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American Morning
Amanda Knox Back Home in Seattle; Deadly Chopper Crash in NYC; Arizona Dust Storm; Michael Jackson Death Trial; Ambassador Walks Out of U.N. Meeting; Citi Hikes Fees on Checking Accounts; Christie Says "No" to White House Bid; Boat Leaves Scuba Divers Behind; "Occupy Wall Street"; Wall Street Protesters Be the Dawn of a Liberal Tea Party; Deadly Chopper Crash in NYC; Rick Perry's Unlikely Nemesis; Knox Back Home In Seattle; Thousands Protest In Greece; Democrat Wins West Virginia State House
Aired October 05, 2011 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Carol. I'm Christine Romans. Amanda Knox returns to Seattle after four long years in an Italian prison. You'll hear her emotional message to friends and supporters ahead.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: Terrifying moments in New York City. I'm Ali Velshi. A helicopter crashes into the East River killing a passenger. What went wrong? We're live at the scene just ahead.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And spending your money will now cost you even more money. I'm Carol Costello. Another big bank about to slap customers with another fee hike on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ROMANS: And good morning, everybody. It's Wednesday, October 5th. A very cool, crisp day fall here in the northeast. Welcome to AMERICAN MORNING, everyone.
VELSHI: Lots of news to tell you about today. But first, let's talk about Amanda Knox. She is back on American soil. What a homecoming it was. Knox touched down in Seattle shortly after 8:00 p.m. Eastern time last night.
Brief remarks to the media, she appeared overwhelmed and thanked everyone who supported her during her four-year ordeal in an Italian prison. Drew Griffin is there. He was there as well. He joins us live now from Seattle. Drew, what was it like?
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT CORRESPONDENT: You know, Ali, before she even spoke, before any of them spoke, you could just see the relief on their faces. First, the attorney did address the crowd, asked if there's any questions, no question for the attorney.
Mom and dad addressed the crowd? Any questions for them? No. Everybody just wanted to hear from her. Amanda Knox, and when she came to the podium, she said she had to remember, I have to speak in English now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANDA KNOX, MURDER CONVICTION OVERTURNED: I'm really overwhelmed right now.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): After spending four years in an Italian prison, Amanda Knox could hardly believe she was back home in Seattle.
KNOX: I was looking down from the airplane and it seemed like everything wasn't real.
GRIFFIN: Arriving Tuesday night, Knox was greeted by cheering supporters at the airport and surrounded by her family. She struggled to hold back tears as she addressed the crowd.
KNOX: What's important for me to say is just thank you to everyone who's believed in me, who has defended me, who has supported my family.
GRIFFIN: Her parents joined her in thanking all the supporters.
EDDA MELLAS, AMANDA KNOX'S MOTHER: It's because of the letters and the calls and just amazing support that we received from people all over the world, especially here in Seattle, that we've been able to endure and that we've been able to make sure Amanda had the support she need.
GRIFFIN: Convicted in 2009 of killing her roommate Meredith Kercher and sentenced to 26 years in prison, an appeals court in Italy overturned her conviction Monday setting her free. Her U.S. attorney applauded the ruling.
THEODORE SIMON, AMANDA KNOX'S ATTORNEY: This decision unmistakably announces to the world that Amanda Knox was wrongly convicted and that she was not, absolutely not responsible for the tragic loss of Meredith Kercher.
GRIFFIN: While celebrations are underway for Amanda Knox, for her family is the priority.
KNOW: I just want my family's the most important thing to me right now and I just want to go now and be with them. So thank you for being there for me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: And the big question now, Ali, is will she be able to be with her family in peace? The tabloid press, the paparazzi are all over this town waiting to get glimpses of her as she continues on now with her new normal life back here in Seattle.
VELSHI: Drew Griffin in Seattle. Thanks very much for that, Drew. Good morning.
COSTELLO: Now to that deadly chopper crash in New York City. A private sightseeing helicopter with the pilot and four passengers plunged into the East River. One of the passengers was killed. Three others injured. The NTSB is now investigating the crash.
CNN's Jason Carroll live for us on New York's east side. Do we know what caused the crash yet?
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's what the NTSB will be looking into. As you know, their investigation is well under way. Carol, they've already interviewed the pilot, Paul Dudley. They will be interviewing the pilot again today that is what we are told.
They have also retrieved that helicopter, that jet ranger. They are able to retrieve that helicopter yesterday evening. Let me give you a review of what happened. This is according to witnesses and rescuers who here at the scene.
Yesterday afternoon, about 3:22, the pilot, Paul Dudley, had just taken off when he said the trouble began. He radioed that he was having problems. He was unable to keep altitude. Witnesses say that the chopper spun around in the air, crashed into the East River.
