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American Morning
Rescuing the Miners; Unemployment Rate Steady at 9.6 Percent in Month of September; EPA Deciding Whether to Classify Coal Ash as Hazardous Waste
Aired October 08, 2010 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Thanks so much for being with us. It's Friday, October 8th. I'm Kiran Chetry.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm John Roberts. Thanks so much for being with us. Here's what happening right now.
Coming up in about a half hour's time, new job numbers will be released by the Labor Department, the last major report on employment before the midterm elections. Some economists are predicting that the unemployment rate could go higher.
CHETRY: Also, we are learning details about the panicked thought process to pressure Shirley Sherrod to resign from the Department of Agriculture. Internal e-mails paint a picture of USDA officials scrambling to get rid of Sherrod while other warn Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack that he may not have the full story. Our Candy Crowley is live with details.
ROBERTS: And the CNN Exclusive, catching up to the most talked about candidate of the midterm election, Delaware GOP Senate nominee Christine O'Donnell covering everything from what she would do as a senator to what she said in the past.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me ask you one more thing about these video clips that have surfaced. Have you been embarrassed by those clips?
CHRISTINE O'DONNELL (R), DELAWARE SENATE CANDIDATE: No. I haven't been embarrassed and not saying that I'm proud.
ACOSTA: Now, I've covered a lot of --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Jim Acosta will be here with much more -- just ahead.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: First, though, we're getting an inside look of what was going on inside the Department of Agriculture after an edited YouTube video of Shirley Sherrod went viral over the summer. CNN has obtained the internal e-mails and documents reveal that the agency didn't have all the facts when they pressured Shirley Sherrod to resign. ROBERTS: And here's a series s of messages that were sent by USDA employees. They read, quote, "We need to take immediate action." Twenty-six minutes later, at 3:22 p.m., another message, quote, "The secretary is absolutely sick and mad over the Sherrod issue. He wants her immediately on administrative leave." And at 3:43, another employee writes, "Concur. She should be fired."
CNN chief political correspondent and host of "STATE OF THE UNION," Candy Crowley, is live in Washington.
And there was a couple of tracks going here on these e-mails, Candy. There were people who are saying, in the early going, at least, "Wait a minute. Do we have all the facts here? Let's not move too quickly." And then the secretary weighs in, and, bang, the hammer drops.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And, you know, among those people saying, wait a second, wait a second, you don't have the full story, is Shirley Sherrod, who in her resignation letter said, "I'm really sorry you haven't looked at this in context," who said earlier to the agriculture officials that she was in touch with, "Wait, if you look at the whole tape, here's what I was trying to say."
There are others saying, "Have we seen the whole tape?"
So, there was a lot going on. They acted very quickly.
It's also clear, I think, John, in these e-mails when you look at them that the overarching problem was a political one. You have someone e- mailing and saying, "Look, as political appointees our job is to protect the president."
You have a White House-type responding the liaison saying, you know, "You should know that everyone here's so pleased that there was such quick action."
So, this was clearly a decision that was hurried because of the politics of it. They were trying to stop the news cycle. They didn't what they thought was a very damaging story to go on for another news cycle. And, of course, what they got was a story when Shirley Sherrod went out on TV saying, "Wait a minute, this isn't what I said," once the whole tape got out, it went on for two and three and four news cycles and here we are again.
CHETRY: So, in the end, how big of a hit is this for the White House? How big of a hit is it for Tom Vilsack at the USDA?
CROWLEY: Well, look, nobody's covered in glory here. And -- but, you know, you're sitting around waiting for the unemployment figures. That's what matters. This certainly doesn't help. It certainly shows that like all administrations, this is an administration that is worried about the politics of things, about how things look.
Obviously, the agriculture secretary acted hastily. He apologized for it afterwards. So, I think, in general, this is a story that's fascinating to watch. What we don't have is any connection as in did someone at the White House say, "Fire this woman"? There doesn't seem to be any of that direct. There was praise for it but there was not a directive saying, "Listen, you got to fire this woman." So, that's missing.
So, I think it fills out the story, but it certainly, I don't think, moves the headlines today in terms of the upcoming elections.
ROBERTS: Fascinating to watch the time line where they're saying, "Get it off the news cycle. What happens if this goes another day?" And they said, "OK, let's do this."
CROWLEY: Yes.
ROBERTS: And then -- just like pushing the plunger down and the dynamite goes kaboom.
CROWLEY: Yes.
CHETRY: I mean, we called Shirley after seeing her protests about it in "The Atlanta Journal Constitution" article. She said, I was wrongly let go. We said, hey, do you want to talk? She said absolutely. And she was on our show that morning.
ROBERTS: Yes, by 7:00 that morning, we know that, hey, we don't have the whole story here. So, let's go slow ourselves.
CROWLEY: Yes.
ROBERTS: What's happening on "STATE OF THE UNION" this Sunday?
