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American Morning

Terrorist Leader Killed in Yemen; Trial of Michael Jackson's Doctor Continues; Bank of American Introducing New Debit Card Fee; Terror Leader Al-Awlaki Killed; Amanda Knox Dancing in Prison; Giant Fan Beating; Michael Jackson Death Trial; Issue No. 1 For Re- election; States Obama Needs for Reelection Hit Hard by Recession; 58 Percent of Working-Age U.S. Population Is Employed

Aired September 30, 2011 - 06:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And breaking news overnight. A key al Qaeda kill. A U.S.-born cleric regarded as the biggest threat to America's homeland security now dead. Many experts saying this one is bigger than Bin Laden.

Good morning to you. It is Friday, September 30th. Welcome to AMERICAN MORNING. I'm Carol Costello.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Christine Romans. Ali Velshi is of today.

Let's begin with this breaking news this morning. Another detail in the war against al Qaeda. The White House saying Anwar al-awlaki, the leader of al Qaeda in Yemen is dead. Many experts saying this is even bigger than getting Bin Laden since he was young, internet savvy, inspirational, English speaking, and this was an American citizen.

Someone born in 1971 in New Mexico, someone who have preached in this country and around the world, preached against Americans. Nic Robertson has more live for us this morning from London. Good morning, Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Christine. The operation targeting him began at 9:55 a.m. in the morning local time in Yemen. According to Yemeni officials, about 90 mile east of the capital Sanaa. He was about eight kilometers, five miles or so, outside of a town, and he was targeted there.

It's not clear exactly how he was targeted. We do know that just a few months ago a U.S. drone had a very near miss strike against him, hitting the fender of his car as he changed vehicles and escaped. It's not clear if it was this type of strike again this time coming from the air.

But Awlaki is so charismatic, so appealing to young people, so skilled in the use of the internet. He's produced many, many DVDs and CDs of his audio and video messages, has had a wide following over the past decade or so and is really known to be able to reach out and influence young people and bring in funding for Al Qaeda. So his death is going to be -- is going to strike a real blow against Al Qaeda right now, Christine.

ROMANS: Tell us more, Nic, about his message. His message evolved into being something more radical than it started. He told his followers that it was OK to target even innocent victims if you are going after the bigger goal of trying to protect Islam?

ROBERTSON: That's right. I mean, he told people it was OK to attack Americans, to attack Europeans, to attack others. And he said you didn't need a religious ruling to do it. It was OK to do it.

He was believed to have been part of the inspiration behind the alleged fort hood shooter, Major Nidal Hasan targeting and killing 13 fellow soldiers in Fort Hood in 2009. And he's also believed to have been the man who was responsible for recruiting Abdulmutallab, the underpants bomber who tried to bring down a flight Christmas, 2009.

So this is a man who has shown to be charismatic and can influence people. His message has grown for radical over the past decade or so. But his real skill is the fact he speaks English. He doesn't just speak Arabic, just appeal to people in Arabic but knows western civilizations and cultures and knows how to convince people in English, exactly the sort of people that Al Qaeda wants to recruit to their ranks and to convince them that the west is wrong, that you don't need a special ruling to attack people from the United States because they're trying to do Muslims harm. So this was his danger and this was the way that he had come to operate in the past few years.

ROMANS: Nic Robertson in London. Thanks, Nic.

COSTELLO: And as we get more information on Anwar al Awlaki's death, we wanted to take a look at the role he played within Al Qaeda. Awlaki was an American-born Muslim scholar and cleric. He's been living in Yemen the past eight years but spent the majority of his life living here in the United States.

He was the spokesman for Al Qaeda in the Arabian peninsula and described as the "bin Laden of the Internet." As an imam he preached and interacted with some of the hijackers responsible for the attacks on 9/11, although he condemned the attacks after they happened. He's believed to have recruited and trained the underwear bomber who attempted to bring down that plane on Christmas Day in 2009. Awlaki also played a rule in the Fort Hood shooting. He exchanged e-mails with Army Major Nidal Hasan. Awlaki encouraged Hasan to carry out that massacre.

ROMANS: Joining us now, someone who has followed this man for many years, CNN National Security Contributor Fran Townsend. You know of him. You know him well. You have worked with Yemeni authorities in the past to get them to turn him in or give more information about him. Now we know he's been a target. It's been a long road.

FRAN TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTOR: It's been a very long road. And it can't be understated the inspirational figure he was not only in the Arabian region but here in the United States and in London. He would make these tapes, even before you could use the internet for radicalization, I'm sure Nic could walk into a store and buy one of this tapes anywhere in the world throughout western Europe, and especially in London. And he would use this as a recruitment and fundraising vehicle, if you will.

