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American Morning
Loughner Can Refuse Medication; Debt Ceiling Talks; Debt Deal Stalemate; Prime Minister Blasts News Corp
Aired July 13, 2011 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: A controversial clinic offering counseling to gay clients offering to make them straight. A promising miracles it can change someone's sexual orientation. Guess what, the clinic is owned and operated by presidential candidate, Michele Bachmann, and her husband. We're about to take you inside Bachmann and associates on this AMERICAN MORNING.
Good morning. It is Wednesday, July 13th. You are watching AMERICAN MORNING. I'm Ali Velshi.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Kiran Chetry. Christine is off today. We have a lot going on this morning, especially as it relates to the debt talks. A lot of rhetoric now, a lot (ph) of progress.
VELSHI: But some new urgency, President Obama warning of dire consequences for Social Security checks if the government defaults on its debts. We're now just 21 days away from the August 2nd deadline to avoid a default. President Obama and Congressional leaders from both parties will meet once again at the White House this afternoon. The president says without a deal, he can't guarantee the 27 million Social Security benefit checks will go out next month.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: -- President Obama warning of dire consequences for Social Security checks if the government defaults on its debts. We're now just 21 days away from the August 2nd deadline to avoid a default. President Obama and Congressional leaders from both parties will meet once again at the White House this afternoon. The president says without a deal he can't guarantee the 27 million Social Security benefit checks will go out next month.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: So Republicans say that's a scare tactic, and meantime the Senate's top Republican Mitch McConnell announced a backup plan of sorts that would give the president unilateral power to raise the debt ceiling in order to prevent a default, but that would come with conditions to cut spending. The plan crashed and burned within his own party.
Reaction from both sides to the impasse suggests the debt talks still have a long way to go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN BOEHNER, (R) HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: The president talks a good game, but when it comes time to actually putting these issues on the table, making decisions, he can't quite pull the trigger.
REP. CHUCK SCHUMER, (D) NEW YORK: Protect millionaires and cut Medicare benefits instead. This approach is not balanced, it's not fair, it's not moral, and it will not be accepted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: CNN's Dan Lothian is watching the partisan warfare over the debt crisis. He's live at the White House this morning. Dan, I mean, it's a slow-moving discussion. I am assuming there is a lot going on behind the scenes because these guys are not meeting again. They did not meet until yesterday afternoon. Now they're meeting at 4:00 this afternoon. Obviously there's more going on?
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: There is more going on. And you know, during the press briefing yesterday I was asking Jay Carney whether or not the rhetoric we're hearing from Republicans is matching the tone inside the room, and he seemed to indicate that the tone was much more different than the rhetoric.
But nonetheless, today is feeling much like yesterday and the day before, the fourth time now that these Congressional leaders are meeting. And after yesterday's nearly two-hour meeting, one Democratic source said that the mood was "weary" as those in the room grew tired of people presenting their talking points.
The sticking point still remains. Tax hikes -- Democrats say you need the tax hikes on the wealthy in order to get revenue, Republicans saying that it's a nonstarter. And the president is pushing for the biggest deal possible even as he's painting a grim picture of the consequences if a deal isn't done.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell the folks at home that no matter what happens the Social Security checks will go out on August the 3rd? There are about $20 billion worth of Social Security checks that have to go out the day after the government is supposedly going to go into default. BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is not just a matter of Social Security checks. These are veteran checks. These are folks on disability and their checks. There are about 70 million checks that go out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you guarantee as president those checks will go out on August the 3rd?
OBAMA: I cannot guarantee that those checks go out on August 3rd if we haven't resolved this issue because there may simply not be the money in the coffers to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LOTHIAN: Ali, as you know, this backup plan now from Senator Mitch McConnell is emerging, essentially giving the president the power to raise the debt ceiling in three increments before the 2012 elections. But that's controversial within his own party and it's uncertain if that could actually work.
But reacting here at the White House, White House Spokesman Jay Carney saying, quote, "Senator McConnell's proposal reaffirmed what leaders of both parties have stated clearly, that defaulting on America's past due bills is not an option. It is time for our leaders to find common ground and reduce our deficit in a way that will strengthen our economy."
And there's pressure coming as well from the business community. They sent a letter to not only the president but lawmakers asking them to find some kind of bipartisan agreement to put aside their differences in order to do what's right for the country, Ali.
VELSHI: Interesting, because the chamber of commerce typically takes sides with the Republicans on most things, one of the signatories to that letter.
CHETRY: All right. And also, is that just dead, that McConnell idea? Is that dead in the water, or is this a possibility? Is there a way around this, you know, stalemate?