CROWLEY: A couple of topics. You won't surprised, less than a month before the elections. We're going to have on Chris Van Hollen, who, of course, is in charge of keeping the House Democratic. Also, Kevin McCarthy, a Republican, who's hoping to see a switchover.
But we're also going to talk a little bit about terrorism with former CIA director, Retired General Michael Hayden, just to kind of get a handle on what he thinks is going on, you saw the terror alert in Europe, the terror warning that the U.S. sent out and what they've done in Europe just to try to figure out what's going on there.
CHETRY: All right. Well, we'll be watching. Thanks so much, Candy. It's always great to talk to you on Friday morning.
CROWLEY: Thanks, guys. Have a good weekend.
CHETRY: By the way -- you, too.
And check out Candy on "STATE OF THE UNION." It's on Sunday morning, 9:00 Eastern, right here on CNN.
ROBERTS: We will see her then.
Most Politics in the Morning continues. For the first time since the morning after the primary, Delaware GOP Senate nominee Christine O'Donnell is talking us to. It's a CNN exclusive.
CHETRY: Until now, she swore off the national media, but tried to clarify some of her past comments about witchcraft in that campaign ad that went viral.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: I'm not a witch. I'm nothing you've heard. I'm you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Well, our Jim Acosta had a chance to catch up with O'Donnell in Delaware yesterday and asked her to explain some of the things that she said in the past and the message that she's trying to get across to voters. Here's a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: Your latest ad says, "I'm you."
O'DONNELL: Right.
ACOSTA: It's as if you're trying to reintroduce yourself to voters.
O'DONNELL: Yes, yes.
ACOSTA: Why is that? Is what you're trying to do?
O'DONNELL: Absolutely. My goal has been, since the primary, to go out and meet as many voters as possible so that they can get to know me and I can get to know them. I've got to hear what's on their minds so that I can know how I can help in Washington, D.C.
My goal, my whole candidacy, is about putting the political process back into the hands of the people. I'm not a career politician. I'm not someone who's been groomed by -- groomed for office. I'm not someone who's been handpicked by her party elite, by the party bosses, obviously.
ACOSTA: Right.
O'DONNELL: I'm an average American citizen. I'm an average Delawarean. I want to go to Washington, D.C. and do what most Delawareans would do.
I would not have voted for Obamacare. I would not have voted for the bailouts. I would not have voted for more of the spending bills that are putting us into bankruptcy and neither would you.
ACOSTA: Right.
O'DONNELL: That's what my message "I'm you" means. I want to do what you would do in Washington, D.C.
ACOSTA: Let me ask you one more thing about these video clips that have surfaced. Have you been embarrassed by those clips? O'DONNELL: No. I haven't been embarrassed and I'm not saying that I'm proud. You know, obviously, what they're trying to do is paint a picture of who I was 20 years ago. You know, I've matured in my faith. I've matured in my policies.
Today, you have a 40-something woman running for office. Not a 20- year-old. So, that's a big difference. And I think most people --
ACOSTA: Were you just having fun back then? Is that basically your message?
O'DONNELL: Well, I think back then as I said on Hannity's show, a lot of what I said, I had a newfound faith and I saw this as an opportunity to talk about the faith on national TV more as a ministry opportunity. But voters need to rest assured that when I go to Washington, D.C., it's the Constitution by which I will make all of my decisions. And I will defend their right to disagree with me. That's the most important thing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHETRY: And Jim joins us live from Washington right now.
What was your sense when you did get those 10 minutes to ask her questions and heard -- you know, we had a chance to hear her answers -- what was your sense of how she's doing and how this campaign is moving along?
ACOSTA: Well, I get the sense that she is definitely very worried that all of those clips that were aired on the Bill Maher show have damaged her campaign, that's why you're seeing her come out and throw kind of a Hail Mary pass with that "I'm not a witch, I'm you" ad.
And I think you're going to start seeing her doing more of these interviews. She's probably going to do more interviews with the national media because as you saw there, even though we try to ask the question about, what about those clips? What were you doing back then? She's very artfully answering that question in a short period of time and then dovetailing into the talking points and she did that throughout the interview.
Although I have to say, we threw a lot of questions at her on a variety of topics to see if perhaps we can throw her off and get at, you know, where she stands on a lot of critical issues of the day and, you know, from my standpoint, I thought she handled herself pretty darn well.
You know, obviously, if we had more time, we only had 10 minutes of her time to talk to her because she's so busy on the campaign trail, we would have delved into a lot of other subjects. But we got as much in there as we could.
CHETRY: You didn't mean throw her off, meaning that you wanted her to trip up, you're just saying that you throw her off the talking points?
(CROSSTALK) ACOSTA: Exactly. Yes, trying to get her off script. Yes, exactly, because so many, as you know, from talking to so many candidates, so many of these candidates come in scripted and they have their talking points sort of ready to go.
ROBERTS: Yes.