It turned on its side, and then it sank, all of this happening with just a few moments. Three of the passengers and the pilot were able to be rescued, but one woman, Sonya Mara a 40-year-old from Sydney, Australia was trapped in the back seat. She did not survive.
I want to bring in two people, Carol, who were two of the first on the scene. This happened again yesterday. Let me bring in Frank McCarton and Wes Doskocil, they are both with the Office of Emergency Management.
So I'm going to start with you, Frank. You were here. Both of you were in the area. You heard what had happened. You got here at the scene. Tell me what you saw and what happened.
FRANK MCCARTON, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER OF OPERATIONS, NYC OEM: We arrived on the scene, and when we arrived, there was a helicopter with two men holding on to the skids. One of them was the pilot and the other a passenger up front that was in the aircraft. Wess and I grabbed a life vest with the crew onboard and Wess then was able to tie off --
CARROLL: Wes, why don't you tell me about that?
WESS DOSKOCIL, FIELD RESPONDER NYC OEM: I was able to run out to the helipad, and deploy some of the safety devices that are -- are at the heliport from the crew that was already. I was able deploy it out to the individual about 20 yards out and then I had to climb down to the pylons and lay down on my chest to try and bring them in and get underneath him so he wouldn't sink.
His jacket kept coming off. Myself, the deputy commissioner and a police officer were able to try and hoist him out of the water, bring him up and give him to EMS and then begin assisting NYPD as they arrived to the scene with rope rescues of the other individuals.
CARROLL: And obviously a few moments later, the diver showed up. They were able to pull out --
MCCARTON: Yes, one of the critical information we got from the passenger was the fact there were three other people onboard. We were able to give that information to the divers and be able to quickly give that information to the dispatchers that were coming in.
CARROLL: All right, I know you guys train for things like this, but when it happens I'm sure the adrenaline is pumping. But I'm sure those passengers are very grateful for what you were able to do.
MCCARTON: Yes, you know, our hearts go out. A life was lost yesterday, and our hearts of the city go out to them. We did our best to try to, you know, help them yesterday.
CARROLL: I want to thank both of you for doing that. Once again, the victim that they were both mentioning, Sonya Mara, she was here visiting with her partner who survived and also her mother and her stepfather who also survived.
They were all friends with the pilot, Paul Dudley, who, again, survived as well. I spoke to an NTSB representative this morning. She tells me that once again they're going to be able to interview the pilot, Paul Dudley, again this morning.
She also said that they're going to be reviewing the videotape and also at this point this morning, they're going to start taking a look at the helicopter itself trying to figure out exactly, Carol, what went wrong.
The NTSB is planning to have some sort of a briefing out here. That's going to begin at 11:00 a.m. Carol --
COSTELLO: Just curious, Jason. The woman who died, she was trapped inside the helicopter. Of course, the helicopter was upside- down. Where those other two people inside the helicopter as well and those guys you just talked to, did they manage to communicate to the divers who pulled those people out? CARROLL: They were. They were able to communicate to the divers that there were others who are also inside the helicopter. They were able to pull them out as well.
When they pulled them out, they were suffering from respiratory arrest. They are in serious condition at this point. Once again, quick thinking on the behalf of the first responders who were here at the scene, who were able to relay information to the divers about those that were still stuck inside.
COSTELLO: Jason Carroll, thank you very much. Jason Carroll reporting live from the east side of New York City.
ROMANS: A deadly dust storm triggering several multicar pileups north of Tucson, Arizona. Police say drivers had zero visibility on Interstate 10 when this storm kicked up just after 3:00 in the afternoon yesterday. At least 30 vehicles were involved in accidents. One person was killed and at least 14 others were injured. VELSHI: In the Michael Jackson death trial, the world is getting a very intimate look at the private life of Dr. Conrad Murray. Prosecutors calling three women to the stand yesterday trying to prove Jackson's personal physician was more concerned with his love life than with Michael Jackson.
Of those women, a Houston waitress testified she was on the phone with the cardiologist when he suddenly realized Jackson had stopped breathing.
COSTELLO: Tensions heating up over a Security Council resolution aimed at the Syrian regime for its bloody crackdown on protesters. Yesterday, China and Russia vetoed the resolution. After that veto, the U.S. Ambassador Susan Rice stood up and walked out of the Security Council chambers when Syria's ambassador began blasting U.S. policies in the Middle East.
ROMANS: All right, those bank fees keep on coming and, boy, you're mad about it. The latest, Citibank, it announced it will start charging customers with middle level accounts $20 a month if they don't have a combine $15,000 in all of their accounts.