LOTHIAN: Look, I don't think anyone here at this point is saying that it's dead in the water. No doubt that will be part of the conversations today. But as I pointed out, I mean, even Republicans, some Republicans are saying that this is just Senator McConnell giving in to pressure from the White House.
So there's a lot of heat within his own party. It's uncertain whether this can move forward but it will be part of the discussions.
CHETRY: Dan Lothian, for us, thank you.
VELSHI: And for more information about the debt ceiling debate and all things political logon to CNNpolitics.com.
CHETRY: More trouble for Rodney King. He's busted on DUI charges in southern California, pulled over yesterday and arrested after police say they witnessed him committing several traffic violations. King has admitted to a long-standing drinking problem. He made national headlines back in 1991 when he was beaten by four police officers, that beating caught on videotape. The officers arrested, but they were acquitted in 1992. That triggered a riot in Los Angeles that lasted for four days and left 55 people dead.
VELSHI: Wow. Tucson shooting suspect Jared Lee Loughner can refuse to take his anti-psychotic medications. That's the ruling of a federal appeals panel. They say because Loughner has not been convicted of a crime he's entitled to deny treatment. Loughner is charged with killing six people and wounding Arizona Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords during a shooting rampage in Tucson in January.
CHETRY: New pictures of dozens of weapons seized from a California apartment where alleged crime boss James "Whitey" Bulger lived for the last 15 years. FBI agents say they found several handguns as well as an automatic rifle, even a hand grenade. Some of the weapons were reportedly recovered hidden behind the living room and bathroom walls.
VELSHI: Some chilling home movies released showing just how close police came to saving Jaycee Dugard before they actually did. She was kidnapped and held captive by convicted sex offender Philip Garrido for 18 years. She had two of his children.
The El Dorado district attorney's office has now released these tapes. What they show is a parole officer, the guy in the striped shirt, going through the Garrido home sometime between 2000 and 2007, all the while talking with Garrido and his wife, and missing Jaycee, who was being held prisoner 30 feet away in the backyard. Here's a clip where the officer finds a locked door. It was where Garrido's ailing mother was sleeping.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's been sleeping in there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, why is this door locked? Can you move that out and open the door.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's convalescing. We use this bathroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. And this door right here?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's where we sleep.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you turn the light on?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: There are also videos shot over 20 years ago of the Garridos videotaping children in public places. One shows Philip Garrido singing and playing the guitar while Nancy films children around him.
Jaycee Dugard was kidnapped in 1999. She was found -- there she is -- she was found 18 years later. This is her a few days ago on ABC news. The Garridos were charged and convicted of kidnapping and rape. Both of them are now in prison for life. Jaycee is now out with a book talking about her life in captivity, and it's called "A Stolen Life."
CHETRY: Right now a massive and dangerous heat wave gripping much of the nation. Here's how it looks and feels -- 12 states right now under heat advisories. There you see it. Temperatures expected to reach 104 degrees in parts of Texas today. In the southeast the mercury expected to reach the upper 90s.
VELSHI: It's more than just uncomfortable out there. The heat is causing drought conditions in the deep south which have been going on for some time to intensify. Also this morning, hundreds of thousands of people still without power in the Chicago area. Strong thunderstorms rolled through earlier this week. Officials warned the power might not be back until Saturday.
CHETRY: Right, so areas like the northeast, parts of the mid-Atlantic states, we've seen it cool a little this morning. But in a lot of areas including piedmont park in Atlanta where Rob is, they're bracing to wake up to another day of oppressive heat. Hey, Rob.
ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hey, guys. Yes, the south isn't really going to see much of a relief. We're not going to get that cold front or the cool front, the drier air that moved through the northeast in places like Chicago the past couple of days. This time of year it's tough to have that happen.
The deal with this heat wave has been the amount of humidity. We have had a few record highs, but just a handful. A lot of them stretch to the northeast.
Take a look at some of the numbers here from Islip all the way back to Arkansas. These are where temperatures were yesterday at their high point. Ft. Smith again well up and over the century mark. This doesn't include humidity. Remember these are measured in the shade. And 108 there at Kennedy at the airport, 98 degrees, Newark had a similar number as well.
We have shrunk the number of states under heat warnings and advisories today. That's the good news. The bad news is the same states that have been enduring this heat for not just one, not just two, but in many cases three weeks still have it. Oklahoma -- Oklahoma City has seen 100 or better the past 18 of 20 days. That is no release. Memphis in it as well and the Carolinas too.
Here are the actual high temperatures. Those are -- that couples humidity, what it will feel like over 110 spots, the actual high temperature will be 102 today in Dallas, 97 degrees expected in Atlanta, 97 in Jacksonville.