ACOSTA: And, you know, you try as a journalist to go through these issues that are out there and sort of mix it up and get them off of that script for just a few moments and we did that from time to time. She definitely does not want to talk about witchcraft. She definitely does not want to talk about some of those embarrassing clips brought up on the Bill Maher show.
And I asked her, you know, is there a chance you're go on his program between now and Election Day because he warned on her show that if she doesn't go on his show, he's going to throw out a new clip every week? And she said absolutely not. She is not going to do that.
She said she viewed that as a threat and because of that, she's not going to go on the show. Her campaign person did say maybe after the election she may go on.
ROBERTS: All right. We'll see.
But, you know, ducking the past thing, that's just pretty standard political operating procedure. I remember asking Al Gore in the 2000 campaign, what about this? "Well, John, this is about the future. It's not about the past." So --
ACOSTA: Exactly.
ROBERTS: Everybody does it.
ACOSTA: Everybody does it.
CHETRY: Which one was it? Was it Scott Brown that posed in "Cosmo," I mean, shirtless when he was in his 20s, right? Answered a few questions on that and people let him move on.
ACOSTA: Exactly. That's her message as you heard in the interview. She wants to say, look, all of this happened 10 years ago. I was in my 20s. I was on a comedy show as she called it. And it has nothing to do with where she is now, where she stands on the issues and what she wants to do in Washington.
ROBERTS: No question though that voters have some tough questions that they would probably like to ask the candidates. And we'll continue to go to the town halls and see what people say.
Jim Acosta, great job in getting her today.
ACOSTA: You bet.
ROBERTS: All right. ACOSTA: No candidate's getting more attention than Christine O'Donnell. Last night on the new CNN show "PARKER SPITZER," conservative Ralph Reed said that might just work.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES TRAUB, NEW YORK TIMES MAGAZINE: Why are we so interested at her? We have to remember, she beat Michael Castle.
KATHLEEN PARKER, "PARKER SPITZER" CO-HOST: Well, there is that.
TRAUB: Now, the entire professional Republican Party, not the whole party, but the professional party, was banking on this guy as, this how we're going to get to a majority Republican Senate.
Nobody thought this was going to happen. So, she became a poster child -- I think rightly so, whether you like her or not -- for the immense transformation inside the Republican Party.
PARKER: That's right.
RALPH REED, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think the left and the media are making a huge mistake strategically, and I think Christine O'Donnell is the greatest decoy in American politics.
PARKER: That's right.
REED: While they're firing all their artillery at her, Sharron Angle is beating Harry Reid, not in one, but two polls this week. Nikki Haley's going to be the governor of South Carolina. Susanna Martinez is now up in New Mexico by eight.
These mama grizzlies, these women candidates who are attractive and tough and smart and able are going to win from coast to coast, and Christine O'Donnell may surprise some people and win, too.
(CROSSTALK)
TRAUB: I don't deny that.
(CROSSTALK)
TRAUB: That maybe so, I don't know.
PARKER: There's no question that when people gang up on an individual like Christine O'Donnell, it has the opposite affect. I mean, there's a lot of sympathy for her.
TRAUB: Though it hasn't so far. The last poll showed her doing quite badly behind Coons, the Democratic candidate.
ELIOT SPITZER, "PARKER SPITZER" CO-HOST: Right, the Democratic nominee.
TRAUB: So, she may be a casualty. But I think Ralph may well be right about the trend that she is a representative of. (END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Well, don't miss the CNN show "PARKER SPITZER" wrapping up week one tonight, 8:00 Eastern.
CHETRY: Also, don't forget next Wednesday, Delaware Senate candidates Chris Coons and Christine O'Donnell will face off in a debate moderated by Wolf Blitzer. You can watch it right here on CNN. We're also going to have complete coverage live from Delaware right here on AMERICAN MORNING.
ROBERTS: John Lennon forever changed the face of popular music. He would have turned 70 years old tomorrow. But the memories live on. I sat down with Lennon's oldest son, Julian, for his personal thoughts at the first exhibition of his photographs in New York City. That's coming up.
CHETRY: Also, great news. One of the rescue shafts being drilled to free the miners trapped in Chile should get to them by tomorrow morning. So, now, they're moving forward, deciding exactly how the rescue will work.
We're going to get a live report from Chile -- still ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. They've been trapped under ground for more than two months, but now, a drill is boring (ph) through the final few feet, expected to reach 33 Chilean miners by tomorrow. Now, officials say it will be another two to ten days before the men can actually be brought up to the surface.
Our Karl Penhaul is following the developments live in Copiapo, Chile for us this morning. So, why the big range, two days to ten days? I know for the families who have been waiting, I mean, that's a huge difference.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN VIDEO CORRESPONDENT: It certainly is. You would think that not so much having been waiting all this time for more than 62 days now, but now, every minute is counting. The expectation is growing. Really get the sense that this is the beginning of the end. But what's going to happen, once this drill breaks through, now that could be tomorrow, but it could also be as soon as today depending on what kind of speeds that drill is getting.