Last night on "OUT FRONT" with Erin Burnett, the Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner hit back at those new bank fees.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIMOTHY GEITHNER, TREASURY SECRETARY: The banks are blaming the reforms in the government for everything including lots of problems that they themselves are responsible for causing. And the people are terribly -- most people are terribly angry and frustrated with that.
There's no surprises. There's no -- nothing strange about the fact that banks are resisting it, are pushing back. They're trying to weaken those reforms and we're going to push back harder, and in the end, we're going to prevail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: Yesterday, Senator Dick Durbin suggested people should switch banks if they keep getting nailed with fees.
VELSHI: Well, he spent months insisting that he wouldn't run, and Chris Christie was true to his word. The New Jersey governor ended all speculation yesterday announcing he will not seek the presidency in 2012.
COSTELLO: That is nothing!
VELSHI: That's right. The statement sent a chill through countless Republican supporters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: Now is not my time. I have a commitment to New Jersey that I simply will not abandon. (END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Now, Christie says he was tempted to run and did have the support of his wife, but he just couldn't see himself abandoning the state of New Jersey after just 20 months as governor.
And there were a lot of implications, which we'll be talking about through the course of the show including where his supporters are going to go.
COSTELLO: Yes, who gets his endorsement that's the big question?
VELSHI: The money that they were promising?
COSTELLO: Yes, just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING. They came up from a dive and said, where's the boat? Two divers stranded off the Florida coast after they say a charter boat ditched them. So how did they get back to shore?
ROMANS: Plus unions now join the Wall Street protesters. The movement based on what organizers call economic injustice. Is it now about to benefits and work rules? What exactly now is the message of the "Occupy Wall Street" Movement, and does it have new heft? It's 11 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING. They came up from a dive and their boat was gone. Two scuba divers lucky to be alive after they say a charter boat left them stranded at sea. I can't believe this. They forced to thread the water for two hours. They hung on to a small buoy until a nearby yatch spotted them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL KLINE, SCUBA DIVER: I wasn't going to give up. So, you know, we were - we managed to find a buoy. We're hanging on to that, so that way if somebody came to look for us, it would be - we would be in one spot.
The first thing you kind of think about is a famous movie about divers that got left in the ocean and it doesn't end very well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: The men were part of a group that went on a boat owned by RJ Diving Ventures off the Coast of Miami. The boat's captain told the "Miami Herald" he's happy everyone was OK. It's not clear how - how they lost track of the divers.
ROMANS: They're supposed to count heads.
VELSHI: Yes.
ROMANS: I mean - and whenever I'm diving I have to write my name on the - on the - VELSHI: Right. And to tell you're there and they check. You're not - you don't move off.
COSTELLO: There have been movies made about that.
ROMANS: You know, it's true. It's true. But that's, you know, very scary. Very scary.
Rob Marciano in the Extreme Weather Center. Good morning, Rob.
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, guys.
If you're diving of the East Coast today, things are a little bit more tranquil, although chilly. Temperatures are going to be cooling off and rain is moving out, finally, across the northeast. The stubborn weather pattern that has created the unsettled weather, the cool showery conditions really for two weeks, well, it's not so cool and showery now. So from Boston back to New York and Philly are looking good.
This one looked like though just north of Boston, Peabody up through Essex and Middlesex County, tremendous amount of flooding here. They got about - we showed you the radar yesterday. They've got about anywhere from three to five inches of rainfall in just a couple hours. So this is the end result. And this - a lot of this rainfall moved up in through parts of New Hampshire.
All right. We're seeing rain and some mountain snow out west. It's a very powerful storm system heading into not only the Pacific Northwest but California proper and higher elevation snow is happening here as jet stream reminisce of really of November or December here.
Winter storm warnings posted for the Sierras back in through parts of Nevada and the Wasatch of Utah could see a foot to a foot and a half of snow, above the 8,000 foot mark. So getting an early start to the winter season. You know, the Aspen is just peaking as far as turning that golden yellow color.
Fire threat kind (ph) of across parts of the midsection of the country. Temperatures way up there. Here's South Dakota yesterday, up and over 90; 86 degrees expected high temperature today in Minneapolis. So there's your Indian summer; 84 degrees in Atlanta and 71 degrees, dry in New York City.
Guys, back up to you.
ROMANS: Thank you, Rob.
All right. This morning the Wall Street protesters geared up for what they claim to be their biggest move yet. They're expected to march this afternoon. The group of protesters is growing to include community groups, teachers and now unions.
Our Susan Candiotti joins us now live. Susan, good morning.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Christine, at this hour, as you can see behind me, not surprisingly, all the protesters are asleep, under tarps and sleeping bags. They've set up mattresses here and they've got food lines set up for later. That much hasn't changed.
What is changing about today is that, yes, they have another march, but they're expecting far more people here before. Why? Because for the first time they're having some support, additional support from traditional unions who say they will be marching with them this particular day.