A quick check on the national forecast map. The cooler air, you want cool go to the northwest where it will be, and that cool front sliding across the northeast will give you some levels of comfort, but that's about it.
The other issue with this heat wave guys, especially in places like Dallas and here in Atlanta, when you get that sort of heat this time of year, you get the buildup of ozone and pollutants to the city, air quality is bad.
So here at piedmont Park there have been a few folks exercising. This is the time of day where those boot camps get out here. But we haven't seen as many as you normally see. So folks certainly taking their exercise indoors if they can. Back to you.
CHETRY: You can't keep up your normal routine in this type of weather. You just have to think a little bit so you don't get sick. Thanks, Rob.
VELSHI: Still to come this morning, a provocative question. Should parents of obese children lose custody of their kids? Find out why a commentary in one of the nation's most distinguished medical journals says yes.
CHETRY: And it's going to cost you a lot more to watch a movie at home. Netflix changing some pricing. We'll have more on that.
VELSHI: And CNN investigates a clinic in Minnesota that councils gay patients about becoming straight. It's owned by Republican presidential candidate Michele Bachmann. Inside Bachmann and associates next. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING. It is 11 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING. A former client says a clinic outside of Minneapolis promised him a miracle that would change him from gay to straight.
VELSHI: That clinic, Bachmann and Associates, is owned by Republican presidential candidate Michele Bachmann and her husband, the leader counselor, is her husband, Marcus.
CHETRY: Jim Acosta has been taking a closer look at the Bachmann family business, and he joins us live this morning from Washington. She's been asked about this a few times of late and has not really responded to exactly what was going on there.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Kiran. Michele Bachmann and her husband Marcus run a Christian counseling service that appears to believe gays and lesbians can change their sexual orientation through a religious-based therapy. It's just one of the couple's controversial beliefs on the issue of homosexuality.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. MICHELE BACHMANN, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hi, everybody.
ACOSTA: In her campaign for president, Michele Bachmann touts her background as a small business owner.
BACHMANN: As a mom of five, a foster parent, and a former tax lawyer and now a small business job creator -- ACOSTA: That business is Bachmann and Associates, a Christian counseling service outside Minneapolis run by her husband, Marcus. They're both pictured on the clinic's website.
In recent years the clinic has faced accusations that it encourages gay and lesbian patients to change their sexual orientation, a practice that is frowned upon by mental health experts. Back in 2004 Andrew Ramirez at the urging of his mother turned to Bachmann and Associates to talk about his own homosexuality. The 17-year-old said he was skeptical of what one of the clinic's counselors told him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was therapy that would help me change from being homosexual to straight.
ACOSTA (on camera): That's how he described it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
ACOSTA: He basically said if you do this, what? You wouldn't be gay anymore?
RAMIREZ: If I did this and worked his therapy program, that could perform a miracle and I could no longer be gay.
ACOSTA (voice-over): Ramirez says he was assigned a therapy program consisting of prayer and reading Bible passages. He also says he was told he would be mentored by an ex-lesbian minister. And if none of that worked, Ramirez says the counselor had another idea.
(on camera): He suggested to you what?
RAMIREZ: Not acting out on my same-sex attractions and living a life of celibacy.
ACOSTA: That was an alternative to being gay.
RAMIREZ: Right.
ACOSTA (voice-over): After the second session, Ramirez told his mother he wanted to stop.
BETH SHELLENBARGER, PATIENT'S MOTHER: And I could just hear his voice quivering. I just said, you know, if you're good with being gay I am, too.
ACOSTA: The American psychological association is sharply critical of what's known in the mental health community as reparative therapy, saying in a recent report, "There is insufficient evidence to support the use of psychological interventions to change sexual orientation.
But in talk radio interview last year, Marcus Bachmann compared gay teenagers to barbarians who must be disciplined.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
INTERVIEWER: What do you say when the teenager says she's gay? What do you say to Christian parents who come up with this?
MARCUS BACHMANN, REP. MICHELE BACHMANN'S HUSBAND: Well, I think you clearly say, what is the understanding of God's word on homosexuality, and I think that -- this is no mystery that a child or pre-adolescent, particularly adolescent, will question and wonder certainly. There is that curiosity, but again, we, like, you know, it is as if we have to understand barbarians need to be educated. They need to be disciplined. And just because someone feels it or thinks it, doesn't mean that we're supposed to go down that road.
ACOSTA: Back in 2006, Bachmann denied his practice engaged in reparative therapy, telling a Minneapolis newspaper, "That's a false statement," and went on to say, "If someone's interested in talking to us about their homosexuality, we are open to talking about that. But if someone comes in a homosexual and they want to stay homosexual, I don't have a problem with that."
UNDERCOVER ACTIVIST: What would you suggest to me like a treatment plan type of thing?