After that, the engineers are going to decide whether they encase the entirety of that rescue shaft to prevent rock falls inside, but they've said maybe the only (ph) case the top of it because they say it's the top that's in worse conditions where the rock is loses. And lower down, it's kind of a granite soft. So, it should be able to withstand that phoenix rescue capsule coming up.
So, that's why the wait (ph). If they encase the whole length, it might take up to ten days to hoist the miners back to surface. If they only go with encasing the first 100 meters, about the first 300 feet, then the miners will come out much sooner, Kiran.
CHETRY: That's amazing. I know that you've had a chance to talk to some of the families as this decision-making process is taking place. Who's going to come up first? Who maybe left behind? How are the families dealing with all of this as it becomes -- it looks like it's inevitable that they're love ones be brought back up soon.
PENHAUL: One of my questions and where we are here around here that you can maybe see below me is what they call Camp Hope, a tent village where the family members have been waiting. And every night, they light the campfires and man a vigil for their loved ones. And I was saying to them, I said, you know, I get in a bad mood about waiting an hour or a couple of hours. I said, what does it mean to wait for 62, 63 days?
One lady, she said to me, she says, you know, it feels like a bad itch that is bothering me every minute of every day. There's nothing I can do about it. I can only go on and wait. And she says, but all I want to do is get my husband out of that mine, get him back home and forget that all of this ever happened.
Another lady that I talked to, she said for the last two months, she says I feel that I've been living in a dream. The problem is every time I wake up, I realize that this is my reality. My husband is trapped, and I can't do anything else. She says I've got knots in my stomach. My head hurts, she says, but hopefully this will soon all be over.
CHETRY: You just sympathize with them. You really just can't imagine what it would be like to be in their shoes. As for the miners, are they being told? I mean, do they have this information that this could happen sooner rather than later? That it could be by this weekend that they'll be out?
PENHAUL: Yes. These miners certainly have been kept up to date with every stage of the progress on this rescue operation. And because of the -- because of the proximity of that drill bit to the roof of the tunnel where they are holed up right now, they can hear that day and night. They can hear that drill grinding away. And right now, this minute, that drill is probably no more than 200 feet away.
And as I say, technically, given the speeds of this drill has reached in the course of this rescue operation. Breakthrough could come as soon as today. The mine's minister kind of saying that there are few expectations too much saying that certainly by tomorrow.
CHETRY: Just amazing the progress that they've made and the fact that they're all still down there alive. Karl Penhaul for us in Copiapo, Chile. Thanks so much -- John.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: John Lennon's son, Julian, has ended his long running family feud, and his first photo exhibit is what's bringing the Lennon family together. His personal story and his striking photos coming up next. It's 19 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CHETRY: Welcome back. It's 23 minutes past the hour. It's an "A.M. Original" for you, something you'll see only on AMERICAN MORNING. It's hard to imagine John Lennon as a senior citizen. But had he lived, he would have turned 70 years old tomorrow.
ROBERTS: And recently, Lennon's oldest son, Julian, made his debut as a professional photographer with an exhibit of his works here in New York City. I sat down with Julian to talk about his pictures, many of them of his half brother, Sean, and two families and his father's enduring legacy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS (voice-over): It was photographing his brother, but seeing his father that gave him the inspiration.
JULIAN LENNON, PHOTOGRAPHER: It's one of my favorite shots of him. I mean, if -- he looks to me, nose and mouth with the glasses looks more like Lennon than Lennon. I mean, that's why it's Lennon by Lennon.
ROBERTS: After spending his music career in the shadow of his famous father, Julian Lennon wanted something all his own. So, in the city his father loved, he premiered his first photography exhibit.
ROBERTS (on-camera): How did you get the bug to get behind the lens?
LENNON: I think it was only probably three or four years ago when Sean was on tour in Eastern Europe, and I decided to surprise him on the road. And I brought a camera along. And it was only after I got home and started editing through those pictures that I sort of went, oh, I kind of like this. And one thing led to another.
ROBERTS: It had just been a hobby until that point?
LENNON: Until that point, yes, yes, absolutely.
ROBERTS (voice-over): It led Lennon to capture intimate moments through a series of landscapes and portraits with subjects like Kate Hudson and the band U2.
ROBERTS (on-camera): This is one I wanted to ask you about because it's a picture of Bono beneath the picture of your father.
LENNON: Sure. You know, I mean, we've -- we did discuss this. I think it's very much, you know, a very special picture for me because he looked up to dad and I look up to him and dad. So it's -- it's, you know. That was goose bumps for me when I took that shot.
ROBERTS (voice-over): Goose bumps that surely returned for Lennon the night of his opening. After decades of disagreements and infighting, the entire Lennon family, including his mother Cynthia and Yoko Ono came together for the first time.