And so he really is the charismatic figure. We've got to be clear, though. Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula has a very sophisticated bomb-making capability, and we saw this with the underwear bomber. We've seen it with the plane cargo, with the computer cartridge. So they still have a real capability, but now their ability to recruit new people and raise money is severely diminished.

COSTELLO: Yes, because I understand within Yemen, Al Qaeda is still growing, unlike in other countries.

It's probably, I don't know, more than a little likely that the United States had some part in Awlaki's killing.

TOWNSEND: Right.

COSTELLO: So how do you suppose it went down?

TOWNSEND: There's no question -- remember, given what's going on in Yemen, President Saleh just returned, there continues to be protests in the streets in Sana'a. They don't control -- the government there does not control all of the cities, particularly in the south. They have issues with Al Qaeda. And so the notion that the government could have turn their attention to the capture and kill now after eight years of being pressed for it is just unlikely to me. Certainly American intelligence, American military, would have assisted in the targeting if not more than that.

ROMANS: Let's talk about the fact that he's American. This is really the big selling point for him among some of his audiences. This is someone who knows the United States and the west, and has chosen to rise up and talk against it.

TOWNSEND: You know, there are only two people in that category. Al Awlaki is one and another. The other one is this guy by the name of Adam Gadahn who worked very closely with bin Laden. And they know how to make the message resonate with people in the west. They've lived here. They understand it. And they can appeal to people in the west. So taking half that capability away is a tremendous victory for the United States.

COSTELLO: We always talk about, you know, how Al Qaeda has become weaker and it's really not the major factor in, you know, the war on terror here in the United States. I mean, how would you characterize it now, now that Osama bin Laden's dead, now that Awlaki's dead?

TOWNSEND: Look, I'm always cautious about claiming victory, right? I mean, you don't want to encourage your enemies to prove you wrong. What I would say, they're severely weakened, on the run. Their great strength is in affiliates and the greatest affiliate of strength is the peninsula taking out the charismatic leader of al Awlaki severely diminishes them. The test now will be can they regenerate and launch an attack? We haven't seen the retaliatory attack we feared after the killing of bin Laden. We have to see if they can regenerate this capability.

But this is the time. We've heard Leon Panetta when he was CIA director, now secretary of defense, this is the time to try and finish this, to so fracture them, take away their leadership that you can really destroy Al Qaeda.

ROMANS: It was a year ago that the president signed this -- this -- this order, I guess to go after this American citizen. It's taken a long time to get him. How rare is that? How rare is that to target a U.S. citizen on U.S. soil, or as Jeff Toobin said, this is war?

TOWNSEND: That's right. It is war. And my successor, in the Obama administration, John Brennan said we're not going to let anyone use their American citizenship as a shield in this war. So I think that's exactly right, but it's a big step. We don't take likely in the United States government the targeting of an American, wherever you would be, and so this is a very significant step.

COSTELLO: Fran Townsend, thanks for joining us. Hopefully you'll join us against next hour. We're looking forward to it.

Details how the attack went down are sketchy. We know the United States targeted al Awlaki before the drone strike but just missed. Of course, this man is on the CIA target list. Barbara Starr is live for us at the Pentagon. The White House confirmed that al Awlaki is dead. What more can you tell us about how he died? Is there any information coming at all from the Pentagon?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, there isn't at this hour, Carol. We're having a little technical issue. Sorry. There is not at this hour. But, you know, the fact that the White House so rapidly confirmed that he is dead is a fascinating clue. We have seen this before. How and why would the White House know this so rapidly? Is there a death photo or, in fact, was U.S. intelligence and the U.S. military deeply involved in targeting this man as they have been all along?

It seems very implausible that the Yemenis, they may have capabilities, would have been able to do this on their own. What we do know is that a U.S. military team had been in Yemen until very recently, at least, working on counterterrorism operations and training with the Yemenis. There had been no indication they had been taken out of the country. It's that kind of U.S. capability that could have provided, could have provided, the on the ground targeting - watching where he was, knowing that he got into a vehicle, perhaps, driving on a certain road, and perhaps calling in those coordinates to a drone overhead or a U.S. aircraft overhead.

Certainly the U.S. would have likely been involved in essentially having eyeballs on him the entire why. This is the kind of precision targeting that the U.S. special forces do along with the CIA and I know that they had been operating inside Yemen. Carol, Christine?

COSTELLO: Barbara Starr reporting live from the Pentagon, thank you.

ROMANS: So the Obama administration authorized the CIA to capture and kill the New Mexican born Muslim cleric last year. Dan Lothian live at the White House. Dan, this morning Fran Townsend, who worked in the Bush administration, is now our security analyst, our contributor, she said it's a very big step to take, but the right step, and clearly these are the results.

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, big step, because while the U.S. has gone after terrorists in other countries it is rare for the U.S. to go after an American. And so, yes, the president did issue that order of capture or kill last year.