COUNSELOR: You can definitely pray.
ACOSTA: This week, a gay rights group Truth Wins Out released its own hidden camera video recorded by one of its activists who posed as a patient at Bachmann & Associates.
UNDERCOVER ACTIVIST: You can actually leave homosexuality completely and become heterosexual?
COUNSELOR: Oh, yes, definitely, I believe -- all about that. And it's happened before, it really has.
ACOSTA: In the full five sessions of footage captured by Truth Wins Out, while the counselor at times suggested homosexuality can be treated at the clinic, he also concedes he's not an expert on the subject.
Michele Bachmann has a long history of controversial views on homosexuality. She recently signed a pledge to defend marriage that compared same-sex couples to polygamist, as a comparison Bachmann made as a state lawmaker in 2004 when she called for an amendment to block gay marriages in other states from being recognized in Minnesota.
REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If we allow this to happen, group marriage, polygamy and things much worse may not be far behind.
ACOSTA: Both Bachmanns declined our requests for interviews. Her campaign released a statement to CNN that says, "The Bachmanns are in no position ethically, legally or morally to discuss specific courses of treatment concerning the clinic's patients."
A local TV station in Iowa tried to ask Bachmann whether her family clinic engages in reparative therapy, she dodged the question.
TV ANCHOR: Is it something that is conducted at that center? M. BACHMANN: Well, I'm running for the presidency of the United States and I'm here today to talk about job creation and also the fact that we do have a business that deals with job creation. We're very proud of the business that we've created.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: The latest polls show Bachmann has a serious shot at winning the Iowa caucuses where social conservatives will be a decisive factor and who just might consider the Bachmann Christian counseling center a political asset -- Kiran and Ali.
VELSHI: Interesting. Interesting point to close on because it -- she clearly hasn't answered that question and, as you said, she hasn't answered it a couple times. And to some people, that might just be perfect.
Jim, great reporting. Thank you.
ACOSTA: Thank you.
KIRAN: Ahead on AMERICAN MORNING: secret CIA terror interrogations going on overseas. Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon with details about the covert war against al Qaeda going on right now.
VELSHI: It's 20 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Twenty-three minutes after the hour. Minding your business this morning.
Markets ended the day lower yesterday. The Dow dropped 59 points, the NASDAQ closed down six, the S&P 500 fell 21. Stocks erased earlier gains after Moody's slashed Ireland's credit rating to junk in the afternoon.
Uncertainty over debt problems in Europe has investors on edge this morning. All eyes on Italy as top lawmakers there go head to head over budget cuts to ease Euro Zone concerns. The extent of U.S. exposure to debt problems in European countries remains unclear.
Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke is in for a grilling today on Capitol Hill. The nation's debt ceiling, European debt fears and the future of the U.S. economy all fair game from questions from House Financial Services Committee members. That testimony begins at 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time.
And investors are rushing to gold on fears of a weak dollar. That's after the Fed released details from a meeting last month saying that Central Bank could be open to providing further stimulus. Gold futures climbed nearly 1.1 percent to a record $1,562 an ounce.
Netflix is hiking prices by 60 percent for subscribers who want to keep the mail and streaming options. The move comes as the company refocuses on its streaming business and away from its DVD mailing business.
Don't forget -- for the very latest news about your money, check out the all-new CNNMoney.com.
AMERICAN MORNING back right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Twenty-seven minutes past the hour.
We're finding out more about the secret war on terror overseas this morning. A U.S. official is telling CNN that CIA operatives are secretly working in Somalia.
VELSHI: Barbara Starr found out why. Let's bring her in now live from the Pentagon.
Barbara, what are your sources telling you?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning to both of you.
A U.S. official confirming to CNN this morning that CIA personnel, indeed, have traveled to Somalia, recently, to help with the interrogation of terror suspects in that country, people being held by Somalis.
This situation is described to us as being very rare, perhaps just a couple of cases where CIA personnel have gone to Somalia, but confirming that they are operating out of the airport there when personnel and U.S. aircraft go in and out of Mogadishu, the capital of that very troubled, very dangerous country in East Africa.
So why is this happening? Why this increased secret U.S. war in Somalia with using both the CIA and U.S. military commandos?
Well, you just really have to look at that map. Somalia is home to al-Shabaab, the al Qaeda affiliate which is said by the United States to be increasing its ties to al Qaeda. Next door in Yemen, the al- Shabaab is a very violent insurgent group in Somalia.
So, the U.S. is doing this because they want to support the Somali government forces who are fighting the al-Shabaab. They want to tamp down this insurgent movement, this al Qaeda-related movement inside Somali. They want to support the very shaky government there.