Still, this protest, largely against corporate greed, as they put it, is also still leaderless, and without any particular goals in mind. Nevertheless, they say that's the way they like it for now, as they continue to organize.
And one of their biggest supporters is Michael Moore, documentary maker. Here's how he sums up about what this protest is about today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL MOORE, FILMMAKER: I just said people have just had it. And what's so beautiful about this, is that this is - no one has organized this. There is no leader here. Everyone is a leader. Everyone is - everyone's who's a participant in this, this is real true grassroots democracy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CANDIOTTI: And the march today is, again, going to be near City Hall and then it will wind up back here in the financial district.
How many people will come? Well, it's not clear how many they will attract, but they are hoping for a lot more people than usual because of the large number of unions who are bringing people in to help them on this particular day.
Christine, an early morning hour, but one guy is probably going to do a lot more business today than usual. One of these food vendors, a lot of them line up here to help these people out throughout the day.
Christine, back to you.
ROMANS: There you go. Susan Candiotti.
I don't know, a little capitalism happening down there or the anti-capitalism. I don't know if anti-capitalism is one of -- part of their mission, but thank you so much, Susan Candiotti.
I will say that they are dedicated. I've seen dozen of protests in Wall Street over my years of covering it, but never one that's lasted this long. No one who's ever slept under the tarp.
VELSHI: Absolute dedication. No question of this dedication. And also is somewhat unfocused and (INAUDIBLE). But hopefully maybe they're getting some focus and getting some help from other people. COSTELLO: And that's exactly the topic of our "Talkback" today, so let's get into it.
Now is your chance to talk about on one of the big stories of the day. The question for you this morning, could "Occupy Wall Street" be the dawn of a liberal Tea Party?
Ever since the dawn of the Tea Party, liberal activists have yearned for a revolution of their own. For example, you saw him, Michael Moore, who's hungry for a mass movement. How better to get that than railing against Wall Street.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOORE: This is the end result of these bankers overplaying their hand. They were already filthy rich, but filthy rich wasn't enough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Moore is lending his cred - his celebrity, rather, to the movement, and paying to help protesters expand the use of social media with the help of Twitter and Facebook, the movement has spread to other cities. Hundreds have been arrested here in New York City.
Though we see them dressed like zombies and often with confusing messages, they're also attracting some powerful allies besides Michael Moore, including a half dozen unions who will march on New York City Hall today.
So when you combine clout, money and anger with the powers that be, sort of kind of sounds like the start of something, although protesters don't see themselves as political animals.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TYLER COMBELIC, OCCUPY WALL STREET: We don't want to be, you know, a left political group. We don't want to be a political group at all. We want to be, you know, a group that calls for activism.
Ideally, you know, if this continues to grow, if more people get involved, suddenly people will have the same power that, you know, lobbyists have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Heads up, Wall Street. Even FOXNews.com says this could be more than just another loony protest movement from the left.
So the "Talk Back" question today - could "Occupy Wall Street" be the dawn of a new Tea Party? Facebook.com/AmericanMorning, Facebook.com/AmericanMorning. I'll read your comments later this hour.
VELSHI: All right. Coming up on AMERICAN MORNING, he's been a real thorn in the side of Rick Perry. Meet this Milwaukee man who spent four years tangling with the Texas governor trying to get him to hand over his office e-mails. It's a very, very interesting story. We'll bring it to you on the other side of the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Twenty-five minutes after the hour. Welcome back. "Minding Your Business."
Right now, U.S. stock futures are trading higher ahead of the opening bell, and nearly a 400-point swing on Wall Street helped bring the S&P back from the brink of entering a bear market yesterday. The rally fuelled in part by Europe's new efforts to prevent a global banking crisis, but a global recession can't be ruled out next year. That's the new warning from the International Monetary Fund. The group is also urging Europe this morning to boost stimulus spending.
In another example of the tough financial conditions in Europe, Italy was downgraded by the credit rating agency Moody's. But despite the drop in the rating, Moody's reported that Italy's risk of default remains remote.
New York State and the - New York City and the State Attorney General are suing the New York Mellon - are suing Bank of New York Mellon for fraud. They claim the bank illegally acquired nearly $2s billion from the city's police, fire and teachers' pension funds by misrepresenting foreign currency transaction rates over the course of a decade.
Victims of Bernie Madoff are getting their first checks today. The man in charge of recovering the funds says an estimated $312 million will be distributed to investors. That represents less than five cents on the dollar, but Irving Piccard says more money will eventually be returned.
Also, Apple unveiling the new iPhone 4S. It looks exactly like the current iPhone, but it's faster. It has a new feature that allows users to ask the phone questions and get answers. The iPhone 4S goes on sale in nine days at Sprint, Verizon and At&T stores.