And what's interesting, if you remember back then, his father wrote a letter to President Obama saying that his son was not part of Al Qaeda. He was resisting or pushing back against this order of capture or kill.

But nonetheless, the administration, senior administration official confirming that in fact he is dead, but they're not yet confirming what role the U.S. may have played in his death. Were drone attacks part of this operation that took him out, or some other kind of operation? No confirmation of that as of yet.

One other point -- we are waiting to find out if the we'll hear from the president on this either in person or some kind of paper release. I can tell you that the president does have an event today at 11:00 in Virginia. It is a ceremony for the change of office of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. And so the president will be in front of a camera, but so far we don't know yet if the president will be making any comments on this.

One other point -- I just got a statement from U.S. Representative Peter King who is chairman of the house committee on homeland security, and he said in part, quote, "The killing of Anwar al Awlaki is a great success in our fight against Al Qaeda and its affiliates. For the past several years how al Awlaki has been more dangerous than even than Osama bin Laden had been."

ROMANS: Thank you so much, Dan. We'll keep checking in with you for the official White House response.

COSTELLO: I think we heard that text come in.

ROMANS: I think we did. That was good.

COSTELLO: Let's to Italy now and check up with Paula Newton.

ROMANS: Good morning, Paula. You interviewed Anwar Awlaki's father and spent time with him, about his relationship with his son and the U.S. targeting him. Tell us more about their relationship and how this young man went from an all-American boy to one of those wanted men in the world?

COSTELLO: To a terrorist. PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Over conversations with his father, this was a father in anguish. He couldn't understand how this happened to his son, and he brought pictures, showed me pictures of him as Disneyworld. Anwar looked as he father said, a jovial, happy son. He seemed happy to be in the United States, seemed very immersed from American culture. He was born there and considered himself an American.

But his father also refused to really address directly any of those allegations I put to him, the fact that he had perhaps motivated the killer at Fort Hood, the fact that he was inciting violence and encouraging people to kill innocents. He wanted us to know his son was not as bad as U.S. officials were saying.

When I would take it become to the officials, we understand his father's concerns. This is just not the way it is.

What was also very interesting, though, that he was sure that his family, his clan, would protect his son wherever he was in Yemen. And clearly, with the U.S. on his tail now, we first reported more than two years ago using drones to try to seek him out, it's come to this today. I've been e-mailing them, calling. It's understandable they're not returning my e-mails or calls.

But they still have Anwar Awlaki's children in his home. His father told me he took out American citizenship for these children. His own wife has American citizenship. They do not, in no way, shape, or form encouraged any of this in the home.

I can tell you having spoken to him over several hours, this was a father absolutely hurt and pained that a country that he loved, he told me he loved, was now targeting to assassinate his son.

ROMANS: So a little more about his son. He was born in New Mexico in 1971. He lived in the U.S. he was educated here. Clearly assimilated, or was he assimilated in American culture? And what caused him to turn into a terrorist? What was the thing his father says propelled him down this other path?

NEWTON: His father speaks to me about what happened after 9/11. He says after 9/11 his son could not believe what had happened, that he said he had only ever preached peace until means, that he said it was against anybody in the Muslim faith to be able to basically undertake such a terrorist attack. His father claims after years of the war on terror and the way it was prosecuted that that is what turned him.

You know, in talking to some other people and seeing some of these family pictures, knowing that his personality, Anwar Awlaki got off on infamy of being this internet preacher. Anytime I put that to his father, he refused to have anything to do with it, saying that's not possible. And yet in speaking with people that were still in contact with him in Yemen, it was clear, he wanted the infamy online, he wanted to be the person famous for being able to incite people to fight against the United States and even kill innocent Americans.

His father, though, put his hands up like any father would and said, I do not understand. This is not what we preached in our home.

ROMANS: Paula Newton, thank you so much.

So just how significant is this? The director of our international security at the Asia-Pacific foundation joins us at the bottom of the hour with more perspective on this breaking news this morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: It's 15 past the hour. Now to the Michael Jackson death trial and more questions about Dr. Conrad Murray's response in critical moments after Jackson's cardiac arrest.

In court yesterday the singer's bodyguard testifying he called 911, but only after Dr. Murray asked him to collect drug vials and an IV bag from Jackson's bedroom. Prosecutors say it's evidence of Murray's attempt at a cover-up.

Joining us now, CNN legal contributor and criminal defense attorney Paul Callan. Welcome, Paul.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: Good morning.

Let's start with Alberto Alvarez, one of Jackson's, I guess, security personnel. He took the stand and talked about going into Michael Jackson's bedroom. Michael Jackson was clearly in distress, yet Dr. Conrad Murray said, oh, put these vials in this paper bag, like, hide these drugs in another paper bag. He didn't say to Alvarez, oh, call 911.