ROBERTS (on-camera): How did that make you feel when everybody was together in the same place after so many years? LENNON: I mean, the one thing I didn't want to do was overshadow the show. Being a little, you know, selfish in that regard, but the fact that we all ended up in the same room together, you know, hugging and kissing was pretty phenomenal.
ROBERTS: I could imagine.
LENNON: I don't think many people thought that would happen.
ROBERTS (voice-over): The reunion, bittersweet. A stark reminder of John's absence. And more reminders are coming.
ROBERTS (on-camera): Very significant date coming up in just a few --
LENNON: Apparently so. Yes.
ROBERTS: What would have been your dad's 70th birthday?
LENNON: Yes.
ROBERTS: Where do your thoughts run when you think about that significant anniversary?
LENNON: First and foremost, I think what age am I and what age he would have been and how weird is that just to begin with. But, you know, these days, I look back with a fondness and with respect and with, you know, in many respects of the achievements that he gained throughout his life.
ROBERTS: You know, this is a question I've asked people over the years. Mark David Chapman came up for parole again just a couple of weeks ago. He was denied for the sixth time.
LENNON: Yes.
ROBERTS: Should he ever be released?
LENNON: I can't answer that. You know, there's supposed to be room in our hearts in all of our hearts for forgiveness. My own thoughts are personal on that and my own and will remain that way. That's for me and my own thoughts and my own quiet time.
ROBERTS: Do you think his life would be in danger if he were ever --
LENNON: Oh, absolutely. No question about it. You know, I don't wish harm on anybody, but I think that if he did get out someone would try and hurt him. That's for sure.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: Never told us what his thoughts were whether or not he should ever be paroled. Certainly, Yoko Ono has made appoint appeal that he should spend the rest of his life in prison.
CHETRY: It's amazing that Julian, I mean, he seems so comfortable in his own skin and so self-assured and just really made the best of a very difficult situation. I imagine, growing up.
ROBERTS: He's a very nice fellow. There were some fights a few years ago about him trying to get a share of the estate, but that all got worked out as we saw the other day at that reunion. Everybody came together.
CHETRY: So surreal to see Yoko and Cynthia hugging.
ROBERTS: Pretty remarkable. It's the first time that has ever happened.
This programming note, by the way, our CNN documentary "Losing Lennon: Countdown to Murder" because we're coming up this December on the 30th anniversary of his murder. It premiers Saturday and Sunday, December 4th and 5th at 8:00 and 11:00 p.m. eastern. Make sure you don't miss it.
CHETRY: And look forward to it.
ROBERTS: Is the economy growing? September jobs numbers are out just a few minutes, and economists expect unemployment will rise. Up next, we're going to talk to two CEOs from two different companies. One who is hiring, and one who's not. And what are their long-term hiring plans? That straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Crossing the half hour. It's time for this morning's top stories.
A jailed Chinese dissident awarded the Nobel Peace prize. The Nobel committee honoring Liu Xiaobo for his, quote, "Long and nonviolent struggle for fundamental human rights in China is the first Chinese citizen to receive the Nobel peace prize.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: New internal e-mails detail the Department of Agriculture rush to oust Shirley Sherrod after a conservative blogger hosted an edited speech that falsely gave the impression she discriminated against a white farmer.
In one e-mail an official traveling with Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack writes the secretary is, quote, "absolutely sick and mad over the Sherrod issue. He wants her immediately on administrative leave." Vilsack eventually apologized.
ROBERTS: And a CNN exclusive with the candidate who said she would not talk with the national media, Delaware GOP Senate nominee Christine O'Donnell. Our Jim Acosta caught up with O'Donnell at her campaign headquarters asked her how she feels about the head mama grizzly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Is Sarah Palin qualified to be president?
CHRISTINE O'DONNELL, (R) DELAWARE SENATE CANDIDATE: Is she running for president?
ACOSTA: I don't know. You tell me.
O'DONNELL: Again, hypothetical.
ACOSTA: I've heard you talk with her on the phone with her. Does she advise your campaign?
O'DONNELL: She does not advise our campaign.
ACOSTA: Does she give you advice?
O'DONNELL: She gives me, you go girl advice --
ACOSTA: Did she rally tell you to speak through FOX News?
O'DONNELL: She didn't tell me personally, but I heard her say something like that on "O'Reilly." If anyone knows anything about the politics of personal destruction, it's women candidates, women politicians like Sarah Palin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Just in to CNN right now, the new jobs report for September. Go ahead. You can hand them to us. It's fine. Christine Romans is here to break it down. Literally just in. She's been on the phone right now. Unchanged for the percentage, right?
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: The unemployment rate stays still at 9.6 percent. A lot of people had expected it to rise a little bit. It did not -- 9.6 percent the jobless rate.
Overall, though, we lost 95,000 jobs in the month of September, 95,000 jobs were lost. What we've been zeroing in on for the past few months is private sector jobs. What are private businesses doing? Are they hiring again? And they are slowly, up 64,000 jobs there.