AMERICAN MORNING will be back right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING. Good morning, everyone.
It's 30 minutes past the hour. Time for your top stories.
Amanda Knox back home in Seattle after spending four years in an Italian prison. Her plane touched down last night shortly after 8:00 p.m. Eastern, 30 hours after a jury overturned her murder conviction. Knox appeared overwhelmed. Tearfully, she thanked everyone who supported her family.
COSTELLO: You're now looking at live pictures as thousands protest in Greece. It's part of a 24-hour strike against a new wave of salary and pension cuts, tax hikes and layoffs. The government says the cuts are needed to avoid bankruptcy.
VELSHI: And a disaster in New York City. A sightseeing helicopter plunging into New York's East River, killing a tourist and injuring three others, one seriously. Witnesses say the chopper appeared to be having mechanical problems just before the crash. The NTSB is now investigating.
COSTELLO: And joining us now from Los Angeles, Bob Tur, an aviation expert and himself a helicopter pilot, well-known for his "Eyes in the Sky" reports.
Welcome. Thank you for being with us this morning.
BOB TUR, AVIATION EXPERT: Good morning.
COSTELLO: As we're trying to make sense why this helicopter went down, we're hearing that the helicopter spun around as it crashed. Does that sound to you like a specific type of mechanical problem?
TUR: Indeed it does. It sounds like a loss of tail rotor effectiveness or a loss of the tail rotor, the anti-torque rotor, which would cause the aircraft to spin around, as been described by witnesses.
COSTELLO: So, if that certain type of mechanical accident occurred, is there anything the pilot could have done?
TUR: Yes, that aircraft could have been landed safely and this whole disaster could have been avoided.
COSTELLO: We understand that the person who died in this crash was trapped inside the cabin of the helicopter. Of course, the helicopter landed in the water upside-down. Is there any way to get out of a helicopter as it does that? I mean, are there safety precautions put into place?
TUR: Yes. If I can describe what the training that we go through, military training or civilian training, intense training. You go over all of these emergency procedures.
For example, losing your tail rotor and spinning around, there is an easy fix for that, that's using collective cyclic controls that control the flight surfaces of the aircraft. You move -- you use these controls to gain air speed, at about 50, 60 knots, you offload the tail rotor, the fin in the back offloads the tail rotor, you're able to fly straight and level, you fly to a airport where there's a large, you know, field or pavement area, and you slow down.
At about five feet, you roll off the power. You lose the torque. You stop spinning and you do a hovering auto. It's a simple procedure.
So, that is number one. That's the number one mistake that was made.
Number two, we see the pilot hanging on the skids screaming out to people onshore. There's three people trapped inside. Well, he's there. He's familiar with that aircraft. You can get down, unlatch that door and unlatch seat belts.
So, that's another error. The pilot lost his head.
So what we're really talking about is a lack of proper intense training, and that's something that pilots need to do on a regular basis. It's expensive, but as you can see in this particular incident, it's necessary.
COSTELLO: Of course, the NTSB is still investigating this crash. We don't exactly know what made that helicopter go down. So, this is on conjecture at this point, but we hear you.
You know this pilot, don't you? He was an experienced guy?
TUR: I've met him. He's been around for a long time flying tours. He's been doing it, I think, as I -- best I know, since 19 -- or since 2007, 2008. So he has a lot of experience, a lot of experience flying in the New York area.
However, it's the emergency training that's really required. This was a terrible accident, and it looks like it's mechanical in nature. How, the training that we get really works through these emergency procedures. It's really -- you've got to be on top of your game.
The fact that the aircraft didn't have floats is another factor. Had it had floats, the aircraft could have stayed above water, allowing emergency workers to get to the victims sooner.
COSTELLO: What do you mean by "floats"?
TUR: Well, aircraft that fly over the water, generally, you want to have emergency floatation devices. What I'm talking about on the skids, there are these tubes, which are -- you can't really tell that they're floats, but when the pilot hits an emergency trigger, these huge floats pop out allowing the aircraft to stay upright on top of the surface of the water. Just like big balloons.
COSTELLO: Ah. And you didn't se those. I mean, the helicopter, of course --
TUR: They weren't there.
COSTELLO: Oh, they weren't there. Simply weren't there.
TUR: They weren't there. No.
COSTELLO: Uh!
TUR: And what you want to do is go back and look at the videotape that you have, and check the two bladed system, the tail rotor in the back and check to see if the blades are still there. I know at least one was there. I couldn't tell from the video.
Bt there are signs and symptoms, you know, that you can look at and get a good handle about what happened.
COSTELLO: Right.