But, you know, there is a humanitarian element to all of this right now -- a massive drought and famine emerging in Somalia and across East Africa. Eleven million people, perhaps, impacted by the drought and al-Shabaab has been keeping aid groups out of southern Somalia. The aid groups want very much to get back in there.
So, this is a country that needs help in both fighting terrorism and basically in keeping its own people alive right now -- Ali, Kiran.
VELSHI: Good point. All right. Barbara, thanks very much for that. Thanks for reporting on that.
CHETRY: Also, top stories this morning:
A search and rescue group has filed a civil lawsuit against Casey Anthony. Officials with Texas' EquuSearch claim their organization spent $112,000 attempting to find Casey's daughter Caylee during the summer and fall of 2008. The suit claims that Anthony knew her daughter was dead, but intentionally misled the company and its volunteers. They're seeking 115 grand in damages, plus interest and attorney fees.
VELSHI: And, of course, the defense's argument was that she knew her daughter had drowned. So, at that point, if she knew her daughter had drowned, why was she letting the search continue?
Tucson shooting suspect Jared Lee Loughner can refuse to take his anti-psychotic medications. That's the ruling of a federal appeals panel. They say, because Loughner hasn't been convicted of a crime, he's entitled to deny any treatment.
Loughner is charged with killing six people and wounding 13 others including Arizona Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords during a shooting rampage in Tucson in January.
CHETRY: We're counting down to the August 2nd deadline for a deal to raise the nation's debt ceiling and allow the government to continue paying its bills.
Frustrated by the slow pace of talks with congressional leaders, President Obama says that Social Security checks, veterans benefits, all may not go out August 3rd if they can't reach an agreement.
The two sides will meet again this afternoon at the White House. This would be the fourth straight day of meetings.
VELSHI: Meantime, the nation's small business leaders are delivering a strong message to Congress and the president. They're warning both sides not to risk a potentially disastrous default.
Joining us now from Atlanta is David Martin. He is the president of Home Style Foods and from Austin, Texas, Clint Greenleaf. He's the chairman and CEO of Greenlife Book Group.
Gentlemen, good to see you both. Thank you for being with us. I guess the question we've got is, how all of this is affecting the ability to deal with really what is a bigger problem in this country and that is the number of people who are unemployed.
We're counting on guys like you to do some hiring to bring people back into the working fold. David, I'm going to ask you, President of Homestyle Foods, you make sausages.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
VELSHI: I don't know how the sausages are selling, how business is doing right now, but what would help you to hire new people? DAVID MARTIN, PRESIDENT, HOME STYLE FOODS, LLC: One of the things that would help right now is transportation. The other concern we have regarding this debt ceiling is what will the impact of the government be on our business?
As you know, we're regulated by USDA and one of the concerns is if there's a disruption in government services, then we will not have our USDA inspector on-site and we cannot produce the sausages unless we have those.
So in addition to having a concern about not being able to hire, we are concerned about whether we'll be able to maintain our present work force.
VELSHI: Right. You are concerned about something slowing down or shutting down.
MARTIN: Very much.
VELSHI: Let me ask you Clint, last time we spoke to you in October, be you had 38 people on your staff. You now have 47 and you're -- you have the ability to add more, you've got business that justifies you adding more. Is that true?
CLINT GREENLEAF, COE OF GREENLEAF BOOK GROUP: That's right. Yes. I could easily add 15 more people. We're launching a new division. I could very easily go out and do that. My big risk is the uncertainty that's out there in the market.
The debt ceiling discussion is part of it for me. The bigger question is the health care, the taxes, and I don't want to bring on a whole big burden of new people and then have the government change the game on me.
VELSHI: Let me ask you what that means. I hear that a lot and I hear it from people who know nothing about business. That's why I wanted to talk to you because you do.
This is your decision to make. What do you mean by that, the uncertainty about regulation and taxes and health care? How does that affect your decision to add 15 more people or five more people?
GREENLEAF: Sure. Well, as soon as health care bill was passed my health care costs went up about 20 percent.
VELSHI: OK.
GREENLEAF: That's an annual cost for me. That kind of big jump, we pay a lot of our employee benefits. We do a great job for our employees. That kind of a huge bump is going to really chop my legs out.
As soon as -- there's also talk of taxes and all of that, the punishing the super-rich out there, that kind of a punishment is really going to hurt me. I wouldn't call myself super-rich by any stretch of the imagination, but it's going to inhibit my ability to hire new people.
VELSHI: Let me ask you the same question, David Martin. You have issues about regulation. You know, if the government stops for any particular reason. But ultimately are your decisions to hire new people based on demand or do you have some of Clint's fears about government regulation taxes and health care?