The big job loss came in government jobs. The government shed 159,000 jobs, census jobs, those ate local government jobs with all these big budget cuts. We did see gains in health care jobs, an area consistently gaining jobs.
One thing troubling in this report I wanted to bring to everyone's attention and something we're watching to see if it turns, people who are working part time, but want to be working full-time -- 9.5 million people in this country working part time and ready, willing. and able to have a full-time job to get the labor market turned around. That is an all-time high. We've never had that many people working part time and want a full-time job. That's an important point to keep watching and the last jobs report before the midterms.
CHETRY: Thanks, Christine.
ROBERTS: So how does this play out where the rubber meets the road? Who's hiring and who's not? We're joined now by the heads of two companies, Ron Shaich. He is the CEO of Panera Bakery cafes. He says he'll hiring about 5,000 employees in the next year. And Clint Greenleaf, a book publisher with 38 employees, he says he would like to hire up to 40 more but not sure where the economy is heading and so is holding off for now.
Gentleman, thank you for being with us this morning. And Clint, let's start with you. You said in a recent writing you're tired of the financial media and analysts telling you why you're not hiring, so let's hear it from the horse's mouth. Why are you not hiring?
CLINT GREENLEAF, CEO, GREENLEAF BOOK GROUP: Thanks, John. It's pretty clear to me at least that the reason I'm not hiring is because of all the uncertainty. There's new taxes and laws coming out that it scares me a whole lot. We provide great benefits. If I bring on a new staff and that changes -- our health insurance went up 20 percent alone. I won't be able to keep on the great benefits that we've got, and the uncertainty is really what drives this issue for me.
ROBERTS: Ron, are you a lot more certain about the future than he is?
RON SHAICH, CO-FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN, PANERA BREAD COMPANY: No more certain about the future than Clint. But here's what we do know.
ROBERTS: OK.
SHAICH: We can't control the economy. What we can control is our reaction to our competitors. And what we have done is while competitors cut back, we have invested. We have invested in the guest experience, invested in the quality of the labor.
The result is we've been able to drive sales up, comp store sales up almost double digits. That means that we're able to hire people. We'll hire 35,000 people this year, 5,000 new slots.
ROBERTS: So, you're one of the organizations that's taking these down economic times as an opportunity to grow your business?
SHAICH: In fact, John, this is the best opportunity to grow. Our real estate costs are down 20 percent. Our construction costs down 20 percent. As long as you have a stable sales base, this is the best time to grow.
ROBERTS: So Clint --
SHAICH: Fortunes will be made in this time. Our stock is double now.
ROBERTS: That sounds like a great idea. Why can't your organization do that?
GREENLEAF: Well, it's interesting. We are a lot smaller. I enjoy Panera and so I'm glad to hear they're growing but --
SHAICH: Thank you.
GREENLEAF: For us, at least, we have 38 people and I can't really leverage the whole business. I'm the sole owner of the company and can't leverage myself that far. It's different with 38 folks. I want a business here to pay them after we're all said and done and once the recession is over.
ROBERTS: The publishing industry is under enormous pressure. Even the big ones like Barnes & Noble and Borders as well, the Kindle, the iPad cutting into book sales. How are you weathering that part of it?
GREENLEAF: We have been lucky. We are up about 20 percent of last year's numbers. The big issue for us is e-book world is a huge opportunity, and if I had a little more certainty I would be comfortable hiring people and trying to test new theories and new policies. Instead I'm just growing 20 percent a year, which isn't too bad, but if I was more certain, I could do more with it.
ROBERTS: Ron, I guess you could probably apply what Clint is saying to so many companies across the nation, that they're skittish. The uncertainty is bothering them. What's it going to take for companies to have the sort of confidence you do?
SHAICH: Well, it's to recognize we never, ever have certainty. And we live in an uncertain world. All we can control is ourselves, and all folks like Clint and Panera can do is what Clint is doing, be a better competitive alternative. When we do that, then we create economic growth and are able to hire.
ROBERTS: All right. Well, difficult times in a down economy but, gentlemen, we appreciate you both coming on to tell us how it's affecting you and what you plan to do in the future. Ron and Clint, good to have you on this morning.
GREENLEAF: Thank you.
SHAICH: Good luck.
ROBERTS: Thanks for being here.
CHETRY: It's very interesting to hear their perspectives.
ROBERTS: I love hearing from people who are actually out there in the world and trying to make it happen.
CHETRY: Yes. Just also questions about whether, you know, the administration's policies towards small business have helped. It seems that is there's still uncertainty of where the health care debate, you know, and enacting this, what will lead the small businesses.
ROBERTS: It's interesting to see they both have uncertainty and it's interesting to see they're each dealing with it.
CHETRY: I like the fortunes will be made, the positive end of it, right? We'll see.