Let's listen to a bit of what Alvarez' testimony was and then we'll talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALBERTO ALVAREZ, MICHAEL JACKSON'S PERSONAL ASSISTANT: I was standing at the foot of the bed. He reached over and grabbed a handful of vials and then he reached out to me and said, here. Put these in a bag.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So, of course, the prosecution is saying, Dr. Murray was much more interested in a cover-up than in actually saving Michael Jackson's life.

CALLAN: Yes, you know, Alvarez made a very compelling witness. You can see, he's strong and confident in his testimony, and here you have Michael Jackson, presumably dying, maybe already dead, on the bed. You would think a 911 call, immediate medical action, would be called for.

Instead Alvarez builds the scene of Murray hiding vials, moving things around the room. And eventually by the end of the day we have a 25-minute lapse before 911 is called with the cardiologist, Dr. Murray, in the room. Why would that be? COSTELLO: Even Alvarez, that he wouldn't call 911 immediately. I know on cross-examination, the defense attorney said, look, you changed your story several times. So the jury could look at Alvarez and say, why didn't you call 911 right away? You saw Michael Jackson appeared to be in trouble?

CALLAN: I think prosecutors will say Dr. Conrad Murray is in the room. He's a cardiologist. You couldn't expect a security guard to make the decision that 911 was needed. He would rely on the doctor and trust the doctor. In fact only in retrospect does he now realize that that was misplaced trust.

COSTELLO: But the doctor didn't know how to perform CPR and didn't Alvarez know that?

CALLAN: No, he didn't know that. Carol, I represent doctors and hospitals in medical malpractice cases and I happened to be sitting with medical professionals yesterday when some of the testimony was coming down. I mean, people were in a state of shock. I'm talking about trained medical people. One doctor said to me, there's no way he can ever take the witness stand in this case, Dr. Murray. How can he explain not knowing how to do CPR? Not calling 911? It was a very good day for the prosecution in showing his level of incompetence at the scene.

COSTELLO: The other sad fact to come out of this trial is that Dr. Conrad Murray sent people down into the kitchen to talk to the chef, right?

CALLAN: Yes, he did.

COSTELLO: And those people said Mr. Jackson's in trouble. We need -- we need Prince, his son to come upstairs. But the chef either didn't realize what was happening. She just went back to preparing lunch for the day. I mean, it seemed they all lived in a bubble and stuff like this just happened every day in Michael Jackson's home.

CALLAN: Well I guess they did. I mean, it really is odd that the doctor's reaching out to the chef and she's involved in the whole process, but she was. And, yes, these celebrities do live in a bubble. In the end, prosecutors are painting a picture here of a celebrity who buys the services of the doctor, Dr. Conrad Murray, not really for medical attention but to get drugs administered to him, because the rich and celebrities pretty much get what they want.

So that's the picture that they're going to create. He's in a bubble. He hires this doctor. But why isn't the doctor protecting him, rather than hurting him? That's the picture the prosecution has created.

COSTELLO: Just the fact Michael Jackson was in bed sleeping and had an oxygen tank beside him and it was hooked up to him and he was also hooked up to a catheter. Nobody sleeps that way every night.

CALLAN: What struck me, when the security guard comes in and he's describing the scene as you've just described it, on the one hand, Jackson was supposed to be vibrant and ready to go out on a 50- city tour. The security guard said he looked like a patient in a hospice, oxygen hooked up to him, an IV in place, vials of medication which Dr. Murray tells him to hide instead calling 911. It is such a compelling, bizarre scene at the end of Michael Jackson's life.

And we see all of this in the first three days of the trial. I've rarely seen a case that begins with such drama and excitement, almost like a Hollywood production or a Hollywood movie.

COSTELLO: You wonder, where will it go from here?

CALLAN: I don't know. It's got to get more boring. From day to day, every day it's another piece of fascinating testimony.

COSTELLO: Paul Callan, thanks for coming in. we appreciate it. Christine?

ROMANS: All right, "Minding your Business" this morning. Carol, have you enjoyed using nor debit card for free? Well, for Bank of America customers, the luxury of using your own debit cards to make purchases soon will cost you in addition to any existing monthly service fees. And guess what? They're not the only bank instituting, you guessed it, new debit card fees.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: Five bucks a month - that is how much it will cost bank of America customers to make purchases think their debit cards. It's set to take effect in 2012, and customers are already voicing displeasure.

RIAN KELLY, BANK CUSTOMER: Not too psyched about it, and that's why I'm switching.

ROMANS: Why the new fees? A Bank of America spokeswoman says, quote, "The economics of offering a debit card have changed with recent regulations." The regulation they're referring to is the Durbin amendment. It goes into effect Saturday and reduces the amount of money banks charge merchants every time a debit card is used to make a purchase. It will drop from 44 cents to between 21 cents and 24 cents.

