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American Morning
Space Shuttle "Discovery" Set to Return Home; Koch Brothers: Deep Pockets, A Lot of Influence; Congressman King Defends Radical Islam Hearing; Turn Off During Take-Off; Gadhafi-Libyans Take Up Arms
Aired March 09, 2011 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. The fight is intensifying in Libya. Moammar Gadhafi trying to crush the rebellion and threatening the U.S. and its allies on this AMERICAN MORNING.
And good morning to you all on this Wednesday, March 9th. Welcome to this AMERICAN MORNING. I'm T.J. Holmes.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Kiran Chetry. Glad you're with us. We want to start, though, with some severe weather that's taking place down south this morning. Reports of tornadoes touching down. Let's get to Rob Marciano. He's in Atlanta tracking all of it for us this morning. Hey, Rob.
MARCIANO: Good morning, guys. A lot of this action is right around the Lake Pontchartrain area there in Southeast Louisiana right near New Orleans. As a matter of fact, a couple of these cells are heading towards the New Orleans and metropolitan area, but nonetheless, the I- 10 and I-12 corridor there, very, very populated, and we have a number of tornado warnings out, including St. Tammany Parish, Washington Parish there, right along the Mississippi and Louisiana border and then back towards New Orleans.
St. John the Baptist, Lafourche Parishes, and potentially, getting into New Orleans Parish at some point this morning. And we do have a confirmed tornado touch down on I-12 at Lakhome (ph), and also, another one in Mississippi. So, these storms are having rotation and some of that rotation is touching the ground, and there's been some reports of debris, at least, on the roadways there on i-12.
The system moves up to the north, as well. It's a big one. And we also have another tornado warning out for parts of South Central and Western Alabama. A little bit less populated there, but nonetheless, a very strong and dynamic system with strong straight line winds that are moving towards Montgomery and Birmingham, and eventually, towards Atlanta.
And also, guys, a lot of rain with this, a tremendous amount of moisture. And that's going to be the ongoing issue for the next two days as this makes its way eastward. Flood watches posted up and down the Appalachians, and New Jersey has seen its fair share of flooding with the system that rolled through. And this is not going to help that situation. We'll cover that part of the story, as well. Back up to you. CHETRY: Rob, thanks so much. We'll check in with you throughout the morning. A lot going on.
HOLMES: Let's turn back to Libya now. Moammar Gadhafi has planes and tanks now said to be slamming rebels who are holding a key oil refining city. The reports are of fierce fighting in Zawiyah just outside the capital, just 30 miles from Tripoli.
Reuters reporting that a barrage of bombs has forced the shutdown of Zawiyah's oil refinery. We're seeing more dramatic video, as well, of a massive explosion. This is a massive weapons depot where this happened. This is east in the city of Benghazi. That is a city that's been held by rebel forces.
Meanwhile, Colonel Gadhafi, we have video of him last night arriving with his entourage making an appearance at a hotel in Tripoli. There were about 100 journalists there waiting for some nine hours. He went in one direction where they got a look at him. But he went out a back door.
CHETRY: Well, our Nic Robertson was among that throng of reporters. He joins us from Tripoli this morning. Intense interest on these changing developments in Libya. What is the latest today, Nic?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): I'm sorry, Kiran, can you repeat that question for me?
CHETRY: No problem. The latest on Libya today, what can you tell us this morning?
ROBERTSON: Well, the government's reacting quite strongly against the proposition of a no-fly zone here. When I talked with the deputy foreign minister last night, he told me that the no-fly zone was imposed on the country that would be an act of war by the international community.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not up to him, actually. This is purely internal affairs and up to the Libyans. Despite the leader has no official -- he is not doing any executive -- he has no executive power in Libya. But anyway, for Libya and for any other countries, this is not for President Obama or Prime Minister Cameron to tell the Libyans to do what they want.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: Well, actually, there was the foreign minister there responding to President Obama's call with British Prime Minister David Cameron in the fact that these two leaders have said that Moammar Gadhafi should go. He said that is just meddling in the country's internal affairs and the country would not tolerate that.
This is a situation now where this government is really feeling the heat of internal pressure. And it has accelerated the mail tear campaign in the east ahead of a possibility of a no-fly zone. They're beginning to say that the international community is in a conspiracy against them to divide and partition the country.
CHETRY: All right, a lot of developments happening in Libya today. Our Nic Robertson in Tripoli. Thanks so much for that report.