Meanwhile, the EPA is considering cracking down on the more than 500 coal-burning plants across the country. Neighbors suspect toxic elements like arsenic have actually leaked into their ground water. But by classifying coal ash as toxic as hazardous could cost American jobs. Carol Costello has both sides of the debate coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to "The Most News in the Morning." The federal government is close to deciding whether or not they're going to crack down on hundreds of coal-fired power plants across the country. Now, if they were to classify some of the releases as toxic or hazardous, it would be welcomed news for thousands of people who live near the facilities and believe that the air and water is contaminated by the ash.
ROBERTS: If officials decide to declare coal ash hazardous, there could be a painful backlash in lost jobs, an awful lot of them. Carol Costello is back with an "A.M." original. Good morning.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A very complicated issue. The EPA is now deciding to classify whether coal ash as a hazardous waste. Some say that's a no-brainer. After all, coal ash contains potentially cancer-causing substances like arsenic and cadmium.
But others say it's not that simple. If coal ash is classified as hazardous, you will notice it in your electricity bill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: Chuck runs the National Gypsum plant in Pennsylvania. His company makes drywall. In fact, National Gypsum's drywall could be in your home right now.
COSTELLO (on camera): So how fast does this move? How much product in a certain amount of time?
CHUCK NEWELL, NATIONAL GYPSUM: This is running at about 475 feet a minute.
COSTELLO (voice-over): National Gypsum is proudly green. All of the drywall manufactured here is made of synthetic gypsum, recycled from material taken from First Energy corporation's nearby plant after it burns coal to make electricity.
NEWELL: In the good year, we'll use excess of 800,000 tons of material.
COSTELLO (on camera): Every year?
NEWELL: Every year.
COSTELLO (voice-over): But he says that may change. His green company may go bust because the EPA is deciding whether to label al waste of coal-burning power plants hazardous.
NEWELL: Our biggest concern is that if we're classified along with the rest of the material that comes from the power plant as hazardous, our product may be tainted.
COSTELLO: And here's why. This is where tons of coal waste from First Energy ends up, Little Blue Run, the company's 976-acre retention pond. This waste is toxic. It contains arsenic, cadmium, and lead, substances that can cause cancer.
National Gypsum doesn't get any of its raw material from Little Blue, but that doesn't matter to Tyra Collins and Marcy Carpenter who live near Little Blue. They went the EPA to slap a hazardous label on everything that comes out of First Energy because they say coal waste is dangerous.
MARCY CARPENTER, CONCERNED ABOUT COAL ASH: They told us that the stuff in there is completely harmless. Well, then, why did we see dead trees? Why is everything dead around it?
COSTELLO: Neighbors fear the stuff is seeping into the ground water and into their underground wells.
COSTELLO (on camera): Have you noticed anything with your water?
TYRA COLLINS, CONCERNED ABOUT COAL ASH: Every once in a while I notice a smell. But yes. We don't drink the tap water. But we also --
COSTELLO: You don't drink tap water?
COLLINS: Not from my well. We drink bottled water. I give my dog bottled water.
COSTELLO (voice-over): Newell is sympathetic but he says not all waste from the burning of coal is hazardous. Synthetic gypsum is not coal ash; it's produced in a completely different way. It does contain arsenic and lead but in such tiny amounts the EPA says it poses no health risks.
CHUCK NEWELL, NATIONAL GYPSUM: There's nothing hazardous about it. It's the equivalent of natural Gypsum that you mine and quarry.
COSTELLO (on camera): This is even in the offices of the EPA in Washington, D.C.?
NEWELL: Yes, it is, yes.
COSTELLO (voice-over): The Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection agrees with that assessment. Plus, it closely monitors Little Blue and says it's not endangering the public, either. It also says the EPA's pending decision is causing unnecessary fear.
JOHN HANGER, PENNSYLVANIA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION: We don't dismiss the possibility of a problem. That's why we have 69 monitoring wells. At the same time, it's -- it's also, I think, irresponsible to sort of just fan peoples' concerns.
COSTELLO (voice-over): The EPA isn't budging though; it should make a final decision on whether to label coal waste hazardous next year.
(END VIDEOTAPE) COSTELLO: First Energy maintains the retention pond is totally safe; that's Little Blue I'm talking about. Little Blue contains no contaminants they say and no contaminants from Little Blue have ever reached residential drinking well. If the EPA decides to designate coal waste hazardous, though, First Energy would have to close down Little Blue within five to eight years.
As for the drywall industry, it could continue making drywall with, of course, synthetic gypsum although as you heard Mr. Newell's concern the designation of hazardous may hurt his business because you know if you're sort of like lumped in with all the other stuff.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Right.
COSTELLO: Would you really want the drywall in your house?
CHETRY: It's interesting that you say it's up at the EPA offices right in Washington, D.C.?
COSTELLO: Drywall perfectly safe. The EPA says perfectly safe but they've got to sort this all out.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: And can you make an exception for, you know, coal ash that is captured in gypsum and put in between?
COSTELLO: You absolutely could.