MARTIN: Well, one of the big concerns we have right now is the credit crunch. As I discussed once before, we're in the process of trying to export some product to another country, Brazil.
However, if the debt ceiling is not raised, there's a concern about some of the programs. One in particular would be a program that will assist small businesses to borrow money for working capital, which will allow us to expedite and get this deal completed.
That would allow us to hire new people. Thereby, we would have the inventory to create more products, creating more demand, and thereby giving us a stronger cash flow.
VELSHI: So you actually like government involvement in your business?
MARTIN: Well, it's not whether I like it. It's just a matter that is there and we've learned to adapt to this. We have control like for us as I talked to a number of my colleagues, one Jay Anthony Brown, who's working on a product.
He's got to go through and get his labels approved. I mean, that's the whole nature of our business is that there is a lot of government involvement, whether we want it or not, it's just there.
VELSHI: OK, Clint, let me ask you this. You're a CPA. You know a lot about taxes. Ultimately, you've expressed the fact that government meddling or whatever it is, is slowing you down or holding you back or causing you to hesitate on hiring decisions. What action by government would cause you to go ahead?
GREENLEAF: To go ahead and hire?
VELSHI: Yes.
GREENLEAF: That's a great question. I don't know that any action. I think it's a lack of action. The fact that government is always trying to meddle and pull the levers is really changing the game for me.
Every time they try and touch something or fix something, they usually screw two or three extra things up. So that's really the biggest concern I have is that in trying fix the debt ceiling, they're going to mess two or three more things up for me and I'm not going to be able to pay my staff and we have more unemployment.
VELSHI: You support the idea that some people are bringing up that we should just do an overhaul of the tax system in this country, absolutely full comprehensive tax reform?
GREENLEAF: Yes, absolutely. It is such a broken system we need to fix it.
VELSHI: All right, guys, thanks very much. Thanks for coming and giving us your actual perspective as business people who have to face these decisions every day.
David Martin is the president of Home Style Foods based out of Atlanta. They make good sausage. Clint Greenleaf is the chairman and CEO of the Greenleaf Book Group.
All right, coming up next, the astonishing scale of the phone hacking surrounding the "News of the World."
CHETRY: Thousands were targeted according to Scotland Yard and thousands of victims haven't been informed yet. We're going to have much more on this coming up. We're going to be talking to John Burns, "New York Times" London bureau chief about what is next in this investigation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: It's 39 minutes past the hour right now. We're taking a look at live pictures right now from inside parliament, that's the U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron.
He is speaking right now and some of the issues being addressed include the growing hacking scandal. Right now, he says that the initial part of the phone hacking public inquiry will have to report back within 12 months.
He also went on to say that a judge led inquiry into these allegations will call witnesses under oath. So just another way that the enormity of this scandal continues to grow. British government now getting involved with the inquiry.
Meantime, there are many that are blasting News Corp over it and saying it should stop thinking about mergers and try to sort out the mess that's been created.
Also defending his decision to hire "News of the World's" former editor and his spokesman, Rupert Murdoch. Right now, joining us from Cambridge, England is John Burns, London Bureau chief for "The New York Times."
John, thanks so much for being with us this morning. So our reporting was that Rupert Murdoch, as well as his son, James Murdoch, may not have to testify at all before parliament because they are not U.K. citizens. What are you hearing about that?
JOHN BURNS, LONDON BUREAU CHIEF FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, it's actually true that the subpoena powers before the United States does not - a parliament does not affect non-U.K. citizens. But I think that would be a ruse, which would simply dig the Murdochs into a much deeper hole.
I think there's already been some discussion about how healthy it is to have such a large portion of your media owned by people who are not nationals of the country and I think to extenuate that at this critical moment in all of this would not be helpful to Mr. Murdoch's cause.
CHETRY: And so for people who are just sort of learning more about this and saying OK, there was some reporters from "News of the World" that hacked into some phones, we've seen that issue grow, allegations far reaching from that paper into other papers.
Perhaps "The Sun," perhaps "The Sunday Times," but what is the significance of this inquiry now, this judge-led inquiry that's taking place in British government into what was going on with Murdoch's newspapers?
BURNS: Well, it's very significant, indeed. We now know that this will continue to royal the British political landscape not for a few days or few weeks, but probably for two, three, four years, certainly throughout the life of the present government, which is only in its second year and is set to govern until 2015.
Mr. Cameron and the House of Commons remarks that you mentioned as you opened your report here, described this as a firestorm for the press and the police. What he didn't say, it was a firestorm for him personally as well.
There is a potential in all of this for this to drive a further wedge between the two governing parties here and ultimately to cause an election that may be some way off. But there has been no turmoil in British politics to compare with this. I would say almost in my lifetime, but certainly in the last 30 years.