Now, that difference may seem like pennies, but it's expected to cost banks $6.6 billion dollars in revenue per year according to Chaplin Strategy and Research.

And B of A isn't the only bank making changes. Chase and Wells Fargo are testing three dollar monthly debit card fees in select markets. Sun Trust started charging a $5 fee on basic accounts this summer, and Regents Financial is expected to roll out a $4 on debits next month. With the latest regulation along with legislation from Congress last year shutting down the banks fee machine of overdraft charges, financial institutions are finding new ways to generate income.

But all of these new fees are leaving customers jaded. ALLISON JOSEPH, BANK CUSTOMER: It is a matter of very little time before they send awe notice that they're tacking on a fee in another way.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROMANS: Banks of America is the biggest bank in the country. It has big influence over what other banks do. If this debit fee works, we can probably expect to the see other banks following suit. As I told you just a moment ago, already many other banks are testing it. You've seen rewards points and programs being rolled back. You've already seen all kinds of different fees for credit cards, for debit cards.

But my advice to people on this, if you are really outraged, use cash. Go to a credit union. You can go to bankrate.com and you can find out what kinds of fees there are for all kinds of different financial institutions. Use your two feet. You don't have to be a victim.

COSTELLO: OK, so these fees went into place because there are new regulations on credit card fees and banks want to make up debit card loss?

ROMANS: Debit card transactions, that's right. When you use your debit card now the bank issues is paying less from the merchant. So now they're transferring some of that on to you.

COSTELLO: On to the consumer, to we, the consumer. So can Congress act to stop this?

ROMANS: Well, it's ironic that the banking industry says it's because Congress acted that they are forced, quote, unquote, "forced" to do this. They lost billions of dollars in fee revenues from the fee machines they were generating before because Congress shut it down. You're going to get 30 days' notice saying it's a new fee. And then it's your choice to accept the deal or not.

COSTELLO: I know Bank of America is in trouble, I know, but other banks are not exactly poor. They're making money.

ROMANS: And want to make sure they keep making money, because they're for-profit. They're not there to do us a favor. There to make money and serve they are shareholders.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: It's 24 minutes past the hour. More business headlines next. And then more on this morning's breaking news, the biggest blow to Al Qaeda since Osama bin Laden.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: It's 30 minutes past the hour. Good morning to you. We have breaking news to tell you about. The White House confirming that Anwar Al-Awlaki, the leader of al Qaeda in Yemen, has been killed. A huge blow to al Qaeda.

His sermons on the web may have inspired the accused Fort Hood shooter and the suspected underwear bomber. Nic Robertson will join us live with more on this key kill in a moment.

ROMANS: In other news this morning, closing arguments in the Amanda Knox murder appeal continue today in Italy. We're also getting a never before seen look at her life behind bars.

Our Matthew Chance obtained these photos from a local rock band that played a few gigs in her prison. It showed Knox dancing. She apparently befriended and confided in band members. Knox, a college student from Seattle was convicted of a gruesome murder of her college housemate in Italy.

COSTELLO: Two men charged in the brutal beating of the San Francisco Giants fan are due back in court today, 29-year-old Louis Sanchez and 30-year-old Marvin Norwood have pleaded not guilty.

Brian Stow was attacked outside Dodgers Stadium back in March and he was beaten into a coma. The family says still continues to make significant improvements and he's even able to go outside last week for the first time.

ROMANS: Jurors will hear more testimony today about the doctor accused of causing Michael Jackson's death. Jackson's bodyguard Alberto Alvarez says he called 911 on the day Jackson died, but Conrad Murray made a stunning request first.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALBERTO ALVAREZ, JACKSON'S DIRECTOR OF LOGISTICS: -- at the foot of the bed, he reached over and grabbed a handful of vials, and then he reached out to me and said, here put these in a bag.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: Murray's charged with involuntary manslaughter.

COSTELLO: Back to the breaking news now. Yemen saying Anwar Al- Awlaki, the leader of al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula has been killed. A huge blow to al Qaeda. He was looked as the leader of the next generation of terrorists. He was different because he was born in the United States in new Mexico. Nic Robertson has more on who he was. He is live in London for us. Good morning, Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Well, this was a man so charismatic who spoke English that he appealed to an international and English audience, not just an Arabic-speaking audience.

He could get al Qaeda's message across. I sat down with some young men in London who had met with Al-Awlaki, listened to his lectures when Al-Awlaki lived in London after he left the United States. And they told he was just for them as important as Bin Laden.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Anwar Al-Awlaki. The radical Yemen-based preacher seen here online. His followers saying he was like Osama Bin Laden.