HOLMES: We want to bring in our Christine Romans. We have been talking about the oil prices going up. But now we're starting to see the effects of just how we're spending our money now.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: You're looking according to car dealers and the auto industry, you're looking more to the fuel efficient models, to hybrids and electrics and gasoline demand is down a little bit as the higher prices mean you're trying to find ways to conserve. Trying to find ways to conserve, trying to use a little less gas. So fewer Americans filling up their tanks. According to a survey, gasoline demand down 1.8 percent over the past week.
What are you spending your money on? Well, it's just beginning, dealers say, but starting to show interest again in finding cheaper ways to drive if these fuel prices keep rising. When you look at hybrid car interest, sales increasing for the Prius, 69.9 percent from last February, Honda civic, 53 percent, Ford Fusion, 11 percent increase since last February.
You can definitely see you're going into these -- not necessarily because of gas prices, as well, but the more -- the broader availability and I guess more public acceptance of some of these cars. People are trying to find a way to spend their money a little better. When you look at these oil and gasoline prices, what can you do? It makes a difference of what you decide to drive and buy.
I haven't seen it yet, but I'm very closely watching for any kind of evidence that the retail prices for SUVs and less fuel-efficient cars, those used car prices can go down when you see prices like this. A lot of experts tell me that gas prices above $4, that's the magic number. When you see gasoline prices above $4 and staying above $4, that's when you really see consumer behavior begin to change. I want to show you a quick market check.
I want to show you a quick market check, because this is the second anniversary of the bull market, don't forget. The Dow yesterday was up 124 points. I want to remind you that two years ago today the Dow was at 6,547. Remember those days? It was terrifying. At the time, Warren Buffett the economy was falling off a cliff, and it was as close to the worst-case scenario we lived to. Some of the unbelievable move the stocks have made. Would you believe that apple shares are up 328 percent since then?
HOLMES: I would believe it. We'll see you here next hour.
CHETRY: And they're calling it the "flight to everywhere." Bad weather turned what was supposed to be a four-hour trip from Barbados to New York a grueling flight. They circled JFK, then instead of landing, ended up getting sent to Boston for refueling, landed on the tarmac there, sat, sat, sat, took off again for JFK, tried to land again, didn't work, tried to land a second time, didn't work.
Passengers say at one point they were within 100 feet of the runway, but then headed back up, were told they were going to Pittsburgh, but ended up in Philadelphia. That is where they finally landed in the city of brotherly love at 2:00 a.m. on Monday. They said there was little food and only one working bathroom that was then full. It was not pleasant at all.
We're going to talk live to one of the passengers on that flight trying to come back from a lovely vacation with her boyfriend and members of his rugby team, and she tells us what it was like.
HOLMES: We believe the vice president and his wife took a more direct route to Moscow. The vice president expected to take part in a signing ceremony for a major aircraft deal involving Boeing. The vice president will also meet with the Russian prime minister and the Russian president during his visit.
Taking a look at Fat Tuesday celebration in New Orleans yesterday, parades and parties marking the final day of Mardi Gras. Today, Ash Wednesday, is the beginning of Lent where many Christians fast or give something up for the 40 days until east. They got lucky yesterday, Mardi Gras was decent, but now bad weather coming through New Orleans.
Probably nothing would've stopped that party you would think. But they're wrapping up.
Also, they're wrapping up the space shuttle Discovery. It is about to land here in a few hours, and it will never take off again. Its final mission here. So what exactly is next? We're live at the Kennedy Space Center.
CHETRY: And are American Muslims being radicalized to the point it being a major concern and major national security threat? Well, we're going to talk with Congressman Peter King who is about to hold a controversial hearing on the issue. It's eight minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: All right, ten minutes past the hour on this "American Morning." And on this "American Morning," space shuttle Discovery is going to be coming home for the last time, final landing in a few hours from now.
CHETRY: It's bittersweet. Discovery has spent a total of 365 days in space, more time up there than any other fleet, any other shuttle in the fleet. And our John Zarrella is live where you're going to be witnessing history today. Pretty exciting for you and for everybody that's going to be out there, and also for all of us. There's only two more of these launches and landings and then the shuttle program is over.
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. That's it. Certainly coming -- this is emblematic of the fact that it really is coming to an end now, shuttle Discovery coming home later this morning. The six-member crew just started making preparations for the de-orbit burn that will come about an hour before they land at 11:57:44 eastern time here at the Kennedy Space Center.