CHETRY: The financial impact could also be significant as proving to be significant already, but one of the big things is that there are now apparently calls on -- along both party lines for Rupert Murdoch to drop his bid to acquire this big company, this British Sky Broadcasting, saying that it might not be in the interest, national interest, as these investigations continue. How big of a hit is that for Rupert Murdoch's media empire?
BURNS: It's a very big hit indeed. In British constitution, if I can call it that, and political practice. What is going to unfold this afternoon and this evening, in the parliament here, is a fundamental significance.
All three major parties accounting for more than 600 of the 650 seats in the House of Commons will be voting for a resolution move by the opposition Labor Party that calls for Mr. Murdoch to abandon that takeover bid, which would be one of the biggest, if not the single biggest, I believe, media takeover bids in the history of this country.
It will fundamentally, of course, affect the future of News Corporation because in my view, at least, a vote in the House of Commons by all three parties asking to get out of that bid, is probably going to end be the bid for all practical purposes and cause News Corp to go back to the drawing board and refashion its future. CHETRY: If there is an investigation here in the United States, because apparently Senator Rockefeller here is calling for an investigation into whether News Corp broke any laws in the U.S., how does that then affect News Corp?
BURNS: Well, it's very serious. I mean, as you know, the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act in the United States makes criminal practices in foreign countries by American-based corporations, American-owned corporations, to be criminal in American law as well.
Now I think we may be getting ahead of ourselves yet because there is no evidence yet, certainly none that could sustain a criminal action, that there were any criminal acts by News Corporation executives or executives with the British subsidiary, News International.
Of course, that has been widely alleged, but I think we need to wait and see as the dust clears in all of this, to learn as we will do with a judge-led inquiry, which has powers to force people to testify, and the now revived and much more vigorous police inquiry, we're going to learn a lot more as to who did what and when.
But all of that is some way down the road and it needs to be said for the time being, News Corporation executives led by Rupert Murdoch and his son James and the two executives of their operations here in Britain, Rebekah Brooks, have all denied knowledge of or criminal involvement in any of these activities.
CHETRY: Right. That is absolutely worth noting.
John Burns, New York Times London bureau chief, thanks for your insight on this story. We appreciate it.
VELSHI: All right. Still ahead, city versus country. Who's healthier City dwellers or country folk? The answer might surprise you.
CHETRY: And should parents of children considered extremely obese lose custody if they don't control their child's weight? Provocative commentary in one of the nation's most distinguished medical journals argues yes. We're live with more on that, still ahead.
It's 46 minutes past the hour.
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CHETRY: Forty-seven minutes past the hour. Here are your top headlines this morning.
Casey Anthony has been sued by a search and rescue group that tried to find her daughter Caylee in 2008. Texas Equusearch is seeking $115,000 claiming that Anthony knew her daughter was dead, but intentionally misled the firm and its volunteers.
Suspected Tucson gunman Jared Lee Loughner cannot be forced to take anti-psychotic medications. A three-judge federal appeals panel ruling that because he wasn't convicted of a crime yet and is presumed innocent, he has the right to refuse treatment.
President Obama warns of dire consequences if a deal can't be reached on the debt ceiling. He says if the government defaults he cannot guarantee that Social Security checks will go out next month. The president and congressional leaders will meet for a fourth straight day at the White House this afternoon.
Let's check in on the markets right now. U.S. stock futures trading higher ahead of the opening bell. Strong numbers on China's economy helping calm investors and push world markets higher.
And millions of Americans in 12 states are under heat advisories again this morning. The dangerous temperatures are expected across parts of Texas, Missouri, Tennessee and other southeastern states. Farmers say that triple-digit temperatures and drought conditions are now threatening crops.
The crew of the shuttle Atlantis starting day six waking up to Elton John's "Rocket Man." Sir Elton also sent along a special message to the crew. They'll spend most of the day transferring equipment and supplies to the International Space Station.
Well, they are ready to raise the roof in Minneapolis, seven months after this happened. Remember when the Metrodome collapsed during that winter storm? Well, crews will begin inflating the new roof using giant fans. Officials hope to have the Metrodome renovations complete by next month in time for the Minnesota Vikings' first preseason game.
Seems a little early for football, doesn't it?
You're caught up on the day's headlines. AMERICAN MORNING is back after the break.
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VELSHI: Beautiful sunny morning in Manhattan. New York City, sunny and 76 degrees. It's going to be partly cloudy a little later on, but 87, which is normally a little hotter than I like it but I'll take the wind (ph) compared to what the rest of the country or much of it's going through.
CHETRY: And compared to yesterday. Boy.