ABU MUWAZ, HEAD SALAFI YOUTH MOVEMENT: He reminds me, for example, Osama Bin Laden and also Al-Zawahiri in terms of soft spoken and at the same time, the knowledge that they have, the foundations that they have.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said, hand me over your scrolls.

ROBERTSON: This is the same Anwar Al-Awlaki who exchanged e- mails with Major Nidal Hasan accused of killing 13 people at Fort Hood. After the killings, Awlaki praised Hasan on his web site calling him a hero.

Why Awlaki is so influential is a combination of birth and upbringing. He was born in the United States. His father was a minister in the Yemeni government. He is smart and privileged. He preached in a mosque in Virginia.

He doesn't agree with Awlaki's extreme views and denounces the killings at Fort Hood, but it was here at this mosque Awlaki met Major Hasan as well as two of the 9/11 bombers. The 9/11 Commission reports that even before this, he was on the FBI's radar. According to the commission, by the time we sought to interview him in 2003, he had left the United States.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: So it's not just the fact that this guy is charismatic, that has made him important to al Qaeda, but he's got so much out there online. He's been a good recruiter and also a good fund-raiser.

And Yemen at this time is a place that the United States has a special interest in. There is increasing move toward civil war. Al Qaeda has taken control of three provinces and the last major attacks against the United States all came from Yemen, and that bomb maker there is still on the loose.

COSTELLO: But Al-Awlaki is dead that's according to U.S. officials and Yemeni officials. Nic Robertson reporting live from London, thanks.

ROMANS: So joining us now with more perspective on this, Sajjan Gohel, a director for International Security at the Asia-Pacific Foundation, welcome to the program. First of all, how significant is this death?

SAJJAN GOHEL, DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY, ASIA-PACIFIC FOUNDATION: It is very significant. If you put it into perspective, Bin Laden's death had global ramifications for the transnational terror movement.

Anwar Al-Awlaki's death will have equal ramifications for lone wolf terrorism, individuals that independently, they're not necessarily tied to a terrorist group, but are motivated by the ideology of what al Qaeda inspires.

And mostly because Anwar Al-Awlaki was very articulate. He understood the western mindset. He understood how to use the internet for those purposes and he was very skilled in indoctrinating young people around the world so it will have a blow for lone wolf terrorism.

COSTELLO: You know, I guess, can you put this into perspective for us what his death means to al Qaeda? We keep hearing, al Qaeda has been massively weakened.

With Osama Bin Laden's death, we heard that al Qaeda was just about to become a thing of the past, and now this guy has been killed and we're saying, this is a major blow to al Qaeda.

GOHEL: It's an torrent step, but it's not the end of terrorism. Bin Laden's elimination and now Anwar Al-Awlaki weakens the global terror movement, but we also have to keep in mind that it's not just about one al Qaeda franchise or the al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.

There are a number of groups throughout the world that have their own leadership, financing, cell structure, they may have similar ideology, but they also operate independently. So the U.S. has to continue its sustained effort in dismantling the terrorist infrastructure whether it's in Pakistan or in Yemen.

It's important to keep that momentum because there are new individuals that will emerge on the scene. Anwar Al-Awlaki is no longer around, but there are other ideologues that are still playing an important role in indoctrinating individuals. There are other terrorists that are skilled bomb makers that are planning and plotting mass casualty attacks.

ROMANS: He was a valuable recruiting tool and that's what, you know, Fran Townsend, our national security contributor was telling us his big draw was the fact that he was American and that he was such a good communicator, and such a good recruiting tool.

But you make the point of the bomb makers. There are still operational people doing other things that are their strengths within the organization, and the small affiliate organizations around the region. So what needs to be done now do you think to really hobble this network and this network of networks?

GOHEL: Well, one tactic that the U.S. has implemented successfully are the drone strikes. They are confining al Qaeda's operation space in Pakistan, boxing them in, and eliminating the trainers who are basically preparing people for terrorist attack.

Equally those drones are now being used in Yemen with similar success. Keep in mind, with Anwar Al-Awlaki that unlike Bin Laden or Al Zawahiri, the new leader of al Qaeda. Anwar Al-Awlaki didn't need subtitles to indoctrinate.

He spoke English. He understood how to impact on the Muslim Diaspora in the west and there are other individuals like this. So on the one hand, you have the actual, physical struggle against al Qaeda, the military campaign.

And then you also have the ideological campaign. You have to undermine the message. You have to weaken and erode the doctor and suppose it for its flaws. Otherwise, there will be individuals that will be inspired by similar radicals like Anwar Al-Awlaki.

His sermons are available to be downloading like Podcast. He understood the new media and how to exploit for his own agenda. So that is a campaign that still needs to be tackled.