TUR: But, really, we're talking about a loss of control of the aircraft by the pilot. That's what happened here. That's -- 10,000 hours of flying, emergency procedures, doing a number of rescues, that's what I see.
COSTELLO: Bob Tur, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it.
TUR: Anytime.
VELSHI: All right. Someone is watching Rick Perry very carefully these days and it's not Mitt Romney. John Washburn is a private citizen who's been tangling with the Texas governor for the better part of four years. He thinks that Rick Perry is trying to keep too many secrets.
This is a very interesting story, and our Ed Lavandera joins us live from Atlanta with the story -- Ed.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Ali.
Well, this is actually one of the more interesting political dramas that has followed Governor Rick Perry in Texas over the last few years. One man's quest to open up the governor's e-mails.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA (voice-over): To find the man whose become an unlikely thorn in the side of Rick Perry, drive more than 1,200 miles from the Texas governor's mansion to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and meet John Washburn.
Washburn is a computer programmer, open records advocate, self- described Ron Paul Republican, and the lead character in a battle over forcing Rick Perry to save thousands of government e-mails.
JOHN WASHBURN, OPEN RECORDS ADVOCATE: He doesn't like the idea of people looking over his shoulder, seeing what he's doing, where he's going. But the whole idea of American government is you don't trust people of power, you watch them.
LAVANDERA: Four years ago, Washburn learned Rick Perry staff destroys many of his e-mails after seven days. Open records advocates say this is an unusually short time. So from his home computer, Washburn created a program that sent automated open records requests to the governor's office every four days.
WASHBURN: This is the --
LAVANDERA (on camera): All the back and forth it took just to get those e-mails.
WASHBURN: Yes.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): But it was the price that Perry's office charged that stunned Washburn.
WASHBURN: Five hundred sixty-eight dollars for four days of e- mails.
LAVANDERA (on camera): What did you think?
WASHBURN: I laughed. I did. I laughed out loud the first time I saw it.
LAVANDERA: Did you ever come across a response like this?
WASHBURN: No. Certainly not for this kind of money.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): But it wouldn't be the first time Governor Perry's office would shock John Washburn. As words spread through Texas of his fight with the governor's office, Rick Perry defended his e-mail destruction policy like in this memorable interview with the "Texas Tribune" Web site.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not have them stay around longer, for the purpose of records?
GOV. RICK PERRY (R), TEXAS: How long?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You tell me.
PERRY: But I'm asking you. I already say it, it's seven days.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor, do I get to pick? How about a month?
PERRY: No, you don't get to pick.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it ought to be 30 days.
PERRY: OK, I don't.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that's the end of the conversation?
LAVANDERA: Governor Perry went on to say he didn't want state employees wasting time organizing open records requests for people going on fishing escapades.
WASHBURN: It is the most obstruction, by far. No one in his league in that regard.
LAVANDERA: After Perry announced he was running for president, John Washburn fired up the automated open records request again. The governor's office just sent Washburn the latest bill.
(on camera): And the bill for that for another four days with the e-mails is now how much?
WASHBURN: Twenty-three hundred and four dollars.
LAVANDERA: Twenty-three hundred dollars for four days of e- mails?
WASHBURN: Correct.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): If he ever wanted to see them all, it will add up to almost $210,000 for a full year of e-mails. A hefty price tag, but John Washburn says it's the principle of his battle that's priceless.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA: Now, Ali, what's interesting is, the governor's office says, look, they're following the rules that have been in place and they're following the rules that are currently in place in Texas when it comes to retaining these e-mail records.
And one of the things the governor's office has to do is either print off the e-mails that need to be saved, that fall under open records situations. And they say those e-mails are printed off and saved accordingly. Of course, John Washburn and many other open record advocates simply do not believe this is going on. Really no way to prove this unless someone's able to pony up that money. John Washburn doesn't have the money to keep paying for the open records request. So, we'll se how it pans out.
VELSHI: Is he likely to pay for them? And is there something that he believes that he's going to find if somebody were to pay for those records?
LAVANDERA: You know, it's interesting, we don't know what's there or what could be there. So, it's not like he's saying that there's a smoking gun hidden in these e-mails.
VELSHI: Right.
LAVANDERA: But he's done I think almost 20 of these open record requests. But he did this back in 2007, there was a story emerging from the e-mails that they got about state cuts in funding for foster care homes and they'd found in these e-mails, there were stories of state employees talking about foster care children sleeping in state offices. So, a story that was told simply because of the e-mails that he requested.
VELSHI: Ed, very interesting story. Thanks for joining us with it.
LAVANDERA: You got it.
ROMANS: Wow.
All right. Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING: restoring the greatness of America. What will it take? Do we need a new approach when it comes to business in government? We'll talk about that.