ROBERTS: If this is --
(CROSSTALK)
COSTELLO: You absolutely could. But Mr. Newell said even if the EPA does that, he'll still be tainted or painted with that same brush --
ROBERTS: Yes.
COSTELLO: -- and people will at least wonder whether they should put this dry well in their house even though it's perfectly safe.
ROBERTS: A lot of sides to this argument, aren't there?
COSTELLO: Lot, it's very complicated.
ROBERTS: Carol thanks so much.
COSTELLO: It's true.
ROBERTS: Well, a fantastic fall Friday. Warm temperatures, dry weather but subtropical storm Otto could become a hurricane later on today. Rob Marciano has got all the details. He's coming right up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Welcome back to The Most News in the Morning. We're looking at a decent weekend -- at East -- a lot of places, actually. That dreary low that was just putting a hurt on the -- the northeast as far as a lot of rain and cool weather, that's moving out. It will be kind of cool but not terrible in the East Coast. Pretty warm in the midsection of the country; it's (INAUDIBLE) and it pumps up the temperatures there.
This is the low that caused all of the havoc across parts of Arizona, in SoCal it's beginning to whine itself out. A little snow in the upper levels of the high country but that is about it, so generally speaking, not a bad weekend.
In the Pacific Northwest we'll see some rain -- so not too bad to go check out the leaves. The aspens of course are in full bloom there or a full or peaking -- so are the ash and sugar maples across to the northern tier and the northern Appalachians and parts of the upstate New York in the Adirondacks in the white and green mountains, yes, they're in it, too. So get out and enjoy that.
Here's tropical storm Otto, 70-a-mile an hour winds it's heading to the east-northeast at 14 miles an hour. Still raining heavily, flooding issues across Puerto Rico and the U.S. and British Virgin Islands. And hopefully get this some drier air in there but this thing is going to track eventually towards the north and east. Potentially as a Category 1 hurricane and I think the next stop will likely be, well, maybe Portugal.
You're up to date weather wise. AMERICAN MORNING is coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: What? What do you mean? We didn't get to see what he was going to do that time.
ROBERTS: Walking through a shot is not an antic.
CHETRY: Maybe we're supposed to look at the shadow?
ROBERTS: Pink.
CHETRY: I love it.
ROBERTS: Got it.
It's time for an "A.M. House Call," stories about your health this morning. Each October millions of Americans wear their pink ribbons and other items and walk miles for breast cancer awareness.
CHETRY: They make a lot of money -- raise a lot of money in the process, but a leading cancer doctor says it's not enough. Earlier on AMERICAN MORNING, Dr. Susan Love said that we need a new campaign that goes beyond just pink.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DR. SUSAN LOVE, AUTHOR, "DR. SUSAN LOVE'S BREAST BOOK: We're aware now. For 25 years we have been doing breast cancer awareness month and in some ways that makes us complacent and instead of focusing how can we stop this disease once and for all? I really would like to see us not stop doing research on the cure but also go beyond the cure and find the cause and stop it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: She says she wants people to join what's called her Army of Women campaign where you take part in research that's aimed at finding the cause because she says cure is great except that all of the modern solutions still are not much different than surgery, radiation, chemo and perhaps hormone therapy. And she says, you know, it's still extremely difficult for people dealing with it. She says we need to get into these programs; we need to start looking more into a cause.
ROBERTS: Yes. Find out the basic mechanisms by which all of this happens. They're looking but maybe they're not looking enough according to Susan.
Fifty-five minutes after the hour. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Well, a home plate in a baseball diamond in about 17 inches wide. However, Florida governor Charlie Crist needed one that was about 17 feet wide. He threw out the ceremonial first pitch yesterday before game two of the division series in Tampa. And, well, let's just say duck.
CHETRY: Poor catcher. He almost hurt himself trying to catch that thing.
ROBERTS: They must have given him the grease ball. At least, at least he made it to the plate, he didn't bounce it like so many people do but --
(CROSSTALK)
CHETRY: Right.
ROBERTS: It came right off the fingers just a little early.
CHETRY: He had a lot of speed. He was going to get it far enough.
ROBERTS: Good throw, just wrong direction.
CHETRY: Well, of course, the first thing that popped in our head, of course, was the movie "Major League". Just call Governor Crist the wild thing. So we're wondering what would Harry Doil say about that pitch?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Into the wind of his first offering. Just a bit outside.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Just a bit outside. Just a bit outside.
CHETRY: Just a bit.
ROBERTS: Well, programming note. Next week North Korea planning a major military parade and a series of war games to honor the founding of the Workers' Party of Korea. Join us as our Alina Cho reports live from inside North Korea starting Monday, here on AMERICAN MORNING.
CHETRY: All right. That sounds good.
Meanwhile, we are going to have our weekend. We'll be back bright and early Monday morning. Hope you'll join us.
ROBERTS: "CNN NEWSROOM" with Kyra Phillips starts right now. Good morning Kyra.
