is, where is this industry going? Nobody actually knows because there's nothing left to do to the female body anymore. It's all been done.

ROBERTS: Wow. Gail Dines, the author of "Pornland" How Porn has Hijacked our Sexuality". Some interesting food for thought this morning. Thanks for joining us. Really appreciate it.

DINES: Thank you very much.

ROBERTS: Top stories are coming your way in just two minutes. Stay with us.

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