You can see the weather here is spectacular today. That's looking really, really good. I want you to look at some spectacular video. This was shot on Discovery's liftoff. And a lot of these images were taken from cameras mounted on the solid rocket boosters, just phenomenal video.
As you mentioned, Discovery is the oldest of the shuttles in the fleet. This is its 39th trip to space wrapping up. It's flown 143 million miles. And we certainly expect huge crowds out here for the landing this morning and really does mark the beginning of the end.
A few months ago, I talked to Alvin Drew, mission specialist onboard shuttle Discovery. And he said, you know, down the road, there's going to be a nostalgia for these vehicles.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALVIN DREW, DISCOVERY ASTRONAUT: They're going to say, we had this hypersonic reentering lifting body out there that did all kinds of things. It had a robotic arm and now the things we're looking at aren't nearly as ambitious. Were we ever that audacious to go build spacecraft to do things like that? And I think we're going to look back and it's going to be as if it was something out of a science fiction movie.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZARRELLA: Here's some terrific pictures too of Discovery in orbit as it floats by the international space station, camera shots from the space station. You know, you want the shuttle program just to continue to look at these incredible images that they've been getting in recent years.
Now, I talked to Stephanie Stillson who for a decade has been in charge of getting discovery ready for each of her flights. And Stillson said, you know, it's going to be tough to say good-bye.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANIE STILLSON, DISCOVERY FLOW DIRECTOR: I somewhat liken it to now we're at a point where we're sending our kid off to college, right? We've taken care of these vehicles. We've loved them, put everything we have into them and it's time for us to let them go a little bit. So it's going to be difficult. It's going to be like losing a family member when we no longer had the ability to see them on a daily basis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZARRELLA: Stillson is going to be in charge of getting discovery and the other two orbiters ready for the next phase of their lives. It's going to take nine months to get all the hazardous materials cleaned up in the vehicles and make them basically museum ready.
Discovery is going to end up, we believe, at the Smithsonian. As far as Endeavor goes, it could end up right here at the Kennedy Space Center. Atlantis, which was used for department of defense missions, that one might go up to Dayton, Ohio. But NASA wants $28.8 million for each shuttle. And the facility that gets it has to provide a building that is absolutely perfectly temperature controlled for the vehicles. So we'll see where they end up.
CHETRY: Yes, it's a big competition. We understand 21 different venues are vying for this. Everybody wants it and has an argument for why it should be theirs. It'll be interesting to see what happens.
ZARRELLA: Yes.
CHETRY: All right, John Zarrella. We'll check in with you again throughout the day. Thanks so much.
HOLMES: Thanks, John.
ZARRELLA: Sure.
CHETRY: Coming up next, we're going to be talking live with New York Congressman Peter King about his hearing on the radicalization of American-Muslims stoking a lot of controversy. In fact, he's set to up his security.
HOLMES: Also this morning, you have heard it time and time again and you probably disobeyed it a time or two. They tell you turn off those electronic devices when it's time to take off. But, they don't explain why. There's a danger possibly. Any real risk? A new study looking for answers. We've got those answers for you.
It's a quarter past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Well, 18 minutes past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING. They are two of the most influential people in American politics, and chances are, you have no idea who they are.
CHETRY: Yes, but they have deep pockets and that's affecting the labor disputes. Jim Acosta is live in Washington with more for us this morning.
Hi, Jim.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, T.J. and Kiran. You're right. Most Americans have never heard of the Koch brothers, but with big budget battles looming here in Washington and also in places like Wisconsin, liberal activists are trying to change that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. SCOTT BROWN (R), MASSACHUSETTS: I'm in the cycle right now. We're already banging away
ACOSTA (voice-over): When Massachusetts Republican Senator Scott Brown made this fundraising appeal to billionaire and conservative activist David Koch, it was caught on tape by a liberal blogger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Your support during the election, it meant a ton. It made a difference and I can certainly use it again. Obviously, the --
KOCH: When are you running for the next term?
BROWN: 12.
KOCH: Oh, OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Weeks before that, another progressive blogger posed as Koch to make this prank phone call to Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R), WISCONSIN: Hi, this is Scott Walker.
DAVID KOCH: Scott, David Koch. How are you?