COSTELLO: Sajjan Gohel, thank you for joining us this morning. We appreciate it.

ROMANS: Paula Newton reported he relished in the infamy of what he was doing, that he loved the ego of that, too. We're going to continue following the breaking developments on Al-Awlaki's death.

Ahead of AMERICAN MORNING, some of the states hit hardest by the economic crisis are also the same states President Obama needs to win re-election. So what does all that mean for 2012? We're going to talk about it. It's 39 minutes after the hour.

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ROMANS: Washington, D.C., it's mostly cloudy, 62 this morning. It should be partly cloudy later on today, about 77 degrees.

Welcome back to the program. Jobs and the economy, critical to President Obama's re-election hopes in 2012. Some of the states hit hardest by the downturn are the very same battleground states the president needs if he's going to be re-elected.

Joining me now is Ron Brownstein, CNN's senior political analyst. He's also the editorial director of "The National Journal." He has a new article out this morning called "The Geography of Pain." It paints a pretty grim portrait. Good morning.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning, Christine.

ROMANS: The U.S. during the president's first two years. Tell me a little bit about what we know. We know that places that are very important for the president are also places that have been hit hard by job decline, housing busts, and this feeling -- this big feeling that we're still in a recession?

BROWNSTEIN: Right. We use at "National Journal" new census data as well as Labor Department data and other federal data to kind of give a report card on the economy in the 50 states over the past two years.

And there are two big messages that come out of this. One is that this really has been a continent-sized storm. There really almost no state that has not affected by the great recession and its aftermath.

The median income since 2008 is down in every state except North Dakota, every state except three energy producers. Alaska, North Dakota and Texas has a decline in jobs, and poverty rate has increased in every state except Montana, which were maybe a statistical anomaly.

So there is pain is everywhere. But within that, the heaviest pain has been concentrated really in two clusters of states. The rust belt and the sun belt. The rust belt is the traditional battleground in American politics.

And the sun belt as emerging as the new concentration of swing states. So the places that have been hit hardest on most of these measures are also the states right at the tipping point. They are likely to decide the 2012 election.

ROMANS: So you call the geography of pain. Let's take a look at the geography. When you look at those 2008 swing states, states where Obama received between 45 percent and 55 percent of the vote.

Of the 14, six took big hits during the recession, Arizona, Georgia, North Carolina, Indiana, Florida and Ohio, also saw their median income drop more than 5 percent. Some close to 9 percent. Folks, that's unheard of.

That means people are feeling the pain every day. These are the same states that saw more than 100,000 jobs lost since 2008. If the president asks what Reagan asked, are you better off than you were four years ago? He'd get a resounding no from his battlegrounds.

BROWNSTEIN: Right. So you've -- basically you see the two kind of polls of pain, really are the states that the traditional manufacturing states that were losing ground anyway, Michigan, Ohio, Indiana in particular.

Illinois lost a lot of jobs. But also what had been the high fliers in the past decades. The states that were booming along with the real estate boom, like Florida, Arizona, Georgia. Arizona and Georgia states that he hopes to put into play in 2012.

Florida, North Carolina, Nevada, states that he did win in 2008 that moved into his camp and demographically are positive for him. So you've got this, you know, these two polls of states that are suffering the most.

Now, you know, this doesn't mean the president is not without argument in those states. In almost all of these places, the downturn began under President Bush, and I think people recognize that. But as you say, if you're asking voters in these states, are they better off than they were in 2008, you're not going to get many people saying yes.

ROMANS: Here's the way to look at it. Some people say the economy under the Obama administration, but the question is, would it be worse without his policies or better without his policies? And if it were a McCain presidency, would we be saying the very same thing?

BROWNSTEIN: Right. Absolutely. And electorally, I think there are two key questions. First, how do people -- what is the retrospective judgment they make on Obama's performance over the four years? And by and large, in polling that, we're moving towards a more negative judgment where a growing number are saying his policies made things worse rather than better. But that isn't the whole story.

The issue is also what is the perspective judgment they make about where to go from here? On that front, he is polling better. For example, in our congressional connection poll, if you pose his ideas on how to create jobs versus the Republican ideas how to create jobs going forward, generally, his proposals score better, even among groups that have been the most skeptical of him, like white voters without a college education. On one hand, this is a very sobering portrait, both economically and politically, for the president in that the states he needs the most have been hurt the most. But that is not the end of the story. There is a forward-looking argument that he can still contest and will contest in 2012.

ROMANS: Well he also -- the only thing he has control over, quote frankly, is the message at this point.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

ROMANS: And what kind of message they're sending? Reagan had the "Morning in America," in 1984. And last summer, we had -- remember, the summer of recovery?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, right.

ROMANS: The recovery summer? That really came from the vice president's office and this whole stimulus thing was going to be recovery summer. And it wasn't.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, right.