VELSHI: Yes.
CHETRY: Well, what comes to mind when you think of life in the country? You think fresh air, nice food, a healthier lifestyle, more relaxed, away from the urban jungle?
VELSHI: Yes. Sounds like it would be better, right?
CHETRY: Yes.
VELSHI: No. CHETRY: But a new study suggests that country living may not be all that it's cracked up to be. According to a research group, city dwellers tend to live longer. Why? Well, better access to health care, crackdown on pollution, crime and overcrowding. While folks living in the country are more likely to get in a car accident, to die of a wound, to suffer high blood pressure, obesity and diabetes.
VELSHI: Wow. That's sort of -- that's some weird stuff in there.
CHETRY: Yes. Sometimes a study can be what you make of it, right?
VELSHI: Right. Right.
CHETRY: There's a lot of risky things about living in the city, too.
VELSHI: I wouldn't think living in the country gives you a higher chance of getting -- dying of a gunshot wound.
CHETRY: I do think that one thing they do talk about, especially in extreme rural areas is the lack of access to health care.
VELSHI: Yes and there's also -- right. And the other thing a lot more people live in cities. So while there's higher crime and higher gun violence, there are a lot more of us to divide it over.
All right. It's a radical notion. A commentary in a leading medical journal suggests the parents of obese children should lose custody of their kids because they're dangerously overweight.
CHETRY: Senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us now.
So this is something that people talk about this a lot. Childhood obesity, what a big problem it is. But, what is their argument for actually removing a child from the custody of loving parents who maybe just aren't doing enough to control their wait?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, as you can imagine, this commentary piece in the Journal of the American Medical Association is causing quite a bit of controversy. Bloggers going crazy over this.
The argument of these Harvard researchers is this. Look, nearly a third of the kids in this country are overweight and obese and some of them, the heavier ones, are really in danger of having terrible health problems later on. And if parents can't manage it, if they're given a chance to get their kids lose weight, we should consider having the states take these kids away and put them in some form of foster care, where they will have more of a chance of losing weight. That's their argument.
VELSHI: I mean, this doesn't sort of tackle the fact that there are a host of other problems that taking kids away from their parents, so the kid might eat less and get a little slimmer, but you're taking a lot of other support services.
What are people who have studied this having to say in response to this report?
COHEN: This is not a very popular idea. The experts we talked to said. Look, first of all, how do you know the child will do better in any other household? I mean, a child's weight is not completely in control of the parents. So that's one argument that's out there.
And another argument that's out there is that the whole culture is making these children fat, it's not just the parents. And to take a child away from something that the parents didn't necessarily cause and that the parents can't necessarily solve seems pretty extreme.
CHETRY: And just for practical purposes, I mean, we're talking about budget cuts up and down the block, on a national level, on local levels. Where would they get the amount of money involved in removing a child, putting them to someone else, giving them the money and the funding and oversight that requires, you know, trying to at least change the eating habits? I don't see how that could really happen.
COHEN: Right, right. There are not enough foster homes in this country for every child who is dangerously obese. There just aren't. And there's not enough money to take care of them. So your practical consideration is right.
And from a legal standpoint, this would also be a little iffy. Let's say a state decided one day, you know, I read that article that the Harvard researchers wrote, let's start doing that. Legally speaking, they probably would be on pretty shaky ground. The standard is you take a child away from parents only when there's eminent danger.
Let's say a child has juvenile diabetes and would die without insulin and the parents refuse to give insulin. That's a good reason to take a child away from parents. But if the child is heavy, they're not in eminent danger of dying. Sort of long-term, yes, definitely they're at risk for some pretty bad things. But they're not in imminent danger of dying.
CHETRY: There are a lot of people, also, who say things like I just wish I had somebody to explain to me how I can go about doing this because a lot of parents give up because they don't want to fight with the kids 24/7 about what to eat.
VELSHI: Look, Elizabeth knows from our regular conversations when I'm in Atlanta that I'm a pretty smart guy and I certainly don't make good eating choices. So maybe we've got to look at the support systems around parents to better equip them for conversations and choices with their kids.
COHEN: Right, that's true. Parents need support to help their kids lose weight. But I think the problem that these researchers are getting at is real.
When you have almost a third of the kids being overweight and obese and we know that makes them nor likely to get heart disease later, to get diabetes later, you kind of think -- you're desperate, you think what can we do? And if parents are part of the problem, I can sort of see why they went down that road. VELSHI: Yes. I definitely see the point of it. But it's an extreme measure.
Elizabeth, good to see you and thanks so much.
COHEN: OK, thanks.
CHETRY: All right. Top stories coming up after the break.
Thanks, Elizabeth.
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