WALKER: Hi, David. I'm good, and yourself?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Democratic activists see a curtain being pulled back, revealing one of the most powerful and mysterious forces in politics.
SOPHIE KORN, LIBERAL ACTIVIST: The Koch brothers have been able to operate in secrecy and use vast amounts of their personal wealth to control our democracy.
ACOSTA: Two of the world's richest billionaires, David Koch and his brother Charles, control Koch Industries, a global energy and manufacturing giant with products ranging from petroleum to paper cups. They've used that wealth to back conservative causes aimed at shrinking the size of government.
DAVE LEVINTHAL, CENTER FOR RESPONSIVE POLITICS: Campaign contributions, lobbying, the funding of political groups or the funding of nonprofit groups.
ACOSTA (on camera): They seem to be doing it all?
LEVINTHAL: They seem to be doing it all because they have the ability to do it all.
ACOSTA (voice-over): Candidate contributions from the Koch's political action committee have soared since 2006 to more than $4 million, more than 80 percent going to Republicans. David Koch also helped create Americans for Prosperity, a major backer of Tea Party events across the country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) NARRATOR: Who decides Wisconsin's future? Voters or government unions?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: The group has joined the budget fight in Wisconsin, taking sides with Scott Walker, who received $43,000 from Koch Industries in his 2010 race for governor.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: And the Kochs are busy when it comes to state politics. The family has also given money, $22,000 to Ohio's governor, John Kasich. One thing we can say about the Kochs, they rarely do interviews. Both Koch Industries and Americans for Prosperity did not return our request for comments on this story. Still, the Koch brothers have their defenders who say the brothers do donate money to a variety of causes and give a small portion of their contributions to Democrats -- T.J. and Kiran.
CHETRY: Interesting look. Thanks so much, Jim.
HOLMES: Thanks, Jim.
ACOSTA: You bet.
HOLMES: Ahead on this AMERICAN MORNING, we will be talking live with the man that everybody seems to be talking about. Congressman Peter King on his hearings on the, quote, "radicalization of American- Muslims." He's coming up.
It's 21 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Families who've lived through the devastating impact of bullying know that it's not just a part of growing up. It's been in the spotlight for some time now. We've talked about it a lot here on AMERICAN MORNING. And today, the White House is getting involved. President Obama and the first lady releasing a new public service announcement that you can see exclusively right now here on AMERICAN MORNING. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: For a long time, bullying was treated as an avoidable part of growing up. But more and more, we're seeing how harmful it can be for our kids, especially when it follows them from their school to their phone, to their computer screen.
MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: That's why we're holding this summit. And that's why we're asking you whether you're a student, a teacher, a coach, or parent to join us.
B. OBAMA: You can participate in the conversation -- (END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: President Obama will also hold a summit on the issue today. That's what the first lady was referring to. If you want to check out more, you can participate by visiting stopbullying.gov.
HOLMES: I want to turn now to the tensions that are building over a high-profile and a highly controversial hearing set for Washington, D.C., tomorrow. It's called "the radicalization in the American- Muslim community and that community's response." This was organized by New York Republican Congressman Peter King. Critics are saying this is essentially a witch hunt. Some even comparing the congressman to Joe McCarthy's anti-communist hearings back in the 1950s. Congressman King is chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee. He is joining us now from Capitol Hill.
Sir, good morning. Thank you for being with us. You're a pretty popular or unpopular guy depending on how you want to look at it these days. So you tell us and for the American people who have been following this. What do you want Americans to get out of your hearings and learn that you think they don't already know?
REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: I want them to realize the extent to which Al Qaeda is attempting to radicalize within the Muslim-American community. I want to determine the extent to which the radicalization is taking place, the extent to which Muslim leaders are cooperating and trying to stop that radicalization. And I also want to encourage people in the Muslim community, I think to be more aggressive in choosing their leaders. I don't think the leadership right now, the groups such as CAIR are doing an adequate job. I think in some ways doing a very poor job of representing the Muslim-American community.
What I'm saying, by the way, as far as the radicalization of this community, this is what the administration has said, the Democratic administration. The other night, Denis McDonough gave a speech where he said that Al Qaeda, and I agree with this, has now changed its tactics and it's attempting to radicalize within the Muslim-American community. And we've seen the evidence of that. A number of attempted attacks which could have killed hundreds, thousands of people have been carried out in the last several years by people who were radicalized in this country, living here legally, but radicalized by Al Qaeda. The New York City subway bomber, Times Square bomber and others.