Also, those protests in Greece and how dangerous perhaps Europe's problems or, the U.S.
It's 40 minutes after the hour.
COSTELLO: And we are monitoring, as Christine said, the situation in Greece. We'll have live pictures of the protests against salary cuts, and tax hikes and layoffs.
Forty minutes past. We'll be back.
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ROMANS: Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING.
You're looking at live pictures right now of thousands of people protesting on the streets of Greece. It's part of a 24-hour strike against a new wave of salary and pension cuts, tax hikes, layoffs. The government says the cuts are needed to avoid bankruptcy.
Now, the U.S., of course, is no Greece. But you know what? We're talking about public sector belt-tightening as well and things have gotten tough for the average American. Unemployment is high, home prices are down, 401(k)s are getting crushed and our government is struggling to respond to all of these challenges.
Joining me now is Jeffrey Sachs. He has a new book out on how to turn the country around. It's called "The Price of Civilization: Reawakening American Virtue and Prosperity."
Welcome to the program. Good morning.
JEFFREY SACHS, AUTHOR, "THE PRICE OF CIVILIZATION: Thanks so much. Good to be with you.
ROMANS: Oh, we certainly want to reawaken prosperity. That's the whole point. And what everyone is working for with very different ideas on how to do it.
You talk about civic virtue and the importance of restoring civic virtue and that the people, the elites, need to demonstrate this.
Does that mean that maybe very rich people need to pay more taxes? Maybe companies shouldn't be, you know, charging me to use my own money, the banks, for example? What are the things they need to do?
SACHS: The people at the very top have run away with the prize in this country, when the world economy globalized over the last 30 years, those who have a lot of capital were able to make good on that, and those who were competing against foreign competition started to suffer. But then our government got taken over more and more by powerful lobbies, tax cuts were cut for the top, and social services cut at the bottom. And the income and wealth gap rose dramatically in this country.
That's not civic virtue when the people at the top say we want more, more, more. When you have a political party, unfortunately, the Republicans, whose only motto these days seems to be give even more benefits to the corporations and to the rich, and the Democrats, they're pretty much divided.
They're going along with it, because the rich also pay their campaign contributions. So, I don't see this as a very virtuous situation right now, and what's also alarming is, how much criminality there has been among our leading companies.
ROMANS: Criminality?
SACHS: Criminality. The banks breaking financial laws. The banks now paying fines to the Securities and Exchange Commission. People going to jail for insider trading. What happened on Wall Street over the last ten years was not just bad behavior. It was illegal behavior as well. That's why people are occupying Wall Street also. Another movement that's starting to gain attention all over this country.
ROMANS: I want to talk a little bit about a movement they were watching right now in the streets of Greece. I mean, you can see these live pictures this morning, and what is happening in Europe right now and how dangerous? And I use the word dangerous on purpose. How dangerous are Europe's problems for the United States, for the American banking system, and for the American economy?
SACHS: We have a crisis on both sides of the Atlantic. This is almost unprecedented since the great depression. That the U.S. is in crisis and Western Europe is in crisis. In Europe, there's a big divide. In the north of Europe, places like Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Germany, things are pretty good. In the south of Europe, especially Greece, Italy, Portugal, Spain, the crisis is very tough.
And so, there's a big division within Europe, and the question for Europe is, can they get together and actually cooperate enough to get out of the crisis? It's the same issue we face in this country. Can the rich and those who are struggling get together and cooperate finally rather than the rich trying to run away with everything and the poor just left holding the bag for all this bad behavior On Wall Street?
ROMANS: Let me give you a couple of warnings, if you will. The executive director of the IMF said that recession in 2012 can't be ruled out. Ben Bernanke, the chairman of the Federal Reserve says that the economy is close to faltering, and he, yesterday, he told the joint economic committee, Ben Bernanke did, you know, he's concerned about sluggish jobs growth.
It's just not moving forward well enough. Are we at risk of a double-dip recession in the United States? Another recession in the United States and maybe around the world?
SACHS: We are at risk right now, and unfortunately, the plans of this administration have been short-term stimulus plans, give another jolt to the economy, not longer term reform.
ROMANS: So, you're critical of all the leadership? You're critical of the Republicans, but you're also critical of this White House?
SACHS: Basically, the political system got taken over by corporate lobbies. The rich are benefiting. Everybody else is suffering and neither party is giving a proper long-term answer. They don't want to go against their campaign contributors. That's the biggest problem.
ROMANS: Wasn't everybody in on it, though? As the housing market was booming, as stock markets are booming, I'm talking about this is a 25-year in the making kind of --
SACHS: Great point.
ROMANS: Unholy alliance and everyone was making money, but at its core, the numbers were showing that it was harder to stay, stand still, if you were middle class or below?