ROMANS: It didn't feel like a recovery. So they have to be careful about the messaging. Can they make a more optimistic message or will that seem tone deaf?

BROWNSTEIN: No, I think there's a limit. What they've wanted to do throughout the presidency is get to a position by 2012 where they could argue, yes, things are not perfect now, but we are moving in the right direction, and do you want to go back to the policies that got us into the ditch? The first half of that argument is becoming more and more problematic, as each month passes without significant recovery.

We note in the story, even if you look more narrowly at the past year, few states have seen an increase in median income. 44 states have seen an increase in jobs, but only about a half of dozen have seen a significant increase in jobs. So there's very little tail wind to make the argument that things are getting better. Maybe the economy will provide him more of that in the next year, and if that is -- but if that is not available, the argument essentially becomes the contrast argument, who do you trust going forward?

And it is a difficult, I think, without it -- that is a difficult argument for an incumbent president without at least some tail wind of economic progress in which he can say, I am moving us in the right direction. That's the challenge he faces. It's not that he can't win the argument, it's just it's easier to win if you can say we are turning the ship around.

ROMANS: Right. Ron Brownstein, CNN political analyst and editorial director, "national Journal." Great piece.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

ROMANS: "A Geography of Pain."

ROMANS: But sure to join us on October 18th, when the Republican candidates gather in Las Vegas to debate. That's Tuesday night, October 18th, live at 8:00 eastern here on CNN.

All right, morning headlines are next.

Also ahead, can you figure out today's "Roman's Numeral"? It's 58.2 percent. Here's a hint. If you have a job, whether it's waiting on tables or working on the farm, you're part of this number.

Forty-eight minutes after the hour.

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COSTELLO: It's is 10 minutes until the top of the hour. Here are your morning headlines.

Word of the biggest blow to al Qaeda since Osama bin Laden. Yemen saying Anwar al Awlaki, the leader of al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, is dead.

In the meantime, Yemen's president, Ali Abdullah Saleh, said he won't step down until his key rivals are out. Saleh tells the "Washington Post," for a political transition to work, all elements causing tension in Yemen need to be removed. The U.S. fears a political vacuum could strengthen Islamic militants.

We could be in for a lower opening on Wall Street. Right now, U.S. stock futures are trading lower as investors remain focused on Europe's debt crisis.

Americans are feeling, well, pretty grim about the economy these days. According to a brand-new CNN/ORC poll, just 10 percent of Americans say the economic conditions today are good. 90 percent say they stink.

Bank of America says it will begin charging customers five bucks a month to use their debt cards. The move coincides with the new government rule limiting how much banks could charge merchants on debit card transactions.

Two men charged in the beating of San Francisco Giants fan, Bryan Stow, will be in court today for a preliminary hearing. 29-year-old Louis Sanchez and 30-year-old Marvin Norwood have pled not guilty to the attack that left Stow in a coma.

The parade of prosecution witnesses will continue this morning at the Michael Jackson death trial. Paramedics are expected to tell the jury they asked Dr. Murray if Jackson was taking any drugs, and the doctor never told them about Propofol. Murray is charged with giving Jackson a lethal overdose.

A new hurricane gaining strength in the Atlantic Ocean. Tropical Storm Ophelia is now a hurricane and experts say it will most likely grow stronger. Ophelia is not expected to move towards the United States. Right now, it's sitting hundreds of miles southeast of Bermuda.

And diamonds are a girl's best friend, Marilyn Monroe sang it, and now you can own her wedding band, the one Joe DiMaggio gave her in 1954. It's going on the auction block. The diamond and platinum band is expected to fetch $500,000 when bidding opens this December. That's kind of sad in a way, isn't it?

That's the news you need to start your day. AMERICAN MORNING back after a break.

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ROMANS: Good morning, New York. It is sunny and 62 degrees. We're hearing partly cloudy, New Yorkers, 76 later.

All right, this morning's "Roman's Numeral." A number in the news, 58.2 percent. What in the world is that? This is the number I wanted to bring to you. It's called the Employment Population Ratio. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 58 percent of the working-age population is employed. Think of that. 58 percent. Sometimes you'll hear people say 9.8 percent unemployment, oh, well, that means 91 percent of the working people are employed. No, not true. This is how many people, the percentage of the population is employed. Way too low. This includes everyone age 16 and over who is not active-duty personnel and not in another type of institution or the like.

So, look at that, 58.2 percent, Carol. That is the employment. That's how many people, working-age people are employed. This shows you the political issues facing us. Look back 16 years, how that number has been coming down.

All right, top stories when we return, including new information on the breaking news we have all been following, the man believed to be al Qaeda's new number one, now dead. How they got him, next.

It's 54 minutes after the hour.

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