HOLMES: I think no doubt people -- many -- Congressman, many people agree with that, that it is happening. We have seen plenty of cases of it. I guess people disagree with how you're going about it and how it's going to come across.
So tell them bluntly right now. Is there something you're saying about the Muslim community itself and their lack of response to this radicalization? Or are you saying there is something about Islam and the religion itself? Something about its teachings and its tenets that are leading to this radicalization?
KING: No, I would never question anyone's religious beliefs. You'll not hear a word from me about the Koran or any of those issues. Muslims are a proud people. They have a very proud religion. I'm not questioning that at all. But what I am saying is that there are people in the community who are not fully cooperating and I'm saying that the victims of that are not just the American community at large, but also Muslim-Americans in particular. And my witnesses tomorrow, two of them will be Muslim-Americans, one will be an African-American, whose son was radicalized and converted to Islam. And they will describe the situation in their community, how the radicalization is going on and how when they went to officials, when they went to imams, they were threatened. They were told not to be made --
HOLMES: But, Congressman --
KING: Yes.
HOLMES: On that point, the people you are bringing in, those witnesses. You're bringing a couple of people who, I guess, they support your argument that it didn't happen. And their cases, someone in their family was radicalized. But you're not bringing in people from the other side where cooperation did take place. Those cases -- so can you really give Americans an accurate picture of what's going on if you have people representing the side that you believe is actually taking place?
KING: Well, I'm bringing -- I believe people who are on the ground, people reflect what's happening. And I'll tell you in my conversations, I've been dealing with this issue now for 9 1/2 years. Law enforcement people and (INAUDIBLE) will tell me they do not receive the cooperation that they need. I've seen it on Long Island in my own district. I know what is happening in some of these mosques. And you will hear, these are people on the ground. These people living in the -- living there. They're the ones who endure this day in and day out. And to me, it's going to set a very good picture for the American people. The Democrats want to bring on their witness. That's fine. I'm having -- I'm also inviting Congressman Keith Ellison who disagrees with me completely on this issue. I've invited him to testify.
HOLMES: Well, sir, do you believe, and you said in an answer to a question, I believe it was CBS, that you don't think that a patriotic Muslim is going to refuse to cooperate with authorities based on your hearings. Do you think generally speaking that Muslims in this country are not patriotic enough?
KING: No, I would say the overwhelming majority of Muslims are outstanding patriots. Obviously, there's a very small percentage who have allied themselves with Al Qaeda. And there's others, for instance, there was a Pew poll several years ago saying that 15 percent of young Muslim men could support suicide bombing.
This is a fertile ground for Al Qaeda to recruit in. But no, there's no doubt that overwhelmingly the Muslim-American community is a tremendous asset to our country. They are a part of the American mosaic. I have -- I am proud to work with Muslims. I meet with Muslims on a regular basis, but the reality is there's a threat now coming from certain elements within that community. And that's what the purpose of this investigation is.
HOLMES: But as you believe, as you know, sir, people question maybe you might not be the right one to raise the questions because you've said in the past that you believe that possibly 80 percent of the mosques in this country are headed by a radical imam? Do you still believe that? And what do you base that on?
KING: I made that statement back in 2004 during an interview. I was basing it on testimony by (INAUDIBLE), a national Muslim leader who had been testifying at a Clinton State Department hearing back in 1999. And at that time he said that he thought that over 80 percent of the mosques in this country were controlled by radical imams.
HOLMES: Do you believe it?
KING: I don't know what the number is today. That quote was back in 2004. I have no reason to doubt Sheik (INAUDIBLE) at that time that he was, again a very respected Muslim leader. But also he was making the point that these imam do not reflect the Muslim community, the ones he was talking about. And the point is the overwhelming majority of Muslim-Americans themselves are very good outstanding people.
HOLMES: Well, sir, we're going to have to leave it there, unfortunately. But there's a lot of interest. And it's important, I believe, to hear you say that. People here, you think that most Muslims are patriots here. But again, a lot of people are going to be watching closely tomorrow. Representative King, we appreciate your time this morning. We'll follow up with you.
KING: Thank you.
CHETRY: All right. Checking our other top stories.