SACHS: Exactly. Where were the grow notes in all of this? We know that the Federal Reserve was pumping in liquidity as Wall Street was going for that subprime housing bubble, and the regulators weren't watching. The bankers were making enormous amounts of money, of course, taking home tens of billions of dollars in bonuses every year, not just salaries, but bonuses.
And people felt that their housing prices were going up so that their net worth was getting bigger. Of course, that was all the bubble, the illusion, but I really do blame those at the top most, because a lot of them knew what was going on. They were gaming the system. They wanted those quick profits, and they walked away, to this point still.
ROMANS: Right.
SACHS: With huge wealth and huge income, and we have to get together as a society again with sacrifices at the top finally to help make good for everybody. If we don't do that, we're just pulling ourselves apart.
ROMANS: Well, there could be sacrifices for everyone. You're seeing on the streets of Greece, and they certainly don't like it. You hope you don't see that there, but it's a good point about occupy Wall Street that it's showing that displeasure in the street.
Jeff Sachs, the book is called "The Price of Civilization." Thank you so much.
SACHS: Pleasure to be with you. Thank you.
ROMANS: Nice to see you again.
All right. It's 49 minutes past the hour. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Fifty-one minutes after the hour. Here is what you need to know to start your day.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI (voice-over): Amanda Knox is back home in Seattle 30 hours after a jury in Italy overturned her murder. Knox touched down in her hometown, tearfully, thanking friends and supporters for believing in her.
Right now in Greece, thousands protesting a new wave of salary and pension cuts, tax hikes, and layoffs. Live pictures right here. The government says cuts are needed to avoid bankruptcy.
Eighteen people have now died from eating cantaloupe contaminated with listeria. The CDC reports at least 100 listeria cases in 20 states. Officials expect the number of cases to grow.
Another round of evacuations in Bastrop, Texas this morning. A wildfire there has already burned 1,000 acres. Comes just a month after another fire destroyed 1,500 homes.
West Virginia's acting governor is acting no more. Democrat, Earl Ray Tomblin, won a full term to replace former governor, now senator, Joe Manchin. He narrowly beat Republican businessman, Bill Maloney, in yesterday's special election.
And Washington National Cathedral will reopen in five weeks. It's been closed since it was damaged by an earthquake in early August. Officials say the total restoration will take years and will cost in the tens of millions of dollars.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI (on-camera): That is the news you need to start your day. AMERICAN MORNING is back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Just about seven minutes until the top of the hour.
We ask you to "Talk Back" on one of the big stories of the day. The question for you this morning, could occupy Wall Street be the dawn of a new liberal Tea Party?
This from Dylan, "The occupation of Wall Street is not the dawn of a liberal Tea Party, it's the dawn of America, finally waking up and smelling what its elected officials on both sides are shoveling."
This from Amy, "Yes, if they believed in the constitution, but those people just don't want to go back to work, and I bet it won't be long before they throw trash everywhere and start to destroy the place. A riot is pending." That's a dark view of the Wall Street protests.
(LAUGHTER)
COSTELLO: I hope a riot doesn't break out, Amy.
This from Aaron, "I'd like to think it's beyond the liberal conservative name tags. It's the people -- it's people from all walks of life protesting the plutocracy that has become our government. I wish it was the dawn of a labor party or a people's party.'
And this from Autumn, "no, the left is far too unorganized and not even sure what they're fighting for. Maybe if they had a cool name or something like the pot party."
ROMANS: Oh!
VELSHI: That would give up legitimacy.
(LAUGHTER)
COSTELLO: Had to throw in a funny --
VELSHI: I do like the concept of a cool name.
COSTELLO: Yes.
VELSHI: You know, tea party was effective.
COSTELLO: Occupy Wall Street isn't cool? No?
VELSHI: It's not. And it takes too much time on a Twitter hash tag.
ROMANS: It's very -- I mean, we just have Jeff Sachs on, for example, and already people are tweeting me saying why is he blaming the rich? Why is he blaming the rich? It's not just about blaming the rich.
VELSHI: Right.
ROMANS: I mean, it's a very interesting polarization happening right now about what happened and what wrong in America.
VELSHI: And who's to blame for it.
ROMANS: And who's to blame for it, and it comes really along very, I would say, clear ideological lines.
COSTELLO: We're in the middle of class warfare.
ROMANS: Right.
COSTELLO: I mean, to me, there's no doubt about that. So, keep the comments coming. Facebook.com/americanmorning. We'll read more later on the show.
VELSHI: All right. Coming up next, Amanda Knox back on American soil shedding tears of joy. More on what her first full day back in the U.S. is going to be like as a free woman. It's 55 minutes after the hour.
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