Severe weather across the south and southeast this morning. Tornado warnings are up this morning in the New Orleans area. There are also reports of twisters touching down in Louisiana and Mississippi. Our Rob Marciano's following all that. We're going to check in with him a little later.
HOLMES: Also, the Tucson shooting suspect back in court today, now officially an accused killer, if you will. He's going to be arraigned on additional charges. Altogether 49 charges related to that mass shooting that killed six people and wounding 13 others including Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords.
CHETRY: And if the weather is right, in just a few hours, space shuttle "Discovery" will return to earth for the very last time. If Discovery lands today, it'll have spent a record of 365 days in space, and there are only two more shuttle launches left for NASA.
HOLMES: Well, anybody out there who has flown on something other than the shuttle, you know, a plane, they always tell you turn off those electronic devices before you take off. You don't necessarily get an explanation of why. What is the risks if you try to make one more quick cell phone calls? Send one more text message. Well, there's a new report out there that takes a look at the issue of the electronics and the potential flight problems.
Jeanne Meserve live for us in Washington. Jeanne, everybody curious here. We never get a real explanation for why we shouldn't do it. We're just told not to do it.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: And a lot of people get angry about it. Because a lot of us do rely on those portable electronic devices to help us get our work done, to stay in touch with friends, to keep on top of the news. And if you get unhappy about it, you should know there is a reason.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys with me? All right. So give me a stomp, clap, stomp, clap. Come on.
MESERVE (voice-over): Southwest rapping flight attendant got passengers to perk up and listen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Before we leave, our advice is put away your electronic devices.
MESERVE: But on the average flight, a lot of us tune out that safety instruction.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At this time, turn off all electronic devices.
MESERVE: Now listen up, a new study cites 75 instances since 2003 where personal electronic devices may have interfered with the communication, navigation, or surveillance systems of a plane in- flight.
DAVID CARSON, BEING ENGINEER: If that interference happens at the wrong time, then it can be a threat to the aircraft and safe operation.
MESERVE: It is impossible to say conclusively that electronic devices were to blame, but they have been implicated in malfunctions of an auto-pilot, rudders, GPS, and more. The Federal Aviation Administration forbids any electronics during takeoff and landing and at altitudes less than 10,000 feet. Above that, airlines must demonstrate devices are safe before the FAA will authorize their use. With new portable devices being introduced at a dizzying pace, it's hard to sort out what can be used and when.
CARSON: I was on a flight one time and the person next to me got out their electronic reader book and just after the announcement was made to turn off all electronic devices. And I asked why did you take it out just after the flight attendant said turn them off? And this passenger said, well, this isn't an electronic device.
MESERVE: The best guide, listen to the flight attendant.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We ask you turn it off now.
MESERVE: But you can't do that if you're talking on your phone. VEDA SHOOK, ASSOCIATION OF FLIGHT ATTENDANTS: People want to say good-bye to their loved ones. We get that. But there's a time and place for it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: You might wonder why the use of some devices is forbidden below 10,000 feet but allowed above that altitude. Well, experts feel if pilots have a problem higher up, they'll have time to find it and fix it. T.J., back to you.
HOLMES: All right. Well, I'd love to say mystery solved, but we still need some more research clearly. Jeanne Meserve, we appreciate you.
MESERVE: You bet.
CHETRY: Well, fighting is raging this morning for control of Libyan cities. And now leader Moammar Gadhafi says that he will fight western nations if they try to impose a no-fly zone over the country. We're going to be speaking up next with former ambassador Nicholas Burns, what are the options for Libya and for other countries as the calls for a no-fly zone grow louder.
35 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: 38 minutes past the hour on this "American Morning." Somali pirates once again targeting the "Maersk Alabama." You remember the name of that ship. Well, officials say the "Alabama" was approached by four pirates on a small boat with a ladder. The ship's captain fired some warning shots, pirates eventually took off. And again the "Maersk Alabama," you remember that name, this is the third time pirates have targeted the "Maersk Alabama." In '09 they hijacked the ship and kidnapped its captain before being killed by Navy snipers.
CHETRY: Well, Moammar Gadhafi remaining defiant amid international pressure to stop the crackdown of opposition in his country. Gadhafi told reporters from Turkish state TV last night that the Libyan people will take up arms and fight against western powers if they try to enforce a no-fly zone over their country. Now this comes just hours before Libya's deputy foreign minister told CNN that a no-fly zone would amount to an act of war.
Former undersecretary of state Nicholas Burns joins us this morning with more on this situation. So we're hearing Gadhafi ratchet up the pressure this morning. But what are his options right now in your estimation?
NICHOLAS BURNS, FORMER UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE: I think Gadhafi's in a very difficult situation. You know, he's lost the eastern part of his country. There's a rebel army advancing slowly, but surely on Tripoli. His back is to the wall. He's promised, you know, to stay until the last man to defend his regime. It's a difficult situation for him but also a complex and difficult dilemma for the United States and President Obama because this is a civil war in Libya.
It's very violent, it's not our civil war, and we don't know the rebel army, we don't know the commanders well. We don't have their cell phone numbers, we don't know what kind of government they would impose on Libya should they succeed in dislodging Gadhafi.
So the dilemma for the United States is we ought to avoid a third land war in the greater Middle East. But on the other hand, there is a humanitarian imperative. Gadhafi is using violence against his own people. If we can deploy our naval and air assets, at least to rush food and medical aid to people in the eastern part of Libya. If we can use that force to intimidate Gadhafi, not by invading, but by threatening, that might be something that the United States and the European leaders should agree to this week.
CHETRY: OK. So a couple of questions. I mean, we're making the distinction between western powers versus the United States. Obviously this would not be something we would take on unilaterally even if it was just the humanitarian aspect, correct?
BURNS: Correct. The NATO alliance is going to be the vehicle for any kind of intervention by the United States. It has to because Italy and France and Spain have real interests, historical economic political interests in Libya itself. We should not want to go alone. We should, I think at all costs avoid a land invasion of Libya. Because we simply cannot afford that right now given our obligations in Iraq and Afghanistan.
CHETRY: Right. I also want to touch on what you brought up again. We don't really know what this opposition force is or would be. Do we have any clearer of a picture of what the goals are where - where they would be getting their support. And right now where they're getting their arms to be able to actually fight against this regime?
BURNS: You know, I don't think we know them very well at all. This army - this rebel army materialized just in the last two weeks when the peaceful protests were put down by Gadhafi, people took up arms. And so they're obviously fighting to dislodge this government, the government of Gadhafi, which is the right thing to do. But we can't know for sure who these people are. There seems to be very little integration among the various rebel forces. They don't have a common platform that you can understand as to how they will governed, should they succeed in dislodging him.
So we've got to be very careful here. And I think you're seeing the president approach this in a very cautious way. I think that's the right decision because we don't want to get dragged into another war from which when we cannot extricate ourselves. But there are things we can do, and I think positioning our naval and air assets again, to be in a position, to rush humanitarian aid to the refugee population, perhaps to block arm shipments to the Gadhafi regime from the sea and air. That would be something that we could do that might help to end this civil war more quickly.
CHETRY: And it's interesting because there has - there have been some varying analyses of whether or not the no-fly zone is really the end- all be-all that Gadhafi, of course, has ground forces. He has his mercenary army that can take out people on the ground. And short of any western NATO, U.N. whatever influence going actually into the country that we have very little control over some of the carnage. How important is the no-fly zone versus some other options that he has on the table to continue to fight this resistance?
BURNS: If NATO could impose a no-fly zone over Libya, that would certainly make it much more difficult for Gadhafi to prosecute this war against the rebels and his own citizens. He couldn't use his air power. But as Secretary Gates said last week, the way we would have to do that would be to knock out their radar sites, their surface to air missile sites, we would become a protagonist in this war. We would essentially be taking sides in a civil war.
And the other complication is that NATO operates by consensus. All 28 countries have to agree. And at least right now Turkey and Germany seem to be very cool on this idea. Could you get a security council resolution in New York to give it credibility? Well, China and Russia might veto it. So it may be a situation like Kosovo in 1999 where the United States and a few other countries, NATO, perhaps, if it can be unified, would have to act without a security council authorization even if NATO is united. There's all sorts of political impediments the world is not united. The Arab league hasn't spoken on behalf of a no-flight zone. But the gulf cooperation council, the gulf states have.
CHETRY: Right.
BURNS: So a very complex, confused, political situation right now for the president.
CHETRY: Strategically for the United States, how important is Libya?
BURNS: I think you have to say - you look at this whole map of the Middle East and what's been happening in the last two months, Egypt's vital, Saudi Arabia's vital, Libya, I wouldn't say that Libya on its own is vital. What's important to us here, I think, is the humanitarian imperative. There are people suffering in Libya because of the brutal and cynical actions of the Gadhafi regime. That's our interest, but that shouldn't drag us into a land war. It shouldn't make us a participant in this war. We've got to be cautious about using our power selectively to help individuals, to help the citizens of Libya, but not to become part of the civil war itself.
CHETRY: Tricky balances as we've learned from past situations. Nicholas burns, former undersecretary of state, now professor at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government.
Thanks for joining us this morning.
BURNS: Thanks very much.
HOLMES: Well, we have dangerous weather to tell you about this morning. Right now, tornado warnings in place in parts of the country, also severe flood danger. Rob Marciano will join us next, a quarter of the top of the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Well, getting close to the top of the hour here. This gives you just an idea of what's happening in some places, in some parts of the country right now. Some dangerous weather moving in. This is New Orleans, a particular tower cam, some video we rolled on just a short time ago. But a wall of rain moving in, some ominous-looking clouds rolling into New Orleans and that's not the only place.
CHETRY: No, we're dealing with this issue in many parts of the south. Rob Marciano's been following it all for us on radar. And we have a chance to see exactly what's going on where these systems are moving through.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HOLMES: Your top stories coming up in just a few minutes. Also, something of interest this morning that NFL players, how will they survive? Many getting ready to go without jobs and paychecks. Just in case the NFL is putting out a player lockout survival guide. The Players Association putting this out. One of the recommendations, you may want to get rid of that personal shopper and the stylist.
CHETRY: Good tips.
Hey, it was a flight to everywhere. We're going to speak to a passenger who was stuck on a plane circling for 12 hours -- well, flying in circles for 12 hours, I guess you could say -- up and down the East Coast, including refueling stops and three different aborted landings. Everybody started getting hungry and then they started to get mad.
HOLMES: Also, shuttle Discovery about to make its final landing. It's coming up a little later this morning. We will tell you where its actual next destination might be, though. We're going to be talking to, as well, a NASA astronaut who flew on that shuttle.
It's about nine minutes to the top of the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Fifty-four minutes past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING. Imagine this. You're about to get a liver transplant and then the state takes away money to actually pay for it.
Well, cash-strapped Arizona has cut funding for nearly a hundred critically ill patients waiting for organ transplants. The critics say the decision has already cost two people their lives. But, the governor there, Jan Brewer, and many state lawmakers say they just don't have the money to continue what they call Cadillac-style health care coverage.
Our Casey Wian with the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just putting on shoes could be exhausting for 58-year-old Michael Pennington.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nice, deep breath.
WIAN: He contracted Hepatitis C from a childhood blood transfusion. Recently his health has deteriorated and he needs a liver transplant to survive.
MICHAEL PENNINGTON, NEEDS LIVER TRANSPLANT: It's a crap shoot.
WIAN: His insurance expired leaving Pennington and his wife Debra wiped out financially. Three years ago they had enrolled in Access, Arizona's version of Medicaid. It would pay for a transplant. Now he has risen to number three on the liver waiting list but the state will no longer pay for the operation.
PENNINGTON: I've paid taxes all my working life here and I guess I get a little bit irritated.
WIAN: Pennington is one of 96 potential organic transplant patients in Arizona who now must scramble to raise their own money.
GOV. JAN BREWER (R), ARIZONA: Arizona just simply does not have any available funds and we all know that our Access program is far more generous than a lot of the states surrounding us.
WIAN: Arizona lawmakers considered restoring funding for Medicaid transplants but they ultimately decided against it, mainly because they concluded that many transplants have a low rate of success.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got a heart in June 14th of '06 and I'm doing fantastic.
WIAN: But these transplant survivors say lawmakers are relying on faulty data.
ANNA TOVAR, TRANSPLANT SURVIVOR: I would not be standing here if it wasn't for my two transplants.
WIAN: Anna Tovar is both a survivor and a state lawmaker.
TOVAR: Change needs to happen now and we cannot afford for another person's life to vanish.
WIAN: The Pennington's are fortunate that Medicare has agreed to cover 80 percent of Michael's procedure, but they still need to come up with more than $100,000 on their own.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'll do whatever it takes to save this man. I'm sorry.
WIAN: The concern now is that with the steady deterioration of his health, it may already be too late for Michael.
Casey Wian, CNN, Phoenix.
(END VIDEOTAPE) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
